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Fullstack Launches Coding School For Women (sdtimes.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Fullstack is tackling technology's diversity problem in its latest venture. The coding schooling has announced a new coding school dedicated to women. Named after computer science pioneer Grace Hopper, the Grace Hopper academy aims to provide women with high-quality coding education, and won't ask for tuition until the student finds a job post-graduation. "Technology has become intrinsic in our daily routines, regardless of gender, but the tech industry remains exceedingly male-dominated," said David Yang, cofounder of Fullstack Academy. "We have always been inspired by innovation and it seems peculiar that an industry revolutionized by a pioneer like Grace Hopper would remain so divided along gender lines."
It's make dominated because males are more interested in the introverted nature of coding. An all-woman school doesn't solve that problem. Women have to want to code, has nothing to do with the culture.
Haven't we had enough of this SJW crap for the month?
Homelessness, suicide, prison, and all of the worst and most dangerous jobs.
Yknow what isn't male dominated?
Education, start to finish and top to bottom. Nearly 2/3rds of college graduates are women and women dominate virtually every single aspect of the education system from pre-K through college.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
"We have always been inspired by innovation and it seems peculiar that an industry revolutionized by a pioneer like Grace Hopper would remain so divided along gender lines."
They say as they further divide the industry along gender lines. It's the new separate but equal.
Women generally don't want to code. That's why every SWJ brings up Grace Hopper as THE icon. Yeah, I know about the pic of the woman that coded the lunar landing and the code that's stacked taller than see is. So that's two.
Look people, most women don't want to code. It's ok. Nothing wrong with that. Stop forcing things because you think a 50/50 split is the only "fair" way.
Oh, and asking someone to pay afterwards only if she gets a job is a FANTASTIC economic plan.
We get 4 weeks a year, plus 10 days of public holidays
It's mandated by employment law.
Perhaps you should move countries.
I wonder what would happen if someone started a school specifically for men for a female dominated trade? For example hairdressing or nail painting?
How long would it take for someone to yell sexist at them and say that it is wrong and should not be allowed?
Double standards much?
You're probably right. I know we've had all of our female devs quit, and most of them gave not allowing vacation time as a reason.
My wife has quit every tech job she has ever had in the 22 years we've been married because of denied vacation time. While I haven't been able to go on a vacation yet with her and our boys, she always goes out of town for at least two weeks every summer. That is obviously incompatible with a tech job.
Being American is shit beyond belief for holidays. Even Chinese phone assembly line workers get (and take) more holidays.
For fuck's sake, you can't create gender equality out of thin air by just adding more gender segregation.... I mean, I get what they are trying to do... trying to "balance" the imbalance by adding more imbalance in what might superficially appear to be the opposite direction, but at the end of the day still amounts to people either being treated differently or feeling treated differently on account of some aspect of their person that should in actuality be entirely irrelevant to the subject at hand.
Whether a person is a man or woman should have absolutely no bearing on whether they are interested in computer programming or how competent at it they might be, and there should be absolutely no reason that a person's gender should *EVER* factor into what kind of computer science education options are available to them.
However idealistic the intentions might be behind this, I perceive that they are ultimately counterproductive to the long-term goal of gender equality.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
But no boys allowed!
Grace Hopper | Code of Conduct: "The Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing Conference (GHC) believes our community should be truly open for everyone. As such, we are committed to providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all participants free from discrimination for any reason including on the basis of gender...."
But that would mean giving up his freedom!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Yes and that reason is pay. You're an idiot if you think that teachers only work 180 days a year. When I was teaching it was at least a 40 hour a week job, between the planning, the grading and the actual lessons. And that's assuming that the school doesn't dump a load of crap on your desk to deal with.
Then there's the time spent maintaining your certification and keeping current on the research related to the job.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people just assume that tests write themselves and homework is graded by minions so that the teacher is able to do nothing outside of class time. For every 5 minutes of homework I assigned my class, there was at least an hour or two of work for me to do. Homework and tests alone make teaching at a high school a 40 hour a week job during the school year. And that doesn't include the time that's spent planning the classes.
Women dominate teaching because they were brought in to bring wages down to what the cheapskates running the schools wanted to pay. Teaching used to be a male dominated field and the more women have gotten into it, the worse the standards have gotten. Mainly because it's the same thing driving the men out that's driving the standards down; no funding.
Less than half the days of the year, and they still complain!
Yes, it has stopped being a family friendly, well paying job, and turned into two separate domains: A cookie cutter menial job with long work hours, little job security (no unions, remember?) and high stress for boring "coding" tasks on one hand, and on the other hand a well paying profession that demands lots of complex knowledge and experience and has long work hours and high stress as well, and you still make less than your MBA boss. "Coincidentally" the proportion in business degrees is different, isn't it?
Yes, what a fantastic idea. Let's educate women in a way which doesn't prepare them for diversity in the workplace. Lets coddle them and treat them like they're special. Like they're victims. This is a disservice to everyone, and does more harm than good.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
" Meanwhile, computers and computer languages were designed by large by men to be used by men."
Cars were mostly designed and built by men too - does this mean women shouldn't drive? Don't be such a complete idiot. Even if there was some difference between "languages for men" and "languages for women" - which there most certainly is not - you don't do someone a service by teaching them languages which don't lead to gainful employment. Eventually they will have to learn the languages the industry uses.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
The only thing that is regressive and ugly going on here is the fat that dipshits like you are inventing problems where they do not exist. Women are more than welcome to write software. Any woman who manages to excel at writing software will be celebrated. This idea that we have to fucking raise people above us simply because of their gender is ludicrous and wrong.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
There is an interesting quote in the NYTimes article which deftly elucidates this debate:
Within a few more years, he, Mr. Thiel, Mr. Rabois and others had transformed themselves into a close-knit network of technology entrepreneurs — innovators who created billion-dollar business after billion-dollar business, using the ideas, ethos and group bonds they had honed at The Stanford Review.
Many of the entrepreneurial successes came from being part of a group of a network of other successful people. Rightly or wrongly, this is a fairly accurate way the world works. It's not so much what you know, but who you know. Segregation changes the dynamic of who you know and hurts more than it helps. Also from the article:
Scott Walker, one of the only African-Americans in the class to try founding a start-up, said in an interview that he regretted spending so much time at his all-black fraternity, which took him away from the white friends from freshman year who went on to found and then invest in technology companies.
While it is possible that Fullstack can create a group of women which will be successful in helping one another succeed, I'm not convinced that doing it by teaching computer programming is the best route. If a majority of modern companies hired from within and filtered up skilled employees into CXX positions, one could make the argument that in 20-30 years there would be a better balance of men and women in leadership roles. However, that isn't how it currently works. The—for a lack of a better phrase—"Chairman Class" currently dominates the leadership roles in business and hop from company to company. So, now, you have a large group of self-segregating people who have opted out of being part of that class, and likely will not make the contacts required to succeed in business. This could very well make the problem worse, not better.
What's "woman-y" about it? (insert misogynist "does it have" + $sterotypical_female_attributes_and_behaviour sentences here)
Isn't that the wrong message? I mean, would you feel comfortable going to a school that was specifically made for you because you're, to use the current euphemism for retarded, "special"? You need a special school, you're so special...
And how would a prospective employer look at it? "Ohhhh, you graduated from "special" school... yeeeeah.... you know, no need to call us, we'll call you"
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I have totally had it with this nu-sexism. As of this month it's apparently totally hip since reports of such incidents now end up on my timeline on a daily basis. Is the world is trying to become some sort of reverse Saudi Arabia or something?!
0x or or snor perron?!
Your lazy ass communist unionized style of living is why Greece has to bail you out now! Or ... something like that. It had to do with France, Greece and a bailout.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You should maybe note that 25 of those days you have to take 'cause your car is frozen to the ground and you can't come to work.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Wait, wait, I may put spending time to keep my certificates, studying for them, reading up on recent developments in my field of work and learning the insides and outs of new technologies down as work time?
Awesome, I can retire tomorrow, I got the necessary years together!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Funny how this is modded troll... Here's a great documentary for educating the moderator(s). Or anybody else; it really is a great documentary on the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
0x or or snor perron?!
I see it as a useful marker: Attended this school? Don't hire at any cost. Risk to get a destructive feminazi is just too high.
Interesting language. I like it. At least from its name I think I like it. I think I use it to code a new compression program... don't know... perhaps something with 'bro' in it. Can I compile with: Coq bro?
https://xkcd.com/303/
This attempt to fix the perceived problem is quite flawed, because it skips the very, very important of determining why they don't want or can code in first place, and if it is an issue at all.
Teachers are paid like crap and treated worse. It's like how nerds view Game Programming. Every little girl wants to do it so the employees can be abused. It doesn't help that if you're a college bound kid fresh out of high school with no idea what to do in life it seems like a great idea. You cling to what you already know so you want to stay in school forever.
When I worked in call centers there were tons of elementary & junior high teachers (with degrees) looking for work. Many with years of experience. The math science teachers had a touch less trouble finding work, but the elementary were screwed. We've been cutting education since Reagan so it makes sense. The teachers I know who are doing well are all really house wives working part time for extra cash. And we all know how undergraduates are getting screwed. Basically if you need to make enough money to support a family then you're not going to be a teacher in America.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
It doesn't matter if you have a penis or not, going into tech right now is a fool's game. They do their best to outsource all of those jobs. The only reason the industry wants women to get into tech is that they want more humans to get into tech to keep the supply high and the wages low.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Because that's all their gender studies degree is good for: complaining about "problems" that they invent.
"Where are the MRAs setting up homeless shelters, suicide prevention schemes or education and training to get men out of those dangerous jobs into better ones?"
Just like people who set up women's shelters (i.e., men and women, "feminist" or not), people work on setting up regular homeless shelters, suicide prevention schemes and ... not training, but standards, regulations, unions and lawsuits against companies with unsafe practices. Nobody should care about their gender or if those people call themselves "feminists" or MRAs.
And what makes you think that feminists can't also be men's rights activists?
Seriously, stop treating women like special-needs children who are helpless and confused and in dire need of "adult" guidance.
This kind of thing (ostensibly done with the best of intentions) treats them as if they don't have the intelligence to make their own choices and decisions concerning their career path.
What these "women only" courses and programs are saying essentially is that women are too fragile or delicate or sensitive to survive in the usual job/school environment, which is kind of insulting if you think about it at all.
The vast majority of women I know are intelligent, capable people who would do just fine if special interest groups would just stop treating them like not-too-bright babies in a room full of sharp objects.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Nothing I like better than a fully stacked woman.
Oh, wait, you mean this is about coding?
Never mind.
and won't ask for tuition until the student finds a job post-graduation
What does this mean? Is it a disguised student loan?
Putting aside the gender issues, are there more details about this? Depending on the fine print, this can be very bad. Maybe I am a bit paranoid but if there is a clause like "if you refuse some job offer, then you need to pay", that's bordering slavery.
"But those debates did a great deal for Mr. Sacks. After graduation, he and Mr. Thiel published 'The Diversity Myth,' a book-length critique of Stanford’s efforts. Within a few more years, he, Mr. Thiel, Mr. Rabois and others had transformed themselves into a close-knit network of technology entrepreneurs — innovators who created billion-dollar business after billion-dollar business, using the ideas, ethos and group bonds they had honed at The Stanford Review...
PayPal had a hard time hiring women, Max Levchin, another co-founder, later told a class at Stanford, 'because PayPal was just a bunch of nerds! They never talked to women. So how were they supposed to interact with and hire them?... The notion that diversity in an early team is important or good is completely wrong,' he added. 'The more diverse the early group, the harder it is for people to find common ground.'"
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/23/us/gender-gaps-stanford-94.html
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
"everybody has the right to succeed"
Success is not a right.
This.
Because coding is something that people can pick up on their own and often do. And get into the workplace without completing an accredited degree program. So it attracts assholes that would never survive academia, which serves as a sort of filter for social maturity. This is already being seen in other fields, where women represent something like 60% of college graduating classes. The jerks either never enroll, or fail to complete their degree when they sperg out and are asked to leave the campus.
The solution to the employment disparity problem might be to require degrees for employment in the field. Much like a PE license is required to work as an engineer in some jurisdictions. And although not impossible, it's damned tough to get a license without an engineering degree.
Have gnu, will travel.
I mean, coding is coding. You do it right, or wrong. I'm a little unclear about how gender relates here.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
That was a random comment via Twitter, wasn't it? I think everyone knows that the internet can be extremely toxic. People say all sorts of nasty shit when they're anonymous, especially regarding women. That's a real issue that we need to work on as a society, but I think it's a different issue than discrimination in the workplace.
To me, the important question is: does she feel discriminated against in any way at work because she's a woman? According to her tagline for the ad in question, she appeared to think her team was awesome and smart. That doesn't sound like someone fighting discrimination at work to me.
I'm not saying discrimination against women doesn't happen. I just don't believe that discrimination alone could explain the massive gender gap we see. Why would programmers be so much more institutionally sexist than other white-collar professions in which there's a closer gender balance (say, doctors)? It just doesn't make any sense to me.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
I live in France as (I suspect) you do. And it's true that for half the pay we get about 35-40 days of paid vacation a year. And you're considered crazy if you don't take them.
So, there's that.
Write boring code, not shiny code!
You know I couldn't really visualize exactly how the tech environment is volatile for women to enter into. That is until I read these Slashdot comments. Sexist much? This article has apparently attracted insecure men in droves and ironically shows why such a school may be helpful.
Special classes, schools, etc, for women. Lots of interest for a year or two, then it just peters out and is cancelled for lack of interest. Don't see this being any different.
Does it seem peculiar that a branch of physics revolutionized by a pioneer like Marie Curie would remain so divided along gender lines?
What an utter load of bollocks. Or if you prefer, in the spirit of inclusivity, gonads.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
What would you say if the mason you hired spent 7 hours out of 8 repairing his concrete mixer instead of building your walls? And apart from losing his/her time and efforts to maintain his/her computers, today’s developer has the extra benefit that s/he is building on quicksands.
I wish women could bring back some common sense in this industry.
I'm getting tired about all this female/women stuff. What about us men??? What about Prostate Cancer awareness? I barely see anything about male awareness stuff unless it involves Viagra...
I'm still waiting for the all-male school of nursing.
Oh please. Stop trying to read things in to what I've said to suit your fantasy narrative. The point is that people who do well in something will get recognized for it regardless of gender. If you're mediocre nobody will care about your name, regardless of gender.
This is the real problem - a very few people want to be recognized as rockstars when they haven't earned it. Instead of just proving they're capable like anyone else would, they take up a podium and shout discrimination.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Nothing being said by those people is true. It's a result of the next wave of pseudo-feminists attempting to shame the population in to action with a bullshit narrative. Yes, people who do that, and more importantly people who support the people doing that are dipshits.
The problem with screaming "discrimination!" over everything is that you devalue the word. This is unfair to people who actually DO get discriminated against. Have you ever been to a feminist rally? You should try it some time. The ideas that get spread at these events are more toxic than anything I could say or do here.
I've known quite a few successful female programmers in my time. Yes, even during those "unenlightened" days when nobody was crying wolf over such things. Those who were intelligent and hard working had no problem getting ahead. I'm sorry, but you shouldn't get ahead just because if what's between your legs. It doesn't work that way for men, it shouldn't work that way for women.
Feminism used to fight real injustice. Independence for women. The right to vote. The right to be considered equal. These were worthy objectives that anyone should fight for. However the modern variant is overstepping. Instead of equal rights, they want undeserved privilege.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
From my experience I have learned that if people are good at coding (or whatever) it is because they are naturals at it and get pleasure from the activity (flow), not because somebody held their hand.
The number of women in CS has not gone down, it's the number of men in CS that has skyrocketed as "easy money". The ratio has shifted.
There are laws against discrimination based on gender among other things, right, passed by these same idiots? Not that I think this _should_ be illegal. But it is, AFAIK, and the laws should be used aggressively against the people who asked for them.
I hate to say it but.. because women are smarter. Only low self esteem men put up with the kind of horrible shit the average coder puts up with these days, including being bullied by High Alpha Fratbros and Sorority Sisters that are quickly becoming the "new management" of Silicon Valley. Women? Fuck that. "Oh shit, I got pregnant, I'm outta here, fuck this shit." At least that's my observation. it takes a certain kind of loser to sit there and get shoveled shit to eat with a smile day after day after day.
And remember, recently the most important thing to come out of Silicon Valley is the attitude that we only need you until we don't, so fuck you from management (Netflix). I mean, it's always been there, but before they used to at least pretend that you were valuable and try to move people around, but now? The day the project is done, hope you have your resume ready because your ass is hitting the streets. And that was brought here from Netflix by a woman, who lost her job the same way.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
His freedom to be shat on?
If women don't want to code then why do they complain about sexism in CS?
A small subset of women want to code, but the majority don't seem to. A majority of the women complaining about sexism in CS don't care about CS, they only care about sexism. A subset of those women don't actually give two shits about CS, they just like to complain about men and this is an opportunity to blame them for something.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
" Meanwhile, computers and computer languages were designed by large by men to be used by men."
Cars were mostly designed and built by men too - does this mean women shouldn't drive?
Yes.
No, but seriously, cars are actually designed explicitly to appeal to women, especially little cute ones like the Miata. (They tried to give it more man-appeal by making it less roundy in this revision...)
you don't do someone a service by teaching them languages which don't lead to gainful employment. Eventually they will have to learn the languages the industry uses.
If you could find a way to get them 10 years' experience in a language which has only been around for 5, then that would really help them get past HR...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Working Saturdays. Great way to create negative value. Technical debt everywhere! Humans cannot sustain maximum for long. After maximum is reached, a long cooldown time is required before productivity is back up to normal. I've been confronted in the past about why I was not only leaving hours before everyone else, but why I was leaving before 4p. I just said that I reached the end of my productivity for the day and I was making too many mistakes.
Of course the only teams that miss their deadlines are the one with mandatory death marches. They're also like a rut. Once your entire team is burnt out, they can't be productive again for a while. My personal experience is I can do about 20% more output for about a month, but then I drop down to about -20% output until I get about a month of relaxation. I usually spend the next month doing about -50% until I feel better, then I'm back at 100%. The overall output is much lower, but we do have a yearly burst that must be handled. We're putting a lot of work into reducing that burst.
To be fair, if you spend two hours every morning dressing up to go to work to program, your personality is probably not one compatible with being a great programmer. Most of the super great programmers have a personality of "take me as I am or GTFO". Of course I'm not a " super great", but I do believe I'm above average. I still need to be at least marginally concerned about my appearance. I shower and wear clean clothes, and about once a month I shave. That seems good enough for me.
Are the courses different for women? Do they learn how to code differently? I fail to understand why women need a special school for that. The problems lie entirely in a different spot. Women are discounted in a male or better to say macho dominated industry. It would be more fruitful to create a school that teaches management professionals how to diversify the workforce and how to accept people for their skill rather than base acceptance on gender. In the end men and women need to learn how to code in probably the same way and acquire the same skills.
In today's hyper-politicized environment, perhaps separate but equal will help. Probably not.
Science and reason tell us that the primates have fairly observable and significant sexual dimorphism. The hormonal differences are obvious. The males tend to be more aggressive, the females more passive, and we can observe the mind games they play with each other as they seek fun, companionship, pleasure, and power.
There's a reason that mormons, asians, and jews tend to score very highly in testing and are therefore desirable recruiting targets for job creators. The military and the old Hughes Aircraft have a documented record of recruiting and promoting Mormons -- they are very reliable in stress tests. Can't hand the keys to a nuclear sub or silo to just anybody.
Nurturing, in the form of family and discipline, is a major issue in our country. Some people can be trusted with nuclear keys, some are euthanized or caged for life, others fight deadly turf battles over lucrative gang territory. We yammer on and on about dealing with the mentally ill, but the answer seems to be right in front of our noses -- we spend boatloads on nurturing and social programs, yet we have wildly divergent results. It's measured and obvious.
Politicizing centuries old, legacy issues in an election season is a major problem, but overall, decriminalizing same sex behavior and opening combat to all patriots will be a major force towards restoring the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and the Meritocracy over the longer term.
The progressives claim to have broken new ground, but women have fought to the death, or emerged victorious throughout history, and certainly same sex has been present for ages. An F-22 test pilot flew at a local airshow several years ago, and her credentials and accomplishments listed on the program were nothing short of spectacular. The moral majority, evangelical, egg and sperm worshipping cult has certainly poisoned many debates on these issues.
"We the People" has been a struggle from the European slave colonies forward, and we need to accept our history and forge ahead. How many people remember that Herbert Hoover was a science and reason Quaker, architected the original social programs for those in crisis, was crucified in the NYC millionaire controlled press, and worked tirelessly to feed destitute Europeans in WW-2. Many only remember "Hoovervilles". It's all been twisted into a massive vote buying scheme.
A lot of the inequality probably traces to the tax and spend debacle as well. The 4 M. words of IRS Tax code appear to have been added, over the 100 years since the organization was created, as a means to hide spending on the revenue side, bypassing the Congressional oversight that comes along with appropriations. The nonpartisan CBO and IRS TAO have both testified that the current situation is unsustainable. We really should fix it.
Trump 2016 should quickly move to replace much of the executive cabinet hierarchy with cost-plus, performance based contracting -- the same science and reason based methodology used by the DoD and NASA -- and reform the IRS back into a revenue organization. Corporations like Apple, Google, Alphabet, HP, and IBM could quickly Make America Great Again.
Women generally don't want to code. That's why every SWJ brings up Grace Hopper as THE icon. Yeah, I know about the pic of the woman that coded the lunar landing and the code that's stacked taller than see is. So that's two.
Look people, most women don't want to code. It's ok. Nothing wrong with that. Stop forcing things because you think a 50/50 split is the only "fair" way.
Oh, and asking someone to pay afterwards only if she gets a job is a FANTASTIC economic plan.
And no-one has asked *why* they "don't want to code"? It's in the sweet spot of well-paying without being construction/trades manual labor - you'd think a decent proportion of office clerk / admin ass't / secretary workers would love to move into that space.
And asking to pay afterwards is a great move - that's signalling that they're confident enough that women programmers will find jobs that they're willing to bet their own money on that market existing.
"We have always been inspired by innovation and it seems peculiar that an industry revolutionized by a pioneer like Grace Hopper would remain so divided along gender lines."
So they're going to fix gender-division by... opening a new school and offering pretty substantial benefits, that you can only enjoy if you're one gender? That's a great way to make it not about gender... reminds me of the old joke, it seems kinda like screwing for virginity. Not that this is a new thing, but I haven't seen it so perfectly juxtaposed against a quote that says the total opposite so perfectly.