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America Runs Out of IPv4 Internet Addresses

FireFury03 writes: The BBC is reporting that the American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) ran out of spare IP addresses yesterday. "Companies in North America should now accelerate their move to the latest version of the net's addressing system. Now Africa is the only region with any significant blocks of the older version 4 internet addresses available." A British networking company that supplies schools has done an analysis on how concerned IT managers should be. This comes almost exactly 3 years after Europe ran out.

435 comments

  1. America! F-Yeah! by sinij · · Score: 5, Funny

    Out of IP addresses? Sounds like a good time to invade somewhere where they mine them!

    1. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Somewhere that they do mining? Those are places where they 3D print GPU farms, right?

    2. Re:America! F-Yeah! by prefec2 · · Score: 3, Funny

      They already found a new source of IP addresses which could support everyone with enough IP addresses to the end of time (which was of course yesterday or the day before or tomorrow, depending on your favorite Youtube oracle). However, the old IP industry does not want the new IP stuff, it might harm their business plans.

    3. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      USA! USA! USA!

    4. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 5, Funny

      They already found a new source of IP addresses which could support everyone with enough IP addresses to the end of time

      Another liberal scare tactic.

      We have plenty of IP addresses to go around, and any right thinking American knows that there is a controversy, and that not all scientists believe in this hogwash.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    5. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a huge opportunity for IP address brokerage. It's the gold & oil of a new digital era of prosperity!!! And don't be mistaken: As always, the money will trickle down from the rich to the poor!

    6. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The doomtube prophets seem to be quietly shifting their focus to next June, cuz obviously 6/6/*6 must be the end of the world...

    7. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 3, Funny

      This is a huge opportunity for IP address brokerage. It's the gold & oil of a new digital era of prosperity!!! And don't be mistaken: As always, the money will trickle down from the rich to the poor!

      When God closes one door, Ayn Rand opens another.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    8. Re:America! F-Yeah! by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Out of IP addresses? Sounds like a good time to invade somewhere where they mine them!

      I thought they pumped them out of the ground!

      Surely there's a country out there that needs some Freedom!

    9. Re:America! F-Yeah! by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Out of IP addresses? Sounds like a good time to invade somewhere where they mine them!

      Yeah, it's so hard for the big bad imperialist neo-con USA to just announce ownership of numbers

    10. Re:America! F-Yeah! by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Can't we just take the IP blocks from Africa and give to the nations that will actually USE them?

      I mean, it isn't like they're going to be in the internet age anytime soon (at least by what I see on TV) over there....so, why not divvy up the remaining ones by countries that need them, and when Africa gets ready to get wired up and going (if ever) then they can use the newer IPV6 stuff....when everyone is ready for it, eh?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    11. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, secreting IP out of countries with free markets was mastered in the soviet union,.

    12. Re:America! F-Yeah! by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 4, Informative

      Out of IP addresses? Sounds like a good time to invade somewhere where they mine them!

      If you want to invade somewhere with a crap ton of IPv4 address how about the DOD? They have an entire class A. They have more address than a number of continents.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Or how about big businesses?

      IBM 9.0.0.0/8
      General electric 3.0.0.08
      HP 15.0.0.0/8 AND 16.0.0.0/8
      Apple 17.0.0.0/8
      Ford 19.0.0.0/8
      Haliburton 34.0.0.0/8
      Hell the the US postal system owns 56.0.0.08

      There are far more than enough IPv4 address to last us several more years they are just sitting in the hands of people that don't use them appropriately.
      I am not saying that we should stick with IPv4, we need IPv6 in the long run it just should not be as urgent as it is becoming.
      What IANA should do is revoke their ownership of those addresses and give them 6 months or so to restructure their internal networks before assigning there addresses to the rest of the planet.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    13. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      New England Universities are hogging on multiple Class A subnets (One Class A subnet is ~16 million IP addresses, as compared to 2.3 million left with Africa). Better to 'invade' them and give freedom to millions of unused IPs

    14. Re:America! F-Yeah! by grahamsz · · Score: 5, Informative

      Like who? MIT Is the only school i see that still has a class A

      The most obvious people who should be giving them up are

      a) HP - who have TWO class As and I believe around 7 employees.
      b) Apple - have a class A and as far as I know don't run any significant external networking.
      c) IBM - kinda like apple. they did have a networking business at one point but I believe that's sold to AT&T now
      d) Halibutron - just why?
      e) Prudential Insurance - wtf? in what possible world do they need 16 million external addresses?

    15. Re:America! F-Yeah! by iONiUM · · Score: 1

      Are you sure the new IPs weren't found in some oil, maybe buried under the ground in the middle east? The US could liberate them, along with the oil.

    16. Re:America! F-Yeah! by bbn · · Score: 2

      You found enough /8 blocks to distribute one or two to each region. It would be gone within the week.

      APNIC and RIPE have been out for years now and ARIN is building up a waiting list. The demand did not just stop - there is a huge unfilled demand there that will soak up any stray addresses you can find.

      But the real problem is that there is no legal framework to force these companies to stop using the addresses. How much worth is an IP address that can not be used by an Apple device?

    17. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      Can't we just take the IP blocks from Africa and give to the nations that will actually USE them?

      And that would be enough for how long?

    18. Re:America! F-Yeah! by unixisc · · Score: 2

      Not just that, one would have to prove that the entities that need these IP addresses can't use the abundant supply of IPv6 addresses. At the client end, all the major OSs - Windows 7-10, OS-X/iOS, Android/Linux, BSD - support IPv6. The only ones that don't - Windows XP and earlier, OS/2, Amiga, and other ancient platforms. So the real pressure would be at the end of network equipment guys - the Ciscos, the Junipers, the Foundrys, the Brocades as well as the AT&Ts, T-Mobiles, Sprints to make sure they support it.

      And finally, the websites - they'll all need to have IPv6 paths to themselves as well.

    19. Re:America! F-Yeah! by musicon · · Score: 2

      Here's the rub -- if the company owns significant address space, they're likely using it for their internal systems as well, not external access only.

      I worked at Eastman Kodak for a number of years (who, at least at one point, owned a significant amount of public IP space) and we used public IPs for all of our internal systems as well, no NAT'ing private address ranges.

    20. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sitting in the hands of people that don't use them appropriately

      What IANA should do is revoke their ownership of those addresses

      What in the actual hell? Slow down there, Christopher Columbus, maybe those lands actually belong to someone else.

      Who the fuck are you to say that they're not appropriately used? And the answer is just take it and give it to someone else, rules be damned?

      Your statement earned a 4-Informative? This counts as critical thinking around here? Yes, it's informative that certain companies own large class A blocks, but how about informing us of the historical reasons for their allocation, and the rules that would prevent them from "just being taken away". I'd gladly call that kind of information "informative".

      And 6 months notice... LOL @ that. Couldn't imagine how much of a clusterfuck that would be at IBM.

      Anyway, 9/10, decent troll.

    21. Re:America! F-Yeah! by metamatic · · Score: 1

      IBM's using all those IP addresses, though. In fact, within the company IP addresses are in short supply.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    22. Re:America! F-Yeah! by omnichad · · Score: 1

      That's IPv6 day 2016! IPv6 addresses are the Mark of the Beast!

    23. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      If you were speaking of Kuwait, this would make some sense, though I don't believe that the liberation there led to the US owning any of the oil there. However, I am pretty sure you speak of Iraq, in which case, I just have to ask you why you believe going to war was easier or better than just relieving the sanctions and buying oil from Saddam? Why do you believe that that war was over oil despite the fact that we were at the time refusing to buy their oil, and could have quite easily. Saddam would have been very willing to sell us oil, he wasn't holding it back after all, he was looking for someone to buy up his stock.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    24. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Well, we did invent the internet, I suppose we could just take them all back. Maybe we can even claim they are our IP and everyone is using them without permission.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    25. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      f) Any community college that got a /16 in the old days.
      g) Any larger college that got a /16 in the old days and still runs their Web site over a CDN instead.

    26. Re:America! F-Yeah! by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      The problem is just that several years down the line when these "liberated" ip addresses are used up people will still be just as close to imlement IPv6 as they are today so it will just delay the inevitable and not create a vacuum in which IPv6 could be implemented in full scale.

      Frankly I don't see the big problem, my cheap ass Internet router is IPv6 compatible, all current operating systems including mobile phones are IPv6 compatible and so on. At work we run dual stacks on all our server with any problems what so ever, we even get IPv6 addresses from Verizon in one of our sites (imagine that!).

    27. Re:America! F-Yeah! by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      There are far more than enough IPv4 address to last us several more years they are just sitting in the hands of people that don't use them appropriately.

      Speaking of people who use them appropriately, those few companies are about the only people who are using them as intended. What do you suggest, split them up? Distribute them all over the world?

      Of interesting note is that a large majority of the internet will break if we add only 12000 more entries into the routing table thanks to the maximum table size on the most popular border route router on the net, which dividing up a /8 could easily do.

      Ok in reality I want to hope that a lot of people out there are playing the mad up grade game already with their routers, but the fact is splitting up IP addresses into ever smaller chunks is NOT using them appropriately OR as intended, and could have some very bad consequences.

    28. Re:America! F-Yeah! by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      90% of the population of Africa has access to a mobile phone. And you know this Apple pay thing that lets you pay using your mobile. They've been doing this for years using a system called M-Pesa. Yes, there are some backward places in Africa, but it is the same in the USA, with the Indian Reservations, rural villages in Upstate New York with no electricity and so on.

    29. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Several weeks. Sounds like a goof trade off. Cause massive disruption and waste thousands of man-hours of time just so the rest of the world can gain a brief instant of time.

    30. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      e) Prudential Insurance - wtf? in what possible world do they need 16 million external addresses?

      As an insurance policy.

    31. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Bengie · · Score: 1

      ARIN rules for acquiring IP addresses still apply to traded blocks, and those rules keep anyone from hording. ARIN has to authorize all transactions and even has something like an $8 fee for each IP traded.

    32. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps these addresses were allocated before there was such a thing as 'internal' or 'external' addresses?

      The RFC1918 address spaces weren't originally meant to be used for anything, they were to be used for documentation iirc.

      Apple? No significant external networking... are you smoking something? Can I have some, it's clearly some really good shit.

    33. Re:America! F-Yeah! by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      Like who? MIT Is the only school i see that still has a class A

      My alma matter in western Michigan had/has a Class A or B (I forget which). Somewhere around 2003-2005 they were told use 'em or lose 'em. So they did - all students (~4500) and staff then got a direct public IP address for their systems connected to the campus network instead of the previous 10.x addresses that were used. It still didn't use the entire range, but the were using it.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    34. Re:America! F-Yeah! by unixisc · · Score: 1

      For mobile phones, even Africa needs IPv6. Reason Africa is still on IPv4 is that their content is still there, and their terrestrial internet penetration is low enough to not warrant an IPv6.

    35. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      Yeah, IBM's the same way. All the addresses in the company are 9.x.x.x. Last time I checked, all their internet-facing addresses were in class C address space.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    36. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You found enough /8 blocks to distribute one or two to each region. It would be gone within the week.

      APNIC and RIPE have been out for years now and ARIN is building up a waiting list. The demand did not just stop - there is a huge unfilled demand there that will soak up any stray addresses you can find.

      But the real problem is that there is no legal framework to force these companies to stop using the addresses. How much worth is an IP address that can not be used by an Apple device?

      Apple's history shows that they will create their own incompatible/locked-down version of anything, so I imagine the same will occur with their version of IP.

    37. Re: America! F-Yeah! by Ulric · · Score: 1

      And then France would do the same.

    38. Re:America! F-Yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe start using the ones we already have? There is not shortage if we start using unused IP addresses... But I guess the IPv6 lobby don't want that.

    39. Re:America! F-Yeah! by antdude · · Score: 1

      As Americans, let's attack those companies and organization like we do for oil and other stuff! F**K YEAH!!!!!!

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    40. Re:America! F-Yeah! by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      Alamost all the Class-A assignments were made before ARIN and IANA existed (ie, personally assigned by Jon Postel) and as such are not ARIN/IANA property to take back.

      As for Afrinic, taking those would stave off the end of days by a few months at most.

      Grit your teeth, go to IPv6, get it over and done with. IPv4 was only intended to be in place for 5-10 years (in which case 4 billion was more than enough addresses).

      IPv6 is NOT hard. Classical 1 to many NAT on the other hand is a clusterfuck kludge and needs to die.

    41. Re:America! F-Yeah! by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Actually, IPv4 was never meant for the world's entire population. It was meant for only the US DOD and everyone they worked w/, for which 4 billion was adequate. Of course, people discovered that they could be used in more ways and extended their use, and ran into the problem of there not being enough of those. The IETF saw it correctly, and put together its plans for IPng, which later became IPv6

    42. Re: America! F-Yeah! by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      What? Take back all the wine and cheese?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  2. Arrrrgh! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    And just when I finally won the internet yesterday.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  3. Time to liberate some resources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not from American companies, you silly squirrel.

  4. Admission of Guilt by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    I just looked at my open wireless router, and I think I've got all the IP addresses.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Admission of Guilt by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Private addresses, like 192.168.x.x don't count

    2. Re:Admission of Guilt by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Hurry! Disconnect all the cables from it to keep them from escaping!

    3. Re:Admission of Guilt by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      That's silly.

      Connect one of a cable into one port. Form the cable into a spiral. Connect the other end into another port.

      Make the buggers dizzy!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:Admission of Guilt by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Also, don't forget to assign 127.127.127.127 as your computer's IP, that will fix all networking issues.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  5. TLS SNI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    At this point, ISPs need to mandate that customers use SNI where possible; too many IP addresses are allocated just for an SSL certificate. I think we'll start seeing more Let's Encrypt-type Subject Alternate Name management tools, too.

    1. Re:TLS SNI by ledow · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Agreed. If you aren't capable of using SNI, then chances are your server software, client, etc. are not fit to be on the Internet anyway.

      IE6, Firefox *1* (!), Chrome 4. If you're still using those, get something else immediately because your security of the certificate is then the LEAST of your worries.

      I'm waiting for the "Let's Encrypt" to start issuing certificates. When that happens, interesting things will happen in the SSL/TLS certificate market.

    2. Re:TLS SNI by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      You are so funny, posting on this http forum.

    3. Re:TLS SNI by gmack · · Score: 1

      At least where I work, SNI is done. The problem we have now now are sites hosted on their own virtual machine.

    4. Re: TLS SNI by ModernGeek · · Score: 1

      What is wrong with each site being on it's own virtual machine?

      --
      Sig: I stole this sig.
    5. Re:TLS SNI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly XP, on which no version of IE, even 7+ will support SNI, still has a non-trival market share. I say fuck the lagging 12%, but I don't make the business decisions.

    6. Re:TLS SNI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also forgot to mention Android versions older than 3.x do not support SNI on the built-in browser and thanks to carrier's failure to send updates to older phones gingerbread+foyo still has 9.6% market share, which I would also argue is non-trival for business decisions.

    7. Re: TLS SNI by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      If each site is on a seperate VM then either each site gets a public v4 IP or you add the additional complications of reverse proxies to the system.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  6. Not quite yet... by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 0

    I mean, not nearly yet. It keeps getting closer. But not yet.

    Soon, though.

    Soon, I am going to have a very fun week.

    --
    -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
    1. Re:Not quite yet... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      I don't trust the BBC, but ARIN's own site does confirm this: ARIN IPv4 Free Pool Reaches Zero

  7. A day which will live in famey. by TheRealHocusLocus · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    So far the day is going smoothly. I am comparing before and after photos but have detected no anomalies thus far.

    Having no ipv4 allocations available is like that very first day when the folks pumping gas at the filling station filled your tank but did not clean your windshield or check the oil. There was great deal of anxiety at first, but (thankfully) people kept arriving for gas and the country slowly adjusted to this 'new normal'.

    Then gas station attendants disappeared altogether.
    No one knows where they've gone.
    So if you work in IT, tie a string to yourself so we can follow it if you go poof.

    --
    <blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
    1. Re:A day which will live in famey. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In New Jersey, it is illegal to pump your own gas so the attendants are still there.

      I don't agree with the analogy, there's technology in place that is more versatile yet more complicated and there's the stop gap measure of forcing more and more NAT.

    2. Re:A day which will live in famey. by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and then where will you go? If you post here, you're likely in that field.

    3. Re:A day which will live in famey. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then gas station attendants disappeared altogether.
      No one knows where they've gone.

      They're all in Oregon, where it's illegal to actually pump your own gas.
      Yes, really.

    4. Re:A day which will live in famey. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it like illegal illegal or illegal and people just do it? like pot?

  8. Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    No thanks. IPv6 addresses are a mouthful, typically 3x as long when printed. We should move to a version that makes them 1 byte longer.

    1. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but what if we needed twice as many addresses. Then what?

    2. Re:Move to the latest version? by prefec2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As most people do not type these number and do not need to remember these numbers, I do not see any problem with longer numbers. Especially when there are methods to write them shorter than that: 0000::0000::0000::0000::0000::0000::0000::0000
      For example zeros ca be omitted. see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    3. Re:Move to the latest version? by ledow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you are typing or using IP addresses for ANYTHING other than you primary DNS servers, you're doing something wrong.

      Seriously - set statics on your DNS servers (which can even be IPv4!), plug that into your DHCP etc. servers. Done.

      This is the problem with IPv6 - those people whining about it aren't in charge of networks where it could be an issue anyway.

      P.S. likely your mobile phone and maybe even your cable setup has been using IPv6 addresses for a few years now. They are specified and necessary in related standards. Did you notice? No. Because nobody types in IP addresses any more, not even on their home networks, work networks, thousands of servers, etc.

      To be honest, MAC addresses are much more problematic to me, but I barely ever have to type those either.

    4. Re:Move to the latest version? by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem with switching is IMHO three fold, 1.- It is gonna cost probably a couple hundred million in routers and modems that cannot support IPV6, in fact if you look at places like Amazon and Newegg there are more routers being sold that doesn't support IPV6 even today than not, 2.- Years of treating IT workers as disposable means we simply do not have enough workers that can support all the headaches that are gonna happen with the switch, I know in my area most of the greybeards simply went into other fields because they were tired of being fucked by the MBAs, and my own personal beef 3.- Assigning everyone a unique IP means it will be trivial to track everyone, its gonna be meat on the table for your *.A.As and copyright trolls.

      So you can see why switching hasn't bee a priority for most, its gonna cost a mint, shit is gonna break everywhere, and I wouldn't be surprised if it will end up with a shitload of requests from the *.A.As spamming the ISPs as they will be able to argue that "IP address does not equal individual" no longer applies.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    5. Re:Move to the latest version? by amalcolm · · Score: 2

      Twice as many as IP4? Just one bit!

      --
      Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
    6. Re:Move to the latest version? by bigpat · · Score: 1

      P.S. likely your mobile phone and maybe even your cable setup has been using IPv6 addresses for a few years now. They are specified and necessary in related standards.

      This was the insightful part of your comment. So pretty much everyone is using IPv6 at least on mobile devices... which is pretty much everyone. It is just on older wired networks where you see IPv4 addresses only.

      It will be somewhat important to keep the cost of web hosting/DNS low to make sure that registrars are supporting IPv6 only DNS registrations. All the relevant technology and infrastructure should be in place though. More like making sure that web forms on registrars websites accept IPv6 registrations and such.

    7. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well it sucks for the minority of people who do type these numbers or would like to remember them. And who cares if zeros can be omitted if most addresses in the wild are incompressible?

    8. Re:Move to the latest version? by locofungus · · Score: 2

      as they will be able to argue that "IP address does not equal individual" no longer applies.

      No they won't. It will make no difference. The ISP will (presumably) assign a /64 (or bigger). I hope ISPs assign at least a /60 otherwise we're likely to end up with a huge mess of hacks in the linux kernel to allow subnetting of a /64 and also some form of autoconfig.

      If you use the privacy extensions then it will make zero difference. The RIAA will be able to tell that the traffic came via your router but not from which machine. And if you don't keep logs of which machine used which IP when then nobody will be able to tell which machine was involved.

      It may well make things harder for the *AAs. At the moment, ARIN requires that all your existing IPv4 allocations are in use (and hence documented in whois) before they'll give you more (so the data tends to be accurate to within about a 6 months timescale). When ipv6 comes along it's likely that registries will NEVER go back for any more addresses so will have no incentive to update those records. At the moment the RIAA can always tell which ISP an IP belongs to. That may well change in the future and there will be an extra step for them even to locate the ISP so that they can identify the subscriber.

      In fact, should more addresses be required from ARIN in the future, it may well be easier to setup a new company to request a new block rather than go back and update years, possibly decades, of records to show that you need that second block.

      --
      God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
    9. Re:Move to the latest version? by Wycliffe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No thanks. IPv6 addresses are a mouthful, typically 3x as long when printed. We should move to a version that makes them 1 byte longer.

      IPv6 was a poor decision. It's like someone who ran out of toilet paper once so they went and filled their entire basement full so they won't accidentally run out again. 192.168.23.17 compared to AB34:34ED:AB34:34ED:AB34:34ED:AB34:34ED
      As we're now pretty much stuck with ipv6, they would be better off locking out all the later bits until the transition is complete and make the ipv4 directly translatable. I.e. 192.168.25.25 becomes just FFFF:C0A8:1919 and all other ipv6 numbers are off limits until the transition is complete.
      FFFF:C0A8:1919 isn't much more difficult than 192.168.25.25 and would make the transition much simpler than giving everyone a ipv4 number and a completely different ipv6 address.
      Doing it this way, everyone could still access the websites via either their ipv4 or ipv6, it would only be the higher order ones that you would need to upgrade in order to access. Similar things have happened with phones and websites. When new area codes were introduced or new top level domains, a few people had problems accessing the new areas with older equipment if the older equipment was hardcoded somehow.

    10. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But that NAT....

    11. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not the problem with IPv6, it is easy to translate from IPv4 to IPv6 and back with a DNS like server. The problem is that all network devices have to be upgraded to use IPv6. This costs money in hardware costs, but it also costs money in lost revenue. ISP's can still charge a heft price for a fixed IPv4 address because they are so rare.

      It is just a lack of willingness to change and probably also a lack of expertise because it all sounds so difficult. Why change something that is working? Why train millions of people who a responsible for the IPv6 network?

    12. Re:Move to the latest version? by dave420 · · Score: 1

      So just use ::ffff:192.168.25.25 or DNS. Problem solved.

    13. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yup. This.

      A particular telecom company I know of is currently in the midst of switching out ALL of the routers / switches they purchased many years ago in order to diversify vendors. Fast forward a decade and they discover that none of the new hardware supports IPV6 at all. :|

      So, all that gear is getting ripped out and being replaced with newer gear that does support it. Probably been burning 2-3 Million / year for the past several years doing so. Have many more years to go before the project is complete.

    14. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What passes for "insightful" these days...

    15. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's really amusing about IPV6 is the subtle differences in setting it up within the various routing protocols. It's just different enough to be annoying as hell.

    16. Re:Move to the latest version? by Dagger2 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Copy/paste them. Or use DNS, it's hardly a new technology.

      And if you really can't do either, then pick your addresses better. If you pick addresses like 2001:db8:42:a57e:a92f:2c3d:30c5:7562 rather than 2001:db8:42:1::2 and refuse to use DNS for them, then you can't complain about how hard they are to remember.

    17. Re:Move to the latest version? by gmack · · Score: 1

      I hope ISPs assign at least a /60 otherwise we're likely to end up with a huge mess of hacks in the Linux kernel to allow subnetting of a /64 and also some form of autoconfig.

      You can already subnet a /64. MAC addresses are 48 bits leaving plenty of room for multiple subnets and you can go even smaller if you use static IPs or DHCPv6.

    18. Re:Move to the latest version? by PPH · · Score: 1

      refuse to use DNS

      There's always the hosts file.

      [ducking and running]

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    19. Re:Move to the latest version? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      No thanks. IPv6 addresses are a mouthful, typically 3x as long when printed. We should move to a version that makes them 1 byte longer.

      The reason that they weren't done that way was that down the road, there's be another occasion when every piece of networking gear in the world would have to be replaced, thereby causing every business to spend thousands, if not millions, of $$$. That's why the IETF came up w/ a solution that would presumably last if not eternity, at least a few centuries.

      However, the way IP addresses have been split, and a huge /64 assigned to the subnets makes me think that that would run out a lot sooner than they planned. Unless they at some point redefine it as 96:32 instead of 64:64

    20. Re:Move to the latest version? by unixisc · · Score: 2

      A lot of the concepts in IPv6 are new in that one need not remember them. Unlike in IPv4 where they have to be requested by the hosts, in IPv6, they are automatically assigned by the Router Advertizements and Neighbor Discovery. And most of them never need to be remembered or copied or anything. Also, in IPv6, each node can take multiple IP addresses, so one can always assign a static easy to remember address as one of the addresses if remembering is what is required.

    21. Re:Move to the latest version? by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 2

      No thanks. IPv6 addresses are a mouthful, typically 3x as long when printed. We should move to a version that makes them 1 byte longer.

      You know that's not much longer and it will not break anything, well at least that's what marketing told me. The engineers keep on telling me that even 1 extra bit will break everything, but what dot they know? Something about assumptions of 32-bit fixed size. Whatever that means? Aren't they paid enough to do their magic and satisfy the business requirements set out by marketing, instead of pushing back?

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    22. Re:Move to the latest version? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      IPv6 was a poor decision. It's like someone who ran out of toilet paper once so they went and filled their entire basement full so they won't accidentally run out again.

      There's technical reasons for the length as by assigning humongous blocks at a time routing is greatly simplified.

      But again why are you typing IP addresses? This is 2015! IPv6 even includes stateless auto-configuration so you don't even need to figure out which IP addresses to type into your DHCP server anymore.

      You're talking as if these are given out by hand. Giving a computer an IPv4 address or 2, or 5, should be absolutely no different in complexity, not for an administrator and not for an end user.

    23. Re:Move to the latest version? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Well, there is always the alternative - try continuing to use things that just ain't there. Like IPv4 addresses. IT workers would hate having to resolve multiple layers of NAT even more than going to IPv6.

      This will be like the Y2K problem, except that whereas everybody treated Y2K seriously so that come 1/1/2000, it wasn't an issue, in this case, issues will start cropping up at random

    24. Re:Move to the latest version? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      I think it has varied. On Verizon, they have been using IPv6. But on AT&T, the evidence seems otherwise

    25. Re:Move to the latest version? by fisted · · Score: 1

      0000::0000::0000::0000::0000::0000::0000::0000

      You can only have one double colon in there... As per the very rule you're educating us about.

    26. Re:Move to the latest version? by GuB-42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you have trouble remembering IPv6 addresses, you can write them in a text file, like this :
      1234:5678:9ABC:DEF0:1234:5678:9ABC:DEF0 mycomputer1
      1234:5678:9ABC:DEF0:1234:5678:9ABC:DEF1 mycomputer2

      Let's call this file "hosts". But I understand that copy-pasting can be annoying, it would be so much better if the system could use it natively...

      But we can go even further! Instead of copying this file between computers we could make some kind of way to synchronize and distribute these files so that it could be always up to date and accessible from anywhere, like some kind of distributed naming scheme (we could call this DNS). If only we had this...

    27. Re:Move to the latest version? by rahvin112 · · Score: 4, Funny

      How can you be so ignorant of how IPv6 works and still have the hubris to propose a modification that supposedly fixes it?

      Oh silly me, this is Slashdot.

    28. Re:Move to the latest version? by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

      I just provisioned a new phone on Ting, and in the GSM setup you have to do, you specify ipv6 on several settings in the configuration. Since Ting is an MVNO on Tmobile, I expect this would also mean Tmobile is also using ipv6 on the 3G/4G internet connectiion..

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    29. Re:Move to the latest version? by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      Some of the options DNS, mDNS and I am sure Windows has its own native approach.

      The truth is, IPv4 addresses are probably too many numbers for the average person anyhow. For a tech, they are probably remembered in a limited context/time period anyhow. Names are what is easiest to most people. The whole 'IPv6 addresses are too long' argument, is only valid when you don't have the right services on your network and even then is not a good argument for not moving to IPv6, instead it is just a hard reality of dealing with more resources. The argument is almost like not to growing a company, because you won't be able to remember everyone's name - accept change that progress requires or risk becoming irrelevant.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    30. Re:Move to the latest version? by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

      I'm using an HE tunnelbroker 6to4 to get ipv6, cuz CoxHSI... Using the fancy automatic shit to assign v6 addresses give you strange unrememberable addresses. So I set my machines to use a static v6 address and just use my /64 prefix AND the machine's v4 address.. Of course, since I only have a few machines on my home network, this is trivial, and certainly would NOT scale to anything larger.. Its kinda cool to post to a forum that shows your ip address on the bottom of your post and see an ipv6 addresss...Had to remember to mess with ip6tables to default deny on inbound.... I wonder how long it will take Cox and the other big cable guys to get their act together... Not holding my breath

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    31. Re:Move to the latest version? by unixisc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      IPv6 was a poor decision. It's like someone who ran out of toilet paper once so they went and filled their entire basement full so they won't accidentally run out again. 192.168.23.17 compared to AB34:34ED:AB34:34ED:AB34:34ED:AB34:34ED As we're now pretty much stuck with ipv6, they would be better off locking out all the later bits until the transition is complete and make the ipv4 directly translatable. I.e. 192.168.25.25 becomes just FFFF:C0A8:1919 and all other ipv6 numbers are off limits until the transition is complete. FFFF:C0A8:1919 isn't much more difficult than 192.168.25.25 and would make the transition much simpler than giving everyone a ipv4 number and a completely different ipv6 address. Doing it this way, everyone could still access the websites via either their ipv4 or ipv6, it would only be the higher order ones that you would need to upgrade in order to access. Similar things have happened with phones and websites. When new area codes were introduced or new top level domains, a few people had problems accessing the new areas with older equipment if the older equipment was hardcoded somehow.

      The stuff you are describing was initially contemplated, which is why we had IPv4 compatible addresses (::192.168.2.5) and IPv4 mapped addresses (::ffff:192.168.2.5). Problem was that that wasn't a simple way to resolve the addresses due to NAT in IPv4 among other things, which is why you have different transition mechanisms. Some of them have been used, like 6rd, Dual-Stack lite, Teredo, et al.

      The toilet paper analogy is not quite correct. Rather, it's more like a case of discovering a new fuel that's a million times cheaper than gasoline, doesn't emit greenhouse gases, but which would require all engines worldwide to be changed. Since that would be an expensive process, the guys who design the replacement engines are working w/ the fuel engineers to ensure that the engines would never need to be redesigned again. In the case of IPv4, even making it 33 or 40 or 64 bits would have required an overhaul of all the world's networking gear, which is why the jump was made to 128 bits.

    32. Re:Move to the latest version? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      NAT was something they had to do in IPv4. It's voluntary in IPv6, since you now have NAPT. This does things that people want, like abstracting internal networks from external ones and enabling multi-homing, while avoiding port consumption by making NAPT a 1:1 instead of a many:1 loading of addresses.

    33. Re:Move to the latest version? by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      Yes, and my inability to provide a syntactical correct address example invalidates my argument? Nope.

    34. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Copy/paste them.

      Or if the address is on another computer, then use a network share or a USB stick to transfer it.

    35. Re:Move to the latest version? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      It is gonna cost probably a couple hundred million in routers and modems that cannot support IPV6

      ...if you attempted to replace them all at once today. No one does that. Instead, IPv6 support will become a bullet point for purchasing replacements for EOL hardware and we'll transition to it naturally as IPv4-only hardware falls by the wayside.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    36. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you also need to chant his initials backwards three times while typing that in order to summon the demon.

    37. Re: Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go hard or go home, am I right?

      Where has my country gone?

    38. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IPv6 was a poor decision. It's like someone who ran out of toilet paper once so they went and filled their entire basement full so they won't accidentally run out again. 192.168.23.17 compared to AB34:34ED:AB34:34ED:AB34:34ED:AB34:34ED

      Exactly! Whatever happened to IPv5, anyway?

    39. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't anyone know what AAAA records are for these days?

    40. Re:Move to the latest version? by fisted · · Score: 1

      Did I say it would? Nope.
      If I wanted to invalidate your argument I'd have pointed out that you normally don't get to double-colon away more than two or three components of the address, thanks to the universally recommended and implemented /64 split, so even "short" ip6 addresses are still significantly longer than ip4 ones..

    41. Re:Move to the latest version? by bbn · · Score: 1

      Actually my IPv6 address is:

      2a00:7660:349::

      Notice how it is _exactly_ the length of your proposal? I also happen to be able to remember it...

      Ok, it is the address of my router, from where I can do port forwards etc, just like we used to do. So if you ssh into that, you will get to my server.

      My other devices have longer addresses. Such as 2a00:7660:349::2. Yes there is a thing called DHCPv6 that allows one to assign short addresses to devices.

      And because the ISP only controls the first 48 bits of the address, every device of mine gets to have an IP address and I was the one that decided the parts that might need to be remembered (the "2" from before).

      It is true that most people will just let their network do auto configuration, which will then result in random and long addresses. That is because these days people generally do not care about IP-addresses. But it is your option - you can get it nice and clean if you are one of the few that cares.

    42. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So how do you scp a file from your desktop to your laptop without running a bind server?
      Do you need a bind server on each machine?
      What does this IPv6 stateless auto-config do, and how does it pick the name to give for the host?
      Can all devices really work like that?

    43. Re:Move to the latest version? by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

      ...I wouldn't be surprised if it will end up with a shitload of requests from the *.A.As spamming the ISPs as they will be able to argue that "IP address does not equal individual" no longer applies.

      Eeep. I never thought of that; a number longer than Jacob Marleys' chain of boxes, following you forever. It's starting to feel like ipv6 was a collaboration between the NSA and Satan (beast numbers!).

    44. Re:Move to the latest version? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      So what happens when your ISP changes your 2a00:7660:349 to something else?
      All your shit like 2a00:7660:349::2 is fucked.

    45. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you have to install DHCPv6 on each machine?
      Because the router doesnt have that. IPv6 not supported. And neither does the ISP support it.

    46. Re:Move to the latest version? by hjf · · Score: 1

      You CAN subnet a /64 but it won't work for SLAAC anymore. You definitely need a /64 for every subnet.
      BTW, MAC-based addresses have fallen out of fashion (see IPv6 privacy extensions).

    47. Re:Move to the latest version? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      There's technical reasons for the length as by assigning humongous blocks at a time routing is greatly simplified.

      OTOH by discouraging NAT they encourage people to apply for PI space. PI space is the enemy of efficient routing.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    48. Re:Move to the latest version? by hjf · · Score: 1

      Or, you know, technology upgrades. My ISP finally switched from ADSL to VDSL and they have to replace all CPEs (about two million of them) anyway.

    49. Re:Move to the latest version? by hjf · · Score: 1

      You use a DNS server. No one calls it a BIND server.
      No, you don't need a "bind" server on each machine (good lord, it proves you know nothing about networks)
      IPV6 stateless basically picks a COMPLETELY RANDOM address for your PC.
      and yes, all devices can and do work like that.

    50. Re:Move to the latest version? by hjf · · Score: 1

      you really think we will "soon" run out of 2^64 networks?
      that's 4 billion times the NUMBER OF AVAILABLE IPs nowadays.
      it means if the planet has 8 billion people, each PERSON can have TWO BILLION /64s
      each /64 hosting 4 billion times 4 billion CURRENT INTERNETS...

    51. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But I still need a DNS server.

      So I install a DNS server on the desktop. Ok great. I point my devices to resolve names to IPv6 addresses via this DNS server on my desktop.
      Now I switch off my desktop and use my laptop.... so now I can no longer resolve names to IPv6 addresses?

      No, the local Internet router cannot support IPv6. So that isn't an option.

      So maybe I need a DNS server on each device, and have some sort of DNS federation across all devices, but how does that work with old smartphones on the wifi? Remember, the router I have nor the ISP supports IPv6.

      With IPv4, the addresses were short enough that most people could remember the addresses if need be, and didnt need to run a DNS server. IPv6 seems to push us all into being network admins requiring a lot of infrastructure to be present in order to do this. I say "seems" because I've never tried to setup an IPv6 network, so I could be completely wrong. Anyway, Bind is the only DNS server I heard of.

    52. Re:Move to the latest version? by bbn · · Score: 1

      They wont because my ISP makes static allocations to every customer. But if you have another ISP with a poor policy, then you can use a private range such as fd00::/64 for your internal network.

      fd00::2 is shorter than 192.168.1.2 if we are still at that...

      Yes you are supposed to put in something random in the fd00 style address. But nothing stops you from ignoring that. It is just so that your VPN to your employer does not collide unnecessary with your home network, but if both of you choose to use the same range, you are no worse off than if the same thing happened on IPv4.

      For the average customer this is no issue however. They are in don't care about IP-addresses boat. If the ISP changes your prefix, your internal network will just renumber too and nobody notices.

    53. Re:Move to the latest version? by hjf · · Score: 1

      Multicast DNS you fucking cunt.
      And if your router doesn't support IPv6 you're an idiot. Upgrade it to DD-WRT or get a new one.
      You're a dense motherfucker, you don't know shit around networking, and you're trying to lecture everyone about problems that HAVE BEEN SOLVED FOR AGES.

      Fuck off.

    54. Re:Move to the latest version? by bbn · · Score: 1

      You are wrong. My router does have DHCPv6 and so does every OS (Linux, Mac and Windows) on my network.

      You will find that basically 100% of the new generation routers (those with 802.11ac radios) come with full fledged IPv6 support these days. Including DHCPv6 support.

      As to the ISP that seems to depend entirely on what country you live in. Some countries have very high penetration now. The rest of the world will follow.

    55. Re:Move to the latest version? by hjf · · Score: 1

      Also you "didn't need" a IPv4 dns because you have like 5 devices in your network. But i know idiots like you, idiot's who don't believe in DHCP or DNS, and who just static address everything.

      And then wifi comes along, with DHCP almost mandatory for mobile devices, and struggle to figure out how the hell they're going to handle the mess of fragmented IPv4 addresses they have in hand right now.

      Fucking amateur.

    56. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes I'm dense with this stuff.
      I wasnt trying to lecture.
      I was hoping you would teach me something about this, but I am left feeling empty.

    57. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does the DNS get configured again?

    58. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't have static addresses in /etc/hosts other than one for the router.
      Is there something automatically installed by Ubuntu that gives me all this? How do I test?
      eth1 does have an IPv6 address with fe80:: prefix, and it's unclear how I would test an IPv6 network with this autoconfigured addressing.
      Does the autoconfigured stuff rely on the DNS that you mentioned, or is this part of the v6 protocol and sorts itself out a bit like ZeroConf?

      I do believe in DNS and DHCP, otherwise I would not be connected to the Internet. But seems too hard to get IPv6 going given that the firmware and software on my hardware doesnt support it. Neither does the ISP.

      In the other post, you mention multicast DNS. How does this work? Do I need only one DNS server with a multicast option turned on, but the machine needs to be running all the time? Or install in on all machines and the instances talk to each other?

    59. Re:Move to the latest version? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I just get skipper to yell for him. KOWALSKI!

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    60. Re:Move to the latest version? by hjf · · Score: 1

      i suggest you start reading on ipv6. it's really not that hard. you're making it overly complicated and assuming things simply because YOU DONT KNOW STUFF.

      just start reading on networking: ipv4 and ipv6, both.

      fe80 is called a link-local address. it's a complicated concept. it's not the same as an autoconfigured (SLAAC) address which is global and can be created by EUI-64 (based on your MAC) or a temporary IPv6 addres, which is also autoconfigured by SLAAC but it's temporary (lasts for 1 hour or so) and it's used to keep your privacy on the internet. it's a completely random IP.

      and you can get a tunnel working NOW with www.tunnelbroker.net for FREE.
      this has been available since AT LEAST 2002 when i first tried it.

    61. Re:Move to the latest version? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      You use the DNS server built into your internet router.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    62. Re:Move to the latest version? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Tell me again what the benefit of PI space is compared to PA space in a world where we have more IP addresses than atoms? I would expect my PA address to change precisely once in the life of the network, when I first connect, and that's it. If I move house or change providers than it follows I'll have a different address, but why would that affect me? So my network devices end up with a different set of first x number of bits, big deal.

      The reason they discourage NAT is the same reason that PI becomes irrelevant.

    63. Re:Move to the latest version? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      scp your_username@laptop:foobar.txt /some/local/directory

      No different from how I do it right now. Not typing IP addresses has nothing to do with IPv6, it has to do with it's 2015 and we have many technologies that make it seemingly irrelevant what IP address you have. I don't know what my IP address is right now but I can SCP to it. I can't even tell you by which mechanism the IP resolves. It may be DNS, it may be a WINS server, it may be via netbios broadcast. The only thing certain is that its not using a hosts file.

    64. Re:Move to the latest version? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      But I still need a DNS server.

      Why? I don't have one yet I still see all the devices on my network by name and not number.

      Welcome to 2015. No ... welcome to 2001.

    65. Re:Move to the latest version? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      You do that so well, it is almost like you have had management training.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    66. Re:Move to the latest version? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      The only place I can see needing to know the address is when plugging it into a server to get a static address (DHCP is very bad for servers for numerous reasons), and also plugging it into the router to pipe ports to servers. But in both of those places, copy and paste works great!

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    67. Re:Move to the latest version? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Why would the ISP change your address? It's not like they are running out of IPv6 addresses. Heck I've had the same static IPv4 address for the last 6 years on my cheap arse (as in cheapest available in the country) consumer ADSL plan.

      Maybe if your ISP is changing your IPv6 address then you chose a wrong ISP and should tell them to return to the zoo from which they escaped.

    68. Re:Move to the latest version? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      This one is easy. Let's say you are Acme International, Inc w/ divisions in Santa Clara, Kyoto, Bangalore, Johannesburg, Netanya and Rio. Your company has to buy address blocks from ARIN, APNIC, AFRINIC, RIPE and LACNIC. In short, your IT department has to deal w/ 5 organizations to get something that it can get from one and distribute among all 6 branches. Note that allocation policies vary - while ARIN liberally distributes /48s, RIPE and APNIC dole it out in /56s. Different pricing structures w/ each agency.

      With PI addresses, your IT department simply goes to ARIN, gets a single block and goes from there. Let's say they get 2001:db8:ace::/48. They can assign 2001:db8:ace:1::/52 to Santa Clara, :2::/52 to Kyoto and so on. That way, they also have Netanya and Bangalore within the same network, albeit connected by the ISPs servicing them in both places. From a budgetary standpoint, it's straightforward, and from IT's standpoint too. They have 1 block of addresses, and each office decides how to assign subnets and so on.

      However, like Peter said, that makes routing tables a bitch, since now, under 2001:db8:ace, you have, depending on the subnets, one network in the US, another in Israel, another in India and so on. The ideal goal of IPv6 would have been to have a hierarchical setup whereby the first 2 words of the address would have given you the geography of where that address is. For routing tables, they would then just have to drill down. But that's not how it can be if PI addresses are used.

    69. Re:Move to the latest version? by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      If you are typing or using IP addresses for ANYTHING other than you primary DNS servers, you're doing something wrong.

      There is one thing I don't understand (please enlighten me): who tells my DNS server what IPv6 address was autoconfigured for a particular machine?

    70. Re:Move to the latest version? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Internet Stream Protocol. Always experimental, but not used for IP addressing purposes.

    71. Re:Move to the latest version? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      It's not the function of anything physical. Rather, shortages happen when one tries to lend structure to it, as was originally conceived when they contemplated using, for instance, hierarchical routing to simplify routing tables (which was a major reason it was blown from 64 to 128 bits). Once you try to say something like 2610 should mean ARIN, then the next word, say 2a4f should mean Charter Spectrum in Alpharetta, then the next word cae would be Deloitte and then next thing would mean whatever Deloitte's IT assigns it, that rapidly narrows down the number of options to 2610:2a4f:cae::/48.

      Actually, my criticism here has been about 64 bits being assigned to the interface ID. Overkill even for something like auto configuration. Instead, global network address should have been left the full 64-bits, and from the remaining 64-bits, split should have been done - maybe 16:48 or 32:32. That way, any organization that needed either a lot of subnets or a lot of structure in their subneting could have something like a51a:65:1a2b:3c4d, while optimal routing tables could have determined the global address assigned to it.

    72. Re:Move to the latest version? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      More importantly, things like DAD, ND and RAs will stop working

    73. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does the DNS get configured again?

      Using "zones" and an ORIGIN directive of course.

      If you are typing in full IPs (v4 or v6) you are doing it horridly wrong.

      You create a single zone for your IP block, be that "192.168.1." or "2001:db8:42:a57e:a92f:2c3d:30c5:"
      Within that zone you add PTR records that consist only of the last octet (or whatever you call an IPv6 part)

      You enter "1" not "192.168.1.1", and "2" not "192.168.1.2"

      Now if you can't remember a single 8 or 16 bit number, then sure you have a valid complaint about all IPs in general, but that isn't anything new with IPv6 since if you can't remember "::1" is your router and ":a" is your first PC, then you probably can't remember "1" is your router and "10" is your first PC right now in IPv4 either.

      But the point network engineers are making is that we as network engineers CAN remember IPs, generally because we are the ones defining the subnet divisions and purposes or assignments as the network evolves, and it is us network engineers that actually have to deal with IP day-in and day-out.

      The fact it is harder on you (whom really doesn't matter from an ISP/backbone point of view) doesn't much matter, it matters what the network engineers can and can't do with it. And we can remember a single number just fine thank you very much :P

    74. Re:Move to the latest version? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Had to remember to mess with ip6tables to default deny on inbound

      Don't you have a stateful firewall that blocks all incoming traffic by default?

    75. Re:Move to the latest version? by Aqualung812 · · Score: 1

      who tells my DNS server what IPv6 address was autoconfigured for a particular machine

      Your client should be telling the DNS server directly. DDNS.

      --
      Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    76. Re:Move to the latest version? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      As we're now pretty much stuck with ipv6, they would be better off locking out all the later bits until the transition is complete and make the ipv4 directly translatable. I.e. 192.168.25.25 becomes just FFFF:C0A8:1919 and all other ipv6 numbers are off limits until the transition is complete.

      They did do this, it's a standard already. Not to mention dual-stack. http://www.tcpipguide.com/free...

    77. Re:Move to the latest version? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      My ISP does change my address occasionally, for no reason.
      It's not a question of "why" (because they're stupid, that's why everybody does everything), but a question of "when".

      Using a private range is the "solution", but to be externally reachable, you need to employ some sort of translation of the network addresses, and poke holes as appropriate. I propose will call this "Translation for Addresses on Networks", or TAN.

    78. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For example zeros ca be omitted.

      However the letter N should not be.

    79. Re:Move to the latest version? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      They loosened the rules on IPv6 addresses and allow multihoming via more than one ISP.

    80. Re:Move to the latest version? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      "DNS" works on my network without a DNS server. Has worked this way for at least a decade. I can even result my printer by name without a DNS server. They have had local subnet multicast P2P DNS protocols for a long while now.

    81. Re:Move to the latest version? by bbn · · Score: 1

      The majority of internet service providers will give you a /48 prefix. Meaning that you decide what to do with the remaining 80 bits. If you make them all zero, your IPv6 address can indeed be shorter than the typical IPv4.

      Example:

      2001:db8:123:: (that would be your router)
      2001:db8:123::2 (that would be your web server or whatever).
      2001:db8:123::3 (that would be your mail server or whatever).

      Compare to:

      198.51.100.250 (that would be your router - and also your web/mail server because it is all you got).

    82. Re:Move to the latest version? by bbn · · Score: 1

      Nope, all three protocols will work fine with any prefix size. Only SLAAC need a /64 prefix

      If you did a /120 you would use RA to tell your network about it. You would then need to set the managed config flag, so your devices can use DHCPv6 to acquire an address. After getting an address through DHCPv6 the devices will use the DAD process to check that the address is unused. And they will use ND to be able to communicate with other devices.

    83. Re:Move to the latest version? by bbn · · Score: 1

      Try "Network Prefix Translation" instead: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rf...

      "This document describes a stateless, transport-agnostic IPv6-to-IPv6
            Network Prefix Translation (NPTv6) function that provides the
            address-independence benefit associated with IPv4-to-IPv4 NAT
            (NAPT44) and provides a 1:1 relationship between addresses in the
            "inside" and "outside" prefixes, preserving end-to-end reachability
            at the network layer."

      Although personally I believe it is seldom needed. In practice a IPv6 home network can renumber every device within 30 seconds of the ISP changing the prefix on you. That is less time than it takes for your CPE router to reboot.

    84. Re:Move to the latest version? by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Do they still have it in windows 8-10? Seems like the only time I type an IP address is when I'm trying to ping the name server anyway.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    85. Re:Move to the latest version? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The ideal goal is the same for IPv4. I'm still struggling to see what the practical difference between 4 and 6 is in the cases you've mentioned. By all accounts it looks like the situation continues as it does now, namely: Providers give IP pools and the company then adjusts routing accordingly, (presumably they would have a VPN between their networks anyway so right now they would need to take this connection into account via routing), or ARIN gives them a pool and the entries need to go into the internet's core routing table?

      Isn't this the same for 4 and 6? And if you really feel like killing a kitten you could always NAT IPv6.

    86. Re:Move to the latest version? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      It's not a question of when, it's a question of getting a competent ISP. Some ISPs are tight and chop and change IPs at a whim because they don't have enough. That should change with IPv6. Many ISPs offer a service with a guaranteed static IP address. It sounds like you want to run a critical service on cheap consumer grade connections. Don't do that.

    87. Re:Move to the latest version? by ledow · · Score: 1

      And, thus, people like yourself don't understand enough to be worried about having to plug in an IPv6 address anyway.

      Seriously, do you sit and hand-craft your local DNS zones for each individual machine? That's where you're going wrong, not having to put in a long IPv6 address.

    88. Re:Move to the latest version? by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      And, thus, people like yourself don't understand enough to be worried about having to plug in an IPv6 address anyway.

      Who is going to do it on my LAN if not me?

      Seriously, do you sit and hand-craft your local DNS zones for each individual machine?

      No, I run a DHCP server that dynamically updates my DNS server. However with IPv6 we are supposed to do away with DHCP and can use something like radvd. With that however the address is created by the client and the client has to update the DNS server. That means that rather than keeping the DHCP server up to date and keeping the DDNS signing key secure on one machine, I have to do that now on all clients. Mhm, perhaps DHCPv6 still isn't such a bad idea ... um ...

      Perhaps people like yourself could do a better job explaining it to the noobs like me?

    89. Re:Move to the latest version? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Theoretically, maybe, but practically, given the shortage of IPv4 addresses, PI addresses are generally out of the question, unless you are an HP or IBM or AT&T who got those Class A's somewhere in the 80s. So in the above example, each of Acme's branches would need to get a handful of IP addresses from their ISP, and then NAT the fuck behind it. If Acme was lucky enough to have, say, a Class B from yesteryear, they could subnet it and assign it to each branch. But that would only be if they were one of the lucky ones. Whereas in IPv6, you now have a level playing field.

    90. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about your firewall rules when the ipv6 address prefix keeps changing?

    91. Re:Move to the latest version? by ledow · · Score: 1

      Why are you hard-coding the prefix? Why are you changing the prefix?

      You pick up the interfaces you want, and move on. You don't need to type it out. And by the time you get to a firewall with multiple externally visible IP's, plus VLAN's, plus rules, plus routers, etc. then you hand it off to an IT guy who will a) put in a config not based on hard-coded, hand-typed IP's, b) put it behind routers and services that have GUI or database management.

      Seriously, people, you should no more be sitting there entering IP's than you ever have before. And once you get past a small handful, you never type them again anyway.

      I mean, honestly, have you guys never heard of copy/paste either? I deal with hundreds of IP's, I even have the prefix on autocomplete and the externals etc. are kept in a database or in a spreadsheet depending on the task.

      This is honestly the WORST argument against IPv6 that I've ever seen. Hell, as far as I'm concerned, the second a user has to read-out, or type in, some IP address on your system, you've already failed.

    92. Re:Move to the latest version? by ledow · · Score: 1

      You don't NEED to do it on your LAN. You're choosing to. I have an IPv6-capable router. It picks up an IP range from the external ISP, then offers it - with sensible defaults - to the network. It's the default, power-on configuration. The same as it was for IPv4.

      Use RA only for routing, use DHCPv6 for address and DDNS.

      Yes, address configuration is a mess with IPv6 because of the number of competing services. But there are only a handful of combinations that work and do everything you need. And they invariably involve one-off daemon setup and then forget-about-it.

    93. Re:Move to the latest version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the jump to 128 bits was made so that it would be compatible with the custom and obsolete network system IBM runs in its own building and that no one else in the world uses. IPv6 was supposted to save space by removing unused features from IPv4 headers, until it became the waste it is now. Every single packet transmitted using IPv6 is going to be longer, and thus cost more energy to transmit and process, just because IBM, who holds an entire class A address space, wanted to have an slightly easier transition process for themselves.

    94. Re:Move to the latest version? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Longer packets are inevitable when you want to elongate the size of addresses. It's just a matter of how much. 128 bits was a good call, but they should have given more weight to hierarchical routing than autoconfiguration (which would still have been possible, just not as simple).

  9. Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    or this wouldn't be such a big deal.

    1. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by crow · · Score: 1

      I was hoping someone would say that!

      The impact here is for any new ISP--they'll have to offer IPv4 through NAT. While that will be a pain for a small number of uses, for the most part, it means it's a lot harder to track specific accesses back to a given account. Copyright trolls will hate this.

      The biggest problem for regular use is providing remote access. If you're used to being able to ssh into your home system or run some remote desktop when away from home, having to go through NAT presents problems.

      ISPs will like that NAT provides a technical impediment to home servers, though this is exactly the sort of thing consumers will miss.

      One nice benefit of having NAT through an ISP may be the elimination of the continuous stream of port scans and login attempts.

    2. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 2

      NATs are the biggest pain in the ass for every user, whether they know it or not. They have taken back the internet by decades. Not only are they full of bugs and incorrect protocol implementations, they have forced myriads of developers to spend thousands of hours on unreliable NAT hole punching hacks just to be able to use the internet for what it's intended to. In addition to this,they have frustrated and enraged millions of gamers.

    3. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they have frustrated and enraged millions of gamers.

      Watching sperg rage is one of the biggest spectator sports in this country.

    4. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by unixisc · · Score: 1

      No, any ISP that offers IPv6 just has to have a transition mechanism so that IPv4 only sites are accessible. As far as identifying people go, every subscriber will get say a /60, and then it'll be up to them on how they split it. Some may split it b/w 2 SSIDs and then have all home devices connected. Some may distribute it b/w different family members. In IPv4 too, your ISP had to know which addresses were coming to you, or else, how could they bill you?

    5. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by crow · · Score: 1

      You're missing the point. If you're accessing some IPv4 resource, and someone notes that the resource is being accessed, how hard is it to determine who was accessing the resource? In the old system, it's a simple matter of logging the IP address, and then using the courts to turn that into an account name. With NAT, you have to log the IP address, the source port, and the time, and then that only works if the ISP is keeping a log of every connection through the NAT, which is rather unlikely.

      In other words, going through NAT provides some modicum of privacy. It's a far cry from using TOR, but it's something.

      Of course, if you're accessing an IPv6 resource, then tracking by IP should work just like it has in the past.

    6. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by unixisc · · Score: 1

      In the old system, only one IPv4 address was issued, so unless it was NATed, it pointed to just one person. Now, in IPv6, at least an entire /64 is issued, which could be shared by any number of people. So if a warrant is issued for one particular user, they'd have to track that particular user's account, but they can't touch the addresses being used by others on the network.

      Let's take a family - Achmed, Fatima, Mohammed and Aisha - all on a network. They have an extended family of cousins, uncles and so on - all of whom are their neighbors, let's say around 19. Within the family, all 4 of them have 4 phones, 2 laptops (for Achmed and Mohammed) and 2 tablets (Fatima and Aisha). Mohammed is suspected of exchanging messages w/ ISIS. The FBI gets a warrant to search Mo.

      In the IPv4/NAT scenario, they'd get Achmed's public IPv4 address and then have to go through the source ports and all that. In IPv6, they'd have to know which address Mohammed was using, but can't look at the addresses being used by the other 3. Also, since all 4 family members are using transitional addresses, there is no way of knowing whether messages to ISIS came from Mo or the other 3 members of the family. Same problem that one had in IPv4.

      In short, IPv6 does just as good a job of protecting privacy as IPv4. In the latter case, the FBI can go after everything behind that IPv4 NAT. In the former case, the FBI just needs the network address, and can go after everything behind it. But instead of a warrant for investigating just Mo, they'd need one to investigate all 19 of them.

    7. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NATs are the biggest pain in the ass for every user, whether they know it or not. They have taken back the internet by decades. Not only are they full of bugs and incorrect protocol implementations, they have forced myriads of developers to spend thousands of hours on unreliable NAT hole punching hacks just to be able to use the internet for what it's intended to. In addition to this,they have frustrated and enraged millions of gamers.

      The vast majority of regular internet users have a NAT+stateful firewall enabled on their home router, and never notice a problem. And that includes gamers.
      The only time it's a problem is when someone is trying to make an unsolicited inbound connection to something on your network.

      Most of the time this should not be a problem, it's usually only an issue when a game's multiplayer setup is done poorly. Specifically, it's only an issue when the game is designed to have direct peer-to-peer communication instead of relaying everything through a central server. And to be 100% frank with you, that should never happen (but does happen, a lot) because it's a huge privacy and security risk. The reason all those kids on whatever FPS is popular are DDOS'ing each other is because they are given the public IP's of everyone else in the match.

    8. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by crow · · Score: 1

      True. My point was comparing IPv4 with a native address vs. IPv4 through a NAT.

      Taking your story backwards, if the FBI intercepted messages with ISIS and recorded the network information:

      Using a real IPv4 address: They get the account name and address from the ISP, then get a search warrant to find evidence and determine who in the home is the culprit.

      Using a real IPv6 address: Same as above, only now they may be able to tell which computer in the house was used, making their job easier.

      Using a NAT IPv4 address: The ISP is unable to tell the FBI which account is associated with the IP address. The FBI has to use other techniques to eventually determine who the bad guy is.

      Of course, in the above example, the NSA would likely have a box inside the ISP that logs everything interesting, but if instead of the FBI, it was the RIAA, MPAA, or someone like that, they would be stumped.

    9. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Hi time traveler from 1998, how are things? Because here in 2015 NAT works just fine even for gamers as services like Steam take care of this FOR us, in fact I can't even remember the last time I had to actually DO anything to play online. hell we don't even have to worry about it with old games anymore thanks to GOG Galaxy which again takes care of that FOR us.

      Ahhh automated services, its a shame you don't have them in 1998 but here in 2015 they are like a breath of fresh air, ahhhh.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    10. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      Not a time traveler from 1998, more like 2006-2007. Fire up Company of Heroes 1 on steam, and go and host a game. Yeah, NAT issues everywhere. People can't join. People will randomly drop. NAT still sucks for a lot of games, even AAA titles.

    11. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      The problem with monolithic gaming servers out on the internet is that you can't have a private server for you and your friends to enjoy. Many gamers prefer to play with their friends instead of random strangers. Also, many gamers love modding gaming servers.

      This is why people run servers at their homes, and why many games are designed to be peer to peer instead of client server.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    12. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Ahh yes. Connecting computers across the world works just fine ... oh as long as you can connect to a intermediate corporate computer run by some company for profit. Ahhh but there's work arounds, like the security fuckup that is UPnP.

      Yes it's 2015 and people still suggest we accept broken workarounds to a problem that has been fundamentally fixed in IPv6.

    13. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by Bengie · · Score: 1

      NAT works just fine. Then why are so many forums filled with questions of why their games don't work where more than one person on their network attempts to play? Maybe because only once device can claim a port.

    14. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by bbn · · Score: 1

      You need to read up on IPv6 privacy extensions: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rf...

      Your computer will generate a random IPv6 address and change that random address at regular intervals (typically a few hours before it changes). Therefore they will be unable to track the exact computer, because there is no way to know which computer had that random address at the time.

      They will get you anyway due to cookies and device fingerprinting, but that is no different than the situation with IPv4 and NAT.

      Also with carrier NAT ISPs in most countries are by law required to record the port numbers assigned to each user. Your IP might be shared with multiple other users, but as long they also recorded the port number, they will be able to find the user. RIAA and MPAA knows this - I get a ton of email from them every day complaining about users that download their stuff with Bittorrent and every complaint includes port numbers.

    15. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by unixisc · · Score: 1

      But in IPv6, why would they need port numbers (beyond 8080)? The only reason they use port numbers now is PAT. The moment one uses IPv6, you'll instead get a complaint from RIAA or MPAA that somebody w/ the address 2001:db8:a55:beef::2af6 has been downloading their stuff w/ bittorrent.

    16. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Because its SUCH A GOOD IDEA to hook your PC to an absolute stranger who may get butthurt when he loses the game and then spend days DDOSing your ass.

      Either 1.- You are not a gamer and are just looking to argue or 2.- You are VERY naive and don't realize how fucking batshit people are these days. If its the second? WAKE UP, you are just asking for a VERY bad time, the kids today do NOT play nice and act like you buttfucked their sister if you actually beat their whiny asses.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    17. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by bbn · · Score: 1

      Port numbers is only useful and needed if you are dealing with carrier NAT. That is NAT performed by the ISP, such that multiple customers share the same ISP. This happens to be somewhat common with apartment networks.

      If RIAA/MPAA records the address 2001:db8:a55:beef::2af6 only the "2001:db8:a55:beef" part is actually useful. The remaining part of the address will typically be a randomized privacy extension address. They are therefore still unable to prove which machine was used to download the content.

      If you are one of the persons that want to use easy to remember addresses, you can still use privacy extensions. With IPv6 it is normal to have many address on each computer. You can have your easy to remember address (2001:db8:a55::2) that you use for ingoing connections. And the machine will prefer the random privacy extension address for outgoing connections (2001:db8:a55::9b43:82dd:2239:10bc - right now but in an hour it will be completely different).

    18. Re:Everyone needs an address so you can be tracked by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Erm ... you do realise that IPv4 and IPv6 doesn't change that at all right? Some loser script kiddy right now has no problem at all blocking your network. You can't protect against that.

      If you're worried about getting through to your actual specific machine then I have news for you: surfing the internet without a stateful firewall is like fucking in south africa without a condom. You're not being protected by a NAT, you're being protected by a firewall but you seem to think that's the same thing. It's not.

      Please do a bit of reading before you accuse others of being naive or "just looking to argue"

  10. SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by lesincompetent · · Score: 1

    Don't you dare touch my 192.168.0.0/16! I have claims in 169.254.0.0/16, 10.0.0.0/8 and 172.16.0.0/12 too!
    You'll have to pry them from my cold dead routers!

    1. Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Okay, but I'm taking 127.0.0.0/8

  11. Boy cries wolf by jones_supa · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Yeah, whatever, man. Slashdot runs this same story every few months, and has been doing so for years. Previous one is from July: North America Runs Out of IPv4 Addresses. The story never mentions that there are actually other pools that still contain a goldmine of addresses. I also suspect that companies own big blocks that can be freed when the going gets tough. So probably we're still good for a long time.

    1. Re:Boy cries wolf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I'm seeing companies freeing big blocks every day now because companies usually like to help out in situations like this. They are so nice.

    2. Re:Boy cries wolf by Alioth · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The real WTF is that Slashdot has been running IPv6 articles for years...and *still* doesn't support IPv6.

      Facebook on the other hand - not a tech site, but a site for angsty teenagers, baby pics, cat memes and partisan squabbling - has supported IPv6 fully for years.

      It's embarrassing that a tech site can't do what a non-tech site has been doing for years.

    3. Re:Boy cries wolf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been hearing from that impeding doom for about 10 years. In the meantime never have I seen one IPv6 implementation actually be used.

    4. Re:Boy cries wolf by myrdos2 · · Score: 1

      According to google statistics, 21% of Americans already use IPv6 to access the web. Unless something goes terribly wrong, I don't think they'll need to free up any IPv4 blocks, well, ever.

    5. Re:Boy cries wolf by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You do know that the internet is routed in pools right? All you do by breaking up the bigger pools is further screw with the exponential growth of routing tables until it will all break, and it will break. That is one of the reasons IPv6 addresses are as long and contain as many bits as they do, whereas in reality to cover all devices we only needed to add a few bits to the existing system.

      Don't break my internet.

    6. Re:Boy cries wolf by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Getting new blocks from companies means the routing tables get incredibly complicated. We've already seen breaking systems in the wild who couldn't handle the increasing size of the routing tables. This will only get worse if the world adopted your "solution".

    7. Re:Boy cries wolf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's embarrassing that a tech site can't do what a non-tech site has been doing for years.

      I think you're confused.

      Facebook has thousands of engineers with the know-how to do things like this. I get the impression that Slashdot has zero. That's not to bash on Slashdot, I like it the way it is. Facebook is constantly changing and doing new things to keep their audience engaged, that's how these things work. They need to have those resources on staff.

      I wouldn't be surprised if all the development work that happens for Slashdot -- such as the failed beta experiment and the mobile version -- were done by contractors.

    8. Re:Boy cries wolf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in reality to cover all devices we only needed to add a few bits to the existing system.

      Your reality is pretty small, isn't it.

    9. Re:Boy cries wolf by Tim+the+Gecko · · Score: 1

      I've been hearing from that impeding doom for about 10 years. In the meantime never have I seen one IPv6 implementation actually be used.

      You have now. Here's IPv6 being used to vandalize Wikipedia!.

    10. Re:Boy cries wolf by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Previous one is from July: North America Runs Out of IPv4 Addresses.

      If you actually followed the link you'll find that ARIN rejected a request for a very large pool of IP addresses in July. They also state they have smaller pools available.
      The story today is there are no more small pools available.

      People should actually follow the links back to ARIN before they call about crying wolf. It's like someone complaining that we first ran this article in 2011. Well yes we did, back then they ran out of /8s but given there were only 255 /8s to begin with many of which are not assignable was that really a surprise?

    11. Re:Boy cries wolf by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Your reality is pretty small, isn't it.

      Only if you don't understand binary. You do realise going from 32bits to 36bits frees up an additional 64billion addresses right?

    12. Re:Boy cries wolf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those that understand binary, and those that don't.

    13. Re:Boy cries wolf by unixisc · · Score: 1

      If ARIN is out, it's only the downstream organizations, like ISPs, that still have addresses. You can't get addresses from AfriNIC, since that's for Africa, and they too got really few to start w/. So if ARIN is out, chances are that ISPs will either have to do things like LSNAT or migrate to IPv6.

    14. Re:Boy cries wolf by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      The story never mentions that there are actually other pools that still contain a goldmine of addresses.

      Such as...

      I also suspect that companies own big blocks that can be freed when the going gets tough.

      An entire /8 would push back the inevitable by, what, a few weeks? And who's going to gladly give up a class A? No, for all practical purposes the article is completely correct. We're out. There might be some tricks that could let IPv4 allocation limp along for another few months, but that's not going to help anything.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    15. Re:Boy cries wolf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "apt-get upgrade" or "apt-get install ..." on my home network uses IPv6 successfully some of the time. (Comcast gives out IPv6 addresses via DHCP, router picks the block up some of the time, attached machines pick up an address each some of the time; the block seems to change more frequently than the IPv4 address they give out.)

    16. Re:Boy cries wolf by bn-7bc · · Score: 0

      thar of corrse depends on if you express it as an unsigned integer or not fo a signed 2 bit int that wold be -1 iirc, let's jus asume that the 10 above was a somewat longer int whith the leading zeros truncated

    17. Re:Boy cries wolf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is still less than 10 Addresses per person world wide. I recommend 37bits

    18. Re:Boy cries wolf by godrik · · Score: 1

      slashdot? a tech site?
      I thought it was all about politics and immigration stories?

    19. Re:Boy cries wolf by bbn · · Score: 1

      The CEO can do one call to CloudFlare or any other number of content delivery networks. They will happily put a IPv6 to IPv4 proxy in front of his servers, without the missing slashdot.org engineers needing to change anything at all.

    20. Re:Boy cries wolf by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      No, 10 is not a negative number in binary, just like 99 is not a negative number in decimal. You're thinking of twos-complement signed integers.

    21. Re:Boy cries wolf by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      IPV6 is just a fad. I'm not upgrading until IPV7.

    22. Re:Boy cries wolf by EndlessNameless · · Score: 1

      They don't "free up" IPv4 addresses and then hand them out. Those addresses are auctioned.

      So, yes, I do see them helping out. For a price.

      Right now, IPv4 addresses sell for maybe $10 each. Not exactly profitable to rearchitect a network just yet.

      But if you're going to do it anyway, or if the price goes up over time---of course you'll sell off what you don't need.

      --

      ---
      According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
    23. Re:Boy cries wolf by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      IPV6.1 will have all the bugs worked out.

    24. Re:Boy cries wolf by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      No, 10 would be a negative number if it's a signed 2-bit number, but he was incorrect, it isn't -1, it's -2.

    25. Re:Boy cries wolf by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      I recommend 128-bits so that we don't need to revisit this again in 2 years.

    26. Re:Boy cries wolf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It's embarrassing that a tech site can't do what a non-tech site has been doing for years.

      I would wager than Facebook has more technical discussions, groups, and users than slashdot does.

    27. Re:Boy cries wolf by unixisc · · Score: 1

      In the header, there is an 8 bit version number field. So that number has to be a whole number - the next one it can be is 7, but I believe that the next few numbers have already been reserved for certain standards above and beyond IP.

  12. Again? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2

    >> America Runs Out of IPv4 Internet Addresses

    Again?
    http://arstechnica.com/informa...
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/n... ...

    1. Re:Again? by Dagger2 · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, not again.

      Last year, ARIN hit one /8 left (that's the second article you linked). Back in July of this year, ARIN had to make their first ever refusal for an allocation on the basis of not having the IP space for it (that's the first article). They still had some space remaining for small allocations. Now, as of yesterday, they have to refuse all allocations on that basis, because they ran out of space altogether. That's this article.

      Apparently, the idea that reaching 0% involves going through 10% and 1% first is hard to grasp...

    2. Re:Again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's just like Voyager 1

    3. Re:Again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was hoping someone would mention https://xkcd.com/865/

  13. Ill sell mine for a meelion dollars by coolmoe2 · · Score: 2

    Bring on the rush of IPv4 squatters now...

    1. Re:Ill sell mine for a meelion dollars by thegarbz · · Score: 0

      Doesn't work like that unfortunately. ... or rather fortunately.

  14. the circle of strife. by nimbius · · Score: 1

    seems like we see one of these every few months. maybe its true, but its hardly a problem we cant as americans drag our feet on. There are numerous practical reasons we have poor ipv6 penetration. not the least of which are:

    understanding: greybeards and young guns alike in IT share an almost religious fear of IPv6 sometimes. Its a poltergeist most companies would care to avoid as well, as it would require hiring people who understand ipv6 as well as 4. not just the address, but how to route it, how to firewall it, and how to handle its DNS addressing. unless youre a firmly bunkered BOFH, youll have gaps in your understanding.
    infrastructure: ipv6 has been in place at comcast and time warner for a while, but it requires DOCSIS 3 capable modems to handle the traffic and ipv6 capable wireless ap's in many cases. most americans who dont bask in the warm green glow of slashdot havent rushed out to buy a new modem when their current one is just as good. most cable companies were loathe to provide a free or subsidized upgrade (thats probably changed now that theyre common-carrier status) but it doesnt change the meat of the problem. To fix modems would require an upgrade not seen since we switched from analogue to digital broadcast television.
    the web.: AWS sites still dont support ipv6. hosting providers like GoDaddy and Dreamhost have done a magnificent job of building out support but dedicated hosting solutions may still include legacy apache and nginx that dont speak 6. vendors like ironport speak ipv6 about as fluently as a slavic tourist, and in many cases proxy software and antispam actually reject ipv6 transported email as they cant handle reverse ipv6 lookups. many appliances rely entirely on hurricane or other public 6-2-4 proxes to maintain any semblance of support for the protocol. other companies like F5 networks have glorious support for ipv6, but few customers that care about it outside of cloud hosting providers.

    do yourself a favour, learn it. Learn what it is and how it works, and make it a weekend project at home. youd be surprised how many people raise an eyebrow when you put 'ipv6' on your resume. For my countrymen here in the states, its coming. you cant stop it, and dual stack implementations already exist in your cellphones and public hotspots.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:the circle of strife. by quetwo · · Score: 1

      And there are a lot of things that are still considered "Experimental" with IPv6. Things like multicast among many others are still standards that are being worked out by the vendors.

    2. Re:the circle of strife. by hjf · · Score: 1

      yeah right, like Multicast IPv4 isn't also "experimental".

    3. Re:the circle of strife. by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      It's not like multicast work on the Internet in IPv4 either since it's blocked hard at the ISP level.

    4. Re:the circle of strife. by quetwo · · Score: 1

      It's very well defined. I use it every day. Comcast uses it to transport all of their CATV channels between their headends.

    5. Re:the circle of strife. by quetwo · · Score: 1

      Multicast works great on Internet2 between ISPs and schools. It also works very well within the LAN environment as well.

    6. Re:the circle of strife. by bbn · · Score: 1

      IPv6 Neighbour Discovery protocol (ND) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rf... is the protocol used by IPv6 hosts to find each other. It is the IPv6 equivalent of ARP. And ND is based on multicast. Without multicast, nothing would work with IPv6.

      An IPv4 host needs to use broadcast ARP packets to every host on the same network. This was fixed in IPv6, so each host uses the last 32 bits of its address as a multicast group. When you need to contact someone, you will take the last 32 bits of his address and then multicast your ND packets to that multicast group. That way only hosts that share the same last 32 bits will receive the ND packet. This dramatically reduces the amount of broadcast/multicast chatter received by each host.

      The downside is that it only works on networks with MLD enabled switches. That is very rare. Without MLD the system will fall back to broadcast.

      But just to point out that you are wrong to believe that multicast is experimental when in fact it was baked in from the very start.

    7. Re:the circle of strife. by quetwo · · Score: 1

      IPv6 still has very experimental support for things like PIM (or the equivalent), which is very important if you want to limit which groups get multicast. There are two current methods to have multicast traffic be controlled -- and both are not compatible with each other -- and both cause multicast traffic to hit the CPU of switches and routers in every brand I've found. This is really problematic when you are trying to transfer large amounts of multicast traffic (like video, for example), because every packet will have to be inspected by the CPU or flooded out to each port. In my case I'm constantly streaming ~ 8GB/s of multicast video....

    8. Re: the circle of strife. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MLDv2 was specified in 2004 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3810.

      You use the same PIM protocol to route IPv6 multicast as you do for IPv4.

      That some vendors have failed to implement some of this stuff properly does not make it experimental.

    9. Re:the circle of strife. by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      bot no one mentioned LAN:s, of course multicast works well on LANS, most of the stock trading systems that I connect to use multicast to distribute their data. No one is supposng to switch LANs to use IPv6 and since multicast does not work at all over the Internet there is no change if we change to IPv6 on the Internet either. The point is ofcourse also moot since multicast works just fins in IPv6 as well..

    10. Re:the circle of strife. by herbierobinson · · Score: 1

      Correct, but possibly confusing. IPv6 systems will NOT fall back to sending broadcast packets, but switches that don't support MLD will transmit multicast packets for IPv6 to all ports on the switch. Where switches are concerned, MLD (and IGMP for that matter) are optional optimizations for specific Ethertypes. Historically, IGMP was used by hosts to communicate with routers assuming that the subnet was a party line (because that's what early Ethernet was). When we transitioned from coax and hubs to switches, the switch manufacturers figured out how to use IGMP to optimize where multicast packets were sent -- this is called IGMP snooping. IGMP is used to optimize traffic for the IP Ethertype (0x800). Now, MLD does the same thing for the IPv6 Ethertype. All other Ethertypes are shipped to every port. Of course, whether the switch actually implemented MLD snooping is an issue, but that's not the protocol.

      FYI, MLD is pretty much IGMP with larger addresses. There are other things in IPv6 that are really new, this isn't.

      --
      An engineer who ran for Congress. http://herbrobinson.us
    11. Re:the circle of strife. by herbierobinson · · Score: 1

      PIM stands for Protocol Independent Multicast. That means the protocol is the same thing whether routing IPv4 or IPv6. Those multicast routing protocols may well have problems, but the problems will be the same for IPv4 and IPv6. Not to say the routers and switches won't have bugs: I would definitely recommend updating the firmware in any routers and switches you run IPv6 on (or if you are using PIM with IPv4).

      In a classic router, every packet hits the CPU, not just multi-casts. It is certainly possible that a high performance router could optimize IPv4 forwarding, but not Iv6 forwarding. That has nothing to do with the protocol being "experimental". FYI, most of the protocols defined by the IETF are "experimental".

      Most decent NICs these days have large tables to sort out the multi-cast addresses before they interrupt the host. They operate on the MAC address mapping for the multicasts; so, they are essentially the same whether IPv4 or IPv6. I know FreeBSD hosts do properly fill in the hardware multicast address tables in the NICs the same way whether using IPv4 or IPv6. I would assume Linux does, too. In other words, if your multicast traffic is hitting the host CPU for every packet, you may be running crappy NICs.

      I believe the 82576 supports 23 multicast addresses before overflowing (and going into promiscuous mode). The i350 supports 31. The 82599 and x540 support 127. Those are Intel parts, but I suspect other vendors are doing the same.

      Also, most switches made in the last 10 years support MLD snooping and won't forward IPv6 multi-cast packets to every port. You might have to turn on the MLD snooping... One problem that could come up is exceeding the size of multicast forwarding tables in old switches (causing them to either forwarding multicasts to every port or to use imperfect hashing schemes).

      --
      An engineer who ran for Congress. http://herbrobinson.us
  15. My IP Address by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I just checked my IP address and it's 192.168.1.102. Whew, I'm glad I got one before they ran out. No one else can have my IP address!

    1. Re:My IP Address by fnj · · Score: 2

      Mine is 127.0.0.1 and I've had it for ages.

    2. Re:My IP Address by sinij · · Score: 2

      Mine is 127.0.0.1 and I've had it for ages.

      Why do you have all my files? I will have to send you DMCA notice.

    3. Re:My IP Address by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      I've got 2: 127.0.0.0 and 10.0.0.15, I guess I can give you guys the 127 one since I'm barely using it.

      --
      -Styopa
    4. Re:My IP Address by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      That is the same IP address as my luggage. Damn you, internet of things

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    5. Re:My IP Address by RavenLrD20k · · Score: 1

      Hey! That's MINE! It has to be mine because I've had it since I first discovered that ether--thing. It also follows me wherever I go.

    6. Re:My IP Address by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1

    7. Re:My IP Address by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey. I just visited your web site.

      I think it looks terrific! I might be biased, though, since it looks a lot like mine.

    8. Re:My IP Address by leonardluen · · Score: 1

      looks like both of you are actively mirroring my files, i guess i don't need to run backups anymore.

    9. Re:My IP Address by skastrik · · Score: 1

      I just checked my IP address and it's 192.168.1.102.

      That explains my IP address conflicts. Thanks a lot!

    10. Re:My IP Address by BlackPignouf · · Score: 1

      Mine is 127.0.0.1 and I've had it for ages.

      Wow, you really have a huge collection of p0rn!

    11. Re:My IP Address by jrumney · · Score: 1

      You might want to look into a firewall before the FBI finds what you are sharing with the world.

  16. Three years after Europe ran out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    No, that's just an artifact of the different policies for assigning the last addresses. RIPE (the European registry) throttled assignments by making the requirements much more strict. That change of policy was considered the point when RIPE ran out of IPv4 addresses, because the remaining addresses are not given out just for asking. Unlike the other registries, ARIN did not institute a policy to extend the availability of IPv4 addresses for transitioning purposes, so they burned through the last 16 million addresses like no tomorrow and are now truly out of IPv4 addresses to assign. They are in fact the first registry without IPv4 addresses in stock. RIPE still has almost a full /8, APNIC has two thirds of an /8, LACNIC has one seventh of an /8, and AFRINIC still has 2.3 /8 blocks.

    1. Re:Three years after Europe ran out? by FireFury03 · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, that's just an artifact of the different policies for assigning the last addresses. RIPE (the European registry) throttled assignments by making the requirements much more strict. That change of policy was considered the point when RIPE ran out of IPv4 addresses, because the remaining addresses are not given out just for asking. Unlike the other registries, ARIN did not institute a policy to extend the availability of IPv4 addresses for transitioning purposes, so they burned through the last 16 million addresses like no tomorrow and are now truly out of IPv4 addresses to assign. They are in fact the first registry without IPv4 addresses in stock. RIPE still has almost a full /8, APNIC has two thirds of an /8, LACNIC has one seventh of an /8, and AFRINIC still has 2.3 /8 blocks.

      Well, not really... RIPE, APNIC and APNIC reserved the last /8 for "IPv6 transition" (i.e. an extremely restrictive allocation policy). ARIN reserved the last /10 for the same purpose. So 3 years ago, RIPE hit the last /8, now ARIN have hit the last /10. They all still have addresses to hand out, but in all cases (except Afrinic) the allocation policies are now so restrictive that for practical purposes you can consider them "out".

    2. Re:Three years after Europe ran out? by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      Specifically, RIPE's policy is that each LIR can get one /22 from the final /8, and that's it. The idea is to make sure that new LIRs can at least get some v4 space to run NAT64/CGNAT on.

      ARIN didn't think that would be useful, for whatever reason.

    3. Re:Three years after Europe ran out? by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      Specifically, RIPE's policy is that each LIR can get one /22 from the final /8, and that's it. The idea is to make sure that new LIRs can at least get some v4 space to run NAT64/CGNAT on.

      ARIN didn't think that would be useful, for whatever reason.

      https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#four10
      ARIN's policy is that each LIR can get one network (/28 - /24) from the final /10 every 6 months for exactly the same purposes.

    4. Re:Three years after Europe ran out? by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

      I was looking for a vps that supported ipv6 to handle some of my learning ipv6. Found a great deal on an OpenVZ 256MB Ubuntu vps in Holland. The base price for the vps was ... get this.. $3.99/YEAR!!!! This included one ipv6 address, but if you wanted an ipv4 address, that added $2/mo to make it $27/year.. Since all I wanted the vps for was ipv6 training/testing/putzing, I skipped the v4 address... This kinda tells me in financial terms that v4 addresses are getting scarce...

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    5. Re:Three years after Europe ran out? by bbn · · Score: 1

      Blocks less than a /24 are not routable on the Internet. For some reason it was RIPE that tested that with a loaned block from ARIN.

      One can hope that ARIN will recognize the need to be able to route this on the internet as sufficient reason to get a /24 instead of a /28.

      There is one other difference to the RIPE policy and that is the IPv6 requirement. There is no such requirement by RIPE. You will get your /22 from RIPE and you can continue to ignore IPv6 and just use it with carrier NAT or whatever. RIPE will ask you to take an IPv6 assignment as well, but they do not ask if you are going to use it for anything.

    6. Re:Three years after Europe ran out? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Specifically, RIPE's policy is that each LIR can get one /22 from the final /8, and that's it. The idea is to make sure that new LIRs can at least get some v4 space to run NAT64/CGNAT on.

      I wonder if there are there any stats for number of new LIRs registered and whether said stats show an uptick when RIPE introduced this policy?

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  17. Ipv6 adoption isn't that bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    According to google's ipv6 stats, about 21% of its American visitors access the site via ipv6.
    https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption&tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption

    That is not as high as Belgium (almost 36%), but it is a start.

    1. Re:Ipv6 adoption isn't that bad by dcooper_db9 · · Score: 1

      Let me guess. They're all mobile?

      --
      I do not block ads. I do block third party scripts.
    2. Re:Ipv6 adoption isn't that bad by KingMotley · · Score: 2

      It is also interesting to dive into those stats and you will notice a significant uptick of availability on weekends for north america. ISPs aren't the biggest offenders, nor is your home router, it is your company's routers and network that are the worst of the bunch here.

    3. Re:Ipv6 adoption isn't that bad by swillden · · Score: 1

      It is also interesting to dive into those stats and you will notice a significant uptick of availability on weekends for north america. ISPs aren't the biggest offenders, nor is your home router, it is your company's routers and network that are the worst of the bunch here.

      How did you find more detailed statistics?

      I think a more likely explanation is the shift to mobile. Mobile networks tend to have much higher utilization of IPv6 and people are increasingly shifting to mobile-only for web browsing and especially for web searches. Weekends away from the office computers likely mean less time on keyboards and more time on phones.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    4. Re: Ipv6 adoption isn't that bad by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      Click the ip6 adoption tab, then you can play with the timeline at the bottom to zoom in.

  18. Take back some of those Class A assignments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Lots of private companies have Class A's and I just don't think Ford needs a Class A. Just like I don't think Apple needs one, nor HP needs two class A's.

    1. Re:Take back some of those Class A assignments by Dredd13 · · Score: 1

      They can't. For lots of legacy/legal reasons those organizations outright *own* those /8s, as opposed to just having been "assigned" or "allocated" to them.

    2. Re:Take back some of those Class A assignments by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Lots of private companies have Class A's and I just don't think Ford needs a Class A. Just like I don't think Apple needs one, nor HP needs two class A's.

      Sure that won't have any negative impacts at all

    3. Re:Take back some of those Class A assignments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eminent domain might could do it.

    4. Re: Take back some of those Class A assignments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know one company with a Class A net and they are currently switching the internal network to 10.* . I am sure when the transition is finished they will start to sell parts of their IP4 addresses. Other companies might do the same.

    5. Re:Take back some of those Class A assignments by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      Yes, take them back. And... then what?

      Before RIRs started running out, we were consuming over one /8 per month. What good is an extra month going to do us? Clawing back those /8s is a waste of time and effort, both of which are better spent on just deploying v6, which you'll still have to do anyway.

    6. Re:Take back some of those Class A assignments by unixisc · · Score: 1

      It's not a question of what they need. A lot of them have legacy equipment built w/ those, which perhaps at the time they were set up didn't even support NAT in IPv4. So those are legacy things locked down. Some organizations like Stanford have returned pools of addresses, but when companies refuse to do that, it's more b'cos the cost of releasing them could break other things within the organizations that work

    7. Re:Take back some of those Class A assignments by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      They can't. For lots of legacy/legal reasons those organizations outright *own* those /8s, as opposed to just having been "assigned" or "allocated" to them.

      Well they can own them as much as they want. No one is technically forced to route their IPs to them. But it doesn't matter, that wouldn't solve anything. IPv6 is the only way forward and nothing that I've seen changes that.

    8. Re:Take back some of those Class A assignments by Dredd13 · · Score: 1

      Ha!

      Yeah, I'd like to see an ISP try to stop routing Apple's traffic without an F-5 class Shit-Storm from their customers.

    9. Re:Take back some of those Class A assignments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of us residential customers need IPv4 for one reason or another. Some of my computers are stuck using IPv4 due to software, not necessarily hardware, issues.

      But I think it'd be great if all mobile phones were IPv6 since it'd free up IPv4 addresses for those who still need them. I figure y2k38 will solve some problems with legacy machines.

    10. Re:Take back some of those Class A assignments by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Reason we need IPv4 is that that's what most websites and other services currently are. But that's solved by going w/ one of those transition mechanisms, such as Dual Stack, Dual Stack lite, 6rd, et al. If our ISPs gave us IPv6 connections, most of us would be able to get our computers on that. Unless you still happen to be on XP or OS/2 or something ancient. Every laptop and tablet OS now - Windows 7-10, Android, iOS, OS-X, Linux, BSD et al support IPv6.

    11. Re:Take back some of those Class A assignments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are XP machines out there. There's also legacy software which isn't IPv6 compatible. Even my Skype phone hardware doesn't support IPv6 to my knowledge. However, I'm hoping more devices will be IPv6 so those who need to remain on IPv4 can do so.

  19. It's a good study in human nature by Alioth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is actually a good study in human nature. A resource exhaustion (with a solution already in place) we could see from a mile off, but will do nothing about until it becomes absurdly painful to continue. Already we see monstrosities like carrier grade NAT which breaks many applications, rather than moving to IPv6 which nearly every device supports.

    We'll see this same procrastinating with AGW, fossil fuels, everything else - we won't do anything about it until the economic damage is already being done and the pain level becomes extreme.

    1. Re:It's a good study in human nature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's more related with the nature of people from english-speaking countries, who use imperial units, drive in the opposite direction from the rest of the world, are still ruled by kings, have the highest number of dyslexics because they have yet to reform their writing system, keep the qwerty keyboard layout, think Java is a good programming language, and so on.
      The drought problems in California are caused exclusively by the inhabitants' refusal to change their bad habits, even when the problem has been acknowledged and a working solution has already been layered out to them.

    2. Re:It's a good study in human nature by FireFury03 · · Score: 2

      This is actually a good study in human nature. A resource exhaustion (with a solution already in place) we could see from a mile off, but will do nothing about until it becomes absurdly painful to continue. Already we see monstrosities like carrier grade NAT which breaks many applications, rather than moving to IPv6 which nearly every device supports.

      We'll see this same procrastinating with AGW, fossil fuels, everything else - we won't do anything about it until the economic damage is already being done and the pain level becomes extreme.

      It does seem very similar to climate change, and in both cases I think the bystander syndrome is probably quite strong: for both IPv6 and climate change, "what's the point in me doing anything when no one else is" is a prevalent attitude - a single person can't really change anything, so everyone stands around watching the oncoming train that's about to hit them, but does nothing.

    3. Re:It's a good study in human nature by unixisc · · Score: 1

      It's not similar to AGW, fossil fuels in that there are finite fossil fuels, and the demand from the AGW crowd is that people use less energy, so that global warming decreases.

      IPv6 OTOH simply tells kids in a small crowded play pen to move to a much larger park, where they can continue to have more fun playing. Or to use a car analogy, a family of 5 has just gotten new twins and is now a family of 7, and the Chevy Metro no longer has enough seats for all 7. There are 2 solutions when everybody is on the road - put the kids on laps of the older kids or a parent, or get a new Suburban and fit in the entire family.

      Family doesn't want to buy a new car due to budget issues, but gets into the problem of making it crowded and unsafe when they are all riding.

    4. Re: It's a good study in human nature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod this up. Most of it is sad but true. Not sure about the dyslexic part lol.

    5. Re:It's a good study in human nature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently those folk who went to CGNAT first, have since discovered that it was a collosal pain in the arse, and got rolling on IPv6.

    6. Re:It's a good study in human nature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has already been happening with food production.
      We artificially hold back food production, even pay people to NOT produce food, for god knows what reason.

      Worse, we use traditional farming techniques over more advanced and very efficient farming techniques like aquaponics, aeroponics and hydroponics.
      An industrial-scale aquaponics system in each major city could feed a whole country if done right. Suddenly all that farm land is free for nature again.

      Equally we could be doing insect farming on a massive scale to make a very fast growing source of food available for production of prepared foods.
      The things it could be used for to not only save money for everyone involved, but also even make some things healthier.

      But the biggest and most important thing about all of this, spare food not going to waste and actually being given out to those in need.
      There are over a billion people classed as being in starvation last I checked, if not billions by now.
      It will likely continue to get worse as India, Brazil and China develop further, and if any other regions join them in development.
      Developing nations have less problems as developed nations have in terms of deaths, we suffered horrible deaths from industrialization, but they don't need to go through those horrors.
      However, sadly, most starving people are from developing countries, which seems paradoxical considering there are 2 tiers below developing country.
      This is a problem purely caused by the developed world.
      It needs to stop.

    7. Re:It's a good study in human nature by Walter+White · · Score: 1

      Why do I have to do anything? I don't do anything to use IPV4. I just plug stuff in and it works.

      That's not strictly true I suppose. I did have to configure an SSID and password on my WiFi router. And I do need to select the AP and type the password for my devices. That's about it. I reserve an IP address for my home built NAS and a few other items but a lot of folks don't even do that.

      Why can't IPV6 be that easy?

      I recall trying to enable it in my PC and router a couple years ago. Nothing worked and that was the end of my experimentation with IPV6.

      I guess I should look into it again.

    8. Re:It's a good study in human nature by Walter+White · · Score: 1

      Comcast's help page (http://customer.xfinity.com/help-and-support/internet/about-ipv6/) directs me to http://www.comcast6.net/ which is 404. :-/

    9. Re:It's a good study in human nature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Efficiency never ever saves resources. My boss wanted to buy 2 smartphones for a project, I optimized the purchases so that they would cost half of the money, and the end result was that my boss bought 4 smartphones instead, spending just a bit more than the planned cost.

      The problem is that the people at management level have ingrained that income and resources are spontaneously generated and just assigned to you with the attached label "use it or lose it", because that's how the crazy system in which they live works.

    10. Re:It's a good study in human nature by unixisc · · Score: 1

      IPv6 IS that easy. Unlike in IPv4, where one has to either manually allocate the addresses or use DHCPv4, in IPv6, the addresses are proactively assigned by the gateway using router advertizements and neighbor discovery. One hardly has to do a thing. Also, IPv6 nodes can accept multiple addresses, so that if you want it to have an address of your choice, you can - in addition to all the others that have been assigned to it.

  20. Easily solvable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IANA should start charging 1 $ /year / IPV4 address; next year should double the price. The year after the price should be doubled again and so on.
    This should force the hoarders to let go of the addresses.
    At some point , it would be to expensive to stay on IPV4 and people would migrate to IPV6.
    The people who really need and can not move to IPV6 would have the option to keep IPV4 and pay.

    1. Re:Easily solvable by quetwo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem with this is that some of the original recipients of those really big blocks like GM and HP were given those addresses, not leased them. They, for all practical purposes, own that address space.

      I know the organization I work for is a part of the problem. Before ARIN existed, a group of three schools (I work for one of them) were granted a /8 as a part of our research status. We have no relation with ARIN, and there isn't even a way to really give back 100 of the /16's we don't use.

    2. Re:Easily solvable by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

      IANA should start charging 1 $ /year / IPV4 address; next year should double the price. The year after the price should be doubled again and so on.
      This should force the hoarders to let go of the addresses.
      At some point , it would be to expensive to stay on IPV4 and people would migrate to IPV6.
      The people who really need and can not move to IPV6 would have the option to keep IPV4 and pay.

      At least one vps vendor in Holland (http://http://vds6.net/) charges $2/MONTH for one ipv4 address on their vps offerings..

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    3. Re:Easily solvable by unixisc · · Score: 1

      I largely agree w/ this, but suggest that instead of $1 per address, charge $X where X is the #NAT connections behind that address. Make that the annual rate, while on the IPv6 side, make it a lot cheaper for a /60.

    4. Re:Easily solvable by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Good. No really good. IP addresses are designed to be issued in blocks to networks with sub-blocks to be issued to groups within the networks. Not doing that results in bloat of the routing tables which are experiencing exponential growth and are already quite close to the point where things start breaking (due to the hardware limits of the size of some routing tables)

      Splitting up a /8 into 100 other components and distributing them across different networks around the world is NOT a solution, or at least it is a very temporary solution which at the same time creates a far worse problem.

    5. Re:Easily solvable by Yggdrasil42 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Also, at the current, increasing, consumption rate reclaiming those large blocks would only add a few months to the exhaustion deadline. Most likely it will take more time to free them than it takes to use them up.

      IPv4 is simply too small, no matter how we hand out the addresses. It's time to switch to IPv6. Those few blocks won't make a difference.

  21. In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashdot runs out of original headlines.

  22. nature's 4-fold harmonic IP addresses by Thud457 · · Score: 3, Funny

    exactly as prophicised. I knew this was coming when Gene Ray went into hiding.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:nature's 4-fold harmonic IP addresses by prefec2 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I personally require at least one more month to finish my thesis. Therefore, I am totally opposed to an end of world right now. I mean, they waited 6000 years. Plus/minus one month shouldn't be that big of a problem. Or better six month so I can have some vacation and get my PhD from university. However, when I am on /. I might need one more month. Oh flip lets make it a year. How about world end in 2016? God? Jesus? Anybody? Is that too much to ask?

    2. Re:nature's 4-fold harmonic IP addresses by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Too late. A reputable evangelist has already stated that the Super-Moon this weekend will herald the End of the World.

      You wouldn't call a Man of God a liar, would you?

    3. Re:nature's 4-fold harmonic IP addresses by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      I personally require at least one more month to finish my thesis

      Or you could just drink beer and hope the world ends before that.

    4. Re:nature's 4-fold harmonic IP addresses by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      Never. If he would lie, he would go to hell. Or maybe it is forgiven because god decided he is a nice guy. And if he really believes it, it is not a lie, isn't it?

    5. Re:nature's 4-fold harmonic IP addresses by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Being wrong isn't a lie either. Perhaps he just misread the signs.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    6. Re: nature's 4-fold harmonic IP addresses by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      Ooooh I thought he said Super Sailor Moon would end the world.. whew!

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    7. Re:nature's 4-fold harmonic IP addresses by obtuse · · Score: 1

      Is your name Jaromir Hladik?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
  23. Where's IPv6 then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Instead of a thousand words:

    $ ping6 amazon.com
    unknown host

    $ ping6 twitter.com
    unknown host

    $ ping6 bing.com
    unknown host

    $ ping6 live.com
    unknown host

    $ ping6 ebay.com
    unknown host

    $ ping6 instagram.com
    unknown host

    The truth is, in 2015 if you have an IPv6 only connection then you're royally f*cked.

    1. Re:Where's IPv6 then? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      Sure because nat64 does not exist. You can get along quite well single stack.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    2. Re:Where's IPv6 then? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      $ ping6 localhost
      unknown host

      LOL. But there is an ip6-localhost.
      Also :

      $ ping ::1
      ping: unknown host ::1

      That makes sense.

    3. Re:Where's IPv6 then? by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      That's funny.

      Usually, self important jackasses make comments as Anonymous Cowards.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    4. Re:Where's IPv6 then? by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      Like you didn't?

      Do you have accounts on all those sites, you sound butt-hurt. Maybe you should tweet about it

    5. Re:Where's IPv6 then? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      [lintel@cisc] ~% ping6 google.com
      ping6: UDP connect: No route to host
      [lintel@cisc] ~% ping6 localhost
      PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) ::1 --> ::1
      16 bytes from ::1, icmp_seq=0 hlim=64 time=0.146 ms
      16 bytes from ::1, icmp_seq=1 hlim=64 time=0.185 ms
      16 bytes from ::1, icmp_seq=2 hlim=64 time=0.189 ms
      16 bytes from ::1, icmp_seq=3 hlim=64 time=0.195 ms
      16 bytes from ::1, icmp_seq=4 hlim=64 time=0.207 ms
      16 bytes from ::1, icmp_seq=5 hlim=64 time=0.163 ms
      16 bytes from ::1, icmp_seq=6 hlim=64 time=0.224 ms
      16 bytes from ::1, icmp_seq=7 hlim=64 time=0.233 ms
      16 bytes from ::1, icmp_seq=8 hlim=64 time=0.207 ms
      16 bytes from ::1, icmp_seq=9 hlim=64 time=0.211 ms
      ^C
      --- localhost ping6 statistics ---
      10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
      round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 0.146/0.196/0.233/0.025 ms
      [lintel@cisc] ~%

    6. Re:Where's IPv6 then? by bbn · · Score: 1

      There is also some big sites that are available:

      baldur@ballerup1:~$ for i in google.com facebook.com www.netflix.com akamai.com cloudflare.com rackspace.com wikipedia.org; do ping6 -c1 -n $i | grep bytes; done
      PING google.com(2a00:1450:4005:801::1000) 56 data bytes
      64 bytes from 2a00:1450:4005:801::1000: icmp_seq=1 ttl=50 time=28.8 ms
      PING facebook.com(2a03:2880:20:4f06:face:b00c:0:1) 56 data bytes
      64 bytes from 2a03:2880:20:4f06:face:b00c:0:1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=43 time=191 ms
      PING www.netflix.com(2a01:578:3::36e4:ea94) 56 data bytes
      64 bytes from 2a01:578:3::36e4:ea94: icmp_seq=1 ttl=46 time=38.0 ms
      PING akamai.com(2a02:26f0:103:186::22df) 56 data bytes
      64 bytes from 2a02:26f0:103:186::22df: icmp_seq=1 ttl=54 time=22.3 ms
      PING cloudflare.com(2400:cb00:2048:1::c629:d59d) 56 data bytes
      64 bytes from 2400:cb00:2048:1::c629:d59d: icmp_seq=1 ttl=57 time=10.6 ms
      PING rackspace.com(2001:4801:1221:101:1c10:0:f5:116) 56 data bytes
      64 bytes from 2001:4801:1221:101:1c10:0:f5:116: icmp_seq=1 ttl=43 time=127 ms
      PING wikipedia.org(2620:0:862:ed1a::1) 56 data bytes
      64 bytes from 2620:0:862:ed1a::1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=52 time=20.7 ms

      The CDNs in there means that you will get some content over IPv6 even from sites that are not IPv6 enabled as such.

    7. Re:Where's IPv6 then? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1


      $ ping6 ip6-localhost
      PING ip6-localhost(ip6-localhost) 56 data bytes
      64 bytes from ip6-localhost: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.028 ms
      64 bytes from ip6-localhost: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.034 ms
      64 bytes from ip6-localhost: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.036 ms
      ^C
      --- ip6-localhost ping statistics ---
      3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 1998ms
      rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.028/0.032/0.036/0.007 ms

      $ ping ip6-localhost
      PING ip6-localhost (127.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
      64 bytes from localhost (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.024 ms
      64 bytes from localhost (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.029 ms
      ^C
      --- ip6-localhost ping statistics ---
      2 packets transmitted, 2 received, 0% packet loss, time 999ms
      rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.024/0.026/0.029/0.005 ms

    8. Re:Where's IPv6 then? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Forgot this one

      $ ping6 google.com
      connect: Network is unreachable

  24. Nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is not new news. It's been an issue for several years now, that only IPv6 addresses were being handed out.

  25. Old News by Nerrd · · Score: 1

    Maybe no one listened last time - but this is not the first time this has been announced. http://www.theguardian.com/tec...

    1. Re:Old News by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      That was a different announcement -- "we had to refuse one request" vs "we have to refuse all requests now".

  26. And yet Hewlett-Packard continues to hoard them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why does HP still hoard 15.0.0.0/8, 16.0.0.0/8, and numerous class B's and Class C's? Someone ask Carly Fiorina, she acquired Compaq/Digital to stake her claim over the additional space for HP.

    1. Re:And yet Hewlett-Packard continues to hoard them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is weird because we all know that HP doesn't actually do anything but destroy earnings and capital anymore. They shouldn't need over 32 million public IP addresses for that.

    2. Re:And yet Hewlett-Packard continues to hoard them by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Because now they're valuable?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    3. Re:And yet Hewlett-Packard continues to hoard them by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      Why does it matter? v4 is too small. It doesn't matter if some companies could potentially squeeze into smaller allocations; it won't change the fact that we still need something bigger than v4.

  27. Comments Summarised by thegarbz · · Score: 5, Funny

    - What are we running out again? I thought we ran out last month! They are crying wolf!
    - IP addresses are assigned by region we only just ran out.

    - NAT makes this a non issue. Just use NAT!
    - NAT is a broken concept that breaks end-to-end connectivity!

    - I won't move to IPv6 they are too hard to type.
    - Why are you typing IPv6?

    - I can't NAT on IPv6 so it breaks my firewall and its insecure.
    - NAT is not a firewall, you can firewall IPv6

    - Why don't we just steal some of HP's IP addresses? They have some spare.
    - Break the internet by splitting up routing tables even further.

    - But NAT has protected us for many years everything works on NAT.
    - Everything now needs to connect to a command server. No end-to-end connectivity and nasty workarounds in routers to make applications work.

    - But DHCP doesn't work for IPv6!
    - DHCP isn't needed, and if it is needed yes it does.

    - But we can NAT the NATTING NAT NAT!
    - Go fuck your NAT.

    1. Re:Comments Summarised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you care about end-to-end connectivity so much? And what's wrong with leaving the firewall part to the hardware dedicated to the networking stuff?

    2. Re:Comments Summarised by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      Firewall != NAT

    3. Re:Comments Summarised by mark-t · · Score: 1

      You can even NAT IPv6 if you really want to.... but at least you'll never *need* to because of ip shortage. Further, it is theoretically possible to design an extension to IPv6 that can route packets right through a NAT, so end-to-end connectivity is still possible, as long as the device, as well as the sender and recipient, are all configured to understand and utilize that extension. Any intermediate devices that the packets may pass through would not need to understand the specific extension at all.

    4. Re:Comments Summarised by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      What are we running out again? I thought we ran out last month! They are crying wolf!

      This one is from 2011: Last Available IPv4 Blocks Allocated.

    5. Re:Comments Summarised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      - Everything now needs to connect to a command server. No end-to-end connectivity and nasty workarounds in routers to make applications work.

      I know conflicker was really bad, but I'm pretty sure there are a few desktops that aren't just burning power to run a botnet to DDOS 4/chan.

    6. Re:Comments Summarised by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You can even NAT IPv6

      YOU MONSTER!

    7. Re:Comments Summarised by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      What are we running out again? I thought we ran out last month! They are crying wolf!

      This one is from 2011: Last Available IPv4 Blocks Allocated.

      Well, except that article is all kinds of incorrect...

      Following on from APNIC's earlier assessment that they would need to request the last available /8 blocks, they have now been allocated 39/8 and 106/8, triggering ARIN's final distribution of blocks to the RIRs. According to the release, 'APNIC expects normal allocations to continue for a further three to six months.

      Lets see...
      1. ARIN doesn't, and never has "distributed blocks to the RIRs" - that's IANA's job, and that article was actually talking about IANA, not ARIN, despite the submitter getting it completely wrong.
      2. "normal allocations to continue for a further three to six months" so definitely not the same as the RIR running out.
      3. The RIR in that article is APNIC, the RIR in this article is ARIN. Maybe you don't know the difference between Asia and America though. :)

    8. Re:Comments Summarised by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Yes that was when the last /8 was allocated.
      Today is when the last of /24 which were allocated by ARIN to themselves for a buffer out of one of their self assigned /8 ran out.

      Both stories are technically correct. In 2011 you could not longer get a /8. Today in America you can't even get a /24 anymore.

    9. Re:Comments Summarised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, scary, I was aving such a good day until this read. So if we do not have any more addresses then how is my toaster going to talk to my blender and how in the world will my refrigerator know when the washer goes in the rinse cycle so it can tell me to add fabric softener.

      “You are so funny, posting on this http forum.”
      Wait, what? /. is not secure?

      “Then gas station attendants disappeared altogether.”
      Just when in the name of Hades did this happen and isn’t someone going to look for the poor sots?

      “In New Jersey, it is illegal to pump your own gas”
      There are people that actually live there?

      “It's like someone who ran out of toilet paper once so they went and filled their entire basement full so they won't accidentally run out again.”
      Would anyone be interested in getting bulk quantities of TP at discount since I apparently do not need that much?

      “You do know that the internet is routed in pools right?”
      So if this global warming thingy is real then what happens when the pools dry up?

      “RIPE (the European registry)”
      So something really is rotten in Denmark?

      “There are numerous practical reasons we have poor ipv6 penetration.”
      They do make a pill for this now don’t they?

    10. Re:Comments Summarised by locofungus · · Score: 2

      You can even NAT IPv6

      YOU MONSTER!

      This is one place where AFAICT, ipv6 is going to be a problem.

      If you're a small company with a couple of different ISPs over a couple of telephone lines for redundancy you've probably currently got your LAN configured with 192.168.x.x or equivalent.

      Your firewall/router then NATs that traffic and forwards it out over one or other of the connections. Your users computers don't care.

      IPv6 makes this more difficult. In theory every computer on the LAN could have two different prefixes but now the external routing decisions are being made at the users computer rather than at the firewall.

      --
      God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
    11. Re:Comments Summarised by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      That doesn't follow. Currently the computer is already making external routing decisions in the form of "I don't know this address I'll send it to the default gateway"

      How does that suddenly change, and how is it in any way different from companies which already have allocated world wide IP addresses in their internal networks? There's still a gateway and still a firewall.

    12. Re:Comments Summarised by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      Shim6 makes this a lot more reliable. It deals with netsplits etc not just ISP A or ISP B.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    13. Re:Comments Summarised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You can even NAT IPv6

      YOU MONSTER!

      This is one place where AFAICT, ipv6 is going to be a problem.

      If you're a small company with a couple of different ISPs over a couple of telephone lines for redundancy you've probably currently got your LAN configured with 192.168.x.x or equivalent.

      Your firewall/router then NATs that traffic and forwards it out over one or other of the connections. Your users computers don't care.

      IPv6 makes this more difficult. In theory every computer on the LAN could have two different prefixes but now the external routing decisions are being made at the users computer rather than at the firewall.

      You can use NPTv6 (also known as NAT66) for this scenario. This is Network Address Translation but not Masquerading - it changes the addresses on the packets as they go in and out of the network, but does not pretend to the outside world that all the traffic from your network is from one hyperactive machine. Cunningly, the way the addresses are mangled is deterministic and done in such as way that the checksums on the packets are still valid, and no per-connection state has to be maintained by the NPTv6 box.

    14. Re:Comments Summarised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Firewall != NAT

      Doesn't matter.

      As a practical matter, NAT is frequently used as a firewall. One might argue that it's an insecure or poor firewall, but that doesn't change the fact that NAT is very often the only thing standing in the way between a desktop client and the Internet.

      NAT has thwarted countless billions of packets that have been sent in an attempt to penetrate security. That makes it a firewall in practice, even thought it might not have been originally designed to be a firewall. Refusing to ignore this reality isn't productive.

    15. Re:Comments Summarised by locofungus · · Score: 1

      Currently the computer is already making external routing decisions in the form of "I don't know this address I'll send it to the default gateway

      But the default gateway can then choose which ISP to use and will NAT the source address to that ISP. (With a bit of jiggery pokery to ensure that subsequent packets on that connection go via the same route)

      But if the original source machine has already picked which IPv6 source address to use then the firewall has to use the correct ISP (as, hopefully, packets with a spoofed source address will be blocked and return packets will come via a different route so the firewall will probably not like them either.)

      It's certainly true that companies who have allocated globally routable IPv4 addresses already have this problem but the vast majority of small companies aren't in this boat. I doubt there are ANY companies who use two different sets of globally routed IPs assigned to their desktops from two different ISPs which they're using for redundancy.

      Large companies - ipv6 transition is (relatively) straightforward. Firewalls/proxies etc mean that the company can probably change to IPv6 at the border without having to touch the internal network at all. (There will be some specialist uses that will need attention)

      Home users and very small businesses - ipv6 transition is likely completely transparent. My old iPad uses IPv6 when it connects to the ARIN countdown page on my home connection and I have done nothing to it to enable that. It uses ipv4 when I connect from the public wifi at work.

      Small businesses - ipv6 transition is going to be more difficult. Not impossible, just more difficult and every small business is likely to be just sufficiently different to every other one that there isn't going to be a cookbook solution.

      --
      God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
    16. Re:Comments Summarised by unixisc · · Score: 1

      There is NAPT which organizations can use if they want to keep their internal network addresses independent of ISP changes. Or to enable multi-homing or load balancing. It's a 1:1 NAT so there is no consumption of ports in the process, or a reason to go to a different layer in OSI.

    17. Re:Comments Summarised by Dagger2 · · Score: 1
    18. Re:Comments Summarised by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      It does matter, because it means you don't need NAT to be secure.

    19. Re:Comments Summarised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still some work to do: http://www.techrepublic.com/ar...

    20. Re:Comments Summarised by zlives · · Score: 1

      how about anonymous, with the appropriate caveats.

    21. Re:Comments Summarised by mattventura · · Score: 2

      But if the original source machine has already picked which IPv6 source address to use then the firewall has to use the correct ISP (as, hopefully, packets with a spoofed source address will be blocked and return packets will come via a different route so the firewall will probably not like them either.)

      No it doesn't. You can always NAT, in both v4 and v6, even if the original source address is a non-private IP. I have 2001:0:0:a::/64 from one ISP and 2001:0:0:b::/64 from another ISP, and I put my LAN clients on 2001:0:0:a::/64, I can still use NAT to change the source IP of packets being routed via ISP #2.

    22. Re:Comments Summarised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ULA prefixes work pretty well in practice and just work with all normal operating systems.

      Only embedded devices, printers and cheap home routers tend to be problematic in this regard.

    23. Re:Comments Summarised by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      Same deal. NAT not required there either.

    24. Re:Comments Summarised by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      But if the original source machine has already picked which IPv6 source address to use then the firewall has to use the correct ISP

      No it doesn't. The firewall should just throw away the source network prefix, and replace it with whatever the network prefix was assigned by the ISP it wants to use.

      In this case, you are just going to use the network prefix like it was a private network prefix internally, and will get NATed as soon as it leaves the internal network. Hence the "N" in NAT. If your cheap NAT can't tell the difference between a packet coming in with your private network address and one already on your network, you should throw away that NAT and get a real one as there are probably a ton of (other) security issues in that POS.

    25. Re:Comments Summarised by zlives · · Score: 1

      RIAA would disagree

    26. Re:Comments Summarised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it doesn't make it more difficult - weirdly enough it can make it more easy, IPv6 is designed to have multiple addresses on an interface, it can give quite crude redundancy via two routers advertising different prefixes.

      And as for NAT, you can do Network Prefix Translation, ISP redundancy is one of the use cases it is intended to serve.

    27. Re:Comments Summarised by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      But you wouldn't? Good.

      The RIAA aren't really well-known for getting the internet. They'd claim that an IP address identifies a person, but it doesn't -- with or without NAT.

    28. Re:Comments Summarised by zlives · · Score: 1

      without NAT it would identify the connected device and the user of the said device.

    29. Re:Comments Summarised by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      No, it wouldn't. You just get an IP, you don't know which machine was using it at the time (unless you turn off privacy addresses, but then that's your fault.)

    30. Re:Comments Summarised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a PI /48, announce to both ISPs (BGP or whatever), and done.

    31. Re:Comments Summarised by mark-t · · Score: 1

      The entire point of NAT is to have some user-provided man-in-the-middle on a connection so while communication is still possible on that connection, there is no actual end-to-end-connectivity. It is at least true that for a vast quantity of internet access, end-to-end connectivity is not necessary, and an argument can be made that at least some of the time, end-to-end connectivity may not even be particularly desirable for some devices (while I may want my xbox, for example, to have an internet connection to obtain DLC, I do not need the device to have globally visible IP in order to achieve this, nor do I particularly want it to, and if I can afford to have a man-in-the-middle on my network that can mediate connections between some of my local devices and the internet at large, I should reasonably be able to to do so, and in such a way that it should not be apparent to applications that are running on the device that do *NOT* require end-to-end connectivity that this is being done. While a proxy can achieve this as well, it typically requires explicit application support).

      While arguably one of the biggest problem with NAT is that it does not scale well, with a single MitM device potentially managing a very large number of simultaneous connections, that does not mean it cannot still be useful in limited circumstances where this behavior is still actively desired. Ideally, it should be the end-user's choice (and with the vast address space in IPv6, at least such a choice can be an option), and the choice should be easily set (defaulting to one or the other) for each device that they connect to their network.

    32. Re:Comments Summarised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THIS!

  28. You can take my v4 by xenotransplant · · Score: 1

    But you'll never take my 127.0.0.1

    1. Re:You can take my v4 by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

      For giggles, do a "ping localhost" on your Windows PC and tell me what happens. I'll bet it's ::1...

    2. Re:You can take my v4 by xenotransplant · · Score: 1

      OOh well played.

    3. Re:You can take my v4 by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Pinging xxxx.xxx.xxx.com [127.0.0.1] with 32 bytes of data:
      Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time1ms TTL=128
      Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time1ms TTL=128
      Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time1ms TTL=128

    4. Re:You can take my v4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows doesn't support the internet; everybody knows that!

    5. Re:You can take my v4 by zlives · · Score: 1

      says app not found

    6. Re:You can take my v4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not on my box. I disabled IPV6 because the shitty slow DNS lookups slow down every goddamn DNS lookup. Fuck IPV6.

    7. Re:You can take my v4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      huh, you aren't wrong.

    8. Re:You can take my v4 by Bengie · · Score: 1

      1ms?! That's horrible to local host

      Source address is 10.255.255.18; using ICMP echo-request, ID=94cf
      Pinging 10.255.255.1 [10.255.255.1]
      with 32 bytes data (60 bytes IP):
      From 10.255.255.1: bytes=60 seq=0001 TTL=64 ID=e63f time=0.096ms
      From 10.255.255.1: bytes=60 seq=0002 TTL=64 ID=2122 time=0.094ms
      From 10.255.255.1: bytes=60 seq=0003 TTL=64 ID=c2c0 time=0.065ms
      From 10.255.255.1: bytes=60 seq=0004 TTL=64 ID=2122 time=0.094ms

      Source address is 127.0.0.1; using ICMP echo-request, ID=3cfa
      Pinging 127.0.0.1 [127.0.0.1]
      with 32 bytes data (60 bytes IP):
      From 127.0.0.1: bytes=60 seq=0001 TTL=128 ID=3e58 time=0.008ms
      From 127.0.0.1: bytes=60 seq=0002 TTL=128 ID=3e5a time=0.007ms
      From 127.0.0.1: bytes=60 seq=0003 TTL=128 ID=3e5c time=0.008ms
      From 127.0.0.1: bytes=60 seq=0004 TTL=128 ID=3e5e time=0.007ms

    9. Re:You can take my v4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure it was "less than 1 ms" and the less than sign got eaten as HTML.

  29. I know where to find 4 full class C's right now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Back in the early days of the Internet my company purchased 4 full class C's, that's over 1000 IPv4 addresses, and that company has since come and gone, yet there they are, still showing as being owned by my old company, just sitting in wait for someone to use.
    If I knew how to inform the Internet gods that they existed, I would tell them. But only if they would give me just a tiny segment (maybe 5 usable IPs) for myself?"

    That tells me, if I know where there are 4 full class C segments not in use, I'd imaging there are many, many other unused IPv4 addresses not being utilized that could be put back into the pool.

  30. A solution by azcoyote · · Score: 4, Funny

    If we just shut down all the porn sites on the Internet, I'm sure we'd get back a good 98% of those IP addresses...

    --
    Incipiamus, fratres, servire Domino Deo, quia hucusque vix vel parum in nullo profecimus.
    1. Re:A solution by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      A lot of the porn sites are owned by one company, so just shut that one down.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    2. Re:A solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If we just shut down all the porn sites on the Internet, I'm sure we'd get back a good 98% of those IP addresses...

      Yeah, but no one would bother using the internet anymore.

    3. Re:A solution by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      That would also solve the problem.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:A solution by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Isn't that problem kind of solving itself? Pornhub offers free porn, no need for the other sites to even exist anymore.

      I have never understood why anyone would pay for porn, but I guess it takes all kinds.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    5. Re:A solution by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      If we just shut down all the porn sites on the Internet, we would also return the internet to where it was pre 1995.

  31. Comcast Business by laie_techie · · Score: 1

    I have Comcast Business as my ISP and I still only get IPv4.

    1. Re:Comcast Business by lokedhs · · Score: 1
      I changed ISP for my fibre connection just because the IPv6 support provided by my old one (Singtel) was horrible. They gave me a single /64, encapsulated using 6rd. I then switched to a different ISP (Viewqwest) which gives me a proper static /48.

      I made sure to tell Singtel exactly why I switched. Not that I think that'll change anything, but it did feel good to let them know they lost a customer because of their poor IPv6 support.

    2. Re:Comcast Business by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      Call Comcast and tell them you need IPv6 and to give you the Netgear cable modem to replace the piece of shit you have.

      That will be $500. On a more serious note, if you aren't get IPv6 at this point you have either the oldest modem in comcast or something is seriously broken. Even the most god awful modem (SMC) that Comcast Business has is dual stack capable and their entire network is handing out IPv6 addresses, on the business side they even give you a /56 which is more IP's than you will ever ever use. Even if you have static IP's with the right modem you will still pull an IPv6 /56 (thats my config).

  32. Discovery.ca by future+assassin · · Score: 1

    use to advertise their web site on the Daily Planet by saying out their IP address, well that was in 1995.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  33. America or just the US and Canada? by snookiex · · Score: 1

    I hate technicalities, but the RIR for Latam is LACNIC. Oh, poorly chosen demonyms.

    --
    Open Source Network Inventory for the masses! Kuwaiba
    1. Re:America or just the US and Canada? by Yaztromo · · Score: 2

      I hate technicalities, but the RIR for Latam is LACNIC. Oh, poorly chosen demonyms.

      LACNIC ran out on June 10th, 2014.

      That, and if we're going to be technical ARIN covers more than Canada and the US, also covering man island nations in the Caribbean and North Atlantic.

      Yaz

    2. Re:America or just the US and Canada? by unixisc · · Score: 1
  34. Re:I know where to find 4 full class C's right now by locofungus · · Score: 1

    There's the equivalent of over 3000 full class Cs on the waiting list for supplying by ARIN right now. (OK, there are currently no requests for a class C as any request that could be satisfied by a class C was, until yesterday, being filled from the available pool)

    Recently they got given (IIRC) a /15 and two /16 which were immediately filled from the waiting list.

    The problem with giving you (and anybody else) a /28 is that unless it's aggregated at the ISP, the global routing tables are going to explode (they're already pretty bad unfortunately)

    So if you want that /29 then you're going to have to find someone who can use the rest of the /24 who will route that subset to you.

    --
    God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
  35. Re:I know where to find 4 full class C's right now by Dagger2 · · Score: 2

    Ah, four class Cs. That should satisfy demand for a good 2 minutes or so.

    v4's problem isn't that parts of it are unused. It's that it's just too small. Returning little blocks here and there won't fix that.

  36. I remember.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When the internet started, I pushed for a 5-octet IP address.
    Nobody listened.

  37. IPV6 magicall makes routing tables better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's okay, because IPv6 magically makes routing tables better, because magic. IPv6 is a nightmare. We just pray that the automated tools work, and use v4 for everything that needs to work. Yes, your cell phone is an v6 machine, and that's fine, because nobody gives a shit if you miss a facebook post. However, all of our towers are on a private v4 network because v6 keeps breaking things.

    1. Re:IPV6 magicall makes routing tables better by Dagger2 · · Score: 1

      You, or your equipment, is doing something wrong, because v6 is far easier to set up and maintain than v4 is.

      Also, you sounded sarcastic, but v6 does indeed improve the routing table situation. "Being really big" is all it needs to reduce fragmentation; that allows ISPs to get a single, contiguous allocation that covers all their needs, compared to v4 where they need to keep getting tiny allocations from all over the place. You can look at Comcast's announcements for an example: they have an order of magnitude fewer v6 prefixes, and the v6 prefixes are mostly empty at the moment, compared to their v4 ones that will be mostly full.

  38. Re:I know where to find 4 full class C's right now by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

    This makes me wonder.. The company I worked for up to 2010, was a government contractor, and prior to around 2007 or so, every user machine on the network had a routable dhcp assigned address. I recall when we changed to a NAT''ed scheme for all of the workstations. I wonder if the several Class C assignments we *had* been using were reassigned or are *still* sitting out there unused.. I'm betting the latter..

    --
    THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
  39. Re:Boy cries wol by bn-7bc · · Score: 0

    I sugest that someone contacts sky broadband abuse and ask them who had 2A02:C7D:1623:F800::/56 deligated at the relevant times and if needed take legal action

  40. They exist. Prices still low. New digital divide? by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2

    This is a huge opportunity for IP address brokerage.

    You mean like ? They already exist, and have for a long time.

    IPv4 addresses seem to be going for about $8 to $9 at the moment, in blocks of 256 or larger. That makes a class-C allocation worth less than $2,500. So I doubt there's a crisis just yet. Not even worth the trouble of pursuing it - and the hassle of retweaking your routers and ISP relations - if you happen to have some you could part with.

    But it will be interesting to watch the prices now that the US registry has announced that it is "officially out" of address. That will tell us if/when reshuffling is insufficient to hold off a real crunch but IPv6 adoption is still inadequate to mitigate the need.

    It will also be interesting to see if a new digital divide develops, with some people still without IPv6 connectivity and stuff they want only available via IPv6. (Again, I doubt it will be an issue.)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  41. No story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Nothing will change rapidly, so there is no great pressure to rush through big changes. "

  42. Repeal RFC1918! For great justice! by TheRealHocusLocus · · Score: 1

    I don't agree with the analogy, there's technology in place that is more versatile yet more complicated and there's the stop gap measure of forcing more and more NAT.

    Oh you mean the technology that dare not speak its name (IPv6?)? I dare not speak of it.

    The US built the Internet and we can take it all back with a tantrum! At any given time less than 18 million of us actually give a damn. Presently there are ~8 million unemployed persons living behind NAT firewalls, forgotten and uncounted, who could really use some help. Toss in some veterans too, especially those having trouble getting health care. Let us give them each a public IP address. Not one of those worthlessly fiat "exceeds the number of molecules in the Universe" IPv6 addresses either. They deserve something of real estimable value tied to the 'gold' IPv4 standard. But where could one obtain, say, almost 18 million IP addresses?

    You do it by breaking all the rules at once, so no one can fault anyone because we're all busy being swept away by a flood. You know, like the rules and procedures for immigration you thought were there all along? And then you woke up one day and the government, all those border agents and paper-stampers were just, simply, missing? Or maybe they are hiding in New Jersey pumping gas. If you were a smart and dedicated alien who was applying for a visa and following those rules you'd feel really foolish then, to see them just come on in while you are still on a waiting list.

    Just like the immigrants, it's time to make everyone on the ARIN waiting list feel foolish. It's time to open the gates.

    RFC1918 is the first target. It's time to nationalize so-called 'private enterprise' address space and return it to the public, in happy glorious peoples' revolution. Let's begin to roll back the network bits for 10/8, 172.16/12 and 192.168/16 and 169.254/16 (Windows 98 rulez!) one bit at a time, one bit per hour. Starting tomorrow. Better look for the IOS password, you're going to need it! Or hell, let's just roll it all back at once. Remove those bogon filters and BGP blackholes and let it all leak out, let's have a democratic slate-wiping Internet version of thermonuclear war, and from the ashes there will rise a glorious dawn of reallocation... a new era of /32 advertisements followed by a presidential election where every candidate is an independent.

    NUTS TO NAT !!!

    --
    <blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
  43. Who cares? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    We've had IPv6 and 100 Gbps Internet2 for years now.

    Grow up and stop connecting your toaster to the Internet IPv4. Nobody wants to see pictures of your toast.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  44. What about the automotives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those big automotive waste millions of addresses as well.. Chrysler (FCA) has 3 Class B's just here in the US. Ford has several A's/B's GM has at least 6 Class B's and a bunch of Class C's Daimler also has it's own Class A. Chrysler is by far the furthest ahead in IPv6 deployment from what I have heard.

  45. XPocalypse and the "forever day" vulnerability by tepples · · Score: 1

    Windows XP, Windows Server 2003, and Android 2.x no longer receive security updates. This means they are likely vulnerable to "forever day" exploits that surreptitiously install malware that adds other means of exfiltrating data from a system. An attaker doesn't need to Firesheep a victim's session cookie if he can install a keylogger that captures a whole password. Heck, an attacker could just install a keylogger that captures a victim's keystrokes when entering a credit card number. So if Windows XP is insecure in this manner, why even try to offer "secure" services to an insecure client?

  46. Then do the reverse proxy by tepples · · Score: 1

    What's wrong with a reverse proxy handling all the HTTPS work in front of a bunch of application servers on their own VMs?

    1. Re:Then do the reverse proxy by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      It can be a good soloution but it does add extra complexity both in maintaining the proxy itself and in modifying abuse-management code in the application to understand the concept of a trusted proxy.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    2. Re:Then do the reverse proxy by behrooz0az · · Score: 1

      to name a few, connection jitter, latency, overhead and SPOF(this last one is why most people even start using VMs)

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
  47. Re:What's it taste like "eating your words"? by Coren22 · · Score: 0

    Run Forrest Run!

    http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    Proven wrong yet again.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  48. IPv4 address un-retrievable b'cos.... by unixisc · · Score: 2

    Big reason for that would be that at the time they did it, it was on equipment that used IPv4 as it was then - without NAT. NAT was only something that came later to 'address' the shortage of addresses. But at the time that these networks were set up, the protocol didn't have that, and therefore, they had to use public IP addresses for both their internal LANs as well as their outward facing boxes.

    1. Re:IPv4 address un-retrievable b'cos.... by bsdasym · · Score: 2

      Just FYI, NAT was not created simply because of the impending IP exhaustion; That's one reason, but many people were using it (and still do) for other reasons.

      It provides enhanced security for one. It also makes it much easier to move your company or branch office from one ISP to another, which will end up in you receiving a new IP block if you aren't an AS. Likewise it's simpler to multihome a corporate network for redundancy if you don't have to renumber your entire network. For these reasons and more, NAT was very popular even among people that didn't believe the address space would ever really run out.

      Also, there's nothing about NAT in "the protocol" -- all that was required to implement it was hardware and imagination. The assignment of the private address space helped, but was not required. Before the blocks for private address space were reserved for that purpose, admins would use unregistered IP space. It was pretty common to see people just picking random unallocated IPs back then and using them on their LAN. I've even seen actual registered/assigned space used as private space, if you don't care that you can't communicate with the true holder of that space; e.g. the DoD has 13 different /8's that no average person is ever going to connect to or route over.

      For some interesting history/backstory from the horses mouth: http://www.jma.com/The_History... -- just scroll down past all the photos.

      The eggheads did see exhaustion coming though, and saw it early. If you really want to facepalm, consider this: IPv6 deployments started in 1999. At that point, there were still over 120 unassigned /8's. 16 years later, IPv6 almost accounts for 10% of the unique source addresses seen by google. Some good news, the US is leading (in something good for once) in adoption, with deployment here over 20%. Only Belgium and Switzerland have greater penetration.

      That said, Kodak is (was?) one of the old boys. They have a /16 dating back to 1987, so they fit your description well; there really was no option back then but to give everything a "real" IP.

    2. Re:IPv4 address un-retrievable b'cos.... by unixisc · · Score: 2

      The primary reason that NAT was invented was address exhaustion. All of the other benefits you mention were side benefits of NAT, some of which are useful enough that they've been brought back into IPv6 in the form of NAPT.

      The protocol having nothing about NAT has been one of the boondoggles about it, which is why the IETF defined a standard in IPv6, even though it advocates not having NAT at all. You have static NAT, dynamic NAT and PAT. The last one is what erodes the available ports and causes things like mapping software to draw out maps a few blocks at a time, instead of all at once. Reason - the ports, which the maps need, is being eaten up by the addresses.

      Preserving your addresses as you move ISPs is a useful feature, as I mentioned, but that's achievable by private addresses in case of IPv6 (public addresses just aren't needed) and Unique Local addresses (fd00::/8) in case of IPv6. Any organizations internal IP structure can be built on ULAs, and even VPNs can be built on those. There is no difference b/w IPv4 and IPv6 here, except that in the case of IPv4 today, one has to marry those private addresses to the handful of public addresses that the site has, since there are usually not enough public addresses for all the equipment. Also, IPv6 eliminates the need for virtual hosting: every host can have its own unique address. As can every department in an organization, thereby enabling separation of access above and beyond file system level access controls.

      The enhanced security bit has been addressed ad nauseum on /. What provides that security is a firewall, and it's a script that can be written as easily for IPv6 as it can be for IPv4. In both Linux as well as BSD.

      I had mentioned the US leading in adaptation in my IPv6 day contribution in this page: How ready is IPv6 to succeed IPv4?

    3. Re:IPv4 address un-retrievable b'cos.... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      One more thing I forgot to add - the NAPT definition that the IETF provides avoids the boondoggles of NAT - eating up ports, by maintaining a 1:1 ration b/w public and private addresses. This sidesteps the issues that one usually sees in NAT overloading - few public addresses having to handle several private addresses w/ the help of ports.

    4. Re:IPv4 address un-retrievable b'cos.... by bsdasym · · Score: 1

      I don't get it. You have the words directly from the inventor of the technology and you think he's wrong, that you know better? There were many reasons for the invention of NAT, IP address exhaustion did not rank highly among them. If anything, *that* was the side effect, as the device and technology were originally marketed without even a nod in that direction. It was only after it was invented and tested that some people saw "hey, this can help with that IP address allocation mess too."

      Disputing this is pointless -- the inventor of the technology has spoken, explaining why it was created. The uses it's served since then can't change that.

      Off topic ironic finger pointing: RFC1466 which addressed potential future exhaustion and came up with additional guidelines for assigning IP blocks was written by Elise Gerich, who was director of national something or other at Merit, a non-profit that networks universities in Michigan. Merit has two /11's, two /12's, two /13's, and several smaller blocks -- just in 35/8 -- assigned to them just a year after authoring the RFC. http://whois.arin.net/rest/net... Somebody didn't read their own memo.

    5. Re: IPv4 address un-retrievable b'cos.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has anyone heard of Enhanced IP? It's an extension to IPv4 NAT that could extend the life of IPv4. www.enhancedip.org Thoughts?

    6. Re:IPv4 address un-retrievable b'cos.... by Bengie · · Score: 1

      On average, NAT reduces security. It is a leaky abstraction with no standard implementation and is know to have many bugs for any given implementation. NAT many times reduces security because many of these bugs can allow external attackers to effectively by-pass the stateful firewall.

    7. Re: IPv4 address un-retrievable b'cos.... by Bengie · · Score: 1

      According to their site, it's not backwards compatible. yay.. You need to patch your network state to make it work. That's the whole issue with why we need IPv6, because we can't afford to patch anything. And no one is going to make a hardware router that will handle that horrible datastructure. Splitting routing information around the packet.

      Yes, the idea works, but only if you can patch a lot of stuff and no hardware is going to support it, only software. It's very limited in usage.

  49. Re:IP V.666 by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    Maybe we should all be assigned a /64 from birth and have it tattooed on our arms.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  50. Re:IP V.666 by Coren22 · · Score: 0

    Acting like you somehow won any of those arguments, then posting agreeing with yourself? Really? How pathetic are you?

    You won nothing in any of those discussions, and you don't even seem to understand how very wrong you are.

    What is DNSBL APK? What internet service uses it? How does it work? How will your hosts file prevent it? How will you get around your block on a DNSBL that prevents you sending mail to servers that use it?

    Please inform me oh wise ass. You know everything about the internet and its functions, but you can't even understand the difference between these two things:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Please inform me of how you will get around DNSBL? Please show me how wise you are.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  51. "This comes almost exactly 3 years after... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

    ...Europe ran out." I'd be more impressed if I'd heard anything about this in Europe. If people are suffering there, nobody's talking about it...

  52. Re:They exist. Prices still low. New digital divid by budgenator · · Score: 1

    It will also be interesting to see if a new digital divide develops, with some people still without IPv6 connectivity and stuff they want only available via IPv6. (Again, I doubt it will be an issue.)

    Just start a rumor that Google gives preferential page rank to IPv6, then everybody and everything will be on it!

    --
    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  53. Re:They exist. Prices still low. New digital divid by unixisc · · Score: 1

    A new digital divide can only be due to IPv4 scarcity. There won't be any scarcity of IPv6 addresses to anyone anywhere. Only problem may be a place not having IPv6 supporting equipment, but that's not something that one can't shop around for

  54. ask your military to share some by YoungManKlaus · · Score: 1

    I remember something along the lines of those guys reserving like half the address space ...

  55. cloud? by cdwiegand · · Score: 1

    So when will the cloud providers FINALLY start really supporting IPv6? My company, as many do, uses Amazon EC2, RDS, S3, etc.., and the closest Amazon gets to IPv6 is their load balancers, which can't support the domain apex unless you also use their DNS. I refuse to pay per query for their DNS, so that means I can't use their load balancers for my websites and my client's websites. So no IPv6 for me.

    And as far as I can tell, Google's and Microsoft's clouds still don't support IPv6 either.. :(

    --
    . Define sqrt(x) as something really evil like (x / rand()), and bury it deep. Watch your coworkers go nuts.
  56. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  57. Dave420 "eats his words" again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject & "read em' & weep" Dave420 http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    * "EATING YOUR WORDS" != GOOD NUTRITION fool!

    APK

    P.S.=> How'd they taste, Dave420? Flavored with the "bitter taste of SELF-defeat", & washed down with your FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH ramming them down?? LMAO @ U, fool... apk

  58. Coren22 the noob hypocrite "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: Eating your words != good nutrition you hypocrite noob http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...

  59. Coren22 "eating his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  60. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  61. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  62. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  63. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  64. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  65. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  66. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  67. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  68. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  69. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  70. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  71. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  72. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  73. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  74. Coren22 "eats his words" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Tell us another one, hypocrite - You admitted using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows, hmmm?

    ANSWER:

    I have to do it that way, to protect AND speed up users plus make their connections online more reliable!

    (The latter of which also functions to make users faster than adblocking alone, by resolving host-domain names to IP address from hosts cached in RAM locally - far faster than calling out to remote DNS & less complex + less overheads ridden vs. locally installed DNS (less power, & FAR LESS if done on a separate machine)).

    ---

    Aha! What's this Coren22 admits?

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    See subject & BOTH quotes from you contradicting yourself!

    (& a REAL security pro, Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment... ).

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO - "EAT YOUR WORDS" you hypocritical STUPID little technically incompetent troll wannabe security guru, lol - you're constantly trolling me, your post history shows it - NOW, you're getting a DOSE OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE (How's it taste? Better than how "eating your words" does I bet!)

    ... apk

  75. Wide Open West by shalomsky · · Score: 1

    Hello User: Thank you for contacting WOW! Internet, Cable , and Phone via email. My name is Sherri. I apologize for the delay in responding to your email. I apologize for the inconvenience but at this time there is no information about when we will start utilizing the IPv6 protocol. Please let us know if there is anything else that we can do to assist you. If you have an issue that requires immediate attention, WOW! Customer Service is available 24/7 for your convenience at 1-866-496-9669. Respectfully, Sherri - C6671 Advanced Support Specialist, Tier II WOW! Internet, Cable and Phone