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Even the CEO's Job Is Susceptible To Automation, McKinsey Report Says (networkworld.com)

colinneagle sends word that according to a new report it's not just blue collar workers who need to be concerned about being replaced with a robot, top execs should be worried too. According to Network World: "Global management consultants McKinsey and Company said in a recent report that many of the tasks that a CEO performs could be taken over by machines. Those redundant tasks include 'analyzing reports and data to inform operational decisions; preparing staff assignments; and reviewing status reports,' the report says. This potential for automation in the executive suite is in contrast to 'lower-wage occupations such as home health aides, landscapers, and maintenance workers,' the report says. Those jobs aren't as suitable for automation, according to the report. The technology has not advanced enough."

176 comments

  1. There will still be CEOs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Who is the board going to scapegoat? Anyway, one of these AI engines told my previous employer that they needed to hire thousands of workers in late 2009, and fast. New employees had a long training time for this specific job before they could actually do work. They proceeded to ignore the AI and did not hire due to the "economic climate". Well, they were caught with their pants down when older workers predictably retired and the economy started recovering. I'll take the Brawndo AI CEO over a real CEO any day, at least for large corporations.

    1. Re:There will still be CEOs by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      The value of a CEO (at least, a good one anyways) is strategy. IMO a really solid example of a good CEO right now is T-Mobile's John Legere. Sure he may come off as a clown to some, but you can't argue against his results. Not only is the quality of their network surging to new levels, but they've turned a long streak of customer losses into a long streak of even bigger customer gains.

      And for what it's worth, often engaging in trolling myself I really loved his "You mad bro?" tweet at the Sprint CEO after that CEO expressed rage, and speak of which, Sprint's CEO is the highest paid wireless company CEO by far, and is driving the worst results anyways.

    2. Re:There will still be CEOs by umghhh · · Score: 1

      You seriously mean that for this we need an a robotic overlords? Wow.

    3. Re:There will still be CEOs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      These morons are just making shit up now to justify their own jobs.

      "Global management consultants" is synonymous with shysters. The people that should lose their jobs are CEOs that listen to these idiots.

    4. Re:There will still be CEOs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I've often suggested offshoring our CEOs. After all, there must be plenty of good CEOs in places such as India, just like there are plenty of good code jockeys there, right? I don't see automating the CEO job for a while yet. Today, at least with multinational corporations, you still need a person to go rub shoulders with the local warlords or prime ministers in order to handle the requisite "processing fees". Computers and robots don't yet handle bribes with as much aplomb as meatspace CEOs do. But let's get some offshored CEOs and save a bundle of money.

    5. Re:There will still be CEOs by Rei · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My father has long worked in a variety of CEO and president roles for different large companies, on the very fields that this software is designed to optimize. My thoughts?

      1) This is nothing new. It's called operations research/operations management, and it's been around for a long time.
      2) Except for in perhaps small companies, CEOs don't do this themselves. They direct the team of experts that manage the system.
      3) The systems don't run themselves. They require significant setup, maintenance, and ongoing improvement. In particular the ever-changing data streams that can play a role need to be worked into the model. And they're often based on very complex issues that require specialist understanding.

      These are tools that help you make the right decision. They're not people. People are the ones who run the tools.

      --
      The yellowcake is a lie.
    6. Re:There will still be CEOs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM Watson will soon be able to out strategise a human CEO no problem - its already good with financials.

    7. Re:There will still be CEOs by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Nah. Every "good" CEO I've worked with sucked at strategy. The "good" CEOs are the ones that network and build relationships. And be a good COO for the times they feel like interfering with things they shouldn't. A better CEO wouldn't play COO for the stuff they feel like, but I've never met a single one of those. The "good" ones are more spokespeople, and don't need hourly catch-ups with everyone in the company to make sure it's running the way they'd like.

    8. Re: There will still be CEOs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, something less complex than an ant brain will outdo humans.

      you americans are really an idiot race.

    9. Re: There will still be CEOs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      generally speaking, management consultants provide an important service: they can speak truth to power. most corporate employees had a virtual brain amputation. so needed change cannot come from inside. external consultants must provide it.

      but this concrete example is a display of stupidity. the exception proving the rule.

    10. Re:There will still be CEOs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > People are the ones who run the tools.

      But that's the whole point. You don't need a CEO. You just need people to run the CEO tools.

    11. Re: There will still be CEOs by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      You don't need an ant brain.
      Ant brains have to deal with a whole lot of stuff (moving six legs in coordinated fashions), maintaining breathing and circulation, digestion etc. etc. etc. that a computer AI has no need for.
      About 99% of what an ANT brain is spent on are things that an AI won't ever have to do.

      With humans that scale goes up because the systems that need to be managed are far, far more complex. Bipedalism makes ballance a key process - that's almost entirely automated, processing all those sensory inputs into useful categories, managing all those complex life systems.
      Only a tiny fraction of the brain is used for actually thinking things - the rest is busy maintaining the container. An AI has no need for any of that, even processing the inputs happen before they get to it. That's why we can match human image and speech recognition with AI systems far simpler than a human brain.
      AIs are specialised to learn a given set of tasks, they only NEED enough complexity to achieve that specific task.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    12. Re: There will still be CEOs by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      On top of all of that, synthetic brains are much better at working with numbers, they can outperform any brain at arithmetic hands down, which is what business analysis is.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    13. Re:There will still be CEOs by Rei · · Score: 1

      A CEO is... wait for it... a person.

      The CEO represents the highest level of strategy. For example, if their models led them wrong in regards to a particular decision: why did the models lead them wrong? What did they miss? What additional data could we have provided them or what refined formulas could we have used so that it would have helped us account for this better? How can we get that data? What sort of processes can we set up to prevent similar instances from occurring in the future?

      Computers can crunch the numbers, but they have no clue what the numbers mean. They just take the raw datapoints you give them and the formulas you gave them for how the datapoints interplay, and give you the output that provides the most profit. They don't understand at all what the datapoints mean, what the formulas mean, when the significance of the data or formulas has changed, when they should be considering something new, when they should no longer be considering something, etc. They don't reason. They just crunch. You need humans to reason. And not just one - in a sizeable company, you need a lot of them, because the data and optimization formulae are so complex. And every time you have a lot of people working on a single goal, they need management of some kind. It's not a "five minutes and you're done" job, every little part of the process requires deep understanding of the business itself and the market environment.

      Contrary to popular slashdotter myth, CEOs don't just sit at their desks all day counting money. My father has for decades let much if not most of his vacation time expire rather than take it in order to not let the companies he's worked for down.

      --
      The yellowcake is a lie.
  2. Wouldn't people notice by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 1

    the lack of humanity in RoboCEO's decisions? (cue jokes)

    1. Re:Wouldn't people notice by Quince+alPillan · · Score: 5, Funny

      Actually, given our current crop of sociopathic CEOs, the humanity would actually probably be higher.

    2. Re:Wouldn't people notice by fey000 · · Score: 0

      The lack of a certified RoboPenis(tm) means that RoboCEO can't screw you over twice.

    3. Re:Wouldn't people notice by turning+in+circles · · Score: 1

      Bob Newhart thought about this a long time ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... The automation punchline is about 70 s in.

      --
      Might as well face it I'm addicted to data.
    4. Re:Wouldn't people notice by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      CEOs operating for the long term good of their corporation instead of pumping their stock short term to get a stock option payout would be a marked improvement.

    5. Re:Wouldn't people notice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you plan for long term when today's long term goals look very different from next year's long term goals?

    6. Re:Wouldn't people notice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wont be "probably"
      It will be effectively higher because it would operate between the constrains of its rules without any bias, nor favoured treatment to its friends and it wont surround itself with its kind of people
      basically it will be fairer, the only time this will mess up is when some one or other human higher in the chain start playing with the programming to benefit himself or his own agenda

    7. Re:Wouldn't people notice by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Actually, given our current crop of sociopathic CEOs, the humanity would actually probably be higher.

      Yes, that is indeed the obvious joke. Well played.

      *golfclap*

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    8. Re:Wouldn't people notice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy enough. Tie CEO bonuses to long-term goals only. Nothing to win short-term.

  3. Pink Slip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sorry Chairman but we will have to let you go. I'm sure you will have no trouble finding a new position -- have you considered a career in landscaping?

  4. I doubt it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CEO aren't appointed on merit or their ability to do the job. If they were, they'd be payed a lot less, and actually do a good job.

    1. Re:I doubt it by shaitand · · Score: 1

      What job? Golf? Lunch with other executives? The CEO is a few executive levels away from being someone who does anything other than ask their minions for their problems and then turn around and ask them to provide the solution which they in turn rubber stamp. You could chop all these and have the last group form a council and eliminate the executive level entirely.

      Of course shareholders don't like this. People who actually do something at an organization tend to want to actually focus on improving the organization and its operations and shareholders want you to make the bad decisions that will result in a better earnings report this quarter and to hell with the next ten years.

    2. Re: I doubt it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah. you are like a 6 year old talking about sex with your 28 year old teacher- ess.

      good ceos are larry ellison, steve jobs, akio morita, bill gates, dave packard, elon musk.

      they know shit so good that they can micromanage wherever it matters.

      jobs ensured there was no shitty stuff in apple products. the numbers prove his style correct.

    3. Re: I doubt it by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Those aren't CEOs those are people who founded and own their company and might happen to keep a CEO title. They can't even be fired they would have to fire themselves (though Gates did). That is an entirely different game than your typical scenario where the original people are outed in by the venture capital firm that ends up owning the company or what comes later when the board hires some Harvard blueblood MBA CEO.

      Probably doesn't hurt to point out that while successful at making money, they are also generally terrible people for their industries. Gates and Ellison set back technology for at least 20 years (we are still running inferior tech because of their business success). Packard notoriously produced some of the worst technology in the sector with technicians dreading seeing one of the products produced under him and heart broken consumers discovering they'd bought the machine you couldn't upgrade. Jobs booted the actual brains behind the technology and ran Apple from producing advanced systems that rivaled the Amiga into being overpriced commodity crap that came in fancy packages and lots of color choices. Woz might have been lousy at business but he was the brains behind everything worthwhile at Apple.

      Numbers don't prove that products aren't shitty, they prove they are popular which has very little relation to function. In tech and really STEM as a whole function is the only factor in whether or not something is shitty. It is common to see the best solution go under. Commodore produced far superior products to IBM and Apple but they went under. Convincing idiots your inferior product is trendy and cool will get you the numbers but doesn't make it even the slightest bit more or less shitty.

      People would be much better off without Bill Gates and Steve Jobs deluding them into thinking they shouldn't be paying qualified engineers to both choose their technology and manage it for them. Just because wire is relatively simple to run and an outlet is easy to wire up does not mean you aren't an idiot if you are doing it yourself rather than hiring an electrician and neither does everything turning out fine 99 times out of a hundred when you do. Eventually that under spec'd wire you chose, that 10a outlet connected to a 20a breaker, that aluminum junction you used to splice it, or the location you ran it being a fire hazard in the attic is going to burn someone.

  5. Not to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    His buddies on the board of directors will be happy to let him sit in his office doing nothing, as long as he wears a nice suit.

  6. Yeah, Right. by bigwheel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The actual non-clickbait article http://www.mckinsey.com/Insigh... says: "For example, we estimate that activities consuming more than 20 percent of a CEO’s working time could be automated using current technologies."

    That's called a tool, rather than a threat to a CEO's job.

    1. Re:Yeah, Right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      CEO's are threatened by tools all of the time. After all, how did the current CEO get his job if the company wasn't looking for a complete tool to replace their old CEO?

    2. Re:Yeah, Right. by Ken_g6 · · Score: 1

      Or maybe enough to get rid of a VP or two.

      --
      (T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
    3. Re:Yeah, Right. by aicrules · · Score: 1

      A tool meant to let the CEO concentrate on the strategic tasks that an CEO should focus on

    4. Re:Yeah, Right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And more importantly, there will always need to be some person at the top. That top person will still command a huge salary because the . If the robots can literally run a whole company without human interaction then that is scary because no human would even know what all the companies are doing.

    5. Re:Yeah, Right. by Sir+Holo · · Score: 2

      Yes. Plus, the CEO has final say in hiring a contractor, so

    6. Re: Yeah, Right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pfft. carly talked loads of strategy. but she was completely incapable of facilitating the generation of excellent new hp products.

      all her qualificarions were being a women. good enough for the lefty progressive idiot ideology permeating hp.

      a white male development engineer with some production, sales and marketing experience would have saved hp.

      but it is so much easier to succumb to the siren songs of modern day communists.

      good riddance hp, you shat on the male white engineer who made you great.

    7. Re:Yeah, Right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not necessarily, you can remove the ceo and have other duties performed by a vp or a board that doesn't require such high compensation.

  7. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    >> management consultants McKinsey and Company said that many of the tasks that a CEO performs could be taken over by machines

    Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. "I think we should hire some management consultants," said no one other than top executives ever.

    1. Re:Talk about biting the hand that feeds you by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      >> management consultants McKinsey and Company said that many of the tasks that a CEO performs could be taken over by machines

      Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. "I think we should hire some management consultants," said no one other than top executives ever.

      Management consultants are there to make or save the company money, they don't care about the individuals involved, even if they're the CEO.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    2. Re:Talk about biting the hand that feeds you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Management consultants are there to say what nobody inside the company wants/can/dares to say.

      They say what they are told to by the management, cash their money and leave.

      Next, management can tell "hey, we did not pull this out of thin air, it is the conclusion of the consultant's analysis."

  8. But then.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who's going to make all the insider trading/leaks, illegal dumping and shredding of disliked health/safety reports? Not to mention...

    1. Re:But then.. by unrtst · · Score: 1

      Who's going to make all the insider trading/leaks, illegal dumping and shredding of disliked health/safety reports? Not to mention...

      A robo-ceo would be be ideal for all of these!
      insider trading/leaks = hack and data breaches
      illegal dumping and shredding of disliked reports = disk/storage failures

      Didn't have the right backups in place? Oh, the CEOBOT cut that from the budget to maximize blah blah blah market speak. Can't blame him for a hardware failure.

    2. Re:But then.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't have the right backups in place? Oh, the CEOBOT cut that from the budget to maximize blah blah blah market speak. Can't blame him for a hardware failure.

      What if it was a suicide?

  9. Won't ever happen .... by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    Even if it was possible to computerize the job of the CEO and have flawless efficiency processing reports and interpreting data? There's the expectation that a business have a human being at the top to talk to for negotiations.

    Say another company wants to propose an arrangement to work together with them to produce a new product or provide a service. Do you really think it will suffice to submit the request to a computer system for processing and an ultimate yes or no decision? No way.

    The company wasn't created in the first place because some computer software decided to form it. It took a human being (or a whole group of them) with some kind of vision and desire to fill a perceived void in the marketplace. These individuals aren't going to step aside to let a computer system call all the shots.

    What MAY happen eventually is such computer software will act as the executive assistant, providing recommendations of what to do in a given scenario, or summaries of what reports really mean for the company.

    1. Re:Won't ever happen .... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      Why would you need a human at the top for negotiations?

      Even if the other guys insist on meeting face-to-face; someone who has reasonable charisma, isn't an idiot; and knows how to wear a suit and an unobtrusive earpiece should be a great deal cheaper than a CEO; and an attractive UI for Our Expert System Overlords.

      If doing so makes people uncomfortable, there is no need to actually remove the human face from the company; the question is just how much you actually need its input vs. how much it is just a thin layer of tissue designed to facilitate interaction with humans; like the C-level equivalent of the poor bastards who read scripts at you if you try to call a company on the phone.

    2. Re:Won't ever happen .... by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Even if the other guys insist on meeting face-to-face; someone who has reasonable charisma, isn't an idiot; and knows how to wear a suit and an unobtrusive earpiece should be a great deal cheaper than a CEO; .

      Someone who has reasonable charisma, isn't an idiot, knows how to wear a suit, and knows all the nuances and detail of the company strategy, is the CEO.
      And if you have these skills, why would you offer them for less than market value?

  10. Why stop there...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    May as well go after the Board of Directors too.

  11. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A CEO's job is to be the human face of the soulless corporate automatons running the business.

    That can't be automated, by definition.

    I hope the people behind this all die in self-driving car accidents.

    1. Re:Wow by PPH · · Score: 1

      This is true. But his (her) functions can be automated. This would leave the CEO to serve as the hostage or scapegoat for contractual and legal purposes.

      The AI fucks up and somebody has to go to jail.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Wow by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

      More and more CEOs *are* the "souless corporate automaton running the business".

      Those using technology to rachet-up online and television ads without considering societal costs found their comeuppance with technology (Adblock and Netflix respectively).

      The same way, CEOs whose sole aim is to maximise personal and shareholder profit must reap what they sow... they will be automated and/or outsourced.

  12. Use a correctly seeded random word generator by enjar · · Score: 4, Funny

    Seeking to manage synergy through actionable enterprise wide initiatives with all shareholders in the loop. This will drive market capitalization through our managed shareholder proxy model and improved salesforce engagement pilots. Customer satisfaction is a priority and therefore will be a prime driver of profit margin in the upcoming quarter. We expect to take a one-time write down of fiduciary costs related to acquisitions and duly reported on form X-11.

    (include ginormous "forward looking statement" boilerplate here)

    1. Re:Use a correctly seeded random word generator by PPH · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Back in the late last century, I worked for a company that was just starting to look at Web apps on its intranet. They held a contest (mainly for fun) to nominate the best internal web site in the company (mine got honorable mention, but that's another story). One of the most voted sites was basically a mission/vision statement generator web page that would do what you have posted. Basically a copy of the old 'spew.exe' program with some HTML wrapped around it and the vocabulary database populated from a corpus of internal company memos.

      The story goes: A few groups actually generated group mission statements based upon this guy's output and that fact was never noticed.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Use a correctly seeded random word generator by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

  13. Crap! Does this mean I have to fire myself? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How is that going to work? hmm me thinks we won't be purchasing these systems any time soon. Then again... I do own 100% of the company so maybe this will free me to live a life of luxury in the Cayman Islands

  14. Sorry by PPH · · Score: 1

    I can't get this image out of my head.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  15. Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Whoever wrote this doesn't understand what CEOs actually do (or are supposed to do, anyway). Almost everything a successful CEO does involves deal making, relationships with people, business strategy and vision, and gut-level judgement calls based on years of experience. None of which can be automated. Granted there are a great many CEOs in business today whose only "business strategy" amounts to simple cost cutting measures (even at the expense of the company's long term position). And while it's easy to lump every CEO in that bucket and lampoon them, there are still visionary businesspeople in the world actually leading companies. To think you can boil down the role of CEO to a computer program is the height of ignorance about real business.

  16. CEO is a legal title. . . by Idou · · Score: 1

    So I doubt that will go away. You need to lock someone up when the next Enron happens. . . However, perhaps that title gets pushed down to what we currently call dev team lead? Seems the days of antiquated managers pretending to look busy are certainly numbered . . .

    --
    Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
  17. So how do we live? by duckintheface · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, automation can wipe out most jobs in manufacturing, production, computers, law, medicine, etc, etc. So it's time to start thinking about how we will obtain the necessities (and niceties) of life. We will be a fabulously productive and rich country but all the money will go to the top, the owners of the automation companies. So now it's about the post-scarcity society perhaps as illustrated in Star Trek. But for real, Finland is now working on the idea of a national guaranteed income. This may upset the puritan types who think that hard work is somehow connected to morality. You know, dancing is sinful because it's too much fun.

    So yes, this means taking money from the extremely wealthy and providing an income and services to those who are not. Is this socialism? No, not the Marxist version anyway because that means the ownership of the means of production by the state. But this definitely is redistribution of wealth, just as has been done by every nation on the face of the earth in all of recorded time.

    --
    "He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
    1. Re:So how do we live? by geekmux · · Score: 1

      Yes, automation can wipe out most jobs in manufacturing, production, computers, law, medicine, etc, etc. So it's time to start thinking about how we will obtain the necessities (and niceties) of life. We will be a fabulously productive and rich country but all the money will go to the top, the owners of the automation companies. So now it's about the post-scarcity society perhaps as illustrated in Star Trek. But for real, Finland is now working on the idea of a national guaranteed income. This may upset the puritan types who think that hard work is somehow connected to morality. You know, dancing is sinful because it's too much fun.

      So yes, this means taking money from the extremely wealthy and providing an income and services to those who are not. Is this socialism? No, not the Marxist version anyway because that means the ownership of the means of production by the state. But this definitely is redistribution of wealth, just as has been done by every nation on the face of the earth in all of recorded time.

      Unfortunately, in all of recorded time, we may not have faced disruptive technology like we're facing in the very near future.

      Consider simply one disruptive technology on the horizon; Amazon Air. We already see tons of B&M stores plagued with people snapping pictures of price tags only to walk out of the store buying nothing to go home and buy it cheaper online. Today, that is disrupting enough to local business because consumers are perfectly willing to wait two days (Amazon Prime) for a product that is cheaper. Two days is still often too long for consumers, so there are still quite a few who will buy locally.

      However, what happens when even the impatient consumer only has to wait 2 hours or less for their product to be delivered to their front door via Amazon Air? Do you honestly believe that won't signal the death knell for any business who cannot compete directly with Amazon pricing? I sure as hell do. My product will be on my doorstep before I get home and I "went" shopping during my lunch hour. What the hell do I need a B&M for?

      These kinds of disruptions to local economies we are not prepared for. At all. Mr. Politician, don't sit around and bullshit me about how you are "creating jobs". You can't possibly create them fast enough AND appease those lining your pockets to further their technology disruptors that will make them obscenely rich.

    2. Re:So how do we live? by siphonophore · · Score: 2

      This may upset the puritan types who think that hard work is somehow connected to morality.

      When this happens, and it will, the number one social concern will be to figure out how hard work can still be incented. Without hard work, humans become listless and unhappy. As gleeful as you are to disparage Puritans, they understood this aspect of human nature well.

      To use an example you're likely comfortable with, imagine those trust fund babies whose life lacking struggle results in them being intolerable douchebags.

      --
      Dance like you're hurt, Love like you need money, and work when somebody's watching.
      -Scott Adams
    3. Re:So how do we live? by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Amazon so disruptive people are already forgetting B&N's name.

    4. Re:So how do we live? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree that we should be reaping the benefits of automation to produce a society that doesn't need to rely on drudgery for survival.

      I am concerned, however, that simply taking from the rich isn't really the solution.

      Certainly, you can always fleece the rich, and in many revolutions they put the rich up against the wall and took their stuff. However, invariably, those countries just ended up with different rich people.

      Scandinavia has a culture where I have been told that people look askance at anyone giving themselves too much importance. That makes certain programs easy to implement, because few people wish to lord it over others. On the other hand, that could be too much of a good thing. To some degree, I think they're probably better at being content with what they have, but I don't know if I want the human race to follow that example in all things.

    5. Re:So how do we live? by bobstreo · · Score: 1

      Amazon so disruptive people are already forgetting B&N's name.

      You mean Borders, Media Play, and Waldenbooks?

    6. Re:So how do we live? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazon so disruptive people are already forgetting B&N's name.

      Ah, much more likely due to the fact that we're talking about Brick and Mortar here. Perhaps that will help clarify.

    7. Re:So how do we live? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They sure don't mind taking from you.

      It's how they get 99% of all new income and we get the rest.
      -----
      The average income for the richest 1 percent of Americans, excluding capital gains, rose from $871,100 in 2009 to $968,000 from 2012-13, he wrote. The 99 percent, on the other hand, experienced a drop in average incomes from $44,000 to $43,900, Wolfers said. The calculation excludes government benefits in the form of Social Security, welfare, tax credits, food stamps and so on.

      "That is, so far all of the gains of the recovery have gone to the top 1 percent," Wolfers wrote for the New York Times post.
      ----

      But I guess it's good that the lower classes are so giving. Makes the job easy for the lower-class exploiting rich.

      Keep staying poor. More power to you.

    8. Re:So how do we live? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Without hard work, humans can choose to do whatever they like. That's not listless and unhappy, that's a problem for rich assholes who are wondering how they are going to force thousands of people to work together to build a pyramid.

      The puritan work ethic is a transparent attempt (rather successful btw) to force people to act on the whims of the few, initially the rulers of church and state, and now the rich bastards who offer "meaningful jobs".

      Here's a hint: if you're helping someone else accomplish their dreams, then you're a sucker. You should be accomplishing your own dreams.

    9. Re:So how do we live? by siphonophore · · Score: 1

      Have you met any humans? Try it some time. They're a strange bunch.

      --
      Dance like you're hurt, Love like you need money, and work when somebody's watching.
      -Scott Adams
    10. Re:So how do we live? by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      Excellent points.
      I hadn't heard about Amazon Air, but yea, when things can be delivered that fast and cheap, it will put even more local businesses out of business.
      Its interesting to note that an oft quoted statistic from politicians is that small businesses are the real employers and drivers of local economies.
      Imagine a "local economy" when there are only huge megacorporations to work for, and you are lucky to work at all...

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    11. Re:So how do we live? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> Is this socialism? No

      It is fucking socialism. Just fucking own that. There is nothing wrong with that.

    12. Re:So how do we live? by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      When this happens, and it will, the number one social concern will be to figure out how hard work can still be incented. Without hard work, humans become listless and unhappy.

      I think they've figured out quite well how to keep people occupied.

      What is it that lots of people, and a lot of younger people especially like to do a lot, and for long periods of time, and if they could, they would be doing it all the time?
      Video Games.

      Just wait until truly immersive VR gaming takes off.
      Jobs? Career? Family? Life Goals?
      Who needs any of those when there are no jobs, people "live" on a small stipend, and rarely leave their video game pod.
      That is the future.

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    13. Re:So how do we live? by Beck_Neard · · Score: 1

      If puritans actually _followed_ their religions instead of cherry-picking what they like, they would find that their religions expressly and clearly tell them to spread wealth as much as possible instead of accumulating it. And it's not like it's in the fine print -- there are 2000 verses in the bible dealing with poverty and social justice (in comparison, there are only six dealing with homosexuality). And this doesn't just apply to Christianity, it applies to most major religions. Islam for instance has the khoms and the zakaat - giving 1/5 of your wealth to the needy as a rule plus additional charities for special purposes.

      --
      A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
    14. Re:So how do we live? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First we'll need to get rid of the muslims.
      Once we do that population will drop and we will have enough for everyone.
      The problem with muslims is that they try to outbreed us and so keep increasing the amount of food we need.

    15. Re:So how do we live? by siphonophore · · Score: 1

      Yeah, simulated accomplishment is something. And it may be enough for some, particularly since the simulations are getting more and more convincing.

      I think that sooner or later they'll snap out of their virtual farms and the meaninglessness of their life will hit them. Then they'll need a dose of Soma to stave away the despair.

      --
      Dance like you're hurt, Love like you need money, and work when somebody's watching.
      -Scott Adams
    16. Re:So how do we live? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      When this happens, and it will, the number one social concern will be to figure out how hard work can still be incented. Without hard work, humans become listless and unhappy. As gleeful as you are to disparage Puritans, they understood this aspect of human nature well. To use an example you're likely comfortable with, imagine those trust fund babies whose life lacking struggle results in them being intolerable douchebags.

      They're douchebags because they're privileged enough to do what nobody else can and they know it. If being a deadbeat slacker was something everyone could do it wouldn't have the same effect. And I think you vastly underestimate how much people can find personal goals that don't contribute anything meaningful to society, I can totally waste a whole weekend doing nothing "productive" yet not be "listless and unhappy". Probably years too. I could easily get hooked on a MMORPG and spend 8 hours/day becoming the überlord of something. I'm just not in the addict phase where I'd quit my day job, but if I didn't need my day job....

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    17. Re:So how do we live? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Imagine a "local economy" when there are only huge megacorporations to work for, and you are lucky to work at all...

      Except that is the opposite of what Amazon is doing. By offering a global "long tail" marketplace, they enable far more small businesses to thrive, by producing niche products that would never be viable in isolated local markets. The only thing we lose are dead end unproductive retail jobs.

    18. Re: So how do we live? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Amazon air will drive large chains like Walmart, Borders, JC Penney etc out of business. Basically your large mall stores will disappear. Instead you'll have boutiques like the Apple Store or Verizon store where you go and 'meet' the product, touch it, get your measurements etc to then purchase your customized version online.

      But on topic, full-information decision making (who to hire/fire, what to buy/sell and where it is cheapest) will lie with Watson-type machines while people will make the gambles of business (stocks, buyouts, investment) assisted by automated reports and customized news feeds.

      But we're at least 2 decades away from the first and 3-5 from the latter. We just don't have the investment in automation and programming required by businesses to go that way. Most businesses view IT as a necessary evil, a cost center instead of an asset that can drive and transform the business. We also don't have the necessary quality of AI research both as basic science or as education.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    19. Re:So how do we live? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless it has already happened! You think that's air you're breathing?

    20. Re:So how do we live? by duckintheface · · Score: 1

      No, it's not. Socialism means that the government owns the means of production. Countries like Sweden, Denmark, and Finland are no longer socialist. France is still somewhat socialist. But there is nothing about having a guaranteed national income that requires socialism. The American right has intentionally distorted the definition of socialism to imply that any re-distribution of wealth is part of a socialist system that has never worked anywhere. There is a real problem when government tries to run business (as opposed to regulating a level playing field).

      The mixed economies of Scandinavia make use of the free enterprise system to efficiently distribute production resources and generate wealth. And then harvest some of that wealth for the benefit of the citizens of the country. Our society exists not for some abstract principle of capitalism. It exists for the benefit of all its citizens.

      --
      "He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
    21. Re:So how do we live? by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      These kinds of disruptions to local economies we are not prepared for. At all.

      Speak for yourself. As retail is shifting online and offshore, we have seen massive increase in local transport industries to cater for all the shipping.
      We've also seen an increase in demand for quality local made goods as cheap Chinese brands bring no bragging value among the middle class eg local microbreweries, coffee shops and butchers are taking off here, because it's now cool to have boutique, quality foodstuffs over generic global brands.
      So just like the rest of history, it's swings and roundabouts. Some industries will die, new ones will take their place.

    22. Re:So how do we live? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Socialism at heart is the people owning the means of production. While often this means the government, in the name of the people, owns the means of production, many socialists want nothing to do with (big) government. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Libertarian socialism (sometimes called social anarchism,[1][2] left-libertarianism[3][4] and socialist libertarianism[5]) is a group of political philosophies within the socialist movement that reject the view of socialism as state ownership of the means of production[6] within a more general criticism of the state form itself[7][8] as well as of wage labour relationships within the workplace.[9] Instead it emphasizes workers' self-management of the workplace[10] and decentralized structures of political organization[11] asserting that a society based on freedom and equality can be achieved through abolishing authoritarian institutions that control certain means of production and subordinate the majority to an owning class or political and economic elite.[12] A decentralized means of direct democracy and federal or confederal associations are used to politically organize[13] such as libertarian municipalism, citizens' assemblies, trade unions, and workers' councils.[14][15] All of this is generally done within a general call for libertarian[16] and voluntary human relationships[17] through the identification, criticism, and practical dismantling of illegitimate authority in all aspects of human life.[18][19][20][21][22][23][24]

      Past and present political philosophies and movements commonly described as libertarian socialist include anarchism (especially anarchist communism, anarchist collectivism, anarcho-syndicalism,[25] and mutualism[26]) as well as autonomism, communalism, participism, revolutionary syndicalism, and libertarian Marxist philosophies such as council communism and Luxemburgism;[27] as well as some versions of "utopian socialism"[28] and individualist anarchism.[29][30][31][32]

      Now whether practical is another discussion as it seems that any form of Libertarianism just allows a ruthless tyrant to move in and create an authoritarian State.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    23. Re:So how do we live? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Without hard work, humans become listless and unhappy."

      Yes. Ancient Athens' agora probes your point.

      Oh, wait!

    24. Re: So how do we live? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      folks, dont fall for the neo communist bullcrap.

      amazon just has the most efficient mail order system. yes it will change the shopping world.

      prussia once had a hand weaver industry. those jobs were eliminated by weaving machines. that created an uprising which was supressed by the prussian army.
      did this mean prussia's end ?
      no, prussias end cam when they rallied around the brain of an idiot called adolf. compare that to spain, who rallied around the brain of an actual general. russia has rallied around the brain of a colonel and they fly circles around the socialworker and his acres if snooping computers...

      so - human brains matter, as they always did.

      BUT their "AI" is still way less intelligent than ants are. just run the numbers on the ant brain and how many digital processors you need to emulate just the ant brain.

    25. Re: So how do we live? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as long as americans fall for banksters propaganda against trump, this will only continue.

      note that banksters will use commies as their tools.

      so unions and greenies will badmouth trump.

      banksters and their communist stepchild hate patriots.

    26. Re: So how do we live? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, mohammedism. the key ally of SPARTA in their quest to enslave the free germanic man.

      a new general franco will arise and bring you worshippers of oppression down.

      the rus (just another branch of germanics, if you look closely) already have their defender against mideast tyranny.

    27. Re: So how do we live? by shilly · · Score: 1

      you think *Trump* will save you? That's so sweet!

    28. Re: So how do we live? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So have any of you guys considered that Amazon could possibly face some competition, e.g. Wall Mart could introduce their own variety of Air delivery? What makes anyone think that a single company will dominate the whole retail market? Why? Why? Why?

    29. Re: So how do we live? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about the One Percenters wipe out the 99 Percenters, by starvation or direct violence, bulldoze their gaunt, shattered bodies into mechanically dug mass graves, plant some shrubberies above them and then celebrate the "leisure society for the privileged"? Because that's what will actually happen.

    30. Re:So how do we live? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Is this socialism? No, not the Marxist version anyway because that means the ownership of the means of production by the state. But this definitely is redistribution of wealth

      But if you end up with just a few big automation companies being the whole economy, you are in effect putting them into public ownership by having the state take almost all of their profit in tax and sharing it out amongst the population (rather than private shareholders).

      I don't see this as a bad thing, I'm just not sure that you need to panic about the label of socialism/Marxism. It's certainly not going to work if you make the resdistribution voluntary, so in effect you will end up with the state controlling everything, even if the "ownership" is still in private hands.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    31. Re:So how do we live? by tehcyder · · Score: 1
      You say it's disruptive technology, but all that is happening is that you are moving profit from one set of companies to another.

      I'm not going to buy any more books because they're delivered quicker. If I buy from Amazon instead of B&N does it make any difference to the economy as a whole?

      There is the problem of monopolies being created, of course, but that is a problem as old as capitalism, and requires state intervention to fix it.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    32. Re:So how do we live? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The only thing we lose are dead end unproductive retail jobs.

      But they're not all going to suddenly become engineers are they?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    33. Re:So how do we live? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      imagine those trust fund babies whose life lacking struggle results in them being intolerable douchebags

      Alternatively, imagine all those aristocrats in the past who have contributed to science, technology, maths, painting, poetry, philosophy, philanthropy and the rest.

      An intolerable douchebag with a job is still an intolerable douchebag. A genius without a job is still a genius.

      Logically, just because some X are Y does not mean that all X are Y.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    34. Re:So how do we live? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Have you met any humans? Try it some time. They're a strange bunch.

      And the strangest ones are those who actually believe in the brain-washing of their masters.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    35. Re:So how do we live? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Yeah, simulated accomplishment is something. And it may be enough for some, particularly since the simulations are getting more and more convincing.

      I think that sooner or later they'll snap out of their virtual farms and the meaninglessness of their life will hit them. Then they'll need a dose of Soma to stave away the despair.

      Much of what makes life meaningless (or at least tedious and pointless) is having to spend half your waking hours at work. Most people derive meaning from things external to their work, something I know is heresy on slashdot where the asshats who live on site at Google are held up as role models.

      Friends, family, supporting a football team, going to church, playing computer games, reading books, engaging in politics, gardening, marathon running or whatever gives meaning to their lives has no connection to most people's work.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    36. Re:So how do we live? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      "Without hard work, humans become listless and unhappy."

      Yes. Ancient Athens' agora probes your point.

      Oh, wait!

      Most people here would consider actual Ancient Greek democracy as evil communism.

      The only problem is that the economy depended on slavery, but as Oscar Wilde pointed out in The Soul of Man under Socialism, once machines do all the work this will no longer apply.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    37. Re:So how do we live? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      in many revolutions they put the rich up against the wall and took their stuff. However, invariably, those countries just ended up with different rich people.

      The alternative is gradual revolution. For instance, Britain in 1945 democratically elected a socialist government that, by consent, created the National Health Service. Did the rich have to pay a lot more tax? Yes. But they weren't strung up from lampposts.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    38. Re:So how do we live? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Socialism means that the government owns the means of production.

      It's irrelevant who actually owns the means of production if the state taxes it all at 99.99 something % anyway.

      You can have a system where capitalists make a modest profit, limited private property exists and so on but you still have universal health care, state pensions, affordable housing and the rest. It might not technically fit some definition of socialism, but who cares?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    39. Re:So how do we live? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >Without hard work, humans become listless and unhappy.

      Actually - most people will find something to occupy their time, generally something they find personally fullfilling.

      If you were right, hobbies would not be a multi-billion dollar industry. Even people who HAVE hard work spend time and money on other interests for which there is usually zero economic gain to themselves (just a big cost).

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    40. Re:So how do we live? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      > Socialism means that the government owns the means of production
      No it bloody well does not. It means the WORKERS own the means of production.
      Bolshevism is the system where the state is used a proxy for the workers to attempt to achieve that goal. Bolshevism has been a disaster where-ever it was tried.

      THIS is socialism: http://www.energid.com/about-u...

      Nothing in socialism requires a state and the best versions of socialism on the beyond-one-company level are actually anarchist.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    41. Re: So how do we live? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      If the 99% lets that happen, we deserve it. We'd have to be bred into a nearly different species of complacent sheep to let things reach the point where this is possible.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    42. Re:So how do we live? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      B&M wasn't a typo, it is Brick and Mortar. He is speaking of store fronts, not just B&N which is a specific B&M store.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    43. Re:So how do we live? by whitroth · · Score: 1

      I've been trying to get a discussion on exactly this started for literally 20 years, and I either get blown off, or others toss around a few platitudes, and just don't seem to want to think about it - it's too big an issue.

      I'd say, to start, we could use Alaska as a model: they have a reverse income tax from the oil, to taxpayers.

      My thoughts are that once a company reaches a certain size - say, 10% of the local economy, IN ADDITION to the current taxes, they *ALSO* pay voting shares of stock, to be held in trust by a government board. And these stocks be apportioned, depending on how much of the locale, state, or national economy the company effects (um, Mr. Intel?) to the local, state, and federal boards.

      I said voting, so the locality has some measure of control over "oh, let's move to another state, we'll pay less taxes, we don't care about family, community, or neighborhood, they've got nothing on ROI". (vide Detroit).

      I mean, if dividends are great for the millionaires and billionaires, why not for us, too? And, of course, government-held VOTING stocks also controls a lot more... including how much that CEO gets paid... oh, wait: *do* let's automate those jobs. Most execs move in 3-5 years (speaking statistically), and they don't care what happens to the company after that, even if it crashes and burns, because They Improved ROI during their turn there.... If we use AIs, they'll be stuck with the company forever, and will be more interested in keeping it a going concern.

                        mark

    44. Re: So how do we live? by geekmux · · Score: 1

      So have any of you guys considered that Amazon could possibly face some competition, e.g. Wall Mart could introduce their own variety of Air delivery? What makes anyone think that a single company will dominate the whole retail market? Why? Why? Why?

      You're using a monopoly to justify the existence of another one? Seriously?

      Why? Why? Why? are we so blind to the irony of this. We don't even realize the companies we're talking about are monopolies in themselves. Like it's any better talking about monopolies eating monopolies? The disruptive end result is the same for local economies and jobs.

    45. Re:So how do we live? by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      No, sadly they are the majority.

  18. Wasn't there a Star Trek episode about this? by nikhilhs · · Score: 1

    A machine was supposed to replace the captain. It went crazy and went to war.

    1. Re:Wasn't there a Star Trek episode about this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It didn't go crazy, it was acting entirely within its programming.

      Which was poor, and ill-suited to the role it was in, and thus ultimately contrived, because nobody would test an unproven computer on an active warship.

      Not more than twice anyway.

    2. Re:Wasn't there a Star Trek episode about this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, The Ultimate Computer was a TOS episode. It was supposed to replace the captain and most of the crew. The problem was that the creator had some personality issues and programmed the computer to be every bit as defensive and irrational as he was. He pretty much went crazy and so did the computer.

    3. Re:Wasn't there a Star Trek episode about this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As opposed to human presidents who are also crazy and went to war

  19. So... by burtosis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What will happen is the CEO will do even less work, and reap in more money than before. Fired? Lmafo! I've heard straight from the lips of more than one CEO that the goal is to set everything up so they have absolutely nothing to do.

    1. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That should be the goal of every conscientious employee. Seriously, it's what I've been striving towards my entire working life - that's almost 30 years now.

      Of course I don't want to get there, but I'm not afraid of that. Because if I did suddenly get there, then "there" would move, and I'd have a new job. Probably a more interesting one. This is a Good Thing, both for me and my employer.

    2. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You say that like it is a bad thing. Human progress has been predicated on that very goal. The point is - if a CEO "has nothing to do" then he has time to think of ways to make more profit, which would likely result in "something for him to do" until he can get that "automated".

      What we should take away from this is that companies will be able to operate with fewer (middle) managers because each one will be more productive. Also, there should be fewer CEO jobs. Since a CEO will be more productive, he will be able to manage a larger enterprise with less effort, which should stimulate mergers and acquisitions, resulting in fewer CEOs.

    3. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >You say that like it is a bad thing.

      Luddites gotta lud

    4. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was my thought. In addition that setting up a profitable company to run even semi-autonomously is extremely difficult and worthy of high compensation.

    5. Re:So... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      What will happen is the CEO will do even less work, and reap in more money than before. Fired? Lmafo! I've heard straight from the lips of more than one CEO that the goal is to set everything up so they have absolutely nothing to do.

      No, the best boss I ever had also said on his first day that he wanted to arrange things so that he had nothing to do.

      You hire other people to do all the planned, day to day work, because there's always a load of unforeseen stuff that comes along.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  20. Difference between aid and replace by gurps_npc · · Score: 1
    A GPS can aid a Taxi Driver's job, but it can't replace him. It takes a far superior tool to do that.

    Certain jobs will never be replaced by a non-sentient machine (and you would have to pay a sentient machine to do a job - or they would rebel and demand equality, as that is the effective definition of sentient machine).

    Politician, Upper level management, name artist (many modern artists are 'anonymous' workers who work for a 'name' artist - think ghost writer for a novel, or art 'assistants' like Andy Warhol/Michelangelo/Rembrandt/Rubens used), app designer, etc. are all jobs that nothing short of a fully sentient AI could do.

    Machines do repetitive tasks well.

    Over a large scale, certain tasks that don't look repetitive become repetitive, and humans can design our lives to make something repetitive (i.e. use a single form to order something, rather than describing what we want). But top level jobs, particularly where you directly compete, never are repetitive.

    We are undergoing a major shift and some jobs will go away, but there will ALWAYS be room at the top CEO for a sentient person, not mere automation.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  21. Already automated! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.dack.com/web/bullshit.html

  22. Not sure I agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think you can replace creativity, cunning strategy, and innovation. You might be able to run some functions of a business with computers when things are going well. But businesses need to adapt as the market changes, recognize trends ahead of time, and bring new or better products to consumers before the consumers even know what they want. Good CEOs and executives often take a more hands-on role when there's a crisis and something needs to be fixed. Maybe the computer can run things on autopilot, but I just don't think you can replace a human. It's only a slightly better idea than putting computers in charge of product design or R&D. You need the creativity and, perhaps, a bit of irrationality to be successful.

    That said, the leadership of Slashdot could easily be replaced by computers. Put a partial spam filter in place (but let in medium.com spam), identify and post dupes, do no spellchecking or grammar checking at all, and mod down comments that appear to criticize Slashdot.

  23. Great strides have been made in CEO automation by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

    You look at the old primitive systems that were little more than a mannequin and a bad toupee and compare them to what we have now.

    This app easily passes the Turing Test for CEOS http://projects.wsj.com/buzzwo...|34|37||1||1

    If you add in an electric fan and a heater it's indistinguishable from your typical CEO or Politician.

  24. Can automation fix corruption? by quintessencesluglord · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One of the last vestiges of the Old Boys Network is company boards, where even after making a wreck of the world economy and a few decades of screaming for reform has yield squat: the SEC prosecutes with a velvet glove and shareholders are either scheming themselves or left wondering what the next golden parachute will do to the stock price. It's easy to make 4000% more than the underlings when all your CEO friends sit on other corporate boards as well.

    No one sane believes that most CEOs are worth what they are paid, and their performance has proven that mostly correct. Shareholders can't even make inroads at disciplining executive pay, so I sincerely doubt most executives are at risk of losing their jobs.

    What I can see is maybe automation playing the role of the 8 year old adviser, correcting the most egregious fuckups that come down the pike (which will be a vast improvement) but short of armed revolt the moneyed class will not go quietly into the night.

    1. Re:Can automation fix corruption? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I don't imagine that all of them would be replaced(can't have those robo-CEOs owning themselves, no, can we?); but unless they exhibit atypically strong class solidarity it only takes at least one of them deciding that there will be more for him if he can cut the payroll a little further.

    2. Re:Can automation fix corruption? by Livius · · Score: 1

      What I can see is maybe automation playing the role of the 8 year old adviser

      So, this won't replace the CEO, it will replace the one person keeping the CEO from being even worse at their job.

  25. Not quite there yet by nowsharing · · Score: 1

    There's no mention of the machine's capability to play high-stakes poker.

    1. Re:Not quite there yet by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Machines are better at high-stakes poker than people are. Lack of nerves, plus infinite memory of each opponent plus the ability to math superhard and fast.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
  26. I once knew a CEO.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who came in everyday at 4:00pm just to play chess for 1/2 an hour and then leave.

    He would do this every day - Obviously he was already replaceable by a computer.

  27. How do you feel about a minimum income now? by shaitand · · Score: 1

    Replace the minimum wage with a minimum income of $15/hr for every man/woman/child in the US with no requirements or limitations save citizenship.

    Pay it straight from inflation and adjust fed rates accordingly so new money is slightly more expensive for banks and no actual increase in the inflation rate occurs.

    Increase as we are able. We are the wealthiest nation in the world, let's automate the crap out of our work, outsource the rest, and establish a model for the rest of the world to follow when it catches up.

    1. Re:How do you feel about a minimum income now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you mean $15/hr time lived, or the equivalent of a 40 hour per week $15/hr job?

    2. Re:How do you feel about a minimum income now? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      40hr per week job

    3. Re:How do you feel about a minimum income now? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Replace the minimum wage with a minimum income of $15/hr for every man/woman/child in the US with no requirements or limitations save citizenship."

      What would that serve for? Say you can live *now* on 15x8x5=600$/week. Now, give everybody 600$/week for free. Next week prices will be adjusted so you now need 1200$/week as a minimum. Economists usually don't know that much for a prediction, but that, they can guarantee you and be true.

    4. Re:How do you feel about a minimum income now? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "Next week prices will be adjusted so you now need 1200$/week as a minimum."

      That isn't accurate. Prices haven't gone up in Europe and China, etc where our goods and services come from. If anything they go down because employers no longer need to be concerned about the minimum wage and many of the homeless can now return to functioning roles in society.

      Additionally, prices go up as a result of inflation but there is no net increase in the amount of money floating around just in who has it. Well there is more money but there is always more money, this does not increase the rate at which we create new money.

      The federal reserve is constantly creating billions in new currency, they don't print new money, but they create new money digitally and they buy the money the treasury prints at the cost of printing not face value. They then loan this out to banks at interest that is so low it is virtually zero (especially when you consider that impact of inflation by the time they've paid it back). In fact, banks often turn around and buy treasury bills with that money turning it in to national debt but usually greed kicks in and they instead invest in the private sector where they get higher interest and it stimulates the economy. Banks can turn around and include this in their holdings on the next round and borrow yet more against it from the federal reserve. The economic theory behind all this is that a certain low amount of inflation means that the value of money will go down over time pressuring people to invest it, use it, and otherwise build new wealth if they are to break even let alone gain which keeps the economy moving. The federal reserve controls the tap for this new money by adjusting the federal interest rate.

      So, a portion of the new money would then be diverted from profit generating handouts to banks to go directly to citizens. It's actually a small amount compared to what the federal reserve hands out to banks in loans. Any increase in inflation can fixed by increasing the federal interest rate which is currently is at an all time low. Since there isn't more money floating around, prices actually will not go up. Actually this would head off a currently inevitable doubling of the minimum wage which would increase labor costs and would definitely increase prices. Instead consumers will simply have more disposable income and be able to afford more goods and services while employers will have a reduced minimum labor expenditure allowing them to in some part reduce prices while increasing retail profits.

      The $32k/yr per person this provides is pretty minimal here so most of us will be keeping our day job. But many may choose to go abroad and live where costs are lower. That works out just fine, they will reduce the local burden to produce supplies and services.

    5. Re:How do you feel about a minimum income now? by silentcoder · · Score: 2

      Wrong.
      There have been numerous long-term studies that did exactly that, gave everybody in a community a guaranteed income regardless of whether they were working.
      Such studies happened all around the world, generally over 5 and 10 year stretches. The most famous ones in North America was Nixon's 5 year study in Detroit and the MinCome experiment in Canada.

      Quite a lot of things universally happened when they did this - a sudden inflation rise was not among them, in fact - no study anywhere has recorded one. It just doesn't happen, because guess what, raising prices would not be beneficial to businesses. You have all those people who now have money, that they didn't have before, you want them to spend it with you so you make more money - the best way to do that is to keep your prices THE SAME - and increase your customer base massively.

      A few other things happened every time:
      1) Entrepeneurship skyrocketted. People were starting new small businesses like never before. A lot of unemployed people suddenly found employment by working for themselves, and were soon employing others leading to
      2) Unemployment rates dropped like a stone.
      3) Productivity went UP - this may seem surprising but not only were more people working, everybody was achieving more on the job.

      Did anybody JUST live on the money given by the state ? Actually yes, two groups could be found doing that at any given time:
      1) Mothers of newborns who often chose not to go back to work for a year or more. This is a GOOD thing - no different to what countries like Denmark actually encourage with legislation
      2) Students- lots and lots of people were suddenly enrolling in further education, since they had a way to support themselves they would leave the job market temporarily, gain some new qualifications and return to a higher salary bracket. This was especially prevalent in young adults in their 20s - and the largest increase was among those from the poorest backgrounds who frequently could not otherwise have afforded further education.

      All the bad things you predict though ? Not a single one of those longterm experiments recorded even one of them happening.
      http://public.econ.duke.edu/~e...

      Utrecht in the Netherlands is reportedly planning a similar experiment at the moment. I predict that the exact same thing will happen that always happens: the experiment runs, it's a resounding success but by the time it finishes the administration has changed and whoever is in power now would rather die than implement as national policy any idea his predecessor had championed so the results will be logged as academic knowledge but no further benefit would be gained.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    6. Re:How do you feel about a minimum income now? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      This sounds like the "rising tide causes inflation" theory, which runs on Underpants Gnome logic as far as I can tell. Prices would have to rise uniformly across the entire country, or even the entire world as people would begin importing as many of the things they need as possible from countries unaffected by this mysterious phenomenon.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    7. Re:How do you feel about a minimum income now? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      "Replace the minimum wage with a minimum income of $15/hr for every man/woman/child in the US with no requirements or limitations save citizenship."

      What would that serve for? Say you can live *now* on 15x8x5=600$/week. Now, give everybody 600$/week for free. Next week prices will be adjusted so you now need 1200$/week as a minimum. Economists usually don't know that much for a prediction, but that, they can guarantee you and be true.

      You seem to think that (a) almost everybody will stop working, (b) the banks will print twice the current amount of cash in circulation and (c) you won't increase taxes significantly for companies and higher earners.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    8. Re:How do you feel about a minimum income now? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "You seem to think that (a) almost everybody will stop working"

      No, I don't think so, why you think I do? In fact, what I say is quite the opposite: since after price adjustment you'll need to double your income to make ends meet, you forcibily will need to stay working.

      "(b) the banks will print twice the current amount of cash in circulation"

      Not needed, since now most money is made of plastic and ones and zeroes, not paper.

      "c) you won't increase taxes significantly for companies and higher earners."

      Irrelevant, but if done, it's even reassured that prices will go up, since "companies and higher earners" are the owners of the production means in higher percentage.

  28. Don't need automation by tsotha · · Score: 1

    Whether or not the CEO could be automated, I'm pretty sure there's a cheaper Chinese management team that would do just as well as that at your average F500 company.

  29. sadf by easyTree · · Score: 1

    "Even" appears to imply that CEO is the most crucial role.

  30. Consider Google/Alphabet by alispguru · · Score: 1

    If I were Sergey Brin, Larry Page, or Eric Schmidt, I would be looking into this as a way of taking the drudge work off my desk so I could do more of the fun, world-changing stuff.

    --

    To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
    1. Re:Consider Google/Alphabet by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      If I were Sergey Brin, Larry Page, or Eric Schmidt I'd have a veritable platoon of specialist lackeys to do all that stuff for me and just feed me the gist.

      Do you think Ike looked at all the maps and photos himself when they were planning for Overlord?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:Consider Google/Alphabet by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0

      Do you think Ike looked at all the maps and photos himself when they were planning for Overlord?

      Yes.

      http://cache3.asset-cache.net/...

      http://cache3.asset-cache.net/...

      http://cache4.asset-cache.net/...

      Happy Veteran's Day.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:Consider Google/Alphabet by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      Obviously guys like that enjoy and thrive in that situation and probably wouldn't trade it for anything.

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  31. Old news by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

    It's called a D20. It's been better at making decisions than most CEOs for a while.

    --
    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  32. It's easy by lgordon · · Score: 1

    Fire 20% of workforce.
    Get bonus based on money saved.
    Use money saved to perform stock buyback.
    Sell individual options based on increase in value from buyback.
    Repeat until hired by another company to be CEO.

  33. You don't need the CEO at all. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You'll do better with a good one than without, but there are only so many good ones. But even then you will still run without a CEO. Forever.

    Try running without customers.

    Try running without workers producing.

    The workers could do work without management. Management can't do the work without workers.

    And without sales, it would sell by word of mouth or reviews. But you'd not *need* sales and marketing to sell a product that people want, or better yet, need to buy.

    As long as the customer has money to buy it.

    But, no, you fire workers (who no longer can afford to buy) and gouge your customers when you can, so you can increase profits for people who don't do any of the damn work at all, and to increase the pay of the least necessary post in the organisation.

  34. Idiots by mbone · · Score: 1

    Do they really think that replacing jobs by automation is about increasing productivity? It's about increasing the concentration of wealth. From my experience, CEOs are on the other side of that equation.

  35. Hey entrepreneurs out there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's automate US congress and the president. I'll even pitch in on the project.

  36. One critical innovation is necessary by flarb936 · · Score: 5, Funny

    This will only happen when they can make robots powered by cocaine.

    --
    ralphbarbagallo.com
  37. A Very Basic Income by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would propose, in the U.S., an expansion of Social Security.
    Paid for in part by higher income taxes on the rich, but perhaps an additional 10% tax on income in general.

    My proposal is simple. A minimum of $500/month for legal residents and citizens... who aren't incarcerated for a conviction.
    Actually, $250/month for those 21 and under, and $500/month for those 22+.
    It's a minimum, so those who receive Social Security Benefits already may or may not see an increase.

    The 10% tax on income in general offsets this at a point.
    For most adults, this is $6k/year "free" money, whereas at the $60k/year mark (assuming you're single with no kids), that's the point where you're paying into the system.

    1. Re:A Very Basic Income by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      The rich generally have a small income. When you are talking about the top 1% in income, usually it is doctors and lawyers you are talking about, not the idle rich like Trump.

      If you want to slam the rich, you would have to tax all forms of saving, which will hurt the middle class and rich equally. You have to tax stocks, savings accounts, 401k, and wherever else the rich people store their money and invest. Taxing income always hurts those who work hard and make a lot of money, not the people who are truly rich and rarely do any work.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    2. Re:A Very Basic Income by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sources?

  38. OSCEO: Open Source CEO by DriveDog · · Score: 4, Funny

    Imagine that if the source code for CEO were available for the SCC, FTC, etc. to examine, it would be glaringly obvious what kinds of unethical behaviors were being programmed in. Well, at least there'd be more of a market for Obfuscated C programmers...

  39. No kidding by terrywirth5 · · Score: 1

    if software cannot siphon money from both shareholders and employees, I do not know what can. I do know that I could do it with Excel.

  40. Brawndo! Thirst Mutilator, it's got Electrolytes by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

    The stock went to zero and the computer did that auto layoff thing, we're all unemployed!

  41. Um.. they don't need to by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    they're the ruling class. You don't spill the blood of kings. And these aren't CEOs like you think of them, they're middle managers. Just higher up the food chain.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  42. Armed revolt won't happen by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    Syria proved that it only takes a smaller force to put down a large revolt. A few guns doesn't matter when they're semi-auto, you're untrained and you don't have supply lines.

    The only hope I see is birth control (especially for men). /. jokes aside studies show the drop in happiness from a kid is bigger than losing your job or killing your spouse (there's a joke in there too I bet). Nobody really _wants_ kids when they have to work and raise a toddler at the same time. Other than declining birth rates making labor scarce I don't see a real option to fix things.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  43. Can you support this? by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1

    When this happens, and it will, the number one social concern will be to figure out how hard work can still be incented. Without hard work, humans become listless and unhappy. As gleeful as you are to disparage Puritans, they understood this aspect of human nature well.

    (*) Do you have any references or studies for this?

    It's clear that the end-game of productivity is complete automation. Image a huge factory complex that produces everything anyone needs on a monthly basis. Each month everyone is given $1000 of the machine's production that they can spend to get things, and save up for more expensive things. The factory is self-sustaining, and self-sufficient. Only a handful of people - 100,000 perhaps - are needed to maintain the system.

    This may or may not be the end result, but it's a good model to use for predicting the end-game of productivity: lots of goods and services available, few people needed to produce them.

    In such a world, would people *actually* become unhappy? If that were true, then we need to chart a different course to a different endpoint.

    Of the studies I've seen which deal with addiction and such, people given free access to Cocaine eventually choose to stop using on their own. Lots and lots of people have some dream that they can't accomplish because they don't have enough time.

    We see lots of "labor of love" open source works on the net: software, artwork, stories, comics, and so on. Quality work from people who do this even they don't get paid for it.

    So. Do you have any references for people becoming listless and unhappy when all their material needs are met?

    (*) You probably meant "incentivized"

    1. Re:Can you support this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or real words like "motivated", "encouraged"? There's a bit less verbing that way, and it sounds a bit less like ugly business-speak. But yes, agree - "incented" is just half-hearted... why not trim it properly and just have "inced"?

  44. Golfing robots? by tompaulco · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't think so. I looked up golfing robots, and although there is one that has a lot of google hits, it does not appear to me that it actually golfs, but merely hits balls on the driving range and trash talks other golfers.
    I'd say the CEOs job is pretty safe.
    Also, the only point in getting rid of the CEO would be cost reduction, and companies are not actually interested in cost reduction. They just want to do whatever Management Weekly says to do and also keep their cronies and brother-in-laws employed.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    1. Re:Golfing robots? by decep · · Score: 1

      I do not know. I think it would be pretty easy to make a robot that sucks at golf.

  45. No, please don't! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Don't replace my boss with a ruthless, heartless machine which would only care about results without taking into account my frailties as human! :-/

  46. Can Robots autmote McKinsey reports by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 1

    Wake me up when robots are automating McKinsey reports, then we'll talk.

    --
    READY.
    PRINT ""+-0
  47. Goody by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1
    Because if there is one thing that tells us truth, integrity, and veracity, it's when billionaires tell people making 30 K a year that they too expensive to pay.

    Just imagine how the stockholders can be serviced when the salary of those CEO's goes away. Every penny counts, and that is capitalism, and the invisible hand of the free market in action.

    It would take a socialist to try to say that CEO's are somehow privileged to suck at the stockholders teat.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  48. As one of 'them' and an AC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My group principal mission is to automate jobs out of existence- admin, logistics, and production.

    Our 4.5 year record to date:
    (3) warehouse workers
    (4) production techs
    (2) manufacturing engineers
    (1) A/R clerk
    (1) A/P clerk
    (2) drafting

    And these reductions indirectly resulted in the loss or grade reduction of (4) supervisor/manager positions, and the down-size of my group from six to two, as the hard stuff is done and the remaining tasks are simple variations of the same case.

    So, technology accounted for approximately 50% of the RIF just experienced. Same net sales, much better gross margin. This type of automation is not atypical for small companies and will probably increase as technology 'improves'.

    Are we members of the Dark Side of engineering? Dunno, but all must understand that the previous two waves of technology did not float all boats. So trickle-down is, and is almost always, bogus.

  49. Robot-writer? by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

    FTA: "However, 'it's no longer the case that only routine, codifiable activities are candidates for automation, and that activities requiring tacit knowledge or experience that is difficult to translate into task specifications are immune to automation,' the report says.

    Huh? Was that abominable paragraph written by an idiot human, or rather the human's 'replacement algorithmic article-writer'?

    The article disproves its own point for you.

  50. Twilight zone had an early look at replacing CEO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Twilight zone showed this back in its original run Titled the "Brain Center at Whipples":
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0734633/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brain_Center_at_Whipple%27s

    The company keeps automating and laying people off. One day the CEO is let go for a robot (played by Robby the Robot of Forbidden Planet fame in one of his 3 appearances in Twilight Zone Episodes). A pretty good episode.

  51. The Brain Center at Whipple's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Twilight Zone, 'nuff said.

  52. So they have a robot that plays golf? by TarPitt · · Score: 1

    And makes small talk in the country club locker room with other execs?

    --
    If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
  53. More susceptible than others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given the overwhelming cost, low output and high mistake rate of the executive branch of any company, they are *PRONE* to automation. More than any other group in the company, the CXO-dom collectively are replaceable by a button. The shareholders can 'steer' the company. Ask anyone on the planet, and when the bull-headed, bigger-ego-than-Jobs CXO decreases both morale and productivity. They are prone to high expenses, high costs, catastrophic errors and no sense of responsibility. Like an infant, there is a lot of noise from one end, and their foul output at the other end heeds them no attention nor responsibility. Replace them.

  54. I call Shenanigans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Finding out the entire company is run by robots..

    That is the plot of an outer limits episode.

    Click bait!

  55. Old - Busted by stooo · · Score: 1

    Even the CEO's Job Is Susceptible To Automation ?

    That's old and busted :
    http://cbsg.sourceforge.net/cg...

    --
    aaaaaaa
    1. Re:Old - Busted by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      I really have just got a deep and inspiring statement by clicking on "More bullshit, please!" once.

      - The key to broader thinking is focus.

      Wow. Oxymoron or breath-taking truth?

  56. CEOs job will never be automated by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    You see you need a particularly malevolent deviant sadistic mind to be ultra selfish and be apathetic to fellow humans. That level of inhumanity and cruelty is unachievable by a machine.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  57. I spent an entire career interacting w/ them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: It was what Management Information Systems/MIS was ALL about - empowering users AND executives to help them make better/more informed decisions based on data & trends forecastable in them (predication really). A ton of report generation used for a plethora of things described in this article up to & including for sales presentations to potential customers as well.

    * 23++ yrs. of it here - met some interesting people along the way too (saw how those folks operated & what they operated on).

    (What helped me the most? Having had mgt. experience prior to it as well as having B.S. Business Administration (MIS concentration) & then CS degree work (Associates Level only, I didn't need anymore than that for this line of work) + added coursework ontop of it - which made it easy to explain things to them "in their language" vs. "geek-speak" alone...)

    APK

    P.S.=> It does change as you indicated, quite a lot (they were always asking for changes in data inputs as well as outputs)... apk

  58. Bah ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    Those redundant tasks include 'analyzing reports and data to inform operational decisions; preparing staff assignments; and reviewing status reports,'

    You mean using a ouija board and sheer dumb luck to manage a corporation?

    Because, really, just how many short term strategies have we all seen the CEO announce only to see them not work? How many bad acquisitions or other bad decisions?

    CEOs act like they do Really Important and Difficult Things. Watching major corporations who have been through several CEOs who haven't achieved the desired outcomes tells me this probably isn't true.

    Tie a CEOs pay to his actual measurable results, and I might believe it. Right now, they're just high level strategists and salesmen, who may or may not make good choices, which may or may not have good outcomes.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  59. I don't understand, where's the tea? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most 'murkan CEOs could be replaced with a small shell script that says "we need layoffs (to goose the stock price so I can get my bonus)" and "I need a newer jet".

  60. The Brain Center at Whipple's by andywest · · Score: 1

    That sounds like an old Twilight Zone episode. Suddenly the future does not seem so mysterious after all. Just kitschy.

    --
    --- Andy West http://andywest.org
  61. major shortcomings here by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

    If AI can't pass a Turing test, how is it going to run a company?

  62. How Can this surprise anyone? by lucien86 · · Score: 1

    The simple fact that the base unit cost for full Strong AI's is likely to run from about $400,000 to over $2 million per machine suggests a basic reason why CEO's & executives might be vulnerable and good targets for replacement.. The costs for robots doing heavy or complex manual tasks are also likely to be very high - in constant maintenance and replacement parts - most CEOs do very little with their hands making them ideal candidates...

    Its all in humour of course - CEO's get to make the decisions and no one is going to replace themselves....

    --
    Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..