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University Employees Suspended Due To Guest Worker Scandal

sethstorm writes: By sponsoring employees for use at an IT staffing firm, Wright State University may have broken new ground in guest worker fraud. According to the Dayton Daily News, 19 individuals were sponsored by the university yet ended up working for WebYoga, a firm controlled by (now-suspended) top Wright State officials. They also cited Wright State's exemptions regarding prevailing wage law and H1-b limits as attractive qualities. This has implications not only for the existing workforce, but to students that see the university putting its own staff ahead of them.

14 of 209 comments (clear)

  1. H1-b Visa workers need to cost the companies 2x by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    H1-b Visa workers need to cost the companies 2x what hiring a citizen does. The extra money should go to training for existing, out of work, citizens.

    As long as there is financial incentive for this program to be abused, it will be.

  2. Fallout by TrashGod · · Score: 4, Informative
    Dayton Business Journal:
  3. wow by Goldsmith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Department of Labor required international staffing agencies to pay a minimum of $61k for developers in Dayton. These guys (also in Dayton) paid $40k. Do the students know this was going on? Did the academic senate know this was going on? The staffing company paid the university to make this contract happen. Wow...

    Why do universities have an exemption for these rules at all?

    1. Re:wow by slew · · Score: 4, Informative

      Why do universities have an exemption for these rules at all?

      There are two H1B rules that people are generally not aware of...

      The first rule is the so-called "cap-exempt" employers. Although most companies have to compete for the limited number of H1b visa granted every year, some institutions are exempt from this cap (e.g., are allowed to hire H1b even if the limit is reached). Most research institutions have been granted cap-exempt status by the government, so H1b applications that go this route have more competition with other H1b's to get those positions. However, typically, these institutions still have to pay prevailing wages to such H1b employees, which brings us to the second little known rule...

      The second rule is known as the "safe-harbor" rule. During the H1b application process a prevaling wage determination must be made. Either the employer can request the Department of Labor to do one, or it can do a self-determined prevailing wage. However, if the DOL does the wage determination, it cannot be latter challenged (aka "safe-harbor"). Competitive companies often can't wait the 6-8 weeks it takes to get a number from the DOL so they often are margin up pay to make sure they can survive a challenge. Research institutions generally go the DOL certification route (because they are under less competitive pressure), and also often game the system to get a low prevailing wage (e.g., university staff can be paid similar to post-docs and would be comparable in this system even though that's generally on the low-side of prevailing wage). Also once a prevailing wage determination is made by the DOL, it can be applied to any number of applicants that have the same job description w/o resubmitting to the DOL with every applicant.

      That being said, it isn't just universities that exempt, but they are in a unique position to take advantage of both rules. They tend to be cap-exempt and they are hiring entry level folks with a reusable safe-harbor low-balled prevailing wage determination.

  4. Re: Sounds normal by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We got bought out by Paychex, but even that couldn't help us get any experienced people.

    Pay more. If you can't get experienced people, it's because you're not paying enough.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  5. Re: Sounds normal by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just like it happened in the auto industry, workers got used to high wages and are unwilling to consider the actual value of their contribution in a world where programming is now a commodity, so they end up replaced by cheap labor from a developing country.

    This kind of thinking is why US workers are in such deep shit. There are people who actually believe that setting a price for your labor is somehow bad.

    When a company sets a price on a product based on a desired level of profit, it's considered "the Free Market". But when a worker does the same thing we're told it's bad for everyone.

    It's the Stockholm Syndrome, and the supply-side is holding you hostage. You think everyone's wages should be on a runaway train to the bottom of the barrel. What's funny is how many of these same people think it's just horrible that low-wage workers come across to border to pick lettuce. It just may be that programming is the new farm labor and has become another job that US workers don't want to do, at least at the price that's on the table.

    Sooner or later, someone will figure out that labor comes first. It precedes capital. There is no capital without labor to make it happen. When you reverse the hierarchy, economies (and societies) suffer.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  6. Re: Sounds normal by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the problem with "pay more" is that there's often a huge discrepancy between what a company can afford and what experienced people think they're worth.

    It's a problem which fixes itself pretty quickly as the experienced people run out of money. Except they don't seem to be running out of money so someone must be paying them what they think they're worth. Therefore the problem isn't with them.

  7. Re: Sounds normal by lucm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    the problem with "pay more" is that there's often a huge discrepancy between what a company can afford and what experienced people think they're worth.

    It's a problem which fixes itself pretty quickly as the experienced people run out of money. Except they don't seem to be running out of money so someone must be paying them what they think they're worth. Therefore the problem isn't with them.

    Haven't you noticed the clear shift towards IT companies hiring less experienced workers? How often do you think people with 12-15 years of programming experience interview at Amazon or Google?

    Next time you hear about the talent shortage in IT and the companies raiding college to grab people who haven't even finished their degree, read the fine print. There's a shortage of IT talent in the 0-4 years of experience. People with more experienced are not considered. Remember that blog post? http://unemployable.pen.io/

    The IT world today is young staff and/or visa workers. Experienced people have to either accept a lower salary or hang on to whatever job they have, because they are no in demand. I'm not saying this is right, I'm saying this is how it is.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  8. Re: Sounds normal by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Someone putting his money at risk to run a business is a piece of shit, while the people who get paid by the week for their time are the real heroes.

    If someone is "putting money at risk" it's because someone, somewhere - did some real work.

    Don't take it from me, listen to Abraham Lincoln:

    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu...

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  9. Re: Sounds normal by lucm · · Score: 5, Informative

    Funny how that same reasoning doesn't seem to keep prices to the consumer from rising. And it sure doesn't influence CEO salaries. Why not bring in an H1B, there are plenty of well qualified European CEOs accustomed to working for a fraction of what an American CEO costs.

    I just did a bit of googling on this matter and it is truly amazing. Did you know that Yahoo's CFO (the chief bean counter) made 50% more money last year than the CEO of SAP? Yet SAP make 4x more money than Yahoo.

    Other interesting figures:

    HP: CEO makes 20 millions, (100 billions revenue, 5 billions profit)
    Microsoft: CEO makes 84 millions, (100 billions revenue, 12 billions profit)
    Apple: CEO makes 9 millions, (200 billions revenue, 40 billions profit)
    JP Morgan: CEO makes 20 millions, (50 billions revenue, 22 billions profit)

    and my favorite:
    Twitter: CEO makes 24 millions (1.4 billions revenue, -500 millions profit)

    Meanwhile in Europe:
    SAP: CEO makes 9 millions (18 billions revenu, 4 billions profit)
    VW: CEO makes 23 millions (200 billions revenues, 12 billions profit)

    Well I tried to find more European IT companies but there isn't a lot that are in the multi-billions dollars income bracket.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  10. Straight from WebYoga's site by sethstorm · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Understanding our clients' strategy, culture and business methodology leads us to fulfill their IT needs with custom and articulated solutions. Our results speak for themselves

    The results indeed do speak for themselves.

    1. Offering excellence in technology solutions, utilizing automation, creativity and innovation to solve client IT issues.

    They were quite creative in H1-b fraud by involving the university.

    2. Providing service to our customers and affiliates, based on the principles of professionalism, integrity and the spirit of partnership.

    ...for varying degrees of integrity.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  11. Re: Sounds normal by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well that's in the context of the North using slavery as a pretext to destroy the South's economy, so I'll take a pass on the infinite wisdom of this quote.

    The North "used slavery" to destroy the South's economy?

    That's some quality alternative history, right there. The South's economy was built on slavery, and Lincoln, you may recall, signed the Emancipation Proclamation.

    It really bugs you that an idea you ascribed to the "teachings" of Karl Marx was actually espoused by the first Republican president, doesn't it?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  12. Re: Sounds normal by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Informative
    The civil war was clearly about slavery. All you have to do is read the declaration of secession. Their only complain was about the North not respecting the South with regards to slavery. Here is a typical section of that declaration:

    A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

    After the war, southerners felt immoral for supporting slavery, and tried to come up with other reasons for the war, the famous "Lost Cause". Charles A. Beard was not the first of these historians, and he was not the last. Slavery was clearly the central issue.

    Which isn't to say that everyone fought because of slavery: some people had other reasons for fighting. General Lee didn't want the war, he liked the union. When war came, he found his devotion to Virginia was deeper than his devotion to his country (also, he had plenty of family members in Virginia and didn't want to fight against them).

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  13. Re:I've learned a bit about what "unqualified" mea by BVis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bullshit. Most jobs that require a degree could competently be done by a high school dropout with some additional job training.

    Employers want people with degrees because it's harder to quit when you're staring six figures of student loan debt in the face, so they can work you harder, pay you less, and generally treat you like shit.

    --
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.