Zuckerberg To Take 2 Months Paternity Leave To Give His Kid a Better Outcome (techcrunch.com)

theodp writes: TechCrunch reports that Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg will take two months off from Facebook for paternity leave. Why? "Studies show that when working parents take time to be with their newborns, outcomes are better for the children and families," Zuckerberg explained in a FB post on Friday. "At Facebook we offer our U.S. employees up to 4 months of paid maternity or paternity leave which they can take throughout the year." No word on why the child will only get 50% of that time — maybe that's what the gains chart suggested as a good tradeoff — or if expectant parents who apply to send their children to Zuckerberg's new Primary School, which aims to "help children from underserved communities reach their full potential," will be expected to make a similar commitment.

Comments

And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Good on him, who cares. Next?

Re:And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[HuguesT]

Good on him indeed, this means several things:

He's a big-shot CEO who can delegate. Great

This sort of things is not reserved for women. Fathers should take time off too. Great

The workplace is not the be-all and end-all of all things. Kids are important too, they are our future. Great

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[bill_mcgonigle]

It doesn't matter if you give a shit - it only matters if you view ads and post comments. You've done your part for the day to encourage such stories.

But topically, there's a subset of IT where you're supposed to "understand" that you shouldn't ever expect to be a good father, spend meaningful time with your kids - "because you're in IT". That's not importance, it's abuse. Many nerds who don't know how to stand up for themselves could use a role model like TheZuck to point to. In my limited experience, the people who most detest him are those who waste their time on his site (projection).

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

/. is a bastion of support for him
compared to places like Breitbart. Off the top of my head, I'd say he's probably the #5 most detested person there, behind the president, Hillary Clinton. Nancy Pelpsi and John Boehner.

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[kuzb]

Zuckerberg is hardly what I'd consider a positive role model, unless you feel screwing over millions of people by selling their personal information to the highest bidder while simultaneously looking down on them all as plebs is a virtue.

Re:And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Good on him indeed, this means several things:

He's a big-shot CEO who can delegate. Great

This sort of things is not reserved for women. Fathers should take time off too. Great

The workplace is not the be-all and end-all of all things. Kids are important too, they are our future. Great

I wonder how many men working for Facebook get 2 months paid Paternity leave.
If they all do, Great. If they don't, then Zuck is an asshole.

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you even read the OP?

At Facebook we offer our U.S. employees up to 4 months of paid maternity or paternity leave which they can take throughout the year

Re:And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

it's news in the US because you need to be the billionaire CEO of a powerful company in order to even GET paid paternity/materinity leave, let alone two months of it.

If youre not from the US i can see why this wouldnt be news, since only 3 of the worlds 198 nations dont require paid leave for having children.

two being 3rd world shit holes.
the the third the US.
but I repeat myself.

Re:And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus man, did you even read the summery? Line 2, sentence 3: "At Facebook we offer our U.S. employees up to 4 months of paid maternity or paternity leave which they can take throughout the year."

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

and that primary school might as vault-tech because you know it will be one big social experiment.

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

The sale of the information pays for the service. Lots of people are plebs, such as yourself.

Re:And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Greyfox]

Yeah! Now if he'd had a heavily armed robot exoskeleton built in order to give his kid a better outcome, that would actually be slashdot-worthy!

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Solandri]

I hardly consider Zuckerberg a positive role model. But he's been a heckuva lot better than other people who've been in his position (Rockefeller, Morgan, Gates, etc).

• - Once he had his billions, he had the opportunity to select any gold-digging trophy wife. Instead, he married his pre-fortune girlfriend.
• - He wasn't arrogant, and understood when he was in over his head, and hired outside experts to advise him or do the job for him.
• - Facebook has more or less actually been competing with challengers, not playing shenanigans with standards or formats to create an unlevel playing field. That hasn't been true for their instant messaging, but their core service has pretty succeeded because it provided what people wanted and reached critical mass first, not because they crippled up and coming competitors.
• - He's been changing himself to follow the market (learning Chinese), not trying to change the market to follow his desires (biggest gripe I had with Jobs).
• - Those billions of people he screwed over agreed to allow him to sell their personal information to the highest bidder. If you dislike that FB does this, then you need to convince those people to stop agreeing to stuff like this. If you don't do that, even if Zuckerberg and FB vanished overnight, it would just mean a different company and different CEO would rise up to provide a social media service which did the exact same thing. This is not like Standard Oil or Windows, where you had to use their products if you wanted to survive in the modern world, so you were forced to pay their price. FB's market penetration is only a bit over 50% in the U.S., nothing like the 90+% those monopolies held/hold.
• - More than likely, you also probably look down on all those people who willingly give up their personal information as plebs.

Re:And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[davester666]

Yes, it is in writing. But can they actually take the time off. A ridiculous number of people can't even take their vacation time because of the fear they will be asked to stop bothering to come into the office.

And they won't say "we're letting you go because you took vacation time", because would be illegal, just something like "we want to move in a different direction, one without you on our team."

Re:And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are things really that bad in America?

Re:And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I took 2 months for paternity leave. You sound angry...

Re:And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Mass Overkiller]

Or when you come back to work after an approved vacation your boss approaches you and tells you that a customer complained about you, and that you're fired. Even though in the industry I work in, customer complaints, while taken seriously, are a frequent event. Everyone complains about something, and to get fired for it is rare, and in some shops, illegal under contract.

Re:And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[HuguesT]

Just in case someone is wondering, this is true, read this.

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[quax]

"Zuckerberg is hardly what I'd consider a positive role model"

Doesn't mean one shouldn't praise him for what he does right. Setting an example like this for parents, who have the chance to take paternity leave, qualifies for such praise.

(Disclaimer, I am not on F***book).

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

he married his pre-fortune girlfriend

Um, because he knew she was interested in him, not his wealth.

hired outside experts to advise him or do the job for him

Who doesn't bring-in outside experts at some stage? Did Steve Jobs - whom you disdained - hold every position in Apple? CFO? CIO? HR? Did he also do facilities maintenance?

He's been changing himself to follow the market (learning Chinese)

Isn't his wife of Chinese heritage? And won't his kids be half-Chinese?

Those billions of people he screwed over agreed to allow him to sell their personal information to the highest bidder

Yes, but while *I* don't have a FB account, my privacy is still violated by idiots (family, co-workers, etc) who decide to include me in their postings.

More than likely, you also probably look down on all those people who don't willingly give up their personal information as plebs.

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[DNS-and-BIND]

The woman thing comes from the changes in male-female power due to the punitive divorce laws in America. Rather than have to give up his money in a divorce, he married his dumpy Asian girlfriend. Isn't there a word for white men who prefer Asian women? Isn't it derogatory?

His Chinese is terrible and sounds like a fourth grader. He's just so, so desperate to show off in front of everyone. In a cringeworthy moment, he actually asked Xi Jinping in front of people if he'd name his child. Xi obviously declined, the question should never have been posed in the first place. But he managed to embarrass himself in Chinese, so cool. Not.

Looking down on other humans isn't cool. Not when you do it, not when Zuckerberg does it.

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

That 4th grader remark I read before. Nevertheless, it is impressive. As an expat in China for 5 years, I still struggle with day to day Chinese. It really is a very difficult language to learn.

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

The woman thing comes from the changes in male-female power due to the punitive divorce laws in America. Rather than have to give up his money in a divorce, he married his dumpy Asian girlfriend. Isn't there a word for white men who prefer Asian women? Isn't it derogatory?

Noone mentioned race until you did. It's obviously irrelevant to the rest of us.

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[kuzb]

"I hardly consider Zuckerberg a positive role model. But he's been a heckuva lot better than other people who've been in his position (Rockefeller, Morgan, Gates, etc)."

No he isn't. He's just as bad, or worse. Just because you're got some kind of facebook stockholm syndrome doesn't mean the rest of us should just fall in line and consider him a decent member of society. He's garbage that abused a lot of people to get where he is, and he continues to abuse those people.

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because you're too young to have a kid, or probably even a boy- or girlfriend, doesn't mean we all are. Grow up faster or learn to scroll right on by.

Re:And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Mike Frett]

If todays Kids are our Future, what a terrifying Future it will be.

Re:And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

YES.

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hitler pushed technological innovation in Germany to amazing heights. Perhaps we should praise him too?

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Gooba42]

Absolutely. We have gone to great lengths to establish legal precedent that employers can fire you for any reason, no reason and even faulty reasons with no consequence to them.

Re: And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[quax]

Well some people to this day like to point out that he build the Autobahn.

But I think I just call Godwin on you. Seriously.

Re:And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in Quebec. We have paid paternity leave for births and adoptions. (12 weeks). Its part of the social contract.

Re:And people on slashdot give a shit, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

YES??? I WOULD HAVE TO ATTEND EIGHT THOUSAND FUNERALS, so that wonder boy could have his two months paternity leave, but the bodies will not be found, nor has my years of code. But it may not be sucker-berg s fault... even if it is still SOMEONE S. I still need to know. It has not been a few months but a decade of THIS so there is no fun nor benefit, only more losses.

Though spoiled is a likely side effect...

[rmdingler]

Why? "Studies show that when working parents take time to be with their newborns, outcomes are better for the children and families," Zuckerberg explained.

In related research, children born to billionaire parents are statistically likely to experience better outcomes than those below the poverty line.

Re:Though spoiled is a likely side effect...

[alvinrod]

Which does raise an interesting point as to whether or not the effect is due to spending additional time with children or is merely a byproduct of the fact that those who can take time off to spend with their children are far more likely to be wealthy, which is more responsible for the outcome.

In looking for a study to back those assertions up, I immediately found an article from earlier this year reporting on a recent study which reported the opposite results, i.e., that time spent with children didn't matter. I haven't read through it yet, but here's a link to the study in question. (PDF Warning)

I'm all for workers getting maternity or paternity leave if they want to spend time with their newborns, but we shouldn't delude ourselves into why we're doing it.

Re:Though spoiled is a likely side effect...

[Anonymous Coward]

In related research, children born to billionaire parents are statistically likely to experience better outcomes

Um, not necessarily. That's why Bill Gates and Warren Buffett talk about giving away all their money to charity before they die.

Re:Though spoiled is a likely side effect...

[Anonymous Coward]

They're also statistically more likely to be egotistical sociopaths shitbags that are extremely disconnected from the rest of the world. I'm not sure whether to be happy or sad for this kid. His life will never be normal.

Re:Though spoiled is a likely side effect...

[ranton]

In related research, children born to billionaire parents are statistically likely to experience better outcomes

Um, not necessarily. That's why Bill Gates and Warren Buffett talk about giving away all their money to charity before they die.

I think you are grossly overestimating the average outcome of a child born into a family below the poverty line.

Re:Though spoiled is a likely side effect...

[Nemyst]

Actually, I think there's an opposite effect going on. I'd say the children born to wealthy parents, but not unbelieveably so, have the best chances. Being the child of Zuckerberg or Gates means you're growing up in a very unique position which isn't necessarily good for a child's development. It becomes hard to have "normal" social interactions, you have a completely out of whack understanding and relationship with money, etc. This goes even more so as a teenager, where the other teens will know who your parents are, which will heavily color their interactions with you. Plus, many of those parents tend to be extremely busy and it's very well known that parental presence is one of the most important factors in a child's development.

Re:Though spoiled is a likely side effect...

[Anonymous Coward]

Read the article, but the PDF threw a "Forbidden" error.

While true that quality time trumps quantity of time, however there is still a minimum quantity necessary. Ask any teacher the number one difference between students that succeed and those that don't, and their answer will be parental involvement.

My parents were both high school teachers. My father vividly recalls a shift during his tenure. The school district in which he taught covered suburbs as well as farms. Once upon a time, calls to the parents needed to begin with "how nice their child is in class" lest little Johnny would come to school the next day with a limp. Fast forward a few decades, either little Johnny's mom worked three jobs and dad wasn't in the picture or the parents didn't care. In both cases, little Johnny suffered, as did the rest of Johnny's classmates as managing his (mis-)behavior commanded the bulk of class time.

That's not to say little Johnny won't grow up to be successful, but teachers remember a lot about their students. Teachers can tell you how often they are surprised to hear one of their "worst" students turned out to be great, and vice-versa.

Re:Though spoiled is a likely side effect...

[quenda]

Which does raise an interesting point as to whether or not the effect is due to spending additional time with children or is merely a byproduct of the fact that those who can take time off to spend with their children are far more likely to be wealthy, which is more responsible for the outcome.

Is wealth a direct cause, or just another correlate?

More likely I think, parents who care enough to take time off work are going to be better parents.

Its a bit like parenting books. Whether they have useful advice or just repeat what you know, the sort of people who read parenting books are going to be better parents.

But what is a good parent? Other studies have found that kids growing up in a house with lots of books do better, independently of whether the parents read much to their kids.
So much of what we used to think was parenting, turns out out looking more and more like genetics.

Re:Though spoiled is a likely side effect...

[quenda]

I immediately found an article from earlier this year reporting on a recent study which reported the opposite results, i.e., that time spent with children didn't matter.

You did not look very hard - that article is talking about something very different, kids 3 to 11. Babies and toddlers need a lot more attention than older kids.
It seems quite possible we are neglecting our babies, and overindulging older children who could be more independent, e.g. ride a bicycle, walk or catch a bus to school, friends and soccer instead of being chauffeured everywhere.

Re:Though spoiled is a likely side effect...

[AthanasiusKircher]

You did not look very hard - that article is talking about something very different, kids 3 to 11. Babies and toddlers need a lot more attention than older kids.

Not only that. The article implies that extra time with kids is mostly detrimental when parents are stressed during that time. Extrapolating to infants, where Moms of newborns tend to be really stressed, it seems like having an extra hand (like a father) around would significantly reduce maternal stress, which the quoted study implies would be a good thing.

Re:Though spoiled is a likely side effect...

[sociocapitalist]

Actually, I think there's an opposite effect going on. I'd say the children born to wealthy parents, but not unbelieveably so, have the best chances. Being the child of Zuckerberg or Gates means you're growing up in a very unique position which isn't necessarily good for a child's development. It becomes hard to have "normal" social interactions, you have a completely out of whack understanding and relationship with money, etc. This goes even more so as a teenager, where the other teens will know who your parents are, which will heavily color their interactions with you. Plus, many of those parents tend to be extremely busy and it's very well known that parental presence is one of the most important factors in a child's development.

It all depends on what 'normal means. I'm sure there are plenty of other rich or rich enough brats in this child's future social circle that 'normal' will just have a different meaning - as our 'normal' is different than the 'normal' of those born on the streets of, for example, Somalia.

Missed opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Zuckerberg could have found a look-alike and paid him to play "father" for 2 months. Will the kid see a difference? Makes a nice study.

Re:Missed opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Jessie Eisenberg?

Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this news? Don't most parents take (m|p)aternity leave when they have newborns?

Re:Why is this news?

[Opportunist]

If they can afford it, yes. How many can these days?

Re:Why is this news?

[Troed]

I took out 19 months with our firstborn - from when he was 4 months old.

Of course, I'm Swedish. Anyone who would only take two months would be seen as quite uninterested in their children.

(In Sweden you get 480 days per child, to be divided as you see fit between mother and father. 120 of those days are however locked, divided up as 60 each, to each parent. You get 80% of your salary during parental leave, capped to a maximum which is far far below what anyone in "IT" makes)

Re:Why is this news?

[rmdingler]

If they can afford it, yes. How many can these days?

I got my ass handed to me for missing half a day for the unanticipated and rather sudden onset labor of my firstborn, so.... certainly not all of us.

GP may be from a nation with scandinavian-like healthcare.

Re:Why is this news?

[Opportunist]

But at least you get money. And let's be honest, it's enough to get by on it. People ain't so lucky in more "conservative" run countries.

Ain't it interesting? Conservatives are hell bent on babies being born. But after they're born, they don't give a shit about them anymore.

Re:Why is this news?

[Rei]

Our system isn't as generous as yours (Iceland), but it's still worlds beyond what America offers (no paid leave, and only rather limited unpaid leave to mothers).

I'm of mixed feelings. On one hand, I think it's a great thing to do for parents and for the kids. On the other hand, as someone who's infertile, it's kind of frustrating. I never complain to anyone in person, absolutely not. But I see all of my coworkers in their 20s and 30s having one child after the next and spending a large chunk of their time on the job... off the job.... often taking their leave in vacation homes or overseas.... I mean, I understand why the time is given, I totally sympathize... but underneath it sort of feels unfair to people who can't have children, to have such a massive benefit for those who can.

Re:Why is this news?

[Cederic]

..and you didn't quit on the spot? Who wants to work for that much of a cunt?

Re:Why is this news?

[PopeRatzo]

Of course, I'm Swedish.

Well, there you have it. Here in the US we'd rather have our children raised by wolves, because we have to fill all those privatized prisons.

Re:Why is this news?

[Troed]

On the topic of can vs cannot, the same benefits are of course available for those who adopt.

Another question would be regarding those who choose vs don't choose to become parents, and there I see it as a question of society spending money on investing in itself.

(As to those who think it's a walk in the park to be on parental leave ... everyone I know, including myself, considers coming back to work to be a very welcome vacation ... )

Re:Why is this news?

[ranton]

Why is this news? Don't most parents take (m|p)aternity leave when they have newborns?

I guess this is why this really is news that matters. Because paternity leave is a very rare thing in the US. You may live in Europe where this being news sounds like nonsense, which more Americans need to realize. Less than 15% of US employers offer paternity leave, and that is almost entirely exclusive to white collar professions. Paternity leave tends to be about two weeks here, as opposed to months in more progressive European countries.

Re:Why is this news?

[thegarbz]

I got my ass handed to me for missing half a day for the unanticipated and rather sudden onset labor of my firstborn, so.... certainly not all of us.

In most sane western countries that would be grounds for taking your employer to court. Although I do know someone in Australia who also got into trouble, but he did so because he called in sick rather than take a separately accountable section of leave specifically intended for such purposes. I should mention the guy was an American expat, clearly not used to the fact that in some countries employees have some rights.

Re:Why is this news?

[rmdingler]

Well, I'd just had this baby, in a down economy, in which I possessed no marketable skill.

I was a bit of a poor young cunt myself.

Re:Why is this news?

[Rei]

Yes, because one just goes out and adopts - it's not like it's a multiyear process, often full of heartbreak, to get a child who more likely than not will grow up with identity issues and spend a lot of time seeing you as "not their real parent". I've been a stepmother before. It was a pretty heartbreaking experience. You know, they start crying over something and you try to console them and they start crying I want my mommy, and you reassure them that you're there for them, and they start crying, no, *MY* mommy, my *REAL* mommy.... think I really want those sort of experiences ever again? Sorry, I've just been reading some articles written from people who were adopted as children, about their attitudes toward the whole thing, and it's turning me even more off of ever considering that route.

Surrogacy is at least a bit closer. But it's illegal here. Some people pretend that they had a child overseas, but they can be investigated over it. In most cases it means spending years having to try to adopt your own child - and meanwhile having no rights over anything at all related to them.

Re:Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

How can one not afford something that is free?

Re:Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah and remind me again how many Facebooks came out of Sweden lately. Or anything else of note for that matter. Thought so.

Re:Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

You get 80% of your salary during parental leave, capped to a maximum which is far far below what anyone in "IT" makes

That sounds quite unfair: if you earn a lot, and thus pay a larger percentage of your income in taxes, you get a smaller percentage of your income for parental leave?

Re:Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that really necessary in a country where almost everything is a crime and guilt is determined by the gut feelings of a few random people?

Re:Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

No Facebooks. But Ikea, Volvo, Abba, Ericsson, just to mention a few things which are just a bit more impressive than Facebook in my opinion.

Re:Why is this news?

[Opportunist]

So we can get furniture, entertainment and communication but no surveillance?

*sigh* See? Typical socialist thinking. They just don't know what people really want!

Re:Why is this news?

[PopeRatzo]

Is that really necessary in a country where almost everything is a crime and guilt is determined by the gut feelings of a few random people?

Bless your heart.

Re: Why is this news?

[kenh]

conservatives are hellbent on babies being born. But after they're born, they don't give a shit about them anymore.

They are also 'hellbent' on personal responsibility and avoiding unwanted pregnancies, last I checked.

You may see a moral equivalence between 'contraception' and 'abortion', other's don't - some folks (like your parents) think of that developing fetus in the girl you slept with as their future grandchild, not a 'mistake'...

Re: Why is this news?

[kenh]

I got my ass handed to me for missing half a day for the unanticipated and rather sudden onset labor of my firstborn, so.... certainly not all of us.

Really? My boss never has a problem when I just don't show up for work for half a day... Perhaps you should have called the boss while your partner was in labor, or were you heavily invested in reminding her to 'breathe'?

Re: Why is this news?

[kenh]

Because paternity leave is a very rare thing in the US. You may live in Europe where this being news sounds like nonsense, which more Americans need to realize. Less than 15% of US employers offer paternity leave,

And what percentage of the workforce is employed by that 15% of employers? For example, the US Gov't would count as ONE employer, yet they employ some 4 million workers...

and that is almost entirely exclusive to white collar professions.

There are very few 'blue collar' jobs in America, our manufacturing base having migrated to all those other countries with lower labor costs (not Sweden, Norway, England, France, Germany, etc.).

Paternity leave tends to be about two weeks here, as opposed to months in more progressive European countries.

You know, a worker could SAVE a portion of their income during the pregnancy to cover living expenses when they take advantage of the federal program know as the Family Leave Act - why must your employer provide healthcare, paternity leave, and retirement planning? Are US Citizens incapable of taking care of their own needs?

If you can't afford to put some money aside during your pregnancy, how are you going to be able to provide for the added expenses when the child is born?

Re: Why is this news?

[rmdingler]

Really? My boss never has a problem when I just don't show up for work for half a day... Perhaps you should have called the boss while your partner was in labor, or were you heavily invested in reminding her to 'breathe'?

Nope...that was me at the wheel of the Skylark, above the speed limit with the emergency flashers on, hoping to get pulled over so I could use the line.

Re:Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

Trolls will troll, but names that should be somewhat recognizable even for someone in the US tech sector could be Skype, Spotify, MySQL, SoundCloud, Dice, Mojang, King, Starbreeze, Paradox, and not least The Pirate Bay :-) . In addition they have quite a few companies that are not really operating on a large scale in the US (yet), but are doing well in other markets; for example Klarna, iZettle, Yubico.

Not entirely crap for a country with the population of New Jersey, while providing the social benefits as mentioned in the thread. They are doing quite well in some sort of "per capita" measurement of technical excellence (probably the global leader, really). Something seems to be working, even though/because of their different work model.

Re:Why is this news?

[Osgeld]

I took 4 days, cause that's all the vacation time I had and in the US no one is going to pay you

Re: Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

has nothing to do with abortion and personal responsibility, if you do have a baby you better have the fucker then get your ass right back to work the next day, you also better have a pile of money and good insurance or else tough shit, it must have been a "mistake"

Re: Why is this news?

[corychristison]

Ouch.

I was laid off a week before the due date of my second child.

I am Canadian. Birthing a child in a hospital doesn't cost anything.

We ate into most of our savings due to newborn costs (diapers, formula, etc). On the plus side we received plenty of free mildly used clothes from my neices.

From there I focussed my time into my side business and made it my full time job. I was so put off by dedicating years of my life to a business then when I needed the employment most, they let me go.

Looking back it was probably the best thing to ever happen to us because now, 5 years later, my kids are both in school, my wife is working part time while I manage the business full time from home. Lots of leisure time available for the family. It's nice.

Re:Why is this news?

[Troed]

Music streaming service Spotify announced it will offer six months of paid parental leave to full-time employees.

Guess which country spawned Spotify?

http://time.com/4120828/spotif...

Re:Why is this news?

[Hognoxious]

If you didn't stab the bastard in the back when the opportunity presented itself, I hope you do when it does.

Re:Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but this is Sweden, so you do not "earn a lot" as an employee. Ever. Doctor median salary is 64k USD per year. Before taxes. IT salaries are worse.

Re:Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

So far I'm into my third year of paternity leave, thanks to a large inheritance that we decided was worth spending on time off rather than a bigger house, more junk, or an early retirement. I don't care if I have to retire 10 years later, having the first 4-5 years with my children definitely seems worth it so far.

Then again, I think that choosing to work 50+ hour weeks when you're already a multi-billionaire is essentially a mental illness. If I were in Zuckerberg's position, I would just step down and enjoy life with my family. Yes, I understand being driven and wanting to continue working on something important you created, but that's rarely the true motivator. Only taking two months paternity leave for someone in his position is only worth praising because it's so rare, otherwise it would be disgustingly inadequate.

Re: Why is this news?

[ranton]

And what percentage of the workforce is employed by that 15% of employers? For example, the US Gov't would count as ONE employer, yet they employ some 4 million workers...

I couldn't find the stats for fathers, but overall only 11% of workers are covered by paid family leave policies (source). Since paid maternity leave is more common than paid paternity leave, the numbers for fathers would be less than 11%.

[...] why must your employer provide healthcare, paternity leave, and retirement planning? Are US Citizens incapable of taking care of their own needs?

With income inequality growing at an alarming rate, yes most citizens are incapable of taking care of their own needs. That is why safety net programs exist. Highly skilled and paid workers like myself, and probably yourself given your lack of sympathy, have careers where we are able to either demand better benefits or simply provide them for ourselves. That is not the world the vast majority of people in any country live in.

If you can't afford to put some money aside during your pregnancy, how are you going to be able to provide for the added expenses when the child is born?

You could add whatever spin you want to on this topic. How about, if you have to dip into your savings to cover for lost wages in the immediate months after birth, how are you going to be able to provide for the added expenses in the first few years of the child's life?

If we lived in a world where CEOs made 10x what their janitors make, there wouldn't be much need for safety net programs. We don't live in that world.

Re:Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

The world isn't and can't be 100% fair. Some people will benefit in some ways, others in other ways.

And in fact, parents are actually getting the raw end of the deal here, because -humanity requires new humans to survive- just as you will need people to take care of you (and keep society going in general) when you're older. Getting a few months off work in exchange for 18+ years of raising a child doesn't really balance out.

Re:Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm going to assume you're actually pro-Swedish and are just trolling for compliments, because Sweden probably has one of the highest per-capita ratios in the world of international corporations, musicians, film, literature, scientific publications, and more. They have a population of 9.6 million against America's 321 million.

Re: Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

The window for having a child is while you're still young, before you've had a chance to save up a lot of money. Plus, you sort of answered your own question in the last line. You're already saving up for the additional expense of a child, and then you need to have additional funds to cover not working... plus you should probably still have some rainy day funds, especially now that you have another human to care for... where do you expect all these savings to come from?

Additionally, FMLA technically protects you from losing your job, but in many cases they'll just make up an excuse to fire you when you get back. In most states they don't even need to give an excuse, they just need to make sure it doesn't look like it was because of your FMLA leave. And it's not even necessarily the same job you come back to, since they're allowed to move you to any equal position, so you'll often get stuck with the shittiest work possible when you get back just to drive you away.

Re:Why is this news?

[Harlequin80]

But it makes the news there. In many many other places around the world paid parental leave is simply a given. Also why is it restricted to full time employees?

Re:Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm Belgian and I got exactly zero days. I even had bring in a doctors note as a proof that my wife needed assistance when she give birth or my employer had a reason to fire me (without any right for me to fall back on social security).

Re:Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you talking about? I live in America and I get 6 months of paid paternity.

Re:Why is this news?

[sociocapitalist]

Our system isn't as generous as yours (Iceland), but it's still worlds beyond what America offers (no paid leave, and only rather limited unpaid leave to mothers).

I'm of mixed feelings. On one hand, I think it's a great thing to do for parents and for the kids. On the other hand, as someone who's infertile, it's kind of frustrating. I never complain to anyone in person, absolutely not. But I see all of my coworkers in their 20s and 30s having one child after the next and spending a large chunk of their time on the job... off the job.... often taking their leave in vacation homes or overseas.... I mean, I understand why the time is given, I totally sympathize... but underneath it sort of feels unfair to people who can't have children, to have such a massive benefit for those who can.

Perhaps the solution would be to make things more fair, not necessarily by taking away parental benefits but by granting you and others benefits due to your personal circumstances.

Re:Why is this news?

[RuffMasterD]

Don't forget LELO vibrators. Really really good vibrators. Facebook, or vibrators? It's a hard choice ;-)

Re:Why is this news?

[pnutjam]

you misspelled television.

lolwut?

[Chris Johnson]

Wait, what? I clicked on this in my Twitter feed without looking, thinking it was going to be the Onion.

Who gives the slightest of fucks?

[waspleg]

Will their be breaking news on his morning dump schedule?

Should we wait with baited breath for inane updates on other billionaire man children and assorted tech sociopath assholes?

He has a penis. It works. That's too bad. Thanks for the update /.

Re:Who gives the slightest of fucks?

[Anonymous Coward]

slashdot is to tech news what dinosaurs are to broccoli

Re:Who gives the slightest of fucks?

[hcs_$reboot]

He has a penis. It works.

Until the DNA test, nothing could be less certain.

Re:Who gives the slightest of fucks?

[Anonymous Coward]

He has a penis. It works.

That's more than we can say for you.

Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[blahbooboo]

It's great when all these very wealthy/successful companies can afford to just hand out massive benefits , but for the majority of companies that are no way as successful (and also provide most of the jobs in the USA), they simply can't afford to pay people for months while not working

Re:Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that in every other developed country in the world, this is considered a basic human right that *every* company, small and large, can somehow afford to "hand out".

Re:Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean the countries with permanent double-digit unemployment that are being bankrupted by their welfare states?

Re:Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean "is forced to." Let us know when you actually own a company.

Re:Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[Anonymous Coward]

I work for an incredibly progressive company in the US, the only thing my boss said when I texted him a picture of my kid was "Don't forget to fill out a PTO form when you get back."

Re:Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[Espectr0]

These benefits should be at the federal level. In my country Venezuela here's what happens:

You get paid vacations, 15 days per year, one additional day per year worked
Maternity leave is paid and up to 8 months, and can be divided in pre maternity and post maternity. Women mix them up with their vacations to extend the time with their babies.
Companies must provide a daily food allowance benefit (sounds good on paper, but inflation is so high, it doesn't do much)

Every company with at least (20 employees i think) must do this

Re:Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[Anonymous Coward]

ever actually look at other countries?
if 195 of the worlds 198 countries can afford it, why is the US so special that it alone among advanced nations cannot afford it?

Re:Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[Anonymous Coward]

You say that like not having to work is a bad thing.

Re:Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[Solandri]

that *every* company, small and large, can somehow afford to "hand out".

It's a competition thing. If nobody is required to do it, then one company that cuts paid maternity/paternity leave gains a competitive advantage and can price its products lower. Other companies then have to follow suit to remain economically competitive. Eventually nobody has paid maternity/paternity leave anymore. The ones which refused to give it up were eliminated from the marketplace due to being unable to compete.

If you require all companies to provide it, then yes the companies can afford to "hand it out". But the cost is built into the system and you pay for it in other ways (higher prices, fewer job opportunities which means higher unemployment, slower technological advancement). I happen to think it's a worthwhile tradeoff in this case - family should come first, work second; not the other way around. But don't fool yourself into thinking it comes without cost just because everyone is required to provide it.

Re: Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[kenh]

The economy is just a little messed up in Venezula last I looked... Maybe you should re-think that as a positive example.

Oh, and don't confuse the government 'offering' paternal time off with government 'forcing employers' to offer paternal time off. Politicians like to take credit for forcing employers to offer benefits at the employer's expense.

In some cases countries do offer 'unemployment'-type paternity benefits that amount to a fraction of the workers normal pay.

Re:Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of the countries with somewhat decent parental leave systems haven't had double-digit unemployment in decades. However, the only western country that has no parental leave whatsoever did have 10% unemployment a few years ago.

Re: Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[kenh]

The math in 'every other developed country' is the same as here - offering these types of benefits increase labor costs and and reduces employment opportunities.

How many months of paid paternity leave do Foxconn workers in China get?

How much free health care do Mexican factory workers get?

When an Indian woman that works in a sweat shop sewing together t-shirts gets pregnant, how much paid time off does she get?

Re:Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[phantomfive]

You say that like not having to work is a bad thing.

The GP thinks not having to work is a great thing. It's paying for other people to not work that bothers him.

Re:Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[Anonymous Coward]

The company does not pay it. The government (i.e., the taxpayer) does.

Re:Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[AmiMoJo]

That's the deal. The company gets a supply of educated, healthy workers in exchange for providing them with certain mandatory stuff. If the company can't afford it then it can't expect society to just keep giving it all those benefits for free. Both sides have to keep up their end of the deal.

Re:Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[AmiMoJo]

15 days vacation isn't much... In the UK, like most of Europe, you get 28 days plus public holidays minimum, although there is no mandatory increases.

If you get sick on your holiday, or there is a tsunami or something, it doesn't count.

Re: Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[Anonymous Coward]

But think about the shareholders!!!

Re:Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[larkost]

While there are certainly some countries that have guaranteed maternity leave, and are struggling, there does not seem to be any correlation between the two:

- Germany has 14 weeks at 100%, and 156 weeks at 67% to be shared between the parents, a 4.5% unemployment rate, and is considered to be doing far better economically that the USA.

- Norway has more than 35 weeks at at least 80%, a 4.1% unemployment rate, and is doing ok.

- Even dipping into less-well-off countries it is hard to find what you are talking about: Brazil has an unemployment rate of 7.9% and 17 weeks at 100%.

Germany was a ringer, but I chose the other two at random, looking for countries that could be having problems here. But given that the U.S. is nearly alone in the developed world for countries that do not have guaranteed maternity benefits, it is hard to find meaningful evidence for your point.

I hate it when people try to use their ideology as a substitute for facts.

Re: Must be nice to be at a wealthy company

[Espectr0]

You are right, our economy isn't just a little messed up, it's very much a lot or most of it. However i do think our labor laws are better than in the US, at least in the matter of the worker's rights.

Unpaid vacations should be banned.

What I'd like to know

[rsilvergun]

is how many contractors FB hires. When companies have super sweet benefits like this they usually use contractor positions to get out of giving them company wide. I can't think of a single major company I haven't seen this done at :(...

Re:What I'd like to know

[thegarbz]

When companies have super sweet benefits like this they usually use contractor positions to get out of giving them company wide.

That's funny from what I recall companies with a large number of contractors do so out of externalising risk (contracting out entire departments to a single other company), or employ contractors AT THE REQUEST OF THE PEOPLE.

Yes that happens quite a lot. I was considering switching to becoming a contractor at my last job because the benefits the company provided were not very relevant to me and not something I intended on being able to cash in on, like a fuel card, despite the fact I cycle to work. Same goes for most of the contractors that don't fit into the outsourced entire department model.

That's been my experience in both of the companies I've worked for listed in the top 10 of the Fortune 500 Global.

Seriously! Slashdot Is Getting Worse.

[Anonymous Coward]

Who knew that Slashdot could get any worse. But, here I am proved wrong again.

Maybe they could post a story about the the Zuckerbaby Instagram account. 'Dirty diaper! So many likes.'

How about some news for Nerds? Stuff that doesn't splatter?

Take It Down

[PopeRatzo]

If Zuckerberg really wanted to give his kid a better outcome, he'd dissolve Facebook immediately and give all his money to the EFF.

Why the negative spin on it?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Facebook, so you just have to say something negative about it, right? This site is becoming such a pile of shit, jesus christ.

Re:Why the negative spin on it?

[PopeRatzo]

It's Facebook, so you just have to say something negative about it, right? This site is becoming such a pile of shit, jesus christ.

Jeff, you're supposed to be on paternity leave. Put down the computer and go tend to your wee bairn ya doss cunt.

Re:Why the negative spin on it?

[Bing Tsher E]

An article about fuckenberg is the equivalent of a Kardashian news story, translated to Slashdot. So why shouldn't we react negatively to it?

Who cares

[Anonymous Coward]

With this guys money, I pretty much think his child will have more opportunities then most and what is a couple months early on when no doubt he will have a nanny and full staff to change those droopy drawers. Its pathetic to listen to this sap. Don't that him for being such a generous CEO. Thank the ad people and investors for that.

Why do you want to know why?

[wonkey_monkey]

TechCrunch reports that Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg will take two months off from Facebook for paternity leave. Why?

I'll take a wild stab-in-the-dark and guess that it's to help look after his kid. But actually, the answer is (Zuckerberg's posts - his choice - notwithstanding) "none of your business."

No word on why the child will only get 50% of that time

Yeesh. What makes you think you're owed any "word" on this?

Re: Why do you want to know why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who even cares?

What I'd like to know is why you're acting so fired up over this?

Once again, /. is a complete snooze fest.

Re:Why do you want to know why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeesh. What makes you think you're owed any "word" on this?

Because people are hypocritical little twats who pay lipservice to privacy, except when the target is anyone even approaching the lowliest celebrity status.

The reasoning is absurd

[CaptBubba]

He should take the time, but the stated reason why he's taking the time is just silly. I really hope that it was written by a PR person and not Zuck himself.

Not everything a person does needs to be "backed by studies" as some sort of optimal behavior. It is his kid, not an A/B test opportunity.

Who refers to their child as an "outcome"?

[JoeyRox]

Does he think his Kid is one of his PHP scripts?

Good

[Bing Tsher E]

Maybe he'll leave the rest of the world alone for a little while. You do have to feel bad for the kids, though.

Poor billionaire

[nospam007]

I got 12 months in Luxembourg, like everybody else.

Re:Poor billionaire

[Hognoxious]

I only got 8. The judge took pity on me.

Re:Poor billionaire

[Anonymous Coward]

My wife and I both got 12 in Canada. Stupid Quebec prime minister wanted to cut back on that. Fuck that. Now I'm staying home with my kid full time, helping him learn and socialize. He's doing incredibly well and learning a ton.

That kid...

[Anonymous Coward]

Is probably going to end up doing every type of drugs available out there with the money of its parents.

How is "Facebook" a company?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's considered prestigious to work there. People work there without killing themselves. Are we living in an idiocracy?

If Mark Zuckerberg were a normal person...

[kenh]

No word on why the child will only get 50% of that time â" maybe that's what the gains chart suggested as a good tradeoff â" or if expectant parents who apply to send their children to Zuckerberg's new Primary School, which aims to "help children from underserved communities reach their full potential," will be expected to make a similar commitment.

If Mark Zuckerberg were a regular person, I could see taking only half the time offered initially, reserving the right to take the additional time if the need arises I. The remaining first ten months of the baby's first year...

Being Mark Zuckerberg (and not a "normal person") I imagine he could choose to take as much time off as often as he likes, that he's taking two months of is probably as much his way of trying to encourage employees to take advantage of the program as it is to give his own child the best outcome for these vitally important first months.

A/B Testing: Marissa Mayer Took Two WEEKS Leave

[theodp]

Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer took a measly two weeks maternity leave.

Re:A/B Testing: Marissa Mayer Took Two WEEKS Leave

[hambone142]

Yahoo would have been better off if she became a stay at home mom.

NO NO NO

[laurencetux]

if you go through the whole process of fathering children you have a bunch of reasons to do a Good Job

1 Automaitc Minions
2 Kids are great for hidden vectors (and Females get a +15 on Social Engineering)
3 Make sure they are on YOUR SIDE
4 Enabling Backup/longer term planning

im sure there are more geek reasons if one thinks

C!=C

[ShanghaiBill]

I believe this is a case of correlation rather than causation. Taking paternity leave is likely to be correlated with being a good dad, but it seems unlikely that it is the paternity leave itself that causes that. Newborns crave human contact. But until the are about 6 months old, they don't really care who that human is. Besides, for the first 2 months, they spend 20+ hours a day sleeping.

When my kids were born I arranged to work from home 2 days per week, and wrote code while the kid was sleeping. We saved money on daycare, and I treasure the memories of spending time with the babies, but I doubt if my kids are really doing any better because if it.

Re: C!=C

[Anonymous Coward]

So you don't think that learning the non verbal communication with you child and growing your sense of empathy for another caregiver's workload would improve the future outcome? Sometimes the child benefits from improvements in the *caregivers* putting in time to improve their skills and the general environment.

Re:C!=C

[FlyHelicopters]

When my kids were born I arranged to work from home 2 days per week, and wrote code while the kid was sleeping. We saved money on daycare, and I treasure the memories of spending time with the babies, but I doubt if my kids are really doing any better because if it.

Of course they are doing better because of it...

Because YOU are a better Dad... YOU have empathy for them, for your wife, and you have memories of your children at that age, you'll always be there for them in ways that Dad's who WEREN'T there won't.

Re: C!=C

[avatar avatar]

Yeah, confounding variables abound here...for starters, we can ask, 'what do dads who can comfortably take 2 moths off have in common?' Answer: an extremely comfortable, secure lifestyle. Of course their kids will be better off.

In related news

[codeButcher]

For us mundanes, preventing your children from accessing social media will probably make for even better outcomes.... Not sure if they could get together a statistically significant sample for that though, so its just my feeling.

I remember

[Anonymous Coward]

the first to months of my life when my parents took off of work...oh wait, no I don't. I am guessing some studies are flawed..

Re:I remember

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, you're posting on Slashdot on a Sunday morning with incorrect capitalization and spelling, so somewhere your life took a wrong turn.

Re: I remember

[Anonymous Coward]

ah, the Sunday grammar police...looks like you took a wrong turn in life long before the op.

Re: I remember

[Anonymous Coward]

I am guessing your parents didn't take the first two months off when you were born...criticizing people on a Sunday for grammar...lol

The first

[Anonymous Coward]

2 months is the important part, everything else is just optimizing your outcome. I suggest less pipes or switching from perl to python.

Green With Envy

[Anonymous Coward]

I work in the aviation industry. My employer only speaks FMLA. There is no 'vacation', 'maternity leave', 'sabbatical', 'sick days' . . .

Uhm..?

[fluffernutter]

Like there is any chance whatsoever that the child of a billionaire has a chance at a less than optimal outcome?

What a bunch of B.S.

[RogueWarrior65]

For hundreds, perhaps thousands of years, fathers never took time off when their kids were born. One can also make the case that the fathers of the "Greatest Generation" (both the parents and the children of that generation) never took time off and yet they were the greatest generation. By the same token, one can make the case that this current crop of breeders are total pu$$ies.

Re:What a bunch of B.S.

[sociocapitalist]

For hundreds, perhaps thousands of years, fathers never took time off when their kids were born. One can also make the case that the fathers of the "Greatest Generation" (both the parents and the children of that generation) never took time off and yet they were the greatest generation. By the same token, one can make the case that this current crop of breeders are total pu$$ies.

For hundreds, perhaps thousands of years, we had no real medicine and thought that a good stink was good for keeping the demons away. No doubt those people would think that we who bathe regularly are total pussies too.

Just because it was done in the past doesn't mean that it was a good thing.

Re:What a bunch of B.S.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bathing daily is, from a hygiene point of view, excessive. It suits the manufacturers of bath and shower products to suggest that "once or twice a day" is normal and thereby make it so. You'd be just fine with say, a shower on Monday and Saturday, plus any time you notice you're actually dirty. But that would tear a whole in the profits for Unilever and other businesses. "Frequent Use" shampoo in particular is basically only better than using a regular shampoo every day. It's worse than the much easier option of not washing your hair every damn day.

Most people's medicine cabinets are 90% junk. Vitamins they're not deficient in, pills that are basically just caffeine and flavouring, and a few "quick fixes" for things you ought to be handling without drugs because they can't fix the underlying problem, such as inadequate sleep. The most useful "real" drugs in there will usually be NSAIDs (fairly effective pain killers) which only treat a symptom.

The Greatest Generation are called that because of what happened to them, there's no reason to think that these people in particular were somehow special, though that is certainly how it's framed in the book. They suffered an economic failure, and then fought in a World War. That's why they're "greatest". For what that's worth.

How about his employees?

[zoward]

I'd be more impressed if he was offering the same benefit to his employees.

Re:How about his employees?

[sociocapitalist]

I'd be more impressed if he was offering the same benefit to his employees.

So be impressed. You could even have read the summary which stated "At Facebook we offer our U.S. employees up to 4 months of paid maternity or paternity leave which they can take throughout the year."

As the 'up to' could mean that the claim is actually bullshit, I googled for a few seconds and found this:
"A Facebook spokesman, Slater Tow, said in an e-mail that the company offers four months of paid leave to both mothers and fathers, including same-sex couples, as long as they are full-time employees. The policy also covers the adoption of a child. Plus, new parents get $4,000 in “baby cash” for each child born to them or adopted."
http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com...

Meh...

[sycodon]

...a billion dollars will go a long way towards a "better outcome".

Sure, my kid'll stomp his

[interval1066]

Yeah. Thank god Zucker's thinking ahead because my brat is getting ready to simply EXCEL in phys ed. (To my great disappointment my son is moving to Reno, NV to teach phys ed. for $30,000 a yr) look out Zuckerberg, phys ed is coming for ya.)
I know, he could be headed there to deal meth but I did have higher hopes for the kid. I don't think the Zuckerberg brood needs much more in the help department than anything more his billionaire parents can give him.

Re:Sure, my kid'll stomp his

[Anonymous Coward]

It's outsource-proof. He learned it from watching you!

Ok

[Anonymous Coward]

The child's father is a billionaire, the kid will be just fine.

He won't ACTUALLY stop working

[Tony Isaac]

If you've ever known a business owner or executive, you know that they never stop working, even when on vacation or leave. To them, "vacation" means they only work 8-10 hours a day!

Good

[Anonymous Coward]

His child is one of a special kind, a born One Percenter. His generation will oversee the end of the great purges that will consign the 99 Percenters to the mass graves once automation makes us useless to the Ruling Elite. He and his own kids will inherit a post-scarcity paradise where only the heir of the wealthy will have a place.

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[account_deleted]

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[account_deleted]

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But How is Zuckerberg's Retirement Fund Doing?

[Pherdnut]

This is the question that keeps me up at night. Does he even have a Roth IRA?