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Quantum Computer Security? NASA Doesn't Want To Talk About It (csoonline.com)

itwbennett writes: At a press event at NASA's Advanced Supercomputer Facility in Silicon Valley on Tuesday, the agency was keen to talk about the capabilities of its D-Wave 2X quantum computer. 'Engineers from NASA and Google are using it to research a whole new area of computing — one that's years from commercialization but could revolutionize the way computers solve complex problems,' writes Martyn Williams. But when questions turned to the system's security, a NASA moderator quickly shut things down [VIDEO], saying the topic was 'for later discussion at another time.'

86 comments

  1. What you don't know can't hurt us ? by Crashmarik · · Score: 0

    Ahhh well, just another phase in the evolution of NASA from a can do engineering organization, to a can't do political pork barrel.

    1. Re:What you don't know can't hurt us ? by chispito · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ahhh well, just another phase in the evolution of NASA from a can do engineering organization, to a can't do political pork barrel.

      What the hell are you talking about? Nobody used that phrase but you. Watch the video. He gives a reasonable answer, and then they try to steer the questioning to other topics so it doesn't get bogged down.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    2. Re:What you don't know can't hurt us ? by ls671 · · Score: 2

      Nah, it is just because quantum computing is relativistic therefore, nothing they may say will always be true, it always depends of the user point of vue... ;-)

      http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/...

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    3. Re:What you don't know can't hurt us ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahhh well, just another phase in the evolution of NASA from a can do engineering organization, to a can't do political pork barrel.

      What the hell are you talking about? Nobody used that phrase but you. Watch the video. He gives a reasonable answer, and then they try to steer the questioning to other topics so it doesn't get bogged down.

      Indeed. Furthermore they were talking about security of the server. Not the capabilities of what the technology might be able to do. I wouldn't want to talk to the public about what my security procedures are either.

    4. Re:What you don't know can't hurt us ? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      A long time ago, we had a space shuttle that blew up with a teacher on it. That shuttle was named Challenger and after it blew up there was a rather lengthy period of downtime and a review. In that review a gentleman named Feynman stuck a gasket in a cup of ice water to show how brittle it was. Eventually, they solved this problem and launched the shuttle again.

      Why do I tell you that?

      Well, a couple of weeks before the shuttle resumed launching, NASA had their networks compromised and someone (they think it was an Australian) put a bit of "fake" malware on a bunch of their networked computers. The malware didn't do anything except display an image and say it was going to do something or threaten to do something.

      Why do I tell you that?

      Well, NASA's had shit security in the past and managed to fix it. They've overcome some of the most intense engineering issues of our time at so many levels that I can't even begin to enumerate them. That you're willfully ignorant of history says more about you than it says about NASA. They're still doing some of the best engineering on the planet. I think a good, recent, example would be a few snapshots of a planet(ish) body known as Pluto.

      They're doing fine.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    5. Re:What you don't know can't hurt us ? by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Well I think I found the guy dosing on LSD.

    6. Re:What you don't know can't hurt us ? by murdocj · · Score: 2

      Yeah, if you actually bother to take 2 minutes to watch the video, it doesn't match the "NASA moderator shut discussion down" description at all. This is just an attempt to generate controversy where there is none.

    7. Re: What you don't know can't hurt us ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're totally incoherent. Take your meds.

    8. Re: What you don't know can't hurt us ? by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      LOL I can't. Your post makes it obvious you took everyone's.

    9. Re: What you don't know can't hurt us ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nasa can take there computers, there stupid pictures, and there black budget and SHOVE IT UP THERE ASSESS

  2. What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like they are afraid of h4x0rs?

  3. I don't see why this is a story by chispito · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's a news conference and they likely weren't prepared to field security questions. That doesn't mean the security is lacking. It just isn't what they were there to talk about.

    --
    The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    1. Re:I don't see why this is a story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or all it takes is a cup of hot tea to compromise the quantum computer to the point where calculations are incorrect.

    2. Re:I don't see why this is a story by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's simpler than that. Quantum computing in this scale is in the area of heavy research, with a huge blanket of unknown unknowns; security is about mapping out your known and unknown unknowns and turning them into known resolvable state. You can't discuss security in this field yet because you have to discuss how the system *does* behave and how to ensure it *reliably* follows that behavior in the face of any and all unknown input states.

    3. Re:I don't see why this is a story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, all I need is a cup of hot tea to compromise my conventional computer to the point where it won't even boot too!

    4. Re:I don't see why this is a story by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 2

      It's a news conference and they likely weren't prepared to field security questions. That doesn't mean the security is lacking. It just isn't what they were there to talk about.

      That, and also they did field the security question. The answer to the question was ""It's behind various security firewalls, with RSA security tokens to get in," said David Bell, a director at the Universities Space Research Association".

      The headline here is very misleading.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    5. Re:I don't see why this is a story by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Is that a clueless whale falling? No, it's an average Slashdot reader!

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    6. Re:I don't see why this is a story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but when you do it with a quantum computer you can make the hostess's undergarments quantum tunnel 2 feet to the left, which is considerably more useful and controversial.

      Really it's juts that the folks at NASA are annoyed they don't get invited to those sort of parties driving the controversy however.

    7. Re:I don't see why this is a story by ripvlan · · Score: 2

      This is such a bullshit making a mountain from a molehill article. The moderator did not "quickly shut things down" - the above OP is crap.

      "Hi - we're here to talk about the new Ford Mustang" --- Question: "What do you think of the decision to use Aluminum in the F150 frame?" "uh - yeah - great idea, lots of interesting engineering problems to solve ... Next Question"

      You are Correct. If you listen to the Video the host answers the question asked - but says effectively "this isn't what we came to talk about" - and continues to do his best to answer the question anyhow. After that the moderator comes on and says that this is off topic and further questions will be taken offline.

      While I agree that security should be thought of from the get-go, they came to talk about something specific. the OP pulled a 10 second clip and skewed it.

    8. Re:I don't see why this is a story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bennet posted this here so D-Wave could get shit on. I don't have a horse in the D-wave race, but that's my impression.

  4. Re: Joining the GNAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Trollin' like it's 1999.

    You go girl!

  5. translated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...a NASA moderator quickly shut things down [VIDEO], saying the topic was 'for later discussion at another time.'

    No, you may not ask us how the NSA plans to use the d-wavies to make mince meat of all existing encryption protocols.

    1. Re:translated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just get some proper one-time pads for your secrets and you'll be fine. Even if they got working quantum computers.

    2. Re:translated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just get some proper one-time pads for your secrets and you'll be fine.

      Can you get those pads at Office Depot? Are they expensive?

    3. Re:translated by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Actually that has nothing to do with the question asked. I assumed that would be the gist as well, but it was more "what are you doing to protect the computer from hackers", which was pointed out as being off-topic but got a brief answer anyway. Very disappointing, this article was total click-bait.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  6. Hmmm . . . related to IBM grant? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm wondering if this fits in with this story about a quantum computing grant for IBM, as well: http://www.zdnet.com/article/i...

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  7. Really need SIDH ECDSA ASAP by exabrial · · Score: 1

    Really need SIDH ECDSA ASAP... Nothing seems to have been officiated as of yet though :/

  8. NASA moderator quickly shut things down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    The "NASA moderator quickly shut things down?"

    Watch the video. Who gives a fuck?

    By shutting it down during questions about security, it could mean they don't have any more prepared answers and don't want to talk about it. That's not what the press event was for. csoonline's headline is making it sound like the questioner was asking Dangerous Questions About Black-Op Shit We're Not Supposed To Talk About.

    1. Re:NASA moderator quickly shut things down by Tailhook · · Score: 2

      The press conference had to do with this D-Wave quantum computing system and its capabilities. It was not a forum for hashing out general security questions. The reporters question wasn't specific to D-Wave or anything in particular; just "government computers". And the panel didn't "shut down" anything, either.

      This is another low quality click-baity "story" like that Intel-AMD crap that got posted yesterday.

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    2. Re:NASA moderator quickly shut things down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot has been a conspiracy blog for a while now, so this is what you should expect. It's rough when a community likes to think of themselves as smart after all the actual smart people left due to the reactionary, conspiracy dopes pretending to be smart.

    3. Re:NASA moderator quickly shut things down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the conspiracy is generated from the first TFA by mischaracterizing the whole benign exchange about the system security of the D-Wave system. It's sad that more Slashdotters uncritically accept the shit the media spews, but in this case it's the media fault for pushing the conspiracy angle.

    4. Re:NASA moderator quickly shut things down by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      And no women will date Slashdotters! Now there's a conspiracy.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    5. Re:NASA moderator quickly shut things down by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      " It's rough when a community likes to think of themselves as smart after all the actual smart people left ...." - Emphasis Added

      And yet you are still here. I guess that tells us what you think of yourself ...

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  9. as a nasa scientist i can explain. by nimbius · · Score: 5, Funny

    As a scientist working with quantum computing I can explain exactly why we dont talk about security and quantum computing. Last month we executed a security benchmark against it, and unfortunely the act of measuring the system security managed to accidentally change the entire quantum computer into a loaf of artisinal bread. We worked hard to change it back, by attempting to measure how inseucure the device was, but in turn only managed to collapse the waveform and ended up with a loaf of bread that was also a quantum computer. Weve not been entirely truthful with the public about this in the past but we can assure you that once we assemble what our team is tentatively referring to as a wheel of quantum swiss and a quantum superposition of 3 kinds of smoked meat, this hamiltonian evolution of delicious cold cut should get us back to a regular quantum computer. security concerns so far are centered around penetration attacks, and keith on the second floor trying to use the quantum artisinal loaf for a peanut butter and banana (regular, not quantum) sandwich.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:as a nasa scientist i can explain. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

      There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

    2. Re:as a nasa scientist i can explain. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I can tell that this post is a troll. Everybody knows that quantum computing uses cats, not loaves of artisinal bread.

    3. Re:as a nasa scientist i can explain. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can tell that this post is a troll. Everybody knows that quantum computing uses cats, not loaves of artisinal bread.

      Ah, but you forgot about the cat herders, who like to consume artisanal bread while standing high atop the quantum fields...

    4. Re:as a nasa scientist i can explain. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

      There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

      I'm assuming in this alternate universe it is reasonable and customary to not credit a beloved author...

    5. Re:as a nasa scientist i can explain. by kheldan · · Score: 2

      No, YOU are the troll here, because everyone knows that quantum computing uses cats with buttered toast strapped to their backs! That, plus ferrets with perpetual IV drips of Rockstar as bus transceivers.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    6. Re:as a nasa scientist i can explain. by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      Once again, Schrödinger's cat offers us some valuable insight here. A quantum computer is both secure and insecure . . . at the same time!

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    7. Re:as a nasa scientist i can explain. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a five-dimensional footlong!

  10. bad summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just watched TFV, and I would say the summary is misleading when it states that " a NASA moderator quickly shut things down." It was not quick. The question was rather routine about the fact NASA and well as other fed agencies had had their systems targeted for hacking and whether the D-Wave had any special protection. The speaker remarked that the question was a bit off topic from the press announcement, but did acknowledge that these computer systems would be targets, and that without going into detail, said that access controls are in place to protect the systems. He basically gave as complete an answer to the question as was merited. It was only after he finished speaking that the NASA moderator calmly said the topic could be discussed at a later time. It wasn't quick, nobody was cut off, or prevented from answering the question.

  11. Re:Joining the GNAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm a lesbian bowl of grits, and I'm HOT.

    Natalie - why don't you ever call anymore?

  12. Use pre-shared keys by sinij · · Score: 1

    All modern crypto, except key exchange, withstands quantum computing fairly well. Unfortunately, you will get pwned and get your symmetric keys extracted during key exchange. The only work-around that I am aware of is using preshared keys.

    1. Re:Use pre-shared keys by sinij · · Score: 1

      One of us doesn't know what they are talking about.

      Presently, there is no drastic efficiency gain in breaking symmetric cryptography. For example, AES does well against QC.. Consequently, brute forcing AES512 is as infeasible with QC as with conventional computing. This may change as new QC algorithms are developed. Crystallographic breakdown due to QC happens at the key exchange stage, where it is possible to efficiently extract keys from the shared secret. If you side-step this by using pre shared keys, then your cryptography will be largely impervious to QC.

      Feel free to FUD, but the problem space is already well-defined.

    2. Re:Use pre-shared keys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The DWave does not, as far as I know, run anything remotely like Shor's algorithm. It is an Annealing machine, basically a hardware-implemented heuristic that is by no means a "quantum leap" beyond existing computer technology ;p

    3. Re:Use pre-shared keys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >(hint, they figure out the key in 1 clock cycle if working as predicted)

      This is complete horse shit.

    4. Re:Use pre-shared keys by FrankSchwab · · Score: 1

      Do you understand the difference between public key cryptography and symmetric key cryptography? Can you succinctly explain why comparing Diffie-Helman to AES is like comparing an apple to a metamorphic rock?

      Answer those questions, my son, then feel free to come back and comment on matters of encryption. Until then, STFU.

      --
      And the worms ate into his brain.
    5. Re:Use pre-shared keys by FrankSchwab · · Score: 1

      Sorry, this got posted as a child of the wrong parent. Please ignore.

      --
      And the worms ate into his brain.
    6. Re:Use pre-shared keys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He mentioned quantum computers, not specifically D-Wave. I know, reading comprehension is a bitch.

    7. Re:Use pre-shared keys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be so deceptive here. We all know Enigma, Sigaba and TypeX never actually worked. Instead they used drunken bats to relay messages from hq to tanks. It was totally infeasible to fly key material to the users. That would have required alien technology like the Fieseler Storch.

    8. Re:Use pre-shared keys by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      Please look up Shor's Algorithm if you want to understand how quantum computers affect crypto (hint, they figure out the key in 1 clock cycle if working as predicted)

      Sometimes you just have to say Fuck Off

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
  13. Heisenberg answer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They couldn't be sure about which answer to give...they are still thinking about it

  14. gentlemen, start your conspiracy theorizing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NSA + A = NASA

    1. Re:gentlemen, start your conspiracy theorizing... by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 2

      NSA + ALEX = ANAL SEX

    2. Re:gentlemen, start your conspiracy theorizing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NSA + ALEX = ANAL SEX

      Ironically an accurate way to describe how quantum computing will likely ass-rape our privacy in the future, since everyone keeps fearing the only thing these devices will do all day is crack crypto like an egg.

    3. Re:gentlemen, start your conspiracy theorizing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How are they going to assrape it more completely and utterly than it has already been? We are well past goatse.cx.

    4. Re:gentlemen, start your conspiracy theorizing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you have nothing to hide. Or something.

  15. Different question by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

    How about Quantum Computer Porn? Do they have anything to say about that?

    1. Re:Different question by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Doesn't sound much fun.... "Is it in yet?" "I am not sure- you will have to look first!"

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
  16. Re:Joining the GNAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >black person?
    >GAY black person?

    When did the GNAA get PC? What, are you afraid of microagressin' against their feez? Can anybody stop this SJWs madness!?

    0/10

  17. Not dealing with the real issue by JoshuaZ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This doesn't really deal with the real issue, the fact that the vast majority of what D-Wave is doing is complete hype with a very tiny chance of having any practical impacts. It isn't even clear that the type of problems D-Wave's machines can handle are problems where we should expect any substantial speedup from quantum computers. D-Wave's latest attempt at claiming that their computers show noticeable speedup is less lacking than some of their previous claims, but still not at all impressive. See Scott Aaronson's blog post http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2535 where he notes that the D-Wave machine both doesn't give any apparent asymptotic speedup and is beaten by the best classical computers. The real question isn't security but why NASA is wasting money on this instead of more promising quantum computing research.

    1. Re:Not dealing with the real issue by JoshuaZ · · Score: 1

      Ugh, linked to the wrong one of Scott's posts. The correct one is http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2555.

  18. they can't talk about it.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the agency of the same name, sans the first 'a', says so.

  19. why is NASA doing quantum computing at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is NASA doing quantum computing at all? What does it have to do with airplane research, rockets, or humans in space?

    1. Re:why is NASA doing quantum computing at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is NASA doing quantum computing at all? What does it have to do with airplane research, rockets, or humans in space?

      All of those things take a lot of computer power to model, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that exactly the kind of math a quantum computer would be good for?

    2. Re:why is NASA doing quantum computing at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd be quite willing to bet that simulated annealing - the classical counterpart to what the D-Wave does - was used in developing most of NASA's experimental aircraft, rockets, and putting humans into space.

    3. Re:why is NASA doing quantum computing at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's a lot more complex than that. I don't think a quantum computer would speed up ray tracing, for example, nearly as much as it does for modeling efficient ways to pack boxes into a UPS truck. It depends on what you mean by modeling--the particular problems involved in crafting and running the model--and whether and what kinds of short-cuts to the equations exist which are useable by QC.

      But in answering the OP, I think you're pretty spot on. NASA can develop cool stuff faster as more of the development iterations can be performed in simulations. The benefit of modeling is relative to the kind of problem you're solving, but for large, complex machines, even where there's no substitute for many cycles of physical mockups and trial+error testing, there are innumerable components where almost the entire development process is unarguably best done via modeling. And as computers and algorithms improve, this will become true for increasingly more complex components.

      A recent commenter on Slashdot or HN in a sub-thread of a page discussing the recent NY Times B-52 article stated that it was in fact the Russians who came up with the fundamental equations for building the B-2 Spirit stealth bomber. (In context I think he actually meant the F-117 Nighthawk, which is several years older.) But only the Americans had the computational power to solve the equations. I don't know if the statement is true, but it at least exemplifies why somebody in the business of building big machines (ignoring for the moment the other roles NASA is tasked with) would be so interested in computer modeling. (A quick Google search suggests the statement may have been based on the publications of the Soviet mathematician Petr Ufimtsev--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr_Ufimtsev).

  20. Re:Joining the GNAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you GAY?
    Are you a black person?
    Are you a GAY black person?

    I know you are, but what am I?

  21. The program is named ... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

    Engineers from NASA and Google are using it to research a whole new area of computing — one that's years from commercialization but could revolutionize the way computers solve complex problems, ...

    ... Jabberwocky ...

    [ Sorry, I guess that's only funny if you've seen the TV show Better Off Ted. ]

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  22. Normal network security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ok, I'm assuming that they connect to this thing remotely and just have a monitor and keyboard stuck into it directly.
    If that's the case, how is it really different to the security of any other system?
    Lock it in a room, shove it behind the normal network protections.

  23. Re:Joining the GNAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The old school is dead.

  24. Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it is both secure and not secure. and insecure. and somewhere in the middle. and everywhere else. definitely maybe.

  25. before, now, future state of QC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, this question is probably so obvious to anyone reading these comments, I can't even call it a "conspiracy" theory per se...

    If you take the typical "model" of technology announcements, and presume that the "real" breakthrough happened 1-3 generations of this technology ago, and apply it here, is it true?
    Should we now assume that NSA (oops, I "forgot" the A) has had this technology for several years? I'm not heavily interested in quantum computing, so it may be ignorant, but I can just imagine a few racks of version 2.0 or 3.0 of these things already having made every bit (ha) of encryption on the planet obsolete....

  26. Curious question... by LongearedBat · · Score: 1

    cats with buttered toast strapped to their backs

    - Cats land on their feet.
    - Buttered toast lands with the buttered side down.
    - Which way does a cat+buttered toast land when the toast is strapped with the buttered side facing away from the cats back?

    1. Re:Curious question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, I think that was your point. Never mind me. Move along...
      ~ LongearedBat

    2. Re:Curious question... by kheldan · · Score: 1

      Which way does a cat+buttered toast land when the toast is strapped with the buttered side facing away from the cats back?

      It depends on whether you're watching or not; it's called the 'observer effect'. XD

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  27. If they want to talk about it at the same time by Pvt_Ryan · · Score: 1

    NASA could be in a quantum state

  28. DUH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is, and is not, secure at the same time.

  29. Dont want to talk about it. by RalphOstrander4038 · · Score: 1

    But make me pay for it.

  30. 'for later discussion at another time' ??? by smhsmh · · Score: 1

    If NASA actually has a a real, practical, working quantum computer, they could discuss it any time they want, both earlier and later. And still could have the discussion any time after they first built the damn thing.

    Seriously, for NASA to clam up like this is atypical of usual NASA culture. I suspect one or another of our 3-letter agencies have been pressuring them.