Software Is Hiring, But Manufacturing Is Bleeding

Nerval's Lobster writes: Which tech segment added the most jobs in August? According to new data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, tech consulting gained 7,000 positions in August, (Dice link) below July's gains of 11,100, but enough to set it ahead of data processing, hosting, and related services (which added 1,600 jobs) and computer and electronic-product manufacturing (which lost 1,800 jobs). The latest numbers reflect some longtime trends: The rise of cloud services and infrastructure has contributed to slackening demand for PCs and other hardware, eroding manufacturing jobs. At the same time, increased appetite for everything from Web developers to information-systems managers has kept employers adding positions in other technology segments. If that didn't make things difficult enough for manufacturing folks, the rise of automation has cut down on the number of manufacturing jobs available worldwide, contributing to continuing pressure on the segment as a whole, despite all the noise about bringing those jobs back to the U.S.

Comments

(Dice link)

[grimmjeeper]

At least they're being a little more up front about click bait now...

Re:(Dice link)

[Anonymous Coward]

But not about the fact that Nerval's Lobster has ONLY ever submitted stories which link to Dice.

Which means timothy is promoting stories from other Dice staffers and utterly failing to mention that.

Look at the story submissions from Nerval's Lobster ... that posting history screams "shilling for Dice".

But apparently Dice doesn't have any issues with shamelessly pushing clickbait to their own stuff.

Fuck you, Dice.

Anyone know if

[rsilvergun]

We're producing less? I'm guessing no and that this is the effects of all that automation I keep hearing isn't happening...

Re:Anyone know if

[ErichTheRed]

I think it's that we're producing fewer goods that require unskilled manufacturing labor. US GDP is heavily skewed by high-ticket military equipment, cars and airplanes (Boeing, Lockheed, GM, Ford, etc.) So instead of millions of textile and toy factories employing a huge middle class, we have massive mostly automated factories that don't employ anyone from the unskilled pool and very few from the skilled pool. One $3 billion airplane doesn't add the same number of jobs that $3 billion worth of consumer goods does.

Growing up in a Rust Belt city, I saw exactly what the first loss of manufacturing did in the 80s. Factory work wasn't glamorous, but it paid well, had good benefits based on union membership, and it was stable. Low-skilled guys were able to live a middle class life, put their kids through school, and buy things occasionally to power the local economy. Even a local bar or pizza place was affected by 5000+ workers in 3 shifts working steel mills, car plants, etc. Now it looks like the entire country is going to turn into the Rust Belt, and I'm not a big fan of that idea.

Re:Digitial Economy

[grimmjeeper]

We could always do what was done leading up to our 50's manufacturing boom.

And that is... participate in a war that bombs every other developed country into oblivion so that we have absolutely no competition for manufactured goods and can charge whatever we want for them...

Re:Digitial Economy

[gstoddart]

Anyone who thinks we're ever going back to the 1950s economy, with vast numbers of well-paid manufacturing jobs for low-skilled workers, is either deluded, or a socialist. Oh, wait...

Or deluded and capitalist and claiming it's possible for companies to grow by 10% every year forever ... or that somehow giving tax breaks to the wealthy and corporations makes everyone else's lives better ... or that corporations are entitled to strip out the jobs from the parent society to maximize shareholder value.

Sorry, but in its current incarnation capitalism relies on just as much delusional fantasy and bullshit as communism ever did.

And it might surprise you that many countries have struck a nice balance between having private industry and pretending like you can have a functioning society if nobody pays for it.

But keep making it into your idiotic partisan position, and keep on demonstrating you're an idiot.

Re:Digitial Economy

[Ravaldy]

In thirty years, most 'manufacturing' will consist of downloading a design from the Net and loading it into a 3D printer, either in your garage or the local print shop.

That will be true for end user products but the construction industry will still be around as well as commercial and industrial manufacturing methods will probably still be cheaper. I don't argue that there's a point in time where 3d printing may take over all types of manufacturing but 30 years may still be still a little early.

I say this because 3d printing has existed for a long time and even with today's low cost material and equipment the cost per piece (when volume applies) is still MUCH higher. With electricity cost being what they are, 3d printing may take a little while longer before it can compete against mainstream manufacturing of volume goods.

If you take a look at the raw numbers

[Crashmarik]

You see a much different picture overall

https://research.stlouisfed.or...

https://research.stlouisfed.or...

And here's the chart

http://imgur.com/PA4QfSl

What you have is large numbers of guest/H1B workers being hired while the market for American born workers in any sector is dead stagnant since 2007
BTW thanks for the hope and change.

Re:If you take a look at the raw numbers

[Anonymous Coward]

Kind of looks like the hope and change helped pull us out of the hole based on your info, as the total number of jobs is more than what it was before the recession. Seems like a rather odd remark based on the information you provided. Also the years you're seeing spikes in foreign labor beyond what was there before the recession are the ones where Republicans were in control generally...so again weird that you would use an anti-Obama comment. Did you actually read your own info?

Manufacturing vs Jobs in Manufacturing

[PeterJFraser]

Manufacturing is coming back, but the manufacturing that is coming back is automated. The manufacturing jobs are not coming back.

Re:Digitial Economy

[dagrichards]

Oh yes that war is coming. There is no good way to predict what the world will look like after the 30 or so years it will take to fight and rebuild after it. The last World War ended the then current "world order". Part one 1914 - 18 finally ended the European monarchies. Part two seems to have shifted the political focus to a three way balancing act US, Europe, USSR. But did finally answer the question of "What is Germany's place on the European stage". That wave is finally attenuating. By the time the debris stops falling from the next World War we may very well be back to manufacturing jobs performed by humans. The "inexorable progress of history" you envision has had a few episodes of some pretty profound back slides. Its possible that the pinnacle of tech in a 100 years is the blacksmith that is able to forge engine block mined from the wreckage of the vanished cities

Oil bubble bursted

[shbazjinkens]

I think another huge contributor to a drop in manufacturing is the oil bust earlier this year. Maybe around a hundred thousand have been laid off now because of that and budgets cut across the board. The sheer amount of steel and labor involved in the last several years of shale booms is mind-boggling. Those areas still don't have good pipeline infrastructure, so oil is often trucked away and surplus gas burned off. It's visible from space and shows up better than nearby metropolitan areas. Look at these images of the Bakken and Eagle Ford Shales.

Meanwhile, all of the tech equipment purchasing supporting those activities has come to a grinding halt.

Blame Central Bank Zero Intrest Rates

[trout007]

I used to work designing automation equipment. The two biggest factors in deciding to automate are the labor rate and interest rate. If you are going to automate you are looking for a payback between 2-5 years (at least for the industry I was in). Thr Central banks low Intrest policies make this payback much shorter which leads to more automation. If they actually let the market set rates they would be much higher now which would tend to favor hiring more people instead of automation.

Re:Digitial Economy

[tedgyz]

Or deluded and capitalist and claiming it's possible for companies to grow by 10% every year forever ...

This has always struck me as obviously delusional, yet every corporation marches to the same beat. When I worked at HP, I remember how disappointed the stock magi were when we only increased revenue 9% instead of 10%. I kept asking myself, "What are these people going to do when we run out of customers?" I know the Earth's population is growing, but not fast enough for corporate goals.

Sure China, India, and other emerging economies will give a good customer base, but those countries are mostly going to sell local products.

Re:Manufacturing requiring humans isn't coming bac

[MountainLogic]

This is hardly new. There has always been a tradeoff between long term capital investment and the option for using higher cost (per unit manufactured) hand labor. The equation is not just the cost per hour of a person vs. the lifetime cost of a machine. There is often different tradeoffs in quality and flexibility. Due to rising asian labor rates, increased shipping rates, very high Chinese energy costs, the capital cost of product sitting idle in transit and the general brain damage of working with an off shore vendor, manufacturing is moving back to the US. Jobs will not be moving back at nearly the same rate because labor rates are much higher in the US and far fewer americans are willing to stand for eight hours a day snapping together two pieces of plastic. You can expect to see a huge growth in manufacturing engineering jobs and yes even robotics engineers. You can also expect to see changes in product design: faster revision cycles because the engineers are located in the same building/timezone as the factory, different design that make use increased automation vs hand assembly, different material/manufacturing choices to take advantage of different energy/supply chain options and cheaper spare parts.

Re:Digitial Economy

[gstoddart]

It's predicated on impossible assumptions, and there are not enough resources to either make or have people be able to buy these products.

It's completely irrational the way the stock market works, because it's utterly impossible.

All it is in the near term is moving around resources to benefit corporations and maximize "shareholder value", and therefore "executive bonuses".

It's a fucking Ponzi scheme. It's a lie. It's a complete work of fiction.

Capitalism as it stands now simply cannot work and achieve the outcomes it claims.

Re:Manufacturing requiring humans isn't coming bac

[gestalt_n_pepper]

...We have enough to feed, clothe, house, etc. the population, even as it increases.

Yes, for a little while, until the cheap (emphasis on cheap) hydrocarbons run out (They will always exist).
Until the mined phosphates run out.
Until enough major aquifers in major agricultural areas run dry.
Until some whackjob with a nuke or two decides that the problem of resource scarcity can be solved by nuking their neighbors.

2100 is going to be the start of an interesting era. I'm grateful that I won't be here for the show. Starvation doesn't suit me.

Political Rant (Re:Anyone know if)

[Tablizer]

the entire country is going to turn into the Rust Belt, and I'm not a big fan of that idea.

Pardon me for going political, but the GOP is either clueless, or echoing propaganda of the rich in exchange for money or favors.

Their idea of "fixing" the economy is to lower taxes and regulations, which will allegedly create some undefined wad of new employment or inventions that stimulate general hiring.

But there is plenty of investment money floating around; it's not the current bottleneck. The rich are already bidding up fishy dot-coms and real-estate to bubble-sniffing levels because they don't know where else to put all their cash, other than overseas factory mines.

I suppose it's true that less regulations may allow us to compete with 3rd world nations, but we would gain the negative conditions of the 3rd world nations to get that (pollution, slave-like hours/treatment, worker injuries, etc.)

Either we need increased socialism, and/or add tariffs on countries with lopsided trade ratios with us. So called "protectionism" is keeping Japan's employment high. True, goods are more expensive there, but perhaps its time to trade "stuff" for jobs. Masses of unemployed are a recipe for trouble.

GOP is living in the 70's. But I guess living in the past is the very essence of "conservatism". They are true to their mission, one can say, even if it's a misguided mission.

Both parties responsible for death of middle class

[liquid_schwartz]

I see a lot of smug comments about either Democrats (D) or Republicans (R) when the reality is that both parties have done their best, at the behest of their well heeled sponsors, to have the rich get richer while the 99% gets the shaft. "Free trade" deals have been done under both D and R and in both cases created a race to the bottom that decimated the middle class. Wages have been stagnant since the early 70s, and in the past 40+ years there have been multiple D and R administrations. This is not a partisan issue, both D and R sold us out.

Old Joke

[rsilvergun]

There's a conservative, a working man and a Union man at a table with 10 cookies. The conservative snatches up 9 cookies and gobbles them up. Then he turns to the working man and says "Hey, watch out, that guys gonna eat your cookie".