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EU Rules Bitcoin Is a Currency, Exchanges Are VAT-Exempt (thestack.com)

An anonymous reader writes with this snippet from The Stack: The European Union's Court of Justice (ECJ) has today ruled that Bitcoin is a currency, detailing exchanges that transfer traditional currencies into the crypto-coins for a fee are to be exempt from consumption taxes. Under the EU rule against value added taxes (VAT) on transfers of "currency, bank notes and coins used as legal tender," the new call presents an important boost for Bitcoin, erasing related costs for buying and using the virtual funds in Europe – one of the world's leading trading zones. That decision overrides other approaches previously taken by some of the member countries, which treated Bitcoin like an exchangeble commodity itself, rather than a medium of exchange.

47 of 75 comments (clear)

  1. Does VAT applies to Gold? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2

    If gold bullion is still subject to VAT, exempting bitcoins would not be correct. If it is America the Gold Merchants Trade Association (if !exist create()) will sue to get the same exemption.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by flowerp · · Score: 5, Informative

      According to this Wikipedia article, the EU countries have exempted Gold purchases from VAT
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_of_precious_metals

      I can confirm this for Germany, at least.

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      --- Eat my sig.
    2. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Regardless, that would only apply to the *coin* version of bitcoin - these gadgets that are coins with tamper-evident sticker with a btc wallet data contained within.

      It would be very weird if purely electronic currency was covered by noble metal items trade laws.

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      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    3. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In the UK some gold (sovereigns and gold britannias) count as currency, and so are exempt from capital gains tax, too.

    4. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      You do realize that, for purposes of international buying and selling ... gold and pretty much every other version of currency are essentially purely electronic?

      I'm pretty sure if someone buys gold on the market, they'll never see it or lay hands on it. Nobody is shipping around stack of bills to people buying currency.

      So, if I can buy and sell gold, Euros, or Dollars in purely electronic form, WTF is the difference with Bitcoin?

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      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    5. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by PRMan · · Score: 1

      Bitcoin is limited to 21 million. More gold is sold every month than has ever existed on the planet.

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      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    6. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by jpapon · · Score: 1

      That just means that the Bitcoin market is smaller than the gold market. Even if there are only 21 million bitcoins "in existence", there's no reason that far far more than that could be bought and sold every month.

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      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    7. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      Why? Because it isn't a metal? Paper money and coinage are exiting.

    8. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by ADRA · · Score: 2

      Wait, you're telling me that profits from currency exchanges aren't considered capital gains? Yikes, no glaring obvious taxation holes there.... nope.

      --
      Bye!
    9. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 1

      Currently 14.75 million bitcoins have been issued, with 25 more every 10 minutes on average as new blocks are added to the block chain. The 25 coins are the incentive for "miners" to solve new blocks, and thus update the transaction history. The incentive falls in half every ~4 years, so the total issuance approaches 21 million asymptotically.

      In the past 30 days 2 million bitcoins have traded on exchanges that charge fees. There are some Chinese exchanges that have zero fee trading, but their volume is then suspect as not real.

    10. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Because it's primarily collector / novelty item and only coincidentally carries monetary value.
      You don't get the physical bitcoins to pay for wares, but to keep it in display case. And you pay more than 1BTC for it.

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      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    11. Re:Does VAT applies to Gold? by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      The difference is that you can (and a lot of people do) request your gold bars to be delivered to a specific shipping address, and make them into jewelry, electronics or medicines. Or even plate your Ferrari.

      Gold has tangible value of a metal with legit technical and artistic uses. Law always treats it as commodity, not currency.

      Even dollars would be more 'commodity' than bitcoin: you can get a big bag of pennies, drill holes in the middle and use them as washers for nails of your roofing. There is absolutely no practical use for it other than value carrier = currency.

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      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    12. Re: Does VAT applies to Gold? by arwel · · Score: 1

      Actually, the 1 oz gold Britannia IS legal tender and has a face value of £100. Of course, you'd have to be insane to spend one at that price...

  2. But! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    But according to the average Slashdotter, bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme! How is it possible that governments are taking it seriously and major companies are using BitCoin? Could the average Slashdotter be wrong? Unpossible!

    1. Re:But! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Both are correct. Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme. And the average Slashdotter is generally wrong.

  3. Still not legal tender by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just a note to clarify that this ruling does not make Bitcoin legal tender in the EU, as the rule simply applies to any currency which is deemed or defacto used as legal tender somewhere.

    Its the EU financial law equivalent to the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the US Constitution - someone elses currency is not taxed any more than yours is.

    1. Re:Still not legal tender by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Informative

      ust a note to clarify that this ruling does not make Bitcoin legal tender in the EU

      Legal tender is a very strange thing. The largest legal tender amount in Scotland is the two pound coin. Neither Scottish bank notes or Bank of England bank notes are legal tender in Scotland.

      Legal tender has a rather peculiar and specific meaning and covers not only the currency but the specific form of currency as well as the amount. For example, there's some limit (not sure. A pound?) above which copper coins cease to become legal tender in England (maybe the whole UK).

      Legal tender is a rather specific thing in that a creditor cannot refuse repayment of a debt if paid in legal tender. They can accept repayment in things other than legal tender but they're not obliged to.

      This means that creditors can't take the piss by refusing to accept 20 pound notes (in England, tough luck Scots!), and debtors can't take the piss by insisting on repaying a grand in coppers.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:Still not legal tender by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      This means that creditors can't take the piss by refusing to accept 20 pound notes (in England, tough luck Scots!), and debtors can't take the piss by insisting on repaying a grand in coppers.

      Sorry, but I have absolutely NO idea what you're trying to say here. Are you saying creditors/debtors will get angry or "pissed off" about refusing to accept 20 pound notes or something? That doesn't make sense to me....?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:Still not legal tender by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Are you saying creditors/debtors will get angry or "pissed off" about refusing to accept 20 pound notes or something?

      I'm not sure why you wrote "pissed off". It's different from taking the piss.

      If you owe someone money and they refuse to accept common forms of it, that's going to annoy you. It's in fact illegal for them to refuse precisely to stop people annoying each other by trying to put stupid conditions on repayment or to repay in the stupidest way possible.

      If you have a debtors, you are legally obliged to accept the money if they repay in legal tender. If you demand payment in legal tender, they are legally obliged to pay in that way.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    4. Re:Still not legal tender by xaxa · · Score: 1

      If you are in debt for £10,000, the creditor can't refuse repayment if you turn up with a bundle of £20 notes. That cash is legal tender for repaying any debt, so the creditor can't demand a cheque instead, or gold. They must accept cash.

      There are exceptions for low-value coins, in the UK. The creditor is allowed to refuse to accept a truckload of 1p coins (1,000,000 coins), or 100,000 10p coins. Creditors must accept low-value coins for debts up to £10 (depending on the coin), but for larger debts can demand £1 or £2 coins (high value coins) or paper money.

      http://www.royalmint.com/about... (NB £5, £20 and £100 coins are ceremonial).

      Bitcoin is not legal tender in the UK, the same way US dollars aren't. The creditor could choose to accept repayment in either currency, but can't demand it.

    5. Re:Still not legal tender by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Creditors must accept low-value coins for debts up to -L-10 (depending on the coin), but for larger debts can demand -L-1 or -L-2 coins (high value coins) or paper money.

      Things to do when one is very rich #2473:

      Get a 1 million pound debt from some organisation you hate and repay it in pound coins.

      That's 10 metric tons of legal tender, motherfuckers!

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    6. Re:Still not legal tender by sexybomber · · Score: 2

      "Take the piss" is a British slang term that means roughly the same thing as when we say "give someone shit".

    7. Re:Still not legal tender by horza · · Score: 1

      In France, the French government no longer accept euros. For instance you can only pay the first €300 of your council tax bill in cash but generally all payments now have to be in electronic form.

      Phillip.

    8. Re:Still not legal tender by GNious · · Score: 1

      Pissed = drunk
      Pissed off = angry
      Taking the piss = a form of mockery
      Piss-proud = unwarranted pride

    9. Re:Still not legal tender by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      It's different from taking the piss.

      I don't understand "taking the piss" in your context? It sounds like you're wanting to urinate on him? Taking a piss is generally meant to go urinate, take a leak..etc?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    10. Re:Still not legal tender by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Pissed = drunk

      Pissed off = angry

      Taking the piss = a form of mockery

      Piss-proud = unwarranted pride

      Ok..I've heard of ONE of those before..Pissed Off.

      Where do they use these other terms?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    11. Re:Still not legal tender by GNious · · Score: 1

      Uhm, in English speaking countries :)

      They are perhaps mostly used in England, and e.g. "piss-proud" is going out of common use, while "pissed" in the colonies have become synonymous with "angry".
      Regarding "taking the piss," you may instead have encountered the version "taking the mickey," which is cockney-slang (Mickey Bliss => piss) for the same.

      There are plenty more urinary expressions, but I'll leave discovering them as an exercise to the readers :)

    12. Re:Still not legal tender by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      This website may help you to understand:

      http://www.google.com/

      go there and type in "taking the piss".

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  4. Only double because single. by SharpFang · · Score: 2

    The coin dealer charges fee, service fee, etc are taxable, so you're paying for the coin, for the service, and tax on the service.

    OTOH you can just pay for a hot-dog with a silver coin, and there would be no tax (other than normal sales tax).

    I believe even the seller could give you the silver dollar as change for said hot-dog and no tax on that would appear (only on the hot-dog purchase).

    It all changes though, if you want to charge $10 for a $1 coin... in this case it's not a currency exchange, it's an item trade.

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  5. What were Bitcoins for again? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

    Be careful what you wish for. This will help open the way to a host of banking type regulations, especially about transparency and reporting.

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    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:What were Bitcoins for again? by EvilAlphonso · · Score: 1

      It is already regulated in places... like Luxembourg

  6. Now, will there be further consequences by SillyBrit · · Score: 2

    If it has been declared a currency, then could that then trigger the same requirements for when trading in traditional currencies .... with anti money laundering requirements, proof of ID etc. Without looking at the details, I can see how this could well follow

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    --- To save space, would readers please insert their own witty comment -here-
    1. Re:Now, will there be further consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most major bitcoin exchanges already comply with AML/KYC, and require some form of ID to prevent fraud.

    2. Re:Now, will there be further consequences by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      That's the first thing I thought of, too. It looks like the new EU regulations are very similar to the US's regulations. People are going to cheer this ruling, thinking it brings legitimacy to bitcoins. I think it's going to destroy bitcoin's biggest advantage- anonymity.

      "The rules will also have to be complied with by any other kinds of businesses involved in making or receiving cash payments for goods worth at least €10,000, regardless of whether payment is made in a single, or via a series of linked, transactions."

      http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2015/june/new-eu-anti-money-laundering-rules-to-take-effect-from-26-june/

    3. Re:Now, will there be further consequences by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Prevent fraud? With the number of exchanges going belly up and their coins on deposit purloined by who knows who, their efforts to prevent fraud don't seem to be working all that well.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  7. the ruling itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text&docid=170305&pageIndex=0&doclang=en&mode=lst&dir&occ=first&part=1&cid=755724
    reference:

    JUDGMENT OF THE COURT (Fifth Chamber)

    22 October 2015 (*)

    (Reference for a preliminary ruling — Common system of value added tax (VAT) — Directive 2006/112/EC — Articles 2(1)(c) and 135(1)(d) to (f) — Services for consideration — Transactions to exchange the ‘bitcoin’ virtual currency for traditional currencies — Exemption)

    In Case C264/14,
    REQUEST for a preliminary ruling under Article 267 TFEU, from the Högsta förvaltningsdomstolen (Supreme Administrative Court, Sweden), made by decision of 27 May 2014, received at the Court on 2 June 2014, in the proceedings
    Skatteverket
    v
    David Hedqvist

  8. The more pertinent question for Europe is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How Bitcoin is regulated under Sharia law, since that's what we'll have here in one or two generations.

    1. Re:The more pertinent question for Europe is by JonnyCalcutta · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sorry, this is Slashdot. You want the Daily Mail comments section. Go back down there, turn right at Fox News and its the fourth website on the right.

    2. Re:The more pertinent question for Europe is by bobbied · · Score: 1

      You forgot the "straight on til morning" part....

      By the way, I think you turned the wrong way at Fox....

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    3. Re:The more pertinent question for Europe is by TeknoHog · · Score: 2

      Bitcoin isn't debt-based like most fiat currencies, and it isn't inflated at all like fiat. So it should be a more natural fit for banking systems that don't involve interest.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    4. Re:The more pertinent question for Europe is by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      People save it, so there is never enough in circulation to be of any use causing a paradox of thrift.

      It's a question of balance. If you have no food and a ton of BTC, you'll probably exchange some to stay alive.

      Currently (pun intended), Bitcoin is used by relatively few people, and its unit value is expected to increase, as its total amount represents more and more real-world value. Thus people save disproportionate amounts of it as an investment. At some point there might be a balance as the adoption curve flattens out, and the investment aspect will be less attractive, so people will use it like any currency.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  9. Re:Fiat currency by Crowd+Computing · · Score: 5, Informative

    Isn't bitcoin the most extreme of fiat currencies? A number with no physical value at all, not even worth the paper it's written on since it's not written at all.

    I think you're using the term "fiat currency" as the opposite of gold and other commodities that have been used as money. According to Wikipedia and confirmed by various other online sources, fiat currency is any currency backed and regulated by government. Bitcoin is obviously not gold, but neither is it fiat money since its value isn't regulated nor directly influenced by any central government authority. The value of Bitcoin can of course still be manipulated by market forces or external events, such as a government ban on cryptocurrencies, but this is true of commodities as well.

  10. Re:Fiat currency by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

    You did in the sense that it is not sponsored by a government and required legal tender in a particular jurisdiction.

    However, if your definition of a fiat currency is simply "a currency not backed by a physical object" then you're partially / perhaps correct that bitcoin is a fiat currency. It all depends on how you define the value of solving hashes. Such solutions are obviously not gold, silver, diamonds, tea or some other such physical object. But neither is the value simply changed at the whim of a government bureaucrat. This is where the line becomes blurred.

    --
    If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
    Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
  11. Libertarian's heads exploding yet? by quax · · Score: 1, Troll

    Must cause some major cognitive dissonances that the "socialist" EU allows for more economic freedom that the US.

    1. Re:Libertarian's heads exploding yet? by bobbied · · Score: 1

      How's this court decision differ from how Bitcoin is treated in the USA?

      Best I can tell, in both the EU and the USA, Bitcoin is treated as a way to exchange value. You "buy" them in exchange for money, goods or services, then at a later time exchange them for money, goods or services. About all that differs is what kinds of transactions create a taxable or legally reportable event....

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Libertarian's heads exploding yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The USA has rules that bit coin is a commodity, and therefor is not excemnt from VAT tax.

    3. Re:Libertarian's heads exploding yet? by quax · · Score: 1

      What AC said :-)