Slashdot Mirror


Coding Academies -- Useful Or Nonsense? (techcrunch.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Stephen Nichols, CEO of a platform that helps non-coders create simple video games, thinks that so-called coding academies are essentially snake oil. "In 20+ years of professional coding, I've never seen someone go from novice to full-fledged programmer in a matter of weeks, yet that seems to be what coding academies are promising, alongside instant employment, a salary big enough to afford a Tesla and the ability to change lives." His point is reminiscent of Peter Norvig's in "Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years."

Nichols also thinks coding tools will become powerful enough in the next decade that the demand for actual, dedicated coders will diminish (perhaps not surprising, given his business). But he's probably right that the people likely to go to a coding academy are likely to be the ones using those tools, when they arrive. "Put succinctly, coding is writing text files in foreign languages containing instructions suitable for an absolute idiot to follow. ... For a little while, spending tens of thousands of dollars on a coding academy might feel like a good way to surmount the intimidation. ... More likely, it is just a new pathway into debt."

9 of 132 comments (clear)

  1. Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Coding academies are nonsense and attract the kind of mind that becomes a lawyer because they want money, or becomes a doctor because they want money. Real programmers have gravitated towards their field long before ever having a formal education in it. Also, I highly doubt you can teach the computer science concepts that back up this field in a few weeks. Really, these places just produce code monkeys who don't really understand what they're doing but glue pieces of code from Stack Overflow together.

    1. Re:Nope by Pseudonym · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Masonry and carpentry is an apprenticeship. I wish that more people in the software business realised that software is too.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    2. Re:Nope by sg_oneill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      [quote]

      Masonry and carpentry is an apprenticeship. I wish that more people in the software business realised that software is too.
      [/quote]

      Once upon a time many of the sciences where too. Back around the second world war, my grandfather who was around 14-15 started an apprentiship with the local national science organization (Cant remember if it was the CSIRO back then) as an industrial chemist. Because university places where largely for the wealthy, as a working class lad his only option was to work as an apprentice chemist and work his way up. Eventually he worked up to becoming a qualified chemical engineer (And yes, they actually awarded bachelor degrees, but they where not as prestigious as ones from a university) , and ultimately ended up at BP designing process control systems for oil refineries.

      Personally I think for practical programming that makes a lot of sense. Of course theres still a role for the research side of it , that still belongs at a university, but there really isn't anything in programming as a tool that precludes it being taught in the same way an electrician learns his trade.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    3. Re:Nope by eulernet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'd like to share my own experience, since I'm self-taught programmer.

      I started programming 35 years ago, on a pocket calculator (TI58-C), then moved onto some micro-computers.
      At this time, I realized that that's what I wanted to do as my job.
      So I spent a lot of time disassembling code, in order to understand how it was done.
      Then I started to write my own games.
      I finally got hired into a video game company, but I realized that working in a company could not provide me enough software education.
      I bought the Art of Computer Programming, and I passionately read it.
      Later, I entered programming contests, where I could explore combinatorial algorithms by practicing them.
      Now, I'm equivalent to a software engineer, though I'm underemployed given my experience.

      So yes, you can practice programming and acquire theoretical bases afterwards.
      But most coders I met were satisfied with their level, never trying to challenge their knowledge.
      I don't speak about learning new languages, but new ways to solve problems.
      They are more dedicated to build their career.

    4. Re:Nope by i.r.id10t · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I can see where a boot camp type course - a week or two of really in-depth work on a particular language or technology "stack" can be helpful, IF the folks offering it have qualified teachers AND the folks participating in it are experienced in other parts of software development.

      But as a "I want to learn how to program" ... no, not good.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    5. Re:Nope by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Where I'm paying them to do the work it's more than minimum wage. Look at what you can get on fiverr. I'm not talking about full time job I just need someone to write me a Python or C skeleton to my specifications.

      When I look at how long it will take me to write a simple script to do some boring task automation vs paying someone $5 to do it, it's a no brainer.

      My side jobs are contracted at $100/hr. There is a finite amount of time in the day and if I can pay someone to crank out something that isn't worth my time I'll do it.

      If you are a programmer, this is what you are competing against. Slashdotters are going to have to justify their $30+/hr in other knowledge & skills.

      Even basic stuff like FPGA programming is $5/these days.

  2. Stupid Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Teach them math and critial thinking... Coding is just a translation level. ie human "compilers". Taking one language and encoding in another. As C++ is converted to binary (or P-code to bin).

    Writing code easy ANYONE can do it. Understanding what you are writing is meaningful, actaully does what you want? That is crital thinking.

  3. sure by ThorGod · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's called attrition rate. For any profession there's a relatively small amount that stay within that profession for 10, 20, 30 years. The counterexamples to this rule are the professions that tend to be taken by people that wanted to be in that profession for all of their lives. i.e. an MD or a lawyer. I'm sure coding academies will attract a high amount of novices. But from that influx there will still be some percent - perhaps even 0.001% - that just springboard after it.

    Is it enough to call it not snakeoil? Probably not. In my totally unscientific and personal experience, programming languages and frameworks usually have sufficient information for me to figure them out and know how to use them. That includes the very basic stuff of learning java, for example. If you name a programming language there's a way to teach yourself it for free. So the coding academies are vying for a portion of a market with a "free" and viable enough alternative. I'd call THAT snakeoil.

    --
    PS: I don't reply to ACs.
  4. The no man's land by lucm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nichols also thinks coding tools will become powerful enough in the next decade that the demand for actual, dedicated coders will diminish

    That's what they said when they created Cobol.

    Seriously I've seen this same pattern over and over. Some company comes up with a "power user" development tool which is seen as the best thing ever because it will allow business users (who have business knowledge) to do everything themselves. But unfortunately the tool never does exactly what is needed and it proves a bit too tricky to configure so either the thing is shelved or it's passed on to a team of "real" developers so they can integrate in-house tools with this piece of shit and work around the bugs. It's a nightmare because the tool is too high-level and limited for a programmer to easily sets his hooks in, so rockstars run away from that project (or company). That team becomes a dark pit where only lifers and quota employees are thrown in, and they are miserable and the whole thing sucks and there's champagne for everyone whenever a ridiculously low hanging fruit goal is achieved.

    A power user development tool is even worse than an in-house "framework" designed by some dude who left two years ago to do whitewater rafting in South America and never came back.

    --
    lucm, indeed.