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Patricia, Strongest Hurricane Ever Seen In Eastern Pacific, Strikes In Mexico

CNN reports that Hurricane Patricia has made landfall in Mexico; Patricia is notable for having the third-lowest barometer reading ever recorded, and as "the strongest hurricane ever observed in the eastern Pacific or Atlantic oceans." Slate points out that at one point, "satellite estimates of Patricia’s intensity broke the Dvorak scale, peaking at 8.3 on the 8.0 scale. ... In fact, Patricia is now very close to the theoretical maximum strength for a tropical cyclone on planet Earth." The Weather Channel is tracking the storm's path, and predicts "catastrophic damage ... along a narrow path as the eye slices into the interior of southwest Mexico Friday night." Here's a map from the National Weather Service showing Patricia's track as well as projected path.

23 of 144 comments (clear)

  1. Eye collapsed well before reaching shore by JoeyRox · · Score: 4, Informative

    As often happens with Pacific storms since ocean conditions for maintaining strength are rarely favorable near coastal areas in that part of the world. Winds were down over 50mph by the time it made landfall.

    1. Re:Eye collapsed well before reaching shore by rmdingler · · Score: 3, Insightful
      They've been saying that since the first news reports. Then it hit 33 degree celsius el Nino year coastal water temps and bam...Patricia was a big old five.

      My hat is off to modern day weather forecasting.

      I can view Doppler from the pocket cellie in a field far enough from town they can't hear you scream, but even now, predicting the path of a hurricane is still probabilistic.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    2. Re:Eye collapsed well before reaching shore by jklovanc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Winds were down over 50mph by the time it made landfall.

      Fifty miles per hour seems like a lot until you realize that means winds are still up to 150mph.

    3. Re:Eye collapsed well before reaching shore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The news I heard said it was down to 190mph (down 10 mph), and the eye looked like it was still there. Yes, it will decrease quickly now, but that will just mean lots of water and storm surge.

    4. Re:Eye collapsed well before reaching shore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm not sure the ocean is to blame for the weakening. Patricia had a very compact inner core and a tiny eye. Strong hurricanes generally undergo eyewall replacement cycles, in which the inner eyewall contracts in and an outer eyewall takes over as the main eyewall. The NHC advisories emphasized the very compact inner core in the 11 AM EDT advisory. The 5 PM EDT advisory mentioned an outer wind maximum, which would be the outer eyewall. It sounds like Patricia was undergoing and eyewall replacement cycle as it made landfall in Mexico. Category 5 hurricanes rarely maintain their maximum intensity for very long. Eyewall replacement cycles typically result in the storm weakening while that takes place. Normally, cool waters associated with the California current (the cool northerly branch of the north Pacific gyre) do result in cool waters in the eastern Pacific, but I don't think that's the primary reason for Patricia weakening. I think an eyewall replacement cycle is primarily responsible for the weakening.

    5. Re:Eye collapsed well before reaching shore by quax · · Score: 3, Informative

      Anon comment nailed it, from wunderground:

      "Late-afternoon data from a NOAA hurricane hunter aircraft in Patricia indicates that the hurricane is forming concentric eyewalls, presaging an eyewall replacement cycle, where the inner eyewall collapses and is replaced by an outer eyewall that forms out of a spiral band. This process typically weakens the peak winds of the hurricane by up to 20 mph, but spreads out the highest winds of the storm over a larger area. This process typically reduces the wind damage from a storm, but makes a larger storm surge, leading to more storm surge damage."

    6. Re:Eye collapsed well before reaching shore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      NHC did say that the 190 mph estimate in the last full advisory prior to landfall might be a "generous" estimate. The special advisory indicating that Patricia had made landfall estimated the winds at 165 mph at that time. However, the most recent advisory included an interesting comment:

      An unconfirmed sustained wind report of 185 mph and a gust to 211 mph was received from a NOAA/NWS Hydrometeorological Automated Data System (HADS) elevated station (295 ft) at Chamela-Cuixmala, Mexico near the time of landfall. This observation should be considered unofficial until it has been quality controlled.

    7. Re:Eye collapsed well before reaching shore by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      Is that from an "eye" witness?

  2. 190 mph winds by rmdingler · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It'll crush the ocean-front vacation homes of the wealthy,

    and,

    the only homes of the poor.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:190 mph winds by ultranova · · Score: 2

      You should have posted this anonymous so it was obvious.

      Anonymous posts are easy to ignore. But politics is serious business because the consequences can be quite devastating. So having one side of the political spectrum go ever further in their attempt to appeal to the worst elements of human nature, while the other desperately pretends everything's fine, is not a good thing.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  3. Re:How did it fit on a scale it broke? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Dvorak is derived from sustained wind speed and pressure. The wind speeds are so high, and the pressures so low on this storm that they exceed the theoretical maximum (8.0) listed for Dvorak.

    I assume they calculated it at 8.3 by extrapolating from the existing scale.

  4. Re:How did it fit on a scale it broke? by hawguy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Does anyone understand the Dvorak scale well enough to comment on how this hurricane supposedly broke it and yet it can be accurately put on the scale as an 8.3?

    And more importantly, what is it on the Qwerty scale, which is the one that most of us know?

  5. Re:Ever seen? Based on what. by jklovanc · · Score: 2

    If it hasn't been written down it hasn't been seen. /sarcasm

  6. "Third-lowest barometer reading ever recorded" by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's not quite so exclusive as it sounds. There are a lot of storms with the same barometer reading

    870mm - Typhoon Tip (1979)
    875mm - Typhoon June (1975)
    875mm - Typhoon Nora (1973)
    877mm - Typhoon Ida (1958)
    880mm - Typhoon Kit (1966)
    880mm - Typhoon Rita (1978)
    880mm - Typhoon Vanessa (1984)
    880mm - Hurricane Patricia (2015)

    The 1970s were a bad decade for storms in the West Pacific.

    1. Re:"Third-lowest barometer reading ever recorded" by DevilM · · Score: 2

      BTW, it turns out that many of the readings from the typhoons in the 60s were estimated incorrectly. See Black, P.G., (1992): "Evolution of maximum wind estimates in typhoons" ICSU/WMO International Symposium on Tropical Cyclone Disasters, October 12-16, 1992, Beijing.

  7. Re:Get used to it by jklovanc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    a chaotic system will produce much larger storms than ever before.

    I love it when people use phrases like "ever before" when they actually mean "in our brief recorded history".

  8. This is a small fast storm by trout007 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The hurricane force winds only extend about 25 miles which is way below the average of 100 miles. Katrina was around 125 miles. So while the peak winds here are fast it's a very small storm. Almost midway between a hurricane and tornado.

    --
    I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
  9. Re:I've yet to see mention.. by jblues · · Score: 3, Informative

    ..of the potential for flooding in Mexico City. Also, what kind of damage does a 50mph wind do to a shanty-town?

    Here's the classification system that we use in the Philippines, where there on average 20 Typhoon's (your Hurricane's eastern twisted sister) per year. It describes the predicted effect at different intensity grades on builds ranging from very light to heavy construction materials. Note that metric units are used.

    --
    If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
  10. Re:How did it fit on a scale it broke? by theskipper · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First, some background. Dvorak is a well-known blowhard tech pundit. His blowhardness is so great that meteorologists unanimously decided to adopt the scale to measure the strength of hurricanes.

    To put this in perspective, imagine being in the same room with one Dvorak. Then imagine the same room filled with eight point three Dvoraks. That's how strong this hurricane is.

  11. Re:How did it fit on a scale it broke? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

    Dvorak is derived from sustained wind speed and pressure. The wind speeds are so high, and the pressures so low on this storm that they exceed the theoretical maximum (8.0) listed for Dvorak.

    I assume they calculated it at 8.3 by extrapolating from the existing scale.

    No - This hurricane goes the whole way to 11.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  12. Re:How did it fit on a scale it broke? by Qzukk · · Score: 4, Funny

    Me? I'm just hoping that the windspeed stays below escape velocity!

    --
    If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  13. Re:How did it fit on a scale it broke? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Your description sort of comes close. The scale was originally based on categories of visual features in satellite imagery, for use when direct wind measurements were not possible. They were roughly correlated with wind over time, but still is mainly a categorization scheme more than a scale. It is like the F and EF scales of tornado, which are roughly based on damage done to various structures. Both sets of scales have a max category, where a hurricane has the strong features or a tornado does the worst listed categories of damage. It is discrete, so there is no higher value on that scale, unless you try fitting a wind speed to it and extrapolating. But that is re-purposing and changing a scale that was not about raw wind speed into one that is.

  14. Hurricane Opal by EthanDemurs · · Score: 2

    I was raised in Fort Walton Beach, Florida and I remember Hurricane Opal(1995) like it was yesterday. The highest wind speeds were captured just blocks from my home on Hurlburt Air Force base at 145 mph. I've seen, firsthand, the absolute destruction these wind speeds can cause. Homes built near the water that were supposed to be hurricane proof were absolutely leveled. Our 4 lane highway running through Okaloosa Island was torn away in massive chunks. The day after the storm boats of all sizes were found in peoples homes, parking lots, and many other random places around the city. I hope these people have strict building codes and have taken the best possible precautions available to them, things are going to be ugly.