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Apple CEO Tim Cook: "Microsoft Surface Book Tries Too Hard To Do Too Much" (hothardware.com)

MojoKid writes: Apple CEO Tim Cook isn't making any friends on the PC side of the aisle this week. Cook took to the interview circuit this week to heavily promote the release of the new 12.9-inch iPad Pro and didn't waste any time kicking some dirt in the eyes of PC consumers around the world. When questioned on his thoughts about PCs, Cook wondered, "I think if you're looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?" Many would take issue with those comments. But we'll leave those comments behind, because Cook decided to set his targets on the current darling of the PC community — the Microsoft Surface Book. Even though Cook says that his company's relationship with Microsoft is "really good," he went on to say that the Surface Book "tries too hard to do too much" and that "it's trying to be a tablet and a notebook and it really succeeds at being neither." It will be interesting to see Mr. Cook's reaction as sales figures for the device roll in post holiday shopping season.

21 of 478 comments (clear)

  1. I remember a time... by mikaere · · Score: 3, Informative

    when Apple just got on with it a made good products. Now they need to spread FUD about a competing product ?

    I've got a Surface Pro 3 - it's a great laptop replacement and the tablet form factor is handy for some situations and the fact that it runs standard Windows software makes it a great device. Unless your work consists of surfing the web and sending the odd email, why would anyone want an iPad Pro ?

    --
    It's good luck to be superstitious
    1. Re:I remember a time... by aralin · · Score: 2, Informative

      This post, to an old timer like me is absolutely excellent source of entertainment. Do you know the origin of the term FUD? I'd like to refer you to wikipedia, which has it more or less right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      As for the G3,G4 and even G5, they were faster, in some case more than twice as fast even on Intel's own benchmark than contemporary Intel chips. But they were expensive and the economy of scale was in favor of Intel. If Apple wanted to ever compete on cost with comparable high end Wintel systems, they had to make the switch to Intel chips.

      Please, learn your history, young one.

      --
      If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
    2. Re:I remember a time... by ihtoit · · Score: 3, Informative

      underpowered? I bet that the Surface Pro pisses all over my laptop.

      My laptop:
      Dual core 1.6GHz AMD with dual core Radeon HD on die
      8GB RAM
      500GB HDD storage + 3xUSB 2.0 + DVDRAM
      15.4" 1366x768 panel
      2MP camera

      Not bad for £339 back in March 2011.

      Surface Pro 4 (to meet spec):
      quad core 4GHz Skylake i7
      2736x1824 12.3" touchscreen
      16GB RAM
      1TB SSD
      8MP camera
      Miniport + USB 3.0

      I don't know if the £1800 asking price is worth it, though. I could get a beast of a desktop system for about that.

      Asus Crosshair 990FX motherboard with 5GHz AMD Piledriver 8-core and 16GB of Corsair Vengeance DDR3: £515
      (that's 14 USB 3.0 and 4 USB 2.0 ports for anyone who's counting)
      CIT Black Edition 1KW PSU at I think my last one cost £60. That's one thousand Watts certified continuous output.
      Samsung 850 Evo 1TB SSD @£322
      XFX Radeon R9 390X 8GB £374
      CIT Venom case: £19
      Coolermaster T4 CPU cooler: £22
      Noctua Vortex 120mm case fan x3 @£13 (these things are brilliant: whisper quiet and they shift a LOAD of air)
      Pioneer Blu-Ray/DVDRW £61

      That's £1412 give or take. I have change there for another TB SSD! Or I might spoil myself and go for a £305 24" 4k UHD monitor.

      (anyone know what happened to Firewire? Finding a "modern" system with Firewire is like hunting unicorns these days... oh, wait, found a card on Amazon for £16.)

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  2. Maybe by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Informative

    but the Penny Arcade folks made a good point about the new surface: it's not powerful enough to drive that ultra high res display w/o input lag. If you're just mousing with a stylus you won't notice, but their artist noticed the lag right away. Yeah, he could drop res, but that means not running in the panels native res. He was using a Surface Pro 1 on the road, might still be.

    --
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    1. Re:Maybe by Wdomburg · · Score: 5, Informative

      That was the Surface Pro 3, not the new Surface Pro 4, and Microsoft largely addressed his issues in their firmware update last October: http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2014/11/01/surface-3-update

      The new model is significantly more powerful, with no noticeable parallax or lag, and a greatly improved display: http://gizmodo.com/the-surface-pro-4-has-the-most-accurate-tablet-display-1738801322

  3. Re:He's got his talking points by LichtSpektren · · Score: 5, Informative

    99% of Windows 10 users are being spied on, even if they think they turned the settings off.

    You have hard evidence of that claim, right?

    By the way, are you that naive to think the sainted Tim Cook and his Apples are not "spying" on you? Wake up numbnutz.

    Hard evidence: look at the view counts of all the pages on the Internet that list all of the 100+ domains you need to block from your router to turn off the Windows 10 spying. Even if *every single view* was an individual person that went ahead and followed the directions religiously, that would still be less than 1% of all Windows 10 rollouts.

    Don't get me wrong, I am no Apple fan. I proselytize for Linux. But if the choice is either Windows 10 or OS X, I would advocate for the latter, because the spying in OS X can be turned off without fighting the OS tooth and nail.

  4. Re: He's got his talking points by LichtSpektren · · Score: 4, Informative

    You need Windows 10 Enterprise to turn off the spying. For Win10 Pro, you still need to block all of the domains from your router.

  5. Re:Artists, musicians, etc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Inferior machines? My middle of the road MacBook is far faster than anything I had when I was a musician and we charted quite a bit on machines that are obsolete. Years ago, I was a hobbiest PC builder -- we could afford to buy machines prebuilt, but I loved trying to get just a little more processor time out of the box. From a music perspective, I ended up having the fastest spec'd machine for one of the bigger softsynth companies (Native Instuments) and after benchmarking it, the company asked to borrow the machine for a week so they could check the benchmarks themselves.

    At the time, it was said we'd never need more. Again, I have a middle of the road macbook...it puts my custom built machine to shame. I have the full line of Native Instruments Komplete running on it without any issue. I have Premier on my machine. It works far better than anything I had in the past when I was a creative professional.

    What is the point? Apple sold 6 million of these inferior machines in the last quarter that are far better than anything I'll ever need to be creative. I have a few PCs in my rackmount still, but I don't even bother anymore because my laptop is good enough. For the record, one of my rackmounts in a hackintosh -- I wanted all the PCI type slots and everything else I was use to in older machine. The fact is, I never use anything inside. I just plug in with either Thunderbolt or USB3. USB3 is good enough for 90% of what I do.

    The point is that if you can't be creative with these inferior machines, you are doing something wrong. And fucking shit...I don't care if it is Mac or Windows or Linux...the operative systems and software and hardware are all good enough that the only people that complain that they can't be creative are idiots that shouldn't be in the industry, or probably just not as creative or smart as they think they are.

  6. Re:He's got his talking points by LichtSpektren · · Score: 3, Informative

    Adding 100+ domains to your router's firewall is only "trivial to mitigate" for geeks. >99% of Windows 10 users are being spied on, even if they think they turned the settings off.

    You don't need to do that, you just need to run one of the many third-party utilities that kill the spyware. Updates may one day add more spyware, of course, but 99% of user install malware willingly anyhow, so it's hardly worse than what their used to - just run some sort of cleanup every so often.

    Windows 10 bypasses the firewall and hosts file to phone home, so unless that third-party utility is altering your router's settings, then I'm not sure what it's supposed to do. Are they confirmed (via packet sniffing) to actually work?

  7. Re:"Tries too hard to do too much" by lgw · · Score: 3, Informative

    Honestly, you could do worse...

    I've been using a Surface 3 for a while now, which might still be relevant to the new stuff:

    * It's a perfectly good lightweight touchscreen Windows laptop, solidly built it a bit pricey for the specs.

    * It's a poor tablet for normal home tablet use without the keyboard, because Windows software especially games just expects a keyboard, and the onscreen keyboard lacks important keys like "Escape". (Plus there's not a single consistent right-click gesture.)

    * It's great tablet for special cases like taking notes with the stylus, or anything that there's actually an app store app for (for me, Kindle and Audible are important, and it's just fine there).

    So, if I think of it as a lightweight laptop, also usable as a table for a few specific needs, I think it's great. But I won't be sitting on the couch playing games with it.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  8. Re:He's got his talking points by LichtSpektren · · Score: 1, Informative

    Turning off all the settings does absolutely nothing. Try it yourself. Turn all the settings on, open up a packet sniffer, and do something rudimentary like opening up the Windows Calculator. You'll see Windows suddenly contacting over 100 domains. Then turn all the telemetry settings off, put all the domains in your hosts file and firewall, disconnect your Microsoft account, perform an animistic ritual for good fortune--there will be almost no difference whatsoever in all of the phoning home that Windows 10 does.

  9. Win 10 enterprise does *NOT* turn off spying by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Informative

    ... I don't believe that even Enterprise truly turns off the spying ...

    I can almost be certain that Win 10 Enterprise does not turn off spying

    3 of my business offices - one in Singapore, one in the States and one in Africa - we are running parallel experiments on Win 10

    We have workstations running Win 10 Enterprises, turning off all the spying option - including the updates - and in the meantime we turned on the sniffers

    For the past few months we have encountered _some_ abnormalities - even with all the spying options turned off, Win 10 Enterprise still 'phoned home' - and the data we captured so far are found to be encrypted, so we can't say for sure what kind of data Win 10 enterprise is sending back to its mothership

    --
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  10. Re:Creative people tend to be broke by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  11. Re:He's got his talking points by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Informative

    iOS is a walled garden. OS X is not. It's basically an adapted BSD under the hood with Apple's custom OS X GUI and other services on top, and it has no more trouble installing third party software, accessing the underlying filesystems, or communicating with remote systems than a Windows system.

    --
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  12. Re:He's got his talking points by hairyfeet · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ask and ye shall receive.

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  13. Re:"Tries too hard to do too much" by cbhacking · · Score: 3, Informative

    * Only if you don't include the weight and battery life among those specs. As a computer, it's overpriced. As a *portable* computer, it's just about smack in the middle of the pack for its class, price-wise.

    * Switch the touch keyboard to the "Standard" or full layout. It has the meta keys you are looking for. You may need to enable it. In Win10, the setting is at Settings -> Devices -> Typing -> "Add the standard keyboard layout as a touch keyboard option".

    * In desktop apps (i.e. non-Store apps), tap-and-hold is always right-click. In Win8.x Windows Store apps, right-clicking brings up the app bar; you can also achieve this by swiping in to the screen from above or below.

    * I generally avoid the app store stuff - for me, its limitations aren't worth it, even in a touch environment, and that's without even getting into the fact that it's a DRM system.

    --
    There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
  14. Re:Care to share the list of the '100+ domains'? by Chas · · Score: 3, Informative

    This isn't 100 of them, but it's 57 known domains that need to be blocked.

    vortex.data.microsoft.com
    vortex-win.data.microsoft.com
    telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com
    telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
    oca.telemetry.microsoft.com
    oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
    sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com
    sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
    watson.telemetry.microsoft.com
    watson.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
    redir.metaservices.microsoft.com
    choice.microsoft.com
    choice.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
    df.telemetry.microsoft.com
    reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
    wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
    services.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
    sqm.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
    telemetry.microsoft.com
    watson.ppe.telemetry.microsoft.com
    telemetry.appex.bing.net
    telemetry.urs.microsoft.com
    telemetry.appex.bing.net:443
    settings-sandbox.data.microsoft.com
    vortex-sandbox.data.microsoft.com
    survey.watson.microsoft.com
    watson.live.com
    watson.microsoft.com
    statsfe2.ws.microsoft.com
    corpext.msitadfs.glbdns2.microsoft.com
    compatexchange.cloudapp.net
    cs1.wpc.v0cdn.net
    a-0001.a-msedge.net
    statsfe2.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
    sls.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
    fe2.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
    diagnostics.support.microsoft.com
    corp.sts.microsoft.com
    statsfe1.ws.microsoft.com
    pre.footprintpredict.com
    i1.services.social.microsoft.com
    i1.services.social.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
    feedback.windows.com
    feedback.microsoft-hohm.com
    feedback.search.microsoft.com
    rad.msn.com
    preview.msn.com
    ad.doubleclick.net
    ads.msn.com
    ads1.msads.net
    ads1.msn.com
    a.ads1.msn.com
    a.ads2.msn.com
    adnexus.net
    adnxs.com
    az361816.vo.msecnd.net
    az512334.vo.msecnd.net

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  15. Re:He's got his talking points by dave420 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Did you read that article? Microsoft isn't doing anything bizarre or unheard of. It's the same stuff that's been happening for over a decade.

    Misrepresenting the situation is not helping anyone.

  16. Re:He's got his talking points by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Informative

    Try it yourself.

    I did. Windows 10 Pro, installed from the official ISO in a VM, all updates to date. Packet sniffer on the host machine. Turns out, you are full of shit.

    When opening Windows Calculator with the default settings after installation I got hits on five domains. Not 100, just five, and three of those where when I opened the start menu and typed in "calc" (because it searches Bing by default).

    Then I disabled all the telemetry etc. Opening the calculator now contacts exactly one domain. Not over 100, not the original 5, just one.

    Finally I tried blocking those domains with the hosts file and it worked perfectly.

    It's bad, but there is no reason to make shit up.

    --
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  17. Re:He's got his talking points by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Informative

    I service both operating systems, and I see just as many old Macs by proportion of ownership than old Windows systems - more, in fact, because so many Windows systems are the junky low-end PCs that wear out fast. OS X systems also tend to be updatable more times before the newest accompanying hardware undergoes some major change that prevents the upgrade from running on older systems. Because Windows machines are susceptible to the "snowflake syndrome" - many manufacturers of hardware, each with its own persnickety combination of Windows drivers required - users are much more reluctant to move to a new Windows release because it might not run on their individual snowflake.

  18. Re:Care to share the list of the '100+ domains'? by LichtSpektren · · Score: 4, Informative