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Linux Kernel Dev Sarah Sharp Quits, Citing 'Brutal' Communications Style
JG0LD writes: A prominent Linux kernel developer announced today in a blog post that she would step down from her direct work in the kernel community. “My current work on userspace graphics enabling may require me to send an occasional quirks kernel patch, but I know I will spend at least a day dreading the potential toxic background radiation of interacting with the kernel community before I send anything,” Sharp wrote. Back in July, 2013 Sarah made a push to make the Linux Kernel Development Mailing List a more civil place.
I agree with you here, for the most part. I don't think it's so much as "when dealing with women", but more of a "when communicating as a professional". There's a time and a place for everything. Also, women need to lighten the fuck up.
This is one of those things that needs context.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
I'm a man and I don't like when guys feels it's ok to be bullying me.
Being nice is not so difficult.
No true Scotsman argument.
Lots of men are put off by the same BS behavior, the difference is that there is more pressure to conform / suck it up, etc. Company I know removed a manager who had this style and the team was composed solely of males in a male dominated profession. Environment was getting toxic so instead of allowing the department to fail upper management took action and probably saved the company.
Yeah no, men need to learn to communicate _differently_... at work, period. The socially gauche developer stereotype (or the 'brogrammer' type) are both toxic; it's not difficult to not be an asshole.
Reminds me of the old phrase about being able to dish it out all day but not being able to take it for one second.
Kind of reminds me of the whole Ellen Pao debacle where she accused people who worked with -- at a VC firm -- of being complete assholes. And she was right about that part. However, she lost the case because the facts showed that she was one of the biggest assholes in the whole place so she might as well have sued herself.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
What a load of stereotypical bollocks. I'm a man, and I don't accept or give abuse at work. If someone is rubbish, I'll tell them politely and professionally what they need to change, and if they continue to be rubbish, I'll fire them. Most of the women I have worked with seem to have the same sense of humour, skin-thickness and social skills as the men. i.e. if you are flat out rude and abusive, they get upset.
There is no need for for abusive leadership styles, irrespective of whether the team members or male or female.
Same here. You talk like that to me... either you're fired or I quit.
I'm a man and I think this is a shit way to treat a human being. No, it's not okay to treat me that way just because I have "outdoor plumbing". I'm not your bro. We're not going to bro down at the bar after you berate me.
This is a part of nerd culture that we need to not quietly condone any longer.
You're making crude generalizations on the basis of gender. I dare say that borderline bullying isn't a healthy environment for a lot of men or women; it's immature and unprofessional and, as Sarah Sharp eloquently points out in her post, by tolerating such a culture the leaders of the community in question are prioritising the "need" for people to express themselves aggressively over other people's potential need for respectful and sensitive communication.
It's all very well to say that people need to learn not to take things personally, but the fact is that you can't possibly know - especially not over a mailing list - just what emotional or personal issues a person might be going through. Do you really a want a situation where curious and potentially talented developers are put off contributing to an important project because of a toxic culture?
Also, women need to lighten the fuck up.
So, by default you assume the "man's perspective" is better than the "woman's perspective"? Interesting.
Also, as a man... grow up.
Maybe you appreciate being called a fuckwad by other men, but I don't.
Perl Programmer for hire
Men are blunt to each and will call you out on your bullshit to your face.
Women, on the other hand, will do it behind your back and will be far more vindictive about it.
That is the real difference.
I think given the growing size of the kernel, it's inevitable that there will be more opportunities for poor code to be submitted. There's more humans involved, more lines of code and more opportunity for "drama". I think it was inevitable at some point. I think he intentionally makes an example out of people occasionally. I think it keeps people on their toes. It certainly will make people double check that code before submitting it for fear of being embarrassed.
...What that means is they are privileging the emotional needs of other Linux kernel developers (to release their frustrations on others, to be blunt, rude, or curse to blow off steam) over my own emotional needs (the need to be respected as a person, to not receive verbal or emotional abuse). There’s an awful power dynamic there that favors the established maintainer over basic human decency....
That shows a complete lack of professional respect on the part of those who bully others by demanding the environment be so disrespectful.
.
In a professional environment, you criticize the work, not the person. Period.
Those who say that such bullying is par for the course are more part of the problem than part of the solution.
I don't like to be bullied either, therefore I don't allow people to do it. You have to take accountability for yourself. If the person is being a bully, call them out.
Get your PostgreSQL here: http://www.commandprompt.com/
NO. there's no excuse for being an asshole.
This isn't empowering women. This is arguing that they are weaker than men far more profoundly than any MRA red piller gamer gater misogynist could ever hope to accomplish.
Was about to post the same thing. The idea that men should just ignore their emotional needs is an example of toxic masculinity.
Being brutal about technical stuff is fine, welcome in fact. But to ignore to be deliberately brutal to the human being is both unnecessary and drives good people away.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Welcome to the game of power dynamics! If you call them out, will they make your life difficult? If you call them out, will they physically attack you? If you call them out, will they use their authority to subtly destroy your life or career? The answer to all these questions is "I don't know!"
Being an asshole and personally attacking the submitter doesn't help improve code. Its much more likely to alienate people and give them reasons to fuck you over in the future.
Further, if these people were to act this way in person they'd eventually get the shit kicked out of them.
Would you treat coworkers like that? In meatspace? If someone called me a fuckwad in a way that wasn't obviously jokey/ironic it would be a huge problem to me. Being nice and civil is a much better way to get things done. Like, grumpy/curmudgeonly is kinda par for the course but that's totally different.
I used to work with a really toxic dev that for whatever reason our management dept protected. He was extremely misogynistic and refused to work with any women. One time in a meeting he said something basically like "it's in the spec, you stupid bitch" (as an aside, it wasn't in the spec ;p). He used to get away with yelling at people etc. Then I got sucked into the daily meetings and said basically "there is no call to raise your voice in a meeting at work. if you have a personal problem with me, we can go outside and talk about it". Never had a problem with him after that - unsurprisingly most misogynists and bullies are in reality cowards.
Everyone who gets involved in kernel development (male, female or other) finds the whole process utterly brutal and gets the shit kicked out of them at some stage. While not all that nice sometimes it at least does ensure that ideas and code passes the mustard.
I generally try not to be a dickwad. However, I'm not in charge of a major software project. After reading Linus' explanation of why he isn't "nice" I can't say i disagree with him:
The fact is, people need to know what my position on things are. And I can't just say "please don't do that", because people won't listen. I say "On the internet, nobody can hear you being subtle", and I mean it.
And I definitely am not willing to string people along, either. I've had that happen too - not telling people clearly enough that I don't like their approach, they go on to re-architect something, and get really upset when I am then not willing to take their work.
If you were too chickenshit to test them on the grade school playground you will always be too chickenshit.
You don't even have to win the fight, you just have to hurt them, and they will leave you alone in the future. Mostly it's not an issue, bullies are usually cowards.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
You know, if in my place work work I had to put up with "You're being a fuckwad. Don't do this." my response is going to come down to "why do I have to listen to whiny little children not capable of communicating like adults?" I'm sorry, but in the real world there is an expectation people will act like grown ups. In fact, there's probably an HR department and some labor laws which say you are required to act like grownups. Your ass will be out on the street if you act like this.
This whole bullshit of women should just suck it up because that's how the world works? Guess what, in the real world ... like corporations where people have jobs ... there isn't this anywhere but self entitled assholes on the internet.
The Linux developers might think they live in a microcosm where acting like a childish asshole is commonplace. But it's important to realize this has NOTHING to do with pretty much anything else. That the internet is full of assholes doesn't mean in real corporations with real people with real jobs get away with acting like this.
Trash talk is NOT how things happen in the real world. And a bunch of self entitled idiots claiming acting like self entitled idiots is normal doesn't make it true.
The fact that there's no adult supervision and people keep believing they can act like out of control high school students is the problem here.
If you haven't already learned to interact with people in a civil manner, the get out of your mother's basement, and learn that shit like this will get you fired from a real job. Working on the Linux kernel is not free license to be a major asshole and a social halfwit.
So maybe the problem is the idiots who think this is a problem with women. Because you sure as hell wouldn't expect to get away with this in any corporate setting; not even a little bit.
Seriously, people, grow the hell up. You likely already have people enforcing some degree of civility on you, because pretty much no organization is going to put up with this shit.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
It's not even about being nice, necessarily. Why the fuck would you throw away the moral high ground without getting anything in return first?
There's a time for shouting, and there's times for civil discourse. Off the top of my head, things like life and death situations would qualify for heated responses. A mailing list for a kernel? Nothing but pure ego stroking.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Ah, yes, the MAD style of conflict resolution. They send one of your guys to the hospital, you send one of theirs to the morgue! That's the free software way!
When we hire people, we train them to separate the personal from the professional. We can never attack the personal but we can attack the professional as brutally as we want.
You simply have not been trained to tell the difference. Instead, what you have been trained is that the world is a female world and that there is no difference between the personal and professional.
That is simply, and factually, wrong.
Or you only hear about the more salacious bits of otherwise mundane developer communication.
Her own post says that they do need to be terse and blunt. As she said "I would prefer that the Linux kernel have more maintainers so that they wouldn’t have to be terse or blunt." they do not have the manpower to have the time to pussy foot around the whole PC nonsense.
It's about the same in startups you get a lot of things done because you dont worry about somebody feelings it's fsking work you get it done and done well, you mark the hacks that may come back and bite ya. Bigcorp is all about CYA and takes 10x the people to get the work often just as many actual workers and piles of people the manage them and or deal with the idiocy.
No sir I dont like it.
So in other words this SJW wasn't getting the respect that she demanded (instead of earned) and then when nobody immediately prostrated themselves before the idol of Feminism/SJW bullshit she threw a hissy fit like a little child and this is her attempt to be a typical vindictive *****.
Does that sum it up?
Professional behavior doesn't differ by gender. Even the words should be the same.
I never have to treat the women I work with differently because of their 'emotional state' or any gender issue.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Because if you want me to "act professional", I can tell you that I'm not interested. I'm sitting in my home office wearign a bathrobe. The same way I'm not going to start wearing ties, I'm *also* not going to buy into the fake politeness, the lying, the office politics and backstabbing, the passive aggressiveness, and the buzzwords. Because THAT is what "acting professionally" results in: people resort to all kinds of really nasty things because they are forced to act out their normal urges in unnatural ways.
Sometimes it's not entirely clear which side is doing the bullying.
Those engaging in very harsh, perhaps aggressive, discussion and criticism within a challenging and highly technical project? Or those trying to force change upon a community/organisation with public shaming and social media activism?
So she's a social justice warrior troll doing this for attention? Called it earlier.
Expect her to have a Patreon account up within a few days, as well as a campaign started explaining why Linus is problematic and needs to be removed from Linux development soon, or how Linux needs a safe space special interest group so feminist coders can submit their commits without being threatened by people pointing out their code sucks. Because remember kids, criticism is "Cyber Violence."
As an aside, she's a blockbot user, so yes, she most definitely is a SJW or a SJW ally:
https://twitter.com/sarahsharp
(If you're blocked and have never even spoken with her, congratulations, you're a member of Randy Harper's blacklist, an list of white men, gamers, nerds, conservatives, KFC, President Obama, and other people Randy Harper and her radical feminist friends consider too "problematic" to be allowed to communicate with people in the tech industry.)
Actually... Yuuuup, 5 seconds of research later:
http://sarah.thesharps.us/tag/...
Third Wave (Professional Victim) Feminist, with posts pushing the lie about the gender gap (there are more women than men getting STEM degrees now), and a post about the "Donglegate" lynch mob, wherein a professional outrage mob was directed by professional victim and gender identity con artist Adria Richards to shame and destroy the lives of two men making a joke about forking and dongles, suggesting that hearing a joke you disagree with is equivalent to being physically attacked.
In short: She might be a gifted programmer, but she's a weak willed human being, and her having a professional freakout about Linus making a joke about being intimidating isn't surprising -- it's a calculated maneuver. Expect something else to come up soon -- as mentioned, Linus will be deemed too problematic to be allowed to remain in Linux, or the Professional Victims will demand special treatment for Women in Linux Development.
No they don't. Feminism presents it as a battle between male space or a female space. It's a false dichotomy. The hypocrisy is that feminists expect men to take the 'chivalrous' route and modify their interaction styles for women, yet asking women to reciprocate with some toughness and objectivity is 'oppressive' or 'misogynistic.' The net result is that men are driven out of areas where women have gotten their PC 'safe spaces' for their interaction and thinking styles because men do not do well there. Just ask a male nurse. Fighting discrimination with discrimination is not a solution.
I'm a fan of what works for a given environment and given group of people. The individuals making up the bulk of the effort are the ones who decide the culture simply because they are the most productive. Anything else would drive these productive individuals out and weaken the result. Linus and his lieutenants are far more productive than sarah sharp is, and she is not happy with the interaction style they set, so she goes. No big loss. She's welcome to either adapt to that or work on a different project. If her viewpoint is truly superior and her politics in line with reality, it should be a no brainer to fork the kernel and demonstrate this. The best contributors would flock to her and, in time, her branch would be the technically superior one. She should be showing us 'misogynists' how it's done instead of whining and stirring up shitstorms.
Feminism (and the social justice crowd in general) hate the idea of judging on merit and performance.
Some random quick google searches. Note how they contort the language and definitions..
http://mediadiversified.org/20...
http://geekfeminism.org/2009/1...
This has also infected academia. It's no surprise a lot of people with sarah sharp's attitudes have come out of the university system.
http://www.ucop.edu/academic-p...
1. Locate or Create a Violation of the Narrative.
2. Point and Shriek.
3. Isolate and Swarm.
4. Reject and Transform.
5. Press for Surrender.
6. Appeal to Amenable Authority.
7. Show Trial.
8. Victory Parade.
SJWs are cowards. Even the slightest resistance early on is usually enough to stop the process. In this case, step 3 didn't materialize, so she's stuck repeating step 2.
Fortunately, Linus seems to be a natural. He values results over pretty much all else, and his results are currently running just about all meaningful computation and communication on and in the vicinity of this planet, so threats to withdraw approval don't mean shit to him.
See that "Preview" button?
And a lot of men, myself included are put off by the sort of hostile work environment PC nazis create, where you have to say bullshit like "this is less than ideal." rather than "this is garbage." or "the fuck is this." to avoid offending people. It's especially bad when you're on the receiving end of this new PC form of disapproval, because many times you can't even tell if someone is praising or admonishing you, and you end up feeling like you're doing a shit job even when your boss is telling you everything is ok; and sometimes you are.
I'd rather be told, "jee what you've done is fucking bad." than say "well, we'll have to rethink this approach." and I'm left wondering, wtf does he/she mean by this? This hasn't happened to me, but getting fired after six months of never being told you've fucked up or done anything wrong must be brutal.
Now, I get there is some wiggle room, and you can be just as expressive and direct without resorting to swearing or simile, like instead of saying "this software is fucking garbage", saying "this software is bad, wrong and unfit for purpose." but you need to be direct and confrontational so that people know where they stand, rather than pretending to be polite when they are 5 minutes from being fired.
But you don't have to be a douchebag to get your message across tersely and efficiently.
Replace the italicized part with "unprofessional" to see what we can do differently to avoid problems.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
There is a place for profanity laced arguments. There are times when the cluebat need to be applied. They should be the exception and preferably done in private. The problem comes when every discussion quickly devolves into name calling and profanity. It has the following effects;
1. Less discussion as people drop out as vitriol ensues.
2. Fewer participants as people never come back.
3. Distraction from the real subject. It becomes an insult contest rather than a discussion.
4. Fewer discussions as many don't want to start arguments.
In the end it created smaller communities and worse code. Just because you can bully someone into agreeing does not make you right; just a more effective bully.
Just because a woman has brought it up does not make it a gender issue. In the end this is not a man or woman issue it is a civility issue.
To all those who say "women should get thicker skins and not take things personally" I say "certain men should stop equating being right with their worth/masculinity or go back to the cave where they belong".
Yes, because hormones, primary and secondary sexual characteristics, differences in nutrition, intuition, metabolism, ways of thinking, reflexes, strength, flexibility, personal dress, perception of customers and co-workers and workers lower and higher on the totem pole and the product and process(es) at hand, all personal interests that impact business thinking, not to mention (he mentioned) instinct and the male-female polarization evolution has so diligently implanted in healthy human beings, completely disappear (by magic, obviously) when one is a professional. Oh wait, I meant, "when one has been knocked out by a severe impact to the skull." And by "magic", I meant "brain function has been suspended." And by "professional", I mean SJW. Or "moron." No, actually both.
Wow, that was fun. :)
Takeaway: Of course women should be treated differently than men. Because, you know, they're... different. I'm so sorry you haven't noticed that yet. Take my word for it, though. Those differences can be valuable to everyone, if we stop this absurd pretense that we're all square pegs made from the same Styrofoam. Not that there's much chance of that happening.
I have zero problem with a woman who has/earns more money than me, who is smarter than me, who wants to dress and act as a guy or like a classic pinup, etc. Nor do I have a problem being polite to them, respecting the boundaries they set, if they do that, including them in my verbal horseplay (or not) to whatever degree they seem to be comfortable with, for whatever reason that may be. Same thing for the fellows. And I don't give the south end of a northbound rat what someone's sexual preferences are, or what they say, relate, or joke about, sexually speaking, until/unless I am sexually involved with them myself. What I have a problem with is people like you, who try to pretend that we're all the same. We're not. Not only are men not the same as women, men are not the same as other men, and women are not the same as other women. Any drive to present the situation as otherwise is an act of pure disruptive idiocy of real benefit only to lawyers. Should we all respect each other and try to work together smoothly and productively and for everyone's best outcome? Sure. Of course. Should we pretend we're all the same and create cookie-cutter uniform behavior to match? No. Fuck no.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
You don't even have to win the fight, you just have to hurt them, and they will leave you alone in the future.
I knew a girl who was bullied by some other girls in school. One day she fought back, and landed a good punch. Two days later she was gone because they ganged up on her, set her hair on fire and burned her with cigarettes. Her parents drove her to another school after that.
bullies are usually cowards.
Except when they're not cowards, outweigh you, and have a lot of friends. This is not uncommon.
I know more than a few guys who were bullied. Some fought back, sometimes it worked. As often as not though, it didn't help one iota, and if anything just made it worse.
The football quarterback prom king dating the lead cheerleader who throws the best parties? Half the school worships him, including the teachers? He can be a bully too. I wouldn't count on the idea that landing a couple good punches on him is going to make life better for his victim.
Would this be news if it were Samuel Sharp posting this and quitting?
... the leaders of the community are prioritising the "need" for people to express themselves aggressively over other people's potential need for respectful and sensitive communication.
Yup, that's right. It's their communication style and it has worked well for them for years. If people with 'sensitive needs' want to participate, they should have to toughen up, or fork the code and show those mean bastards the superiority of 'sensitive' interaction styles. Sharp has no right to impose her expectations on them. They've made it clear they don't respect whiners who can't handle harsh criticism for mistakes, and what does she do? Whine. What a joke.
It's all very well to say that people need to learn not to take things personally, but the fact is that you can't possibly know - especially not over a mailing list - just what emotional or personal issues a person might be going through. Do you really a want a situation where curious and potentially talented developers are put off contributing to an important project because of a toxic culture?
It doesn't matter how talented the person is if those emotional problems prevent rational acceptance of criticism, especially if the person is now in a critical role. Linus gets a lot of flack for his bluntness, but he really only lets loose when someone in such a role fucks up big time. One individual's (or group's) toxic culture is another's productive environment. The only way to change the culture is to compete and outpace it with superior productivity. In the case of the kernel, she should fork it and start her own team to show linus and friends how it's done.
And yet she's perfectly willing to mock, abuse, and deride people on her own turf where she's the one in charge. This is just another case of hypocrisy from top to bottom. She wants to be an "equal" but she also wants everyone to bend over backwards to accomodate her and treat her gently. She talks about things being "toxic" but is toxic herself to anyone she disagrees with... when she's the one holding all the cards.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Given that FreeBSD already has been neutered by a CoC due to similarly written complaints, this doesn't sound too different from a spurned SJW.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
This is an interesting conflict. A group of people find the LKML culture to be toxic to such an extent that they decide to stop participating in it. The question is: should the LKML culture change to accommodate them?
I don't see any easy answers. Many people agree that Casablanca was a great film. At the time it was being made, the people involved thought it was just another film. We don't know what magic ingredients caused that film to be great. There is no known recipe to reproduce that greatness.
The Intel culture has produced some fabulous things. It has been at the forefront of exponential growth in digital electronics for decades. But there are many things that culture is not good at creating. Operating systems that run on their hardware, for example. Likewise, Google bought Motorola Mobility in 2011 but ended up selling it at a loss three years later. The Google culture was really good at many things but making smartphones was not one of them.
The Linux kernel is unique and like the movie Casablanca we just don't know what combination of elements caused it to be so great. We have no recipe for making another OS like Linux. This is not from lack of trying. The question is: should we try to change the culture on LKML in order to make it appear less toxic to a group of people? Are the parts of the culture that seem toxic to some people part of the magic that has made Linux so successful? We just don't know.
If I was king of the world and everyone ultimately answered to me then I would let Linus decide if he wants to change the LKML or not. I don't think anyone knows why the LKML consistently make good kernels the same way Intel consistently makes good hardware. The person who knows it best is Linus. I would trust his gut instinct of what to do about changing the culture he has created. If I was forced to decide then I would tell him to keep doing what he has been doing because, for me, the quality of the kernel is far more important than a group of people finding the LKML culture toxic.
Of course there has to be a line drawn somewhere. For example if the LKML required ritual human sacrifices, that would be totally unacceptable. Any forms of physical violence would be unacceptable, even forms of hate speech would be unacceptable. For me, a group of people who can't work with the kernel because they find the environment toxic does not cross the line. If it was a large fraction of the developers then it would be a problem. If I saw instances that were particularly egregious then that would be a problem too.
There are many work environments that people would find much more toxic than the LKML. Commercial fishing is one obvious example. I think the vast majority of people (at least from the first world) would find working as a commercial fisherman to be toxic, intolerable, and probably impossible. This does not necessarily mean commercial fishing needs to change in order have a less toxic work environment. The obvious solution has already been implemented: if you don't want to be a commercial fisherman then don't be one.
Perhaps the same obvious solution has been found here was well. I think it is good that this issue is brought up every now and then. It gives Linus a chance to see if he thinks the LKML culture needs to change. But I don't see any reason for the LKML to be all inclusive. I think it would be fine if it were a mostly all whiteboys club (I don't know if it is) as long as there is no discrimination based on gender or race instead of actions. If it works and you don't know how or why it works then don't fix it.
We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
-- Anais Nin
You're making crude generalizations on the basis of gender. I dare say that borderline bullying isn't a healthy environment for a lot of men or women; it's immature and unprofessional and, as Sarah Sharp eloquently points out in her post, by tolerating such a culture the leaders of the community in question are prioritising the "need" for people to express themselves aggressively over other people's potential need for respectful and sensitive communication. It's all very well to say that people need to learn not to take things personally, but the fact is that you can't possibly know - especially not over a mailing list - just what emotional or personal issues a person might be going through. Do you really a want a situation where curious and potentially talented developers are put off contributing to an important project because of a toxic culture?
What struck me about what she was trying to do, and I've seen others try to do the same thing, is to equate some comment or comments on a mailing list, or other post, as "violence". When I grew up we learned that "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me." That is, they're just words, they are not fists or knives or guns. It's not "violence" to berate someone or use colorful language or anything else. It may "offend" you, but taking offense at something someone says is entirely subjective, and impossible to enforce, because you end up with "speech codes", banning words, and other asinine restrictions until everything is a euphemism or metaphor until no one knows what anyone is talking about any more.
Bullying used to mean you're getting physically intimidated, punched, kicked, assaulted or robbed regularly. Now it seems it's enough that someone said something that hurt your feelings. And people can get their feelings hurt by things that are totally NOT intended that way by the speaker, just because of the listener's history or viewpoint.
Equating speech to physical violence is a very dangerous trend that will not end well.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
Both perspectives are equally important, so the side that complains the most needs to grow up.
That's exactly what Linus *doesn't* want. "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is all about manipulating people, stroking their ego and trying to act in a way so that they like you.
So that they like you? Wrong, it's about being able to identify what you need to say and do to a particular person in order to get that person what you need or want them to do. In other words, management, influence (it's right there in the title!). It's about how to effectively lead a group of people that each have their own personal needs. You identify the needs they have, what motivates or de-motivates them, and apply that to get them to effectively do their job as part of the team. It's exactly what being a manager or team leader is all about. In practice the bad managers are the ones who don't understand how to do that. There is a very good argument to be made that Linus is a very bad manager.
For example, I'm a developer and I have zero interest in getting involved with the Linux kernel specifically because I don't want to be yelled at while I'm learning the thing. I have other things I could be doing than getting yelled at while I'm trying to learn something. I studied the architecture of it in college (we had an entire class specifically on the kernel code), and I was interested to see how it worked and how they chose to solve various problems, but I have no interest in trying to actually engage with the people who would sooner tear me down than answer my questions or point me in the right direction.
It's not a work environment I want any part of, so Linus is free to refuse to do anything based on being able to work in his bathrobe from home, but in the end he's only going to attract the kind of people who want to work in their bathrobe from home. I'm not one of those people, shit I don't even own a bathrobe. It's like the women I know who have trouble finding a good guy, and decide to dress like a whore (I say this with the utmost respect for these women, it's a term they freely and jokingly use to describe their own outfits) and go hang out in bars. If that's how they dress and that's where they hang out, then they're only going to attract a guy looking for those qualities (which, incidentally, is not the kind of guy they really want). The same goes for Linus, he's only going to attract the kind of people who think that sitting in a bathrobe at home yelling at people is just the thing for them. That's great, but there are a lot of us who want more from our relationships, and Sarah Sharp, like my single female friends, is apparently one of those people.
The same way I'm not going to start wearing ties, I'm *also* not going to buy into the fake politeness, the lying, the office politics and backstabbing, the passive aggressiveness, and the buzzwords. Because THAT is what "acting professionally" results in: people resort to all kinds of really nasty things because they are forced to act out their normal urges in unnatural ways.
I'm split on whether Linus' logical fallacy is the slippery slope, or black and white. Apparently he thinks that putting on a tie and not calling co-workers names will always lead to what he's describing. The fact is that a lot of people manage to treat their co-workers with respect without resorting to lying, backstabbing, and passive-aggressive behavior. Linux is only saying that he's incapable of doing that. It's his failure personally, not a failure of being professional.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
There is others places debating very technical question without using brutality, for example Stackoverflow.
Can't take it? Go! -- No problem.
That's what she did. Linux lost a (presumably) talented coder because of inept management practices. A good manager knows his team and engages each person in a way that enables them to be most productive.
This in turn enables the team to be most successful.
Is Linux successful? Debatable. It has success in limited uses, but has never grown beyond these uses. It is a feature, not a product. Linus accomplished a lot, but what groundbreaking thing has he done in the last 20 years?
The whole point in having friends is that they are around for you regularly. You beat up a bully, and instead of just the bully regularly attacking you, you have the bully and/or all their friends regularly attacking you. In a hierarchical environment, you even have unrelated people now against you for trying to beat the system and not just taking your beating. If striking back actually stopped you from being bullied, you were exceptionally luck - but you say you were picked on by "a lot of people" and your method perhaps stopped two specific people, so it sounds like your approach did not work.
I went to a boarding school a few decades ago. Bullies with well-connected parents and not on any sort of scholarship were untouchable. I recall one bully being tied to a radiator and beaten unconscious by several of his victims in unison. Most of those vigilantes were expelled. The problem was the school for not dealing with many of the bullies even when they knew exactly what was going on and knew that victims had no escape.
Bullies exist as long as those with the greater power tolerate the bullies. That's always how it works, whether on the playground or in the workplace. The stereotype of the weak bully who only picks on those who won't fight back is feel-good nonsense and applies to a small proportion of the world's assholes. The effective bullies will pin you down and choke you, metaphorically or literally, for daring to assert yourself. They have dealt with uppity little shits like you a hundred times before.
Great point. Now, in a community as diverse as the whole world, where there is all possible perceptions, exactly how do you plan on defining "professional", oh wise one? Frankly, the kernel got along just fine before Sara, and it will get along just fine without her. Her belief that everyone is going to look at who posted a particular post, try to figure out what her particular emotional needs might be, and adjust their communication style accordingly is fuckwad level arrogant. By her own admission nobody is singling her out for special treatment. It seems that is what is really bothering her. I'm sure she is a fine woman. That being said, I'm sure she'll find a FOSS project that suits her emotional needs, but expecting the LKML to change to suit her is indeed, over the top fuckwad level arrogance.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
I agree.
Shara himself wrote that the same people act nicely in person. It's the most interesting point: why someone can be nice with someone else in person and brutal with the same person on a open mailing list ? It inconsistent and probably a sign of immaturity.
Terse, yes. Contains the word "fuckwad", no. Personal insults are neither professional nor efficient.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Yes, contributions will correlate with aggressiveness more than skill or ability. The code and quality will suffer, and eventually be extinguished.
Learn to love Alaska
The stories I hear leave me scratching my head. This isn't the Linus I knew back in the day. I guess all the fame and all of that must have gone to his head.
Or perhaps the job of dealing with people that you didn't hired and you can't fire is getting on his nerves.
Linus don't control strictly his workforce, he must deal with people hired by others - something as a matrix organizational structure. All he can do is to accept or reject the commits, and this is something merely reactive, not pro-active. And it's always expensive, if not in money, in effort and time.
Being stuck with a not so cooperative coworker that you don't control is enerving. I'm currently switching jobs for this exact reason: *ONE* coworker that I can't fire was cooperating less than I needed, but I still had full responsibility on the results.
I can't just imagine what it would be with thousands.
Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
Professional behavior doesn't differ by gender. Even the words should be the same.
I never have to treat the women I work with differently because of their 'emotional state' or any gender issue.
I suggest that this is true because you instinctively treat people well and act in a professional manner. You may in fact be treating men and women differently without thinking that you are.
But the point is not that it's a problem, but that it's right. You're treating people as they would like to be treated. You're being considerate. You're keeping things on a professional, respectful plane.
If everyone did that, on both "sides" (as if there should even be "sides"), there would be few issues. And more productive work would definitely get done because the workplace would present a desirable environment conducive to doing work instead of having the destructive distraction of dealing with problem people.
To quote Linus about "professional"
Because if you want me to 'act professional,' I can tell you that I'm not interested. I'm sitting in my home office wearing a bathrobe. The same way I'm not going to start wearing ties, I'm *also* not going to buy into the fake politeness, the lying, the office politics and backstabbing, the passive aggressiveness, and the buzzwords. Because THAT is what 'acting professionally' results in: people resort to all kinds of really nasty things because they are forced to act out their normal urges in unnatural ways.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Is Linux successful? Debatable. It has success in limited uses,
These limited uses being "pretty much everything outside the desktop".
Servers, embed, high performance computing clusters, smartphones, robots, home appliances, etc.
And new uses still pop up on a regular basis.
Hardly a niche.
Though you probably are proud of explicitely using a non-Linux OS on your computer (Mac OS X ? Windows ?), fact is that you probably interact with a dozen of Linux powered device each day without noticing.
Linus accomplished a lot, but what groundbreaking thing has he done in the last 20 years?
Yeah, the guy has done nothing more that the Linux kernel in he's life. He's a one trick poney.
It's not like he would be ablto to do anything else like starting a distributed source control management (DSCM) that in practice almost replace any other SCM.
Oh, wait...
Without Linus to create Git, you probably wouldn't have had communities like GitHub emerge nowadays (or they would have tried to built on much less optimal technology. Github is born out of the specific feature that with git, forks/merges/rebases are cheap - a specific feature that Linus needed to build in order to be able to use git for the kernel work).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Is Linux successful? Debatable. It has success in limited uses, but has never grown beyond these uses. It is a feature, not a product. Linus accomplished a lot, but what groundbreaking thing has he done in the last 20 years?
None of which has much to do with the kernel. I doubt there's a single feature you can point to and say "because the kernel is missing/mis-implemented this, people will not adopt linux". The lack of adoption of linux in userspace, if it is due to any technical reason at all, is to do with problems in the userspace tools.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
So it's political correctness gone awry merely because you can't say "this is garbage" or "the fuck is this"? Holy crap you are one messed up AC. This isn't political correctness, this is basic interpersonal interaction developed over thousands of years. If you need to get along with someone and work as a team, you can not bully them or insult them or it will end badly. When you are at work it is no longer about YOU, it is about your coworkers, your company, getting the work done, etc.
Just practice this. Say "this looks like a bug" instead of saying "this looks like shit". It gets to the point of it being about solving the problem instead of it being a power play. The only reason you want people to know where they stand is because you're treating the workplace as a competition to see who can come out on top as the alpha dog. Stop treating it like a competition and start cooperating. If you can't, then there are anger management classes you can sign up for before you are the one who gets fired.
I know plenty of geeks who are properly socialized and capable of normative human relations. If you are not one, perhaps you should become one.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Speak for yourself! Stop trying to validate your shortcomings by foisting them on all geeks. Plenty of geeks are not competitive, work well in teams, and are not rude. You being socially maladjusted does not mean we all are.
you are not a geek , you sir are an asshat.
technical skill doesnt allow you to be horrible to people, neither does other people being horrible to you .
being horrible to people makes you a horrible person.
you allways have a choice how you deal with people , so be nice and you meet nice people and will become a nice person
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She was waiting for the chance to jump in and start agitating - which then turns into demands for codes of conduct, and then into the usual attempt to takeover the organisation by the activist set.
It didn't work. Linus wasn't being bullied into a corner by an SJW. So she's given up and left.
Good.
The chorus of "This is what you've created Linus. You monster." is pathetic. Linux is THE most successful collaborative development project EVER.
It doesn't need activists making work for other activists, who in turn make work for useless people to grab control through HR.
I don't, and by the time the thickness of anyone's skin becomes a relevant factor you're already way out of line. It's not the geekiness that's toxic, it's the person. And oftentimes, a little bit of petty power is all it takes to coax someone's inner shithead to come out for all to see. Some will defend that shithead, saying petty power justifies abuse, and some will make excuses citing the shithead's special snowflakiness and torments of a genius mere mortals can't even imagine. And some will simply walk away from the smell of shit.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.