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Microsoft Will Resume Pushing Windows 10 To Machines With Win7, 8.1 (computerworld.com)
LichtSpektren writes: After previously apologizing on October 16th for forcing Windows 10 on some users of Windows 7 and 8.1 via the Windows Update mechanism, Microsoft disabled the default update option for Windows 10, so that users eligible for the new OS would have to opt in manually. Gregg Keizer at ComputerWorld reports today that Microsoft will soon switch the default option back to "on" again, possibly as early as tomorrow's "Patch Tuesday" update. Users who do not want Windows 10 are strongly advised to turn off automatic updating to avoid accidentally installing the OS.
agreed. The problem here is that 99 percent of windows users don't know how to read a message on a screen without clicking YES and DOWNLOAD NOW and YOUR PC HAS A VIRUS GIVE ME $400
But Windows 10 contains SO MUCH LEGACY.
It's just bigger and slower than Windows 7. :(
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
They are hocking their latest fair onto machines that are better off with the older operating system. Windows 10 doesn't offer any more functionality than windows 7 or 8.1. I don't need some crappy talking clippy to search for things for me. I don't need it, period.
... when you click-through the sixteen page license agreement presented to you in 3 pt font in dark grey text on light grey background, some three years ago when you installed Win7. Right there on page fourteen, paragraph 4, sub paragraph 2, it said you agreed that the licensee (that's you) permits unscheduled, unannounced, update to the computer by the vendor, at vendor's sole discretion, with no recourse.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
No the problem here is that this OS vendor thinks it's OK to force users to download gigabytes against their will.
... how much of that is enforceable and will hold up in court?
The more appropriate question would be: how much money is available to pay for the required legal professionals' services to uphold it (or successfully contest it). Which is normally more than the average middle-class citizen can muster, especially compared to Microsoft's available funds.
The unfortunate reality is that the EULA by default stands until questioned, a court will not do that by its own volition and for free. Someone has to pay for that.
Ads in the Start menu, Telemetry, possible hardware incompatibilities?
Because if you were the customer, MS would be charging you for the privilege of purchasing their product.
You are the product, and MS is trying to downgrade functional Win 7 machines (general-purpose computers that run software at the user's discretion and transmit telemetry only when the user misconfigures them) into telemetry-gathering nodes on something that is becoming increasingly-indistinguishable from what we used to call a botnet.
Microsoft now has Windows 7 users shutting off auto updates to stop this. They are getting the unintended consequences that any rational person should have seen coming a mile away. This is not going to go well for MS, and it would not surprise me if it ended up in court. They are basically turning the most used OS on the planet into an advertising platform with an app store built in. They were making a ton of money on the paid-for versions like 7, so I don't know why they let the bean counters talk them into switching revenue streams. If bundling IE got them in trouble with courts, there has to be a class action lawsuit in here somewhere, regardless of what is in the EULA.
A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
By the time a case makes it to court, the damage is done. Your computer is "upgraded", Windows telemetry knows everything that is on your machine, and all your secrets are public. Not to mention, that half of your software no longer works, because of compatibility issues.
It gets harder and harder for me to understand why so many people stay on Microsoft operating systems.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
"Shedding legacy" if fine. If that were all there were to it, MS could offer Win7 users an OPTIONAL update, which turns off various legacy functions that have exploits associated with them.
That is not the case here. MS is pushing their telemetry. In effect, they want your machine to become a part of their cloud. That is unacceptable.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Grishnakh asked: "If the user happily bends over and asks to be screwed, over and over, why shouldn't a business do so?"
Because it is wrong?
Because it is unethical?
Because it is a poor business decision?
etc.
etc.
Would any of those be good reason not to screw the customer?
Oh and, I hope you don't having anything Microsoft deems as "unacceptable" such as "pirated" software. ;-)
Not to worry MS will just Uninstall your apps. I mean you did read the eula right?
http://saveie6.com/
I actually have an idea about this. This is purely opinion, but I think it's all about Microsoft's App store.
Apple is making buckets of money from their App store. Microsoft sees this, concludes it is unacceptable, and wants to get that money for itself, or at least as much of it as possible.
Now, Windows 8 and 8.1 had the App store, but 8 - while perhaps not a marketing disaster like Vista - still doesn't sit well with people. Windows 7 is well-liked, but there's no App store. Therefore: Upgrade everyone to Windows 10 for free, and wait for money to start rolling in via app purchases, in-menu advertisements, and other benefits. Maybe they can even sell telemetry data to marketing firms, depending on how much they wash it and how close they want to toe a legal line about turning over such information to third parties.
I've yet to hear any better explanation.
That is still unacceptable behavior. My workplace is in an area where Verizon has refused to upgrade the phone lines and Time Warner doesn't cover large chunks of each block. So most businesses are on crappy 1.0-1.5 Mbps DSL connections, with the fastest possible being just 3 Mbps. Combine that with each business having 3-10 computers and this automatic multi-gigabyte download behavior is completely unacceptable. Especially for the couple businesses who've resorted to cellular LTE Internet with extremely low data caps to try to get decent speed.
Right, somebody broke into our locked office building just to maliciously update our OSes? It happened on her computer because her updates were set to "Install updated automatically (recommended)". Perhaps your settings are different. But lots of users have reported Windows 10 installing without any user interaction whatsoever.
Changing the EULA after the fact for something material like this should make the EULA null and void in its entirety.
But much like Sony, this is enough reason for me to never use MS products again, were I still using any.
Captcha: takers
speaks for itself
I only use my paid copy of Windows 7 on weekends for gaming. Regardless of what you think I deserve I feel entitled to voice my discontent when the vendor is acting as if he owns my machine. If you want to promote people moving off Windows entirely It might eventually happen, but I don't think that you are helping.
And the most successful Trojan horse award goes out to Micro$oft Windows.
Because it is wrong?
According to you. If you don't like it, don't buy from that business. If you do buy from that business, you're just an enabler.
Because it is unethical?
According to you. And so what? Why does this matter?
Because it is a poor business decision?
Wrong. It's a good business decision. Do you see Microsoft's profits disappearing? I don't. People keep buying from them. So their strategy seems to be working, therefore it's a good thing for them to do.
If your auto dealer installed a camera in your car to snoop on you, an when you complain they say "we updated the EULA", are you going to just accept it?
It is not acceptable to do that in other industries. Why give Microsoft a pass?
1: this infection defaults to enabled in the optional update list, it's trying to get installed 'by accident'. Trying very hard.
2: it's burning 3Gb of my deliberately small C: partition and every time I deleted the installer it just downloaded it again.
That's not looking like any sort of choice to me unless I revert the entire OS to an unsafe state without security updates. Given I don't have a clean ISO for Win8 with Bing that's going to be a challenge.
They truly are scum.
"Your" experience is second hand, and appears to be someone playing a practical joke upon a co-worker. The "reports of several people" seems dubious too.
I have my own direct experience of how the install works, I've done it twice. Given actual, first hand, experience of three machines - two installed, one not - given the fact millions of people would be protesting if there had ever been a period whereby Windows 10 "installed itself" without bringing up a single cancellable dialog, and given the severe legal situation Microsoft would be in if it ever tried to pull this stunt, I would seriously advice you to locate the practical joker in your office.
Oh, like the severe legal situation Microsoft would be in if they downloaded 12 GB (or however much it is) without asking the user? Or sending their personal information to 100+ domains without the ability to turn it off? Yeah, they admitted they were doing this and that too.
But keep telling yourself that there is a ghost that is floating to peoples' computers and maliciously installing operating systems on them. Microsoft already apologized two months ago for doing what you're denying is occurring.
One very important thing for me is a Ceton CableCard Tuner I have to record shows with Media Center.. Media Center was originally in Windows 10 Preview then they intentionally removed it.. and then they disabled Netflix from working in older versions of MediaCenter... Microsoft is working with comcast to restrict home users ability to record TV Content over Cable and Antenna.. Comcast and Cox have already started converting their Set Top Boxes to IP based streaming boxes which will not allow you to locally record tv content... The FCC and many cases along the way say we have the right to record TV Content for our own use and Archive but now with Microsoft doing away with DVD support and Media Center.. we no longer have that ability.. Its going to be like trying to capture a Hulu.com TV show.. it will be close to impossible if not impossible within 5 years.. this is blatant collusion and criminal activity to require people who pay for content either on Cable or Antenna by watching commercials to stream any rerun or later viewing of a show from a service like netflix hulu or comcasts own streaming service instead of letting the User record content as has been legal since the VCR.. Today it is now illegal to transfer content from DVDs to your computer in England and other European countries.. they want us to pay them for every viewing of every show even if its a 10 year old rerun of friends.. and if you haven't noticed there are no new good shows being produced... Comcast is not only a distributor of content.. they own TV Networks and Movie Studios and Microsoft has had a relationship with them since Gates invested a billion dollars in them back in the 1990's .... Its corrupt... most likely criminal.. and definitely evil
But I'm glad Microsoft is shedding legacy so aggressively.
I'm glad they are shedding their integrity so aggressively.
There's no way the OS will install itself automatically. It'll merely be downloaded to your machine (or machines).
Its great Microsoft pays our Internet bills and purchases hard disks for everyone.
Seriously, it is kind of a cool anecdote, because it shows how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You basically didn't stop to think: Hey, is this fair? Is this a fair comparison?. Of course, it isn't. Not at all. Allow me to elaborate.
A professional installed and configured a customized version of Windows on your system (Maybe you didn't know that an engineering team configured a custom version of Windows with all the right drivers, etc?.) Then an amateur tried to installed and configure Linux, and not surprisingly was unsuccessful (thus the WiFi and video "problems", and inability to run your Windows applications with WINE/Codeweaver Crossover.) It boggles the mind that you think that could pass as a fair comparison. True, there are some Windows applications that won't work with Crossover, but it is highly unlikely you use those, or you never would have made the switch (e.g. You' would already know Photoshop and AutoCAD aren't available for Linux.)
My assumption is that you are a troll (who else would claim that 99% of your software won't work if you use Linux?), but maybe I'm wrong, and even if I'm not at least other people can learn a little something (like the existence of Crossover) as a consequence of your post now, whereas there was absolutely nothing to learn from yours directly, and a significant danger someone would get a tingle in their confirmation bias gland.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Yes, because Judge's don't really make that much, so $350 to $1000 dollars worth of commodity hardware is more than enough to sway them in the direction of risking their reputation, career, and jail time.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
If your auto dealer installed a camera in your car to snoop on you, an when you complain they say "we updated the EULA", are you going to just accept it?
It is not acceptable to do that in other industries. Why give Microsoft a pass?
GM customers seemed happy to keep doing business with GM after they did just that (well, audio, not video) for OnStar - there were several incidents, from police snooping to bored operators.
I'm OK with laws to enforce privacy, but it's a democracy and if most people don't care, well, we get the government we deserve. In the meantime, consumers also have a duty to stop doing business with assholes. Legal or not, when a company makes an asshole move like this, and you decide to keep doing business with them, well, decisions have consequences.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I watched it try so hard and desperate to download something, but couldn't for it could not create a folder called $windows.~BT
There was a file by that name...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I don't see MS doing this for the sake of users, I see them doing it because they think this will provide greater revenue streams. There is not other explanation for them pushing a change to 10 so aggressively. They need as many eyes on the app store as possible, or it isn't going to pan out.
Your instincts from a year ago were more on target.
A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
It's the old "how to disable cookies in Firefox (was it, I think?)" trick again.
MS tries to create a folder called C:\$windows.~BT to download its installer files into. Create a file by that name and, well, no way to create a folder by that name or dump the files somewhere. Installer croaks, aborts download, bullet dodged.
Of course MS will eventually catch on and close that loophole, but it should be good to let us survive another patch day.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Many users reported that they had no way to interrupt the installation, only to reschedule it or hard reboot.
I always thought hacking a computer to install malware that the user does not want was a crime?
Because it is wrong?
According to you. If you don't like it, don't buy from that business. If you do buy from that business, you're just an enabler.
Because it is unethical?
According to you. And so what? Why does this matter?
Because it is a poor business decision?
Wrong. It's a good business decision. Do you see Microsoft's profits disappearing? I don't. People keep buying from them. So their strategy seems to be working, therefore it's a good thing for them to do.
According to everyone. It's wrong and unethical if you override someone else's will to do yours on something you don't own. The customer bought the computer and the OS. Overriding their will with their computer isn't an opinion, it's just flat-out wrong.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
First rule in IT: Never put 100% stock in what users tell you. Always test for yourself.
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
Sorry but that is BULLSHIT as I've had to clean several Windows 10 update infections off of users PCs and guess what? There was NO cancel, you could upgrade now, or upgrade later, but if you got it completely downloaded you got NO choice when it come to just saying "do not want".
I only see that type of behavior on one other type of software...malware. I will now be disabling auto-updates and advising my customers to do the same and will instead be providing links to either WSUS Offline or Autopatcher. Its fucking disgusting that they would shove their shit into a system the OS requires to stay updated and I hope they are sued.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Microsoft tried to "harmonize" their smartphones with their desktops to have a consistent user interface. If Apple and Android smartphones have an "app store" where pre-tested applications are on sale, then so must Microsoft. Then Microsoft introduced that "live tiles" interface for their smartphones to match the App pages on smartphones. Therefore, the desktop must have one too. It can't be a separate application because users may not use it. So it must be bolted onto the desktop somewhere. The only practical place is in the start pullup menu.
Since smartphones auto-update applications, then so must the desktop. One problem with desktop systems are the large botnets, malware, viruses with growth assisted by users who don't update regularly. So Microsoft decides the only solution is to forced every system to get "updates" at night. For hipsters, it's cool to suddenly discover "new features" on their phones in the morning. For anyone else who had project work running it is infuriating to suddenly find their work gone and the machine stuck in a update.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Microsoft now has Windows 7 users shutting off auto updates to stop this.
I've had to shut off auto-updates for a very long time. My graduate students are VERY unhappy when they start a week-long model run and a few days later the computer has rebooted to install a needless update.
Windows 10, as I understand it, makes this problem worse.
I don't know what is in the mind of the Microsoft people. They finally get an OS that is stable enough it can run for a week without needing to be rebooted (or rebooting on its own) and they decide you have to reboot anyway.
You should learn how to make a local policy which you can push to all machines. No business or school should be blindly using the automatic update schedule from Microsoft. Create your own so you don't have unnecessary loss of productivity and downtime. You can't blame Microsoft for this. They only want computers more secure.
I don't give a shit about what you or even some sell-out judge says. This is WRONG (morally and factually) and anyone who believes it should go fuck himself!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Afraid not, a traffic analysis of Windows 10 shows that not only is it sending data when you turn on your cam, or talk on your mike, but apparently they left the keylogger on from the beta so you might as well have somebody from MSFT standing behind you with a camera and notepad. Care to try again AC?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I've never understood the boot time argument in the post-Windows Vista world. You do that, what, once a day, maybe? For most people that don't shut down or reboot unnecessarily, it's once a week or so. You just saved 30 seconds out of a week. Who gives a shit?
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
You still have a choice: you can leave this vendor and pick another vendor
There was a multi-year long antitrust battle that Microsoft lost where the courts decided quite matter of fact that no, most people do not have that option.
MS tried to stick to a model (buy/own a product) that was antiquated by Google's model (ad supported). Google instead offers everything at no charge while making money off the ads they push in your face. Users have embraced this model (even if most claim they hate it). For that reason MS is changing it's offering by monetizing through ads + a cut of app sales. Some will argue that MS is late to the game but I believe they resisted the change because they though people would go back to owning software.
MS is in the process of killing themselves because they are unable to understand Google is a search engine and Windows is an operating system.
So at the end of the day these changes are the result of what users want (not us the techies).
Wrong, nobody wants it.
MS is in the process of killing themselves because they are unable to understand Google is a search engine and Windows is an operating system.
This is the perfect one-sentence expression of everything that's been wrong with Microsoft's Windows strategy in the last five years (at least).