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Linux Kernel 4.2 Released

An anonymous reader writes: The Linux 4.2 kernel is now available. This kernel is one of the biggest kernel releases in recent times and introduces rewrites of some of the kernel's Intel Assembly x86 code, new ARM board support, Jitter RNG improvements, queue spinlocks, the new AMDGPU kernel driver, NCQ TRIM handling, F2FS per-file encryption, and many other changes to benefit most Linux users.

142 comments

  1. How many people to thank? by plover · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's a long list of people who have contributed work to this, and I'd just like to say thanks to all of them.

    --
    John
    1. Re:How many people to thank? by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most civil first post on Slashdot, ever?

    2. Re:How many people to thank? by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How many people to thank?

      According to this:

      Each Linux release includes more than 10,000 patches from more than 1,400 developers and more than 200 corporations.

      Of course a whole lot of them work on some driver that won't have any effect on you unless you own that piece of hardware, same with architecture-specific code and various other subsystems. The number of code changes that touches everyone is significantly less.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:How many people to thank? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most civil first post on Slashdot, ever?

      No. I've been a Slashdot anonymous coward since the early days of slashdot back in '99. We use to have great civil discussions here all the time... Back in '04 or '05 it started trending downhill. If you don't believe me look at the "this day on slashdot" feature for some of the really old conversations

    4. Re: How many people to thank? by JDevers · · Score: 2

      99 early days? This place was awesome in 1994, downhill since.

    5. Re:How many people to thank? by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      According to this:

      Each Linux release includes more than 10,000 patches from more than 1,400 developers and more than 200 corporations.

      That's not that impressive, this open-source project has 48,000 patches contributed by tens of thousands of people (they don't record individuals vs. corporations so I don't have figures for that).

    6. Re: How many people to thank? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      It is always amazing how much further down this place can sink.

      If they brought back Slashdot Radio, it would be 100% product placement.

    7. Re:How many people to thank? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would log in except DICE annoys me, but I would also like to say Thank You, everyone.

    8. Re:How many people to thank? by excelsior_gr · · Score: 1

      Yes, but having an OS that plays nicely with lots of different hardware pieces adds to its popularity. Then developers make more software. It's an overall win for everyone.

    9. Re: How many people to thank? by chefren · · Score: 1

      1994? pfft! Back in the late 50's when I was in my early 70's this place used to be tolerable. It wen't downhill when all those hippies showed up in the 60's.

  2. How do I upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm using Ubuntu 14.04. Is there anything I have to do to get the new Linux version or will I just get it as normal?

    1. Re:How do I upgrade? by bcdonadio · · Score: 1

      You're using a distribution (Ubuntu) which does not do rolling-release, which means the version that you get when you install is the version that will be until the end of support except for bug fixes (aka no new features). You won't get it in this Ubuntu version. Either switch to a rolling release distro, like Fedora, or wait for the next Ubuntu version. BTW, 14.04 is a Long Term Support version. They keep updating with bug corrections for a long time, but the software itself is very long. You may switch to the normal Ubuntu releases, like the most recent 15.04. Also, you can install the mainline kernel PPA to get just the most recent (but unstable for Ubuntu standards) kernel.

    2. Re:How do I upgrade? by bcdonadio · · Score: 1

      s/long/dated/g

    3. Re:How do I upgrade? by techno-vampire · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wrong. Ubuntu continues to roll out updates for everything, including the kernel, for every version it supports. You will continue to receive new kernels for Ubuntu 14.04 right up until it reaches End Of Life, just as you will with Fedora. (For Fedora, it's versions 21 and 22 that are currently supported.) Please learn what you're talking about before replying, instead of just guessing.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    4. Re:How do I upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Except that there is a kernel package built for every version.

      http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/

      Right now there is no stable version of 4.2.

      You can also go to kernel.org, download 4.2, make oldconfig your existing .config file (will take hours depending on how knowledgeable you are and how old a kernel your running), make, make modules_install, make install and try it out. At your own risk.

    5. Re:How do I upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      The 15.10 kernel will be backported to 14.04. The kernels for each release after an LTS (14.04 is LTS) is always backported. They are each supported for nine months, and the backported LTS kernel from 16.04 will eventually be supported for three years on 14.04.

    6. Re:How do I upgrade? by Kjella · · Score: 4, Informative

      Everything? No. Just the kernel and X. Also note that if you first upgrade to a non-LTS kernel you're only getting support on that until the next LTS kernel is out, if you want something you can leave untouched for a few years afterwards you'd better stick with the original kernel.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    7. Re:How do I upgrade? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Proof that being able to perform s/Windows/Linux/g on an assertion is not the same as being able to make a valid assertion.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    8. Re:How do I upgrade? by Jahf · · Score: 1

      Kernel is still a major gating factor in many cases, so while they "only" support kernel/X rolling updates, that's substantial and means the post above yours was correct-enough to be valid for the post it responded to.

      --
      It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
  3. Hey, interesting. Definitely anticipated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for posting!

  4. indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    the linux people whom number above 1000 doing this work are not ever usually thanked , and the reasons are more then just doing what they did , they force non linux os's to keep DOING....

    1. Re:indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "whom" is the object form. "the linux people" is the subject of this sentence; therefore, you want "who".

    2. Re: indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is true, as it also is for the visual envelope pushing of Microsoft and others too.

      Thank you all

    3. Re:indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually, "who" is part of a relative clause here, so its case depends on whether it's the subject or direct object of that clause, not on the subject of the sentence it modifies.

      So, "The Linux people whom we should thank" would be correct, even though "Linux people" is the subject of the sentence.

    4. Re: indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the only comment you have about that post? What about the lack of capitalization, the spaces before commas, the missing dash in 'non-linux', or the run-on sentence? Not a peep about 'then' instead of 'than'?

      You make for a terrible grammar nazi.

    5. Re:indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The Linux people whom we should thank".

      "The Linux people" is the object in that sentence: we should thank *them*. "We" is the subject.

      However, "the Linux people whom we should thank" as a whole can be the subject of another encompassing sentence.

    6. Re:indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Incorrect. "The Linux people" is the subject of the sentence, since you can remove the relative clause "whom we should thank" and it still retains its structure:

      "The Linux People doing this work are not ever usually thanked."

      In fact, if you remove the other clause that modifies the subject, "doing this work," you will see that the subject is "the Linux people" and the predicate is "are not ever usually thanked."

  5. slackers! by blogagog · · Score: 5, Funny

    Windows is up to like 9.x OSX is in the 10's Firefox is in the 40s! Chrome is probably in the hundreds by now. I dunno, I don't use them.

    Now, I'm no computer scientist, but I can tell if one number is bigger than another. C'mon you linux slackers - Make more editions. You've got a lot of catching up to do.

    1. Re:slackers! by alexhs · · Score: 0

      Windows is up to like 9.x

      Well, Microsoft is not counting like you.

      Now, I'm no computer scientist, but I can tell if one number is bigger than another.

      Can you tell if 7 is bigger than 95 ?

      --
      I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
    2. Re:slackers! by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      It used to be that Firefox used fractional version numbers for minor upgrades and/or bug fixes and only changed the integer part of the version for major changes. Now, unless it's a very minor bug fix, they release a "whole new version," as if they're trying to make their trivial changes look more important.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    3. Re:slackers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, zero (0) is the biggest number :-D evvah

    4. Re:slackers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Woosh!

    5. Re:slackers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you talking about? They release a new "major" version every 6 weeks, and as many "minor" versions as necessary to fix bugs in the interim. This is a problem with a rolling release model, not with the releases themselves. the kernel is doing the same damn thing, except that it has a three-version-number system and releases major releases less frequently.

    6. Re:slackers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The official Windows version number for Windows 95 was 4.0, 98 was 4.10 and Me was 4.90

  6. Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We're getting to the point where the Linux kernel itself is superb, but everything built on top of it is becoming utter shit. This is unfortunate, because the kernel alone is not very useful. The kernel's actual usefulness comes from it laying a solid foundation for the great things that could potentially be built upon it.

    Once above the kernel, things start getting pretty bleak. First we have systemd. Its ideological and architectural flaws are such that they cannot just be fixed. For example, you can't just apply some code changes and have binary logging start being useful. No, it's a broken concept, and thus any implementation of it is inherently broken as well. The same applies for pretty much everything else systemd does.

    Then we have the desktop environments. KDE isn't too bad, and there are some lightweight alternatives that a quasi-usable. But the former star of the Linux desktop environments, GNOME, has pretty much destroyed itself with its GNOME 3 effort. This is one of the most stunning failures ever seen when developing software. The user experience has been ruined in a way that many thought would not be possible. Yet it has happened.

    On top of all of that, we have software like Firefox. Like GNOME 3, its UI has been reworked in the stupidest ways possible, which has in turn destroyed its usability. Long-standing bugs and performance issues go unresolved while the UI gets worse and worse, and even ads have been injected into the browsing experience!

    So now we have a fantastic kernel, but a userland that's totally awful from its very bottom to its very top!

    This wouldn't even be a problem if we had some diversity among the major Linux distributions, but that has pretty much vanished, too. They're almost all using systemd by default. They're almost all using GNOME 3 by default. They're almost all using Firefox by default. The only ones that aren't, like Slackware and Gentoo, are rife with a different set of problems: they're goddamn impractical. The whole point of using a Linux distro is so that its maintainers do the work to integrate and compile everything, and provide a widely usable default configuration. Gentoo fucks up the compilation part to a large extent, and Slackware totally misses the boat when it comes to providing a usable system out of the box.

    The saddest part is that it wasn't always like this. While the kernel has typically been top-notch, the other software running on top of it used to be pretty good. There were numerous init systems, including sysvinit, that were better than systemd. The whole notion of "services management" wasn't even needed because such things become trivial when doing things the UNIX way. GNOME 2 was once a fantastic desktop environment. Firefox used to have amazing usability. Thankfully the kernel hasn't fallen victim to the mediocrity and destruction that has ruined so much of the software that runs on top of it. But this gets us back to the original problem: an excellent kernel is useless without an excellent userland.

    1. Re:Their work is being wasted. by chipschap · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The user experience has been ruined in a way that many thought would not be possible.

      Many thought not possible? Think: Windows 8. A failure far more stunning than Gnome 3, Unity, Firefox, or just about anything ever seen anywhere. Although it's apples and oranges, it makes systemd look stellar.

    2. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't forget the security aspect of things. Systemd is this large chunk of code that has network connectivity and is as close to kernel space as possible.

      Is it tested for security? No. Has it FIPS and Common Criteria testing? RedHat 6.x have, 7.x have not.

      Is it audited for security? We as admins and IT people have no assurance that the fact it listens and communicates on a network doesn't make it a big fat security hole, especially with edge cases.

      How good code is it? Nobody knows, as it hasn't been audited. It could be just as bad a code job as OpenSSL, but nobody knows.

      Is it better than modules? SVR4 has stood the test of time. /bin/su has been tested, vetted, and secure. Systemd has none of that, and hasn't even emerged into a long term version that is stable enough to certify for a LTS version of Linux.

      As an enterprise admin, I would say I really don't have much confidence in systemd, just because there has been no thorough testing and audit results. Couple that with the fact that the systemd of today is different from the systemd 2 weeks from now, and it is a platform too unstable for production work.

      systemd isn't bad. We just need something to show to auditors that it was programmed by people who know what they are doing, especially when it comes to real money at stake if there is an outage or a security breach.

    3. Re:Their work is being wasted. by mabu · · Score: 2

      I agree. But we should be celebrating good code where it is.

    4. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Although I'm a long time Linux user, including having used a number of distros that use systemd, I've also had to use Windows 8 a lot, on many different systems. I've never once had Windows 8 fail to boot properly due to a software issue. But on numerous occasions I have had Linux systems fail to boot due to various problems involving or affecting systemd. A boot failure is the worst kind of user experience failure that an operating system can suffer from: it inherently means that the OS is unusable!

    5. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Rest assured none of this is secure. Including the Linux kernel. Just grow Roses, have kids, raise Geese or something.

      Stop thinking that ANY commercial (FOSS or not) thing is "secure". That is not what our rulers want.

      "Security" to them is the ability to look at ANY harddisk. Any time it is powered on and connected.

    6. Re:Their work is being wasted. by GNious · · Score: 4, Funny

      We're getting to the point where the Linux kernel itself is superb, but everything built on top of it is becoming utter shit.

      Don't worry - in one of the upcoming Systemd releases, the Linux kernel will finally be 100% replaced.

    7. Re:Their work is being wasted. by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      and Slackware totally misses the boat when it comes to providing a usable system out of the box.

      Slackware works great for me lol, and I'd be interested in hearing what your problems are with Gentoo's packaging.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    8. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And stop thinking anything conforming to FIPS is secure. It requires fully deterministic PRNGs (and/or CPRNGs) with a "random" seed, often baked in the factory, instead of real TRNG, as well as a lot of other crap that actually weakens security when compared with the state-of-the-art.

    9. Re:Their work is being wasted. by iggymanz · · Score: 0

      No, GNOME3 and Unity pretty much take the cake for sucky UI, the one on Windows 8 a distant third in suckiness

    10. Re:Their work is being wasted. by antdude · · Score: 1

      It's not just Linux. Look at Mac OS X, Windows, softwares, games, etc. What's up with that? I really miss the old computing days. :(

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    11. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      >
      > ... like Slackware and Gentoo, are rife with a different set of problems: they're goddamn impractical ...
      > Gentoo fucks up the compilation part to a large extent, and Slackware totally misses the boat when
      > it comes to providing a usable system out of the box
      >

      Please do not elevate your personal beliefs and experiences to the level of universal law.

      I have been using Gentoo for a considerable period of time and for me, and I am sure for many others as well, it has proven to be highly functional, efficient, and trouble free. Since Gentoo still offers the user maximum choice it is probably the only recommended Linux distribtion in this new age of (systemd) conformity.

    12. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Harlequin80 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Sorry I could disagree with you more.

      When it comes to a desktop environment I'm not really sure why anyone gives a toss about Systemd. Seriously how often are you debugging at such a low level on your desktop. I can understand some objection in server management but even then I don't get the religious hatred over it.

      As for gnome 3. It sucked. But got and have a look at cinnamon on Linux Mint. It is polished, stable and familiar. Best desktop environment I have ever used.

      As for the browser choices. Not really something that is distribution or even linux specific. Unless you are arguing safari or IE / Edge is better?

    13. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slackware worked great for me when I was on the cutting edge, always downloading and compiling the latest kernel or libc. Now that I don't care so much about that, my system is full of old software, probably with more than a few 'issues'. If only I could apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade.

    14. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lock in, they want xbox/mobile ecosystems on the desktop.. they yearn for it. frothing at the mouths.

    15. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're getting to the point where the Linux kernel itself is superb, but everything built on top of it is becoming utter shit.

      Don't worry - in one of the upcoming Systemd releases, the Linux kernel will finally be 100% replaced.

      rotflmao

    16. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      > Gentoo fucks up the compilation part to a large extent...

      Eh? The deal with Gentoo has *always* been that you compile the packages yourself. If you have more than one system, you easily can use one of them to package the compiled result into a package that can be installed on all of the others. There are also Gentoo derivatives (like Sabayon) that do the compilation for you.

    17. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "A boot failure is the worst kind of user experience failure that an operating system can suffer from"

      DO NOT equate a failing with SystemD to a failing with GNU/Linux.

      Can't anyone else see this is exactly how the COTS OS manufacturers have planned to bring down FOSS?

    18. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Kjella · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We're getting to the point where the Linux kernel itself is superb, but everything built on top of it is becoming utter shit. This is unfortunate, because the kernel alone is not very useful. The kernel's actual usefulness comes from it laying a solid foundation for the great things that could potentially be built upon it.

      There was a billion Android devices shipped last year. It has 98% market share on the TOP500 supercomputer list. About 92% of Amazon's EC2 cloud servers run some form of Linux. Maybe we'll still be waiting for YotLD ten years from now, but I don't think anything could reverse that momentum. The entire FreeBSD ports tree had in Q1 2015 a bit less than 7000 commits from 163 developers, there's a ton of work missing to reach feature parity with the Linux kernel and nobody complained about it in the first place, I think there already was a "BSD-like" init system called OpenRC and it'd probably be less work to finish that than to write all the bits that are missing from Linux. Either way the problem is how many packages you must maintain that don't support your init system upstream.

      Personally I wish Google would take a play from the Microsoft playbook and introduce the Android desktop, then again at this point it might be seen as admitting Microsoft has a point about one device from smartphones to tablets to laptops to desktops. Then again their Chromebooks are very successful, unfortunately really since they got you very hooked up to the mothership.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    19. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Freebsd ports tree is not the freebsd kernel, it is just a bunch of scripts to download, patch and build common applications to run in BSD userland. Roughly equivalent to yum, dnf or apt-get.

    20. Re:Their work is being wasted. by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      If only I could apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade.

      Use slapt-get

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    21. Re: Their work is being wasted. by corychristison · · Score: 1, Informative

      Agreed.

      Personally I am using Funtoo, but same thing in many ways.

      If you don't like the package management system of a particular distro, use something else. Choice is great. That is specifically why I use funtoo, I can choose things in such a finely granulated way it is almost mind boggling.

      Gentoo/Funtoo works great for me in various systems (laptop, workstation, htpc).

      For my HTPC I actually build it in a chroot on my workstation, and rsync/cp the useful parts to the device. Full blown media center in ~3GB on a fast, small SSD. Try doing that with Ubuntu.

      *walks away laughing maniacally*

    22. Re:Their work is being wasted. by chmod+a+x+mojo · · Score: 1

      Umm, no.

      Windows 8 - all you need to do is install classic shell and it is as usable as Windows 7 was.

      Gnome3 - Get a lobotomy and you can maybe be happy using it, but it still isn't anywhere near as efficient as Gnome2 was ( nor anywhere near as configurable as KDE ). Unity was made as an experiment to see how far users can be tortured before lobotomizing themselves and going to Gnome3...

      --
      To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
    23. Re:Their work is being wasted. by buchner.johannes · · Score: 2

      "Gentoo fucks up the compilation part to a large extent" ... no it doesn't. It is true though that Gentoo upgrades sometimes need attention for resolving blocks. But in return you get a bleeding-edge, super-stable, polished system. It is extremely rare to see compilation errors, and they are usually fixed within days. Gentoo is a big community...

      As for GNOME 3, I use it and I like it. It gets notifications out of the way until I have time and focus to attend to them. It does everything I need it to, it is consistently designed and behaves smoothly.

      I don't get all the GNOME3 hate. I guess you want something that behaves like Windows 95-2000, but configurable. Great, enjoy KDE, GNOME 2, Xfce or whatever GNOME fork. But not all of us want to relive that time forever.

      PS: KDE's Akonadi is a major screw-up.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    24. Re: Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, slackpkg. It ships with slackware, works great.

    25. Re: Their work is being wasted. by dilvish_the_damned · · Score: 1

      I doubt the poster meant to imply that there was some perfect security involved. I believe the poster just meant that it had not been audited, tested, or fixed to a reasonably acceptable level of security. Alluding to the idea that it does not matter in this core networked service because nothing is secure is counter productive and a bit clueless.
      Oh wait, you didn't code for it did you? In that case: The architecture sucks and the implementation took pictures because it likes it like that. Sucky i mean.

      --
      I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
    26. Re: Their work is being wasted. by dilvish_the_damned · · Score: 2

      Their users are happier than they were before.
      And the rest of them left.

      --
      I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
    27. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Zeio · · Score: 2

      One thing we can look to is that Linux can be put with any user land. Linux can be used in many places. Look at Android, if the init wars has you down fork and roll, or spork it like NextBSD.

      The coolest thing I've see in Linux 4.2 is eBPF accompanied by BCC,

      Check it out - they are doing dtrace like things with Linux with it:

      http://www.brendangregg.com/blog/2015-05-15/ebpf-one-small-step.html

      - You can do IO virtualization
      - All network IO can be handled by in-kernel byte code generated by bcc (BPF COMPILER COLLECTION).
      - All storage IO can be watched - you can create histograms of slow and face places on disks, raid array, even ceph clusters.
      - You can basically implement dtrace for Linux using eBPF to do so.

      Basically eBPF has a guaranteed non-looping in kernel general purpose VM.

      I think this is an example of a quiet revolution and it started with Linux 4.2

      --
      Legalize the constitution. Think for yourself question authority.
    28. Re:Their work is being wasted. by fnj · · Score: 0

      Has it FIPS and Common Criteria testing? RedHat 6.x have, 7.x have not.

      Red Hat 6.0 Hedwig was a 1999 release. Red Hat 7.0 Guinness was a 2000 release. I well remember buying them each shrink wrapped from a big box store, complete with voluminous paper manuals.

      Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6.0 Santiago was 2010, and RHEL 7.0 Maipo was 2014. I assume these are what you are referring to. If you are referring to RHEL, always call it that; Red Hat Enterprise Linux, or RHEL for short. Talking about a Red Hat version is talking about old history before the split into Fedora and RHEL.

      I have done a lot of work with RHEL 6 and I highly respect it. I don't regard RHEL 7 as worth a bucket of warm spit in comparison due to some shitty decisions, notably the adoption of GNOME 3 and systemd.

    29. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      For the record, IE runs normally under wine. If somebody is really pining for it.

      Gnome 3 drove me back to xfce. I'd used it briefly over a decade ago. The other guys made me sorry I ever left!

    30. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mmmmmmm slackware mmmmm also: devuan looks promising, otherwise i mostly agree. DICE still blows.

    31. Re:Their work is being wasted. by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 2

      No, GNOME3 and Unity pretty much take the cake for sucky UI, the one on Windows 8 a distant third in suckiness.

      Have you actually used Win8? I know there are all sorts of opinions on Unity (particularly earlier versions), but I can take J.Random user (with previous computer experience) and sit them down in front of a Unity desktop and they can use it. Sit them down in front of Win8 and they're completely lost, the interface is so alien that they don't know what to do any more (that's from actual experience with various users).

      It really is hard to think of a desktop/laptop UI that's worse than the Win8 one, it sort of defines the extreme end of a scale that goes from, for argument's sake, Snow Leopard at 9.5 (can't think of a 10 really) to Win8 at 0. I'd put Unity at maybe a 3 or 4.

    32. Re:Their work is being wasted. by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      We're getting to the point where the Linux kernel itself is superb, but everything built on top of it is becoming utter shit.

      Don't worry - in one of the upcoming Systemd releases, the Linux kernel will finally be 100% replaced.

      I've always wondered when they're finally going to rename it everythingd. The closest equivalent I can think of is svchost.exe, which is at about the same level as everythingd.

    33. Re:Their work is being wasted. by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 0

      There was a billion Android devices shipped last year. It has 98% market share on the TOP500 supercomputer list.

      An Android-based supercomputer? What does it run on, a palletload of tablets? And who would want to run 10,000 parallel instances of Candy Crush? Enquiring minds want to know...

    34. Re:Their work is being wasted. by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The entire FreeBSD ports tree had in Q1 2015 a bit less than 7000 commits from 163 developers

      That's because they have a small, focused developer group, not a global clusterfsck where everyone gets to stick their dick in.

      (Yeah, I know, this'll get modded flamebait, but I'm trying to make a serious point, a small focused group typically does a much better job than a Monglian horde).

    35. Re:Their work is being wasted. by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      Sure, using 8 with a few hacks to make it usable. This doesn't change the fact that the interface on windows 8+ needs a lot of patching to make usable on a desktop...not unlike some linux distros.

    36. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and Slackware totally misses the boat when it comes to providing a usable system out of the box.

      Slackware works great for me lol

      Yeah, "lol" -- fucking hilarious.

      Laugh out fucking loud, you retard.

    37. Re:Their work is being wasted. by alantus · · Score: 0

      I understand why people hate systemd, it is like a metastasized and contagious cancer that affects all internal systems and also spreads to new distributions.
      But there are still a few that haven't succumbed yet.

      Being mostly a KDE user, I don't know why everybody hates GNOME 2, can anybody explain this?

      KDE has problems, one of which is the disconnection between developers and the rest of the community. The community wasn't happy about the whole "semantic desktop" thing pushed down our throats, but the developers, in complete denial, (of course, they always know better) disregarded this.

      This is an interesting reading (read the comments).

    38. Re: Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows 8 isn't worse just different. It's useful on smaller screens and touch screens. If you sit anyone with half a brain in front of it for the first time, they will start to prod and click and understand it. If they discover or are told how to switch to the classic interface and they see how similar it is to previous versions of Windows and that the tiled interface is almost entirely optional, they will be happy.

      I use Windows 8.1 and KDE nearly every day and Windows is faster, more stable, more consistent and easier to use. I gave up using Gnome after many years when they moved the menus half a large screen away. Windows 10 so far has adopted some of the simplification of Windows 8's tiled interface, which is unwelcome.

    39. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      Systemd and GNOME3 have taken over. Their users are happier than they were before.

      Yes, all 5 of them.

    40. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      That's just sad. Amongst other things, Seigo cannot seem to fathom why some of us might not care to waste resources on things we don't don't want or need, instead going all cutesy about we must be obsessives.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    41. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      you'd best use Slack with motif as your gui.

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    42. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Barsteward · · Score: 1, Troll

      i've never had a boot failure with systemd. Just as well you posted as AC with dreamt up anecdotes

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    43. Re:Their work is being wasted. by horza · · Score: 1

      Please post those hacks. I bought a Miix3 as I only wanted it for browsing, and I already want to throw it in the bin as Microsoft Windows 8 is unusable. At the moment it is a paperweight until Linux can be ported onto it.

      Phillip.

    44. Re:Their work is being wasted. by johnw · · Score: 3, Informative

      Being mostly a KDE user, I don't know why everybody hates GNOME 2, can anybody explain this?

      It's Gnome 3 that gave rise to a lot of bile, not Gnome 2. Gnome 2 on the whole was pretty popular.

      Gnome 3 has actually come on a long way too. Its big problem when it first appeared was that it removed lots of important functionality, because the developers thought that they knew better than the users, and although the users wanted them, the developers were of the opinion that they *shouldn't* want them. Suddenly all the things that made your desktop a constructive work environment were taken away, and to begin with at least, complaints were ignored.

      Over time though it has got better, and there are features of it which I now really miss when I'm using other desktop environments. There a still some really stupid design decisions, and bits that work worse than in earlier versions, but it's got back to being usable.

      A few examples of remaining irritants in Gnome 3:

      * If you suspend your laptop, then resume, the network manager prompts you to ask whether you want to reconnect to the WiFi point which you were using before. Why? It doesn't prompt you at boot, just after a resume. Yes, of course I want to carry on using the WiFi I was using a moment ago.
      * By default, if you drag a window to the top of the screen it causes the window to be maximised. Yes, I know they copied this from some other desktop, but it doesn't make it any less idiotic. It's overloading a gesture to do something different, and leaving you no way to do the old thing which the gesture used to do. It doesn't even make it any easier to maximise a window, because you could always double click on the title bar to achieve the same thing. It does however mean that if you want a number of tall windows (making best use of your large monitor) you have to jump through hoops to achieve what should be easy.

      Doubtless others can provide lots of other examples.

    45. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It gets old seeing the same trope about Gnome 3. I love the damn DE. If you don't, you have like 10 other viable, well known alternatives. Get the f*** over it.

    46. Re:Their work is being wasted. by devent · · Score: 0

      Utter BS. The user land of Linux gets better and better. I remember the time about 14 years ego when I had to put some obscure data of my monitor in the Xorg.conf to get any graphic output, and when I could only have sound from one application. PulseAudio, KDE and Gnome all improved my experience of Linux, and now systemd which also improves my experience. For example, to add the Emacs-Daemon I just had to put a 14 lines systemd-service file in .local/share/systemd/user/emacsd.service and run systemctl --user enable emacsd, without root privileges.

      Just look what a mess Sysvinit scripts are for the same task:
      http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs...
      For the same task in systemd for Sysvinit I need an over 150 lines bash script, root privileges, and the Sysvinit have several bugs that needs to be fixed. And for what? Just to start a user daemon.

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    47. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ClassicShell is just one click away to make it usable. With GNOME3 you need a dozen of extensions, to the point even the developers had to embed some of them.

    48. Re:Their work is being wasted. by buchner.johannes · · Score: 1

      * If you suspend your laptop, then resume, the network manager prompts you to ask whether you want to reconnect to the WiFi point which you were using before. Why? It doesn't prompt you at boot, just after a resume. Yes, of course I want to carry on using the WiFi I was using a moment ago.

      I have never had that problem. Must be a problem with your configuration? File a bug or ask on IRC.

      * By default, if you drag a window to the top of the screen it causes the window to be maximised. Yes, I know they copied this from some other desktop, but it doesn't make it any less idiotic. It's overloading a gesture to do something different, and leaving you no way to do the old thing which the gesture used to do. It doesn't even make it any easier to maximise a window, because you could always double click on the title bar to achieve the same thing. It does however mean that if you want a number of tall windows (making best use of your large monitor) you have to jump through hoops to achieve what should be easy.

      Doubtless others can provide lots of other examples.

      I always use Super (aka Windows-Key) + Click + Drag to move the window around. Then you don't have to grab the top of the window, it works on the entire are. Also try Super + Rightclick for resizing. Works on almost all window managers.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    49. Re:Their work is being wasted. by davros74 · · Score: 1

      The day when Slackware picks up systemd is probably when I throw in the towel and just switch to MacOSX or FreeBSD.

      Seriously though, I would like to know what is unusable out of the box in Slackware? Granted, I appreciate it's not the most new-user friendly, but I wouldn't consider it unusable. In my opinion it is the best option for those that just want "plain ol' Linux", and know or want to learn the nuts and bolts about linux (it is easy to understand the entire boot process and read every line of the init scripts - it is not bloated). I also appreciate the simple package management system, combined with slackbuilds.org, which makes downloading/upgrading custom packages as simple as using tar and editing a single build script. Slackware also handles 32-bit and 64-bit very cleanly using AlienBob's stuff.

      Having been a Linux user since 1994, I still prefer Slackware because I know how it works, how it boots, how to build packages, and it's the about the closest thing to vanilla kernel and vanilla packages as you can get and still have the advantages of a distro.

    50. Re:Their work is being wasted. by davros74 · · Score: 0

      My apologies, phantomfive, I meant to reply to the AC's original post, not yours.

    51. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's because it's governed by a community, that can't recognize damn sense when it's presented to them. I assume Gnome 3 Classic is beneath contempt?

    52. Re:Their work is being wasted. by chipschap · · Score: 1

      I'll stay with Gnome 2 on Linux Mint. No problems at all. That's the nice thing about Linux, there are choices[1]. If you don't like Gnome 3 or Unity (understandably so) there's still Gnome 2, and KDE, and Xfce, and so on.

      For the record, I did install classic shell on Windows 8.1 and it is better with it than without it, but it's still terrible in terms of usability compared to Windows XP or Windows 7. Or Gnome 2.

      [1] Yes, I know, someone is going to say the all those choices are a problem for Linux going mainstream. But Linux isn't ever going really mainstream; I don't pretend otherwise. Microsoft and Apple are simply too big and powerful to displace. That's why (as someone posted above) Windows 8 has a big market share compared to Linux. It certainly isn't because it wins on merit; it's because it has powerful market forces behind it.

    53. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Bengie · · Score: 1

      dtrace and a flame-graph is incredibly useful. I can't wait for Linux to be able to do the same.

    54. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #!/bin/bash
      case "$1" in
              start) /usr/bin/emacs --daemon ;;
              stop) /usr/bin/emacsclient --eval "(kill-emacs)" ;;
              restart) /usr/bin/emacsclient --eval "(kill-emacs)" /usr/bin/emacs --daemon ;;
      esac
      #EOF

      Oh yeah, init scripts have to be way harder and more complex as you can tell.

    55. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Gnome was never the star of the Linux environments, it was always a conglomeration of marginally functional half measures kept on life support by cynical Red Hat strategists and conservative Debian maintainers. Gnome only ever had one reason to exist: QT was not open source but was winning the race to catch up with Microsoft and Apple in desktop functionality. We would have all been better served if the entire Gnome project had been retired after forcing QT into full open source.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    56. Re: Their work is being wasted. by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Windows 8 isn't worse just different.

      Different in an in your face, take or leave it way. Which is worse when the central feature of a modern desktop is to stay out of your face and let you get your work done.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    57. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Classic Shell.

      Google it.

    58. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Then we have the desktop environments. KDE isn't too bad, and there are some lightweight alternatives that a quasi-usable. But the former star of the Linux desktop environments, GNOME, has pretty much destroyed itself with its GNOME 3 effort. This is one of the most stunning failures ever seen when developing software. The user experience has been ruined in a way that many thought would not be possible. Yet it has happened.

      See, this illustrates a big problem. I guess it's a problem with human nature, I'm not sure exactly, but it's a big problem somewhere.

      You point out a big problem (and I agree, Gnome3 is a big problem; it sucks. The user experience is awful, just as you say). Then you even mention a solution: KDE. KDE isn't perfect, but it isn't too bad, just like you say. Personally, I like it, at least better than anything else I've ever used. I wish they hadn't wasted so much effort on that "semantic desktop" crap with Nepomuk etc., but otherwise it works well and lets me configure it to my heart's delight. It's reasonably fast on my older hardware and does everything I need to do. I constantly read people complaining about some mis-feature or missing feature in Gnome3, and that thing is always not a problem in KDE, either because it's easily configurable (without having to download some extension) or just isn't architected that way.

      But for some reason, no one wants to switch to KDE. They just gripe about Gnome3. And many of the larger distros keep pushing Gnome3 for some odd reason (Fedora and RHEL are the most notable examples, but Debian pushes it now too). It's utterly baffling. I thought Linux was supposed to be all about giving users choice and being hacker-friendly. Gnome3 is the opposite of that; it's made with the same philosophy behind the MacOSX UI. Heck, I think even Macs are more configurable than Gnome3.

      and even ads have been injected into the browsing experience!

      Now you'll have to provide a citation for that one. I'm always using whatever the latest FF version in the Mint repos is, and I haven't seen any ads. And it's a lot faster and more memory-efficient than Chromium, which I've also spent plenty of time with. I'm no fan of the new UI, but the only time I really see that is when I click on the configuration button, which isn't often.

    59. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, this "choice" you talk about is something that frequently doesn't exist.

      I use Win7, Win8.1, IE, and Gnome3 all the time. I hate them all (Win7 the least). I wish I could change to KDE instead of Gnome3, or Cinnamon, or anything else really. But I can't, I don't get to choose my Linux desktop at work. Same with Windows and IE. I'm not allowed to use anything besides IE10 for web browsing, and it's horrible (especially because so many sites are completely broken on it). I'd love to change to Firefox, but that's not allowed. Luckily I don't have to use the Win8.1 computer very often, that one really makes me want to pull my hair out. Holy shit, that thing is horrible. And for the people saying "you just need to install [3rd party software] on it", that's not allowed.

      At home, I don't have any of these problems. I use Linux Mint with KDE and Firefox, and I'm happy. If Mint goes down the tubes for some reason and I get sick of it, I can change to something else at will, perhaps Arch. I can't do that at work.

    60. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try adding a NFS mount line to fstab which points to a server which is not always online.

    61. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      depends on their level of paranoia I'd say, maybe you should speak to a therapist...

    62. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you tried using Windows 7?

      It is even worse.

      I'm pretty sure my next computer is going to be a mac. All PCs have become crap, they stop working in a year ot two. And the operating systems have not improved since 2000, they only get worse and worse.

      Bloatware was invented by Microsoft, thanks to Bill Gates. He forces you to buyhis new operating systems even though they provide no new value to the customer. They just want you to change to make some buck. Unfortunately Linux is doing exactly the same thing. Just move on to the world of uselessness.

      I wonder what the GNU creator thinks about this.

    63. Re: Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If systemd bothers you, MacOSX's launchd won't feel any better.

    64. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Bleeding Edge part is not so accurate, unfortunately.

    65. Re: Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't mind a startup system that does its job, then gets out of my way.

      Systemd neither does its job, nor gets out of my way once it's done.

    66. Re: Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would have to agree that GNOME 3, Cinnamon and the like are utter shit.

      GNOME 3 and it's ilk lock up on me at least 3 times a week when trying to unlock the workspace, which requires I reach for the power button.

      Can't very well report the issue with a stack trace, etc. when the system locks up. Plus, even if I were able to provide a stack trace or core dump, I can't due to work that involves ITAR and EAR controled info.

    67. Re:Their work is being wasted. by i.kazmi · · Score: 1

      Forget adding a server, try adding an NTFS mount line to fstab on a dual booting setup, hard reboot from windows (8.1 in my case) and watch systemd drop you to a shell with root privileges with no hints on what's gone wrong. Compare that to upstart which actually tells you exactly what's gone wrong and gives you an option to skip mounting the offending drive

    68. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Harlequin80 · · Score: 1

      Wow I'm impressed! Over the past couple of days I have been modded Troll / Off topic and Insightful in almost equal measures!

    69. Re:Their work is being wasted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haha, the systemd just keeps surprising. After some random "upgrade" to it, systemd did that suddenly for my /boot/EFI partition. The bastard just stopped boot process without any indication what went wrong, but a manual "mount -u" would still work.

  7. iKernel by fluffernutter · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is the kernel wrapped in glass or metal? Otherwise it will not meet my requirements.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  8. Ie, catching up to windows 2000 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A couple of decades later.

    1. Re:Ie, catching up to windows 2000 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you posting this from your 64-bit ARM machine running Winshit 2000 on an encrypted SSD?
      If not then kindly bugger off right now.

  9. Increasingly irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    With the growing number of distros embracing systemd and systemd's continued march to get its tentacles deeper and deeper into the dependency tree such that it becomes a de-facto "requirement" (and once it's in your house it stays forever, and the next update includes who knows what), is Linux the kernel on its way out? I don't understand why Linus is not more concerned about this than he seems to indicate. People are ditching the system his kernel powers (and therefore his kernel) because of this. At the moment there are enough people still running older systems (e.g., Ubuntu 12.04LTS, 14.04LTS (and variants)) that it's not quite at critical mass yet, but the time will come soon enough that those of us still hanging out on those systems will have to vote one way or another with our feet. I don't want that, but it seems like it's going to happen.

    1. Re: Increasingly irrelevant by Zeromous · · Score: 1

      Surprisingly on fleek old man

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
    2. Re: Increasingly irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      You anti systemd folks are boring. You're like rue cow troll but less even funny. You blab about binary logging as if it is a plague when it's more like structured syslog. Ignore the index files, replace the fields delimiters with tabs and records delimiters with new lines and your back with text. But omfg binary logging is evil

    3. Re: Increasingly irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pro-systemd linus' woman is like cow.

    4. Re:Increasingly irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give up on computer security (which you're admittedly on point about), and focus on social lost causes like marriage instead? Are you nuts?!

    5. Re:Increasingly irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are still alternatives, use them or send them money, systemd has people working on it fulltime thanks to RH.

    6. Re:Increasingly irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Marry little girls.

      God allows it.

  10. Is the Linux kernel on its way out .. by nickweller · · Score: 0, Troll

    @Anonymous Coward: "With the growing number of distros embracing systemd .. is Linux the kernel on its way out?"

    Has systemd now become the Benghazi of the computing world?

    1. Re:Is the Linux kernel on its way out .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2toVPMHRo8M

    2. Re:Is the Linux kernel on its way out .. by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Best comment evah - +1000 insightful.

      And systemd trolls mark it troll.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    3. Re:Is the Linux kernel on its way out .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no just the Whine-ux world

  11. v4.2 lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft was on version 2000 15 YEARS AGO!!!! AT this rate the Linux will never catch up.

    1. Re:v4.2 lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You = awesome, keep up the good work.

    2. Re:v4.2 lol by ichthus · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but now they've regressed back to 10. So, at this rate, Linux will catch up in 3... 2... 1...

      --
      sig: sauer
    3. Re:v4.2 lol by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      no, its regressed to 2 not 10.

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
  12. Roll it all back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not roll it all back to earlier versions?
    The source is there, atleast in debian src debs.

    We need a new (or old) distro that does this.

    Maybe start with an old distro, update the kernel, add grsec, update the daemons.

  13. ROLL IT ALL BACK YOU FUCKING CUCKS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not roll it all back to earlier versions?
    The source is there, atleast in debian src debs.

    We need a new (or old) distro that does this.

    Maybe start with an old distro, update the kernel, add grsec, update the daemons.

    X

  14. Linus Torvalds dont think Linux is superb! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...We're getting to the point where the Linux kernel itself is superb, but everything built on top of it is becoming utter shit...."

    Well, what do you say about Linus Torvalds then? He has on numerous occasions said that Linux is less than optimal?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Linux#Kernel_criticisms

  15. Fork 'em all.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When's the Torvold distro going to be created/announced?

  16. mmmhhhh... spinlocks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    spinlocks? what is this? 1999?

    Everybody knows event driven and non blocking synchronization are much better...

    Microsoft abandoned spinlocks in 2000... don't tell me Linux doesn't know about this...