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The Mystery of Acupuncture Partly Explained In Rat Study
hackingbear writes: A biological mechanism explaining part of the mystery of acupuncture has been pinpointed by scientists studying rats. The research showed that applying electroacupuncture to an especially powerful acupuncture point known as stomach meridian point 36 (St36) affected a complex interaction between hormones known as the hypothalamus pituitary adrenal (HPA) axis. In stressed rats exposed to unpleasant cold stimulation, HPA activity was reduced (abstract). The findings provide the strongest evidence yet that the ancient Chinese therapy has more than a placebo effect when used to treat chronic stress, it is claimed. "Some antidepressants and anti-anxiety drugs exert their therapeutic effects on these same mechanisms," said lead investigator Dr Ladan Eshkevari, from Georgetown University medical center in Washington DC.
The research showed that applying electroacupuncture
The Chinese did not have electricity nor does anyone claiming to be an acupuncturist use electricity.
Try again.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Electroacupuncture is not the same thing as Ancient Chinese Acupuncture, unless the ancient Chinese invented batteries and didn't tell us.
Press a needle into your hard drive at the 0x542d4123 address and apply a small electric current. This should protect you from all unwanted internet content.
The main mystery is how the placebo effect is so damn powerful, tbh. Another question is whether acupuncture has a better effect than placebo, and if not, is it not worthwhile for the placebo effect alone? This is a treatment for stress/pain relief, which is pretty fucking welcome to anyone who suffers either chronically.
N.B. The placebo effect still works if you know you're taking a placebo.
"Pinpointed". Nice.
you mean they actually figured out how SSRIs fuck the body up aside the claimed (and still not proven) therapeutic effects?
I could tell you. HPA misalignment is just the beginning.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
There is "alternative medicine" and then there's alternative medicine.
For example, someone using homeopathy is misguided, uninformed, and/or an idiot. Any effect they are getting is purely placebo, or possibly from increased hydration. Someone using acupuncture may actually be getting some effect out of it. There is weak scientific evidence that it does something, just not much, and we're not sure how or what yet.
Someone using a chiropractor is getting actual short-term pain relief (not treatment) at the risk of permanent injury or death. Someone going to a physical therapist who does stretches/exercises, conversely, is getting long-term pain relief and likely actual treatment.
Someone using only alternative medicine without also using modern medicine is not going to cure anything. See Steve Jobs.
Emotions and stress have a tremendous effect on how the body functions.
I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason acupuncture is such a good placebo is because a) by virtue of how it's done, it's a great stress reliever which causes real results, and b) you feel like you've "endured" something (even if it's pleasant) rather than quickly take a pill so it has to be more effective.
Meditation, mindfulness, yoga, etc, all have proven effects as well. I would imagine acupuncture falls into the same category, even if a bit more indirectly.
I thought it was all about controlling the "flow of energy" through the "Body's meridians"...
I ask myself that every time I drive past the Apple Store.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Someone using a chiropractor is getting actual short-term pain relief (not treatment) at the risk of permanent injury or death.
Have you compared insurance rates for chiropractors to medical doctors? Those numbers would be a reliable indicator of the relative risk of chiropractic treatment.
Not really, because unlike real medicine, chiropractic has no standard of care from which one can expect or anticipate a particular outcome nor judge the performance of the practitioner. Anything that goes right or wrong in the course of "treatment" can be handwaved away with nonsense explanations about misalignments, energies, chi or whatever other subjective crap absolves the chiropractor of any responsibility to reality, while simultaneously allowing him to sell snake oil vitamins and smoothie mixes and to schedule "tune up" and "adjustment" appointments for as long as the patient still has money in his wallet and faith in the charlatanism.
In other news just in, a scientific basis for for homeopathy has been discovered, ........... ... ..
No, not really, its still a load of bollocks......
I hate rubbish research and I hate rubbish research on slashdot.
Stick needles in anyone and you affect HPA axis. Doh!
Blast adrenal glands with electricity and you affect HPA axis. Another no brainer.
The real test, if these woo believers wanted to test the magic scientific meridian whacko superpoint stomach meridian point 36 (St36) [help me stop laughing], is to do the magic at various points on the poor bloody rats and see what happens (including the little itty bitty points close to the magic St36).
I sincerely hope no taxpayer money went into this particular egregious piece of flam. Check out this for NZ subsidy of this religion:
https://kmccready.wordpress.co...
work in progress
How much scientific evidence there is to support this... There are better ways to relax than sticking me full of needles... As a matter of fact, I cannot think of anything that would raise my stress level more...
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
The question of whether acupuncture (in any of its hundred or thousands of forms) is more effective than control (a.k.a. "placebo effect") has been answered conclusively -- it is not. Acupuncture is indistinguishable from sham acupuncture in numerous, well controlled studies. It is the theatre, not the treatment that has any effect; and those effects are only measurable in the short-term against subjective outcomes. In other words, it's risky (infection, organ/vessel piercing), has no more benefit than just talking to someone or sitting quietly for a half hour, and does not improve health in any known objective measure.
The placebo effect "works" for a very narrow definition of "works", which is far less than what practitioners of these worthless treatments claim.
Exxxzzzaaaaaccccttttllllyyyy!!! A proper test on "St-36" would include stabbing of nearby non-"St-36" points. Randomly select which stab to electrify. Vary over time. Cross-correlate the measured response series to each of the stabs' selection series. Repeat until p=.05. The experiment may have to be prematurely terminated if the supply of rat chow (or grant money) is extinguished.
Oh, I'm sorry sir, I thought you were referring to me, Mr. Wensleydale.
So, the demand is show proof or go home. Proof shown and people fall all over themselves to ignore it. Still wonder why nobody bothers to look for proof?
This isn't even the first evidence found.
LOL. Massage in the hands of conmen and conwomen and congenderneutral can injure, kill, debilitate.
https://kmccready.wordpress.co...
work in progress
Effectiveness, appropriate care, and so on, is another topic that deserves discussion. ... and I don't have the time at the moment. Maybe later though.
You were right until you got to the end. The placebo effect works incredibly well, which is why the only medical study that's credible at all is a placebo controlled, double blind one. Placebos can shrink tumours and cure real, physically verifiable diseases. Billions aren't spent recruiting twice the number of subjects so you can administer placebos because people somehow haven't figured out how to use objective outcome measures.
Acupuncturists don't work for free. You can't put surgery in a pill either, yet surgeons are a pretty entrenched part of "western medicine."
You can't put an FDA stamp on acupuncture because it hasn't shown efficacy in the required two large multi centre randomized placebo controlled double blind clinical trials. If it did, you certainly could get FDA approval for the equipment and acceptance of the technique as a standard of care for the approved disorder.
The study, reported in the journal Endocrinology, compared stressed rats given electroacupuncture, [with?] a sham therapy in which needles were not inserted in a meridian point, or no treatment. A fourth group of rats were not exposed to stress and did not receive acupuncture.
Except that this study seems to have accounted for that. There's a specific mention of one group having sham therapy where needles were inserted into the rats, but NOT into the meridian points described. At least that's what I understand from the quoted statement there (there seems to be a minor grammatical error there and the word [with] or [to] may be missing, hence the paraphrasing).
Global warming and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking number of pirates - Gospel of the FSM
Yeah 1 point seem to have an effect. But is it 1) the effect predicted by chinese acupuncture and 2) all other point do pretty much nothing from previous study and deliver effect with shame acupuncture (giving the impression of needle going in but not penetrating). Basically broken clock.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Again, I'm not, for now, addressing effectiveness of treatment. That is a complicated issue and deserves a response, and well, a lot more research no doubt. My question is: if there is a high risk of permanent injury or death from chiropractic, WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?
Actually, the cost of the placebo you are taking can make a difference on how well it works. There are plenty of links on a simple Google search, but here is one.
I also remember seeing two or three differently colored bottles of drugs that had different prices, but were all placebo. Doctors can prescribe these if they feel it would help.
-- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
Citation needed.
Or did you do this study yourself? Where is it published?
I never heard of him using it. What I did hear was that he did some stupid vegetarian diet. I wouldn't use acuptuncture to treat cancer.
The WHO considers the use of acupuncture is acceptable in the treatment and management of pain. Everything else is basically quackery.
It's the back surgery that has the trail of crippled bodies and lack of evidence behind it.
Anyway, I can type all day on this, but the gist is: for any condition there is a continuum of care and intervention. In any of the medical/therapeutic professions there are good and bad practitioners, and lots in between. "Your mileage may vary."
They do work in some cases. My personal theory is that some people are depressed for biological reasons, and the drugs can work there, and other people are depressed for other reasons, and the drugs are unlikely to have any more effect than a placebo. Since the easiest thing a clinic can do is write a prescription for antidepressants, as opposed to something expensive like talk therapy or cognitive therapy, antidepressants get prescribed in a lot of cases they won't do any good.
Depression is a syndrome, a collection of patient-reported symptoms. It is almost certainly a collection of different problems of varying origin with similar symptoms. I've never seen any hint of a biological test for any possible cause. A doctor once told me that serotonin levels by themselves didn't seem related to depression, but that raising serotonin levels in depressed people often helps them.
What doctors and researchers can do is use drugs and observe the biological results, and understand the mechanisms. If these relieve depression (more than placebo level) in a significant number of patients (not necessarily a majority), it appears that that's a mechanism to alleviate depression. It would be really, really nice to know more.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
C'mon, I'd bet that homeopathic remedies can cure dehydration.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Even if we were to ignore the electricity aspect, accupuncture ITSELF is not even ancient. http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4...