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University Employees Suspended Due To Guest Worker Scandal
sethstorm writes: By sponsoring employees for use at an IT staffing firm, Wright State University may have broken new ground in guest worker fraud. According to the Dayton Daily News, 19 individuals were sponsored by the university yet ended up working for WebYoga, a firm controlled by (now-suspended) top Wright State officials. They also cited Wright State's exemptions regarding prevailing wage law and H1-b limits as attractive qualities. This has implications not only for the existing workforce, but to students that see the university putting its own staff ahead of them.
Looks like time to up the salary offer or find other suitable incentives.
> my staffing pro in Lima
I applied for a job in the Seattle area, and they used My Staffing Pro. MSP pursued me harder than the company I applied for. I wasn’t willing to move to Ohio, but that didn’t stop them from being so persuasive in trying to work for them. It’s sad that they’re so desperate for programmers that they resorted to trolling their customer’s candidates. It seemed terribly dishonest so I didn’t follow-up on it.
There's not enough developers to hire, so you have to resort to shady practises to hire them. My company hasn't had a single good legal candidate for our Java backend position apply in over two years, so we got creative.
Then you're not offering enough money...
Sounds like they want a solution without having to pay for it.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Wanted: Java developer with 10 years experience. Pays $30k a year. Full Obamacare!
H1-b Visa workers need to cost the companies 2x what hiring a citizen does. The extra money should go to training for existing, out of work, citizens.
As long as there is financial incentive for this program to be abused, it will be.
I guess if they start bringing in cheap labor from China instead of India they'll rename the company WebTaiChi.
lucm, indeed.
Department of Labor required international staffing agencies to pay a minimum of $61k for developers in Dayton. These guys (also in Dayton) paid $40k. Do the students know this was going on? Did the academic senate know this was going on? The staffing company paid the university to make this contract happen. Wow...
Why do universities have an exemption for these rules at all?
No, she paid $5000 to her IT guy to setup her mail server. If visa workers had done it it would have cost $50 and a fake job offer.
lucm, indeed.
You don't even get to see my Resume. It's all the tools, frameworks, development processes, and miscellaneous acronyms items that get listed as "requiring" an expert level with some number of years of experience. If, for whatever reason, I lack even one of those, or if my experience is only in something related (rather than some vendor's 2016 product), then I am declined in advance.
Listing a degree requirement without an "or equivalent work experience" thrown somewhere in there also causes problems. By doing so, you don't get to find out about how I was essentially self-taught, the independent games which I published, or even the relevant military experience.
Whether or not I could actually do the work is another issue entirely - generally, I'd have needed a few weeks to study the existing software, a day or so to familiarize myself with syntax (if not already known), and maybe a few minutes to figure out where the manuals are and how to use them.
After more than enough non-replies and politically-correct rejection-without-explanations from the few who didn't keep their requirements too specific, I concluded that trucks are not yet driving themselves.
- An "Unqualified" Applicant
My company hasn't had a single good legal candidate for our Java backend position apply in over two years, so we got creative.
Pay more.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Use third world people, get third world morality.
We got bought out by Paychex, but even that couldn't help us get any experienced people.
Pay more. If you can't get experienced people, it's because you're not paying enough.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
the cost of the Obamacare website corresponds to 70,000 workers getting $30k each.
Yes we can!
lucm, indeed.
Wright State University is a taxpayer-funded public agency in the State of Ohio. So, they used taxpayer money to hire H1-Bs, undercutting US citizens. It's bad enough when corporations hire H1-Bs over citizens, but this is a public agency doing it. Ohio and/or the feds needs to come down hard on WSU. This kind of crap needs to stop.
I'm not surprised a damn bit. Hell, the school colors are green and gold.
Personally, I'd get rid of all the H1B's. Business, is screwing American workers, just for more profit. Of course, our congress does what they tell them to do.
You haven't been in the industry long enough. At some point Whats top dollar for the best of this breed of programmer wherein they decide let's outsource this, and there's a gajillion coders out there undercutting each other, and it winds up becoming staffed by poor quality coders, so the firms beef up their call centers with even more ridiculous low rent workers, cheapening the industry, and sending this breed to extinction, and into idiocracy.
Rinse lather repeat with each flavor-of-the-month programming language. But don't ask why you're being put on hold one more time. It is no wonder that it is a male-dominated industry, because we think that we're the smart ones, when it seems that the opposite is true.
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
This kind of thinking is why US workers are in such deep shit. There are people who actually believe that setting a price for your labor is somehow bad.
When a company sets a price on a product based on a desired level of profit, it's considered "the Free Market". But when a worker does the same thing we're told it's bad for everyone.
It's the Stockholm Syndrome, and the supply-side is holding you hostage. You think everyone's wages should be on a runaway train to the bottom of the barrel. What's funny is how many of these same people think it's just horrible that low-wage workers come across to border to pick lettuce. It just may be that programming is the new farm labor and has become another job that US workers don't want to do, at least at the price that's on the table.
Sooner or later, someone will figure out that labor comes first. It precedes capital. There is no capital without labor to make it happen. When you reverse the hierarchy, economies (and societies) suffer.
You are welcome on my lawn.
the problem with "pay more" is that there's often a huge discrepancy between what a company can afford and what experienced people think they're worth.
It's a problem which fixes itself pretty quickly as the experienced people run out of money. Except they don't seem to be running out of money so someone must be paying them what they think they're worth. Therefore the problem isn't with them.
the problem with "pay more" is that there's often a huge discrepancy between what a company can afford and what experienced people think they're worth.
What people think they're worth? If you can't find workers at a given price point, it means they're worth more than you think. There's a discrepancy, and it's on your side.
As for me, I've had no trouble finding work at the prices I've been asking.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Apparently your recruiting company pays more than you do. So you aren't paying more.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
the problem with "pay more" is that there's often a huge discrepancy between what a company can afford and what experienced people think they're worth.That's the whole reason why so many companies jump on the visa workers thing. Just like it happened in the auto industry, workers got used to high wages and are unwilling to consider the actual value of their contribution in a world where programming is now a commodity, so they end up replaced by cheap labor from a developing country. Same thing that happened to helpdesk, then sysadmins.
Of course it's easier to blame everything on pure greed from those evil companies, but see how much good this did in Detroit.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with the "actual value" of their contribution. Programmers are the most important resource for many of these companies, but compare the average programmer salary vs the average marketing/sales team salary. If every job has to compete with 3rd world country labor prices, then we will ALL end up being paid 3rd world labor rates. That's the end game here. We are all on a massive race to the bottom, where the only decent jobs left in America will be in the service industry and health industry. Everything else will be off-shored.
Our government could help to reduce this problem simply by cracking down on guest visa and H1B violations, but that is highly unlikely. They could also close all the tax loopholes that support companies who send jobs overseas, but we know that won't happen either.
About right I suppose. That must have included T&M (time and materials) of the hardware, software, and project time to completion.
Life is not for the lazy.
Heard all the same bullshit about those "dangerous" Japanese cars and those "low-quality" Mexican factories. Same same same.
Strange, I don't see you or other America First zealots throwing your iPhone in the hazardous materials bin. Yet all the manufacturing is done offshore, and large part of the software is written by visa workers. (Apple signs up an extra 1500 IT visa workers or so every year).
lucm, indeed.
Funny how that same reasoning doesn't seem to keep prices to the consumer from rising. And it sure doesn't influence CEO salaries. Why not bring in an H1B, there are plenty of well qualified European CEOs accustomed to working for a fraction of what an American CEO costs.
Get rid of employer provided healthcare as a start in the usa to make us more like other country's also the EU has lot's of worker rights that we don't have.
The next killer is going to be the change of the overtime salary threshold right now someone can get paid $23,660 and be made to work 60-80 hours with out any OT pay.
the problem with "pay more" is that there's often a huge discrepancy between what a company can afford and what experienced people think they're worth.
It's a problem which fixes itself pretty quickly as the experienced people run out of money. Except they don't seem to be running out of money so someone must be paying them what they think they're worth. Therefore the problem isn't with them.
Haven't you noticed the clear shift towards IT companies hiring less experienced workers? How often do you think people with 12-15 years of programming experience interview at Amazon or Google?
Next time you hear about the talent shortage in IT and the companies raiding college to grab people who haven't even finished their degree, read the fine print. There's a shortage of IT talent in the 0-4 years of experience. People with more experienced are not considered. Remember that blog post? http://unemployable.pen.io/
The IT world today is young staff and/or visa workers. Experienced people have to either accept a lower salary or hang on to whatever job they have, because they are no in demand. I'm not saying this is right, I'm saying this is how it is.
lucm, indeed.
If you're paying more and still have workers stolen away, you must be hell on Earth to work for. Try being nicer.
What about the places that use staffing firms / IT contractors? There are lot's of loop holes there.
Sooner or later, someone will figure out that labor comes first.
Turn on the TV and watch the news. Europeans are struggling to keep willing workers OUT of their countries. Donald Trump is promising to deport millions of workers from America. The world is awash in workers. Laborers are perceived to have negative value.
Experience doesn't count for jack. It's hard to tell how good a person will be until they've worked there for a bit. Resumes are mostly white lies. Nearly everyone we interview has a great resume, but nearly everyone we interview seems to be a fake. Ohh yes, offer more money. Holy crap. Even more people with awesome resumes come out of the wood work. You were a DBA for 5 years, but can't hold a conversation about indexes? Been programming .Net/Java for 5 years, don't understand the garbage collector? Been writing Web Apps for 5 years, don't know the basic theory behind asynchronous programs? Bah.
the problem with "pay more" is that there's often a huge discrepancy between what a company can afford and what experienced people think they're worth.
What people think they're worth? If you can't find workers at a given price point, it means they're worth more than you think.
That's exactly where the visa workers show up. You have to put them in the demand/offer equation because they exist, they are cheap, and they are for the most part as qualified as the American equivalent with a 40% discount. And that's for the most part India staff.
Here's the kicker. India is a drop in the ocean. China is currently mass-producing engineers. For the moment they are extremely low-quality engineers because the school system is weak and the learning opportunities are not fantastic. But 8 millions grads per year - that's still 3x more than in the US. There is no way but upwards for Chinese IT workers and soon Indians will be the exception.
When those floodgates open, let's see how much trouble you have finding work at your "price point". It's a ticking bomb, or what people in Silicon Valley call "disruptive" (until it's their own industry that gets disrupted).
lucm, indeed.
Then you have three choices - whether programmer or any other kind of worker - organized labor and collective bargaining, endorse a robust welfare state or prepare for abject poverty for the rest of your life.
There is no other option. All forms of labor are being degraded.
You are welcome on my lawn.
If someone is "putting money at risk" it's because someone, somewhere - did some real work.
Don't take it from me, listen to Abraham Lincoln:
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu...
You are welcome on my lawn.
it wasn't just Marx who said it:
http://www.brainyquote.com/quo...
Is that why countries that follow the teachings of Abraham Lincoln are such failures?
You are welcome on my lawn.
There's not enough developers to hire, so you have to resort to shady practises to hire them. My company hasn't had a single good legal candidate for our Java backend position apply in over two years, so we got creative.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe your company is crooked, sucks, isn't paying enough, or all of the above?
The big players have bribed the right people (campaign contributions, eventual employment in the private sector), and used the right high priced lawyers. It's only the low level scamsters who get caught. Then the authorities get to pretend that they are enforcing the law and protecting US workers.
It's just a piece of theater. Nothing to see here, move along.
Why is Snark Required?
Don't allow it. Person must be directly employed on a permanent basis by the company that is registered at that location as the primary business premises.
The equivalent Australian visa is the 457 visa and contractors and staffing / labour hire firms are prevented from using them for onhired staff
Funny how that same reasoning doesn't seem to keep prices to the consumer from rising. And it sure doesn't influence CEO salaries. Why not bring in an H1B, there are plenty of well qualified European CEOs accustomed to working for a fraction of what an American CEO costs.
I just did a bit of googling on this matter and it is truly amazing. Did you know that Yahoo's CFO (the chief bean counter) made 50% more money last year than the CEO of SAP? Yet SAP make 4x more money than Yahoo.
Other interesting figures:
HP: CEO makes 20 millions, (100 billions revenue, 5 billions profit)
Microsoft: CEO makes 84 millions, (100 billions revenue, 12 billions profit)
Apple: CEO makes 9 millions, (200 billions revenue, 40 billions profit)
JP Morgan: CEO makes 20 millions, (50 billions revenue, 22 billions profit)
and my favorite:
Twitter: CEO makes 24 millions (1.4 billions revenue, -500 millions profit)
Meanwhile in Europe:
SAP: CEO makes 9 millions (18 billions revenu, 4 billions profit)
VW: CEO makes 23 millions (200 billions revenues, 12 billions profit)
Well I tried to find more European IT companies but there isn't a lot that are in the multi-billions dollars income bracket.
lucm, indeed.
Sounds like you have a bee in your bonnet. Calm down man, the job market isn't as bad as you think it is.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
You really like that quote, you've been using it twice in this thread. Maybe you should get it framed or something. That's probably the only Republican president you don't badmouth.
lucm, indeed.
Bullshit, go to any job site and search for "junior" or "entry level" there will be about 2 jobs on opposite sides of the country
that's because what used to be "junior" in IT (0-5 years) is now considered "experienced".
Do you see a lot of postings looking for someone with 10 or 15 years of experience? What about 20 years?
lucm, indeed.
You need to improve your ads to indicate you are looking for someone who actually has skills, and are willing to reward them with pay + interesting work.
In your case, the problem is your searching method. Focus on improving that.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Understanding our clients' strategy, culture and business methodology leads us to fulfill their IT needs with custom and articulated solutions. Our results speak for themselves
The results indeed do speak for themselves.
1. Offering excellence in technology solutions, utilizing automation, creativity and innovation to solve client IT issues.
They were quite creative in H1-b fraud by involving the university.
2. Providing service to our customers and affiliates, based on the principles of professionalism, integrity and the spirit of partnership.
...for varying degrees of integrity.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
You believe the North was interested in destroying the Southern economy, so I'll take a pass on your wisdom being anything more than that of a Southern apologist who would blame Lincoln for starting a war.
Well, to be fair, he was the last Republican president (except maybe Eisenhower) who wasn't a complete dick.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Then there are the less seldom used skills. Or you have bad recruiters and HR. Where I work it's seeming to be very difficult to find good embedded C programmers. We get a lot of EE people but often they have little programming skills or programming as part of a team. CS people tend to know nothing whatsoever about C or C++ anymore, even if they put it on their resume, and can't even get a simple function written in any language.
There are far too many lies on resumes too. They all want to make it look like they were the major force behind some project but when you ask questions about it they only maintained a small part of it under direct supervision. Seriously people if you're looking for a job here's some advice: if you put something on your resume, YOU WILL BE ASKED ABOUT IT! At the very least, cram the day before the interview.
The North "used slavery" to destroy the South's economy?
That's some quality alternative history, right there. The South's economy was built on slavery, and Lincoln, you may recall, signed the Emancipation Proclamation.
It really bugs you that an idea you ascribed to the "teachings" of Karl Marx was actually espoused by the first Republican president, doesn't it?
You are welcome on my lawn.
In the case of programming the issue will resolve itself more simply. Businesses that pursue low cost over all other considerations will end up hiring bottom-of-the-barrel programmers, who will in turn write poor code that eventually destroys their business in a massive security breach.
I'll be watching from here with popcorn, in a company that's actually selective about who it hires.
On the other hand, if you want to organize programmers, go ask the Germans how a proper labor union works. US programmers will not join a sclerotic union system like the one that exists here in the U.S - where the unions exist mostly to stop progress and bleed companies until they're dead, rather than getting work done and improving the business.
The right to protest the State is more sacred than the State.
You know what? Just lie. Seriously, just fucking lie and tell them you have whatever they want. They don't deserve honesty, because they have no honor. It's really come down to this. These assholes will lie, cheat, bribe, and steal to get their way with the government and screw over the good people. It's time they reaped what they sowed.
We got bought out by Paychex, but even that couldn't help us get any experienced people.
Pay more. If you can't get experienced people, it's because you're not paying enough.
Let me put in a metaphor.
Suppose you put an ad that you want to buy the iPhone 6 for $50. Even if you get one, it will probably be illegally acquired.
Consider another situation. You visit every store and they say they don't have an iPhone 6 and you can only get it off someone else by offering them above market price.
I don't which situation we are in or at which point between the two extremes we are in. Are employers looking for stupidly cheap workers or is the situation that the only way employers can get workers is to poach it off some other company?
As an engineer, I'd like to believe its the first. I wouldn't know since the company hides all the financials from us so I have no idea even to the ballpark of what revenue I contribute to the company against what I'm paid.
You misunderstand me. I'm well aware that the workers in third-world countries are being exploited by trans-national corporations. It's a struggle for everyone, not just Americans.
No, I really don't. I think "globalization" is one of the big scams of the 20th century used to siphon wealth from the bottom to the top all over the world. The only thing I want to see globalized is the struggle for a more equitable distribution of wealth based upon productivity and worker rights instead of corporate financial shenanigans.
You are welcome on my lawn.
This kind of thinking is why US workers are in such deep shit. There are people who actually believe that setting a price for your labor is somehow bad.
When a company sets a price on a product based on a desired level of profit, it's considered "the Free Market". But when a worker does the same thing we're told it's bad for everyone.
It's the Stockholm Syndrome, and the supply-side is holding you hostage. You think everyone's wages should be on a runaway train to the bottom of the barrel. What's funny is how many of these same people think it's just horrible that low-wage workers come across to border to pick lettuce. It just may be that programming is the new farm labor and has become another job that US workers don't want to do, at least at the price that's on the table.
Sooner or later, someone will figure out that labor comes first. It precedes capital. There is no capital without labor to make it happen. When you reverse the hierarchy, economies (and societies) suffer.
Companies can put high prices but nobody will buy them. Then, they will be forced to cut prices to sell their products.
If you give a company monopoly, then they don't have to cut prices since you have no choice but to buy from them.
Monopolies are bad for the economy. Competition is good. If you're the monopoly, competition is bad but for the overall economy, competition is good.
There is some truth to harming the economy with labor fixing prices and monopolizing labor like with unions. The US auto industry has struggled and lost its huge lead in the automotive industry partially because of this.
Let's see how long you'll be able to afford popcorn.
I know a few people who sincerely believed their companies were looking out for them like some benevolent corporate pappy, right up until the day they were told they weren't needed anymore.
The US labor movement is sclerotic because it served the financial elite to make it so. There's been a long term conspiracy to degrade labor unions since the 1950s. Why do you think so many administrations turned a blind eye to the takeover of so many unions by organized crime?
But I agree, the German organized labor system is very good. It's a shining example of how a manufacturing economy does better when workers are treated with respect and paid well.
You are welcome on my lawn.
So are monopsonies, which we are moving toward in our job markets.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I think other commodities should be handled the same way. Why should US customers pay more for cellphone plans here when its cheaper elsewhere? Lets get H1Bs or equivalent for those cellphone plans. US customers can claim we can't find native cellphone providers with the experience we want at the salary we offer, so we need to bring in outside talent. We can argue the same for cars. There are cheaper cars made in other countries. And there are cars with more advanced designs in other countries that are not made available here. We need H1Bs or equivalent to get those cars in here to compete with the native cars. There is similiar case for cellphones. Cheaper and more advanced cellphones are released in other countries than the US all the time. There is a need for those cellphones to be brought in. Not to mention, internet speeds in the US is dismal compared to those enjoyed by some other countries, like Japan and South Korea. We need H1Bs to bring in those internet companies here to compete the the native internet companies here.
I believe that the above was simply trying to say that the North claimed to be opposed to slavery simply as a pretext for a desire to crush the Southern Economy, just in case that wasn't clear.
It's still bollocks, but let's not get confused why due to a misunderstanding of meaning, even if it was ambiguous.
Before I took the job I'm in now I interviewed for several similar jobs and on a few occasions was more or less told not to ask what the pay was until after I'd signed up. Did not take those jobs
I also saw a job ad for a web developer who needed a master's degree, 5 or more years experience in long list of webby type things, spoken and written Mandarin and English and the willingness to work shifts. All for $25,000.
I often wondered if they got any answers to that ad and if any of them didn't contain swear words.
I also saw a job ad for a web developer who needed a master's degree, 5 or more years experience in long list of webby type things, spoken and written Mandarin and English and the willingness to work shifts. All for $25,000.
They're missing a zero in that figure.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Since you're an engineer, think of it as a supply-demand curve. When there are fewer of an object, the price will go up, which means the demand will drop (because some companies can't pay that much, and will go out of business). As the price goes up, companies will keep dropping out until the demand matches the supply. This is true of every market everywhere. (if it's a roughly free market).
Companies are always looking for ways to cut costs, so if they can pay you less, they will. It's the job of HR to get that information (for example, when employees leave, in the exit interview, they ask how much you will be making in your new job). When I leave a job, I always tell HR that they need to pay more money. Try to help out my programming brothers and sisters.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
That's wrong, too. "The North" didn't just claim to be opposed to slavery. They ended slavery. Why do you think the Underground Railroad was northbound? There are even songs, like "The Drinking Gourd" which slaves taught each other so they'd know to use the Big Dipper to head North to freedom.
The trope that the "Civil War wasn't really about slavery" is just something racists say to make each other feel better. "Property Rights" and "States' Rights" were just veiled references the South used (and often still uses) to their deep-seated racism.
You are welcome on my lawn.
You don't know what we're offering, but you still run your mouth. How about shutting up and leave the discussion to the adults?
Yeah, your problem is the work environment. People see how rude you are in the interview, and anyone reasonably competent goes somewhere else.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
It's easy to look back at things that happened 150 years ago and then put people in the Right or Wrong columns. That's the Monday morning quarterback syndrome.
If you want wisdom, here it is: there hasn't been a single armed conflict in History that opposed Good People and Bad People. Things are always more complicated than that. The more strongly you believe that one side in a specific conflict was "right", the less you know about said conflict. If you don't have the intellectual humility to accept that, you're vastly overestimating your capacity to see the big picture.
lucm, indeed.
I read your rant in utter amazement
I did work for others before I started my own companies, so I get the chance to observe this matter from both sides of the proverbial coin
This is what you said...
"... Sooner or later, someone will figure out that labor comes first. It precedes capital ..."
Dude, your leftist kumbaya can only go so far...
1. Capital *does* come first. Without $$$, how the fuck you can set up a company?
2. Without making a decent profit, how the fuck any commercial entity (ie., a corporation) can continue to exist?
3. Lastly, would you kindly provide us with a citation for the following?
"... when a worker does the same thing we're told it's bad for everyone..."?
Thanks!!
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.
After the war, southerners felt immoral for supporting slavery, and tried to come up with other reasons for the war, the famous "Lost Cause". Charles A. Beard was not the first of these historians, and he was not the last. Slavery was clearly the central issue.
Which isn't to say that everyone fought because of slavery: some people had other reasons for fighting. General Lee didn't want the war, he liked the union. When war came, he found his devotion to Virginia was deeper than his devotion to his country (also, he had plenty of family members in Virginia and didn't want to fight against them).
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
"Just like it happened in the auto industry, workers got used to high wages and are unwilling to consider the actual value of their contribution in a world"
In the Recent Unpleasantness, the UAW successfully negotiated wages downward, while non-union financial workers insisted in receiving their bonuses for the demonstrable damage they did to the markets.
there are plenty of well qualified European CEOs accustomed to working for a fraction of what an American CEO costs.
The main reason that the CEOs in continental Europe work for less is that the boards of directors of public companies in addition to directors that advocate for shareholders, generally have directors that serve as employee representatives (generally required by local laws). This is not the case in the US and UK, so the directors and executives in those countries tend to vote themselves big pay packages (because executives often serve on the boards of other companies, it's a scratch-my-back situations) and the employees get less (because there is less to go around). Until the board of directors structure changes significantly in the USA, it won't matter where the CEO comes from.
We already offer about 40% more than Microsoft pays. You don't know what we're offering, but you still run your mouth. How about shutting up and leave the discussion to the adults?
Maybe you could be so kind as to post a link to a public posting of the job in question, with pertinent salary details?
No? Then you are a fucking troll/shill. Go sit at the kids table. Or the dogs.
The difference is between skilled and unskilled. and between highly skilled and skilled. There are not tens of thousands of highly skilled workers wanting to come to Europe to work.
False, you can find plenty of references to the reasons, declared by the states themselves, that necessitated them to start an armed rebellion. They are mostly saying, we want our slaves, and we don't cotton to northerners telling us we can't tell them what to do. Check out the fugitive slave act, it preempted many State Rights, but since it only affected Northern States, the Southern states loved it.
Cheap storage VM.
There's been a long term conspiracy to degrade labor unions since the 1950s.
This has been happening since at least the very early 1900's. reference Fredrick Lewis Allen's excellent book, The Lords of Creation. The capitalist have succeeded in making every generation think this is a new struggle and their ways are "conservative" not cutting edge exploitation.
Further reference for free courtesy of what appears to be Australia's slightly more sane copyright laws.
Only Yesterday, by Frederick Lews Allen
Cheap storage VM.
Bullshit. Most jobs that require a degree could competently be done by a high school dropout with some additional job training.
Employers want people with degrees because it's harder to quit when you're staring six figures of student loan debt in the face, so they can work you harder, pay you less, and generally treat you like shit.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
That's some A-level revisionist history right there.
I bet you're just butthurt because the battle flag (NOT the flag of the Confederacy, the battle flag was directly representative of mass slaughter on the battlefield) no longer flies over many southern institutions.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
You know, if you're going to post your revisionist slavery-apologist bullshit, at least have the balls to post under your own name.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
GM and Ford have the largest market share at this point, and have for over a decade. I don't think the US automotive industry is struggling.
Of course, if you're an executive or a shareholder in one of those companies, you want the public to think you're struggling because of greedy lazy union workers.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Kind of hard to make money if you don't give people jobs. Think about this: How long can a company function with an open C-level position? How long can a company function without the people who do actual work?
Do you think Walmart would continue to make unreasonable amounts of money if they didn't have cashiers?
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
The problem there is that everyone who looks for people to hire rejects everyone that doesn't have everything on the laundry list. This is likely because the people who filter out resumes are not technical, and therefore don't know what a good tech employee looks like.
If you can find plenty of smart people, then you should hire them and TRAIN THEM ON THE STUFF THEY'RE MISSING. I know, why do I hate America, most companies would rather go out of business than invest anything in their new hires. Google has a strategy of hiring smart people and finding stuff for them to do; frequently this involves teaching them a specific language that they may not be fully up to speed on, but can get there in short order. Last I checked they were doing pretty well.
Another objection that I hear to training your people is "but but but they'll get the new skill and leave for another company!" If they're leaving, it's probably not because they want to screw you over. They're leaving because another company will treat them better. Treat your people better than the competition and they won't leave. Of course, that involves treating your people better, so nobody does it, because the sky will fall or something.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
You could even bring up the difference in dates between the emancipation proclamation (January 1, 1863) and the freeing of Maryland's slaves (November 1, 1864). If freeing the slaves was so important, why wasn't Maryland forced to free their slaves when the south was?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
According to the constitution, what they did was legal. Therefore the highest law of the land disagrees with you.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
And this is why Southerners viewed it as the War of Northern Agression.
War of Northern aggression? Why, I think you forget who fired the first shot. The south started that war.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I've seen a lot of "entry level" IT postings with job descriptions that require 4+ years of experience, a college degree and a pay rate that's lower than what I started working 18 years ago.
Yeah, people like you always have excuses, but they can never deny who fired the first shot.
The ironic thing is, if the south hadn't started it, they might have gotten away. Northern support for a war was ambivalent until the South started shooting. So the South failed at fighting a war, and failed at thinking smartly.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Do you think Walmart would continue to make unreasonable amounts of money if they didn't have cashiers?
Wal-Mart is in the process of replacing cashiers with self-checkout machines.
http://empirenews.net/wal-mart-laying-off-cashiers-customers-must-use-self-checkout-or-pay-fee/
Another objection that I hear to training your people is "but but but they'll get the new skill and leave for another company!" If they're leaving, it's probably not because they want to screw you over. They're leaving because another company will treat them better.
I did contract work for a large networking company that didn't want to train workers for certification because they would leave the company and get a better paying job somewhere else. Never mind that the lack of training prompted many people to get certified on their own time (and sometime with company equipment), leave the company and get a better paying job somewhere else. Corporate dysfunction at its finest.
There's a huge discrepancy between what I can afford and what Rolls Royce thinks their cars are worth too. I mean, come on, cars are a commodity: four rubber wheels and some plastic and rubber.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
I've seen many level entry job descriptions with those kind of requirements, which are then used to justify hiring H1B candidates.
OK, so that's not a great example. My point stands.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
That's not that surprising. From the bean-counter point of view, training costs money NOW, and the loss of an employee is hard to quantify, so it MIGHT not cost any money. In the absence of a quantifiable loss from not training, and a hard-number cost of training, the pinheads go with the thing that will DEFINITELY save money NOW, instead of something that MIGHT cost money in the future.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
That's why modern-day Southerners do not view the Civil War as simply about slavery.
Southerners are just trying to cover up their guilt (or now, the guilt of their ancestors). If you actually look at the historical documents, it was clearly about slavery.
Of course, there were great war heroes in the south, but that doesn't change the fact that the south seceded because of slavery.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Experienced people have to either accept a lower salary or hang on to whatever job they have, because they are no in demand. I'm not saying this is right, I'm saying this is how it is.
This is complete bullshit. Experienced programmers are in very high demand right now, even more so than the mid to late 90's. It's a sellers market in Chicago.
You have a reality problem. You're hopeless.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
They just don't want you to be able to do it as a group, because they believe it's OK to aggregate capital in a corporation, but somehow it's immoral to aggregate labor in a union.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Unlike Capitalism, Globalization is a giant Pyramid scheme and Zero-sum WITHOUT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... AND http://worldif.economist.com/a...
Casteism
Um, the secessionists wanted to secede from the union, not war. The north went to war to prevent the breakup of the union.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Besides that, Southerners hate being told to treat their minority citizens like humans and that is obvious if you ever talk to one.
FTFY
This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
Uh, who fired on Fort Sumter....
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
GM and Ford have the largest market share at this point,
Huh? Global market share this year is VW, Toyota, GM, Renaut-Nissan, Hyundai-Kia, Ford.
Ford is at half the volume of those first 4 which are all at 10m units +- a few hundred thousand.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
"low-quality" Mexican factories
Yes, the NAFTA factories setup in Mexico almost always put out an inferior product, just as the factories in eastern europe almost always put out inferior products for the european brands that manufacture there, but they sell those lower quality products at a lower price point. Those factories are somewhere between first world and Chinese/SE Asian crap because that's what the companies have built them to produce and that's where the expertise level is. It's probable that in a generation or less that China will exceed the production level of the factories in these second level states because they are building up the supply chain knowledge and they will get capital from the state lenders to compete on an international level. We've seen it before with Japan in the 80's and 90's and Korea in the 90's and 2000's.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
The Southern states walked away from a country where they feared that slavery might be banned. Take a look at articles of secession, and observe the big difference between the CSA and USA constitutions.
It got far more complicated after that, and it's pretty close to wrong to say that the Civil War was fought over slavery, but the South didn't secede just because of economic inequality.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Because the Emancipation Proclamation was something Lincoln could do to cut the South off from potential European support. Lincoln wanted to abolish slavery, but he was limited in what he could get away with.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
It's easy to look back at things that happened 150 years ago and then put people in the Right or Wrong columns.
Yes, it is. If you find it difficult, the ones who thought other humans should be their property are the ones in the "Wrong" column.
100 years is enough: If you want to deny the right to vote based on the presence or absence of an X and Y chromosome, you are also "Wrong".
70 years is also enough: If you knowingly aided in the genocide of another group, you are also "Wrong".
Even 50 years is enough: If you think people shouldn't be allowed to vote, purely on the basis of the skin color they are born with, you are also "Wrong".
Here's a nice general tip: If you don't want it actively done to you, don't actively do it to others - it's probably wrong.
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. If the expression "Monday morning quarterback" is not clear enough for you, what about "hindsight is 20/20"?
lucm, indeed.
But what if you can afford to pay Indian Java developer wages? See, that's the issue.
If you disagree with that, you may want to stop shopping in Wal-mart or in any other store where low prices are only possible because of foreign cheap labor.
lucm, indeed.
No. If I had been present during that war I would have picked the North side. I'm all for freedom - actually I'm even disgusted when today's people say that they "own" animals, that's the extent of where I think freedom will go one day (probably long after I'm gone).
But that doesn't mean I'm blind to the fact that civil war is more than just "Wrong vs Right".
lucm, indeed.
It's beyond the point but these machines are fantastic. The barcode reader is impressive, you don't need to move the box around to get the beep. Almost makes me want to become a cashier but apparently it's not a job with a thriving future.
I now prefer self-checkout, Wal-mart or grocery store, just like I prefer an ATM to a cashier.
lucm, indeed.
The secessionists did not secede through process of law, they did not petition the Federal Government
Are you quoting Muhamar Gaddafi or Bashar al-Assad?
lucm, indeed.
I'm not saying the moral issue didn't play a role. I'm saying it wasn't all about the moral issue. Like any war, it was mostly about money and power.
100 years from now people will say that the Iraq war was fought to free the Iraqis and Kurds. Will they be right? Partially. But we all know the real reasons. Been like that forever, will be like that forever.
lucm, indeed.
Slightly true. I do think we got backwards on the job requirements a bit. As in someone is thinking "must have RF experience, nice to have C experience" when it should be the other way around. But it's completely broken I think when someone says in desperation "let's just get this EE guy who can't program, hire him as a programmer who won't ever do any EE work, then have him take an online class to learn how to program and hope he can pick it up."
But the bigger problem is still there. The resumes read like a dream. Except the resumes lie. There's no way that someone who claims to have written device drivers in C can not know how to clear a bit from a word and not be able to figure it out. There is always some training to do of course; learn how to use the tools, learn the procedures, learn the code base, read the schematics, figure out the politics, etc. But for the day to day job of writing code, I want the person to already know how to do some basic coding. That's not too much to ask, especially when it's not an entry level grunt job. When did engineering become a "no experience or skills necessary" job?
If corporations are supposed to train everything, when what are universities for? Partying? Sure, there are some people who can learn on their own, but usually they do this before applying for a senior level job in the field unless they're really really good at bullshitting.
Google screws up its hiring too. It hires people who can solve their set of puzzles (they are interviewed by random people who do not know the particular job they will be doing), which is not the same thing as hiring someone who's smart, or someone who's adaptable, or someone who does not think the same way as everyone else at Google. Seriously, from internal sources it's screwed up in some places.
How many jobs do you see that are truly entry level? That is, no experience required? The market is flooded right now with people with newly minted degrees who can't find jobs because they all require 3+ years of experience. Even more sad are the ones that require experience in enterprise-type tools you won't see at school. You're right that there aren't job listings for over 10 years - employers seem to want people who have been trained in by someone else, but are still early enough in their careers that they can still get cheap. The real entry level stuff can go overseas or to H1b's. Those experienced guys who cost too much? Don't need 'em.
I wasn't clear about the training, you have a point. I was meaning to say, if you can find smart people that have a skill set close to what you're looking for, but may not have 100% of the laundry list, then they're viable hires, provided you can get the morons in management to accept that the purple unicorn isn't out there.
And of course the resumes lie. If you're not presenting the best possible picture of your skill set on your resume, you're not trying. Sometimes people stretch the truth past the breaking point. Just like job descriptions lie, like employers lie, like managers lie, etc etc. Finding a job is such a bullshit process involving half-truths and outright lies that it's no wonder you find bullshit everywhere.
I agree with you about the confusion over what universities are for. Twenty or thirty years ago (around the time that I went) college was still affordable enough so that "getting an education" was as or more important as acquiring directly relevant job skills that would enable you to get a job once you graduated, and employers still had 'no experience necessary' positions that you could get at job fairs, etc. Today, college is so expensive that "getting an education" is indulgent fluff that's a waste of time and money, and employers expect that new grads magically have 3 years' experience for the mailroom. Universities still insist that "getting an education" is the important part, because that's what supports their business model.
Everyone's hiring process is screwed up in one way or another. Interviewing and hiring is hard. Most of the interviews I've had (programming positions) require that you spend at least 4-5 hours on site talking to everyone from a VP down to the guy who sweeps up at night. Most insist that it's relevant to make a candidate solve a programming issue freehand on a whiteboard without any of the tools that make it possible for them to do the work, or solve some irrelevant obscure problem like "how would you determine the flow rate of the Amazon river" (no kidding, I had that one once). For some reason "I would look it up, because it's a solved problem, and looking it up would take about 30 seconds" isn't an acceptable answer, even though anyone that had a habit of wasting their time trying to solve problems themselves would be a shitty employee. From what I understand, Google doesn't do that bullshit as much, and also has realized that having a degree or having a good GPA does not correlate to ability to do the job well. Their problem is that for some reason they think eight rounds of interviews is a good idea...
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.