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Could the Volkswagen Cheating Scandal Improve Emissions Standards? (citiesofthefuture.eu)
dkatana writes: An article in Cities of the Future suggests that the "automaker's emissions scandal could end up being a boon if it pushes governments and the industry to reassess diesel's impact more honestly and move away from it altogether." The article also asks the European Union to accelerate the introduction of new emissions standards, currently slated to take effect in September 2018, and to order mandatory recalls for all the vehicles affected, as Germany has. It points out that some drivers could refuse to have their cars "fixed" out of fear that the diesel engine will lose gas efficiency and power output.
So, the author has already decided on what the result should be, without the benefit of the reassessment they've said should happen. That doesn't seem "honest" to me.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Of course, emission TESTING standards might get improved in ways that can catch cheaters faster...
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
It will probably tighten up standards so tight that bicyclists will have to have an emissions probe stuck up their backside annually to see if they are contributing to global warming.
May want to skip the beans for dinner for a while...
Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!
Vote for Bernie in 2016!
They will go for relaxing NOx requirements. A lower gas efficiency is something consumers could sue for.
That they'll do some random tests of all makes and manufacturers, and discover a few other cheaters.
To be honest, VW stock could be a fortune maker if you buy it when it's on a drop due to threats of fines, and then one or two other makers are caught cheating on emissions. VW stock will bounce back up.
Once you ban a technology, you are also banning any development on it. It may have some undesirable effects now. Ban those effects. If the technology is worthwhile, someone will figure out a way to solve the problems.
Also, just because there is one bad egg doesn't mean an entire technology is bad.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
Over here in the UK for example, every vehicle has to have an MOT certificate to be used on the road. No certificate, no go. ANPRS cameras check that passing vehicles have certificates and insurance.
Part of the MOT certificate is the emissions test. There will most likely be a requirement that VW diesels have to have their ECU firmware updated before they can pass the emissions test.
That's what I reckon will happen.
Not sure whether the timing of this article is a coincidence, but it seems that European has voted today that emissions standards should get more lax: http://www.theguardian.com/env...
We're now over 30 minutes into an automotive related story and so far not one TDI neckbeard has chimed in about getting 69 mpg while towing a boat uphill.
Wonderful. I don't know if the scandal will ever improve anything with regard to emission standards, but I am certain the Internet has already been improved.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
If owners refuse to fix their cars governments can easily refuse to license them for the road.
and that's why everyone in the Auto industry is shitting themselves right now. They're going to actually be regulated for real for the first time in ages (maybe forever). Seems like every other week another batch of cars are discovered cheating.
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It points out that some drivers could refuse to have their cars "fixed" out of fear that the diesel engine will lose gas efficiency and power output.
Tbh that is what I would do. It's almost guaranteed that the fix will lose gas efficiency and power output. And then I would never buy another VW again.
And, if you didn't get it fixed, you'd go to renew your tags through your motor vehicle department only to find that your car is ineligible to be registered.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
I doubt it. I expect that emissions and inspections will scrutinize these cars more to confirm that they're conforming, not less. They may even issue software updates to their OBD-II/CANBUS emissions test controllers to check the veracity of the software in the car's computer. Then again, if there's still any question there's always a tailpipe test on a dyno.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
probably a 3 element CAT. platinum/palladium/rhodium. SCR technology is out there on 2.0 TDIs and failing too.
I have a vehicle ('95, in Georgia) that requires an annual dyno test.
Finding a working inspection station for these is getting harder every year. I can't imaging telling a pack of people with recent cars to go find them. ('96 and later models don't have to do the dyno test here so they are getting pretty rare...)
--- Mercutio was right.
Damn I miss 100 watt bulbs everywhere :-)
LEDs work well enough though. Just a few CFLs left waiting to die now (or me to get pissed enough to help them along...)
--- Mercutio was right.
Only CARB states may requires testing, but the VINs of the affected vehicles can simply be submitted to states' motor vehicle departments, and given the nature of Federal highway funding to the states, plus it actually being against Federal law to tamper with the emissions controls of a vehicle, it would not be difficult to compel states MVDs to deny registration of affected vehicles without manufacturer-submitted proof that the manufacturer-created tampering was not corrected.
These Federal laws are specifically on the books for cases of fraud for profit. The EPA isn't going to go after some private owner taking the catalytic converters of of their '77 Monte Carlo or removing the smog pump from their '76 Mustang or blocking the EGR crossover and removing the charcoal canister from their '79 Magnum, they're going to go after the people that make a business of removing the emissions controls on relatively modern vehicles in quantity or violate the law from the point of original manufacture. This predominately means dealerships and manufacturers.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
The engines are optimized for (at least a modicum) of emissions already. If you told an aftermarket tuner to completely ignore NOx (and possibly particulates, although the DPF would still catch them), he could substantially increase horsepower (think 25% or more).
Also, tuning a diesel does not tend to reduce MPG much, because you are actually using the extra power only occasionally. The rest of the time it uses only the same amount of fuel as it did before.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
They don't want their fucking car's polluting.
TFA states that some people may try to refuse the fix if it affects performance. So perhaps they don't care so much.
Unlike the cock-suckers who buy old ass cars to get around emissions checks.
When its all over, VW might have to buy back the cars from people who won't accept the performance hit. The market for pre-smog muscle cars is heating up and the people with refunds in hand might just opt out of the whole emissions rat race for a nice 454 V8.
Have gnu, will travel.
Yes, because tons of people commute in 40+ year old cars with laughable MPG, all to get around your precious precious smog laws.
Actually it's the primary debate for me. It makes zero sense (and cents) to go out and actively *grow* motor fuels by farming plants to me.
Why not? It's not like we don't grow a lot of other things - food, lumber, medicine, etc...
Now, where you have a point is on the 'cents'. Current technologies are just not economical, but figuring out this stuff is still 'good' because it puts a hard limit on the price for fossil fuels - at some point biofuels are cheaper than fossil.
Matter of fact, the last peak in oil prices was flirting with that price range.
I'll note that 'biofuels cheaper than fossil' is very much not using corn based ethanol. You need crops that are much more scaleable.
I don't read AC A human right
Diesel is EOL thanks to VW executive decision that it was too costly to make diesel ' Clean'.
Hydrogen== emergent technology. Hydrogen for the foreseeable future plays increasingly in powering the planet, space and our climate sustainability programs.
they'll fix it so that you don't lose power / efficiency.
but here is the kicker to that: some of them need new physical parts. and that is in their fix plan. which is why they're offering deep discounts to owners of some cars in order to buy a new car.. because the fix is so expensive(1.6 tdi's in germany for example afaik).
basically they will have to bring the engines up to the spec of the newer engine model and that needs swapping out parts.. it's not just a firmware fix.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
It's easy to improve emissions standards. Improving actual performance is the hard part. Hence the VW work-around. The regulators can specify any standard they like, someone with develop a software hack that shows them what they want to see.
Self-driving cars are not permitted but automakers are developing them.
This isn't a ban though. As you say, car companies, even non-car companies like google, are able to get exceptions for testing on public roads.
It's better to say that self-driving cars aren't banned, it's just that the current regulatory system for cars is such that a self-driving car isn't useful right now, because the rules don't account for a computer controlling the vehicle, thus the vehicle still requires an operator capable of taking over again at a moment's notice.
They can make and operate said cars on closed tracks/private property as much as they like, even if they lack all ability for user control(IE no wheels, gas pedal, brake pedal, etc...), outside of something along the lines of an 'emergency stop' button.
That being said, with the permits and such, they're prodding lawmakers and other regulatory bodies to allow them when they have a sufficiently functional system developed. Hell, technology from self-driving development is finding it's way into new vehicles left and right - lane following, automatic collision avoidance, etc...
I don't read AC A human right
I get either zero or infinite miles per gallon of gasoline in my TDI. Zero if I pour it in the fuel tank, attempt to drive on it and thereby quickly destroy the engine. Infinite if I get the gallon of gasoline in a jerry can and drive it around; the amount of gasoline never changes.
If by gasoline you mean petrol, then no, you won't destroy the engine. You may need new engine accessories (pipes, pumps, filters, etc) but the engine itself will be all good. A woman I dated once filled up her Golf TDi with petrol. Dealership sorted the car out in a day.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
The European commision voted for new tests this week, and they are just marginally better than the current ones.
Heavy lobbies from Germany, France and the UK are holding us back.
Only in today's issue there's talk of Europe pushing back and relaxing the new Emissions guidelines.
So really wishful thinking on part of the author. But the world does not work like that.
These fools in government really should read up on the origins of the Order of the Engineer and engineers should really grow the balls needed to tell bureaucrats to go pound sand.
And, if you didn't get it fixed, you'd go to renew your tags through your motor vehicle department only to find that your car is ineligible to be registered.
The government here in Ontario has already stated that they will require proof that the fix was applied before these cars can be re-licensed. I can only imagine many provinces and states will do the same.
"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
Expect smog check stations to be checking the version number of the software on the car via the OBD-II port and fail it if it's not been patched...
The CARB states include 38% of the US population. So the impact is substantial even if the remaining 62% are not covered. The CARB standards are going national starting with the 2016 model year, though I don't believe that includes a mandate for testing.
It's true that if you want the specific things on your list, the choices in the US are limited. Manual transmissions are not popular here, so many models are not offered with them. Station wagons are out of fashion, both because of consumer preference and because fuel mileage standards are biased in favor of crossovers rather than station wagons.
Diesel cars have also never been popular in the US. In the early years there were prejudices against them because of smoky exhaust, poor availability of fuel (most drivers don't want to have to visit a truck stop to fuel their cars), and some ill-fated attempts by American car makers to market diesel cars, notably the Oldsmobile models. More recently, diesels have suffered because of the very strict EPA standards for diesel emissions (which impose tight limits on particulate and NOx, which are problem areas for diesel), which mean that many of the diesel cars sold elsewhere in the world cannot be imported into the US without substantial modification. Conversely, the EU put strict limits on CO2 emissions (where diesels do well) so their regulations were far more friendly to diesel, and the much higher fuel prices that prevail in Europe provided a stronger incentive to buy diesel cars.
Another reason that some cars from other parts of the world are not available in the US is safety standards. Notably, the US has a much stronger requirement for bumper strength than other parts of the world, so nearly every car model from elsewhere in the world has to be modified to include more substantial bumpers. If a company does not see enough market potential for a car to justify making a special US version, the car doesn't get sold here.
Finally, very small cars have been a hard sell in the US. Some companies do not choose to import their smallest models here. Notable examples include the VW Polo and the BMW 1-series, as well as all the Japanese "city cars".
All that said, describing the US as an underdeveloped car market is an exaggeration. There are still plenty of choices, though perhaps not the ones you want. (Like you, I find the paucity of station wagons frustrating.) And the US is the second most successful market in the world for hybrid cars (in part because of economic incentives to buy them), trailing only Japan and far ahead of the EU.
Is there a large cross-section between people with mullets and VW diesels?
Good luck with your 454 project, my dad got 280K out of his before it developed a rod knock. They aren't bad motors but (understandably) not terribly high revving or fuel efficient.