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TSA Body Scanner Opt-out No Longer Guaranteed (slashgear.com)
codguy writes: Up to now, airline passengers have been able opt out of the TSA's Advanced Imaging Technologies (AIT) whole body scanners, and request a physical pat-down for their security check. But ProPublica journalist Julia Angwin points out that a rule change on December 18, 2015 now allows the TSA to compel some passengers to use these scanners instead of giving them a pat-down. The updated rule says, "While passengers may generally decline AIT screening in favor of physical screening, TSA may direct mandatory AIT screening for some passengers," (PDF source). Of course, the criteria for when this can happen is completely unspecified, and one can easily imagine them abusing this by deciding to compel anyone who requests a pat-down to go through the scanners for some reasonable cause from their perspective. Guilty until proven innocent?
Just build a wall, ok?
Get it over with.
At first I was going to flame you a bit for saying that by purchasing a ticket I'm waiving my rights to not be unreasonably searched. But I'm really just tired of the whole police state thing. I just won't fly commercial. It won't change anything - there are too few people who are willing to be inconvenienced in order to preserve our rights, so Police State wins, I lose.
I'm really tired of this crap.
This is definitely our main security concern in airports. Especially when traveling domestically!
I have been opting out for years and appreciate my right to do so. If push comes to shove I would cancel my trip if I was compelled. Is any analysis available if I would be able to get a refund from Visa in this circumstance? Is any documentation possible to get from TSA possible to support such a claim. And is there any other form of non violent protest that I can do on the spot which would not get me put in jail / shit / no-fly listed? Seeking serious answers for a principled person.
Actually, it's walking on thin ice. The right to assemble is guaranteed in the first amendment, and implicit in that is the right to travel. It can be argued, quite rationally, that travel by plane is part of that. I want to travel to Hawaii? Sure, you could take a boat and spend a week round trip in transit, but that's quite a penalty. And what stops a nefarious government from starting a "no public transit" list? And if they revoke your drivers license? Where do we draw the line? What if we're in a not-too-distant future where private ownership of cars is a thing of the past and you can be denied any travel that you can't walk to?
It's not for this. And no, an SD card would be easy. Put it in your mouth, between your buttcheeks, taped to your skin, almost any way to get it through. Or just put it in your wallet with your phone. These scans are only searching for bombs/guns, and only have a 5% success rate. Theatre.
I am more concerned about the clear sign saying "DO NOT USE IF PREGNANT OR MEDICAL CONDITION".
Go fuck yourself. If you are not suspected of a crime, nor have had a writ or warrant signed by a judge, there is no legal basis for a search. "Purchasing a ticket" does not give anyone the legal basis to violate your rights. If you believe that, you're part of the problem.
Fortunately, I won't willingly subject myself to being treated like a slave so I stay as far away from airports as I possibly can. If I ever do have to go to the airport again, I'll be sure and opt-out for the patdown. Of course, I'll also make sure I take 2-3 extra strength Viagra before I turn up at the checkpoint.
And an SD card is a security hazard how exactly?
A pat-down probably won't find an SD card with encrypted data -- a body scan probably would.
What's your point? I have several SD cards that are encrypted. They're in my laptop bag and get scanned every time. Why would I try to hide them? They're not illegal.
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
I would agree but only if the scanner is of the safe sort which uses Terahertz radiation. While a pat down would not be pleasant I'd take it any day over the backscatter X-ray scanners which have a tiny, but non-zero, chance of giving you cancer. While this risk is tiny there is absolutely no need to take it given that there are perfectly safe scanners available. So if the TSA is going to be able to compel you to get scanned then they need to be compelled to provide safe scanners which use non-ionizing radiation.
Wanting to go see grandma does not equal wanting to get skin cancer and nowhere on an airline ticket does it say you will be forced to endure radiation
I don't like these scanners either, but please don't be an idiot. The amount of ionizing radiation you get from the scanner is radically smaller than the extra amount you are going to get from spending time in an aircraft at 38000 ft, or eating a banana. Both risks are vanishingly small compared to the risk you incurred by driving to the airport.
Flying across the country will subject you to about 4,000 microrem. The TSA scanners, about 5 microrem. Independent (non-TSA affiliated) tests of over 700 scanners showed all were at or below their radiation targets.
There are plenty of good reasons to object to these scanners without introducing pseudscientific bullshit into it. Doing so just gives the other side of this debate more ammo to shoot down our side, who look like loons when they spout this kind of stuff. You want to object to the scanners? Great. Let's do it on civil rights grounds.
I fly during the primary holidays and I always opt-out ever since the process started. I've never had any issues so far and everyone has been respectable, more annoyed that they have to do extra work than anything else. Interestingly the times when it was very busy they stopped asking people to take off their shoes and let us keep our laptops in their bags.
Skin cancer runs in my family, so that's the reason I opt-out. I have no clue if the scanners promote cancer or not, but why take the risk? I'm already getting a radiation dose from flying. Do I have any recourses if they refuse my opt-out?
Are you aware of the danger of a simple mechanical failure? These are raster machines so they scan you by bombarding you with a paper thin plane beam than pans down your body. If that beam stops, even for a few seconds then it would irradiate the cells along that plane with a massive dose. Not "pseudo science".
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as an american, I avoid outright any travel during the holidays. I can visit my family cheaper and with far less hassle any other time during the year. That having been said -- and I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion -- I've had relatively productive experiences with the TSA sans a few minor run-ins, likely enacted as part of the general TSA theatricality.
Returning to LA from Ohio on a business trip I was detained after an explosives detector found something on my hands. I was led to a small concrete room with two bluecoats and my carry-on was privately searched. I explained a bar of soap, and they packed everything as they found it and sent me on my way. Another time, I decided to exit the very tedious screening line to get a beer at an adjacent microbrewery in the portland airport. Big mistake. I was detained by police and questioned for leaving the line. I told them the line was boring, and I wanted beer. After refusing to answer a few questions about religion and my laptop password, my laptop was confiscated and i was free to return to the pub. I rescheduled my flight, shared a laugh with the bartender, and re-entered the line only to be followed by the cops again to my gate. My laptop was returned, along with an apology and some rambling nonsense about muslims. They didnt crack a smile until I asked how many beers the average muslim drinks in a day.
Travel is simple, with a few caveats*, in america. board with a smile, speak softly, dress comfortably, and keep entertained. Im willing to suspect most TSA officers wont turn away a kind face asking for an opt out.
*simple travel may not be available to anyone of middle eastern, south asian, or african american descent.
Good people go to bed earlier.
I'm with you. I have been opting out since day one. Should I be required I will simply, and calmly refuse. If they do not allow me and my family to board then I will demand a refund from the airline since I agreed to a screening but not an irradiated, 95% failure rate one. They will have to issue a refund or book me on a later flight. If not, I will issue a chargeback on my card and sue them and the TSA, and FAA, for any damages. If enough of us stand up there is a chance, if everyone continues to be spineless sheep then we are screwed. Disney just installed metal detectors at parks, work that one out and you will see where we are headed as a society. Stand the hell up for yourself and others!
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"Guilty until proven innocent?"
No, not at all. You waive your rights when you purchase your ticket, which is a voluntary act. By purchasing your ticket, you are agreeing to the conditions attached to it, which include submitting to a search. If you don't want to be searched, don't buy a ticket, and find another way to travel.
Oy. I really can't stand this argument. Yes, it's voluntary; just like having a bank account and a computer and a credit card and a job and a home are all voluntary. Maybe when people buy houses they should all be required to have surveillance cameras installed. Buying a home is voluntary, so if people don't like being watched they are free to simply not buy a house. Why not just search everyone walking down the street? After all, it's completely voluntary to walk down the street. No one is forcing you are they?
But what am I to do to visit my aunt in France? Should I take a steamship? What if I'm flying for business and I don't want to go through the scanner? Should I quit my job? I mean, having a job is voluntary right? No one is forcing me to keep my job. The thing is, while many things are technically voluntary, they are also required to participate in the modern world. That's why the voluntary nature of these things is irrelevant. The point is whether these rules are proper and constitutional. I happen to think not. I know the Supreme Court has removed my rights at border crossings. But I don't have to like or agree with it. That, after all, is voluntary.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Analysis? Not that I know about. But I would almost certainly say that no, you would not get a refund from VISA for refusing to go through security screening, something you are implicitly agreeing to by obtaining a ticket in the first place.
:)
For me, I just want them to stop moving old people into the TSA PreCheck lane, or at least start giving them better instructions on what to do when they get there. I didn't pay all that money to watch you take your 10 year old Dell laptop out of the bag and start fiddling with your belt and shoes.
Sorry that's now how it works. The TSA is a government agency, not a private organization, they don't get to ignore your rights, regardless of any conditions your sign or agree too with a "private" airline. You literally cannot sign away your rights like this.
Even in criminal plea deals you still have to declare guilt to a crime in court in front of a judge.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
These are raster machines so they scan you by bombarding you with a paper thin plane beam than pans down your body. If that beam stops, even for a few seconds then it would irradiate the cells along that plane with a massive dose. Not "pseudo science".
That's not true at all. These machines are are a phased array transducer. It emits a pulsed waves that radiate out in all directions. Interferometry of the reflected wave and the transmitter's position is used to reconstruct the 3D image. It's basically a form of synthetic aperture radar using millimeter wave radio.
A pat-down probably won't find an SD card with encrypted data -- a body scan probably would.
What's your point? I have several SD cards that are encrypted. They're in my laptop bag and get scanned every time. Why would I try to hide them? They're not illegal.
They're encrypted. Just give it time.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
is now required to opt out.
You waive your rights when you purchase your ticket
Do you know what "inalienable" means?
You can't "waive" your due process rights any more than you can sell yourself into slavery.
Please link to one instance of this happening at a real TSA scanner.
So you admit that the 95% failure rate in tests to detect explosives by the TSA was not due to "mechanical failure"?
You can't have it both ways. It's either useful and keeps us safer or it it's a complete clusterfuck.
(Insert comment about feeling up/scanning genitals and how it makes me feel safe to board a plane.)
So if they "administratively" search you and find illegal drugs or kiddie porn (as examples) then you're free to go? Yah, didn't think so.
I'd rather not be irradiated in the first place.
And please indicate where these are at all effective. Note that in the TSA's own tests they missed nearly all guns and explosives. What's the point of these body scanners, other than allowing the TSA to get the equivalent of nylon filtered pornography? It's obvious the scanners do fuck all for security.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
What will be next is real-time analysis of waste streams from peoples' homes (hey, it's a public utility, so...). Evidence of booze, drugs, diabetes, etc. will be shared with the police states' partners in the health insurance industry.
The frog-boiling will start with those in public housing / assistance, because eff the poor, right?
We can discuss the mechanics by which they "work" all day, but honestly, in my own experience, they don't work in the sense that they have way too many false positives.
I have pretty long hair down to my lower back, and in my experience, the scanners have a tendency to flag various points on my upper back simply because my hair is there. It's gotten to the point where I automatically assume I'm going to need a pat-down because of it flinging yellow squares all over my upper back on the TSA's monitor.
The funny thing to me is that I fly often enough and I've gotten so used to it that I'll typically crack a joke about it as soon as I get into the scanner, and when I turn out to be right, half the time the TSA agent just waves me through because he or she realizes that I've been through this so many times that I've come to expect the false-positives. That's one hell of a vote of confidence, when the actual users of the scanners don't even have faith in the results.
To digress, I do have to say that 99% of the TSA agents I've encountered have been unflaggingly polite. I think it's easy for a lot of us to lose sight of the fact that ultimately, most of these people didn't sign up for the alluring chance of getting to feel up grandma, they signed up because it was a job, and in today's job market said jobs are pretty scarce. They're not demonic shock troops, they're just Joe Q. Average people who want to get through their 8 hours and then go home and knock back a beer or two. If you don't go through security with an attitude, you typically won't get one back.
The TSA does not work for the airline. They work for the airport. There's a huge difference there.
Personally, I believe that the TSA having to look at my near-naked scan is probably punishment enough for whatever they've done to me that trip. I'd call it even.
-Styopa
I don't like these scanners either, but please don't be an idiot.
The amount of ionizing radiation you get from the scanner is radically smaller than the extra amount you are going to get from spending time in an aircraft at 38000 ft, or eating a banana.
Flying across the country will subject you to about 4,000 microrem. The TSA scanners, about 5 microrem. Independent (non-TSA affiliated) tests of over 700 scanners showed all were at or below their radiation targets.
It is not possible to compare numbers like this. The type of radiation and area/organs exposed are all critically important.
X-ray scanners tend to deposit most of their energy close to the skin (1" or so) The exposure profile is different from random gamma strikes with a normal distribution throughout the body.
There are plenty of good reasons to object to these scanners without introducing pseudscientific bullshit into it. Doing so just gives the other side of this debate more ammo to shoot down our side, who look like loons when they spout this kind of stuff.
If LNT is correct people are getting cancer and dying as a result of x-ray body scanners. While your _individual_ risk is low giving a shit about unnecessary and entirely preventable deaths does not seem like a "bullshit" argument to me.
Well, then you really shouldn't fly. As mentioned above, you will incur far more radiation from the actual flight than from anything the scanners could do to you.
You'll need to provide proof of the levels of radiation you'll be exposed to. Hint - there are no documented tests detailing what these machines release, because... NATIONAL SECURITY!!!! (My guess, the theater involved makes me gag as much as a soap opera) In any case, any extra radiation is amazingly "extra" and not necessary. I'll continue to refuse "extra" and unnecessary radiation exposure at every opportunity.
By all means, complain about your loss of rights - I despise TSA myself - but if we're dishonest about our rejection of TSA then we're no better than the deceptive methods by which they seized control of our airports.
I don't believe I'm in the least dishonest about my opinions of the TSA and their largely useless and, IMNSHO, unconstitutional activities. The only activity that will have a direct effect on preventing a repeat of 9-11, the previously mentioned cockpit security doors, was finally implemented and is the only reasonable thing that was done. Scanning baggage is fine as well, and doesn't require loss of privacy. There are numerous non privacy violating steps that are more effective than the current security theater that they won't do, except for special "pre-approved" people. The simplest are metal scanners. I guarantee you a standard gun won't make it through a metal scanner, for instance, per the previously linked TSA failures. I still never fathomed why metal scanners weren't part of the process, everyone should walk through one. It's fast, simple, easy.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Not at all. Guilty, period. Whether or not you prove your innocence.
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
At first I was going to flame you a bit for saying that by purchasing a ticket I'm waiving my rights to not be unreasonably searched. But I'm really just tired of the whole police state thing. I just won't fly commercial. It won't change anything - there are too few people who are willing to be inconvenienced in order to preserve our rights, so Police State wins, I lose.
I'm really tired of this crap.
At the very least we can recognize that this is a police state!
When airport security checkpoints were run as part of the airline business (and were every bit as effective as the TSA without the loss of dignity), this was an inconvenience, but not a constitutional issue. Now you're searched by government employees without probable cause. "Waiving" constitutional rights is a bit of self-serving government nonsense that no one should fall for.
It's just as bad at the courthouse. I'm legally compelled to enter the building by my jury summons. I get search by police without probable cause. No where in the Constitution does it say "unless we're scared". The government is supposed to be scared of the people. But we've fallen as a nation, and the people are now scared of the government.
I'm really tired of this crap, too.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
They've "only" destroyed 9 Medtronic insulin pumps ... what's 9 dead people compared to a technology proven to stop terrorists at airports, as evidenced by our large number of public trials, and the terrorists subsequently jailed, thanks to AIT scanners.
What do you mean, we've not caught a single terrorist with an AIT scanner? Are you sure?!? Try Googling it... you *must* be wrong! AIT scanners are good for you!
I've heard that doesn't work.
There have been reports of people deciding not to go on their trip when confronted with an invasive security procedure, and then being detained and questions at that point.
Their obvious reasoning being that if you suddenly change your mind you must be hiding something you thought would be revealed if you'd continued.
Just like the old Wargames joke: Seems the only way to win is not to play.
-- Why not just search everyone walking down the street? After all, it's completely voluntary to walk down the street. No one is forcing you are they? --
----
They have this already -- it's called "Stop and Frisk" -- very common in New York City, *if* you're not the right color.
Yes, we *are* living in a Police State.
At least, some of us are.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
I opt out just about every time. I take about 14-18 flights a year for business and I have only seen another opt out at the same time as me once in the past few years. There just aren't that many opt outs anymore. I'm not surprised at all that the police state is tightening the noose a bit more. On the plus side for those interested in opting out I have not had any of the experiences that everyone loves to joke about (ie cavity searches, hours of detention, etc). I did once have a TSA officer mouth off about sending me to the back of the line. I reported him to his boss but there was no further incident there. Another time a big burly TSA agent tried to intimidate me which I found funny. He was all talk and I knew that his options were limited. Another time their machine claimed it found something so I was taken to a side room. That time I admit I was wondering what was next but it was just another pat down by a different person who then used a different machine. Opt out while you still can :-)
no offence taken. I personally consider the pushing back against what is in essence a completely wastefull, invasive, and ineffective use of my tax dollars a worthwhile endeavor. I dont think you realize just how harmfull the TSA's tactics are to the USA and it's citizens. By spending massive amounts of money on what every single security expert knows is nothing more than security theatre, they are not spending it on genuine security measures. That along with the erosion of freedom they represent is not something I will allow to happen in my name and to me with indifference. As far as my nakedness is concerned, I dont care. In fact, I fully plan on taking off all my clothing except my boxers should they try to force me into the machine.
"This message was sent from an Apple
Yes, it is a completely fallacious argument. I can write anything I want to in a contract, up to and including you giving me your first-born child and your immortal soul, or terms that stipulate that if you back out of a contract, you agree to commit suicide within 72 hours or you must pay me 100% of your wages for the remainder of your natural life. That doesn't mean that such a contract would be enforceable. In this country, unconscionable contract terms are routinely thrown out by the courts, particularly in contracts of adhesion (which any airline ticket purchase is, by definition, because you are not permitted to negotiate the terms of carriage with the airline).
Furthermore, the right to travel (including the right to air travel) is a fundamental component of free speech and free assembly rights, which are protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. Any government action that substantively abridges those rights (as, for example, requiring you to be virtually strip searched prior to boarding an airplane) is a blatantly unconstitutional act that must be overturned by the courts, or else the Bill of Rights has no meaning whatsoever. You cannot sign away your constitutional rights, period. The courts have been very consistent in voicing that opinion.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Perhaps I should have said "I'd rather not subject myself voluntarily to additional unnecessary and ineffectual radiation" since that would appear to appease the pedantic types. I'll repeat that no documentation exists (at least the last time I checked) of exactly what these machines exactly spit out, how much, what their variance is, and exactly what effect it has on people. Or even animals. No testing was done. When is the last time you saw entirely unregulated electronics being used on general populations?
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
I am not advocating anything but I am reminding...
You are ruled by consent. If you, and your fellow citizens, desire a change in governance then you have the power to enact such changes. You just have to be REALLY sure you want to make those changes and you're going to need a bunch of people who agree with those changes.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."