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Ditch Linux For Windows 10 On Your Raspberry Pi With Microsoft's IoT Kit

Posted by samzenpus on from the get-started dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Partnering with Adafruit, Microsoft has announced the Windows IoT Core Starter Kit. The $75 kit comes comes with an SD card preloaded with Windows 10 IoT. According to the Raspberry Pi blog: "The pack is available with a Pi 2 for people who are are new to Raspberry Pi or who'd like a dedicated device for their projects, or without one for those who'll be using a Pi they already own. The box contains an SD card with Windows 10 Core and a case, power supply, wifi module and Ethernet cable for your Pi; a breadboard, jumper wires and components including LEDs, potentiometers and switches; and sensors for light, colour, temperature and pressure. There's everything you need to start building."

48 of 308 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Uh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's perfect. Now my Pi can have Telemetry!
    DirectX ought to come in handy, too.

  2. pft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    why the hell would I want to do that?

    1. Re:pft... by edxwelch · · Score: 5, Funny

      masochism?

  3. Avoid the Microsoft tax! by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Build your own Raspberry Pi kit. It will be cheaper.

    1. Re:Avoid the Microsoft tax! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I did a while ago. But you still need win 10 as a development station for Windows 10 IoT Core. kinda lame.

      http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupPCRPI.htm
      "
      To setup your Windows 10 IoT Core development PC, you first need to install the following:

      Make sure you are running the public release of Windows 10 (version 10240) or better. You can upgrade from here. If you are already running Windows 10, you can find your current build number by clicking the start button and typing “winver” and hitting enter.

      Install Visual Studio 2015
      We recommend Community Edition.
      If you already have or choose to install Visual Studio Professional 2015 or Visual Studio Enterprise 2015 (available here), make sure to do a Custom install and select the checkbox Universal Windows App Development Tools -> Tools and Windows SDK.
      Install Windows IoT Core Project Templates from here. Alternatively, the templates can be found by searching for Windows IoT Core Project Templates in the Visual Studio Gallery or directly from Visual Studio in the Extension and Updates dialog (Tools > Extensions and Updates > Online).

      Make sure you’ve enabled developer mode by following these instructions."

    2. Re:Avoid the Microsoft tax! by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Microsoft's contribution to this kit is Windows 10 Lite OS installed on the memory card. Jameco sells a similar kit for $60. If you're willing to scrounge around for individual parts, you might put together a identical kit that cost less.

      http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2156164_-1

    3. Re:Avoid the Microsoft tax! by war4peace · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you're willing to code a lot, you can build your own OS.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    4. Re:Avoid the Microsoft tax! by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      I'll add that to my to-do list as soon as I get finished writing a chess engine in Python.

    5. Re:Avoid the Microsoft tax! by khellendros1984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No one who is a serious Pi user today will bother giving this a look.

      Most of the people asking about Windows 10 in the Pi group I take part in are just interested in running "Windows 10" on a cheap computer, and they generally lose interest when they learn that it doesn't even provide a GUI. Developers actually talking about writing software for it have been few and far between.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    6. Re:Avoid the Microsoft tax! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Easy. The tax "cost" has been shifted from cash to telemetry. You're still paying, just not directly from your wallet.

      Only a complete moron would buy this kit.

    7. Re:Avoid the Microsoft tax! by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you take into account the added effort of protecting you privacy and having it break on patches you cannot refuse, I would say the Win10 downgrade is excessively expensive.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    8. Re:Avoid the Microsoft tax! by storkus · · Score: 2

      When you go to the grocery store, do you whine about the Kellogs tax on your Corn Flakes?

      No, because I have the option of buying some other brand like Post or Malt-o-Meal, or the house brand. Micro$oft is doing everything it can to make sure you don't get a choice and have to pay them even if you use someone else's software.

      Want Android? Pay M$.
      Want Apple? You're probably paying M$.
      Want a PC? Unless you build it yourself, you're paying M$. Even if you don't, they're still controlling the hardware specs.

      This is extortion and monopolization at its finest.

      Meanwhile, my blood ran cold when I read this knowing that LadyAda sold out. I guess she needed the money. So much for Adafruit.

    9. Re:Avoid the Microsoft tax! by tibit · · Score: 2

      I can't develop an iphone app without enduring a multi gigabyte download/install of "XCode"?? are you for real?

      LOL. When you install any development platform, do you think that the compilers, libraries and "documentation" just materializes itself from thin air? You had to download all of that stuff anyway.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
  4. You really make it hard by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dumping a system that works and does what I want for a system that spies on me and will change at the whim of its maker with but a "swallow bitch" if I complain.

    Decisions, decisions...

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:You really make it hard by nyet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You jest, but Windows is far and above king of backward compatibility as far as APIs are concerned.

      Right. Like the amazing job they did with winsock?

    2. Re:You really make it hard by Gr8Apes · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You jest, but Windows is far and above king of backward compatibility as far as APIs are concerned.

      We can start with Office95 breaking backwards compatibility with all previous versions of Office, and the attempt to do the same with Office 2010. Then you can go look up how .NET's incompatibilities between versions cause havoc. Don't forget to look up Win32 System API calls, especially in the security area. Finally, finish off with retraining everyone on every release of a MS product because the GUI has randomly been redesigned, and I use "designed" as a concept loosely here, other than maybe to cause maximize confusion in users as a primary goal.

      Backwards compatibility? Only enough so they can use it as a marketing bullet by saying you don't "have" to upgrade your other latest MS software....

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    3. Re:You really make it hard by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I just had to post something against the classic /. hivemind. What do I do to myself. You see, I mentioned APIs specifically, because I was talking about their APIs. Not Office. Not their latest shiny UI throw up. Their APIs. I'm a dev, I've been using their APIs extensively for close to two decades, and that's the perspective I wanted to give. I wasn't commenting on the quality of Linux vs Windows IOT, or the benefits (or lack thereof) of backward compatibility.

      you can go look up how .NET's incompatibilities between versions cause havoc. Don't forget to look up Win32 System API calls, especially in the security area.

      Yes, you can.

      Newer .NET versions tend to, in the vast majority of cases, be backwards compatible with apps compiled for older versions. They have broken this in some very niche cases, but only where strongly justified. Their wont for backward compatibility is so great, they will leave in bugs and even keep the internal structure of objects the same to ensure any apps relying on that continue to work. I've submitted my share of bugs that ended up in the "won't fix" pile due to this.

      Their Win32 API is probably the single largest working example of "backward compatible" you'll find in an API. The thing is for better or worse riddled with deprecated functionality, "Ex" functions to replace it, and structs which need to know their own size. Run an old Win32 app from the Windows 95 days and there's a really good chance it'll still work today. There are very few cases where they've made something specifically not work, and that has sometimes been because people have been using it wrong to the detriment of the user (i.e. retrieving the Windows version).

      Their driver side tends to fluctuate a bit more as they make performance or safety enhancements by replacing the various APIs, but there's really no way around that.

    4. Re:You really make it hard by msobkow · · Score: 2

      I suggest you look into the history of POSIX before making this claim. POSIX goes back way before Linux was even a gleam in Linus' eye, and Linux is still compatible with it.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  5. Security by mhkohne · · Score: 4, Informative

    As if IoT wasn't insecure enough already - let's put the BIGGEST consumer malware target into everything!

    Anyone else think this is bad idea?

    --
    A thousand pounds of wood moving at 300 feet per minute. Don't get in the way.
  6. The Year on Linux on the desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    is the year that Windows will replace Linux on the IoT.

  7. The question is 'why' by Junta · · Score: 5, Informative

    'why' for developers and 'why' for microsoft as well.

    For developers, MS is so mismatched to the sensibilities of the embedded space, business and technology wise. Picking up the ball and going home from one linux to another or even to something like a BSD is easy enough if you have to. If you commit to MS ecosystem, there's no where to go if things pan out poorly (e.g, Windows mobile, windows ce, windows phone (at least 7 was a dead end), Windows RT). MS has a terrible track record in this space, even when their wheelhouse of desktop application ecosystem has some relevance, where the Pi has pretty much no relevance (it may have video out, but there are better choices for even ARM based graphical systems than Pi). MS ecosystem is in general so *alien* compared to the rest of the industry, you *really* have to believe in it to commit. It's silly to bet your project on MS's technology and ongoing commitment to the platform in this market.

    For MS, what do they hope to get out of this? They are coming into this from behind, against a competitor that gives away for free and where the entire ecosystem is tilted against them. They are going in to explore with no royalties, and no path to profit, or even revenue. Incidentally this has some resemblance to when they tried to break into 'supercomputing' nearly a decade ago, only to give up and let the resources mostly scatter to the winds when they figured out that there was no money to be made in the market, despite the prestige.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    1. Re:The question is 'why' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The "change" in Linux is mostly invisible, and backwards compatible. For one thing, the POSIX API is there and remains unchanged, and is identical across all Linux variants, not to mention all the BSDs variants. POSIX is the #1 reason to stick with Linux or an open source variant. All this systemd non-sense? As an embedded and appliance developer, I couldn't care less. Systemd, BSD RC, it doesn't make any difference to me because I don't make any assumptions one way or another--you have to _actively_ work to become dependent on something like systemd. If daemonizing or logging is a chore, you're doing it wrong; and you can never go wrong by supporting a mode where you don't fork and simply print logs to stderr, which makes you compatible with every service framework ever invented.

      The APIs for the desktop and GUI crowd are more volatile, but the beautiful thing about open source is that 1) nobody can ever force to move away from a framework and 2) it's much easier to move to a newer framework because you have access to the code, allowing you to hack together intermediate solutions until you're upgraded.

      Windows offers none of those things.

      Of course, lots of developers on Linux rely too much on non-standard GNU extensions, niche Linux kernel APIs, and make a host of other bad decisions which will come back to haunt them in the future. Indeed, many of those developers come from the Windows world where using and abusing hidden APIs is something of right of passage. But that was their decision to make. The rest of us who take a long (decades long) view know how to steer clear of dangerous dependencies, or how to isolate dependencies on such APIs so they don't poison the entire codebase.

    2. Re:The question is 'why' by fisted · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This would be a better argument if not for the plethora of distributions and the constancy of change on the Linux [actually: GNU] side of things.

      FTFY. Your argument might be true for the unix clone(s), but the real unices (and that doesn't mean "Trademark UNIX" but "source code ancestry") do not welcome change just for sake of changing something. Quite the opposite.

      --
      CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
    3. Re:The question is 'why' by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Windows as an embedded platform is really attractive to companies. They can reuse a lot of their existing software with minimal changes, and reuse their existing developers. Real embedded and Linux experts are much less common and much more expensive than .NET monkeys. If you do have problems, MS has support (even if it sucks).

      It's the same reason that, despite being absolutely awful, WinCE is widely used. The same reason that ATMs run Windows XP.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:The question is 'why' by kirkb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As a developer with >20 years of embedded experience, nothing makes me sadder than seeing desktop developers (like your .Net monkeys) programming in an embedded environment. They don't understand multi-threading. They don't understand being efficient with CPU cycles and with memory. They struggle if luxuriously rich API's and libraries are not available.

      Whenever I see a kiosk or a bank ATM with a BSOD or windows error dialog on the screen, I know that the wrong kinds of developers worked on that project.

      --
      Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
    5. Re:The question is 'why' by geoskd · · Score: 2

      It's the same reason that, despite being absolutely awful, WinCE is widely used. The same reason that ATMs run Windows XP.

      Wince isn't widely used. There are a few large customers who (for reasons passing baffling) stay with microsoft. Most everyone else in the embedded space uses linux, or spins their own OS. There are 15 Billion embedded devices connected to the internet, and approximately 10x that many standalone embedded single board computers. Of those, less than 80 Million run Wince, with that number steadily dwindling. That's less than 1/2 of 1%. Microsoft makes relatively little money on embedded systems (to get companies to use their products at all, the per unit cost has to be ridiculously low). It's part of the reason that Microsoft largely ignored the embedded devices markets (including MP3 players among others) until after other companies exploded the markets, and suddenly microsoft realised they had missed the boat and jumped in the water to try and swim after.

      At the end of the day, microsoft has nothing to offer the embedded market that others aren't already better at, cheaper at, and less likely to pull the rug out from under their legs.

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    6. Re:The question is 'why' by PPH · · Score: 2

      .NET monkeys

      I think companies have caught on to the true cost of this approach. NET monkeys are cheap for a reason. And we can't wait for that one in an infinite crowd to luck out and crank out a Shakespeare.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  8. All your (P)r(I)vacy belongs (2) U.S. ? by burni2 · · Score: 2

    And you will get a free update offer for Windows11!
    And once it's not free anymore we will force it onto you!

    Sensorinformation Privacy "Sharing" E.U.L.A.
    You hereby transfering all your sensory data from the PI to the microsoft cloud.

  9. Why would I run windows on the Rpi 2? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why would I run windows on it? One of the main advantages of Windows is all the programs compiled for it, but those are all compiled for x86 windows, not Windows 10 on Arm. Apparently it won't even run office.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  10. Re:I guess that's pretty cool. by sumdumass · · Score: 2

    I dunno. It might be nice having a ms honey pot that you can make appear like any number of different devices. If you log it effectively, you might just find exploits that cross over to other windows versions.

  11. Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hi, thank you so much for the offer but I'm afraid I'll have to decline. It was really nice of you to offer, and believe me I feel terrible about this, but I'm not going to be able switch from Linux to Windows 10 on my rasbpi. Hope this doesn't hurt your feelings in any way and I apologize profusely for not being able to use your fine product.

    As an aside, I also hope this won't affect your intentions with the data you've been collecting from my Windows 10 desktop machine. I still think your company is awesome and please don't consider this as an affront and thereby sell or distribute the personal information you've attained. Pretty please.

    Thanks for all of the high-quality software you've shared with us over the years. Hope your day is a happy and productive one.
    - Steve

  12. The big question is by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 2

    Will it be able to playback netflix?

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
  13. FUCK No by zlives · · Score: 4, Funny

    just trying to make sure all iterations of "no" are covered.

  14. How much would you pay? by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How much would you pay to have a software development platform that is more difficult to use? $25? $50? no, for only $74.99 you too can run a limited subset of Windows kernel on Raspberry Pi! (plus $0.01 handling)

    This is sort of like the opposite philosophy of Ardunio, instead of a simple IDE where people can get things done you can have a hairy ball of software and expensive tools where few people (if any) get to making their projects go.

    Linux on the target plus eclipse/emacs/vi/whatever on the host is all you really need to make a RPi go. There are cross compile suites for Windows and Mac, and they tend to integrate with most IDEs (maybe not so well with Visual Studio, but if you really want that option I guess Window IoT is made just for you)

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:How much would you pay? by j2.718ff · · Score: 2

      The Raspberry Pi was meant to be an affordable, educational computer for children. Not a $35 replacement for a $300 media box.

      Funny, that's exactly what I'm using my pi for. It does a great job running Kodi. The old PC it replaced would sometimes drop frames at 1080p, but not my pi2. (I can't speak to the streaming options like Netflix, as all my media is local.)

  15. How much $ is MS making off all this snooping OS? by denis-The-menace · · Score: 2

    MS seems to be bending over backwards to has this OS installed everywhere for FREE.

    No Corp does anything for free.

    e.g. Lenovo is probably getting getting paid by the Chinese Gov. for its info.

    Has anyone "Followed the money" ?

    --
    Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
  16. Technical stuff. Read if you want real info. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There were a ton of misconceptions and two tons of lies/crap (can't tell which) going on over at the Ars Technica comments thread about this earlier today.

    1) Windows 10 IoT is free. There is no paid-for version of WinIoT. (And you thought "WinCE" was a bad nickname...)
    2) WinIoT is NOT based on the main WinNT kernel. It's based on good-old Windows Embedded Handheld, not Windows Embedded Compact. WinEC is based on WinXP, and is thus part of mainline NT, but WinEH is based on WinCE.
    3) It uses .Net Micro Framework (NetMF), which is a stripped-down version of the standard .Net Framework (NetFX). It shares virtually nothing in common with the old .Net Compact Framework (NetCF), and is, in fact, less stripped-down than that.
    4) If you like Linux, then use it. The reason to use WinIoT is if you already have a ton of experience working with .Net and the rest of Windows. Nobody (reasonable) gets belligerent and calls you an asshole because you use Linux, so have the same consideration for those that work with, or even *gasp* like, WinIoT.
    5) WinIoT doesn't spy. It's too stripped-down to do most of that telemetry crap, and people (even "true believers") would piss/bitch/moan/threaten-mob-action if they were to waste precious processor cycles on an embedded platform for that crap anyway.
    6) WinIoT doesn't auto-update. Again, people would be pissed off if their "things" suddenly stopped working because an update broke compatibility. Not gonna happen. (Also, it's WinCE, so it never had an update cycle to begin with.)

    Now that that's all out of the way, there can be a civil discussion (read: no discussion, because this is the internet, and everyone hates everyone else).

    1. Re:Technical stuff. Read if you want real info. by Palinchron · · Score: 2

      6) WinIoT doesn't auto-update. Again, people would be pissed off if their "things" suddenly stopped working because an update broke compatibility. Not gonna happen.

      The exact same consideration applies on desktop windows, and microsoft doesn't give a crap about such complaints in that area. Why would they feel differently for WinIoT?

      --
      The lesson here is that a sufficiently large corporation is indistinguishable from government. --ultranova
  17. Welcome to the party, pal! by niks42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I remember when Microsoft used to try to compete against us with Windows NT replacing OS/2 (OS/2!!!) on ATM machines. It took them a very, very long time.

    I remember when Microsoft used to try to compete against IBM embedded PC/DOS on handhelds. It took them a very, very long time.

    Now I shudder at the thought that they might just impact on IoT. They've started late, and it may take them a very, very long time but they are a relentless, well-funded and Government approved software company. This is a genuine threat, people and you shouldn't just laugh it off.

  18. Crock. by sillivalley · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To start with, I have to dedicate a PC to Windows 10 in order to do Windows development for my Pi 2?

    Or, I can continue to run Raspbian (Debian) on the Pi and host development on the Pi, or do cross-development on other Linux hosts or my Mac.

    I know the overhead/footprint Raspbian imposes, and I know how to carve out the bits I don't need.

    How do I do that with Windows 10?

    Easy! Stick to Raspbian!

    Oh, I realize I won't have access to the latest development tools like Visual Studio, .NET APIs, viruses, trojans, and whatnot infesting on the Windows 10 ecosystem.
    Thanks, I'll stick with Raspbian on the Pi, and not having to support a separate Windows 10 box as well.

  19. Ya by tom229 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Because Windows on ARM has been nothing but a giant success so far.

    --
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
  20. Sold out by iONiUM · · Score: 2

    From the comments it's clear that people think this is a terrible idea, and on a somewhat pro-Linux site that's to be expected. But it should be noted that this kit was way more popular than Adafruit though and they sold out rather quickly with people still asking for it.

    It may just be that some people like coding against Windows and are more comfortable with it than Linux.

  21. Re:I guess that's pretty cool. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Funny

    It might be nice having a ms honey pot ...

    With the impending IoT, I suspect that eventually, actual jars of honey will have IP addresses ... allowing one to make the metaphor a reality.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  22. Re:$75 is not a half /bad/ price... by PPH · · Score: 2

    You're kidding, right?

    The Rasperry Pi isn't included in that kit. Pricing that stuff out, Microsoft is getting something like $50 for the Windows 10 image on the SD card.,

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  23. Re:Uh? by Eythian · · Score: 5, Funny

    It doesn't come with a GUI, so if you want a working display, you need Linux.

    I don't think anyone has ever said those words before.

  24. Uh? #2 by Reprint001 · · Score: 2

    I need an expensive Windows 10 PC to even start developing with Win IoT??? From Microsoft's Get Started guide - http://ms-iot.github.io/conten... "Make sure you are running the public release of Windows 10 (version 10240) or better. You can upgrade from here. If you are already running Windows 10, you can find your current build number by clicking the start button and typing “winver” and hitting enter." With a Raspbian/Linux based Pi kit I can be coding within minutes on the Pi itself I don't need an additional PC! This is just a way to shove desktop Windows 10 down people's throats! Again, as if!!

  25. Re:Uh? by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 2

    It's perfect. Now my Pi can have Telemetry! DirectX ought to come in handy, too.

    Just as we don't have Pi's telling us to go out and find some dodgy hookers, maybe pick up some syphilis, share a few needles and get hepatitis, so we shouldn't be telling Pi's to infect themselves with Win10.

  26. Re:ATMs by fisted · · Score: 2

    For ATMs, Windows 8 - just the Metro part - would have been ideal.

    I don't think "ideal" means what you think it means...

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