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Big Pharma Hands Out Fitbits To Collect Better Personal Data

An anonymous reader writes: Since the dawn of modern medicine, there have really only been two ways to know what a medical patient is doing: A) keep them around and monitor them, or B) ask them. The first is often impractical, and the second is fraught with misreporting. However, we're now in the age of data collection, and medical data is no exception. Pharmaceutical companies are gleefully passing out Fitbits and other wearables so they can more accurately test the drugs they make. Early trials have already found such devices to be better than human memory at reporting things like how much a patient walks. Other organizations are using movement data to algorithmically decide whether a patient needs a higher level of treatment. The article optimistically adds, "Down the line, wearables also could help pharmaceutical makers prove to insurance companies that their treatments are effective, thus reducing health costs."

43 of 70 comments (clear)

  1. How DARE they! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How dare big EVIL Pharma collect accurate information that could ensure the safety of drugs and save people's lives!
    It's an outrage!

    1. Re:How DARE they! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      How dare big EVIL Pharma collect accurate information that could ensure the safety of drugs and save people's lives!
      It's an outrage!

      You are absolutely right! Any responsible company would charge their customers for this service, not give it away free.

      For example, AT&T charges their customers an upfront equipment fee and then a monthly service fee in order to collect factual information about their clients. As a result of their dedication, AT&T continues to win numerous awards for their corporate responsibility.

    2. Re:How DARE they! by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's one thing to use them on a voluntary basis in order to test the efficacy of a new drug. In such a case, it makes perfect sense.

      However, it's another thing entirely for a health insurance company to require their use (or face a massive premium hike, etc).

      Then again, on a slight tangent, I do find it interesting that more and more drugs are coming out these days which pretty much require the drug's use for, quite literally, the rest of your life (usually heart medications).

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    3. Re:How DARE they! by ComputerGeek01 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Then again, on a slight tangent, I do find it interesting that more and more drugs are coming out these days which pretty much require the drug's use for, quite literally, the rest of your life (usually heart medications).

      I love a conspiracy theory as much as the next geek, but this is not tin foil hat material. Things that are persistent for the rest of your life, such as pulmonary issues, are being targeted because the promise of repeat business is already there. They aren't trying to keep people sick because there is no need to; why risk everything and hope everyone else plays along when there are genuine gold mines sitting right there?

      What truly is disgusting is how ineffective they are. Yet they still get to market themselves as the miracle curest that they aren't.

    4. Re:How DARE they! by cdrudge · · Score: 3, Informative

      However, it's another thing entirely for a health insurance company to require their use (or face a massive premium hike, etc).

      They don't give you a massive premium hike if you don't use one. They give a massive hike to everyone and then give (potentially) a discount for those that use one.

      Auto insurance does it for the safe driving discount. Credit card companies did it for paying with credit cards over cash. Merchants were once prohibited by merchant agreement (if not state law) for charging a surcharge if you paid by credit card. They could however offer a cash discount. So just raise the prices by 3% to cover the merchant fees and you circumvent the whole no-surcharge policy. (Yes, I'm aware this provision no longer applies in merchant agreements.)

    5. Re:How DARE they! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What's disgusting to me is the number of people who lead a devil-may-care lifestyle and then cry and moan about health problems to only turn around and cry and moan about what modern technology is available to them.
       
      You want to battle "big pharma"? Put down the two liter soda, the doughnut and the grease burgers. Put down the xbox controller. Put down the smokes, the rum and cokes. Stop staring into the TV for 5 hours a day and take an hour out to move around a bit.
       
      Society had fed itself into the cycle of chronic illness but man, don't we have to pry those bad habits out of their hands?
       
      Now queue the 3% of those who are on a maintenance pharmaceutical regiment that legitimately are trying to keep up with their own well being but are still in a bad place.

    6. Re: How DARE they! by luisdom · · Score: 1

      And what an amazing discovery! That computery gimmick counts to 10.000 better than a human do! They deserve at least the Nobel prize...

    7. Re:How DARE they! by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      "Put down the two liter soda, the doughnut and the grease burgers. Put down the xbox controller. Put down the smokes, the rum and cokes. "

      So we won't be watching the game at your house, then?

  2. My kingdom for a hacker. by nimbius · · Score: 4, Interesting

    biometric technology originally fascinated and excited me. After spending 2 months hacking the fitbit flex and fitbit one im all but broken. the system uses asymmetric cryptography to ensure you never have independent access to the data it collects. the transmission protocol it uses is simple, ANT in most cases, but the private key to decrypt my footsteps and data lies solely on their servers. One would think that without independent evaluation of the data its gleaning, most major pharmaceuticals and insurance companies would be wary but that doesnt appear to be the case. like breathalizers and OBD/ECM monitors from car insurance companies, no one seems interested in their accuracy.

    my last 3 jobs have offered these fitbits. the first one, an option, subsidized the device. The next two jobs basically ordered it for me and stated that if i wanted a discount on my health insurance, id better strap in. the privacy policy for fitbit outright states theyre going to sell your data to other companies, like it or not. So why do people put up with this? does anyone know of an open-source and accurate alternative for the fitbit?

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by Voyager529 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Same here! I've wanted a Fitbit-style fitness tracker as well, but one that didn't require an account or cloud synchronization. I see no reason at all for a fitness tracker to outright require that data be uploaded to someone else's hard drive; all of the functions and accounting it performs can be adequately handled on my phone directly. However, no one seems to be marketing to this particular niche. If you find one, or if the Fitbit can be modded to exist in some form of 'local only' mode, I'm definitely in.

    2. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I see no reason at all for a fitness tracker to outright require that data be uploaded to someone else's hard drive

      Really? Is vendor lock in too obvious for you?

      If they sold you a device where you had all of your own data, and they weren't in the loop (with an EULA which says it's their data) you'd buy it once and they'd have no ability to make money off it and keep you coming back.

      However, no one seems to be marketing to this particular niche

      Because it doesn't make them money.

      So all of these fancy internet connected things? They mostly exist to provide your data to corporations, so they can lock you in, monetize and sell your data, and ensure you need to keep going back to them.

      Which means people need to realize they don't give a shit about what you want. You're just the meat puppet who buys the device to populate their data.

      All this crap which wants to connect to the internet and give you an app? It's about someone making money off your data. Me, I refuse to buy this crap.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Well, for starters, uploading it to their server means if you get new phone you don't lose all your old data. And encrypting it for transmission just makes good sense when you're sending personal data. If they didn't, this story would be about how 'insecure' and 'hackable' fitbit is. Because, you see, with you people, you just can't win.

    4. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by Voyager529 · · Score: 2

      I see no reason at all for a fitness tracker to outright require that data be uploaded to someone else's hard drive

      Really? Is vendor lock in too obvious for you?

      I was born in the morning, but not this morning. I'm poignantly aware that this is the reason; the better way to state my intended message was "I see no technologicalreason...". For some applications, there's a valid reason to require internet connectivity (WhatsApp, etc.). Fitbit is neither holding either massive amounts of data, nor doing complex data crunching, nor directly communicating with other users. Thus, from a practical standpoint, the requirement for data uploading is purely artificial, and not a technological requirement.

      If they sold you a device where you had all of your own data, and they weren't in the loop (with an EULA which says it's their data) you'd buy it once and they'd have no ability to make money off it and keep you coming back.

      Fitbit's subscription is for premium service, but the fitbit account itself is free. "making money off the data" makes sense for their own residual income, but if the data is locally hosted, there's no functional difference between that and a fitbit that's never used.

      However, no one seems to be marketing to this particular niche

      Because it doesn't make them money.

      So all of these fancy internet connected things? They mostly exist to provide your data to corporations, so they can lock you in, monetize and sell your data, and ensure you need to keep going back to them.

      Which means people need to realize they don't give a shit about what you want. You're just the meat puppet who buys the device to populate their data.

      All this crap which wants to connect to the internet and give you an app? It's about someone making money off your data. Me, I refuse to buy this crap.

      And today's golden 'duh' award goes to gstoddart! The post you responded to was explicitly stating that I haven't bought one - for myself or anyone else - for the same reasons.

    5. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by silas_moeckel · · Score: 2

      Yea because google has no function to store an encrypted blob?

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    6. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      biometric technology originally fascinated and excited me. After spending 2 months hacking the fitbit flex and fitbit one im all but broken. the system uses asymmetric cryptography to ensure you never have independent access to the data it collects. the transmission protocol it uses is simple, ANT in most cases, but the private key to decrypt my footsteps and data lies solely on their servers. One would think that without independent evaluation of the data its gleaning, most major pharmaceuticals and insurance companies would be wary but that doesnt appear to be the case. like breathalizers and OBD/ECM monitors from car insurance companies, no one seems interested in their accuracy.

      my last 3 jobs have offered these fitbits. the first one, an option, subsidized the device. The next two jobs basically ordered it for me and stated that if i wanted a discount on my health insurance, id better strap in. the privacy policy for fitbit outright states theyre going to sell your data to other companies, like it or not. So why do people put up with this? does anyone know of an open-source and accurate alternative for the fitbit?

      Buy a small dog that runs around a lot and strap it on with his collar.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    7. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      lol on the doggie running around all fit-bit strapped ;)

      I would have a serious problem being told that I HAVE to wear a tracking device if I wanted the normal price for health insurance. note, they are NOT giving a discount, they are increasing prices for others. I don't buy their bullshit shifting of 'discount'. its not a discount if its compelled and these days, saving money on a huge bill like H.I. is not really a choice you have. when you are struggling to make ends meet, its not actually your sole choice, much the way a 'wage slave' is still technically a free person but in reality, they ARE a slave.

      btw, which state/country do you work in? I'm curious. I'd also like to avoid any place that forces people to be walking data-sources for big business.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    8. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      Well, for starters, uploading it to their server means if you get new phone you don't lose all your old data.

      Available? Fine. Default? Fine. The problem isn't that such a service is available, it's that an artificial limitation has been made that actively prevents the bought-and-paid-for hardware from performing its intended functions independent of that service. There's no technological reason I can't store my Fitbit data on a MicroSD card. There's no technological reason I can't have it save an encrypted blob to Dropbox or e-mail it to myself if I want. Fitbit making it easy and seamless for people who don't care? That makes perfect sense. Fitbit actively preventing any other use case? That's why the OP and myself haven't bought one.

      And encrypting it for transmission just makes good sense when you're sending personal data. If they didn't, this story would be about how 'insecure' and 'hackable' fitbit is. Because, you see, with you people, you just can't win.

      Congratulations, you're today's first-runner-up for the golden 'duh' award. Yes, encrypt the data...AND GIVE ME THE KEYS. Not that hard. No one is arguing that encryption shouldn't happen, for the very reasons you specify. The problem is a matter of the entity who is able to decrypt the data, and that it's not the end user.

    9. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      Hi - I moved to France awhile ago and, other than missing my friends and family in the US (I only get over about once a year), I don't regret it at all.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    10. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by mrchaotica · · Score: 2

      And this, folks, is why Laissez-faire capitalism is a crock of shit. The only way to stop this would be for the government to step in and prohibit companies from stealing your data.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    11. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by sjames · · Score: 1

      It could, as others have suggested, store the data as an encrypted blob where I (not they) have the private key. It could send the data directly to my own PC at home. It could just hold the data until I connect the phone to my PC via USB cable. It absolutely does not need to share the data with any corporate entity at any time.

    12. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      That's not true. If there's enough people who don't like this "data theft" to force the government to pass a law, then there's a market for companies who don't do that. They'll have to market it right, and it'll be more expensive, of course, but the demand is there.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    13. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. At this point, most people don't think it's a problem. If they did, the market could fix it. However, since they don't, there's no reason for anything to change. The market is good at giving people what they want - in this case, they want a cheaper fitbit-like device, and don't care much about why it's cheaper.

      I never made that assumption. People are lying, cheating bastards, but the government doesn't necessarily made that better. However, the free market doesn't require complete information, nor honest players, and "rational choices" are damn hard to define. There never has been a perfect free market (one with your assumptions above) but there have been free markets. You're confusing "free market that works perfectly" with "free market", and that's a pretty big error.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    14. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by Rainbow+Nerds · · Score: 1

      I don't know about the accuracy, but MetaWare seems to be a fairly good alternative. You'd need to develop a wearable to put the hardware in, but it looks pretty good to me. Add in a good bluetooth heart rate monitor and your smartphone and you can duplicate the functionality of any fitness tracker out there while also being less expensive.

      --
      M-I-Z
      kU still sucks!
    15. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      After spending 2 months hacking the fitbit flex and fitbit one im all but broken. the system uses asymmetric cryptography to ensure you never have independent access to the data it collects.

      Well no shit. If they can't guarantee that the data they're selling to various companies isn't tampered with, it wouldn't be worth nearly as much. Otherwise every hacker would be wearing one of these that "proves" to their insurance company that they exercise like a paragon of health, and their vitals are like an Olympic champion's.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    16. Re:My kingdom for a hacker. by Hegsa · · Score: 1

      I suggest you check what the Finnish makers Suunto and Polar has to offer. I have been using Polar HRMs for some time and have been very happy with those.

  3. Re:Why just pharmaceuticals? by Coisiche · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not just medical insurance companies. But that will come when wearing of these devices are made mandatory, probably an argument along the lines of "well only terrorists *wouldn't* wear them". Then following an accident anywhere (on the road, place of work, whatever) the insurance company will be able to analyse the data about your physical state prior to the incident to find a reason why they won't pay.

    Wearing such devices wouldn't ever be mandated, you say? Sure they will, bribe... I mean lobby, enough politicians and it will happen.

    People wouldn't willingly concede even more freedoms to wear these things, you say? Yeah... right.

  4. The article optimistically adds.. by DirkDaring · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article optimistically adds, "Down the line, wearables also could help pharmaceutical makers prove to insurance companies that their treatments are effective, thus increasing health profits."

    Fixed.

    1. Re:The article optimistically adds.. by mrchaotica · · Score: 2

      That really ought to read "Down the line, wearables also could help pharmaceutical makers prove to insurance companies that their treatments are effective, thus increasing healthcare profits."

      Big Pharma companies don't profit from "health," they profit from "care."

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:The article optimistically adds.. by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      That really ought to read "Down the line, wearables also could help pharmaceutical makers prove to insurance companies that their treatments are effective, thus increasing healthcare profits."

      Big Pharma companies don't profit from "health," they profit from "care."

      Sure, but if they don't show that they deliver the former, people will be reluctant to pay for the latter.

      It is still a big problem, but I'd say that drugs are actually far better off than the rest of healthcare. How much clinical evidence do you think there is for half the advice your doctor charged you $80 to give the last time you visited him? The pills are actually some of the better-tested stuff on the healthcare market.

  5. Re:Gasp! by gstoddart · · Score: 2

    By which you mean "provide enough campaign contributions"?

    Throw in a "think of the children" and "becuz national security", and it won't be long. In order to keep us safe, you see.

    That it will also be heavily monetized is just a side effect.

    But someone somewhere is salivating at the prospect of the entire citizenry being tagged and monitored, and they'll say it's to defend freedom. Give it a a little more time.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  6. Of course they do. by AndyKron · · Score: 2

    Thus reducing health costs [for increased profits].

  7. Re:Why just pharmaceuticals? by thaylin · · Score: 1

    100? My fitbit cost almost 300...

    --
    When you cant win, ad hominem.
  8. Re:Gasp! by eedwardsjr · · Score: 2

    10 years ago I would have said you were delusional. 10 years from now it will probably be a reality.

  9. Re:Gasp! by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Interesting

    10 years ago I would have called someone saying that delusional too.

    But the last 10 years have taught me that almost nothing is too far fetched to believe. Years ago the nerds all went "yeah, right, they can't actually do that you know".

    Post-Snowden, however, lots of people are going "holy crap, we're not paranoid enough ".

    And there's so many people saying "well, if it's to protect the children or stop the terrorists it must be OK". Sadly, we seem to be racing towards a surveillance society, and people seem to not be outraged by it.

    I'm no longer kidding when I say such things. And that is scary, because it means being tinfoil-hat-crazy is now a normal state, and founded in reality.

    But always remember: All of this data collected by these things is pretty much under secret US jurisdiction, just like the stuff from Microsoft is. So, yes, Big Brother really is watching.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  10. Re:Why just pharmaceuticals? by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

    Not just medical insurance companies. But that will come when wearing of these devices are made mandatory, probably an argument along the lines of "well only terrorists *wouldn't* wear them". Then following an accident anywhere (on the road, place of work, whatever) the insurance company will be able to analyse the data about your physical state prior to the incident to find a reason why they won't pay.

    Wearing such devices wouldn't ever be mandated, you say? Sure they will, bribe... I mean lobby, enough politicians and it will happen.

    People wouldn't willingly concede even more freedoms to wear these things, you say? Yeah... right.

    Don't even have to take it that far. Just offer a 'discount' on insurance premiums for those wearing (aka raise the rates of those not wearing).

    --
    blindly antisocialist = antisocial
  11. Hope they are not using the wristbands by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    because I "walk" 8 miles a day when I am coding. It detects my typing style as walking.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Hope they are not using the wristbands by Dashiva+Dan · · Score: 1

      because I "walk" 8 miles a day when I am coding. It detects my typing style as walking.

      Anyone else now picturing Lumpy typing?
      Anyone else just realise they're picturing Lumpy as John Cleese?
      Oh, now you are... good.
      Funny, innit?

      --
      "lt;dr" is the correct response to most of my posts.
    2. Re:Hope they are not using the wristbands by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      I also walk like him as well.

      That reminds me I need to return a parrot.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Hope they are not using the wristbands by Dashiva+Dan · · Score: 1

      Oh yes, the, uh, the Norwegian Blue... What's, uh... What's wrong with it?

      --
      "lt;dr" is the correct response to most of my posts.
  12. Re:Why just pharmaceuticals? by thedonger · · Score: 1

    Not just medical insurance companies. But that will come when wearing of these devices are made mandatory, probably an argument along the lines of "well only terrorists *wouldn't* wear them"

    You say that like the edict will come from the right wing, and that may be a popular belief. But the left is the party that voted to mandate health insurance, and people went along with it because, a) they believed the "it's for the good of everyone that everyone have insurance" line; and/or, b) they accepted it because it came from their side. Granted, the established left and right in the United States is basically the softest game of tug-o-war in history; however, it seems to me that the "Fitbit Mandate" will come shrouded as "it's for the good of everyone that everyone have a Fitbit" rather than "The Gestapo says you will wear a Fitbit."

    People wouldn't willingly concede even more freedoms to wear these things, you say? Yeah... right.

    Sadly/Generally, the average person will follow along with what their chosen Party says they should do.

    --
    Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
  13. What a bunch of BS by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

    that their treatments are effective, thus reducing health costs."

    Never has something which is shown to be effective reduced costs. It's like being a safe driver yet your car insurance goes up every year.

    The only ones who will see the savings are the companies themselves. It will not "trickle down" to us peons.

    Remember how forcing people to hand over their money to private companies via Obamneycare was supposed to make health insurance less expensive? How's that working out?

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:What a bunch of BS by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Remember how forcing people to hand over their money to private companies via Obamneycare was supposed to make health insurance less expensive?

      Actually, it was supposed to make health care less expensive. In my household, it's working out quite well.

      Pre-ACA, my wife could not find a company willing to insure her at any level. Post-ACA, we pay $709/mo to cover both of us with a $3000 deductible and no copay. I don't use the coverage but, even having to pay to cover both of us at a cost of $8508/yr, plus her $3000 deductible (total $11508) we've spent over $20k less this year on her health care than we've spent in years past. The most we can spend on health care in a year is $14508 and that's if I actually use the coverage and meet my deductible for the year; at that point we're set to visit every doctor we can about every tiny nagging issue we have and it won't cost us a cent. In her case, though, it's giving her the freedom to pursue a $30k surgery there is no way we ever could have afforded otherwise, to resolve a chronic pain she's been dealing with for over a decade.

      If that's not a good thing, then I guess you're right, Obama has failed us.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  14. Re:Why just pharmaceuticals? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

    Which one did you get? Does it come with a pair of lips?

    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.