Fullstack Launches Coding School For Women (sdtimes.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Fullstack is tackling technology's diversity problem in its latest venture. The coding schooling has announced a new coding school dedicated to women. Named after computer science pioneer Grace Hopper, the Grace Hopper academy aims to provide women with high-quality coding education, and won't ask for tuition until the student finds a job post-graduation. "Technology has become intrinsic in our daily routines, regardless of gender, but the tech industry remains exceedingly male-dominated," said David Yang, cofounder of Fullstack Academy. "We have always been inspired by innovation and it seems peculiar that an industry revolutionized by a pioneer like Grace Hopper would remain so divided along gender lines."

Comments

Nothing is stopping women

[Anonymous Coward]

It's make dominated because males are more interested in the introverted nature of coding. An all-woman school doesn't solve that problem. Women have to want to code, has nothing to do with the culture.

Re:Nothing is stopping women

[Time_Ngler]

ant, gradle and maven are hardly designed for women, either. Stop picking on make!

Re: Nothing is stopping women

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't speak for women as a straight white male. Check your privilege.

Straight black males get to speak for women? How about gay white men?

Re: Nothing is stopping women

[Anonymous Coward]

The gay white men are too busy thinking about straight black males.

Re: Nothing is stopping women

[Anonymous Coward]

In literature, sure. But in technically writing? Not even close.

Women may be (on the whole) more creative, but men are (on the whole) more logical.

Re: Nothing is stopping women

[sjwt]

Since we allowed the feminists and SJW to preach about how male centered and female unfriendly STEM is, the rates of females entering has lowered.

Stop telling women the industry hates them, stop telling them even if they succeed in university they won't get a job and just maybe we will reach the lovely higher levels of women in computers taht we had back in the highly egalitarian and social wonderlander that was the 1960's

Re:Nothing is stopping women

[sjwt]

Is this like how for years women have preached how hard it is to get a job in STEM, when infact they pretty much breezed into work straight past all their male counterparts?

Remindes me of a mates wife, she spent a whole 3 weeks unemployed and was devastated in 10 job applications she only got 2 interviews, and was ready to GIVE UP due the how hard the job market was, on the flip side, I had held 2 jobs for 15 years, 7 years kitchen hand out of school in the recession, and 8 year in warehousing, in the warehouse job I made warehouse manger in 3 and half years.

I spent 2 years unemployed, couldn't get a job in hospitality, warehousing or management, 20+ applications a week, with real effort put into them, hell I even sought help with my applications and resumes only to be told "I cant believe you didn't even get a call back" from companies specializing in resumes.

We hear about how 7 publishers turned down harry potter, no one talks about how plenty of men send out stories to literally *every* publisher only to get all of them turned down but the last one.

There are really good female Authors out there, and they did the hard yards to get their place, just like most of the men, they didn't wake up one day and try to jump in head first, a lot of contemporary writers male and female have worked years, from the ground up, slaving at short stories, getting a name and a fan base to be able to find someone willing to risk the money to publish a book.

Anne McCaffrey is my second favorite Author, and the author of my two most loved books, she has been published since the NIGHTING FIFTIES under her female name, no need to hide it, no need to care, and if you think that today's world is a boys club, then imagine science fiction back then.

Re:Nothing is stopping women

[AmiMoJo]

If your hypothesis is correct this school will be a huge failure and struggle to get students. Let's see what happens.

Re:Nothing is stopping women

[jblues]

When I was a kid my Dad would bring home an Apple IIe in the school holidays. My sister and I loved playing on that thing together. Then around about the age of 12, transitioning from a child-hood self image into the teenage years, my sister didn't want to play on it any more. I have no idea if that was because of the influence of other girls & women or men & boys are just inherent nature.

Re: Nothing is stopping women

[Anonymous Coward]

The sexism that is rampant in this industry (and you can't deny that) is an extra hurdle for women.

BULLSHIT. These days if you so much as look at a female coworker the wrong way (in her mind) you can get hauled before HR and given the 3rd degree, notes put in your HR file, reprimands, warnings, etc etc etc.

I've seen a male coworker written up for having a vacation pic of he and his wife on his desk; the fat SJW cows in his office took offense to it and complained. It wasn't anything remotely racy, just he and his wife on a beach somewhere, mugging for the camera. And it was enough to get him written up.

Don't give me this "womyn are SO oppressed in the workplace boo hoo" crap, it's not true at ANY place I've worked in the last 20 years.

Re: Nothing is stopping women

[dcollins]

Or: There was an intentional push by right-wing technologists to keep women out of the dot-com boom.

"PayPal had a hard time hiring women, Max Levchin, another co-founder, later told a class at Stanford, 'because PayPal was just a bunch of nerds! They never talked to women. So how were they supposed to interact with and hire them?... The notion that diversity in an early team is important or good is completely wrong,' he added. 'The more diverse the early group, the harder it is for people to find common ground.'"

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/23/us/gender-gaps-stanford-94.html

Re: Nothing is stopping women

[Anonymous Coward]

You're lousy even at sarcasm.

Re:Nothing is stopping women

[Mashiki]

It'll be a huge failure. Sweden, Denmark, and Norway have already proven that with the "women only" technology related schools including programming only schools and classes.

Re: Nothing is stopping women

[KGIII]

That sounds reasonable to me. I think that, to get some meaningful date, why not have an all male's school as well? I think such would be required if we're going to actually get any meaningful data. That whole thing about experimentation and scientific method is a good idea, no?

Re:Nothing is stopping women

[Mashiki]

Well that's easy, because they believe segregation is the right way to do things. There isn't much of a difference between the racial segregationists of the 50's and 60's and today's sexual segregationists, some of the talking points are almost identical. Which of course makes it easy to figure out who the extremists really are.

Re:Nothing is stopping women

[KGIII]

I kind of expect that to be true, but I'm hoping for their logical response. I'm curious as to how they'd respond if the company had a class exclusively for men.

Re:Nothing is stopping women

[KGIII]

Now now... We can only presume. So far, I've asked (more than once and in a variety of ways) and not yet had an answer. I know they get reply notifications so it must be deliberate. I've got enough capital to actually start something along those lines and find out for myself but I really can't be stuffed nor do I want to deal with the *likely* fallout. Also, it'd be a waste of money. My suspicion is that I'd get a dishonest answer. "Oh, I'd be fine with that." No, no they wouldn't. Well, again, that's presumptive.

Me? I'm a fan of egalitarianism and that meant I sometimes hired women because they were, indeed, better than other applicants and I paid them the same as I'd have paid anyone else who filled the role. And it was successful and lucrative. I'm not sure why we should give preferential treatment to anyone for any reason other than skill.

My business is long since sold but, you know, if I bumped into someone who was so good (regardless of gender) then I might just hire them to keep them on standby in case I got some sort of idea - I've some folks I know who'd hold 'em and keep them busy until I needed them. Heh... Maybe I should start poaching from /. or something. Then I can get a bunch of geeks together and start a recently discussed business - Graybeards Incorporated.

But that's a topic from another thread and is for another time. I've digressed enough.

Re: Nothing is stopping women

[epyT-R]

Discrimination and segregation are discrimination and segregation no matter which direction they're employed.

Again?!

[Citizen of Earth]

Haven't we had enough of this SJW crap for the month?

Re:Again?!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure this is really social justice. Imagine if there were schools just for african-americans. This is more like segregation.

Re:Again?!

[Dutch Gun]

While I agree that posting this stuff on Slashdot time and time again is damn near trolling (maybe we should be able to moderate the summary?), I don't see why anyone should have a problem with this. I think it's fine if some people wish to set up women-only schools. It's not like there aren't a million other options for male students. There are probably some women who would feel more comfortable going to school in an all-female environment, especially given the likely male/female ratios in programming classes.

Of course, one question I have is, how will they react to jumping into an environment with 90% or more men straight from all-female classes? My fear is it could cause a bit of culture shock - sort of like an adult who has never built up an immunity as a child gets hit rather hard by typical childhood diseases. Damn, I just compared men to diseases. You know what I mean, though.

Anyhow, more power to them. I'd personally love to see more female programmers, but only if it's what they want to do, and if they get the jobs because they're qualified, not because of any particular internal plumbing. My fear is that if this program bombs due to lack of participation, some people will still manage to point an accusing finger at the industry and say "See? Your workplaces are so poisonous that women don't even want to take a chance on a computer science degree!" I'm a little tired of being collectively accused of misogyny when I've never seen female programmers I've worked with treated any differently than anyone else.

Re:Again?!

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

This is what "social justice" has always been about: segregation, discrimination, and eugenics were key policies of the progressive movement a century ago, and in modified form, they are still today. The reason is that progressives deep down believe that women and blacks are inferior and weak, and hence require government assistance in order to achieve equal outcomes.

Yknow what else is male dominated?

[Shadow of Eternity]

Homelessness, suicide, prison, and all of the worst and most dangerous jobs.

Yknow what isn't male dominated?

Education, start to finish and top to bottom. Nearly 2/3rds of college graduates are women and women dominate virtually every single aspect of the education system from pre-K through college.

Re:Yknow what else is male dominated?

[ArmoredDragon]

Grade school teacher seems more like a caretaking job, along with nurse, secretary, therapist, flight attendant....you'd almost swear their minds are wired more towards those roles...

Re:Yknow what else is male dominated?

[Anonymous Coward]

... suicide....

On second thought, there's some merit to the comparison. I've done all four of the above.

So does that make you a ghost writer?

Re:Yknow what else is male dominated?

[bluescrn]

This woman set up one of the first womens shelters, and founded the charity now known as 'Refuge': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

She set out to help female victims of domestic violence, and her work basically turned her into an MRA. She suggested, based on her experiences, that women are equally capable of violence as men - and ended up on the recieving end of death threats... from feminists!

She's now involved with probably the most vocal and controversial men's rights group out there - 'A Voice for Men'

Not exactly your stereotypical neckbeard misogynist keyboard warrior, is she?

Re:Yknow what else is male dominated?

[Anonymous Coward]

... training to get men out of those dangerous jobs into better ones? ...

So who's going to do the work then? Unless you're advocating we send women into jobs laden with grime, long hours and a real risk of sudden death? I'm looking forward to that equality but I won't hold my breath

... suicide prevention schemes ...

A suicide-prevention program for men was set-up in my country. 2 years later it became a unisex program even though the 80% of victims are male. A homeless assistance program was set-up, and it spoke of the benefit to women (in gender-neutral language), when once again, most people living under a bridge are male. A male-only problem like testicular cancer, which has a mortality rate equal to breast cancer, still gets a PSA campaign once every 15 years.

... feminists trying to make the world a better place ...

You really think the loudest feminists are trying to make the world a better place? The loudest feminists are demanding socialism with panties, that excludes half the population. What those MRAs are complaining about, is the lies loud feminists tell to justify their victim status. Or the MRA is emphasizing the double standard of the violent feminists claiming their self-importance justifies any means. Little surprise 68% of women don't want to "feminists". Some of those women are mothers now seeing their own sons being harassed by the education system.

Re:Yknow what else is male dominated?

[sjwt]

Plenty of MRA work hard at education and trying to get support for these things, but then feminists come along and bomb threat them or try and push the organisations out of existence. KSU Men for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Feminists have known since the *very* first shelter for battered women opened that those women in violent relationships were basically split 25/50/25 in the ranges of Genuine Abused victims/Co abusives as bad as their partners/True aggressive females.

And what did the feminists do the their own feminists who build the first shelter, the one who started to talk about how bad domestic violence is? They issued death threats against her because she wanted to open homes for men, they killed her pet dog and they drove her out of the country in fear for her life.

Erin Pizzey speaking about it all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

When men account for one third of the deaths due to domestic violence, but only about 100th of the media coverage, when mothers murder there own children at the same rate that fathers do, but fathers are treated as murderers and mothers as victims then it gets really hard to push for funding, when State level government departments say that men accounting for at least 1/3rd of victims is "an insignificant statics that does not need to be addressed" you start to understand how biased the "patriarchy" is against men.

Women are as bad as men, and a hell of a lot better at organising mobs to do their dirty work.

\

Re:Yknow what else is male dominated?

[sjwt]

You remember gamergate, where a small handful of fake accounts that managed to be screenshot by feminist seconds after posting apparently meant a whole movement of men and women where misogynistic.

Here is a nice list of leading and major feminists saying batshit crazy things, right up to the level of Hillary Clinton.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

"Why on earth do people like you keep bringing this up like it's some great revelation. It's trivially obvious."
Yes its trivially obvious, yet almost all of DV protection efforts are only aimed at men as aggressors, with DV most often shown to be a cycle learned from the parents you might then see why a one sided approach of telling men to man up and take a beating wont fix anything.

Re:Yknow what else is male dominated?

[Anonymous Coward]

And now you're trolling.

You've already been informed how Earl Silverman attempted the first all male shelter for domestic violence in Canada, and feminist petitioned the government to deny them equal standing with regards to state funding. It ended in his suicide.

And of course there is all the attempts to set up men centers on collage campuses that get opposed by feminist, some times violently.

And just getting a group togetherr to speak on male issues ends in scenes like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bvOxsnvSXs

And you have the temerity to suggest MRAs aren't attempting to help themselves? It would be far easier without the constant interference by feminist.

And as far as suicide prevention schemes, look no further than:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/20/us/marine-battalion-veterans-scarred-by-suicides-turn-to-one-another-for-help.html?_r=0

Now shut the fuck up.

Re:Yknow what else is male dominated?

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem to be bringing this up like I don't already know. Hence my questions. Given the number and volume of MRAs where are these places to help men? Men certainly need them, but the so-called activists aren't actually doing anything active like putting in the hours to help.

Men don't have the assistance that women do to form these organizations and provide these services. They push for it and are labeled as sexists, woman-haters, violent, racist, and so on. There are men, for example, who have been fighting to get organizations on campus to help with mens' issues (like depression and suicide) as well as men's domestic violence shelters. They are pushed out of the discussion on campus when trying to do this. Labeled "sexist racist rapists" by the feminist organizations on campus and driven away. There are no male domestic violence shelters in canada and the government refuses to aid them in establishing anything when they seek assistance in doing so.

You're basically plugging your ears so you can't hear anyone and then saying "well, why didn't you say something?".

Re:Yknow what else is male dominated?

[_merlin]

But straight away you go and blame it on "toxic masculinity" - you're labelling men as the problem again. You're not interested in anything that would support men, only in demonising them.

Re:Yknow what else is male dominated?

[Shadow of Eternity]

Except we used to have plenty of male schoolteachers... until a certain group of people started raising such a moral panic about how men were all sexual predators that they were driven out.

Re:Yknow what else is male dominated?

[Shadow of Eternity]

Except, yknow, MRAs actually do try to start shelters, hold conferences, and help men but it's an uphill battle against bomb threats, death threats, and shootings committed by feminists who are dead set on stopping them... feminists protected by other feminists like you and amimojo who keep blindly defending feminism and attacking MRAs.

So the answer to your question of where those MRAs are is this: They're being silenced and terrorized by feminists.

Not Helping

[Anonymous Coward]

"We have always been inspired by innovation and it seems peculiar that an industry revolutionized by a pioneer like Grace Hopper would remain so divided along gender lines."

They say as they further divide the industry along gender lines. It's the new separate but equal.

Generally women don't want to code; get a new icon

[SensitiveMale]

Women generally don't want to code. That's why every SWJ brings up Grace Hopper as THE icon. Yeah, I know about the pic of the woman that coded the lunar landing and the code that's stacked taller than see is. So that's two.

Look people, most women don't want to code. It's ok. Nothing wrong with that. Stop forcing things because you think a 50/50 split is the only "fair" way.

Oh, and asking someone to pay afterwards only if she gets a job is a FANTASTIC economic plan.

Re:Most women...

[viperidaenz]

We get 4 weeks a year, plus 10 days of public holidays
It's mandated by employment law.

Perhaps you should move countries.

I wonder what would happen if..

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder what would happen if someone started a school specifically for men for a female dominated trade? For example hairdressing or nail painting?

How long would it take for someone to yell sexist at them and say that it is wrong and should not be allowed?

Double standards much?

Re:I wonder what would happen if..

[serviscope_minor]

It's amazing how people get so outraged at something that's never happened.

Re:I wonder what would happen if..

[Anonymous Coward]

Where do you get the idea that is something that has never happened?

When men form men-only institutions, they are forced to allow women in. When women form women-only institutions, men are told they can't participate, because they are dangerous. I may have the scouting organizations incorrect here, but not long ago, there was a girl who demanded to be part of the boy scouts and they were eventually forced to let her in.

Meanwhile, there was a boy who wanted to be in the girl scouts. He was refused on the basis that he was a risk to their "safe space".

So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we?

[mark-t]

For fuck's sake, you can't create gender equality out of thin air by just adding more gender segregation.... I mean, I get what they are trying to do... trying to "balance" the imbalance by adding more imbalance in what might superficially appear to be the opposite direction, but at the end of the day still amounts to people either being treated differently or feeling treated differently on account of some aspect of their person that should in actuality be entirely irrelevant to the subject at hand.

Whether a person is a man or woman should have absolutely no bearing on whether they are interested in computer programming or how competent at it they might be, and there should be absolutely no reason that a person's gender should *EVER* factor into what kind of computer science education options are available to them.

However idealistic the intentions might be behind this, I perceive that they are ultimately counterproductive to the long-term goal of gender equality.

Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we?

[Anonymous Coward]

No you'd don't create gender equality that way.

This isn't aimed at equality. None of these programs are.

And remember: all the shit jobs are occupied by men. "equality" is all about giving special hand ups for women into jobs that no-one has ever stopped them going into. Even women who are wealthy and privileged still claim to be victims - see the recent Hollywood whining.

Frankly it's long past due when men started exercising their democratic right and pulling their votes completely from any party that supports this nonsense. It's the only way it'll begin to put the brakes on it.

Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we?

[Anonymous Coward]

Solution to what? That implies there is a problem, but women not wanting programming jobs is not a problem, unless you desperately need more programmers so that you can pay them less. Women don't want to work in mines, on oil rigs or behind the wheel of a truck either. And that is not a problem either. You SJWs are not fighting for women. You are fighting against men and hurting women at the same time. You are creating hostility and segregation in our place of work. So FUCK OFF.

Grace Hopper | Code of Conduct

[theodp]

Grace Hopper | Code of Conduct: "The Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing Conference (GHC) believes our community should be truly open for everyone. As such, we are committed to providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all participants free from discrimination for any reason including on the basis of gender...."

Dumb

[kuzb]

Yes, what a fantastic idea. Let's educate women in a way which doesn't prepare them for diversity in the workplace. Lets coddle them and treat them like they're special. Like they're victims. This is a disservice to everyone, and does more harm than good.

Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher

[kuzb]

The only thing that is regressive and ugly going on here is the fat that dipshits like you are inventing problems where they do not exist. Women are more than welcome to write software. Any woman who manages to excel at writing software will be celebrated. This idea that we have to fucking raise people above us simply because of their gender is ludicrous and wrong.

Re:Generally women don't want to code; get a new i

[zmooc]

Funny how this is modded troll... Here's a great documentary for educating the moderator(s). Or anybody else; it really is a great documentary on the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

That could just be pay

[rsilvergun]

Teachers are paid like crap and treated worse. It's like how nerds view Game Programming. Every little girl wants to do it so the employees can be abused. It doesn't help that if you're a college bound kid fresh out of high school with no idea what to do in life it seems like a great idea. You cling to what you already know so you want to stay in school forever.

When I worked in call centers there were tons of elementary & junior high teachers (with degrees) looking for work. Many with years of experience. The math science teachers had a touch less trouble finding work, but the elementary were screwed. We've been cutting education since Reagan so it makes sense. The teachers I know who are doing well are all really house wives working part time for extra cash. And we all know how undergraduates are getting screwed. Basically if you need to make enough money to support a family then you're not going to be a teacher in America.

Going into tech? Stop!

[drinkypoo]

It doesn't matter if you have a penis or not, going into tech right now is a fool's game. They do their best to outsource all of those jobs. The only reason the industry wants women to get into tech is that they want more humans to get into tech to keep the supply high and the wages low.

Treating women like children?

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Seriously, stop treating women like special-needs children who are helpless and confused and in dire need of "adult" guidance.

This kind of thing (ostensibly done with the best of intentions) treats them as if they don't have the intelligence to make their own choices and decisions concerning their career path.

What these "women only" courses and programs are saying essentially is that women are too fragile or delicate or sensitive to survive in the usual job/school environment, which is kind of insulting if you think about it at all.

The vast majority of women I know are intelligent, capable people who would do just fine if special interest groups would just stop treating them like not-too-bright babies in a room full of sharp objects.

Re:Treating women like children?

[Shados]

And then if they go through "special" schools, they just get destroyed once they hit the real world, where things aren't so nice.

Then everyone is like "see see?! I told you women weren't as good!"

And you just made things worse.

Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher

[Dutch Gun]

That was a random comment via Twitter, wasn't it? I think everyone knows that the internet can be extremely toxic. People say all sorts of nasty shit when they're anonymous, especially regarding women. That's a real issue that we need to work on as a society, but I think it's a different issue than discrimination in the workplace.

To me, the important question is: does she feel discriminated against in any way at work because she's a woman? According to her tagline for the ad in question, she appeared to think her team was awesome and smart. That doesn't sound like someone fighting discrimination at work to me.

I'm not saying discrimination against women doesn't happen. I just don't believe that discrimination alone could explain the massive gender gap we see. Why would programmers be so much more institutionally sexist than other white-collar professions in which there's a closer gender balance (say, doctors)? It just doesn't make any sense to me.