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Google Engineer Warns Against Perils of Buying Cheap, Third-Party USB-C Cables (hothardware.com)
MojoKid writes: A USB-C cable is just a cable. Or is it? Google engineer Benson Leung noted today that it's definitely not the case. Leung and his teammates at Google work inside of the Chromebook ecosystem, and as such, they've had lots of hands-on experience with USB-C cables. The Chromebook Pixel remains one of the very few notebooks on the market that directly supports USB-C. Nonetheless, in his experience, not all cables are built alike, and in some cases, cheap out-of-spec cables could potentially cause damage to your device. It's such a big problem, in fact, that Leung began buying cables off of Amazon and leaving his feedback on each one. Ultimately, what the problem boils down to is that some of the specifications in a cable may be not well controlled. He notes that in some bad cables, resistor values are incorrect, throwing off power specs wildly — 3A vs 2A in one example.
which is why i only buy Gold plated, oxygen free, twisted pair, sheathed Monster cables for $99.99 each. I can see the difference
I bought a few packs of USB-C male and female connectors from China (to use for a non-USB application) and they were really junk. Looked like USB-C but the tolerances were terrible. Too soon for competitive quality forces to have kicked in, I suppose, but they didn't just make these bad connectors to annoy me - they must be out there in the wild too.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
If it saves a buck, who cares if it might kill someone?
How am I sure they have not done that yet?
OMG, how am I sure the they != us, I mean us by proxy, the NSA ??
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
A long while back, when I was a systems integrator, we had problems with customers buying residential modems and low grade cables, and then getting voltage problems. Proper RFI grounded systems with commercial grade cables solved all of the issues.
Don't cut costs on things that are going to be in use for a decade, it almost always backfires.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
The Chromebook Pixel remains one of the very few notebooks on the market that directly supports USB-C.
Much like how RC Cola remains one of the very few brand-name colas on the market...
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Whenever a USB cable is used for charging, it's very easy to see why cheap cables are cheap.
A quest for a cable that can support full 1.2A charging, not to mention current generation fast-charging, can be a long and frustrating one. I prefer my chargers to have 1.8m cables instead of manufacturer-standard 1m, and it took a lot of tries to find one that doesn't suck.
USB-C could have been such an awesome standard. But when I read about all the possible feature variations (http://www.kitguru.net/desktop-pc/anton-shilov/not-all-usb-type-c-ports-are-equal-nine-implementations-of-usb-c-incoming/), I can only shake my head. While it's very cool, especially with integrated thunderbolt support, the idea of splitting it into different versions is just gonna cause nightmares.
We're going to enter an age where people tear their hair out because everyone has the same port, but one person can do one thing with it but another person cannot. The whole HDMI versions confusion is gonna look tame compared to the confusion USB C will cause.
This makes little sense. Cables should be just cables. If the amount of current needs to be negotiated with resistors, then the resistors should be put inside the devices that provide or require current.
But when talking about cheap, we (as consumers) kind of get what we pay for. Most consumers look for the cheapest they can find, sellers respond to that by buying from manufacturers that can make products the cheapest, and yes in that process, often some corners are cut. Surprise surprise.
Biggest problem there isn't that cheap crap on the market, after all: buyers can choose. But sometimes that cheap crap is so ubiquitous, that manufacturers who make better stuff get squeezed out of the market. Such that after a while, it becomes almost impossible to find better product even if you're willing to pay for it. That's apart from the problem of determining what's crap and what isn't - sometimes there's no relation with price at all.
With their own cheap cables that are in spec. Cables should really not be that expensive. Google charges $20 for a USB-C cable. Come on!
-- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
I took a picture of my USB cable and showed it to an expert and he just said "I'll show you later". I don't get it.
Benson is a pretty fantastic engineer. He dots the i's and crosses the t's, which is somewhat rare these days.
I hope Puneet (if Puneet is still his manager, as he was Benson's and mine, when I worked with Benson) is having Google pay for the cables he's buying, instead of Benson paying for them out of pocket.
In any case, definitely take his Amazon reviews to heart: he knows what the hell he is doing, and he knows which end is the probe and which end goes in the meter. If he says a cable sucks, it sucks, and if he says it's good, it's good.
Seems to me that it would be a faulty design that requires a 'cable' to need any electronics at all.
Just like anything with a jack, you can't really trust anything that may get plugged into it.
Wires, wrapping, and shielding, sure. Electronics (caps, resistors, etc.) should be in the devices themselves, and devices when encountering bad cables should always fail 'safe'.
This is exactly why I think phones are such a huge step backwards as far as personal computing goes. Even though in theory you own it, you basically don't.
You can't install/uninstall software, configure the device, etc., etc. as you see fit. Many phones are cluttered with software/services you may or may not want, the carriers feel free to do things such as the MDM mentioned above, and many of the apps can be filled with security/privacy issues.
(I'm amazed at the HUGE laundry list of areas on my phone that many simple apps want access to, and that I know damn well they don't need/don't have anything to do w/ the app's purpose. )
At least my PC has the illusion I'm in control (and using Linux I do feel this is more than an illusion), and that I can configure it as I see fit.
I frankly don't see the appeal of smart phones at all: You are locked in, everything you do is tracked/reported on/etc., and you have to pay for the privilege.
Anyone know how Monoprice USB cables rate? In the past, I felt their products were of decent quality while being budget friendly.
Opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.
I worked on the first usb 3.0's for Apple. Same problem. We ended up buying nearly every different cable we could find and doing a tolerance study. Things varied so widely that the mouse i was using on my workstation was out of spec! The standards are CRAP. INTENTIONALLY. The mechanical tolerance standards read: for example the height of the internal spring contacts like 3mm max. no...minimum? pretty sure this thing ain't gonna work if the contacts don't...you know...touch anything. I had an internew w/ some asshat at Tyco - (they also make connectors) When i mentioned that the USB standards are crap, he said "oh yeah. we do that too. intentionally. We spend a lot of time developing the connectors to work properly and then because we HAVE to open source the standard, we'll obfuscate things such that we can gain a competitive advantage. Our cables and connectors work out of the box, or other companies are going to have to spend a couple months figuring things out w/ reliability testing before they can release a quality package. I about walked out of the interview at that point. Who signs their name to something that is intentionally a POS?? Speaking w/ the EE's at Apple, the signal integrity was written just as bad as the mechanical. Components of the signal integrity that would be controlled separately by the receptacle were lumped in with the cable. Just all junk. According to one guy Intel outsourced the design of the standard to india/china and just accepted the crap they gave them (because intel doesn't have like ... any mechanical engineers working there)
J
so with apple using a non apple cable / adapters voids warranty.
Also the new mac pro will only have USB-C ports and X2 Ethernet. Ships with no adapters.
For just $29 add a USB-C to USB 2.0 / 3.0 / 3.1 adapter.
For just $39 add a USB-C / TB 3.0 to TB 2.0 adapter.
For just $29 add a USB-C / DP mode to HDMI 1.4 (dp passive mode)
For just $49 add a USB-C / DP mode to HDMI 2.0 / 4k (dp active mode)
For just $19 add a USB-C to mini DP (no TB) adapter.
For just $29 add a USB-C / TB 3.0 to firewire 800 adapter
For just $29 add a USB-C to Ethernet adapter
For just $49 add a USB-C / TB 3.0 to Ethernet adapter
well, we wouldnt have to buy third party cables if google actually gave us cables with the products we buy. i got myself a nexus 5x when it came out. it came with 1 3 ft usb-c to usb-c cable and no adapter to normal usb. i couldnt even plug the damned thing into my computer until the cables i ordered off amazon got here.
so with apple using a non apple cable / adapters voids warranty.
And where did you read that?
Also the new mac pro will only have USB-C ports and X2 Ethernet. Ships with no adapters.
Why is it you always post factually incorrect things about Apple products, especially in a post that is not about Apple. First of all, the new Mac Pro has no USB-C ports. It has 4 USB 3.0 ports. Second, it does not have "only" USB and Ethernet. It has 4 USB 3.0, 6 Thunderbolt 2 ports, 1 HDMI port, 1 digital out/ analog line out port, 1 headphone port. Essentially half your list of adapters is not required.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Here's the list of cables that he tested, from the TFA. There are ten of them
http://amzn.to/1MlG3g3
I think he may have been confusing it with the macbook non-pro, which has been criticized for a severe lack of ports - a consequence of Apple's quest to make it as thin and light as possible.
A decade or so ago the company I worked at had to repeatedly advise customers to use FTDI or Silicon Labs based USB-serial converters with our products. It got to the point that it was the first question on the tech support script. The cheaper converters based on Prolific chipsets were incredibly unreliable but customers kept buying them because on ebay one converter appears much the same as another.
A decade or so ago the company I worked at had to repeatedly advise customers to use FTDI or Silicon Labs based USB-serial converters with our products. It got to the point that it was the first question on the tech support script. The cheaper converters based on Prolific chipsets were incredibly unreliable but customers kept buying them because on ebay one converter appears much the same as another.
There were a lot of counterfeit prolifics out there, so it isn't specifically a prolific problem. It's kind of like blaming Apple for the cheap fake iphone chargers.
But yeah, if you can get a USB-Serial converter for 3 bucks, it might not be too good.
I use FTDI mostly now, but have a few of the real prolifics setting around and in use. Including an ancient one that was used for a palm device, and still works in Linux even though Windows doesn't support it at all any more.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Was talking about the upcoming new mac pro and how bad it may be.
I've never had any problems with cheap USB A or B cables.
On the other hand, I bought a cheap iphone cable on ebay that completely destroyed my iphone5. Not good.
Moral of the story? It's probably best to stay away from cheap cables.
Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
The "upcoming" Mac Pro which has no official specs from Apple and is based entirely on rumors that you cherry picked? But you're going to complaining about these specs based on unsubstantiated rumors you've read somewhere by someone? Do you have that much hate for Apple?
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
No he's complaining about the next Mac Pro which Apple has not shown nor released. So everything that is wrong with it is entirely based on rumors of what Apple might release.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
"APK doesn't think that DNS servers are worth running and seems to believe that somehow Microsoft Active Directory can run without DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015 @12:58PM (#50811615)
Where'd I say AD will run minus DNS Coren22? I've said AD = internal network DNS dependent as far back as 2007 http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...
(Searching this in BOLD "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers!" referring to OpenDNS suggestions for those using AD stupid in the POSTS BEFORE IT in my security guides for users (geared to stand alone single machines no less), & right there on that page proves it stupid - so even if you posted as myself someplace here on /. "impersonating me", I have your ass NOW, shithead!)
I've also stated MANY TIMES I use remote DNS in OpenDNS @ home (but not @ work on AD networks + exchange/outlook: Free OpenDNS model doesn't work with AD dependent Exchange + Outlook specifically you lying little imbecile).
I also don't hardcode in "every site there is under the sun" is why, so I have to use DNS, but OpenDNS & rarely.
I also RARELY MISS A LOOKUP since I put where I spend a good 95++% of my time online in my favorite sites into hosts @ the TOP of hosts for utmost LOCAL FASTER RESOLUTION SPEEDS and more reliability vs. Open DNS (not OpenDNS) resolvers being abused, Kaminsky redirect poisoned DNS servers (of which 99.999% of ISP DNS are not proofed against to this very day even though a patch exists which OpenDNS uses), rogue DNS servers, and yes ROUTERS with bushwhacked by malware DNS settings (happening a LOT lately).
Hardcodes in hosts are faster than remote DNS, waste less resources than local dns in power, cpu cycles, RAM, & other I/O by FAR considering ALL THE PARTS of such a setup in programs, data, I/O, & power (especially if setup as a separate machine).
APK
P.S.=> You're a disgusting liar... apk
YOU say "hosts=bad" (but they add security, speed, & reliability) & bitch on admin privelege to UPDATE vs. threats:
"So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)
Hypocrite - You use admin priv admitting it
&
How else can I programmatically update hosts minus it in Windows?
---
"Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)
You FINALLY later admit there's no other way!
FACT:
Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware (best one) DEMANDS you use admin privelege (you saying it's "bad" too?) it can't do its job fully otherwise, like many security tools do!
---
Aryeh Goretsky NOD32/ESET says hosts = good security-> http://it.slashdot.org/comment...
Oliver Day (Symantec) does-> http://www.securityfocus.com/c...
MalwareBytes' hpHosts hosts & recommends my APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-2 32/64-bit-> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...
---
* HOW MANY SECURITY PROS DO I NEED TO KNOCK THE CHOCOLATE OUTTA YOU?
---
Those security pros INCLUDE me: I work w/ guys from malwarebytes' hpHosts on a regular basis!
I've professionally worked for decades as a combined domain-wide network admin & software engineer since 1994 (Even showing you HOW to migrate a hosts across an enterprise-> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )
I've also been securing computers + WRITING GUIDES using CIS Tool (who took fixes from me http://slashdot.org/comments.p... - bonus) http://www.bing.com/search?q=%...
You told me you learn from guides?
I write good ones that MILLIONS USE & was PAID FOR IT http://pcpitstop.com/news/winn...
+ WARES TO PROTECT USERS that are endorsed & hosted by security pros -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...
You did all that? No!
(& that's ONLY a SMALL part of what I could put out)
APK
P.S.=> You're all TALK -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & a "ne'er-do-well" in security... apk
"I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like it is marked as malware. Good luck getting that removed." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)
False positive: I've wrote 'em long ago, no response vs. 60++ REPUTABLE sources (not nobodies) below that fries you Coren22!
Is that your fake site for more lies Coren22?
Lying about me LIKE YOU DID HERE punk -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ??
---
MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...
&
It's safe proven by 57 antivirus programs recently in BOTH its 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...
+
Its 32-bit model too https://www.virustotal.com/en/...
More "SALT IN YOUR WOUNDS" -> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...
APK
P.S.=> /.'ers say my work is good too:
"his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)
"I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)
"APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)
"his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)
"APK doesn't think that DNS servers are worth running and seems to believe that somehow Microsoft Active Directory can run without DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015 @12:58PM (#50811615)
Where'd I say AD will run minus DNS Coren22? I've said AD = internal network DNS dependent as far back as 2007 http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...
(Searching this in BOLD "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers!" referring to OpenDNS suggestions for those using AD stupid in the POSTS BEFORE IT in my security guides for users (geared to stand alone single machines no less), & right there on that page proves it stupid - so even if you posted as myself someplace here on /. "impersonating me", I have your ass NOW, shithead!)
I've also stated MANY TIMES I use remote DNS in OpenDNS @ home (but not @ work on AD networks + exchange/outlook: Free OpenDNS model doesn't work with AD dependent Exchange + Outlook specifically you lying little imbecile).
I also don't hardcode in "every site there is under the sun" is why, so I have to use DNS, but OpenDNS & rarely.
I also RARELY MISS A LOOKUP since I put where I spend a good 95++% of my time online in my favorite sites into hosts @ the TOP of hosts for utmost LOCAL FASTER RESOLUTION SPEEDS and more reliability vs. Open DNS (not OpenDNS) resolvers being abused, Kaminsky redirect poisoned DNS servers (of which 99.999% of ISP DNS are not proofed against to this very day even though a patch exists which OpenDNS uses), rogue DNS servers, and yes ROUTERS with bushwhacked by malware DNS settings (happening a LOT lately).
Hardcodes in hosts are faster than remote DNS, waste less resources than local dns in power, cpu cycles, RAM, & other I/O by FAR considering ALL THE PARTS of such a setup in programs, data, I/O, & power (especially if setup as a separate machine).
APK
P.S.=> You're a disgusting liar... apk
YOU say "hosts=bad" (but they add security, speed, & reliability) & bitch on admin privelege to UPDATE vs. threats:
"So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)
Hypocrite - You use admin priv admitting it
&
How else can I programmatically update hosts minus it in Windows?
---
"Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)
You FINALLY later admit there's no other way!
FACT:
Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware (best one) DEMANDS you use admin privelege (you saying it's "bad" too?) it can't do its job fully otherwise, like many security tools do!
---
Aryeh Goretsky NOD32/ESET says hosts = good security-> http://it.slashdot.org/comment...
Oliver Day (Symantec) does-> http://www.securityfocus.com/c...
MalwareBytes' hpHosts hosts & recommends my APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-2 32/64-bit-> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...
---
* HOW MANY SECURITY PROS DO I NEED TO KNOCK THE CHOCOLATE OUTTA YOU?
---
Those security pros INCLUDE me: I work w/ guys from malwarebytes' hpHosts on a regular basis!
I've professionally worked for decades as a combined domain-wide network admin & software engineer since 1994 (Even showing you HOW to migrate a hosts across an enterprise-> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )
I've also been securing computers + WRITING GUIDES using CIS Tool (who took fixes from me http://slashdot.org/comments.p... - bonus) http://www.bing.com/search?q=%...
You told me you learn from guides?
I write good ones that MILLIONS USE & was PAID FOR IT http://pcpitstop.com/news/winn...
+ WARES TO PROTECT USERS that are endorsed & hosted by security pros -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...
You did all that? No!
(& that's ONLY a SMALL part of what I could put out)
APK
P.S.=> You're all TALK -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & a "ne'er-do-well" in security... apk
"I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like it is marked as malware. Good luck getting that removed." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)
False positive: I've wrote 'em long ago, no response vs. 60++ REPUTABLE sources (not nobodies) below that fries you Coren22!
Is that your fake site for more lies Coren22?
Lying about me LIKE YOU DID HERE punk -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ??
---
MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...
&
It's safe proven by 57 antivirus programs recently in BOTH its 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...
+
Its 32-bit model too https://www.virustotal.com/en/...
More "SALT IN YOUR WOUNDS" -> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...
APK
P.S.=> /.'ers say my work is good too:
"his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)
"I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)
"APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)
"his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)
There is some info in the one of files as part of a new mac os update pointing to a 10 usb-c port mac. With a name that is like the mac pro out now.
Again that is based on speculation of what Apple may or may not release. Apple might have tested El Capitan on a 10 USB port machine and didn't remove the file. Also by your own post you said Apple would have X2 Ethernet yet you claim you need an Ethernet adapter. Why in the world would you need one?
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Well some of there other systems cut the Ethernet port to save room so we sell them for that system and the template add's it to all systems with usb-c.
Also what if you need more then 2 ports?
And we may even sell 10G Ethernet adapters or build them in.
Well some of there other systems cut the Ethernet port to save room so we sell them for that system and the template add's it to all systems with usb-c.
So you're complaining about other systems do when talking about a Mac Pro? Really?
Also what if you need more then 2 ports?
1) That's what TB is for. 2) A Mac Pro is not designed to be a router; it is designed to be a workstation. 3) If you need more than 2, you need a server or a switch not a workstation.
And we may even sell 10G Ethernet adapters or build them in.
For what purpose does a creative need 10G ethernet? Backbone routers and switches need it but a workstation? Bearing in mind most home and corporate networks support 1G Ethernet at best. Even those that have installed Cat6, the max length is 55m as opposed to 100m for 1G. For those networks that are based on Cat5, good luck trying to get 10G to work.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.