Open Source, Collaborative Rich-Text, Web-Based Editor Almost Available

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Open Source, Collaborative Rich-Text, Web-Based Editor Almost Available

Posted by timothy on Thursday August 27, 2015 @06:20AM from the now-how-much-would-you-pay? dept.

johanneswilm writes: Open source web-based editors such as CKEditor and TinyMCE have been available for more than a decade, and some closed source collaborative editors such as Google Docs have been available since 2007. Creating open source, collaborative, rich-text, web-based editors has proven difficult due to lack of standardization of the lower-level browser features. Now Marijn Haverbeke, the developer behind the popular CodeMirror has started such an editor, called Prosemirror, financed through a crowd-funding campaign. Meanwhile the W3C has installed a task force to rapidly standardize and fix the features needed in browsers to easily create richtext and semantic editors.

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Make up your mind... by hyperar · 2015-08-27 06:29 · Score: 1

The title says "Almost available" and the body says "has started", which one is it?.
1. Re:Make up your mind... by Nutria · 2015-08-27 06:33 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Do we have to explain that "has started" means that he's working on it, "(a)lmost available" means it's not done yet, and that those two conditions are not mutually exclusive?
  
  --
  "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
2. Re:Make up your mind... by hyperar · 2015-08-27 06:38 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Do we have to explain that "has started" means that he's working on it, "(a)lmost available" means it's not done yet, and that those two conditions are not mutually exclusive?
  "Has started" means it just began, and "almost available" means that it is almost done, for most things, such as developing an "Open Source, Collaborative Rich-Text, Web-Based Editor Almost Available", those two are mutually exclusive.
3. Re:Make up your mind... by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 06:59 · Score: 0
  
  If the whole thing takes a week to code, both can be true on Wednesday.
4. Re:Make up your mind... by hyperar · 2015-08-27 07:16 · Score: 1
  
  If the whole thing takes a week to code, both can be true on Wednesday.
  Exactly, although, i doubt it willl just take a week.
5. Re:Make up your mind... by Nutria · 2015-08-27 07:50 · Score: 0
  
  "Has started" means it just began
  Yes.
  
  "almost available" means that it is almost done
  Yes.
  
  for most things, such as developing (a buzz-word rich software product), those two are mutually exclusive.
  Steaming crock of shit. (How much software have _you_ actually developed? Nothing that's non-trivial gets done that quick.)
  
  --
  "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
6. Re:Make up your mind... by DoofusOfDeath · 2015-08-27 07:53 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Do we have to explain that "has started" means that he's working on it, "(a)lmost available" means it's not done yet, and that those two conditions are not mutually exclusive?
  Well, to be honest I think a car analogy would help.
7. Re:Make up your mind... by hyperar · 2015-08-27 08:01 · Score: 0
  
  "Has started" means it just began
  Yes.
  
  "almost available" means that it is almost done
  Yes.
  
  for most things, such as developing (a buzz-word rich software product), those two are mutually exclusive.
  Steaming crock of shit. (How much software have _you_ actually developed? Nothing that's non-trivial gets done that quick.)
  Considering that you're nothing more than just another internet troll, way more than you. Now go eat a dick, asshole.
8. Re:Make up your mind... by radarskiy · 2015-08-27 10:12 · Score: 1
  
  Except this is Thursday. Therefore it is a conspiracy.
Installed a task force? by Bookwyrm · 2015-08-27 06:33 · Score: 3, Funny

> Meanwhile the W3C has installed a task force to rapidly ...
Whoa whoa... hold on there. What version of the task force did they install? It is compatible with the current W3C? (It runs on Linux, right?) Is the source for the task force available? Is it running in the cloud somewhere as a virtual task force?
1. Re:Installed a task force? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 06:46 · Score: 0
  
  You can read it all about in the new John Grisham - the W3C Editing Task Force
2. Re:Installed a task force? by Pseudonymous+Powers · 2015-08-27 07:49 · Score: 1
  
  >yum install w3c-richtext-editing-support
  Error: Package: w3c-richtext-editing-support-2015.8.27-1234.x86_64
  Requires: a-degree-of-good-faith-consensus-that-doesnt-exist-plus-a-nonglacial-speed-of-development
3. Re:Installed a task force? by DoofusOfDeath · 2015-08-27 07:58 · Score: 2
  
  You can read it all about in the new John Grisham - the W3C Editing Task Force
  And an edgy, noire hero with different tattoos on his fists: <pain> and </pulse>.
4. Re:Installed a task force? by Bookwyrm · 2015-08-27 09:53 · Score: 1
  
  If it was based on a Robert Ludlum novel, the movie would obviously be written as a Jason Bourne Shell Script.
5. Re:Installed a task force? by DoofusOfDeath · 2015-08-27 10:21 · Score: 1
  
  Nicely done.
Re:Fucking open source fags by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 06:34 · Score: 0

You sir, are no gentleman. You fully deserve to be sunk by a Confederate submarine. BOOM! Glug, glug, glug.
Native binaries... by serviscope_minor · 2015-08-27 06:41 · Score: 2

If they do a good job on the protocol, then it should be reasonably reasonable to make a native binary which also speaks the same protocol. That would be awesome too: you can collaborate via the web if you don't have it installed, but use a native program which doesn't hog resources like they're going out of style if you're using it a lot

--
SJW n. One who posts facts.
1. Re:Native binaries... by FatdogHaiku · 2015-08-27 06:51 · Score: 1
  
  All the demos are browser based, there may be no install at all.
  http://prosemirror.net/demo_basic.html
  I like the collaborative part because that means it's OK to f O n t F iGh t!!!
  
  --
  You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
2. Re:Native binaries... by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 13:09 · Score: 0
  
  Are you aware that the objective here is to produce a fully in-browser cross-platform rich text editing tool, and not an entirely separate program?
3. Re:Native binaries... by jedidiah · 2015-08-27 13:36 · Score: 2
  
  A document standard should be independent of any one particular person's views on how an editor for it should be implemented. Any successful format should have proof of concept tools implemented through a variety of methods.
  The data is the point, not the tool.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
4. Re:Native binaries... by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 21:13 · Score: 0
  
  If it wasn't for the closed source nature, Microsoft have actually nailed that with Office now if you use OneDrive. I switch seamlessly from web editing on machines without Office installed to the full client when I have it available. Same file, different tools. The main difference is remembering that the web version "autosaves" every action, whereas with the fat client you still explicitly save (a behaviour I prefer, as reverting to the last saved version can be very useful if you screw up).
LibreOffice Online? by Dr.Dubious+DDQ · 2015-08-27 07:02 · Score: 2

I wonder, how will this editor compare to LibreOffice Online ("LOOL"), when it's finally released?

--
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
1. Re:LibreOffice Online? by DoofusOfDeath · 2015-08-27 07:59 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder, how will this editor compare to LibreOffice Online ("LOOL"), when it's finally released?
  I assume the reviewer will be a mister Duke Nukem.
2. Re:LibreOffice Online? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 23:28 · Score: 0
  
  So, do I understand correctly that you expect LOOL eventually to be released, despite a long wait, but then for it to suck and allow you to edit with only one weapon at a time?
3. Re:LibreOffice Online? by Dr.Dubious+DDQ · 2015-08-28 13:17 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sure LOOL will be released Real Soon Now! I've already pre-ordered my copy.
  (Seriously though - unlike Duke Nukem, one can actually verify that LOOL is being actively developed. I realize they've been talking about LOOL for like half a decade now without a real release, but I actually think they'll really release it now that they have some collaborators working on it.)
  
  --
  Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
Etherpad lite is pretty close by Krishnoid · 2015-08-27 07:15 · Score: 2

I was able to spin up an instance of Etherpad Lite pretty easily. It's not very rich text, but does have programming language syntax highlighter and other plugins.
1. Re:Etherpad lite is pretty close by DuckDodgers · 2015-08-27 10:14 · Score: 1
  
  I was going to mention this one. I've been using Etherpad on the Sandstorm.io service for a few weeks and I haven't had any problems yet. I haven't used it extensively, though, and I've only been sharing documents between two accounts. But so far, so good.
WebODF and ownCloud Documents by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 07:15 · Score: 0

Did I miss something or isn't this exactly what WebODF and ownCloud Documents (which uses WebODF) do?
1. Re:WebODF and ownCloud Documents by oever · 2015-08-27 08:49 · Score: 1
  
  It's different: WebODF uses ODF as a file format. You can see this by going clicking on the text and doing 'inspect element'. This will show you the actual ODF xml.
  Demo:
  http://www.vandenoever.info/bl...
  
  --
  DNA is the ultimate spaghetti code.
ShareLaTeX by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 07:22 · Score: 1

ShareLaTeX is open source and LaTeX is better than any wysiwyg editor any day.
1. Re:ShareLaTeX by chipschap · 2015-08-27 09:40 · Score: 1
  
  Well, I know what you're trying to say, but LaTeX is a markup/macro language, not an editor :)
Apologies for very off-topic, but... by DoofusOfDeath · 2015-08-27 07:30 · Score: 1

what I really want in this broad category is for Slack to support GitHub markdown.
/off-topic-rant-mode:off
1. Re:Apologies for very off-topic, but... by nazrhyn · 2015-08-28 04:32 · Score: 1
  
  The reasons they give for not supporting actual Markdown are fairly weak, IMO. I have a custom GitLab/Slack connector service that I wrote and I actually do a manual translation from Markdown to Slackformat syntax to at least try to carry over the original message's formatting.
  
  Definitely off-topic, though.
Holding the code hostage? by xxxJonBoyxxx · 2015-08-27 07:33 · Score: 3, Insightful

>> ProseMirror is intended to become open source (MIT licenced), but since I need to combine writing open software and earning a living, I am running a crowd-funding campaign to fund the work I put into the implementation. Until that succeeds, all rights are reserved.
In other words...this is the opposite of the type of open source projects we're used to, where someone writes something to "scratch an itch," releasing better and better versions into the open source community. Instead, this guy's said "hey, I'm building something cool, and I pinkie-promise swear to release it as open source, but only if you pay me $1M^H^H^H 35,000 Euro."
1. Re: Holding the code hostage? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 07:55 · Score: 0
  
  Thanks for alerting me. There are enough open source projects to do the same. This is a waste of time.
2. Re:Holding the code hostage? by DoofusOfDeath · 2015-08-27 08:03 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not morally offended at his approach, but as a crowd-funding campaign, it does present a risk/reward ratio that I'm not willing to accept.
  What would be more acceptable is if he firs developed the software and shows its worth, and then offered to open-source it for some specified amount of money. That eliminates almost all risk related the fact or quality of the delivery.
3. Re:Holding the code hostage? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 08:12 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  And that is exactly what happened here. The software is mostly done (https://github.com/prosemirror/prosemirror), the author has a great track record of releasing and maintaining solid software, and there are demos on the project page (http://prosemirror.net).
4. Re:Holding the code hostage? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 15:57 · Score: 1
  
  I think this is one good way of doing a kickstarter: creator take up the risk to create the thing, and backers
  pay only when it is done (almost ...). This solves the "never delivered" project problem of KS. Of course
  this is only applicable for product resulting from labor only (no physical parts).
  The guy created the software, your are free to back him or not. He put his time and money to go that
  far ... whose hostage ? He ask the community to share the cost of is labor and risk taking in exchange for a software product. You are free, If you don't want to contribute then do your own software or use somebody else one.
  No hostage here !
5. Re:Holding the code hostage? by StripedCow · 2015-08-27 21:51 · Score: 1
  
  You must be one of those executive types thinking all programmers should work for free.
  
  --
  If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
6. Re: Holding the code hostage? by StripedCow · 2015-08-27 21:52 · Score: 1
  
  There are many projects that look similar on the surface, but aren't technically as sound as this project.
  If you don't agree, then please provide counter-examples :)
  
  --
  If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
7. Re:Holding the code hostage? by StripedCow · 2015-08-27 21:57 · Score: 1
  
  No hostage here !
  Indeed. The original argument is like saying: my bakery is keeping my loaf of bread hostage until I pay for it.
  
  --
  If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
8. Re:Holding the code hostage? by dotancohen · 2015-08-27 22:30 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not morally offended at his approach, but as a crowd-funding campaign, it does present a risk/reward ratio that I'm not willing to accept.
  What would be more acceptable is if he firs developed the software and shows its worth, and then offered to open-source it for some specified amount of money. That eliminates almost all risk related the fact or quality of the delivery.
  In open source, the delivery is not the binary but the code itself. I've seen (and written) quite a few applications that run great, don't crash, wow the user, and have horrible code that I was _not_ proud of. I think that Open Office under Sun was a prime example of this. I understand that Photoshop code is a horror, a mess, and that nobody understands the full code base anymore.
  
  --
  It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
9. Re:Holding the code hostage? by DoofusOfDeath · 2015-08-28 05:04 · Score: 1
  
  If the software were to get open-sourced, then immediately everyone would have access to it (because you don't need to understand it in order to simply build it). And if it was worth maintaining, presumably OSS developers could make it more maintainable over time.
W3C and rapid... by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 07:34 · Score: 0

Good luck with that.
Purpose? by Darinbob · 2015-08-27 07:42 · Score: 1

What good is such an editor? The "online" part makes it seem unusable, unless it's a scam to get people to use cloud services. If I edit a document then I will always want it local.
1. Re:Purpose? by geekd · 2015-08-27 08:00 · Score: 1
  
  Seems like the "Collaborative" part would be kinda difficult if it was not online.
2. Re:Purpose? by DuckDodgers · 2015-08-27 10:18 · Score: 1
  
  First, as Krishnoid mentioned upthread the Etherpad project is open source and already covers this: etherpad.org
  
  But cloud hosted software is wonderful, provided the end user owns the service. Owncloud, Sandstorm.io, etc...
3. Re:Purpose? by nnull · 2015-08-27 10:28 · Score: 2
  
  I'm still asking the same question. Why would I want this?
4. Re:Purpose? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 10:49 · Score: 0
  
  Expecting Emacs macros for it within a week after it's published. Obligatory XKCD:
  https://xkcd.com/378/ (Titled "Real Programmers")
5. Re:Purpose? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 23:22 · Score: 0
  
  The same reason why you would use google docs or wiki - to ensure that folks can view documents in a central location and more impoirtant to maintain links across multiple documents in a seamless manner so that you dont have to worry about navigation. Like a wiki you could collaborate to edit these documents.
  Looking forward to seeing this improve - It would be nice if this had an option for creating tables, inserting captions to images that are automatically updated, adding TOCs etc and if this could actually work with open document format - it become a nice online alternative to the likes of libreoffice.
6. Re:Purpose? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-28 00:16 · Score: 0
  
  That's what git, mercurial, svn, and countless others are for.
7. Re: Purpose? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-28 11:22 · Score: 0
  
  Okay but then why wouldn't I just use Google Docs? That has the advantage of popular familiarity so you can collaborate with most anyone pretty easily.
This will be bad by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 08:27 · Score: 0

I've seen the CodeMirror source code. This is going to be terrible.
Re:Fucking open source fags by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 09:44 · Score: 0

You sunk my anonymous coward!
Much prefer editors that dont mess with the DOM by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-27 12:19 · Score: 0

Dont like CKEditor rpefer Markedown.
After writing documents on websites and blogs coming back to re-edit a story CKeditor & TInyMC always seems to mess up the format of the original document.
I switched to Markdown couple of years ago and havent had a problem ever since.
Re:Fucking open source fags by Tablizer · 2015-08-27 12:40 · Score: 1

Is that a step up from cows?

--
Table-ized A.I.
Owncloud already has a collaborative editor by execthis · 2015-08-27 18:30 · Score: 1

FYI Owncloud Documents features collaborative editing
1. Re: Owncloud already has a collaborative editor by Anonymous Coward · 2015-08-28 07:45 · Score: 0
  
  I came here to say exactly that. OwnCloud has had this feature for at least a year now. It's built on libodf, I think.