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London's Deputy Mayor On Ditching Diesel
dkatana writes: During an interview in Barcelona last week, at the Smart Cities Congress, London's Deputy Mayor Matthew Pencharz said that he doesn't believe diesel cars belong in cities. He said, "I don't believe that for the urban setting, for light vehicles, diesel is the right thing," He added, "I don't think it is the right thing if you are an urban driver, stopping-starting in traffic all day, not going very far, not zipping along at 50 mph on the motorway. [I think] diesel is not the right technology." He also blamed the European Commission for being too lenient with emission standards and conformity factors. "The conformity factors the Commission [has recently approved] are not as good as we would like, clearly, because we are going to have the same problem again," he said. "The VW scandal has focused attention on a problem we hardly knew about, and it has raised to the top the public policy of failure of dieselization across the European Union, and the UK too, combined with the spectacular failure of the Euro engine standards," he said. "[The scandal] has focused our minds on the fact that we need to accelerate the way out of diesel."
urban driver, stopping-starting in traffic all day, not going very far
Kinda the sweet spot for hybrid-electric drives, no?
Someone had to do it.
IIRC diesel engines are extremely efficient when idle. So much so, that unlike with gas engines, it doesn't make sense to shut them down if they are going to be idling for a few minutes.
Would be to make cars that somehow use dihydrogen monoxide as fuel. Kinda like trains.
Diesel is actually much better for fuel economy in start/stop traffic. If we convert all of these vehicles to SI, then there will just be an increase in fine particulate, and carcinogenic combustion by-products. These are known to be equally, if not more harmful.that diesel particulate. I don't see any evidence involved in the policy making here - at least, if there is, it isn't being reported in this article.
I think not just diesel but petrol and gas (heating, cooking) should be ditched, too. Too much money goes to Anti-Humanity State from the sale of fossil things. Otherwise Europe might go down in a few years.
Cars built around technology that supports diesel can drive mind boggling distances on a single tank.
I guess what is good for a consumer is bad for a taxer.
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
This sounds like just another British euro hater who does information without substance. Just ignore that.
This is a media frenzy.
Modern diesel cars are not the bad guys.
In most mines, all types of gasoline equipment are usually prohibited because of the gasoline exhaust dangers.
All equipment are usually diesel or just pure electric.
While modern diesel exhaust are irritating, they are far less dangerous than gasoline equivalents.
Just more political gas. Another hack that refuses to engage mind before mouth, he apparently knows little or nothing about the subject or emissions. The VW issue is about gaming the system for greed illegally and little about diesel efficiency or comparative pollution levels. Diesel engines have always been more efficient than gasoline (petrol) engines, the emissions are just different from each other. He is just trying to gain some favor from equally stupid constituents, in short he's a politician. What else would expect from such a fool.
Ahhhh, desperately trying to denigrate diesel in favour of petrol in the face of a rapidly falling oil price. Good luck with that.
unfortunately the next thing will be the 24x7 NHS. The only 'fact' the politicians have is that more people die at weekends. They don't really know why but the solution will be to put more doctors on shift at weekends and dilute the weekday service. I guess its too much trouble to do evidence-based goverment.
If you got the damn bikes of the road, the diesel vehicles would pollute far less.
And, as for public transport - sure, take your desktop computer, server or laser printer (or even your weekly supermarket shopping) under your arm on London transport in the rush hour. You can post the video on Youtube afterwards.
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Gasoline engines are prohibited at a lot of industrial sites not because of the exhaust but because the fuel itself - unlike diesel - its highly volatile and highly flammable. So not only can it poison in a confined space, its also highly likely to cause an explosion if there's a spark.
"Diesel produce larger particles which are easier to filter."
Wrong. As well as large soot particles it produces particles 2.5 um in size which are almost impossible to filter and need to be burned away.
In the UK anyway.
And diesel IS a filthy fuel. Even most new cars don't meet the limits set outside the test lab and once the car is 2nd or 3rd hand and isn't being maintained properly or if its a van thats been thrashed all its life it'll start belching black shit out of its exhaust on acceleration (which is barely tested in the MOT). I see these vehicles every day on the road.
Plug-in cars only work in an environment where you have the opportunity to plug-in your car. That seems obvious, but culture, city design/evolution and housing regulations have only made plugging in possible in "some" places.
For example, in the town I live in, most houses have drive way parking, thus a plug-in is very simple to install in your home.
All the nearby towns and cities mainly have on-street parking, thus you have no-where to plug-in. Yes there may be some street chargers near by, but they are not reliably accessible for use if the plug-in is your only car.
Plug-in hybrids are great, and I would really like one (looked at the outlander phev, but it only has 2.5 seats in the back and i need 3), but it's not practical for everyone.
That said, if your urban area and work area have plug-in charging point practical availability then great, until then we need a diverse global fueling strategy.
So your argument is rubbish. ALL modern locomotives have electric traction motors whether powered by an onboard diesel engine or from overhead wires. Ok, in some cases thats due to it being simpler and more reliable than having a mechanical drivetrain from the engine to the wheels, but the point is those electric motors can start an X thousand ton train so they won't have much problem with a 30 ton truck.
Why the fuck are you traveling with your desktop and printer on the train? As for shopping, go to the store around the corner.
Basically because diesel cars suck you are complaining about bikes?
If you replaced all those diesels in the city with bikes there would be even less pollution.
Why the fuck are you traveling with your desktop and printer on the train?
Because you want them to use public transportation, and they just bought a new PC and printer.
As for shopping, go to the store around the corner.
The last time I lived in a city, I had a good paying job compared to the median, so I was easily able to live in a part of town where I could literally walk to anything I wanted in ten minutes or less — restaurants, movie theater, various shopping outlets, and work. The first time I lived in a city, I was barely making it. The only things in my neighborhood were two bars, a library (that was nice anyway) and a liquor store. There was no store around the corner for large items. And even if there was, how would I get them home if they were larger than I could carry?
Basically because diesel cars suck you are complaining about bikes?
Actually, they're complaining about bicyclists, not bicycles. Bicycles aren't inherently harmful technology. Bicyclists who don't follow traffic laws, however, are inherently harmful to fuel mileage.
If you replaced all those diesels in the city with bikes there would be even less pollution.
Yes, but you would still have to come up with a method for people to move large packages around if you eliminated all the cars.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
STFU you peon. When a member of the Ruling Elite speaks, you keep your silence and refrain from polluting our thoughts with your so-called have-not "facts".
Diesel to me has always been designed for the agricultural industry, and the transportation industry. It was not until the oil embargo in the late 70's that alternatives like diesel cars took off. At that time diesel was still cheaper then gas and you could farther on a gallon of diesel with those VW Rabbits. Throw a manual gearbox into one and you had the king of MPG. Today I agree, a Prius, or Leaf even would benefit a urban dweller better. Diesel is best used in moving big trucks, busses and large off road vehicles. Not cars.
It just depends on how large the tank is. Airliners can fly to australia on a single tank despite being the most fuel guzzling vehicles on the planet after large ships.
I think he has to ride a bike. Typical politics, knowing nothing about cars or engineering. Speaking for votes only. That is why we are here with all the scandals. These things were known for years about cheating with emissions and how they optimized the software. VW is the first to actually admit they did it intentionally
Yes, but you would still have to come up with a method for people to move large packages around if you eliminated all the cars.
Given that wikipedia shows a London-specific freight tricycle, that should not be much of a problem.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
Petrol is heavily, heavily subsidised in the UK. It is simply a more expensive fuel to refine and more of it needs to be transported when compared with diesel. More petrol gets used, hence more of it is transported. Simple.
There are many explanations for petrol being less expensive than diesel on the UK. None add up. As the oil price falls that puts ever greater pressure on the fuel that is most costly to produce. No surprise that in the UK a lot of disdain has been thrown diesel's way, along with the notion that the pumps could run dry. Laughable.
As for diesel being a filthy fuel, I'm afraid petrol is as well. More so than many realise. Modern petrol engines pump out a great deal more NOx than before due to trying, vainly, to keep up with diesel's efficiency. Also, less diesel per volume needs to be transported which is a factor most don't even consider. Petrol is dead. The next stage beyond diesel are all electric vehicles. Hybrids are hideously expensive to build and maintain.
Three years ago, diesel was reclassified as Category 1 carcinogen which means definitely causing cancer. Not much has been said since...
http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2012/06/14/diesel-fumes-definitely-cause-cancer-should-we-be-worried/
If cities, countries and governments had brains (and balls) they would ban diesel altogether and force the switch to more human-friendly power sources.
Sadly, huge amount of diesel is consumed on transportation of goods and a lot of money is changing hands. Thus, they don't care whether we live or die, as long as they make profit. Just like everything else.
In London, bicycles effectively use about 2MPG of diesel by slowing large numbers of buses and trucks to the position where they are unable to get out of low gear. They are one of the biggest causes of pollution from diesel.
If you got the damn bikes of the road, the diesel vehicles would pollute far less.
Yeah. Damn those bikes. We'll ignore the effect of the pedestrians, lights, junctions, general congestion and all the other factors that contribute to stop/start traffic.
And, as for public transport - sure, take your desktop computer, server or laser printer (or even your weekly supermarket shopping) under your arm on London transport in the rush hour. You can post the video on Youtube afterwards.
You know, the number of times I've taken my desktop computer to work, along with my weekly shopping, makes me glad my town barely has public transport. It would be a daily grind for me to lug all that around.
And I can testify that most of the single occupancy cars blocking the roads have a similarly burdensome commuter load.
Now, that's just silly. You usually don't buy a new PC and printer any more frequently than it is justifiable to rent a car for the occasion, if you can't just simply have it delivered to your doorstep.
We already have! It was a solved problem ages ago. When my parents were young, every respectable grocery store had some kid to do errands for them, including making deliveries to people who couldn't get to the store themselves. And if you care to take a more hands on approach, or maybe feet on, as it were - have you ever heard of a bicycle trolley? Methinks much of your protests stems from a comfortability standpoint, not from what's actually possible.
Given that wikipedia shows a London-specific freight tricycle, that should not be much of a problem.
That will work in London, but it won't in San Francisco or Seattle. Well, naturally, it will in parts. Point is, bicycles are not a complete solution. You will need some kind of vehicle. I note that your link shows a power-assist tricycle for moving stuff bigger than a microwave oven. That's just back to vehicles. My preference would be to install PRT, and have cars which can carry freight. You still need a to-the-door solution, though. Maybe customers could rent a motorized pallet, and send it back to the store on another cargo car.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Yes, but you would still have to come up with a method for people to move large packages around if you eliminated all the cars.
You'd still have cabs and delivery vans in London.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Three years ago, diesel was reclassified as Category 1 carcinogen which means definitely causing cancer. Not much has been said since...
Petrol contains many carcinogens. Diesel may not be perfect, but petrol is worse.
If cities, countries and governments had brains (and balls) they would ban diesel altogether and force the switch to more human-friendly power sources.
If you had brains, you might have realised that there are currently no alternatives that are actually better for the environment.
There is no single concrete word in the paper you cite that confirms what you said.
Well, you decided it was a good idea to treat Bikers as non pedestrians ages ago, before standard bike frames was even introduced.
Now you have to live with that.
It didn't have to be like that at all.
A modern oxygen sensor needs few seconds to put an ECM into a closed loop mode.
Perhaps parent is just a disgruntled Diesel owner.
If cities, countries and governments had brains, they would take smug little shits like you, shoot them in the back of the head and dump them into a landfill. We happen to live in a world that can only survive on trade. The alternative to trade and good transportation is unemployment, poverty and ultimately violence. Those are way worse than a small probability of developing cancer, which will probably get you less through diesel and other fuels than the shit food you eat. Go die in a fire, you shapeless turd.
Yes, but you would still have to come up with a method for people to move large packages around if you eliminated all the cars.
Cut the large packages into smaller packages and distribute them among multiple cyclists! Job done!
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
The problem with diesel engines is that to make them just as clean as gasoline engines, they require a combination of diesel particulate filters and a selective catalytic reduction (SCR) system to make it easier to remove NOx gases--the combination of the two is NOT cheap, as anyone notes from a US-legal Mercedes-Benz or BMW turbodiesel car. And how well will those systems stand up to the type of demanding usage on a taxicab with its heavy stop and go driving.
I wonder why London Mayor Boris Johnson didn't announce a plan as far back as 2010 to phase out the use of diesel engines on London taxicabs and buses in favor of using compressed natural gas (CNG). Here in the USA, many cities are now mandating buses and taxicabs switch to CNG, and in Asia, CNG have been used for buses and taxicabs for many years.
The VW scandal has focused attention on a problem we hardly knew about,
Because, prior to the VW news breaking, nobody was looking for some source of excessive NOx emissions that couldn't be accounted for.
Have gnu, will travel.
... assuming that if the bicycles weren't there that their riders would just disappear, rather than switch to cars.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
diesel was reclassified as Category 1 carcinogen which means definitely causing cancer
Shit. I'd better stop frying my sausages in it.
Why do they try so hard to kill diesels? My thought is that biodiesel is easy and effective and would lead to a loss in tax revenue. The PM10 thing is mostly BS because PM5s are worse, but we haven't been able to detect them for as long because they're so small, and petrol is worse with PM5s than PM10s, and cruder instruments couldn't measure them, so diesels looked worse.
unfortunately the next thing will be the 24x7 NHS. The only 'fact' the politicians have is that more people die at weekends. They don't really know why but the solution will be to put more doctors on shift at weekends and dilute the weekday service. I guess its too much trouble to do evidence-based goverment.
Hardly a mystery if you know the context. Forty percent of sickdays are the day before or after a weekend. 40%! Small wonder people die right after or before then. The clear solution is to eliminate weekends (and lunch breaks) for our poor and sick. That's the only humane thing to do.
Raise the tax on it simple. About the same as a pack of smokes should do.
Perhaps the EU has trouble moving because there is a very strong diesel lobby in France. The rare cases where french politicians raise their voices at EU level seems to be when french lobbies pressure them.
Because you want them to use public transportation, and they just bought a new PC and printer.
Can't they get them delivered? (Yes I realise delivery drivers will need a car/van, but we're not talking complete elimnation of vehicles here, just mass reduction of private use in the city)
So he's complaining because London traffic doesn't move, much. No kidding, it's world famous. All he has to do is set up the city better. Starting with overpasses like Washington DC has with route 395, and other highways that move at 50 MPH, until it's saturated, there's an accident. Next is setting up the lights so they're smart. Then traffic can all wiz by.
Of course, this isn't what they want. They want people to use public transportation. Subway, train, busses. We're all just freight to haul around.
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How else programmatically update it?
"requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015
Hypocrite later admits it - hosts do vs. WFP/SFP not my ware. Users set it not programmatic impersonation. Security wares need it.
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"secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code & said it looked all good" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015
Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes
"yes I've seen the code & yes it is safe." FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...
---
"we should avoid your crap it looks like malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)
60++ reputable sources say different:
64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...
+
32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...
&
Installer-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...
MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...
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Hardcoded favs users provide = REVERSE DNS verified & my ware filters 5,500++ false positives - security site hosts data = false positives filtered.
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Show us where I say it? Not illogic logic but where I say it. I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007
http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...
See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there.
APK
P.S.=>
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Dog-Cow's (old acc't. no new sockpuppet from you) thoughts of your signatures about me
... apk
Coren22 IMPERSONATES RESPECTED MEMBERS OF THE SECURITY COMMUNITY http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
---
"privilege escalation's a bad thing" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015
How else programmatically update it?
"requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015
Hypocrite later admits it - hosts do vs. WFP/SFP not my ware. Users set it not programmatic impersonation. Security wares need it.
---
"secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code & said it looked all good" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015
Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes
"yes I've seen the code & yes it is safe." FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...
---
"we should avoid your crap it looks like malware." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)
60++ reputable sources say different:
64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...
+
32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...
&
Installer-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...
MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...
---
"MiTM... his software provides" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015
Hardcoded favs users provide = REVERSE DNS verified & my ware filters 5,500++ false positives - security site hosts data = false positives filtered.
---
"Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015
Show us where I say it? Not illogic logic but where I say it. I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007
http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...
See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there.
APK
P.S.=>
"modding you down for trolling in your signature" - by Dog-Cow (21281) on Wednesday November 25, 2015
Dog-Cow's (old acc't. no new sockpuppet from you) thoughts of your signatures about me
... apk
Period.
Transit means lower emissions per person, less wasted road space for parking and use.
Electric cars have half the maintenance of other cars, and reduce emissions to nil.
End all tax subsidies and tax exemptions for anything else.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --