Slashdot Mirror


Google-Supported CodeGirl Documentary Makes "Exclusive YouTube Premiere"

theodp writes: As part of our Made with Code and media perception initiatives," wrote YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki over at the Official Google Blog, "I'm excited that we're supporting award-winning documentary filmmaker Lesley Chilcott — of An Inconvenient Truth and Waiting for Superman [and Code.org] fame — on her next film, CodeGirl. Until November 5 Lesley's film will be available for free on YouTube, before its theatrical debut in the next few weeks." Microsoft is pretty jazzed about the movie too, as is Al Gore. Decidedly less excited about CodeGirl is film critic Inkoo Kang, who writes, "CodeGirl, a chronicle of this year's Technovation contest, is just as well-intentioned as its subject. It coasts for as long as it can on the feel-good fuel of watching smart, earnest girls talk about creating an app, but with virtually no tension, context, narrative or characterization driving the story, the documentary grows to feel like a parent describing their daughter's involvement in an international competition. The girls' achievements are impressive, but you definitely don't want to hear about them for nearly two hours.

32 of 289 comments (clear)

  1. Sheesh Dice... by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is Thursday the new Friday?

    1. Re:Sheesh Dice... by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      Well you're probably right. And seeing as how Eirc Raymond, made this post yesterday you have a right to be annoyed, if not angry. If what he made in terms of a statement is true then there is a problem, but the problem isn't men.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:Sheesh Dice... by thesandtiger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree. It's terrifying (well, more disappointing) that completely unsubstantiated claims from someone who was chatting anonymously on IRC are being taken seriously by anyone, ESPECIALLY someone who is seen as a thought leader in the OSS community, and that some idiots will latch on to this kind of weak shit as proof of their preconceptions and then begin acting on this nonsense.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    3. Re:Sheesh Dice... by Gavagai80 · · Score: 2

      Google has an obvious interest in promoting the growth of its potential workforce, and they feel there's an opportunity to do that by getting more girls coding. Is there anything wrong with that?

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    4. Re:Sheesh Dice... by russotto · · Score: 2

      I agree. It's terrifying (well, more disappointing) that completely unsubstantiated claims from someone who was chatting anonymously on IRC are being taken seriously by anyone, ESPECIALLY someone who is seen as a thought leader in the OSS community

      The source wasn't anonymous to esr; he knows who it is.

  2. Re:So Scared by bertoelcon · · Score: 2

    Comments are disabled for this video.

    Exactly as expected...

    --
    Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
  3. Film Critic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The documentary is too long. 90% of the time you see a group of girls giggling and chatting about non issues (clichees are confirmed).
    Two nerdy girls solve Rubic Cube with one hand (that's the only memorizable part for me).
    They speak about coding, but you don't see anyone really coding, they just have the laptop and type (could be chatting or emailing).
    The coding is about mobile applications - if you expect to see a diagram how things are setup, nothing.

    The documentary communicates: teenage girls can develop apps (one has to assume this as it's not really shown), even with a social agenda and not just hype something meaningless to earn money. The documentary looks at teams competing for some price to win, training to present their ideas - it's close to a meaningless reality show. Topic-wise interesting, as documentary it falls short in my eyes, all remains on the surface. All girls are treated like props, no personality of anyone is explored sufficiently, no history, too many faces, too little depth.

    A (interesting) topic cannot carry a documentary alone.

  4. This documentary is the wrong approach by Qbertino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm all for asking women to move into tech jobs - we have too little of them. But I think this documentary sends the wrong message. Girls building one-shot girlie apps isn't very flattering a proposition for women in tech.

    They should've done a really good documentary on Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper and perhaps some current day programmers doing serious and exciting work.

    I was at the Google Polymer Summit a few weeks ago and there were some young women there, some of them high-profile software developers - a length interview with those would give off a much better impression of what type of women in tech we all want. One of the ladies was on the chrome team working on the rendering and DOM engine - I can barely image what a hardcore coding job that is.

    And yes, they did look girlie and quite cute actually. Makeup, high-heels, elaborate hair-do. No problem here. The point I'm making is that they were *coding* serious stuff. You can be into cupcakes, pink pettycoats, pigtails and hello kitty and still do that.
    Heck, our male coder type digs nerf guns and is all exited about the new star wars like a nine-year old at the age of 40 - like that's anymore grown-up a pastime. ...

    I could be wrong, but I do think we have to move the coding women doing the serious stuff on to the stage - that would give off a better impression.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  5. I'm upset because it's divisive. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As a woman, I'm upset because this kind of shit is divisive.

    Until all of this "social justice" bullshit really started infecting the Internet, we were all just coders. We weren't "girl coders" or "boy coders" or "shemale coders" or "heshe coders" or "dogkin coders". We were just coders. It didn't matter if you had a penis. It didn't matter if you had a vagina. It didn't matter if you had a penis that had been surgically converted into a vagina. It didn't matter if you had a vagina that had been surgically converted into a penis. After all, genitals have absolutely nothing to do with computer programming. Nothing at all!

    We used to be focused on the code, and only the code. But now thanks to the "social justice" wieners, we've been unnecessarily divided into these artificial groupings based on the flesh between our legs, or our sexual preferences, or our skin color, or some other irrelevant criteria.

    Let me repeat, GENITALS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH COMPUTER PROGRAMMING. NOTHING AT ALL!

    By the way, I'm a woman. Unlike many of the so-called "women" of the "social justice" movement, I was actually born a woman. I want us to return to the days where the focus was on the code, and just the code. Things were much more equitable then!

    1. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by Shortguy881 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh, are you so wrong. I use my penis as a third hand, effectively typing faster than any girl could.

      --
      Brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.
    2. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      as a third hand

      Let me guess: You use EMACS.

    3. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by fche · · Score: 2, Informative

      "It's not dividing anyone."

      Oh please. The first blaring announcement in the documentary is a whine about how "fewer large companies are run by women than by men named John".

    4. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "The goal is to show girls writing code and enjoying it, in order to demonstrate to other girls that coding can be enjoyable and rewarding and interesting"

      Way to miss the point. The point is that there is no need to do that. Programming is gender-agnostic, race-agnostic, age-agnostic. A movie that showed boys writing code and enjoying it can also demonstrate to BOTH boys and girls that coding can be enjoyable. Why are you suggesting that girls need to see other girls in order to understand that? That is very sexist and microaggresive behavior.

    5. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by wcrowe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      " It doesn't even touch on issues like sexism..."

      The very first moments of the film open with the statement that there are fewer female CEOs than there are male CEOs named John. The film literally starts with a divisive claim of sexism. The film is an insult to the many female coders I have known in my 30 years of experience.

      --
      Proverbs 21:19
    6. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The real tragedy is that we are only promoting the really nice jobs to women. Even though no one was ever stopping women from being engineers, politicians, coders, scientists, etc. Plenty of 'not so nice' jobs are male dominated, but no one cares. Where are the female coal miners, oil rig workers, lumberjacks, and commercial fishers?

      More women take higher education, and more women graduate from it. There are also way more scholarships and grants for women. Equality of outcome is bogus. We need equality of opportunity. Right now, women are special so they get more opportunities. Anyone who points this out gets labeled a misogynist.

    7. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      experience gender dysphoria due to their body not matching what their brain perceives it should be

      Yes, but the salient point is that absent a birth defect or genetic mutation, the body is not what is broken. The body is fine. The issue is with the brain, and I've never seen any evidence of any "Trans" person having a brain which is physically at odds with the body. The logical conclusion is that the dysphoria is primarily psychological in nature, not physiological. A rational person would conclude that any treatment of such a condition would also be based on psychology, and that mutilating the body in an attempt to appear to be of the other gender is not a healthy course of treatment.

      there's no need to use scare quotes or imply that they're not real men/women

      Those are not scare quotes. Those quotes are used to indicate that the person writing the post does not agree with the contextual definition of the word the parent was using.
      Despite what many in the GLBT movement would like to believe, Gender and Sex are indeed the same thing. Gender Identity is not the same thing as gender, but all of our words which describe gender are based on the biological Sex of an individual.

      Maybe someday medical science will find a way to actually allow a full biological transformation. But there is no such process, and what we have today is at best a piss-poor attempt to mimic the biology of the other sex, and is almost completely cosmetic in nature.
      Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner is not a Woman. He is a man, who has had surgeries and hormone therapy so that his body vaguely resembles that of a female. He chooses to identify himself as a female, and personally I have no problem with that. But I am under no obligation to contribute to his personal delusions just like I was under no requirement to call Prince "The Artist" during his "change name to a symbol" years, and just like I'm under no obligation to treat this guy as if he was really a reptile: http://www.thelizardman.com/

    8. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by LaurenCates · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hey, I'm a woman, and I'm feeling the same frustration.

      Please don't trot out the MRA strawman* here. Or shall I go with the vernacular and say that you're mansplaining?

      (*This by the way is why I have problems with gender-based identity politics characterizations: either MRAs are losers that mommy didn't love enough but are powerful enough to be the invisible hand of society that holds women back, or women are strong and capable until they're called "bossy", and then they get crushed back to non-existence.)

      --
      Some people don't believe in fairies. I don't believe in The Patriarchy.
    9. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by Oligonicella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because if it were seen as just a fact by the filmmakers and devoid of sexism, the ratio of male CEOs to female is of no relevance to women in coding and wouldn't even be in the film, much less its opening moments.

      Why not the ratio of males to females in elephant caretakers?

    10. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by Coren22 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So you may have to start asking more uncomfortable questions as to why.

      Despite what the Social Justice crowd will have you think, we already know the reasons why. Women and Men are not identical! Women prefer socialization on average, Men prefer isolation on average. This leads to women preferring careers with socialization, while men are led to careers with less socialization. STEM careers for the most part are isolated jobs. Programming for the most part is sitting in front of a computer typing away, women are not drawn to this, they for the most part prefer socialization to isolation. BUT, and this is important, why does gender matter at all in any job? Are there tons of women being prevented from working in STEM, no. Just as there aren't tons of men being prevented from entering the nursing field. People choose the jobs that they want to do, trying to force people into jobs they don't want will never make them happy.

      Focusing on people's sex is sexism, therefore the whole social justice movement is sexist at its heart. Normal people don't focus so strongly on other people's sex, companies hire the best person for a job, why would they not hire a woman if she fit the job? Companies aren't out to discriminate against anyone, they are out to find the best person for the job, not handicap themselves by focusing on only certain types of people.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    11. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by s.petry · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But still they lag in Engineering and CS. I don't think it's the case that most ought not or couldn't enjoy it, but clearly they've demonstrated some preferences. So you may have to start asking more uncomfortable questions as to why.

      What complete horse shit. There are no barriers to entry in any job field for women. In fact today we have women getting jobs because of the qualifier "woman".

      For 40 years women have been receiving preferential treatment in Education. Women receive more funding, more scholarships, and have been receiving far more degrees than men because of Gender, yet people continue to bleat how "men are biased" because that's what people tell them. It is really not that hard to check facts. As a single and simple example here is a list of available scholarships. "Men" doing anything becomes "patriarchy" and evil so we can't.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    12. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by Sperbels · · Score: 4, Funny

      I use my penis as a third hand

      Londo Mollari? Is that you?

    13. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, but the salient point is that absent a birth defect or genetic mutation, the body is not what is broken. The body is fine. The issue is with the brain, and I've never seen any evidence of any "Trans" person having a brain which is physically at odds with the body.

      If you haven't seen evidence, maybe you haven't looked too hard, or have been looking in the wrong places (confirmation bias)? As just one example of how genes and the uterine environment combine to contribute to being transsexual, please consider this: 90% of the population are right-handed, but the majority of transsexuals are lefties. This is relatively old news for anyone who bothered to look, but it agrees with studies that show a difference in the ratio of the lengths of the 2nd and 4th finger (2d-4d ratio) where M2F women have ratios similar to genetic women instead of genetic men, and that one structure of the brain more closely resembles that of our target, rather than birth, sex. Both of those are caused by genes expressing themselves differently, and the 2d/4d ratio is genes expressing themselves under hormonal effects in the uterine environment. So, I hope you can see why we say we're "born that way, and with all the problems it brings, it's certainly not a choice unless you are extremely masochistic.

      Given that it has its basis on genes and epigenetics, why not consider the surgeries as corrective, not mutilation?

      So, not a delusion, not a psychological disease, but a variant of human biology. And as time goes on, the evidence continues to accumulate that this has been the case for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    14. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      Why not the ratio of males to females in elephant caretakers?

      Because most women will avoid that sort of job. Oops, made a hateful sexist statement because I imply that women are discouraged from that job.

      Let me recalibrate: Most women are smart enough to avoid that sort if job. Still obviously a sexist statement, but one that SJWs would approve of.

      The hypocrisy of SJWs escapes them - but then again, it's about ego, not common sense.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    15. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by thoromyr · · Score: 2

      You took the quote out of context. As you have demonstrated substantial ability in reading and writing I suspect that you simply keyed in on some particular phrasing and skimmed/did not really read the rest. In other words, it got under your skin. Relax. While you may or may not agree with each other, you are arguing with a point that wasn't being made.

    16. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by LaurenCates · · Score: 2

      Regarding your contention of MRAs: So, what you're saying is that those sexists that are holding women back in careers, that are enforcing the wage gap and are keeping women out of tech and C-suites, and squashing them at the sprout level by calling them "bossy", are you saying they haven't got that so-called "MRA mindset"?

      Because to have it explained by anyone who shouts "MRA!" at even the vaguest criticism of women/women's initiatives, it seems as if both the sexists at the top and the neckbeards at the bottom don't like it when the wimminz get their hands on the boys' toys and would very much like to shove them back into the kitchen by any means necessary.

      If someone is going to whinge on about MRA-type thinking and ignore the fact that the assertion of sexism in the workplace is driven by the same mentality (at least according to feminist theory), your line of thinking is either willfully ignorant or disingenuous.

      Regarding your second claim: yes, that happens, but keep in mind that a campaign was started last year by very famous (and, ironically, very successful) women to ban the word "bossy" because it is apparently (as the campaign itself said) a "squasher". Emma Watson also in her initial He for She speech to the UN made it clear that women (herself included) were plagued by such things. Another recent incident involved Anita Sarkeesian going to the UN Women group and said that people telling her "You Suck" online is a campaign of "cyber violence", specifically against women.

      Hell, more than one poster here on Slashdot has jumped to my defense if an AC decides to post "tits or gtfo" at me, claiming Slashdot isn't "safe for women".

      Like fuck it isn't. And anyone who claims otherwise has never been the victim of real, true violence.

      So, are you going to assert that there isn't at least an idea being passed around that women get hurt by words and therefore we shouldn't use them? (My belief is that it's one of those things a governing body is more than happy to expound upon as a means to ending privacy online..."end anonymity for the sake of women!")

      Point I was making is that these strawmen characterizations are often passed around, even here on Slashdot, to the point where people seem to not even mind so much that they make little sense, they're often contradictory, but yet we're more than happy to tar and feather people with them instead of judging individuals as individuals.

      Thus my continual annoyance when people use "MRA" as an insult.

      --
      Some people don't believe in fairies. I don't believe in The Patriarchy.
    17. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      No. If there's a Y chromosome in there, the sex is male. It could be they have a disorder with a biological basis, but the sex is still male. Those 'researchers' are likely political activists first, scientists second. They're the first cause for the 'gender' self assignment craze.

    18. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      I completely agree it's divisive. It's a total non sequitur, gratuitously thrown in to provoke. Trying to encourage girls and women to code has nothing to do with heading a large corporation. They're completely different skill sets, with different career paths. The people running the corporations aren't going to write code - they're going to hire someone else to because it costs less in terms of dollars per hour of salary worked. Why would they want to know how to code when they can hire a specialist who can do the job better and faster.

      My way of dealing with it was to make fun of it :-) Because it's not just divisive, it's stupid.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    19. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by goose-incarnated · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Women's brains and men's brains are not the same.

      This statement is at odds with your usual thoughts on the matter. Your posting history has a lot of "there is no reason for any task to be more desirable to one gender over the other" type of posts.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    20. Re:I'm upset because it's divisive. by goose-incarnated · · Score: 2

      Men and women are different, but we know (because we asked) that women do want to go into CS. It's a myth that women are just not suited to it. There is also no evidence that women lack the intelligence or ability to think logically.

      I agree that we know that women don't want to go into CS, BUT it's a big leap of faith t assume that the reason is due to your particular belief system. Also, I, and all of the other egalitarian, never made the claim about female intelligence. IOW we never claim that women lack the ability only that they find solo activities less desirable.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
  6. Your communist is showing by s.petry · · Score: 2

    You keep repeating the same exact propaganda over and over in different posts, and anyone doing even a cursory study of recent history should be able to tell you how wrong you are. Men did not come back and just take those jobs away. Women were not working because the technology you take for granted did not exist. Sure, the advent of canned vegetables was there but we had no cheap restaurants or fast food. There were no good disposable diapers, cheap baby formula, fast food restaurants, cheap clothing, etc.. etc.. etc... Good grief man, read a damn book or something! Go look up the growth and dominance of fast food. It did not start until the 70s, and not the early 70s either.

    Pizza when I was a kid cost as much as a week of groceries. We had 1 "fast food" place when I was in elementary school called "Burger Chef" and it was expensive too. Mom sewed and knitted because clothing was expensive. People had cloth diaper services because disposable diapers were expensive, bulky, and seen as wasteful. The Grocery store was mostly fruits and vegetables, with a whopping 3 or 4 flavors of instant cereal which people thought was for either the most wealthy or most destitute.

    Women worked because their families were poor and they needed the income. You would hear things like "That poor lady has to work because her husband can't make a good enough living to support his family." "Going to work" was not a sign of status or sign of success by any stretch of the imagination. You are brainwashed into believing not just a reality that does not exist, but that living your life serving someone else is "success".

    Think really hard about how you respond, if you believe you can possibly argue your delusion. Facts, something that certain people hate, are essential to a good debate.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  7. Problem specific to certain areas? by phorm · · Score: 2

    When it comes down to the "women in tech" (not just coders) issue, I wonder if perhaps it's also partially constrained by area or market. Where I work, yes we do have somewhat more men in a sysadmin type role. However - in this and many of my previous jobs - female presence in management (and more specifically management of technical types) is actually fairly strong.

    I actually had a short discussion with a female co-worker (also in IT, and she kicks ass) regarding the choice of the current Canadian government to deliberately fill cabinet to be "gender balanced". This is despite there being more male MP's etc. Basically, it's a kick in the head to the women who *DO* work hard and get their roles based on ability. I'm not saying that women should put up with sexism, unwanted advances, harassment, etc in the workplace, but whether you dimple or you dangle in the end it should be able ability and skills.

  8. Re:Dead end path for women by tehcyder · · Score: 2

    I imagine most men in IT would be glad of a sexual harassment suit. It would be almost like having a girlfriend..

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it