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Ask Slashdot: How Would You Introduce Kids In Rural India To Computers?

asto21 writes: A friend of mine wants to introduce school kids in rural India to computers and could use some advice. Key questions: What learning material to use and how to source? What programming language to start with? What software to introduce them to? What games to introduce them to? Key constraints: The kids don't know much English and speak a local language called Odiya. There aren't any technical publications/resources in Odiya. Poor internet connectivity. No computer experts on the school staff. Any other advice/help would also be appreciated.

23 of 218 comments (clear)

  1. Start with the basics. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 4, Funny

    FreeBSD, vim and python.

    Man pages are full of helpful stuff. You can set up a local ports/pkg jail. Setup a local Usenet and IRC server for Chat.

    1. Re:Start with the basics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      They don't need anything like that, they just need someone to help them get H1-B visas and they can learn on the job.

    2. Re:Start with the basics. by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sad but true.

    3. Re: Start with the basics. by bistromath007 · · Score: 2

      I really like how you ignored the problem's constraints and just recommended your favorite stuff most people in developed nations reject as educational tools.

  2. Hmmm ... why? by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is this better than literacy? Sex ed? Things which they can use? Like even English or math?

    Or is this the growing trend of "ZOMG ... teh children must use teh computers"?

    Coding? Games? Maybe your friend is missing the damned point and doing this as a vanity project?

    Everyone is so damned excited to ensure every child on the planet is being taught "teh computers", and nobody seems to be stopping to ask if that's what they need most (or at all).

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    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Hmmm ... why? by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Informative

      From reading the OP it is clear there were already plans for a computer learning lab, which exists to some degree.

      Oh, really?

      Key constraints: The kids don't know much English and speak a local language called Odiya. There aren't any technical publications/resources in Odiya. Poor internet connectivity. No computer experts on the school staff. Any other advice/help would also be appreciated.

      This doesn't sound like they have any infrastructure, expertise, technology, or a plan ... just "hey, let's show these kids computers".

      At which point, I seriously question if this serves any purpose or will improve these kids lives any.

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      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Hmmm ... why? by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This doesn't sound like they have any infrastructure, expertise, technology, or a plan ... just "hey, let's show these kids computers".

      Agree 100%. The submitter might have asked how they'd go about starting a space program.

      Teach them sex ed, hygiene, agriculture, and other basic skills that will actually help them survive. Knowing HTML isn't going to be of any bloody value to them at this time.

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      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    3. Re:Hmmm ... why? by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Well if we can use the internet to teach all that you listed and allow them to learn coding why wouldn't we.

      Except it sounds like they have no internet, no computers, no resources in their own language.

      Your being closed minded here.

      Or, perhaps, you're being hopelessly naive?

      We already see things about how technology doesn't magically solve education in North America and the like. People make these claims about how giving every kid an iPad or teaching them to code will do miraculous things.

      And the reality is there isn't really any evidence showing it's working.

      So when a bunch of people without backgrounds in education are hawking a bunch of technology solutions, with a distinct lack of evidence it will actually work ... my skepticism is well founded as all of these things smack of a bunch of amateurs saying "OMG, teh iPad will solve everything". They have no evidence or proof, and no expertise in teaching.

      The reality is, even in North America, this shit just diverts resources from things which actually work, and it really is vanity projects of tech people who make the claims that education will be revolutionized with technology.

      I'm not being closed minded ... I'm saying if they have no internet, no tech resources, the inability to get resources in their own language ... then I'm saying maybe it's better to look for things which can help and be useful, instead of just deciding that this will work and doing it even if it won't.

      As far as teaching them to code? I'm no more convinced a bunch of poor kids in rural India benefit from that any more than a bunch of poor kids in urban America. Because it utterly fails to address their most pressing educational needs.

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      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:Hmmm ... why? by TWX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Teach them sex ed, hygiene, agriculture, and other basic skills that will actually help them survive. Knowing HTML isn't going to be of any bloody value to them at this time.

      I don't know. There are some cases where skipping some otherwise-logical steps actually works. My dad grew up on a farm that didn't even get electricity until the 1950s, has a well for fresh water, and had a friggin' outhouse until the sixties when a proper septic system (far away from that well) was installed. He got a degree in computing science (then still a sciences program rather than engineering or business) and made real gains in employment compared to his siblings that just went into whatever local trades or jobs were available in the area.

      When my brother and I were kids he got us a PC (an 8088, already obsolete as the 386 had been out for a couple of years) because we had Apple IIs in school, even though his entire career was big-iron and minicomps and he didn't deal with PCs themselves other than as a user; we used the books that came with the PC to learn how to work with DOS and with BASIC, and while I don't work with DOS or with BASIC anymore, the command line fundamentals I learned have applied to a career working with CLI-based servers and networking equipment, and some of the lessons from BASIC have helped when working with scripting languages like bash.

      It's not that they have to teach all of these Indian children how to use computers as experts, that's completely unrealistic. What they need to do is to provide access to computers that those kids that want to experiment with can learn on, things that are fairly simple without necessarily having all of the bells and whistles. The computer-software equivalent of a Heathkit.

      Kids that become good with computers will probably become the first adults from the region to become professionals with them. They'll drive demand for new infrastructure for computers in the area and will develop the ability to maintain it. That will open up the area for more use outside of professional interest, which will in-turn help foster interest and will continue to help drive an increase in infrastructure.

      I don't know what to do about the language barrier, nor do I know what specific platforms and software would now make a good equivalent to that DOS/BASIC/8088 setup I learned on, but going to tablets with Windows 10 or going to fully-loaded Linux boxes with vi are probably not the right approaches. The TI idea sounds good, but the platform might not be quite significant enough either.

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      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    5. Re:Hmmm ... why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm CTO of a US company who employs 40+ people in India. I'll be taking my 5th trip to India this Fall.

      Teaching rural kids programming is NOT going to improve their lives. They are not going to get jobs in IT. I can hire developers who attended IIT for $3k/month. I need quality, not lower labor rates.

      If you want to improve the lives of rural kids, work toward skills they need for jobs they could get: waiter, store worker, laborer, farmer, driver, hotel worker, etc. They need basic math and language skills. English is really important.

      Basic computer literacy would be helpful, but programming is a waste of effort.

  3. Windows 10. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    They won't have to worry about passwords, they can log in with their smile. Let them grow up on Windows 10. A more human way to do.

  4. There are actual teachers in India, you know... by ZeroPly · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Your friend might not grasp this fully, but there are quite a few qualified teachers in India, who actually know how to use computers. A good first step might be to contact them, and see what they think, rather than asking a bunch of people on the Internet who haven't actually been to rural India. It's entirely possible that the teachers think kids should focus on basic subjects rather than learn Excel.

    Barring that, ask your friend to get a copy of a book called "The Ugly American" by Burdick and Lederer. I'm about 95% sure that he hasn't read it.

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    Support microSD: in a post 9/11 world, it is unwise to carry your data on media that you cannot comfortably swallow.
  5. First, listen to every talk by Sugata Mitra ... by stongef · · Score: 3, Informative

    This guy has a few clues on what can help, and he has done what your friend wants to do: http://www.ted.com/talks/sugat.... He might already have some project going on in India on which you can latch on to avoid re-inventing the wheel ...

  6. Stop the non-sense. by kamathln · · Score: 2

    What they really need is scientific and strategic thinking on how to take their life ahead, manage the village life, their farms more modern and productive, etc. in a smart way, etc. Simply throwing computers and computer education around without first giving them the fundamentals does not help at all. It just adds to the problem.

    That said there are many ideas:

    Write or install software where they can create friendly quiz for each other on various topics.
    Teach them how to draw graphs and interpret them.
    How to use maps.
    If there is internet in a far away school, let the children interact with each other over Video Chat once in a month with proper agenda on discussing something important.
    Really, there is no limit to how they can use computers to make their life more interesting and better , all limited by imagination.

  7. Walk before you can run... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Get them some clean running water, clean sanitation, and basic human rights before you go worrying about computers...

  8. Give 'em the computers and stay out of the way by taustin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As One Laptop Per child demonstrated, they'll learn on their own if given a chance.

    "Earlier this year, OLPC workers dropped off closed boxes containing the tablets, taped shut, with no instruction. “I thought the kids would play with the boxes. Within four minutes, one kid not only opened the box, found the on-off switch powered it up. Within five days, they were using 47 apps per child, per day. Within two weeks, they were singing ABC songs in the village, and within five months, they had hacked Android,” Negroponte said. “Some idiot in our organization or in the Media Lab had disabled the camera, and they figured out the camera, and had hacked Android.”"

    Note these are children who had never seen writing before, working with computers that did not include their local language.

  9. Teach curiosity and don't assume any knowledge by kilepa · · Score: 2

    A curious person will want to learn; without curiosity, anything is rote memorization and won't go far.

    Don't assume good electricity and don't assume internet connectivity; it may not exist. Don't assume basics like keyboarding skills and mouse movements. In fact, don't assume much. Learn from knowledge gaps observed elsewhere: A friend who tries to bring science to rural communities in Maharashtra starts by teaching kids about the difference between an analog watch & a compass. It may seem silly, but if a person has little experience with either may not know the difference. Back to the curiosity: get the child curious about how the compass always knows to point north. Then show how a nearby DC current (battery / wire / light bulb) can move the needle. To me, these give the grounds for engaging curiosity.

    Whenever the teacher then gets around to computers, a curious person will want to know why backspace allows corrections to happen, how a spreadsheet can do math, etc.

    And expect all levels within India as is true throughout the world: Each person is unique. Some people are geniuses awaiting discovery; others will be lazy or lack the natural talent to thrive with technology.

  10. odiya? They changed the name again? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2
    Before we teach these kids anything, we need to teach the local politicians to stop renaming everything in sight. This state used to be called Orissa and the language Oriya. Now they call themselves Odisha and Odiya. Bombay became Mumbai, Madras became Chennai, Calcutta became Kolkotta, Bangalore became Bengaluru. And these politicians with straight face list this name change as a great achievement in campaign speeches.

    They rename streets too. Streets named after British civil service officers ages ago get renamed after Indian dignitaries. These narrow short streets in the middle of town totally overwhelmed by population growth get renamed. At the same time in the suburbs roads named imaginatively 120 feet road, 80 feet road, 18th main road, 14th cross road, HAL Third Stage etc retain their difficult to remember names. A guy named A Brito used to write letters to the editor in Indian Express, Bangalore edition a lot when I was there. He got really fed up when they renamed yet another tiny street. He proposed to rename the Queen Victoria statue as Mayor Butte Gowda statue.

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    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  11. A bigger impact by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is this better than literacy? Sex ed? Things which they can use? Like even English or math?

    Or is this the growing trend of "ZOMG ... teh children must use teh computers"?

    Coding? Games? Maybe your friend is missing the damned point and doing this as a vanity project?

    Everyone is so damned excited to ensure every child on the planet is being taught "teh computers", and nobody seems to be stopping to ask if that's what they need most (or at all).

    Exactly. Take the money you were going to spend on computers, and invest that into helping to pay off the loans that farmers across India have had to take to keep their farms going. You know, the loans causing thousands of farmers to commit suicide every year leaving their families further in debt. Having a computer isn't worth bearing the brunt of your dead father's insurmountable debt for the rest of your life. And for the love of God, stop skipping over the basic, ugly things like running water, access to real medical care, and reliable electricity for the "cool" things like giving a poor, malnourished school kid a barebones PC kit and teaching them how to program Minecraft in a language based on their local dialect.

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    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  12. What nonsense by XB-70 · · Score: 2

    Here's how: stop writing over-analytical articles like this and just give kids a computer. They will quickly teach each other how to use it.

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    *** Don't be dull.***
  13. Get Wikipedia by Ken_g6 · · Score: 2

    This appears to be the Odia language Wikipedia. But I know you said there's limited Internet. So I suggest you get Kiwix with the entire Odia Wikipedia (.torrent link to a complete package for Windows), and burn it to CD-ROM. (Odia isn't a popular language, so it all fits easily.) You can also look at other language Wikipedias, both because they are more comprehensive, and because they could help the children learn those languages.

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    (T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
  14. Here ya go by morgauxo · · Score: 2

    Computer: Raspberry Pi
    OS: Inferno
    Programming Language: LISP
    Editor: Emacs
    Game: Leather Godesses of Phobos

    For the more artsy kids Tex can replace LISP.

  15. Teach English first by iamacat · · Score: 2

    Suppose the project was successful, how would the kids make any practical use of their skills or improve them further on their own? Learning English or another common language opens a huge window into outside world and access to knowledge in all subjects, including computers. Personally I grew up in Soviet Union and studying English rather than any less common foreign language in school opened up tremendous options later in life.