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Japan Display Squeezes 8K Resolution Into 17-inch LCD, Cracks 510 PPI At 120Hz

MojoKid writes: By any metric, 8K is an incredibly high resolution. In fact, given that most HD content is still published in 1080p, the same could be said about 4K. 4K packs in four times the pixels of 1080p, while 8K takes that and multiplies it by four once again; we're talking 33,177,600 pixels. We've become accustomed to our smartphones having super-high ppi (pixels-per-inch); 5.5-inch 1080p phones are 401 ppi, which is well past the point that humans are able to differentiate individual pixels. Understanding that highlights just how impressive Japan Display's (JDI) monitor is, as it clocks in at 510 ppi in a 17-inch panel. Other specs include a 2000:1 contrast ratio, a brightness of 500cd/m2, and a 176 degree viewing angle. While the fact that the company achieved 8K resolution in such a small form-factor is impressive in itself, also impressive is the fact that it has a refresh rate of 120Hz.

42 of 178 comments (clear)

  1. What applications? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can't wait for this in a laptop. I'm tired of horrible resolution and smaller laptop screens.

    1. Re:What applications? by gweilo8888 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Applications like "viewing with your eyeball actually pressed to the cover glass." You know, real critical ones.

      Nothing at all to do with getting the biggest feel-good number on the spec sheet, No sir, not at all.

    2. Re:What applications? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, the idea is that the pixel density is so great that the pixels are not even on your mind.

    3. Re:What applications? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're wrong. For looking at a website, sure this may be overkill. But for medical applications -- reading digital x-rays and MRI scans, for instance -- it's most definitely not overkill; very, very small and low-contrast features on medical images often are of crucial importance.

    4. Re:What applications? by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's not so great. I've seen an image of the new display on the Internet and it has the same pixel density as my monitor.

    5. Re:What applications? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      AMOLED is supposed to be brighter and lower power than the alternatives. My current phone is 2560x1440 and lasts much much longer than my S3 with much lower resolution. The problem may be TouchWiz, not the resolution.

      It wouldn't be hard for purpose-built hardware to fake a lower resolution. Don't make the GPU drive an 8k monitor, if the source is 720. Have the GPU drive 720, and either in the GPU or monitor, upscale to fit the monitor. Tricks like that, which work fine in a laptop where you are guaranteed which monitor will be plugged into the video card shouldn't be hard to keep down power usage.

    6. Re:What applications? by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Funny

      Remember to use gold plated connectors to get the best visual fidelity.

    7. Re:What applications? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      But what else am I going to connect my diamond plated, gold enfused, gas pumped Monster Cables too?

    8. Re:What applications? by Pentium100 · · Score: 3, Informative

      120Hz is good, 8K native resolution is also good, even if I would not use the monitor at that resolution. One of my problems with LCDs is that they distort the image if the resolutions do not match. CRTs do not have this problem. An 8K 17" LCD also won't have this problem. Whether I would set it to 1920x1200, 1280x800 or 1152x864 (4:3 with pillarbox), the image would look just as nice as on a CRT.

      120Hz means faster image update rate at any resolution (unlike my CRT which can do 160Hz at some low resolution but only 85Hz at 1920x1200, a LCD that does only 60Hz at its max resolution does not get any faster at lower resolutions).

      I am only concerned now with the input lag and black levels, but it seems that one day I will be able to replace my CRT monitor with a similar size LCD (24") that will have higher resolution and none of the annoyances of current LCDs.

    9. Re:What applications? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Panasonic sells 4k monitors of this size in volume to the medical industry, and for engineering work (CAD). It's likely that they will upgrade to 8k soon and use that to spur development of the technology. Those industries will pay 5x as much for a GPU because it is guaranteed to produce correct output (gamers won't notice a single pixel being slightly the wrong shade of green now and then), so it's clear that there is demand from them. They basically want to eliminate any visible aliasing issues entirely, which is also why they pay for very high end printers.

      --
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    10. Re:What applications? by Alioth · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In other words, virtual reality. The problem with the current VR headsets like the DK2, is you have effectively a 1080p display that fills most of your field of vision, in other words, yes - you can see the pixels and they are pretty big. The screen door effect is also pretty bad. Text is very difficult to read using the Rift DK2 unless the text is very large.

      Developing very high PPI displays will be a real benefit for VR headsets. Tne next crop (the Vive/SteamVR and Oculus CV1) have better resolution (IIRC it's something like 1200 pixels vertical) and probably will have much less of a screen door effect, but the resolution really needs doubling at least for a VR headset to truly feel HD.

    11. Re:What applications? by Alioth · · Score: 2

      Oculus Rift DK2 is already 1080p vertical resolution, but it's nowhere near enough. The next versions will be about 1200 vertical which will help. Really the displays in the headsets need to be approaching 4K for a full-on-HD experience.

    12. Re:What applications? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, the idea is that the pixel density is so great that the pixels are not even on your mind.

      But that is already true with current retina displays. Even 4k is total overkill for a 17 inch monitor. You won't notice the difference.

      This is only true in Apple marketing land. Apple retina marketing has misled a lot of people into believing that their "retina" displays match the maximum resolution of human vision, but they do not. This page details how we can see 530 ppi at 20 inch viewing distance, which is higher than even the display this story is about: http://clarkvision.com/imagedetail/eye-resolution.html

    13. Re:What applications? by tomxor · · Score: 2

      My monitor is 22" 1080p and I don't see pixels.

      Your monitor has < 100 PPI

      The only reason you don't perceive pixels is due to anti aliasing or because you're using it as a TV.

    14. Re:What applications? by azcoyote · · Score: 2

      Remember to use gold plated connectors to get the best visual fidelity.

      I've been getting 8K resolution for years just by jamming my Denon Link Cable directly into my eye socket to interface with the optic nerve. It only hurt the first few times.

      --
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    15. Re: What applications? by Coren22 · · Score: 2

      The human eye however has a maximum resolution that's not about to change anytime soon without genetic engineering,

      Yeah, and we are still nowhere near max resolution.

      http://hardware.slashdot.org/c...

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    16. Re:What applications? by Pentium100 · · Score: 2

      On a CRT:
      Black levels are better - the black part of the screen emits as much light as a monitor that's completely off.
      There is no input lag, at all.
      1440x900 looks just as nice as 1920x1200, no scaling artifacts.
      The colors do not change, no matter the viewing angle.

      Now, the last part is taken care of by the 8K display, now just the input lag and black levels remain.

      "Contrast" is a bit different. Some monitors claim to have high contrast, but actually have really crap black levels, it's just that at full brightness it is as bright as a 60W lightbulb. I do not need that. I need the black color to be black, not gray.

      Which is actually one of my complaints about my new plasma TV. I bought a plasma TV (one of the last) because the black levels are better on a plasma. Still, compared to my CRT TV the black levels are crap (so, an LCD would be even worse), however, it turns out that it is possible to adjust them by turning some potentiometers on the power supply board - I am waiting for the warranty to expire and I will adjust it.

    17. Re:What applications? by wirefarm · · Score: 2

      If I did that, what would I do with the microscope? I just finished paying for it

      --
      -- My Weblog.
  2. Any monitor would crack at 510 PPI by fleabay · · Score: 5, Funny

    Any monitor would crack at 510 pounds per square inch regardless of the Hz.

    1. Re:Any monitor would crack at 510 PPI by Khyber · · Score: 2

      "The symbol for "pounds per square inch" units is "psi" not "ppi". You dumb fuck."

      Those are letters and abbreviations, not symbols, you dumb fuck.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  3. Not wasted by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Before anyone goes around calling this pointless, the Japanese (as well as many other Asian countries) character system benefits from a higher resolution more than the writing systems used by most all Western countries. The symbols are far more dense, which makes the additional resolution more useful.

    Here's a good image that shows off that difference that additional resolution can achieve.

    1. Re: Not wasted by bmo · · Score: 2

      >It's probably industrial

      Or medical.

      X-rays are sent 'round the hospital not on film these days, but as files. 7-8 years ago XGA flat panels and similar were pretty standard at RI Hospital. The thing is, when you have a fracture that is the head of your radius pushed into your radius, it's very difficult to see the actual break with that fuzzy resolution (because it looks normal). After going home with some Oxycontin (urgh, never again) I had to take the actual films to my orthopedist who put them on a wall mounted light-table and then it was plain to see. Even my untrained eye caught it.

      If it was an 8k display at RI Hospital, they would have seen it.

      (there is nothing you can really do for that kind of fracture anyway except to use a sling when the pain gets irritating - if a doctor puts a cast on you in the ER, go to your ortho and have it cut off the next couple of days, or else you're looking at surgery on your elbow later (my ortho told me this and he was right)).

      --
      BMO

    2. Re:Not wasted by Kjella · · Score: 2

      Back in the real world, The Martian was mastered in 2K and hardly anybody noticed. I have a UHD monitor and using RAW still photos I can tell the difference between a photo natively cropped to 3840x2160 and one that's between downscaled to 1920x1080 and back at my typically sitting distance but you need to watch some fine detail. There's no way I'd see anything past 4K. In theory a person with 20/10 vision (yes, they do exist) sitting in the middle of a large screen cinema should be able to see 7K, but that's only when trying to read one of those eye charts at maximum contrast.

      Most of the comparisons you see are not apples-to-apples comparison, they show you one 4K screen and one not-4K screen and surprise surprise the one they want to sell looks much better. I look forward to 4K BluRay though, in addition to resolution with HDR, Rec. 2020 and 10 bit color it will improve contrast, colors and banding All three of those are probably just as noticeable as the change in resolution, though I suspect it'll take a while before we have TVs that can take full advantage of it.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:Not wasted by jaa101 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just as a matter of basic freshman physics (Rayleigh criterion) humans do not have the optical hardware to see sub-arcminute sized detail.

      Yes, they really do. Arcminute resolution is only 20/20 vision (by definition) whereas more people manage 20/15 (corrected, better eye)[1]; that's 45 arcseconds. Almost 1% of people manage 20/10 or 30 arcseconds.

      Staying with 45 arcseconds, viewing distance to see the pixels on this display is then 9". If it were a 4K display of the same size the number would be 18".

  4. Direct Link by jaa101 · · Score: 3, Informative

    to the company's press release.

  5. 16:9? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If it's 16:9 ratio I'm not interested. You can pry 16:10 displays from my cold dead hands.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:16:9? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2

      You work in windowed interface. When the pixel density goes up, the importance of aspect ratio goes down.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re:16:9? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, he means 16:10. You may think you're awesome remembering grade school math, but comparing 16:10 to 16:9 is more intuitive, even for geniuses like you.

  6. What interface ? by x0ra · · Score: 4, Interesting

    4k already needs DisplayPort 1.2 to be able to push data at 60Hz. What interface can conveniently push 8k at 120Hz ??

    1. Re:What interface ? by x0ra · · Score: 4, Informative

      doing the quick math, 4k@60Hz require 14Gbps of bandwidth, so 8k@120Hz should at least be able to push 112Gbps... Not anytime soon.

    2. Re:What interface ? by Lost+Race · · Score: 3, Informative

      According to my calculations, 7680*4320 pixels * 24 bits/pixel * 120 Hz equals about 95 gigabits/second. Wow.

    3. Re:What interface ? by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      DP 1.3 is 32.4Gbps (25.92Gbps net through after overhead) which is sufficient for 8k/30Hz full 24bit video at ~25Gbps, and 8k/60Hz using 4:2:0 subsampling. That's clearly not ideal for a computer screen, where you would want 4:4:4, but is probably good enough for nearly any screen up to about 40-50" (and likely on towards 100") regardless of distance when reproducing video (moving) content.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    4. Re:What interface ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      eDP 1.4a allows for a single link of up to 16 lanes at HBR3.
      That's 103.68Gbps usable, enough for 7680x4320/120Hz 24bpp without any chroma subsampling shenanigans.

    5. Re:What interface ? by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 4, Informative

      http://arstechnica.com/gadgets...

      Apparently Embedded DisplayPort (eDP) 1.4a is claiming enough bandwidth and functionality to support 8k@60Hz, and in Feb this year they were expecting products to be available in 2016.

      "Embedded" means the spec is for laptop/tablet/phone and other all-in-one type devices (eg iMac).

      --
      Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
    6. Re:What interface ? by Whiternoise · · Score: 2

      Could you multiplex several ports? Skylake is capable of driving 3x4k monitors at 60Hz. In principle there's no reason why you couldn't treat each quadrant of the display as a separate screen and send the relevant pixels to it (assuming rendering at that speed isn't a problem).

    7. Re:What interface ? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Consumer 8k is still a few years out. NHK, who invented it, are planning to start broadcasts in time for the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo. To that end they are ignoring 4k completely so they can concentrate on 8k.

      It's a big project. As well as 8k capable interconnects for consumer products, they need to develop new cameras (manual focus is far too difficult to be practical at that resolution, and current auto-focus is inadequate), new editing equipment, new make-up and sets, and of course a new broadcasting system that can compress ~100Gb/sec+ of data in real time and send it over existing channel bandwidth, for reception on a basic wideband antenna.

      Oh, and it supports 22 channel sound, but it's not clear if that will be used for broadcast.

      I saw a demo of it years ago and it was amazing. Really something else, incredibly life-like.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  7. As someone who deals with architectural drawings by Overzeetop · · Score: 2

    Wow - this would be great...though in a larger size - say 60ish inches; enough for a 30x42 plan at nearly 150 dpi with room on the side for toolbars. Throw in a wacom/n-trig digitizer interface and a stand that lets me mount it like a drafting table and I'd be in heaven.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  8. Re:Phones are higher density by ChrisMaple · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Graphics cards in computers draw most of their power doing lighting calculations for games, many calculations for each pixel. Phones just pass along pixel information from the source material, with nothing more complicated than scaling going on.

    Even a high end computer video card uses a lot less than maximum power when it's doing as little work as a phone does.

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  9. Re:Phones are higher density by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

    Desktop machines don't struggle at all. The phones will just be rendering 3D at a lower resolution and upscaling it.
    If you do the rendering at 720p and upscale it to 1440p... perhaps with a bit of filtering or anti-aliasing, it will still look good on a 5.5" screen.

  10. Gigahertz just hit a wall by grimJester · · Score: 2

    It's still a useful measure of speed; it just hasn't improved in a while.

  11. Re:ok, but... by mr_mischief · · Score: 2

    You can't see the whole image if you have an 4k image on a 4k screen and zoom in. You very seriously can't see all the data from an 8k image on a 4k screen. In graphic arts, a person might be making content for a 30-foot tall video billboard. A doctor might want better resolution of a full MRI, and then zoom in even finer. There's no dichotomy here. You aren't going to lose zooming.

  12. Would you buy a 300dpi printer? by billstewart · · Score: 2

    How long ago did 300dpi printing become obsolete? These days I usually print drafts at 600dpi, because laser printers and LANs are fast enough that it's not annoying, and I don't usually explicitly notice jaggies at 300dpi, but you can still tell that the higher resolution looks better, if you care.

    But that's black and white text printed on dead trees, not screens. Sure, it's harder to notice minor resolution differences with color photographs than with letters that have well-defined edges, and even harder to tell with moving images, but if you're using anti-aliased text on your screen, because it just looks better than non-anti-aliased, that's because you need more pixels. And yes, you've got enough GPU horsepower these days to trade the processing needed for anti-aliasing against the higher screen resolution, but you're doing it because your screen resolution isn't high enough.

    I'm using a 17" 1920x1080 screen, and I'd like more pixels. This is generally good enough, with anti-aliased fonts, and the 22" 1080p screen at my office looks surprisingly good, but I'd still prefer 2560 instead of 1920, and the big advantage of 4K would be to have two readable pages side-by-side, which means more pixels vertically. (Sure, 16:9's fine for watching movies, but that's very seldom what I'm using that screen real estate for.)

    --

    Bill Stewart
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