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Israel Meets With Google and YouTube To Discuss Censoring Videos (middleeastmonitor.com)

Posted by timothy on from the but-cameras-never-lie dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Various sources report Israel's Deputy Minister for Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely meeting with representatives of Google and YouTube to discuss censoring Palestinian videos believed to incite violence. Original aricle (in Hebrew) from Maariv The open question is how Google and Youtube will define "inciting violence." Currently, all foreign journalists in the Palestinian territories are required to register with the Israeli military, and all footage must be approved through the Israeli Military Censor's office before being released. However, according to the article in alternet individual Palestinians have been uploading videos showing violence by Israeli soldiers, including execution-style killings, and highlighting the living conditions in the territories, which Israeli authorities consider inflammatory.

66 of 529 comments (clear)

  1. Violence! by amiga3D · · Score: 2

    Soldiers committing violence. I can't imagine such a thing.

    1. Re:Violence! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just wait until someone murders your children as you wait for a bus, or throws a brick through your windshield while you're driving to work. You might start to think differently about "soldiers committing violence."

    2. Re:Violence! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not simply violence, it's illegal violence such as crimes against humanity which is punishable by universal law. The violence is targeting civilians that are occupied by Israel on palestinian land.

    3. Re:Violence! by Squiddie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And after Israel gets Google to censor it, that's the only thing you will have. Seriously, Israel thinks reality is "inciting violence." Maybe if their policy wasn't to needlessly murder people, nobody would be violent against them. What else is Israel doing? Oh, they demolish houses of those that commit crimes, but only if they are Arabs. If a Jew does terrorist acts or murders, his house is not demolished, because that would be wrong. Arabs aren't people to these racists.

    4. Re:Violence! by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, more violence sure will solve the problem.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Violence! by Wootery · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'll play devil's advocate:

      Firstly, the mandatory [citation needed].

      Also, for all Israel's crimes, it's fairly clear they aren't set on maximising needless murder. If they wanted to crush every living soul in Palestine, let's be serious: no-one would stop them. But it doesn't happen. Why? Because Israel doesn't want to do that.

      The same certainly can't be said of Hamas, who would kill all Jews if they had their way (they're not exactly shy about this). But being morally superior to Hamas isn't saying much, of course.

    6. Re:Violence! by jrumney · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If the land is Israel, why don't its citizens get to vote in Israeli elections?

    7. Re:Violence! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except it is quite explicitly not theirs by both international and even israeli law. And since the borders are locked down, even if they wanted to leave they would be unable to.

    8. Re:Violence! by nbauman · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'll play devil's advocate:

      Firstly, the mandatory [citation needed].

      OK, I'll give you your citation.

      http://www2.ohchr.org/english/...

      GE.09-15866
      UNITED NATIONS
      A General Assembly Distr.
      GENERAL
      A/HRC/12/48
      25 September 2009
      Original: ENGLISH
      HUMAN RIGHTS COUNCIL
      Twelfth session
      Agenda item 7
      HUMAN RIGHTS IN PALESTINE AND OTHER OCCUPIED ARAB TERRITORIES
      Report of the United Nations Fact-Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict

      7. Deliberate attacks against the civilian population

      43. The Mission investigated 11 incidents in which the Israeli armed forces launched direct attacks against civilians with lethal outcome (chap. XI). The facts in all bar one of the attacks indicate no justifiable military objective. The first two are attacks on houses in the al-Samouni neighbourhood south of Gaza City, including the shelling of a house in which Palestinian civilians had been forced to assemble by the Israeli armed forces. The following group of seven incidents concern the shooting of civilians while they were trying to leave their homes to walk to a safer place, waving white flags and, in some of the cases, following an injunction from the Israeli forces to do so. The facts gathered by the Mission indicate that all the attacks occurred under circumstances in which the Israeli armed forces were in control of the area and had previously entered into contact with or had at least observed the persons they subsequently attacked, so that they must have been aware of their civilian status. In the majority of these incidents, the consequences of the Israeli attacks against civilians were aggravated by their subsequent refusal to allow the evacuation of the wounded or to permit access to ambulances.

      A/HRC/12/48
      page 174
      witness's recollection, there had also been a radio message broadcast by the Israeli armed forces around 12.30 announcing that there would be a temporary cessation of shooting between 1 and 4 p.m. that day, during which time residents of the area were asked to walk to central Jabaliyah.

      773. At about 12.50 p.m., Khalid Abd Rabbo, his wife Kawthar, their three daughters, Souad (aged 9), Samar (aged 5) and Amal (aged 3), and his mother, Hajja Souad Abd Rabbo, stepped out of the house, all of them carrying white flag s. Less than 10 metres from the door was a tank, turned towards their house. Two soldiers were sitting on top of it having a snack (one was eating chips, the other chocolate, according to one of the witnesses). The family stood still, waiting for orders from the soldiers as to what they should do, but none was given. Without warning, a third soldier emerged from inside the tank and started shooting at the three girls and then also at their grandmother. Several bullets hit Souad in the chest, Amal in the stomach and Samar in the back. Hajja Souad was hit in the lower back and in the left arm.

      775. Inside the Abed Rabbo house, Amal and Souad died of their wounds. The family decided that they had to make an attempt to walk to Jabalya and take Samar, the dead bodies of Amal and Souad, and their grandmother to hospital. Khaled and Kawthar Abd Rabbo, and other family members and neighbours carried the girls on their shoulders. Hajja Souad was carried by family and neighbours on a bed. Samar was transferred to al-Shifa hospital and then, through Egypt, to Belgium, where she still is in hospital. According to her parents, Samar suffered a spinal injury and will remain paraplegic for the rest of her life.

      This has been documented by the New York Times, Washington Post, BBC, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and others, who actually interviewed the eyewitnesses. The Israeli government never interviewed the eyewitnesses, and never conducted an investigation that they talked about.

      You can search for "white flag" and get repeated incidents in which Israel

    9. Re:Violence! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If they wanted to crush every living soul in Palestine, let's be serious: no-one would stop them.

      Wow, what kind of pro-Israel echo chamber do you live in?

      I don't know exactly what would happen if Israel embarked on an intense and systematic campaign of genocide (e.g. designed to kill every non-Jew in the West Bank and Gaza in less than a year). But I can guarantee that there would be major international efforts to stop Israel from doing it. At the very least, Israel would face major trade sanctions - along the lines of apartheid South Africa. But there's a good chance that at least a few countries would hit Israel with bombs and missiles. Some might even send in ground troops. The whole situation could easily escalate into a world-wide nuclear war.

      Getting back to the whole incitement/propaganda/censorship topic, I have the sense people in the pro-Israel camp are unaware of how much mainstream opinion is shifting against Israel. They seem to imagine that a century from now Israel will still be happily discriminating against people who are not Jewish - e.g. Jewish (only) "right" of "return". But, at the same time, any hints of discrimination against Jewish people will be absolutely crushed - e.g. public careers destroyed by accusations of "antisemitism".

      As a matter of basic fairness, though, that doesn't seem sustainable. Eventually everyone's going to have to play by the same rules when it comes to discrimination.

    10. Re:Violence! by nbauman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here's your cite. I gave this in more detail above.

      http://www2.ohchr.org/english/...

      GE.09-15866
      UNITED NATIONS
      A General Assembly Distr.
      GENERAL
      A/HRC/12/48
      25 September 2009
      Original: ENGLISH
      HUMAN RIGHTS COUNCIL
      Twelfth session
      Agenda item 7
      HUMAN RIGHTS IN PALESTINE AND OTHER OCCUPIED ARAB TERRITORIES
      Report of the United Nations Fact-Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict

      7. Deliberate attacks against the civilian population
      43. The Mission investigated 11 incidents in which the Israeli armed forces launched directattacks against civilians with lethal outcome (chap. XI). The facts in all bar one of the attacks indicate no justifiable military objective. The first two are attacks on houses in the al-Samouni neighbourhood south of Gaza City, including the shelling of a house in which Palestinian civilians had been forced to assemble by the Israeli armed forces. The following group of seven incidents concern the shooting of civilians while they were trying to leave their homes to walk to a safer place, waving white flags and, in some of the cases, following an injunction from the Israeli forces to do so. The facts gathered by the Mission indicate that all the attacks occurred under circumstances in which the Israeli armed forces were in control of the area and had previously entered into contact with or had atleast observed the persons they subsequently attacked, so that they must have been aware of their civilian status. In the majority of these incidents, the consequences of the Israeli attacks against civilians were aggravated by their subsequent refusal to allow the evacuation of the wounded or to permit access to ambulances.

    11. Re:Violence! by Sun · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, not in the case of the videos in question here.

      They depict "violence" against armed terrorist while actively trying to kill Israelis. They provide names of poor kids killed by the vicious Israelis, while innocently strolling along the streets of Israel, peacefully stabbing bystanders. They glorify the heaven rewards you will get if you do the same.

      The article makes it sound like Israel is trying to silence the Palestinians from presenting their side. This is not the case (at least in this particular instance). We are talking about videos directed at Palestinians, using lies and distortions in order to incite impressionable Palestinians, often teenagers and children (some of the recent stabbing were done by 12 and 13 years olds) to go out and get themselves killed while trying to kill Jews.

      This is not political. This is plain incitement to violence.

      Shachar

    12. Re: Violence! by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > Why don't you list the fucking real atrocities that are going in Syria, or in Africa, or in 100 other places where there is conflict in the world.

      Because they're not lobbying Google to censor Youtube uploads of their atrocities. Also, after the atrocities suffered by the Jewish people, we should expect better from Israel. And also, because don't give Syria privileged access to US funding, military hardware, and intelligence reports.

    13. Re:Violence! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I tell my military friends that I respect that they exist and do what they do. I rarely agree with why they do it and don't respect anyone who believes in patriotism or nationalism. I don't believe being a soldier makes someone a hero. I don't believe modern militaries tend to act in the right most of the time. Being a soldier is a job... nothing more. It's no different than driving a bus or picking up trash. And... if you think I'm disrespecting the soldiers by saying this, that's bullshit. I've lived through bus strikes and garbage collector strikes and I believe we as a community suffered greatly during these times. The guy driving this bus and the guy picking up the trash are critical to our lives and our survival as a culture. Do you have any idea how many lives a year garbage collectors save? To give you a hint, it's far more than a soldier will in decades of service. Do you have any idea how many people die from illness in a society where garbage isn't properly managed?

      Policemen, firemen, garbage collectors, doctors, soldiers are all very very very important jobs. We should appreciate people who do them and choose to dig through the filth of society to make our lives better. That said... a soldier deserves no more special treatment than a doctor or a garbage collector. It's just a job.

    14. Re:Violence! by dotancohen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      OK, I'll give you your citation.

      http://www2.ohchr.org/english/...

      GE.09-15866 UNITED NATIONS A General Assembly Distr. GENERAL A/HRC/12/48 25 September 2009 Original: ENGLISH HUMAN RIGHTS COUNCIL Twelfth session Agenda item 7 HUMAN RIGHTS IN PALESTINE AND OTHER OCCUPIED ARAB TERRITORIES

      This post refers to the well-known Goldstone report:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      It should be noted that the author of the report retracted the claim that it was Israeli government policy to deliberately target civilians. Read the whole wikipedia article or google it for details, TLDR: The report stated that both Hamas and Israel targeted civilians, then the part about Israel targeting civilians was retracted because the author concluded that his sources were bias and inaccurate. Even with that having happened, the anti-Israel crowd still quote the redacted parts of the report because it fits their narrative, and fail to mention the part about Hamas targeting civilians.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    15. Re:Violence! by rtb61 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It really is super double twisty speak to claim showing acts of violence being committed somehow incites violence, kind of fucking late you know, violence is already being committed. Reality is, showing those acts of violence being committed is putting enormous pressure on, to stop committing those acts of violence. So, question, is it an act of violence for a occupying force to drive around telling families they are going to gas them to death or not, https://www.youtube.com/watch?... (rather ironic considering the source). Honestly it looks like many of the acts of violence committed by the Government controlling that region, are being done purposefully to incite violence in return, so that an excuse can be fabricated to carry genocidal policies, without ramifications from the rest of the world.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    16. Re:Violence! by swillden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It was a war. Shit happens.

      No, it wasn't a war. It was a series of heavy-handed, ultra-violent overreactions to minor incidents which themselves were responses to systematic oppression. Military action often does kill civilians, the so-called "collateral damage", but herding groups of unarmed women and children into a building and then deliberately shelling that building to kill them all is not collateral damage; the unarmed civilians were the target.

      If you want to understand what's really going on in Israel, I highly recommend you read "Goliath: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel", by Max Blumenthal. It's a hard book to read, not because Blumenthal isn't a good writer but because the truth is so horrible. And if you doubt that it is the truth, check the included citations.

      --
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    17. Re:Violence! by nbauman · · Score: 2

      It should be noted that the author of the report retracted the claim that it was Israeli government policy to deliberately target civilians. Read the whole wikipedia article or google it for details, TLDR: The report stated that both Hamas and Israel targeted civilians, then the part about Israel targeting civilians was retracted because the author concluded that his sources were bias and inaccurate. Even with that having happened, the anti-Israel crowd still quote the redacted parts of the report because it fits their narrative, and fail to mention the part about Hamas targeting civilians.

      In true hasbara style, you are lying about the Wikipedia article. I'm astounded by these Israelis. They tell a lie, even when it's easy for anyone to look it up and find out that it's a lie:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      On 1 April 2011, Goldstone published a piece in The Washington Post titled 'Reconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israel and war crimes'. Goldstone noted that the subsequent investigations by Israel and recognized in the U.N. committee's report "indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy" while "the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying." The other principal authors of the UN report, Hina Jilani, Christine Chinkin and Desmond Travers, have rejected Goldstone's reassessment arguing that there is "no justification for any demand or expectation for reconsideration of the report as nothing of substance has appeared that would in anyway change the context, findings or conclusions of that report with respect to any of the parties to the Gaza conflict".[15][16] According to journalist Connie Bruck, writing in the The New Yorker magazine, "Goldstone came under such pressure that threats were made to ban him from his grandson's bar mitzvah at a Johannesburg synagogue."[220] ...

      Also Goldstone maintained that, although the one correction should be made, he had "no reason to believe any part of the report needs to be reconsidered at this time" and that he didn't plan to pursue nullifying the report.[229]

      That pressure included Alan Dershowitz telling fanatics that Jewish law allows them to assassinate Goldstone. http://forward.com/news/breaki...

      I met Desmond Travers after Goldstone's letter, and Travers made it clear that Goldstone was speaking for himself, and the report hadn't retracted anything.

  2. All Israel would need to do is reference TOS? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >> individual Palestinians have been uploading videos showing violence by Israeli soldiers, including execution-style killings

    I think all Israel would need to do is reference YouTube's own Terms of Service, which prohibit videos featuring illegal acts, right? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_YouTube) Or maybe it could copyright all videos featuring its soldiers and go the German route (where YouTube would be liable for violating copyright by hosting videos). /snark

    1. Re:All Israel would need to do is reference TOS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Why don't they just use Tor to get Uber drivers to hook up some 3D printers to an Arduino they purchased with Bitcoins to create drones that deliver underpaid H1B female STEM workers.

    2. Re:All Israel would need to do is reference TOS? by viperidaenz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or like, tell their soldiers to stop the execution-style killings?

    3. Re:All Israel would need to do is reference TOS? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or tell terrorists to stop dressing up like Israeli Soldiers and staging 'execution style killings' for the camera.

      It's really hard to authenticate anything on Youtube. And it's rather easy to stage inflammatory 'drama' videos.

  3. Re:Fuck Israel by bloodhawk · · Score: 2

    sadly both sides are acting atrociously. short of turning both Israel and Palestine into a wasteland I am not sure this will ever get better as both sides have demonstrated time and time again they are incapable of living peacefully.

  4. Not true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    There are plenty of videos that show what living conditions in the West Bank look like. The most accurate ones are by Corey Gil Shuster, where he talks to the average Palestinian and asks pointed questions.

    Not just arabs, he also asks Jews obnoxious questions posed by his audience. As someone who's been there and lived on both sides of the green line, I can tell you first hand how good his videos are.

    Palestinians will always be the first to lie to you and tell you they're living in squalor. But their digs are first world. The biggest complaint arabs have is checkpoints. The biggest complaint Jews in Israel have is checkpoints. That much, the average person agrees on.

    Gaza is another story. There you have a more extreme class divide, much higher unemployment rates, a lot more poverty; though, still doing pretty good when compared to the rest of the arab world. That said, it's also fair to point out that Gaza hasn't been managed by Israel in almost ten years. And they didn't have to burn their bridges with Egypt. They chose to do that.

    1. Re:Not true by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This post, and many others in this thread have been modded "-1 Troll" just because they don't show Israel as an evil state bent on the destruction of human kind.

      No, it's because it's self-serving bullshit posted by an anonymous coward, and therefore should be ignored at best, or alternately modded down as propaganda. Especially the line "The biggest complaint arabs have is checkpoints" when in fact Israel is bulldozing crops, removing water systems, etc.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  5. Good for the goose ... by frovingslosh · · Score: 2, Informative

    Will they also be making preparations to censor Israeli videos that insight violence against Palestine? I'm guessing not since Israel considers that completely acceptable.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  6. Re:Fuck Israel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sadly there is actual video evidence against israeli side. This is why they are asking help from google to censor the other side, they no longer can censor the palestinians independently.

  7. Re:Fuck Israel by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    sadly both sides are acting atrociously.

    That does not make them morally equivalent. Israel has far more power, and has far more options. Their violence is state-sanctioned, while most Palestinian violence is perpetrated by individuals. But most importantly, as an American, I object to Israel's violence because it is done, in part, with my tax dollars, in the form of military aid and loan guarantees.

  8. Re:Fuck Israel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    Israel has far more power, and has far more options.

    Yes they do, which is why they've been the most patient of all the Middle Eastern countries. They have to deal with a Palestinian Government which has IN ITS CHARTER the goal of the total destruction of Israel. How exactly do you think Israel can realistically deal with neighbors of that caliber, also knowing the world's spotlight is always on them and almost never on what their enemies are doing?

    Both sides are guilt of atrocities and I take no sides in the conflict. But Israel can't win with some people it seems. People just don't want to believe that their enemies are outright, callous fucks as well.

  9. Sorry guys, Israel doesn't care what you think. by cshark · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think nearly everyone that's commented on this so far has either missed the point, gone off the deep end, or strayed way off topic.

    Israel is not trying to censor speech. They're trying to stop incitement.
    In other words, they're trying to stop predominantly arabic language terrorist recruiting and training material.

    If you have a rudimentary grasp of Arabic, I highly recommend searching for recruiting and training material put out by groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, even Daesh. Though, in truth, if you did, you would probably get flagged by homeland security in whatever country you're in. In that pile there are some real classics like How to Make a Pipe Bomb, Optimal Use of a Suicide Vest, and (my favorite) How to Stab a Jew. These videos are already in violation of Youtube terms of service on at least three counts I can think of.

    Nobody is going to take down your stupid "fuck israel" video, and seriously, nobody even wants to.
    Unless you're a senior member of Hamas, your opinions simply don't matter to anyone who has any kind of sway in the government.

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    1. Re:Sorry guys, Israel doesn't care what you think. by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Israel is not trying to censor speech. They're trying to stop incitement.

      Maybe their soldiers should stop executing people in the streets if they don't want videos of their soldiers executing people in the streets to be on the internet. That would be, like, the fastest way to avoid any more of those videos being posted.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Sorry guys, Israel doesn't care what you think. by cshark · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Israel is not trying to censor speech. They're trying to stop incitement.

      Maybe their soldiers should stop executing people in the streets if they don't want videos of their soldiers executing people in the streets to be on the internet. That would be, like, the fastest way to avoid any more of those videos being posted.

      Soldiers in the streets, Israeli tactics right or wrong. Neither of those are the topic of the OP. Why not TRFA before bothering me with this nonsense?

      Okay, so going to assume you want terrorists to disseminate training, propaganda, and ethnically motivated hate speech material so that they can gleefully murder more civilians.

      How many other terror groups outside of Palestine do you wholeheartedly support in this way? Are you a fan of Daesh/ISIS? Do you think El-Shabab are nice guys? How about Boko Haram? All of them have similar grievances with the West, Jews, and Post Enlightenment society in general. Should they also be allowed to spread recruiting and training material in public forums?

      You sure you've thought this through?

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    3. Re:Sorry guys, Israel doesn't care what you think. by cshark · · Score: 2

      On a more serious note, I don't see Israel as any kind of good guy here. The fact that their opponents are, by comparison, monstrous, doesn't excuse what's going on.

      I will also say that you bring up one big thing that is entirely missing- because Arabic is not a common language outside of the middle east, most Americans have no goddamned idea what's going on. Buddhists and Islamists melt together in one pool of "oppressed peoples" that is generally understood only by reflex. Some random powerless hick in Alabama says something insensitive about black folks and that's national news, some soldier of a terrorist regime promises literal genocide and then slaughters people, that's just whatever and you see it linked to on some blog.

      The arabic stuff is pretty heavy.
      They'll say things more openly when they think Westerners aren't watching.
      I've been following it for years.

      Dude, I'm not going to fault you for that, man. I'm not asking for unconditional support of Israel.

      But I do wonder why the West fixates on Israel the way they do. It's not like there would be world peace tomorrow if they solved this one. There are some serious problems with human rights happening all over Africa, Persia, the Far East. Ten actual genocides with shrinking (rather than growing populations) going on today that people couldn't care less about. Not to mention over a dozen military occupations around the world, some of which are longer running and more severe than the one in Israel. Honor Killings, Gender Apartheid, Slavery. These are real problems that cover almost half the planet, but none of them are issues in Israel. And ironically, many of the perpetrators of those crimes are on the UN human rights council. It's absolutely mind blowing.

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    4. Re:Sorry guys, Israel doesn't care what you think. by dbIII · · Score: 2

      Israel is not trying to censor speech. They're trying to stop incitement.

      By censoring speech.
      It's businesses as usual just like trying to discredit journalists writing about Israel that report anything other than roses and sunshine.

      Look up "war propaganda" kids. It's a tool greatly employed by these extremists of the sort that their grandparents had to flee from.

    5. Re:Sorry guys, Israel doesn't care what you think. by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 2

      And MSNBC's reporters claimed Israelis murdered an unarmed man right before literally showing him chasing people with a knife.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    6. Re:Sorry guys, Israel doesn't care what you think. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Who decides where the line is? What about videos by US militia training people how to use weapons? Would a recruitment video for a dangerous cult like Scientology, that engages in criminal activity and brainwashing, be banned?

      I fully accept that Daesh recruitment videos may lead to there being more terrorism, but I'd prefer to use my own freedom of speech to counter them instead of going down the censorship route. Freedom is very hard won, and not to be given away lightly, especially in exchange for some perceived safety.

      --
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  10. Re:Bad stuff happens in war by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 2

    The fact is this:
    If the Palestinians first stopped firing rockets to made peace, the Jews would put away all their rockets and make peace.
    If, however, the Jews first stopped firing rockets to make peace, the Palestinians would just continue the attacks until Israel is destroyed.

    Both sides are guilty of atrocities, but this being Slashdot... I'd rather the side that has an industry of designing CPUs for Intel beat the side that has a bizarre totalitarian religion that routinely generates suicide bombers.

    --
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    PRINT ""+-0
  11. Re:Fuck Israel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Israel doesn't even recognize that there exist such thing as a palestinian. Rest of your comment is bullshit without any references, there is a difference between Hamas charter and Palestinian Government Charter. It's extremely disturbing that Benjamin Netanyahus political party Likud character is equally vile as the Hamas charter.

    The Hateful Likud Charter Calls for Destruction of Any Palestinian State

    Since virtually every comment on Hamas in American media includes the assertion that the group’s Charter rejects Israel’s right to exist, it’s worth noting the following from the Likud Platform of 1999:

    a. “The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.”
    b. “Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel.
    The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem”
    c. “The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.”
    d. “The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.

    There have been some updates to the platform more recently, reflecting Israel’s withdrawal of settlements from Gaza in 2005. But the Likud Party has *never* in its statements of principles, accepted a Palestinian State. Its electoral partner, Yisrael Beitenu, has likewise categorically rejected the possibility of an independent Palestinian State, insisting that the idea is nothing more than a ploy to facilitate the destruction of Israel.

    Source: http://www.juancole.com/2014/08/charter-destruction-palestinian.html

  12. Re:Yassar Is Rolling In His Grave! by ganjadude · · Score: 4, Insightful

    as long as the students at these colleges in the states today dont get to decide whats offensive we should be good

    --
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  13. Re:Bad stuff happens in war by cshark · · Score: 2

    I usually have faith in the posters on Slashdot, but not on this issue. I think it's going to be easy to see that the American educational system has failed us in profound and meaningful ways.

    I hope I'm wrong, but I think you're more likely to see a lot of pent up ignorant self involved anger on this topic, than any attempts at an honest, serious discussion of any actual issues related to Israel.

    In the threads above, the readers can't even tell the difference between what is meant by incitement, and what is considered speech. They keep tacking on things that really make me wonder if they have any understanding of the subject at all. It's a very simple distinction.

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    This signature has Super Cow Powers

  14. Re:Zionists by cshark · · Score: 2

    I don't know why those mean old Jews won't leave the Pakistanis alone.
    I mean, Pakistan is like 2500 miles away, man. You would think they would want to solve problems closer to home.
    You know, like Alaska.

    --

    This signature has Super Cow Powers

  15. Re:Yassar Is Rolling In His Grave! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    as long as the students at these colleges in the states today dont get to decide whats offensive we should be good

    Watch it buddy, I'm already 72% triggered according to my smart watch app. So glad I connected these 3d printed jazz hands to the IoT, please remotely activate them for me to signify that you're checking your privilege.

  16. You're right on that: Israel doesn't care by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think nearly everyone that's commented on this so far has either missed the point, gone off the deep end, or strayed way off topic.

    Israel is not trying to censor speech. They're trying to stop incitement.

    ... by censorship.

    In other words, they're trying to stop predominantly arabic language terrorist recruiting and training material.

    Trying to stop people from saying something you don't want them to say is known as "censorship". What you're saying here is "I think that in this case censorship is justified."

    I admit to some mixed feelings here. I'd like to see videos recruiting people to terrorism pulled down... but I'm skeptical about giving anybody the authority to decide which videos, because that authority can be misused. As has been pointed out, freedom of speech really isn't freedom of speech until it includes allowing people to say things that you personally don't like.

    I'm afraid I'd err on the side of freedom here. I don't know if I can trust the government-- any government, but least of all the Israeli government--with the power to decide what to censor.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    1. Re:You're right on that: Israel doesn't care by cshark · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Great comment Geoff.
      The thing to remember here is that yes, they are asking for special review powers. And there's good reason to be skeptical there.
      But, they aren't asking Youtube to remove anything that's not already in violation of their community standards (I think they us community standards at yt, not sure).

      And historically, Israel does have a pretty good track record here. The domestic newspapers routinely post anti-government material, op-eds that would make you blush, and they even allow Parliament members who have actually been guilty of treason (MK Zoabi) to serve, and say whatever they like on the floor of the Knesset. Granted, they don't have absolute freedom of speech -- but we don't have that in America anymore either.

      Not saying they can do no wrong. Just that I don't think this would affect anyone who's not recruiting for a terrorist organization like Hamas or Daesh. If you are recruiting for a known terrorist organization, well... I suppose that's your business. You've got bigger problems at that point than what's on Youtube.

      --

      This signature has Super Cow Powers

  17. Re:Fuck Israel by myowntrueself · · Score: 2

    Palestine is recognised as a independent state. Therefore this is a war between states.

    One Israeli of my acquaintance stated that "They are not 'Palestinians', they are Arabs and as such they should be happy to live anywhere in the Arab world. Israel isn't part of the Arab world."

    Aside from Australians I have never met a group more prone to racism than Israelis. But unlike Aussies the Israeli men didn't seem to be entirely misogynistic.

    Interesting how Judaism is pretty much the only religion alive today which is almost entirely racial in nature and focussed on parentage. Who your mother is matters very much in Judaism; I don't believe there is any other religion for which your parents, your genealogy, actually matters at all.

    --
    In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
  18. Re:If someone killed my wife and children... by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If someone killed my wife and children... I would not be above genocide utilizing a bioweapon, and I would be capable of building such a thing, targeted to a specific set of tribes or genomes

    Good luck with that one. The problem here is that the two ethnic groups are almost the same: they're both Semitic people, and are extremely closely related genetically. Any bio-weapon targeting Jewish genetics is also going to affect Arabs, and vice-versa.

    Something like that might work if, for instance, the Nigerians were really pissed at the Chinese. But with most cases where some ethnic group really hates some other ethnic group, the two groups are more similar to each other than to anyone else. It's kinda like all those cases you see where there's a family-run restaurant, but two brothers in the family have a big fight and suddenly there's two restaurants, the original one, and then a new one across the street with the exact same menu and almost same name.

  19. Re:Fuck Israel by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    Yes and no. Anyone can convert, and no one can then consider you any less Jewish than any other Jew, no matter their pedigree.

    Then where are the black and Chinese Hasidic Jews?

    No, anyone can not convert and be considered just as Jewish as any other Jew. Maybe in some liberal US synagogue, but just look at the racist treatment African jews get in Israel.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  20. Re:Fuck Israel by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    Israel has demonstrated that they do not mind living with Arabs.

    http://www.theguardian.com/new...

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  21. Re:Bad stuff happens in war by ultranova · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Both sides are guilty of atrocities, but this being Slashdot... I'd rather the side that has an industry of designing CPUs for Intel beat the side that has a bizarre totalitarian religion that routinely generates suicide bombers.

    One has a totalitarian martyrhood culture, and the other is using them as substitute culprits to avenge the Holocaust on. Why side with either? Unless, of course, your apocalyptic cult sees Israel as a key to its end-of-the-world prophecies, which seems to be the case for alarmingly many people.

    --

    Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  22. Here are a couple of more objective news accounts by nbauman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually, YouTube removed videos which were encouraging Palestinians to kill Israelis (and were actually faked), and were clearly in violation of TOS. The stories don't say anything about removing videos of real Israeli attacks on Palestinians. If you search YouTube for "israeli human rights abuses", you'll still find lots of hits.

    http://www.reuters.com/article...
    Israel says Facebook, YouTube videos encouraging Palestinian attacks

    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-...
    YouTube Removes Inciting Videos Portraying Murder of Jews, at Israel's Request
    Hamas uploaded one video dramatizing stabbing death of two Jews, while cartoon reenacted murder of Eitam and Naama Henkin in West Bank.
    Reuters and Haaretz
    Oct 08, 2015 8:06 PM

    Exaggeration works to the advantage of both sides.

    The Israeli organizations like to say, we talked to Google and were successful in getting Google to remove videos, we're effective, and please contribute money to our ongoing effort.

    The Palestinian organizations like to say, the Israelis are censoring Google, support our organization and fight this.

  23. War propaganda for years by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article makes it sound like Israel is trying to silence the Palestinians from presenting their side. This is not the case (at least in this particular instance)

    Fair enough for this case, giving you the benefit of the doubt, but there are plenty of situations where the corrupt bunch of extremists currently in charge of Israel do so.
    One sided war propaganda from a bunch that very much resemble what the Jewish people had to flee from is the order of the day. If this keeps up Israel is going to be treated like South Africa was some years back.

    1. Re:War propaganda for years by Sun · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Please send me examples to my private mail (I think this is off topic here).

      Just because bad reporting is not limited to Slashdot (the linked English article is below bad) does not mean the subject here isn't worth discussing. I think the discussion totally misses the real subject matter. There are a host of important things to consider here, and I doubt any will be discussed in the comments, mostly because the subject matter says "Israel".

      Does it make sense to try and block incitement to violence? Are there freedom of speech implications here? Would such a block, even assuming it would hold and be effective for Youtube and Facebook, even help?

      What are Youtube and Facebook's moral and legal obligations here? Does the fact that both have development centers in Israel change anything?

      Shachar

    2. Re:War propaganda for years by dbIII · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please send me examples to my private mail

      I'll send you a dollar and you can buy a fucking newspaper.
      What is it with people pretending to be ignorant to push a point? It's very offensive.

    3. Re:War propaganda for years by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Does it make sense to try and block incitement to violence?

      That excuse can be used to block any sort of negative reporting and you know it.

  24. Re:Fuck Israel by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

    Aside from Australians I have never met a group more prone to racism than Israelis. But unlike Aussies the Israeli men didn't seem to be entirely misogynistic.

    Bigot: someone who claims that nationality determines personality.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  25. Re:Fuck Israel by bloodhawk · · Score: 2

    Aside from Australians I have never met a group more prone to racism than Israelis. But unlike Aussies the Israeli men didn't seem to be entirely misogynistic.

    I think you need to travel more. try visiting places like the US or south Africa or India.

  26. Re:TFA is a filthy liberal propaganda ! by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, you believe the issue here is about choosing a side? To a certain extent that might be true. But let's be fair, until the UN renounces Israel's sovereignty, takes over, disarms the entire region and enforces peace.. preferably peacefully while treating all the people fairly and with respect, there will be no right side. I don't give a shit if you favor Israelis or Palestinians. They're both a disgrace and behave like something out of a grapes of wrath type experiment.

    The issue here is whether or not a nation like Israel should be allowed to censor "their enemy" on YouTube and other sites. I have no love for anyone who preaches hate like the Palestinians and Israelis do. I have no respect for anyone who would look their brother in the eye and see an animal when what they really see is a mirror. But, for a moment, imagine Israel being able to claim the videos you site as instigating violence... they do... only a fool would disagree with you on this. There are many videos like this and if I believed I had the right to have them taken down, I would.

    But, what about the video of a crying child who lost his mother or father or sister to bombings and raids led by the Israelis... when that child cries out in fear and terror and agony that the Israelis did this to him. That he hates the people who took someone he loves from him. Would you also agree that this video would insight violence? Would you not agree that only a heartless man would not want to cry for this child? Would you not agree that a fighter would see this as his duty to avenge? Would you agree that this video should be taken down too? I personally wouldn't. A video like this should be seen.

    At which point between these extremes do we decide which video is appropriate and which insights violence and which insights violence and should be seen... and which ones shouldn't.

    This IS NOT an issue of black and white. While I sympathize with the Israeli leadership that these videos are easily a weapon being used against them... I also sympathize with the Palestinians who lack better channels to communicate and sadly lack better things to communicate about. What's worse is, I feel deeply for the Israelis and the Palestinians who actually believe they are doing the right thing because some fool in "their leadership" has convinced them that this is how they should think and behave.

    Israel is a completely failed experiment and a place which could be a world wide symbol of peace representing some of the biggest religions is a cesspool of steaming shit instead. Quit picking a side like Israel or Palestine. Instead fight to have them both dissolved and if the US and UN are going to pay for "peace keeping" in the region, then treat it like post-was Germany and just take the damn thing over and treat it as a haven instead and bring peace there.

  27. Re: Bah Israel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Was a sore spot hit? No problem, here are some sources to confirm what you refuse to see.

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Military_Censor

    Source: Military Censorship Is Serving Likud
                              read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.638369

    Source: IDF Censor Calls for Probe of 'Leaks' to Haaretz on Israel's Economic Ties With Iran
                              read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.652591

    Source: Israel's Military Censor to Monitor Facebook, Twitter, Blogs
                              read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-s-military-censor-to-monitor-facebook-twitter-blogs-1.427769

    Source: Just Say No to the Censorship of Culture in Israel
                                read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.657245

    Source: Israel's Censorship Frenzy Is Hurting Its Democratic Image
                              read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.659545

    Reason below as to why Israel is "negotiating" with Google and Youtube

    Source: Outgoing IDF Chief Censor: Israel's Preventive Censorship Is Becoming Irrelevant
                              read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.668277

  28. Re:Fuck Israel by Feral+Nerd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    you realize that it's not a concentration camp right? seems like you drank up that cooled real good.

    So If you lock up close to 1.9 million people in a limited strip of territory and don't allow them to enter and exit freely, tightly control the influx of supplies and seek to censor and suppress information about what you are doing in there? what is that? The Zionist idea of a holiday park?

  29. Tell them to buzz off. by samantha · · Score: 2

    Israel doesn't get a say in what a US company does. Neither does any other country.

  30. Re:TFA is a filthy liberal propaganda ! by Alain+Williams · · Score: 4, Insightful

    DICE should be ashamed to publicize such trashy liberal propaganda !!

    The Palestinian government is run by Hamas & Fatah - DICE has nothing to do with it.

    The propaganda problem is with Israel: trying to keep the rest of the world ignorant about their oppression of Palestinians.

  31. Re:Israel is defending itself by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 2

    Islam wants to convert us, lying and cheating and violence against non Muslims is justified for that cause.

    Judaism want to rule us, lying and cheating and violence against goy is generally far more permissible than against fellow Jews (especially the lying and cheating part).

    Reciprocity is not high on the agenda for either.

  32. Re:If someone killed my wife and children... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Much bullshit here.

    There is so much semite in modern jews, even in those long of european descent, it's easily identified with cheap DNA sequencing, as any customer of FTDNA, Ancestry or 23andme can see and test for themselves. As for the Cohen and Levi bloodlines they are alive and well and easily verified by Y-DNA identification of haplogroups such as J-P58* or J-M410* (source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm... ). Same goes for a lot of mitochondrial DNA haplogroups of course. And the results are applicable directly to Palestinians as well, since Palestinian Arabs and Jews are genetically indistinguishable and form a single population.

    But then I suspect you already know you're full of shit and are just trolling.

  33. Truth Hurts by JimSadler · · Score: 2

    If the films are real then whether inflammatory or not they should be open for the world to see. Perhaps Israel should reign in their soldiers who do wrong and show the world the effects of segregating Palestinians

  34. Re:TFA is a filthy liberal propaganda ! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

    I have no respect for anyone who would look their brother in the eye and see an animal when what they really see is a mirror.

    This stopped me in my tracks. The highlight of a profound post with many highlights to choose from. Bravo!

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  35. Go look somewhere else [Re: Violence!] by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why don't you list the fucking real atrocities that are going in Syria, or in Africa, or in 100 other places where there is conflict in the world.

    When the first response to an accusation is "why aren't you looking at some different crime some different place," I read this as an acknowledgement that the accusation is accurate.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com