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Microsoft Releases Windows 10 IoT Core For Small, Embedded Devices
An anonymous reader writes: One of the more interesting aspects of Microsoft's Windows 10 push is their desire to see it running on hobbyist hardware platforms. Today they released Windows 10 IoT Core for the Raspberry Pi 2 and the MinnowBoard Max. They say, "Windows 10 IoT Core is a new edition for Windows targeted towards small, embedded devices that may or may not have screens. For devices with screens, Windows 10 IoT Core does not have a Windows shell experience; instead you can write a Universal Windows app that is the interface and "personality" for your device." Microsoft has posted a list of release notes for this version, calling out improved support for Python and Node.js, significantly improved GPIO performance, and more electronics support for breakout boards. Under a heading cheekily named 'Developers, Developer, Developers,' they lay out their plan for language support and provide a code sample.
Given Microsoft's track record on OS/application security, you will almost certainly end up being physically attacked by your hacked MSIOT home.
Can't wait to play Halo on my Raspberry Pi!
People already use Windows to build embedded systems. I don't know why they do that to begin with, but this will surely keep some of them from jumping ship.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Why in the hell would I try to run it on something with only a fraction of the speed?
How much of the data passing through a Windows 10 IoT device gets vacuumed up and sent to Microsoft?
All of the important bits. We can thank Google for showing them the way. THANKS GOOGLE!
I wish they would add Intel Edison support.
The two rules for success are:
1) Never tell them everything you know.
True, but they were differnt Windows, or rather true Windows. WinCE, Win XP-Embedded, even Win3.11 was available for devices until a few years back.
This Windows10 for Embedded is like WindowsRT for ARM CPUs which was largely abandoned by Microsft themselves, and the hardware was written off for a few billions.
The traditional VB style apps and the huge library of VB plug-ins for devices and peripherals do not wxist in Windows 10 anymore. All device developers have long jumped ship to the Raspberry Pi, and this is MS playing catch up just like in the Android and mobile markets which they lost.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Given that WinCE has mostly gotten the chop(the sort of legacy customers that remain aren't the kind that you just cut off; but they aren't soliciting new ones); I assume that an NT kernel is included; but given that we are dealing with ARM devices that have a mostly fixed set of hardware included and largely custom add-ons, driver support or binary compatibility aren't going to be selling points.
.net programmers looking to twiddle GPIOs? Something the kernel is radically faster at?
So, what do they include, and what is the pitch? Best environment for
So... it's id will be: Windows ID10(Io)T
Thoughts... ever form one on your own?
Some people working on embedded systems have day-jobs working with the Microsoft stack. I would wager a guess that a fair number of them would rather not bother with Java or Python when they already know C# and F# and are already familiar with the tooling in a way that no hobbyist would ever be. Personally, I fall into that category. I work with C# daily (and F# occasionally). I've done some Arduino stuff and have played around with the Raspberry Pi. But my familiarity with C#, F#, Visual Studio, and Windows in general make me feel much more comfortable and open up so many more possibilities to me.
Just because you don't like Microsoft doesn't mean everybody, or even anybody (how do you know what other people are thinking? can you read minds?) else shares that opinion with you.
And what does another option hurt? Isn't it about user choice? Stop choosing for me. Go be a zealot elsewhere. And by "elsewhere", I mean not on this planet.
Nice trolling.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Taking away the buzz word quotient, IOT is fine. Have appliances and devices that interact with one another in a clean, secure, interoperable way. That sounds great. I'd love more home automation and more safe interaction with the environment I walk through. The problems is nobody seems to talk to one another, they're horribly expensive, everyone's out to maximize the self-fullfilling non-existing profits in this space; all of which cripples any meaniungful adoption.
Just like 'cloud' before it, there was real meat behind the buzz, but it took time, open platform designs and simple integration before any real traction occurred in pushing LAN services into others' hosting.
Bye!
And with Xbox on Windows 10, I can play Halo with a $35 Raspberry Pi without having to buy a $400 Xbox One! Plus all of the other thousands of Windows games will just work since it's Windows, and Windows is Windows!
Win10IoT isn't for hobbyists, it's for embedded system vendors.
This is the play by MS to prevent all the ATMs, kiosks, and point of sale systems that still run XP/Vista/7 from getting replaced with Linux solutions. There's already one airline running rPi+Raspian on their airport gate screens. And if you've been wondering how the hell Redmond has any chance of hitting their "1 billion Win10 devices" goal, this is the lion's share of it. No way they sell that many PC/Surface/Xbone/WinPhone units and get that many people to upgrade from 7 and 8.x.
MS has never cared about hobbyist developers, and they never will. Everything they do is from a B2B perspective.
I've played Halo 2 on my PlayStation and Halo 5 on my Dreamcast. Whether you can play them on RPi2 depends on what audio codecs Windows 10 IoT Core supports.
Already most of the raspberry pi's I have seen people using
says the guy who works in a microsoft test lab
The very notion of anti-virus drives hobbyists away from Windows, because the hobbyist thinks he is in charge of the toys, and not some uncaring 800lb gorilla.
Until an exploit takes control of his toys away from him.
Professionals make mistakes that aren't always easy to see and some that are mighty hard to excuse. It happens whatever the language, programming tools or environment.
I think you can make a very good case for providing the amateur with a little hand-holding and protection.
Win10IoT isn't for hobbyists, it's for embedded system vendors.
You will get as much tech support as you pay for. pay nothing, get nothing.
Already most of the raspberry pi's I have seen people using have been switched over to Windows 10. It's faster, stabler, more secure, easier to use and already has thousands of applications available to use.
Given that it was released this morning, that's quite the statement. Almost like you were paid to say it, since there's absolutely no history outside of a few Microsoft devs doing internal testing....
From the code 'example': // Copyright (c) Microsoft. All rights reserved.
var http = require('http');
Right at the very beginning of a very simple few lines of code. Soubds like "Keep away from our great new shiny platform that WE created. It is for US, not for YOU."
I haven't seen a more scarier looking launch and promotion site.
About the same amount as that passing through any Apple device or Google service.
As long as Microsoft leaves the naughty bits behind...
It is a nice change to see M$ playing catchup with Linux.
I think I'll stick to running Risc OS on my Pi.
RTFA - "This means full support for the standard UWP languages like C++, C#, JS and VB, but it also means bringing support – including full tools, debugging, and project systems – for Node.js and Python."
If they support remote debugging using Visual Studio it will be enough to get a lot of people interested.
I love Linux but VS is a really good IDE.
"The next thing you will hear is the You do not need an IDE Emacs and gdb is good enough crowd."
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Visual Studio.
After working with Kiel for a while I learned to really like Visual Studio.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
The price of Freedom is eternal vigilance. Did you forget that?
Good-bye
it also means bringing support – including full tools, debugging, and project systems – for Node.js and Python."
That stuff is running quite well under raspbian, relatively mature code. What would be the point of running node.js or python on a very buggy beta release of an operating system when you can do the same thing on a mature stable system? You will find bugs, you will report them, the whole thing will slow you down, and you will be doing Microsoft's QA job for them and getting paid nothing for it.
The original Xbox was just a PC. I loved how the documentation explained that the A: and B: drives — ye olde floppies — were hidden.
everywhere.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Well I, for one, am going to give it a try. I had the beta version loaded but hadn't written any code for it yet. I'll load up the production version on my Pi2 this weekend. I've done some Arduino coding and projects in the past, but Visual Studio is a much better IDE so it should be much nicer than futzing with that Arduino code editor.
All your internet of things is belong to us.
I'm gonna take a cue from my fellow AC, cut the fanboyism.
> Win10IoT isn't for hobbyists, it's for embedded system vendors.
WinIoT requires the Pi2. Embedded system vendors will find that to be too expensive to deploy when they could use a PiA or compute module for Linux (or other) based systems.
I also note that IoT is free for the maker community (ie hobbyists). It does not say that it is free for deploying as part of products - Linux is. While IoT may be free to 'makers' they will require a full Windows 10 PC to do development while with Linux a Pi2 is all that you need.
I'm gonna take a cue from my fellow AC, cut the fanboyism.
what's the problem, i'm sure it will be an interesting platform when the release notes are not chock full of "this isn't working correctly yet"
Yaaaaawn. So boring. I can't even muster the energy to make a really snide reply to such dreary nonsense, I can barely manage to finish this sen
You neckbeards stuck in ca. 1997 amuse me to no end. Your tech knowledge is as dated as your "last laid on" date.
First, Windows is quite secure these days. Nothing's perfect, but it certainly will match mainstream Linux.
Second, it's not bloated at all. This is a small version specifically intended for IoT. They didn't take "Windoze" (as you probably still call it) 98 (the version you are probably most familiar with) and dump it on a USB drive, you ponce.
The price of Freedom is eternal vigilance. Did you forget that?
where's the freedom in running a closed source operating system? is microsoft paying you for your eternal vigilance?
Thoughts... ever form one on your own?
Yes. Most people here love Google. I don't. That means I'm incapable of independent thought?
$35/unit retail is too expensive for embedded systems? Maybe some, but not for those where an old Windows is already deployed. There's a rPi B+ among the equipment in the box on my house that my ISP put there.
The true purpose of it is for embedded vendors to pay bulk for licenses for it, otherwise MS wouldn't bother at all (they really fear losing all the embedded markets to Linux). Win10IoT may be free to makers, but it serves them next to no purpose. The bone MS is throwing at makers has no marrow in it.
And your use of the phrase "from a XX perspective" makes you a corporate goon as much as MS.
Stallman? Seriously though, the world is not black and white like this. And please feel free to peruse my 10+ year Slashdot history, full of very harsh criticisms of Microsoft.
Good-bye
I just developed an embedded system on Open Embedded/Yocto. I don't know if I'll ever use Linux again after I can use Windows 10 IOT. Getting an embedded Linux customized and all of the necessary packages is a huge PITA. Compiling for that custom distribution image is an even larger PITA. I think I probably spent about 50% on my application and 50% on just pure bullshit trying to get it to run.
Having Visual Studio, a bullet proof build and deployment system, an easy remote debugging system and the ability to *test* on my local machine in emulation easily? SOLD.
Well, either you're on a standard platform say a raspi or any other one, and you don't need to recompile the whole operating system / gnu stdlib since there already is one ready and stable (raspian), or you're on a custom platform. In that case it's custom linux BSP (can be a pita) vs not supported, get lost. I'll take the first one.
How much of the data passing through a Windows 10 IoT device gets vacuumed up and sent to Microsoft?
Windows IoT is designed to use Azure as its connection point on the Internet. ie _all_ data will pass through Azure.
These systems in my view are too big for IoT.
> $35/unit retail is too expensive for embedded systems?
Yes. Pi 1 A is half that price, but Windows IoT requires Pi2 as minimum. For simple IoT devices Arduino non-brand compatibles can be had for $5 or so.
Let's pick a random sample from Apple, /*
Copyright (C) 2015 Apple Inc. All Rights Reserved.
See LICENSE.txt for this sample’s licensing information
Abstract:
Standard AppKit entry point.
*/
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/samplecode/GLEssentials/Listings/GLEssentials_Source_main_m.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/DTS40010104-GLEssentials_Source_main_m-DontLinkElementID_35
It is highly unlikely that the Win10 IoT license would allow such widespread use anyway.
Except windows 10 upgrade is free, Visual Studio Express is Free (even for production). Um.. have you tried developing windows programs in linux or OSX?
I'm tired of hearing "Windows 10 upgrade is free" from Microsoft fanboys. Not everyone is using Windows. And a lot of people are still using older versions like Windows XP.
From http://www.microsoftstore.com/...
Get Windows 10
Free upgrade available only to qualified devices currently running Windows 7, 8, or 8.1.*
For system builders or Mac users, buy the full version of Windows 10.
CAD$149.00 (Download or USB)
I don't call that free at all, so fuck off.
please be sure and report back on your findings, since you are an ac, it will be easy to know it is you reporting back and not some other random shill.
Only I can judge you.
It's around USD$2.00 if you go with a "pro mini".
Pay nothing, get nothing. So you're saying its like Linux?
Anything that runs node.js and python is not part of the I O things. An IOt device is more likely to have 256 bytes not 256MB and be a PIC or an 8051 not a x86 or A9. If it is an overpriced high end device maybe a M0. 8K bytes is a whole universe on an embedded device. An IOt device is a connected sensor or a actuator, not a computer or a web server.
So, when it's absolutely nothing like any open source project or anything-besides-stable-so-very-old-kernel os?
Embedded system vendors will find that to be too expensive to deploy when they could use a PiA or compute module for Linux (or other) based systems.
To paraphrase Bill Gates: A PiA ought to be enough for anybody.
where's the freedom in running a closed source operating system?
where's the freedom in running an open source operating system on closed source hardware? do you happen to have a GPLv3-licensed operating system handy? if you spent less time whining and more time creating like everybody else you might actually have a solution instead of a bunch of diatribes about how Microsoft and Apple and Tivo are evil and even how you shouldn't follow Linus Torvalds if you want freedom. Though of course RMS has no problem Trojaning his ideals via the Linux kernel and then turning around and bitching that other people (Tivo for example) shouldn't be allowed to do the same.
It's called an UPGRADE.
If you don't own an previous version, then there is nothing to UPGRADE.
Although, if you have a raspberry PI board - you do seem to be able to download a copy of Windows 10 for that, without having a previous copy...
Does that make it free-er for you?
> Second, it's not bloated at all. This is a small version specifically intended for IoT.
While Raspian or others can run a complete Linux, including LXDE and development tools, on a Pi1, Windows10 IoT is just a core OS with no GUI of its own and it can run just a single app that has been loaded from a full PC into the boot sequence. Even then it requires a Pi2 with more RAM and CPU than the full Linux OS (or other) does.
Yes, it is bloated. It may be small compared to Windows 10 PC, but 'small' in the IoT world is a $5 Arduino mini/micro (non-brand) or less.
Dreary FUD. It's like you guys don't even try any more.
From the first page of the linked website:
Download Now : Click here to start downloading for FREE now. You will need the latest version of Windows 10, Visual Studio 2015 and tools.
so...
Does that make it free-er for you?
No. As you can see you must have Win10 on your development box. They are giving you nothing.
We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders)...
Oh, should I have sugar-coated that?
Free upgrade or not, there's requirements to be eligible for it, meaning my argument is valid. If you're not already a user of a recent Microsoft Windows OS, it's not free at all.
Secure against who exactly? Their policy actually states they're going to take and share your private files.
It sounds like you should have used a more standard/off the rack distro or you're forgetting that that degree of customization for Windows would be somewhere between just as much work to impossible.
qemu offers emulation for a number of CPUs if you need emulation. Another option is to do a more complete install on your target hardware to act as a development platform. GDB does remote debugging if you like. It's really not that hard to use a cross compiler. There are a wide variety pre-built that you can use or detailed step by step instructions for building a cross compiler from source if you prefer.
These systems in my view are too big for IoT.
And yet they'll be exploited just as easily.
That's where I've started to draw the line: if it's a device that is easily exploited, then it's part of IoT. Yes, I'm aware that this means many mainframes are part of the IoT. Those are called "dessert."
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Funny, I find just the opposite to be true. Buidroot works just fine for me. OpenWrt is as easy as pie. POSIX API scales down to several RTOS (YMMV) and up to supercomputers.
Windows is...windows. I used to use it but I moved on. I don't think it prudent to tie my future to an ecosystem controlled by a single company, especially one with a trackrecord like MS.
Their policy actually states they're going to take and share your private files.
Citation?
Yes. Microsoft pays people to go on backwards-ass 1997 web forums and try to convince tech dinosaurs to use Windows. You've cracked the case Murder She Wrote's Angela Lansbury!
If it was really for vendors, then I'd be able to build a BSP for my custom board rather than being stuck with just Raspberry Pi, MinnowBoard, and the Galileo.
Why should you care? WinXP is unsupported OS, they have choice to move to Linux or buy Windows 10.
And they will f.. off but from Linux and not Windows 10, as it is the OS that coms with the machine and still easy path compared to Linux
Yes. That's why they haven't said Windows 10 is free: The UPGRADE is free. No false advertising there, nothing, to get upset about. No reason to type four letter words into the keyboard... and call people fanboys like there's a big conspiracy to deceive you...
With multiple "things" throughout a house, office, wherever, it does not make sense for all of them to be heavyweight processors (which I'm assuming a Windows IoT version will need). A Raspberry PI as a controller? Sure. The 100's of "things" it controls are also RPI level of power? Nope, not going to fly.
The problem with the IoT industry right now is that they are putting *waaay* too much computational power into controlling a thermostat (Nest). The power is not for controlling, sensing or communication, it's for internet ability, which is just plain stupid. This is the proverbial solution in search of an answer.
You want IoT to take off? The sensors, switches and controllers better cost less than a dollar, be extremely tiny and actually be useful. Even a dollar would be too much to pay if all I get in return is an insecure internet light switch. Maybe if some company were to fab an 8051 with RF and the comms stack with encrypted comms built in it could take off. Wasting an entire computer to control a thermostat is both wasteful and stupid.
(Yes, I'm an embedded developer)
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Yessiree, you need to embed Windows in to all the networked gadgets in your home or business - there will never be any security issues or snooping that will arise from that! Windows has NEVER had any network security issues...
Anybody who stuffs Windows into their IoT hardware deserves the next decade of patches and updates all the loss of privacy,safety and/or control that goes with it. If you are doing it in a product you plan to sell, you will presumably be limiting your target audience to the people who demanded Windows phones.
Basically, cept I can tell you precisely why your network connection is dropping on Linux. On Windows it's a good ol' wild speculation.
A fanboy is usually someone who is blind to facts. Yes the upgrade is free but it's just that: an upgrade. In case you can't see it or can't scroll back up, my original comment was:
So in typical Microsoft fashion, it's free but basically "fuck you if you use Linux or OS X".
To which the AC replied:
Except windows 10 upgrade is free, Visual Studio Express is Free (even for production). Um.. have you tried developing windows programs in linux or OSX?
So I say "it's not free" and then someone replies with "the upgrade is free" which is a totally pointless fact just to try to contradict my original point.
So, to reiterate, it doesn't matter if Windows 10 IoT is free for the Raspberry Pi 2 because it requires Windows 10 which is not free.
....with a 40 page EULA.
Nope.
Here's a great example of how open microsoft is:
Their example code has a '// Copyright (c) Microsoft. All rights reserved.' at the top. A commenter on the article pointed it out, and got this response:
"That’s correct.
Microsoft have reserved all rights and the code they have listed CANNOT be copied, used, disseminated, etc etc
So although they have given an example of usage, you CANNOT use that code yourself, so please do not copy the code in the article or you have broken copyright law.
tldr;
The code in the article is copyrighted and the property of Microsoft, DO NOT COPY!"
its microsoft being the same old microsoft.
Better an anonymous shill than a butt-hurt shit pile such as yourself.
That's only because, when it comes to Windows, you are an ignorant fuck. It's not something to be proud of.
Not everyone is a little shit head who is too poor or too tightfisted to spend a few dollars. Do you forage for food too?
so much anger, and over a simple request...
Are you paid per insult or per post and just needed to fill you "angry response" quota for the day? I checked and you have a quite a number of angry posts, are you also an angry driver that uses his horn and tailgates a lot? Does it impress your boyfriend and make him all excited or does it mortify him and he wishes you would stop?
Or is it that you are over due for a session of the needful?
Or worse yet, did you try to write an app and failed? Was it you? Was it the environment?
Only I can judge you.