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Finnish Police: If You See Uber Car, Call 911

emakinen writes: The police in Helsinki, Finland has announced in a tweet that if you see someone driving Uber car, you should call 911 (or actually, 112 in Finland). In an article in the local newspaper they have explained that there is an ongoing investigation to find out whether or not Uber is legal in Finland and they want to interrogate Uber drivers. Normally you should have a permit to drive a taxi in Finland.

50 of 330 comments (clear)

  1. Wow Finland! by I'm+just+joshin · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm glad Finland has no other problems for the police to worry about.

    1. Re:Wow Finland! by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm glad Finland has no other problems for the police to worry about.

      Yeah, I don't know whether I want to move there because they clearly have no crime nor emergencies to deal with, or make sure to never visit there because they treat the desire to interview someone like a police emergency.

      --
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    2. Re:Wow Finland! by westlake · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm glad Finland has no other problems for the police to worry about.

      Law enforcement multi-tasks --- a concept the geek seems to find unusually hard to grasp.

    3. Re:Wow Finland! by AqD · · Score: 2

      People should also start running naked publicly or having sex on bus. There is no reason to outlaw them!

    4. Re:Wow Finland! by Dahamma · · Score: 2

      Wow, two horrible analogies in 4 sentences (and 2 of them are the same sentence). Congrats!

      Given that the driver is one of those "company shareholders" ie. has as much right to *driving on* road as you do, a better analogy would be "would you call the police if your neighbor drove their car on your shared driveway because their license plate was expired?"

      And even if you would (I'm sure there are spiteful pricks who have) - calling 911 to do it is just going to get you scolded by an operator otherwise dealing with actual emergencies...

    5. Re:Wow Finland! by PPH · · Score: 2

      having sex on bus.

      Does that include the hobos playing pocket pool on our transit busses? Because that has been going on for years.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    6. Re:Wow Finland! by tp_xyzzy · · Score: 4, Informative

      > And the entire point of licensed taxis was to guarantee
      > service at all times and to all areas at a fair price.

      Actually, the reason why there's a permit required to start a taxi service is because otherwise everyone that had a car could start a underground taxi service. Almost every adult have a car, thus we would have thousands of underground taxi services in the country. They want driving a taxi to be profitable occupation, thus it requires a permit issued by the government. Ordinary people who have cars are not allowed to start a taxi service. Uber should follow the law, and get permits from the government for anyone driving taxis.

    7. Re:Wow Finland! by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      I'm glad Finland has no other problems for the police to worry about.

      Pretty much. Other than "18 year-old drunken Finnish youth molesting a reindeer" there really isn't much crime in Finland. What there is can be chalked up to the fact that for 7 months of the year, there's not much to do but drink.

      Finland isn't even in the top 100 developed countries in terms of crime rates. Clearly, they're not trying hard enough.

      --
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    8. Re:Wow Finland! by ganjadude · · Score: 2

      dont be obtuse

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      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    9. Re:Wow Finland! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Its just bizarre wording in tweet by Helsinki police and some reporter ran with it to manufacture tiny bit of drama.

      The "bizarre wording" was in the translation, not the official tweet, which was not in English.

    10. Re:Wow Finland! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      They want driving a taxi to be profitable occupation

      Nonsense. In a free market, the profitability of taxi driving will be diminished by competition for fares. In a system of artificial scarcity, the profitability of taxi driving will be diminished by competition for medallions (permits), which often cost over $1Million. In either case, the profitability will be reduced until supply meets demand. The only difference is who benefits. In a free market, the public benefits. In a medallion market, the benefits go to the governement, and are much smaller since there are fewer taxis, fewer drivers, and fewer riders than under a free market.

    11. Re:Wow Finland! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Why don't the police just book an Uber driver to come to them? Maybe don't ask for collection in front of the police station, in case it's too obvious.

      There must be more to this than we have, it doesn't make sense and the Finnish police are not that dumb.

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    12. Re:Wow Finland! by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Pulled this definition from Google.

      In criminal law, entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit a criminal offense that the person would have otherwise been unlikely to commit

      It doesn't count as entrapment if you just use the usual method to book the Uber car. If the guy is signed up as an Uber driver, and being an Uber driver is against the law, then the driver is obviously previously disposed to commit the crime. There might be more of a case if they stopped a random guy on the street and offered him $50 to drive him a couple miles down the road. Who wouldn't pass up that offer?

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    13. Re:Wow Finland! by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      False due to clueless poster not knowing what he's talking about.

      In Finland, taxis are a part of public infrastructure. When you're a huge country with one of the lowest population densities in the world, you have to make certain adjustments. Taxi licence in Finland requires a significant background check and passing a specific course. Their task, among other things, is to ferry small children to schools in rural areas, assisting the elderly and disabled in transportation for a minimal fee and other similar mission critical tasks for operation of the state and its support of its weaker members. As a result, one of the items of feedback we typically get from tourists is that while our taxis are fairly expensive, they tend to provide some of the best quality of service in the world.

      Civil disobedience in this case would be a direct attack on least privileged in the country which prides itself on having one of the most inclusive welfare states in the world. And it sounds a lot less sexy to say "let's dismantle the system that lets us ferry our elderly and our small children as necessary for much smaller cost than a separate service would require" than "yeah, let's stick it to the MAN!"

    14. Re:Wow Finland! by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you want to be a police officer in Finland, there's only one school in the entire country that can qualify you. You need lyceum education with good grades. Finnish Intelligence Service will make a background check on you. If you're male, you have to have finished your mandatory military service, and you're credited if you were in military police unit. Citizenship of the country is mandatory.
      You have to pass a series of tests to be accepted if you meet all other requirements, which includes a personal interview, various psychological tests as well as written test, physical test and some group work.

      You are also required to adhere to ethics code, which is very tight. Essentially you are assumed to represent the police force to people, and as relationship between police and population in Finland is very good, making police look bad due to your bad behaviour will get you ejected from the force very rapidly.
      If you are accepted, it's recommended that you live on their campus (which is a closed dorm, and allows visitors only on permission). This is one of the mechanisms they use to weed out problematic individuals.

      Typically this takes about 3 years. You complete studies with bachelor's degree in policing which lets you become a basic police officer. Studies include items that vary from relevant laws to criminology to physical conditioning.

      If you want to make it a career, you will want to go for master's degree which would allow you to become inspector. That's another ~2 years of studies.

      I know this because my alma mater, Tampere university of technology shared a sports facility with the police academy back in the day. It was right next to our campus, so I got to meet a lot of people from that school.

      That said, in this case the police are likely being given the order to perform specific investigation from higher up. I.e. inspectors who are people that have master's degree in policing and relevant law and assisted by people with PhD in law as specialists.

    15. Re: Wow Finland! by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2

      Sorry, still not entrapment - even by booking him, you aren't enticing the driver to do something he wouldn't have otherwise have been willing to do. He would still be taking bookings before and after you, so he's still culpable.

      If you enticed someone to sign up for Uber and then take your booking - that's entrapment. If he's already available to take bookings, its not entrapment.

    16. Re: Wow Finland! by Holi · · Score: 2

      Why are you applying a US law to a foreign nation?

      --
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  2. Statists will not go quietly into the night by mi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe, licensing taxies was a good idea at some point. There is very little competition among them, because their usage is sporadic — you need it, you raise a hand to hail one and take the first available without any way of figuring out the driver's and his company's reputation.

    But Uber and Lyft and others have changed that. You can choose between these companies and you know the driver's reputation — and bad ones don't survive there long. A piece of government bureaucracy found itself irrelevant.

    That is a very hard thing to accept and acknowledge even for honest men and women. For the corrupt ones — and, face it, government jobs tend to attract a higher share of such — it is something to fight tooth-and-nail. With laws, regulations, and PR-campaigns... Private victims of the old system may also be used as foot-soldiers against the new. It will not be pretty, but technology is destiny. We'll win, but not easily.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Uhm, in Uber app you see the driver picture and name and license plate and make and model of the car... Bit easy to figure out if it's him/her or not...

    2. Re: Statists will not go quietly into the night by mi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm a libertarian and want Uber and Lyft shut down, or sued out of existence.

      The only way a business is "shut down" in a Libertarian country, is by not making enough money — from happy willing customers — to continue to operate. If you want it to be shut down by anyone/anything else, you aren't a Libertarian. Thanks for playing.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    3. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by TWX · · Score: 3, Funny

      My point is that there are potential criminal penalties enforced by the state if the driver of the cab isn't the licensee.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    4. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by 0123456 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My point is that there are potential criminal penalties enforced by the state if the driver of the cab isn't the licensee.

      So what?

      The British government thinks it's quite OK for convicted rapists to become cab drivers, so why would you care whether the driver is the one they licensed?

    5. Re: Statists will not go quietly into the night by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's a difference between a libertarian and an anarchist

    6. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by TWX · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Guilty until proven innocent? Thank you for exposing yourself as a statist... You are the enemy, and you will be defeated.

      Forgot to reply to this part earlier.

      I'm a realist and I've had to deal with small businesses and contractors my entire working life. The one thread that nearly all of them have in common is they'll cut corners whenever and wherever they can at an upper management level, will cut corners at middle management crew-chief or foreman or section manager level, and the employees themselves will further cut corners whenever and wherever they can as well. In some ways it doesn't matter if upper management decides to turn-around problems, if their middle management layers and workers have other ideas then nothing will change.

      As far as Uber goes, if a driver as an independent contractor wants to save money he may well reduce his insurance. After all, he's a safe driver, right? He doesn't get into crashes, right? What's the difference besides a few more bucks in his pocket? That works fine until he's involved in a crash and his insurance won't pay the whole bill for the extensive medical treatment for his badly injured passenger, or even where the other driver has no insurance and his commercial insurance is supposed to cover his own passengers in that scenario, except he doesn't have it...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    7. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by mi · · Score: 2

      My point is that there are potential criminal penalties enforced by the state if the driver of the cab isn't the licensee.

      So? Is this supposed to be a good thing?! An advantage of the current model?!

      Wow... And, by the way, you are yet to cite any stats showing, it actually works — that Uber drivers "share" their contracts with others more often, than government-licensed cabbies sublease their cabs...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    8. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Informative

      You have a very strange idea about how taxis work.

      because their usage is sporadic — you need it, you raise a hand to hail one and take the first available without any way of figuring out the driver's and his company's reputation.

      Absolutely, 100% wrong unless you live in Manhattan, NYC. Have you ever been outside Manhattan? I used to live in northern NJ, and I noticed that a lot of Manhattanites had an extremely myopic view of the world, and it seemed like many of them had never left the island at all and couldn't conceive of how life is very different outside their little bubble.

      Let me clue you in. Outside of Manhattan (but inside the US), at almost any place except for a busy airport's taxi stand, or a few select high-density downtown areas (perhaps SF or Chicago), you don't get a cab by raising your hand. Instead, you (before Uber came along) had to find a phone, then find a phone book (remember those?), then look up cab companies, call one of them, hope they're open, and have them "radio dispatch" a driver to pick you up. You could be waiting 30-60 minutes to get a ride. After smartphones became common, it got a little easier because now you have a phone in your pocket and can look up cab companies on Google Maps, but the 30-60 minute wait was still there.

      Uber/Lyft changed all that, because now you could just start up the U/L app, hit a button, and a driver would pick up the hail and start driving to you immediately, without having to talk to some moron at a dispatch office and try to tell them where you're located; the app knows exactly where you are from your GPS location, and sends that to the driver. Then, you can see just how far away the driver is, so if he's too far away you can cancel that hail and start a new one and let another closer driver pick it up. U/L put power back into the hands of the consumer, rather than the service provider.

      The stuff about reputation is good too, but the biggest difference I saw in using the services a handful of times when my car was unavailable was convenience.

      U/L really are revolutionary in multiple ways: convenience, reputation, etc.; I do believe they still need regulation, but this seems like an unfortunately case where many different governments in different places are showing themselves to be either incompetent or outright corrupt by attempting to kill U/L instead of working with them to establish good regulations, mainly because the established taxi companies don't like it and want to keep things in the 20th century, where consumers have no way of sharing information about cab companies and drivers and have no way of easily making use of them.

    9. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      Some of the most corrupt countries in the world are without any regulation or control, eg. right-wing laissez faire. Fx Somalia with almost non-existent central government. Or a number of US supported South-American countries.

      Yeah, you're right. None of those countries have governments, do they?

      Go back to Fluffy Lefty Fantasy World. You'll be happier there.

    10. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by savuporo · · Score: 2

      >> or a few select high-density downtown areas (perhaps SF or Chicago), you don't get a cab by raising your hand.

      In SF, you get a cab by raising your hand only at times when you dont need one. At all other hours, it is impossible to hail a cab on street, and calling does not help - the guys simply dont show up. Official taxi company apps are teh suck and never work. Hence, Uber just wins by actually getting you a car when you need one.

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    11. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      No-one is arguing that it's wrong for Uber to enhance the UI of getting a taxi ride with a smartphone application.

      Yes, they are. The traditional cab companies don't want anything to do with this, and want people to stick to calling them on the phone, or with some of them, using their own cab-calling app (which of course only works for their company, and sure as hell doesn't let you rate drivers).

      The problem is that Uber operates a taxi service with unlicensed drivers in unlicensed cars.

      Then that's something the governments need to work with Uber on fixing, instead of trying to shut them down. So far, Uber is providing a service that's far better, with better driver and better cars and better service along with the better UI, all at a much cheaper price.

    12. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by hsa · · Score: 4, Informative

      I live in Finland. If you suffer a hard crash, you don't have to pay thousands of euros, since healthcare is mostly free and in case of accident, they charge you like 15 euros booking fee and some additional expenses, if you need a room at the hospital to recover. But that is like 100 euros a night on public healthcare.

      Insurance is mostly for the car damage (both cars) and it is required by the law.

      --

      The taxis are really expensive in Finland, the base fare is ~7 euros and you pay like 2 euros/km and there is extra for the drive time. In Estonia, the taxis cost one third of our prices and they have a decent taxi system.

      For all this bureaucracy our taxi cars are mostly new, top shape and drivers get tax deductions on their cars. You would think, that they know the city they drive in, but half of the time they use navigators. You can pay by credit card and I have never been scammed in a Finnish taxi.

      I am sure the taxi drivers are pissed, because using cheaper cars and drivers would bring the prices down to a realistic level (like less than 50% of current prices) and taxi drivers pay a premium to the dispatch centers for getting their fares.

      Mostly taxis are used on friday and satuday nights, when people get home from the clubs and pubs. Having to wait 30 minutes for a taxi in a queue is common here and that generates a lot of fights, when drunken fools try to skip the queue. If some normal working man would like to generate a little extra income on those nights, that would be just awful - for the business..

    13. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      Citation needed. From what I remember on Uber's own website, they claim to do background checks of drivers. That doesn't sound like opposition to me.

      Plus, regular cab companies don't do background checks. There's no guarantee, or even any way to check, that the driver that picks you up in a yellow cab has been checked.

    14. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bullshit.

      The 30-60 minute wait is mainly because the taxi is busy or will take that long to arrive so that part of your argument is pretty poor.

      100% wrong. If that's the case, why is it that I can get an Uber, in the same place and same time, in less than 5 minutes? Obviously, there's a problem with the cab company, not with too few drivers. Or maybe the regulation has intentionally constrained the supply of drivers and cabs, because the goal of the regulation is to greatly reduce competition and keep prices high.

      And if things are working "well" in other countries, then why is there so much demand for Uber? If things were that great, they wouldn't have any customers there, because the riders would stick with the traditional cab companies.

    15. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      That would require Uber to want to work with governments in the first place. They're opposed to regulations such as police background checks; there's not much middle ground there.

      Bullshit. In the UK All Uber cars are licensed as private hire cars and the drivers as private hire drivers. Uber is keen to work within the existing regulations where they are allowed to.

    16. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by cheesybagel · · Score: 2

      In Estonia the minimum wage and cost of living is also lower. I bet the vodka is cheaper too.

      You don't want a person driving the taxi. You want a robot slave.

    17. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by rsmith-mac · · Score: 2

      Citation needed. From what I remember on Uber's own website, they claim to do background checks of drivers. That doesn't sound like opposition to me.

      Sure: http://www.cnet.com/news/ubers-background-checks-dont-catch-criminals-says-houston/

      Uber performs in-house background checks, but they oppose municipalities that require police background checks (which is the requirement in most areas for taxi services). There is concern that Uber's in-house checks aren't very thorough, and that they aren't looking very hard as to not have to fail so many applications, or more likely because a tougher background check is more expensive to process (fingerprints, etc). Not that even police background checks are perfect, mind you, just that they're going to catch more than Uber's in-house checks. Plus I suspect there's an element of municipalities not trusting Uber to run these checks in the first place.

      And yes, taxi companies do more complete background checks, at least in more areas.

      So while taxi companies check a prospective driver's fingerprint records against a database that theoretically (more on that in a minute) includes a person's complete criminal history in the United States, Uber background checks use a database that can only go back seven years for some information.

      Anyhow, this is one area where Uber is inflexible. They seem generally disinterested in working with governments beyond getting their existing business plan approved, especially on anything where implementing a regulation would increase costs.

    18. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by eht · · Score: 2

      In some parts of Romania (my only experience is in Cluj) Uber will not get much foothold because the regular cab companies already do everything Uber does and more (free wifi). They either have their own apps or you can call any time day or night and the fares are reasonable. Outside of Romania? I never use cabs anymore, only Uber.

    19. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by demonlapin · · Score: 2

      Uber Black is a standard, licensed, liveried car service. You can even hire most of the guys outside of Uber if you want.

    20. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Funny

      I live in Finland.

      It looks more like you're trapped inside a typewriter factory. I suppose it could be located in Finland.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    21. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      "You are equating giving someone a ride without a license to murdering your neighbor's dog?"

      In the US, if we want the neighbor's dog killed, we call the police.

    22. Re:Statists will not go quietly into the night by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      By using Uber aren't you restricted to just using one app for that particular company? And if you are using Lyft then, well, aren't you then using multiple apps which you seem to be against?

      I see your point here, and sorry if I didn't elaborate on this before, but a couple of counterpoints:

      1) There's only 3 ride-sharing apps that I know of: Uber, Lyft, and Sidecar. The first two are easily the biggest, I'm pretty sure; I don't think Sidecar even competes directly with them. And there's only those two, nationwide; if you go to different metro areas, you still only have to deal with one or two ride-sharing companies. With regular cab companies, there's a bunch of them in any given metro area, and they're all different. If you travel to a handful of different cities for work, for instance, that means you'll have to deal with dozens of cab companies' apps. Even if you stick to one area, there's still likely quite a few companies there.

      2) Uber's drivers aren't employees, they're "contractors", and more importantly, they actually compete with each other. With a regular cab company, you're stuck with whoever they feel like sending. With Uber, you can reject drivers if you don't like them (rating is too low, personal experience with them before, their car is ugly, whatever). In fact, sometimes it really pays to reject a driver, because some guy who's really far away may grab your fare, so you can reject him and let a closer driver take you instead. Anyway, with Uber/Lyft, you have options, and control over who drives you. U/L are really just ways for drivers to connect with riders; though the pricing is controlled, and some other aspects, it's not like a regular taxi company (or any other business) where the company picks the employee you're going to deal with, and you can like it or lump it.

  3. Re:Where are the Europhiles now? by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Here they come...

    I'm glad they do that because Uber is an illegally operating taxi company.

    And yes, I am 100% pro EU.

  4. Couldn't they just book one? by TWX · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How about booking one, then questioning the driver?

    I'm a little confused too, aren't Uber drivers using their own cars? Is there something that is supposed to distinguish the car from any other car?

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  5. Predictable by Jodka · · Score: 2

    from the /. summary:

    The police in Helsinki, Finland has announced in a tweet that if you see someone driving Uber car, you should call 911 (or actually, 112 in Finland).

    from Wikipedia:

    The Road to Serfdom is a book written by the Austrian-born economist and philosopher Friedrich von Hayek (1899–1992) between 1940–1943, in which he "[warns] of the danger of tyranny that inevitably results from government control of economic decision-making through central planning."[1] He further argues that the abandonment of individualism and classical liberalism inevitably leads to a loss of freedom, the creation of an oppressive society, the tyranny of a dictator, and the serfdom of the individual.

    --
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    1. Re:Predictable by dryeo · · Score: 2

      That's so true, before the 20th century when regulations became common there were no serfs. Look at Czarist Russia, the common people were so free, or America in the mid 19th century, slaves rather then surfs along with workers stuck getting paid in script that could only be spent at the company store. We can even go back further to the 14th century when the black death empowered the working class due to the shortage of labour and how serfdom disappeared thanks to the lack of regulations.
      The rich left to themselves have always strived to free people and it is only today that people have lost their freedoms and rights due to government interference, often forcing business to abuse their workers and make more money.

      --
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  6. Re:Spotted by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

    . . . especially if you were talking Finnish to them . . .

    --
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  7. Why call the police? by WPIDalamar · · Score: 3, Funny

    Couldn't the police just use the app?

  8. Ug by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    nice narrative you've got there. It'd be a real shame if some reality got dropped on it...

    This isn't about competition. It's about removing the protections employees have been afforded and treating folks who are very plainly not contractors as contractors. In most countries the gov't imposed costs on employment to make sure employees (who were largely powerless) weren't abused. It's sorta like how you can never sell yourself into slavery in fairly because if you're making that kind of deal you're already as such a huge disadvantage that the deal could never be 'fair'.

    I don't know about Finland but in America we've based our entire quality of life on this system. There's no safety net here, not even a token one. These phoney "contractor" jobs eliminate the last real protections workers here had. It's also not sustainable. The $15/hr you'll max out at with Uber (after accounting for gas & routine maintenance) won't buy you a new car at 200k when the old one falls apart and you can't get parts (and before you say: I can get parts for a 20 year old car! Try actually _using_ those parts. they're junk, and you'll break down constantly. How long will you last as a driver with 2-3 breakdowns a year?).

    Uber isn't the sharing economy, it's the desperation economy.

    --
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  9. People using the word "statists" are morons. by mjwx · · Score: 2

    Maybe, licensing taxies was a good idea at some point.

    And they still are.

    You might want to go and actually live in a place where licenses on taxis isn't enforced. I can suggest a few (Phuket, Thailand is a good one). Taxi gangs are so powerful there, they've stopped any attempt at getting public transport in many towns and villages, in many cases by beating up the drivers whenever a Baht Bus service is started. They've divvied up turf and will happily fight with each other over it, every Tuk Tuk driver is armed for just this very reason and they ensure profitability by refusing to turn on the engine for less than 300 Baht (which is the minimum wage in Phuket).

    This is in stark contrast to well regulated Bangkok. Taxi's are cheap and plentiful, less than 400 Baht from the city centre to the airport and if that's too rich for your blood, the train now goes to the airport as well.

    Unregulated taxi environments always lead to violence and a poorer experience for the passenger. Most western nations learned this generations ago when jitneys and illegal cab operations were literally run by organised criminals, in many developing nations where governments are too inept, corrupt or both to control the taxi drivers, this situation continues. Honestly, if you think the taxi laws around your area are too restrictive then work to change them rather than eliminate them because unregulated taxi environments are worse than the strictest regulations.

    Also, calling your opponents "statists" only demonstrate that your point is extremely weak and that you've haven't even got the originality to use a semi-original insult... or even one that has a proper meaning.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    1. Re:People using the word "statists" are morons. by Jumunquo · · Score: 2

      Uhhh ... when the gangs and corruption are out-of-control, does the business model really matter? Isn't the problem that the areas are controlled by violent gangs? It seems you have reversed cause and effect.

  10. Re:Meh, what's your alternative by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    The 1% have shown they have no fear of large, central governments. They'll use their wealth and power to make one that suits their needs at your expense. So I ask you, what are you going to do about it?

    You mean, how do we fix it? There's no point in even trying until more of the population becomes aware that this is what is actually happening, and that they have a better chance to win the lottery than to break into the handjob circle of generationally rich bastards through hard work. And there's no point in explaining that as long as they think they're likely to win the lottery.

    Seriously, though, convincing people that the two-party system is effectively a one-party system would be a big step in the right direction. You can't get change by doing the same shit you've been doing. Problem is, we can't even agree on that here. Even with people looking right at the campaign contribution records they still yelp about false equivalence. Sure, in general, Reps and Dems are different, that just doesn't matter. The money is applied in the way that causes the expected results — expansion of corporate power, and of media influence.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"