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Israel Meets With Google and YouTube To Discuss Censoring Videos (middleeastmonitor.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Various sources report Israel's Deputy Minister for Foreign Affairs Tzipi Hotovely meeting with representatives of Google and YouTube to discuss censoring Palestinian videos believed to incite violence.
Original aricle (in Hebrew) from Maariv
The open question is how Google and Youtube will define "inciting violence."
Currently, all foreign journalists in the Palestinian territories are required to register with the Israeli military, and all footage must be approved through the Israeli Military Censor's office before being released. However, according to the article in alternet individual Palestinians have been uploading videos showing violence by Israeli soldiers, including execution-style killings, and highlighting the living conditions in the territories, which Israeli authorities consider inflammatory.
>> individual Palestinians have been uploading videos showing violence by Israeli soldiers, including execution-style killings
I think all Israel would need to do is reference YouTube's own Terms of Service, which prohibit videos featuring illegal acts, right? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_YouTube) Or maybe it could copyright all videos featuring its soldiers and go the German route (where YouTube would be liable for violating copyright by hosting videos). /snark
There are plenty of videos that show what living conditions in the West Bank look like. The most accurate ones are by Corey Gil Shuster, where he talks to the average Palestinian and asks pointed questions.
Not just arabs, he also asks Jews obnoxious questions posed by his audience. As someone who's been there and lived on both sides of the green line, I can tell you first hand how good his videos are.
Palestinians will always be the first to lie to you and tell you they're living in squalor. But their digs are first world. The biggest complaint arabs have is checkpoints. The biggest complaint Jews in Israel have is checkpoints. That much, the average person agrees on.
Gaza is another story. There you have a more extreme class divide, much higher unemployment rates, a lot more poverty; though, still doing pretty good when compared to the rest of the arab world. That said, it's also fair to point out that Gaza hasn't been managed by Israel in almost ten years. And they didn't have to burn their bridges with Egypt. They chose to do that.
Sadly there is actual video evidence against israeli side. This is why they are asking help from google to censor the other side, they no longer can censor the palestinians independently.
sadly both sides are acting atrociously.
That does not make them morally equivalent. Israel has far more power, and has far more options. Their violence is state-sanctioned, while most Palestinian violence is perpetrated by individuals. But most importantly, as an American, I object to Israel's violence because it is done, in part, with my tax dollars, in the form of military aid and loan guarantees.
It's not simply violence, it's illegal violence such as crimes against humanity which is punishable by universal law. The violence is targeting civilians that are occupied by Israel on palestinian land.
Yeah, more violence sure will solve the problem.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
as long as the students at these colleges in the states today dont get to decide whats offensive we should be good
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Israel is not trying to censor speech. They're trying to stop incitement.
Maybe their soldiers should stop executing people in the streets if they don't want videos of their soldiers executing people in the streets to be on the internet. That would be, like, the fastest way to avoid any more of those videos being posted.
Soldiers in the streets, Israeli tactics right or wrong. Neither of those are the topic of the OP. Why not TRFA before bothering me with this nonsense?
Okay, so going to assume you want terrorists to disseminate training, propaganda, and ethnically motivated hate speech material so that they can gleefully murder more civilians.
How many other terror groups outside of Palestine do you wholeheartedly support in this way? Are you a fan of Daesh/ISIS? Do you think El-Shabab are nice guys? How about Boko Haram? All of them have similar grievances with the West, Jews, and Post Enlightenment society in general. Should they also be allowed to spread recruiting and training material in public forums?
You sure you've thought this through?
This signature has Super Cow Powers
Great comment Geoff.
The thing to remember here is that yes, they are asking for special review powers. And there's good reason to be skeptical there.
But, they aren't asking Youtube to remove anything that's not already in violation of their community standards (I think they us community standards at yt, not sure).
And historically, Israel does have a pretty good track record here. The domestic newspapers routinely post anti-government material, op-eds that would make you blush, and they even allow Parliament members who have actually been guilty of treason (MK Zoabi) to serve, and say whatever they like on the floor of the Knesset. Granted, they don't have absolute freedom of speech -- but we don't have that in America anymore either.
Not saying they can do no wrong. Just that I don't think this would affect anyone who's not recruiting for a terrorist organization like Hamas or Daesh. If you are recruiting for a known terrorist organization, well... I suppose that's your business. You've got bigger problems at that point than what's on Youtube.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
If someone killed my wife and children... I would not be above genocide utilizing a bioweapon, and I would be capable of building such a thing, targeted to a specific set of tribes or genomes
Good luck with that one. The problem here is that the two ethnic groups are almost the same: they're both Semitic people, and are extremely closely related genetically. Any bio-weapon targeting Jewish genetics is also going to affect Arabs, and vice-versa.
Something like that might work if, for instance, the Nigerians were really pissed at the Chinese. But with most cases where some ethnic group really hates some other ethnic group, the two groups are more similar to each other than to anyone else. It's kinda like all those cases you see where there's a family-run restaurant, but two brothers in the family have a big fight and suddenly there's two restaurants, the original one, and then a new one across the street with the exact same menu and almost same name.
I'll play devil's advocate:
Firstly, the mandatory [citation needed].
OK, I'll give you your citation.
This has been documented by the New York Times, Washington Post, BBC, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and others, who actually interviewed the eyewitnesses. The Israeli government never interviewed the eyewitnesses, and never conducted an investigation that they talked about.
You can search for "white flag" and get repeated incidents in which Israel
If they wanted to crush every living soul in Palestine, let's be serious: no-one would stop them.
Wow, what kind of pro-Israel echo chamber do you live in?
I don't know exactly what would happen if Israel embarked on an intense and systematic campaign of genocide (e.g. designed to kill every non-Jew in the West Bank and Gaza in less than a year). But I can guarantee that there would be major international efforts to stop Israel from doing it. At the very least, Israel would face major trade sanctions - along the lines of apartheid South Africa. But there's a good chance that at least a few countries would hit Israel with bombs and missiles. Some might even send in ground troops. The whole situation could easily escalate into a world-wide nuclear war.
Getting back to the whole incitement/propaganda/censorship topic, I have the sense people in the pro-Israel camp are unaware of how much mainstream opinion is shifting against Israel. They seem to imagine that a century from now Israel will still be happily discriminating against people who are not Jewish - e.g. Jewish (only) "right" of "return". But, at the same time, any hints of discrimination against Jewish people will be absolutely crushed - e.g. public careers destroyed by accusations of "antisemitism".
As a matter of basic fairness, though, that doesn't seem sustainable. Eventually everyone's going to have to play by the same rules when it comes to discrimination.
Here's your cite. I gave this in more detail above.
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/...
GE.09-15866
UNITED NATIONS
A General Assembly Distr.
GENERAL
A/HRC/12/48
25 September 2009
Original: ENGLISH
HUMAN RIGHTS COUNCIL
Twelfth session
Agenda item 7
HUMAN RIGHTS IN PALESTINE AND OTHER OCCUPIED ARAB TERRITORIES
Report of the United Nations Fact-Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict
7. Deliberate attacks against the civilian population
43. The Mission investigated 11 incidents in which the Israeli armed forces launched directattacks against civilians with lethal outcome (chap. XI). The facts in all bar one of the attacks indicate no justifiable military objective. The first two are attacks on houses in the al-Samouni neighbourhood south of Gaza City, including the shelling of a house in which Palestinian civilians had been forced to assemble by the Israeli armed forces. The following group of seven incidents concern the shooting of civilians while they were trying to leave their homes to walk to a safer place, waving white flags and, in some of the cases, following an injunction from the Israeli forces to do so. The facts gathered by the Mission indicate that all the attacks occurred under circumstances in which the Israeli armed forces were in control of the area and had previously entered into contact with or had atleast observed the persons they subsequently attacked, so that they must have been aware of their civilian status. In the majority of these incidents, the consequences of the Israeli attacks against civilians were aggravated by their subsequent refusal to allow the evacuation of the wounded or to permit access to ambulances.
Actually, not in the case of the videos in question here.
They depict "violence" against armed terrorist while actively trying to kill Israelis. They provide names of poor kids killed by the vicious Israelis, while innocently strolling along the streets of Israel, peacefully stabbing bystanders. They glorify the heaven rewards you will get if you do the same.
The article makes it sound like Israel is trying to silence the Palestinians from presenting their side. This is not the case (at least in this particular instance). We are talking about videos directed at Palestinians, using lies and distortions in order to incite impressionable Palestinians, often teenagers and children (some of the recent stabbing were done by 12 and 13 years olds) to go out and get themselves killed while trying to kill Jews.
This is not political. This is plain incitement to violence.
Shachar
Actually, YouTube removed videos which were encouraging Palestinians to kill Israelis (and were actually faked), and were clearly in violation of TOS. The stories don't say anything about removing videos of real Israeli attacks on Palestinians. If you search YouTube for "israeli human rights abuses", you'll still find lots of hits.
http://www.reuters.com/article...
Israel says Facebook, YouTube videos encouraging Palestinian attacks
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-...
YouTube Removes Inciting Videos Portraying Murder of Jews, at Israel's Request
Hamas uploaded one video dramatizing stabbing death of two Jews, while cartoon reenacted murder of Eitam and Naama Henkin in West Bank.
Reuters and Haaretz
Oct 08, 2015 8:06 PM
Exaggeration works to the advantage of both sides.
The Israeli organizations like to say, we talked to Google and were successful in getting Google to remove videos, we're effective, and please contribute money to our ongoing effort.
The Palestinian organizations like to say, the Israelis are censoring Google, support our organization and fight this.
Fair enough for this case, giving you the benefit of the doubt, but there are plenty of situations where the corrupt bunch of extremists currently in charge of Israel do so.
One sided war propaganda from a bunch that very much resemble what the Jewish people had to flee from is the order of the day. If this keeps up Israel is going to be treated like South Africa was some years back.
So, you believe the issue here is about choosing a side? To a certain extent that might be true. But let's be fair, until the UN renounces Israel's sovereignty, takes over, disarms the entire region and enforces peace.. preferably peacefully while treating all the people fairly and with respect, there will be no right side. I don't give a shit if you favor Israelis or Palestinians. They're both a disgrace and behave like something out of a grapes of wrath type experiment.
The issue here is whether or not a nation like Israel should be allowed to censor "their enemy" on YouTube and other sites. I have no love for anyone who preaches hate like the Palestinians and Israelis do. I have no respect for anyone who would look their brother in the eye and see an animal when what they really see is a mirror. But, for a moment, imagine Israel being able to claim the videos you site as instigating violence... they do... only a fool would disagree with you on this. There are many videos like this and if I believed I had the right to have them taken down, I would.
But, what about the video of a crying child who lost his mother or father or sister to bombings and raids led by the Israelis... when that child cries out in fear and terror and agony that the Israelis did this to him. That he hates the people who took someone he loves from him. Would you also agree that this video would insight violence? Would you not agree that only a heartless man would not want to cry for this child? Would you not agree that a fighter would see this as his duty to avenge? Would you agree that this video should be taken down too? I personally wouldn't. A video like this should be seen.
At which point between these extremes do we decide which video is appropriate and which insights violence and which insights violence and should be seen... and which ones shouldn't.
This IS NOT an issue of black and white. While I sympathize with the Israeli leadership that these videos are easily a weapon being used against them... I also sympathize with the Palestinians who lack better channels to communicate and sadly lack better things to communicate about. What's worse is, I feel deeply for the Israelis and the Palestinians who actually believe they are doing the right thing because some fool in "their leadership" has convinced them that this is how they should think and behave.
Israel is a completely failed experiment and a place which could be a world wide symbol of peace representing some of the biggest religions is a cesspool of steaming shit instead. Quit picking a side like Israel or Palestine. Instead fight to have them both dissolved and if the US and UN are going to pay for "peace keeping" in the region, then treat it like post-was Germany and just take the damn thing over and treat it as a haven instead and bring peace there.
> Why don't you list the fucking real atrocities that are going in Syria, or in Africa, or in 100 other places where there is conflict in the world.
Because they're not lobbying Google to censor Youtube uploads of their atrocities. Also, after the atrocities suffered by the Jewish people, we should expect better from Israel. And also, because don't give Syria privileged access to US funding, military hardware, and intelligence reports.
I tell my military friends that I respect that they exist and do what they do. I rarely agree with why they do it and don't respect anyone who believes in patriotism or nationalism. I don't believe being a soldier makes someone a hero. I don't believe modern militaries tend to act in the right most of the time. Being a soldier is a job... nothing more. It's no different than driving a bus or picking up trash. And... if you think I'm disrespecting the soldiers by saying this, that's bullshit. I've lived through bus strikes and garbage collector strikes and I believe we as a community suffered greatly during these times. The guy driving this bus and the guy picking up the trash are critical to our lives and our survival as a culture. Do you have any idea how many lives a year garbage collectors save? To give you a hint, it's far more than a soldier will in decades of service. Do you have any idea how many people die from illness in a society where garbage isn't properly managed?
Policemen, firemen, garbage collectors, doctors, soldiers are all very very very important jobs. We should appreciate people who do them and choose to dig through the filth of society to make our lives better. That said... a soldier deserves no more special treatment than a doctor or a garbage collector. It's just a job.
OK, I'll give you your citation.
This post refers to the well-known Goldstone report:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
It should be noted that the author of the report retracted the claim that it was Israeli government policy to deliberately target civilians. Read the whole wikipedia article or google it for details, TLDR: The report stated that both Hamas and Israel targeted civilians, then the part about Israel targeting civilians was retracted because the author concluded that his sources were bias and inaccurate. Even with that having happened, the anti-Israel crowd still quote the redacted parts of the report because it fits their narrative, and fail to mention the part about Hamas targeting civilians.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
It really is super double twisty speak to claim showing acts of violence being committed somehow incites violence, kind of fucking late you know, violence is already being committed. Reality is, showing those acts of violence being committed is putting enormous pressure on, to stop committing those acts of violence. So, question, is it an act of violence for a occupying force to drive around telling families they are going to gas them to death or not, https://www.youtube.com/watch?... (rather ironic considering the source). Honestly it looks like many of the acts of violence committed by the Government controlling that region, are being done purposefully to incite violence in return, so that an excuse can be fabricated to carry genocidal policies, without ramifications from the rest of the world.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
DICE should be ashamed to publicize such trashy liberal propaganda !!
The Palestinian government is run by Hamas & Fatah - DICE has nothing to do with it.
The propaganda problem is with Israel: trying to keep the rest of the world ignorant about their oppression of Palestinians.
Why don't you list the fucking real atrocities that are going in Syria, or in Africa, or in 100 other places where there is conflict in the world.
When the first response to an accusation is "why aren't you looking at some different crime some different place," I read this as an acknowledgement that the accusation is accurate.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com