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Report: Google Will Return To China

Posted by Soulskill on from the part-2-the-revenge dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Google famously withdrew from mainland China in 2010 after fending off a series of cyberattacks from local sources. Now, according to a (paywalled) report from The Information, the company is working on plans to return. "As part of the deal Google is looking to strike, Google would follow the country's laws and block apps that the government objects to, one person told The Information." They're also seeking approval for a Chinese version of Google Play.

50 of 82 comments (clear)

  1. Folding@Home by sims+2 · · Score: 3, Funny

    So I guess we can say google is Folding@Home?

    Seriously though the blockade should stand.

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    1. Re:Folding@Home by Tokolosh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Is it evil to kowtow to evil?

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    2. Re:Folding@Home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That google slogan of "dont' be evil" has been nothing but a scam.

    3. Re:Folding@Home by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seriously though the blockade should stand.

      Leaving China was a mistake. Google's departure accomplished nothing. Google should be in China, to offer people an alternative, even if it is imperfect.

    4. Re:Folding@Home by sims+2 · · Score: 1

      Personally I felt they were better off using any one of the many ways to access the uncensored google from china. Which they had to do if they wanted to use google.

      Now they will have the choice between Crippled engine A and Govt run index B.

      They are probably going to use the crippled engine now even if they had a way around before just because its easier.

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    5. Re:Folding@Home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nah, nah, Google stands by what it says. They just never publicized the full motto:
      "Don't be evil, we're watching you."

    6. Re:Folding@Home by sims+2 · · Score: 1

      Yeah I worried about that when it happened.
      I am actually really surprised they still have a search engine.

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      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    7. Re:Folding@Home by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Now they will have the choice between Crippled engine A and Govt run index B.

      They can still access Google outside China by using a VPN. Since porn is censored in China, nearly every post-pubescent male already has access to a working VPN.

    8. Re:Folding@Home by trabby · · Score: 1

      The funny thing about China is although they have workarounds for much of the government censorship is that they don't bother.

      It has to do with internal communication between citizens, they don't go on Facebook not because they can't but because none of their network is there.

      They only work around the censorship when needed for relations with other countries.

      Same goes for using Google services. Google needs a presence there to get some mind share from the populace, even if it is heavily censored.

    9. Re:Folding@Home by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Pretty much.

      Seriously, if I wanted to run an authoritarian regime restricting internet content, there are certain things that would be absolutely left unblocked, namely porn and cat memes/videos.

    10. Re:Folding@Home by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      They can still access Google outside China by using a VPN.

      We've got faculty who regularly travel to China - their access to our university VPN service is routinely interfered with.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    11. Re:Folding@Home by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      So I guess we can say google is Folding@Home?

      It didn't get a lot of press, but Google folded to China a couple years ago.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    12. Re:Folding@Home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Exactly what I was thinking. They're "profit above all else" these days and that's pretty fucking evil.

    13. Re:Folding@Home by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We've got faculty who regularly travel to China - their access to our university VPN service is routinely interfered with.

      They should ask some teenage boys for help. It also makes a huge difference where they are in China. Censorship is very heavy in Beijing, but much lighter in Shanghai and even lighter in smaller cities. It is heavy in Tibet, but much lighter in Xinjiang. That is because Westerners care about the Tibetans because Brad Pitt and Richard Gere made movies about them. But Westerners don't give a crap about the Uighurs.

    14. Re:Folding@Home by fulldecent · · Score: 2

      Yes, China beat the network effect problem by:

          1. Jumping in early
          2. Ruthlessly blocking competition

      --

      -- I was raised on the command line, bitch

    15. Re:Folding@Home by linuxrocks123 · · Score: 2

      Are you sure? I've been to China multiple times. Some observations:
      - OpenVPN connections are killed at the handshake. Workaround is hide the handshake; there are multiple ways to do this.
      - SSH (allows tunneling) worked fine when I was there this summer. One time, in 2014, it seemed to degrade over time. But this probably was just been my imagination, because of the following:

      CHINA'S INTERNATIONAL PEERING SUCKS ASS. It doesn't matter if you have a T1 at home: international connections are going to be slow as molasses. A lot of people say China "degrades VPNs", but my observation is more that the country just has bad peering to other countries. You can get fast domestic Internet access, but international sites and servers -- the ones that aren't blocked -- are going to be slow and unreliable, because the upstream peering is running at something like 200% capacity, and your packets are going to get frequently dropped.

      Now, an interesting question is whether their international peering sucks on purpose as an extension of their censorship. Maybe, maybe not. Whatever the case, you can get an uncensored proxy out very easily, but expect some slowness and unpleasantness. Not because they're using some super-duper magic proxy-degrading technology, though. That's probably not happening. If they catch you, they'll probably just cut you off, not slow you down. What's probably happening is that China's international peering sucks, and you're running into the congestion.

      --
      vi ~/.emacs # I'm probably going to Hell for this.
    16. Re:Folding@Home by Hasaf · · Score: 1

      As is so often said, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. There are few places that phrase is as true as it is in Xinjiang.

    17. Re:Folding@Home by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Kind of important is the headline is misleading and factually incorrect. It states that Google will return to China. If the summary is accurate they are researching returning to China and have not yet concluded that this is their definite course of action. A more accurate headline would be that Google is considering a return to China.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    18. Re:Folding@Home by Baki · · Score: 1

      The problem is that some groups of freedom fighters throw bombs around and don't seem to care for accidental bystanders becoming victim.
      I guess their theology makes everyone 'guilty'.
      It is mostly people of a certain religion displaying this type of behaviour.
      In the eyes of the vast majority, that makes them terrorists, no matter if their goals are justified, their means are not.

  2. Somebody had to sell Hitler the ovens by John+Jorsett · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I guess it's too much to expect any company, even the "do no evil" one, to stand up for principle when there's so much money at stake.

    1. Re:Somebody had to sell Hitler the ovens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Godwin's law struck pretty fast on this one.

    2. Re:Somebody had to sell Hitler the ovens by swillden · · Score: 1

      I guess it's too much to expect any company, even the "do no evil" one, to stand up for principle when there's so much money at stake.

      Especially when it's doing absolutely no good. It made sense for Google to stand up to China when it appeared that there was a good chance they could win. But China won. The absence of Google's services did not cause the Chinese people to demand it, and the Great Firewall was successful at blocking and degrading Google's services enough that people largely don't bother. VPN services exist, but the Firewall makes them unreliable and short-lived solutions, so the Chinese just don't use Google much. And those who are doing all of the work to get around the Firewall are those who will do that work to get to uncensored search services anyway.

      So, money aside (not that Google is ignoring the money), there's really nothing to be achieved by staying out of China, and at least some possibility of achieving something by being in China.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    3. Re:Somebody had to sell Hitler the ovens by Chris+Graham · · Score: 1

      Yes there is something to be achieved. Clearly sticking to your principles prevents an apathetic drift to amorality, and sets an example for others to measure against. That is very valuable.

    4. Re:Somebody had to sell Hitler the ovens by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but there are plenty of cases in history where people stuck to their principles... right into the grave...

      Principles only matter if you have a chance to continue to use them and show them off, otherwise they aren't worth a hill of beans...

  3. Today's doodle links to Godwin by paiute · · Score: 2

    Google also announced that they were taking their new time machine back a few years to get into the German market, promising Mr. Hitler that they would block any Jewish-related content.

    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    1. Re:Today's doodle links to Godwin by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      How has this article been Godwin'd 3 times in the first 20 posts!

  4. Well jeeze! C'mon... by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    Who is going to turn down that money? Please! Their little stunt made them look like idiots. Look, business is business, it's not a big stretch to *Orders are orders*..

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:Well jeeze! C'mon... by bob_super · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "money has no smell" Old proverb

    2. Re:Well jeeze! C'mon... by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      It smells like blood, and bad coke...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:Well jeeze! C'mon... by sims+2 · · Score: 2

      Lets say you manufacture a universal translator and you want to sell it in another country they already have a local manufacturer that produces a local version that happens to only support chinese simplified to chinese traditional and back.

      Now to sell your product in their country they require you to cripple your translator that works with any language to only make fart noises unless its chinese simplified to chinese traditional or vice versa.

      On one hand it opens you up to a large underserved market.
      On the other hand manufacturing the inferior product would greatly damage your brand.

      What would you choose?

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    4. Re:Well jeeze! C'mon... by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      What would you choose?

      Whichever comes out mathematically ahead. I wouldn't have to 'choose' anything.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    5. Re:Well jeeze! C'mon... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually related to the Roman emperor Vespasien which created paying latrines.

  5. This is really depressing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    But it's a fundamental property of corporations that they cannot have a heart. It doesn't matter how moral its founders or leadership were, economic realities dictate that a company must break every rule it can. If it does anything different due to moral concerns, it will have by definition deviated from the economically optimal course of action. Keep that up and it will be out-competed or swallowed by the competition.

    1. Re:This is really depressing by sims+2 · · Score: 2

      Hobby Lobby.

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      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    2. Re: This is really depressing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nope it's just reveals attributes of reality you don't happen to like.

      Other possible sources of disappointment:

      Google values revenue over freedom.

      Kim Davis thinks her religious freedom allows her to deny others theirs.

      Trump makes sense to over 20% of Republicans who are accessible to pollsters and willing to go on record.

      Mass market media fails to report on the dubious accuracy of current political polling efforts.

      Critical thinking skills are difficult to learn and harder to practice.

      The Free Market is conceptually false.

      The universe is expanding at an accelerating rate.

  6. Only Google could go to China by turkeydance · · Score: 4, Funny

    old Vulcan paraphrase

  7. that's doing evil. by swschrad · · Score: 2

    if the Chinese won't allow free internet access, Google should not be there.

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    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:that's doing evil. by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Why not?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    2. Re:that's doing evil. by KGIII · · Score: 1

      If, from what I've read, China gives up on communism (Maoism, really) it is unlikely to be as relatively bloodless as was the fall of the USSR. The countries within the USSR actually have some cultural history of rising up against governing bodies greater than, comparatively speaking, seen in China. My understanding may be faulty but that's what they concluded. This was a topic on an NPR show not too dreadfully long ago. There's likely to be some reduction in their authoritarian stance but a true collapse, like seen in the USSR, is unlikely and, if happens, is likely to be bloody if I understood it properly. I ended up going to the site to read the story after listening to it but, unfortunately, I don't recall the name and can't seem to find it via Google.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  8. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. by saccade.com · · Score: 1

    Google turning their back on China didn't do much except cost them huge market share (Apple has been doing very well there). Because of all the blocks, an Android phone is almost a brick in China. Maybe they'll even fix Google maps there.

  9. Play Store? What's the point by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Unfortunately the ship has sailed for Google. The App store model relies on a monopoly on the phones. China is a country where everyone has an Android phone and none of them come with the Play Store. Instead there are many alternate stores catering specifically to the Chinese market with Chinese apps. Why would you want an app store to enter the market which no one can understand?

    1. Re:Play Store? What's the point by _merlin · · Score: 1

      Best thing about Chinese internet access is all the fucking Google trackers are blocked without the need for browser extensions. It's annoying if you're accessing a site that loads jQuery from the Google APIs server as you might have to wait for the request to time out before it will display. Seriously though, why do people even do this? Is it really that hard to host jQuery yourself?

    2. Re:Play Store? What's the point by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The answer to that is easy. Google has far more bandwidth so by linking to them not only do you decrease your own server load but your users can also access the content faster. Speaking of, there's every chance that your user already has cached the jQuery copy from Google so they may not be downloading anything new at all.

      Centralising APIs do offer advantages.

  10. don't be merely evil by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    don't be evil, be greedy.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  11. Maybe they thought it is reaonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Google caved in europe based on laws and reasons passed there, even if not accepted in other places. China has its reasoning for censorship, even if not accepted in most other places.

    If Google disagreed with the reasoning for both, how are they supposed to act?

  12. Slashdot: Update Your Google Icon by ZipK · · Score: 1

    Time to update to Google's new, super sleek san serif logo.

  13. Expat in China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I've been living in China for 3 years now (close to Shanghai in Jaingsu province).

    I try to spread the word about VPN's to friends here. I've offered to help them get prepaid credit cards to pay anonymously to western service providers.

    They don't care. They don't see any value in it. They don't care about Google, Facebook, YouTube because they have their own stuff which is better for them.

    They know their news sources lie and that's bjust how it is. I know one Chinese guy (one) that uses a western VPN (Astrill).

    I use StrongVPN. It's not a great provider for privacy, ect but I've had a good experience. PPTP seems to work best if you change the host every so often. I assume because it's weak and they can get into it if you want.

    OpenVPN just doesn't work. L2TP doesn't work well at home (China Telecom) or on my mobile (China Unicom) but works great on my phone when using my employers wifi.

    I assume L2TP is functional there because we're a tax paying business and we need a VPN to bridge our LAN's so they choose not to mess with it.

    1. Re: Expat in China by cyber-vandal · · Score: 2

      They know their news sources lie

      If only more westerners were prepared to accept that.

    2. Re:Expat in China by _merlin · · Score: 1

      If as a society the chinese dont want porn, why cant they make that choice? The US sure had issues with porn back in the day, and continue to do so with many other types of porn.

      (I'm posting this from Shanghai, using a Chinese internet connection without a VPN, so I hopefully have half a clue about what I'm talking about.) China as a society doesn't seem to have a problem with porn. It isn't generally on display, but you can ask for "huang DVD" at plenty of shops and be shown a selection of skin flicks. Every night someone comes through this hotel and slips business cards advertising escort services under everyone's doors. Relatively few web sites are actually blocked, I mean 4chan with its rampant porn, gore, hate and conspiracy theories is fully accessible for fuck's sake. It's nowhere near as restricted as westerners seem to imagine.

  14. It is about the time by polind · · Score: 1

    I mean, this kind of PR event is meaningless after PRISM.