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EU Rules Bitcoin Is a Currency, Exchanges Are VAT-Exempt (thestack.com)

An anonymous reader writes with this snippet from The Stack: The European Union's Court of Justice (ECJ) has today ruled that Bitcoin is a currency, detailing exchanges that transfer traditional currencies into the crypto-coins for a fee are to be exempt from consumption taxes. Under the EU rule against value added taxes (VAT) on transfers of "currency, bank notes and coins used as legal tender," the new call presents an important boost for Bitcoin, erasing related costs for buying and using the virtual funds in Europe – one of the world's leading trading zones. That decision overrides other approaches previously taken by some of the member countries, which treated Bitcoin like an exchangeble commodity itself, rather than a medium of exchange.

75 comments

  1. Does VAT applies to Gold? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2

    If gold bullion is still subject to VAT, exempting bitcoins would not be correct. If it is America the Gold Merchants Trade Association (if !exist create()) will sue to get the same exemption.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by flowerp · · Score: 5, Informative

      According to this Wikipedia article, the EU countries have exempted Gold purchases from VAT
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_of_precious_metals

      I can confirm this for Germany, at least.

      --
      --- Eat my sig.
    2. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Regardless, that would only apply to the *coin* version of bitcoin - these gadgets that are coins with tamper-evident sticker with a btc wallet data contained within.

      It would be very weird if purely electronic currency was covered by noble metal items trade laws.

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      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    3. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In the UK some gold (sovereigns and gold britannias) count as currency, and so are exempt from capital gains tax, too.

    4. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      You do realize that, for purposes of international buying and selling ... gold and pretty much every other version of currency are essentially purely electronic?

      I'm pretty sure if someone buys gold on the market, they'll never see it or lay hands on it. Nobody is shipping around stack of bills to people buying currency.

      So, if I can buy and sell gold, Euros, or Dollars in purely electronic form, WTF is the difference with Bitcoin?

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    5. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by PRMan · · Score: 1

      Bitcoin is limited to 21 million. More gold is sold every month than has ever existed on the planet.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    6. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by jpapon · · Score: 1

      That just means that the Bitcoin market is smaller than the gold market. Even if there are only 21 million bitcoins "in existence", there's no reason that far far more than that could be bought and sold every month.

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    7. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      Why? Because it isn't a metal? Paper money and coinage are exiting.

    8. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by ADRA · · Score: 2

      Wait, you're telling me that profits from currency exchanges aren't considered capital gains? Yikes, no glaring obvious taxation holes there.... nope.

      --
      Bye!
    9. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Foreign currency is subject to capital gains tax. HMRC have a full set of manuals on the topic.

      In view of the other AC's comment, the only way sovereigns and gold Britannia coins could be exempt would be if they were considered "sterling". I somehow doubt that any coin from before the decimalisation or from a commemorative issue rather than a circulation issue is considered "sterling". The gold Britannia coin costs £814.67 for 1oz of gold shaped like a coin, but it isn't currency. The only thing that might not be subject to capital gains tax would be if you sold a sterling coin or note at more than its face value (and hat to you if you manage to do that for a living).

      Also, as far as "legal tender" is concerned, none of the British notes are :) Only of to the 2 pound coin they are. Legal tender - a judge can force you to take it on account of somebody's debt to you. So if you can refuse to have your debt repaid using banknote, but expect a judge to force you to take a large sack of metal.

    10. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 1

      Currently 14.75 million bitcoins have been issued, with 25 more every 10 minutes on average as new blocks are added to the block chain. The 25 coins are the incentive for "miners" to solve new blocks, and thus update the transaction history. The incentive falls in half every ~4 years, so the total issuance approaches 21 million asymptotically.

      In the past 30 days 2 million bitcoins have traded on exchanges that charge fees. There are some Chinese exchanges that have zero fee trading, but their volume is then suspect as not real.

    11. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, you're telling me that profits from currency exchanges aren't considered capital gains? Yikes, no glaring obvious taxation holes there.... nope.

      No, but you've just told the world what a fucking moron you are, since you don't understand the difference between a sales tax and a capital gain or income tax.

      Congratulations, idiot.

    12. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Because it's primarily collector / novelty item and only coincidentally carries monetary value.
      You don't get the physical bitcoins to pay for wares, but to keep it in display case. And you pay more than 1BTC for it.

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      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    13. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      The difference is that you can (and a lot of people do) request your gold bars to be delivered to a specific shipping address, and make them into jewelry, electronics or medicines. Or even plate your Ferrari.

      Gold has tangible value of a metal with legit technical and artistic uses. Law always treats it as commodity, not currency.

      Even dollars would be more 'commodity' than bitcoin: you can get a big bag of pennies, drill holes in the middle and use them as washers for nails of your roofing. There is absolutely no practical use for it other than value carrier = currency.

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      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    14. Re: Does VAT applies to Gold? by arwel · · Score: 1

      Actually, the 1 oz gold Britannia IS legal tender and has a face value of £100. Of course, you'd have to be insane to spend one at that price...

  2. But! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    But according to the average Slashdotter, bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme! How is it possible that governments are taking it seriously and major companies are using BitCoin? Could the average Slashdotter be wrong? Unpossible!

    1. Re:But! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Both are correct. Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme. And the average Slashdotter is generally wrong.

    2. Re:But! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, governments take Ponzi schemes very seriously ;-).

  3. Bitcoin is money. 1 Oz silver coin is not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bitcoin is money, that is what the judges decided. 1 Oz silver coin would be subject to taxation. Double taxation, to be precise. One would be for the increase in value, that is VAT. Second tax is if the coin dealer charges fee, service fee, such services are also taxable.

  4. Still not legal tender by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just a note to clarify that this ruling does not make Bitcoin legal tender in the EU, as the rule simply applies to any currency which is deemed or defacto used as legal tender somewhere.

    Its the EU financial law equivalent to the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the US Constitution - someone elses currency is not taxed any more than yours is.

    1. Re:Still not legal tender by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Informative

      ust a note to clarify that this ruling does not make Bitcoin legal tender in the EU

      Legal tender is a very strange thing. The largest legal tender amount in Scotland is the two pound coin. Neither Scottish bank notes or Bank of England bank notes are legal tender in Scotland.

      Legal tender has a rather peculiar and specific meaning and covers not only the currency but the specific form of currency as well as the amount. For example, there's some limit (not sure. A pound?) above which copper coins cease to become legal tender in England (maybe the whole UK).

      Legal tender is a rather specific thing in that a creditor cannot refuse repayment of a debt if paid in legal tender. They can accept repayment in things other than legal tender but they're not obliged to.

      This means that creditors can't take the piss by refusing to accept 20 pound notes (in England, tough luck Scots!), and debtors can't take the piss by insisting on repaying a grand in coppers.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:Still not legal tender by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So.... lets say I own an island somewhere, declare independance and set it up as a nation state...

      Good luck. If you can get the UN to recognise you as a nation state, I don't see how declaring even your own faeces as the currency of your country would be a problem for you. You'd be a miracle-worker after all...

    3. Re:Still not legal tender by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your logic fails so bad that it isn't even funny. First, you expect the EU to agree that what you declare as legal tender indeed is. Do you seriously think this decision contains any arguments supporting that? Free clue: This decision was not based on any nation having declared bitcoin as their currency. Thus your only argument has nothing in common with this decision. Second, if you wish to argue that consumer electronics indeed are a currency in which case you must be able e.g. answer such a simple question as what the denominations of your currency are. If I want to buy a TV worth two desktop PCs from you, what do I get in change if I pay with one laptop? If you cannot answer that, you will struggle to claim that your "currency" indeed is a currency.

    4. Re:Still not legal tender by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      This means that creditors can't take the piss by refusing to accept 20 pound notes (in England, tough luck Scots!), and debtors can't take the piss by insisting on repaying a grand in coppers.

      Sorry, but I have absolutely NO idea what you're trying to say here. Are you saying creditors/debtors will get angry or "pissed off" about refusing to accept 20 pound notes or something? That doesn't make sense to me....?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    5. Re:Still not legal tender by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Are you saying creditors/debtors will get angry or "pissed off" about refusing to accept 20 pound notes or something?

      I'm not sure why you wrote "pissed off". It's different from taking the piss.

      If you owe someone money and they refuse to accept common forms of it, that's going to annoy you. It's in fact illegal for them to refuse precisely to stop people annoying each other by trying to put stupid conditions on repayment or to repay in the stupidest way possible.

      If you have a debtors, you are legally obliged to accept the money if they repay in legal tender. If you demand payment in legal tender, they are legally obliged to pay in that way.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    6. Re:Still not legal tender by xaxa · · Score: 1

      If you are in debt for £10,000, the creditor can't refuse repayment if you turn up with a bundle of £20 notes. That cash is legal tender for repaying any debt, so the creditor can't demand a cheque instead, or gold. They must accept cash.

      There are exceptions for low-value coins, in the UK. The creditor is allowed to refuse to accept a truckload of 1p coins (1,000,000 coins), or 100,000 10p coins. Creditors must accept low-value coins for debts up to £10 (depending on the coin), but for larger debts can demand £1 or £2 coins (high value coins) or paper money.

      http://www.royalmint.com/about... (NB £5, £20 and £100 coins are ceremonial).

      Bitcoin is not legal tender in the UK, the same way US dollars aren't. The creditor could choose to accept repayment in either currency, but can't demand it.

    7. Re:Still not legal tender by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Details from Royal Mint:
      http://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/policies-and-guidelines/legal-tender-guidelines

      (£100, £20 and £5 coins are not in general circulation, so serviscope_minor's comment about the £2 coin in Scotland is correct in practice.)

      As legal tender only applies to debts, this means that bus drivers *are* allowed to refuse £10 notes, because you haven't yet accrued a debt. Similarly, shops don't have to accept a £20 for a loaf of bread; they can just not sell you the bread. (Though I suppose if you nicked the bread and left a £20 note, I don't know whether they could still get you for theft.)

    8. Re:Still not legal tender by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Creditors must accept low-value coins for debts up to -L-10 (depending on the coin), but for larger debts can demand -L-1 or -L-2 coins (high value coins) or paper money.

      Things to do when one is very rich #2473:

      Get a 1 million pound debt from some organisation you hate and repay it in pound coins.

      That's 10 metric tons of legal tender, motherfuckers!

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    9. Re:Still not legal tender by sexybomber · · Score: 2

      "Take the piss" is a British slang term that means roughly the same thing as when we say "give someone shit".

    10. Re:Still not legal tender by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      similarly, but staying with "piss".... take the piss == get pissy about

    11. Re:Still not legal tender by horza · · Score: 1

      In France, the French government no longer accept euros. For instance you can only pay the first €300 of your council tax bill in cash but generally all payments now have to be in electronic form.

      Phillip.

    12. Re:Still not legal tender by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In this context I would suggest it is more like "Not doing what you want them to do purely out of spite", or "stubbornly taking an unnecessary action".

    13. Re:Still not legal tender by GNious · · Score: 1

      Pissed = drunk
      Pissed off = angry
      Taking the piss = a form of mockery
      Piss-proud = unwarranted pride

    14. Re:Still not legal tender by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      It's different from taking the piss.

      I don't understand "taking the piss" in your context? It sounds like you're wanting to urinate on him? Taking a piss is generally meant to go urinate, take a leak..etc?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    15. Re:Still not legal tender by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Pissed = drunk

      Pissed off = angry

      Taking the piss = a form of mockery

      Piss-proud = unwarranted pride

      Ok..I've heard of ONE of those before..Pissed Off.

      Where do they use these other terms?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    16. Re:Still not legal tender by GNious · · Score: 1

      Uhm, in English speaking countries :)

      They are perhaps mostly used in England, and e.g. "piss-proud" is going out of common use, while "pissed" in the colonies have become synonymous with "angry".
      Regarding "taking the piss," you may instead have encountered the version "taking the mickey," which is cockney-slang (Mickey Bliss => piss) for the same.

      There are plenty more urinary expressions, but I'll leave discovering them as an exercise to the readers :)

    17. Re:Still not legal tender by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If you are in debt for £10,000, the creditor can't refuse repayment if you turn up with a bundle of £20 notes."

      £20 notes are not legal tender in Scotland.

    18. Re:Still not legal tender by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      This website may help you to understand:

      http://www.google.com/

      go there and type in "taking the piss".

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    19. Re:Still not legal tender by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Legal tender is one of those terms that people constantly confuse.

      Debts can always be settled in anything that the creditor requires. And a creditor can refuse to accept anything in settlement of a debt - even something called 'legal tender'.

      What legal tender actually means is that if you sue on a debt in a court because the debtor has refused to pay you, say because you wanted bitcoins in payment and specified that on the contract but the debtor doesn't want to deal in dodgy Internet currency, then the court will accept the presentation of 'legal tender' as settlement of that deb - overriding what is in the contract.

      'Legal tender' is the legal systems deadlock avoidance mechanism.

  5. Only double because single. by SharpFang · · Score: 2

    The coin dealer charges fee, service fee, etc are taxable, so you're paying for the coin, for the service, and tax on the service.

    OTOH you can just pay for a hot-dog with a silver coin, and there would be no tax (other than normal sales tax).

    I believe even the seller could give you the silver dollar as change for said hot-dog and no tax on that would appear (only on the hot-dog purchase).

    It all changes though, if you want to charge $10 for a $1 coin... in this case it's not a currency exchange, it's an item trade.

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  6. What were Bitcoins for again? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

    Be careful what you wish for. This will help open the way to a host of banking type regulations, especially about transparency and reporting.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:What were Bitcoins for again? by EvilAlphonso · · Score: 1

      It is already regulated in places... like Luxembourg

  7. Now, will there be further consequences by SillyBrit · · Score: 2

    If it has been declared a currency, then could that then trigger the same requirements for when trading in traditional currencies .... with anti money laundering requirements, proof of ID etc. Without looking at the details, I can see how this could well follow

    --
    --- To save space, would readers please insert their own witty comment -here-
    1. Re:Now, will there be further consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most major bitcoin exchanges already comply with AML/KYC, and require some form of ID to prevent fraud.

    2. Re:Now, will there be further consequences by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      That's the first thing I thought of, too. It looks like the new EU regulations are very similar to the US's regulations. People are going to cheer this ruling, thinking it brings legitimacy to bitcoins. I think it's going to destroy bitcoin's biggest advantage- anonymity.

      "The rules will also have to be complied with by any other kinds of businesses involved in making or receiving cash payments for goods worth at least €10,000, regardless of whether payment is made in a single, or via a series of linked, transactions."

      http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2015/june/new-eu-anti-money-laundering-rules-to-take-effect-from-26-june/

    3. Re:Now, will there be further consequences by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Prevent fraud? With the number of exchanges going belly up and their coins on deposit purloined by who knows who, their efforts to prevent fraud don't seem to be working all that well.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    4. Re:Now, will there be further consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First of all, theft from hacking isn't fraud. You're moving the goalposts, and they can protect customers from exchange hacking risk anyways by purchasing deposit insurance like Circle has.

      After MtGox, what exactly is the number of exchanges going belly up, since you know the number? What statistic would indicate it was working well? Circle and Coinbase are doing just fine in the USA, and Gemini just opened as the most regulated and compliant American exchange precisely because of concerned customers like you.

      If you'd like you can keep repeating the meme "lol bitcoin exchanges hacked", but with insurance and regulatory compliance post-Gox it makes you look uninformed and irrelevant.

    5. Re:Now, will there be further consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those ruling doesn't change anything to bitcoin itself (the protocol, the network, the way it can be transmitted by clients and mined). It only clarified the rules governing the interface between bitcoins and euros when buying or selling them. Once you have their private keys on your hard-drive, you can still do anything you want with them, (including passing them through a tumbler service for better anonymisation) without a bank or paypal freezing your funds or forbidding you to send or receive to a particular address.

  8. Absolute False Headline / Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nowhere did the court ever rule that Bitcoin is a currency.

    Ready the judgement.

    It mealy ruled that it is exempt from having VAT levied, under the same provision that also exempts currency among *many* other type of wealth exchange.

    Fuck Timothy, you are so retarted.

  9. TRICKS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a trick. They do that, so people accept their authority over it, then they will start applying other regulations to it.

    We don't recognize the authority of any government or banking system where bitcoins are concerned.

  10. the ruling itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text&docid=170305&pageIndex=0&doclang=en&mode=lst&dir&occ=first&part=1&cid=755724
    reference:

    JUDGMENT OF THE COURT (Fifth Chamber)

    22 October 2015 (*)

    (Reference for a preliminary ruling — Common system of value added tax (VAT) — Directive 2006/112/EC — Articles 2(1)(c) and 135(1)(d) to (f) — Services for consideration — Transactions to exchange the ‘bitcoin’ virtual currency for traditional currencies — Exemption)

    In Case C264/14,
    REQUEST for a preliminary ruling under Article 267 TFEU, from the Högsta förvaltningsdomstolen (Supreme Administrative Court, Sweden), made by decision of 27 May 2014, received at the Court on 2 June 2014, in the proceedings
    Skatteverket
    v
    David Hedqvist

  11. Fiat currency by JigJag · · Score: 0

    Not a bitcoin hater/lover, but I remember lots of loud voices here on Slashdot against fiat currencies.

    Isn't bitcoin the most extreme of fiat currencies? A number with no physical value at all, not even worth the paper it's written on since it's not written at all.

    At least, it's not centralized and barely regulated. For now. But let me know if I missed something.

    --
    "The hallmark of humanity is the ability to move beyond sensory inputs" - Mary Helen Immordino-Yang
    1. Re:Fiat currency by Crowd+Computing · · Score: 5, Informative

      Isn't bitcoin the most extreme of fiat currencies? A number with no physical value at all, not even worth the paper it's written on since it's not written at all.

      I think you're using the term "fiat currency" as the opposite of gold and other commodities that have been used as money. According to Wikipedia and confirmed by various other online sources, fiat currency is any currency backed and regulated by government. Bitcoin is obviously not gold, but neither is it fiat money since its value isn't regulated nor directly influenced by any central government authority. The value of Bitcoin can of course still be manipulated by market forces or external events, such as a government ban on cryptocurrencies, but this is true of commodities as well.

    2. Re:Fiat currency by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      You did in the sense that it is not sponsored by a government and required legal tender in a particular jurisdiction.

      However, if your definition of a fiat currency is simply "a currency not backed by a physical object" then you're partially / perhaps correct that bitcoin is a fiat currency. It all depends on how you define the value of solving hashes. Such solutions are obviously not gold, silver, diamonds, tea or some other such physical object. But neither is the value simply changed at the whim of a government bureaucrat. This is where the line becomes blurred.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    3. Re:Fiat currency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is gold backed by? There's no such thing as "physical" value - I can't stuff a gram of value into an envelope. I can only stuff something which represents value to a person into an envelope; it's subjective.

    4. Re:Fiat currency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fiat means an order or a decree, e.g. an emperor declaring that bananas are to be used as trading currency from now on, the bananas might or might not have a value of their own, it doesn't matter its still a fiat currency. But for example if apples are also widely used as a currency just because everyone agrees that apples are good thing to barter with, not by anyones decree then apples would be non-fiat currency. Again, it doesn't actually matter if the apples are good for anything else than currency.

    5. Re:Fiat currency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To use a car analogy, this is what a fiat currency involves.

    6. Re:Fiat currency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But neither is the value simply changed at the whim of a government bureaucrat.

      http://www.frbsf.org/education/publications/doctor-econ/2003/september/private-public-corporation

      Is the Federal Reserve a privately owned corporation?

      September 2003

      Yes and no.

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-owns-the-federal-reserve/10489

      If the Fed were actually a federal agency, the government could issue U.S. legal tender directly, avoiding an unnecessary interest-bearing debt to private middlemen who create the money out of thin air themselves. Among other benefits to the taxpayers. a truly “federal” Federal Reserve could lend the full faith and credit of the United States to state and local governments interest-free, cutting the cost of infrastructure in half, restoring the thriving local economies of earlier decades.

      Ellen Brown, J.D., developed her research skills as an attorney practicing civil litigation in Los Angeles. In Web of Debt, her latest book, she turns those skills to an analysis of the Federal Reserve and “the money trust.” She shows how this private cartel has usurped the power to create money from the people themselves, and how we the people can get it back.

      (no need to buy her books)

      http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/156146/yellen-at-the-fed

      Janet Yellen Is Poised To Be the Third Jewish Fed Chair in a Row. Where Are the Anti-Semites?

      Jewish cartel

      Got USA 18 trillion in debt with help from sell-out goy.
      http://www.usdebtclock.org/

      Working on even more jewing.
      https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp
      http://economixcomix.com/home/tpp/

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Froman
      Jewish of course. duh.

      Layman's terms
      https://encrypted.google.com/#q=urban+dictionary+jewed

      I already know every single possible bullshit response from tin foil, to you are anti-blahblah, to Jesus was a Jew, to there are some good and some bad Jews etc.. blah blah blah.

      Look at the fucking facts and lie to yourself but not to me.

    7. Re:Fiat currency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gold is also a fiat currency, but don't say this around a libertarian....

  12. It doesn't matter by Baron_Yam · · Score: 0

    The gov't might as well waste their time regulating Beanie Baby bartering. Bitcoin is incapable of growth. 7 tps max? Massive cost of easily disrupted network support? Same regulations as anything else when exchanging for currency?

    Yet we keep seeing these posts as if Bitcoin has any real significance.

  13. The more pertinent question for Europe is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How Bitcoin is regulated under Sharia law, since that's what we'll have here in one or two generations.

    1. Re:The more pertinent question for Europe is by JonnyCalcutta · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sorry, this is Slashdot. You want the Daily Mail comments section. Go back down there, turn right at Fox News and its the fourth website on the right.

    2. Re:The more pertinent question for Europe is by bobbied · · Score: 1

      You forgot the "straight on til morning" part....

      By the way, I think you turned the wrong way at Fox....

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    3. Re:The more pertinent question for Europe is by TeknoHog · · Score: 2

      Bitcoin isn't debt-based like most fiat currencies, and it isn't inflated at all like fiat. So it should be a more natural fit for banking systems that don't involve interest.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    4. Re:The more pertinent question for Europe is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont think we will see Sharia law in the next few generations. But Sharia Banking is better than what we have. It is basically a conservative, and no interest banking. They dont go on an investment spree with your money. I would happy to see more Sharia banking in the EU, or made the standard in EU. BTC doesnt inherently produce interest of any sort, it is totally works fine under Sharia Banking.

    5. Re:The more pertinent question for Europe is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's deflation based - like all 'restricted' currencies.

      People save it, so there is never enough in circulation to be of any use causing a paradox of thrift.

      Bitcoin is really just a very liquid intangible asset - essentially a virtual bottle of wine.

    6. Re:The more pertinent question for Europe is by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      People save it, so there is never enough in circulation to be of any use causing a paradox of thrift.

      It's a question of balance. If you have no food and a ton of BTC, you'll probably exchange some to stay alive.

      Currently (pun intended), Bitcoin is used by relatively few people, and its unit value is expected to increase, as its total amount represents more and more real-world value. Thus people save disproportionate amounts of it as an investment. At some point there might be a balance as the adoption curve flattens out, and the investment aspect will be less attractive, so people will use it like any currency.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  14. Libertarian's heads exploding yet? by quax · · Score: 1, Troll

    Must cause some major cognitive dissonances that the "socialist" EU allows for more economic freedom that the US.

    1. Re:Libertarian's heads exploding yet? by bobbied · · Score: 1

      How's this court decision differ from how Bitcoin is treated in the USA?

      Best I can tell, in both the EU and the USA, Bitcoin is treated as a way to exchange value. You "buy" them in exchange for money, goods or services, then at a later time exchange them for money, goods or services. About all that differs is what kinds of transactions create a taxable or legally reportable event....

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Libertarian's heads exploding yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The USA has rules that bit coin is a commodity, and therefor is not excemnt from VAT tax.

    3. Re:Libertarian's heads exploding yet? by quax · · Score: 1

      What AC said :-)

    4. Re:Libertarian's heads exploding yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The USA has rules that bit coin is a commodity, and therefor is not excemnt from VAT tax.

      Reference? The U.S. does not have a VAT, though most states have sales taxes which are similar in effect. I Googled, and could not find a state which treats buying or selling bitcoin as a transaction subject to sales tax. Using bitcoin to buy goods or services is treated like using USD to buy the good or service - i.e. if buying a pizza with dollars triggers sales tax, so does using bitcoin.