Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

New York Begins Public Gigabit Wi-Fi Rollout (theverge.com)

Posted by Soulskill on from the music-industry-already-looking-for-a-way-to-sue-kiosks dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Workers in New York City have begun installing the city's first LinkNYC kiosks. The kiosks are free, public Wi-Fi access points, which are taking the spots formerly occupied by phone booths. 500 more of these hubs will be installed by mid-July, and the full network will eventually include over 7,500 of them. "Once completed, the hubs will also include USB device charging ports, touchscreen web browsing, and two 55-inch advertising displays." The displays are expected to bring the city $500 million in revenue over the next 12 years. When the project was announced in 2014, officials said construction would start "next year." They sure cut it close.

28 of 107 comments (clear)

  1. Great place to spread malware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You can set up your own hotspot and pwn a bunch of n00bs

    1. Re:Great place to spread malware by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

      And power it via NYC's own USB ports...

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  2. Who would plug into a random USB port? by TuballoyThunder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe I'm paranoid, but that just doesn't seem like a good idea.

    1. Re: Who would plug into a random USB port? by TuballoyThunder · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ...and I'm not just worried about the data security aspect. Can you trust the electrical specs?

    2. Re:Who would plug into a random USB port? by kheldan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're not at all paranoid, at least not in a bad way, for thinking that. I was just thinking that, so long as the device you want to charge just needs the 5 volt supply and not the data pair active, a good accessory to have would be a USB cable that has the data pair disconnected. That way if you do plug in somewhere in public, there's no chance of your device being compromised by malware. Now of course that won't protect you against someone sabotaging the port so it outright damages someone's device; has anyone heard of someone intentionally sabotaging USB ports so anything you plug into them gets damaged?

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    3. Re: Who would plug into a random USB port? by fustakrakich · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Somebody is going to make a bundle selling USB voltage regulators. As for data? The chargers don't use those pins

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    4. Re:Who would plug into a random USB port? by rsborg · · Score: 4, Informative

      You mean something like a USB Condom?

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    5. Re:Who would plug into a random USB port? by kheldan · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah, exactly, except someone who is handy could just get a short USB extension cable, strip back the outer jacket, expose the data pair (white and green twisted pair, I believe) and just cut them, then put heatshrink or electrical tape over where you modded the cable and you're done. Would cost you less than a dollar and take all of 10 minutes of your time.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    6. Re:Who would plug into a random USB port? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      a good accessory to have would be a USB cable that has the data pair disconnected.

      So basically, any cheap USB cable you can buy on Amazon. I've probably bought a half-dozen that would charge my Nexus, but not transfer data. Finally, I started buying the brand name cables and they'd be fine.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    7. Re: Who would plug into a random USB port? by Obfuscant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As for data? The chargers don't use those pins

      How do you KNOW that the USB socket you're about to plug your device into doesn't use those pins? You control the device, someone you don't know controls the thing you plug it in to.

      After all, there are people who manage to install stuff into ATMs that can read and transmit card data, so putting something in one of these kiosks is not beyond the pale. And the kiosk provider could even justify forcing your device to enumerate by saying they're only going to keep track of what devices are plugged in.

      And yes, some chargers do use the data pins as a way of identifying known devices to which they should provide power and at what maximum current. Thus you have Motorola chargers that won't charge a Sanyo phone, LG phones that won't charge from generic chargers, etc. (Names used for example only.) I spent a lot of time trying to get one of my phones (now obsolete) to charge from a standard USB charger and I found there are at least three different data-line signalling systems that were in use. "How many ohms to which other pins" was the common way.

    8. Re: Who would plug into a random USB port? by by+(1706743) · · Score: 4, Informative

      You can buy or make your own power-only cables. Doesn't address the aforementioned power spec issue, of course.

    9. Re: Who would plug into a random USB port? by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      The regulators will take of all that. The cord plugging into the public USB can avoid the data issues by simply not connecting the data pins. The 5volts and ground should always be there. It shouldn't be complicated.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    10. Re:Who would plug into a random USB port? by dissy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yeah, exactly, except someone who is handy could just get a short USB extension cable, strip back the outer jacket, expose the data pair (white and green twisted pair, I believe) and just cut them, then put heatshrink or electrical tape over where you modded the cable and you're done. Would cost you less than a dollar and take all of 10 minutes of your time.

      I've done pretty much exactly that before, although there was a couple additional steps involved.

      This was way back when the iPhone 3g just came out, and I was annoyed that most (real) USB chargers would do nothing more than connect the GND and +5v pins, which by USB spec is how the charger states it only has 500ma available.
      To inform a device there is more amperage available, the USB spec states you need to have voltage on the two data pins.

      The iPhone 3g could suck down up to 1000ma if available, which involved having +2.0v on one data pin, and a bit more on the other data pin. (+2.75v going by the link I found below. Sorry, the memory isn't too good these days)

      I had a USB extension cable laying around that had a normal USB connector on one end, and a small weighted plastic base on the other end with the jack. It was intended to sit on your desk and let you plug in flash drives and be all pretty and convenient I think.
      But to me the plastic base was the perfect place to solder in the two resistors between +5v and the data pins and keep all the ugliness out of sight.

      The cable was something like this, although not the exact same model:
      http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-5ft-Desktop-Extension-Cable/dp/B001K9BFB8

      Here is a lookup table of resistances/voltages needed on the two data pins to signal various amperages:
      https://www.voltaicsystems.com/blog/choosing-usb-pin-voltages-for-iphones-and-ipads/

      Doing the soldering free-hand instead of digging up some perfboard made it take about 15 minutes, so you are pretty spot on.
      I already had the parts laying around so didn't cost me anything, but that USB cable on amazon above was just the first result I found so I'm sure isn't the cheapest available, but even that is only $7.

      Since then the "USB Condoms" other people have been posting about have dropped in price to about the same as building one yourself, plus they look a lot slicker and professionally made, and quite short compared to my 3 foot monstrosity, so I just purchase them now.

      Not only does such a device help protect your hardware from the unknowns out there, but in the case of Apple connecting an iOS device over USB would auto-launch iTunes, an annoyingly long and most of the time unwanted process just to get a bit of recharge.
      There have been other devices in the past I remember doing similar, auto running some software when the computer detects it. Totally annoying when one is capable of running programs on their own when needed :P

      Thankfully Android never went down that path, but even there a USB condom is useful as the devices usually show up as a flash drive with your camera pictures on it which could be copied from you unwantingly, and a few models I have seen expose this as read/write!
      At work I have group policies set to deny read access to any "\\\\.\\autorun.inf" file (aka that file at the root of any drive path) as well as to log to a server the fact explorer.exe tried to read one along with the exe name it tries to run.
      A co-workers Android phone got infected by Windows malware we discovered this way, as some infected PC copied an autorun.inf and a [random-letters].exe to his phone, to attempt to infect other Windows PCs it got connected to.
      Obviously the phone itself wasn't infected, and as he mainly only plugged the thing in at home (Linux) and at work (Windows yes but with the above GPO), and so he never noticed it was playing infectious carrier to anything he plugged into.

      TL;DR - Always be safe and wrap yur wire!

    11. Re: Who would plug into a random USB port? by Rob+Lister · · Score: 2

      Thus you have Motorola chargers that won't charge a Sanyo phone, LG phones that won't charge from generic chargers, etc. (Names used for example only.)

      That's a valid issue but a temporary one. Even now, USB 3.1 is pretty much standardizing charging. There was a recent PC World article testing this. Interesting read

      USB-C charging: Universal or bust! We plug in every device we have to chase the dream Four devices and five chargers tell us just how close we are.

      Link: http://www.pcworld.com/article...

  3. Do these guys understand public infrastructure? by goodmanj · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This sounded like a fine idea until they mentioned USB ports. Those suckers are gonna be full of gum, or worse, in 60 seconds. The fact that they're even trying to provide USB charging makes me worry that they totally don't understand how to protect public hardware from vandalism.

    If somebody taking a fire axe to your touchscreen isn't part of your interface design document, you don't know what you're doing.

    1. Re:Do these guys understand public infrastructure? by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The fact that they're even trying to provide USB charging makes me worry that they totally don't understand how to protect public hardware from vandalism.

      Pretty much same here. A public mesh network has lots of potential.

      Kiosks might work in trendy, well lit, low crime areas. With cameras. And regular patrols.

    2. Re:Do these guys understand public infrastructure? by rudy_wayne · · Score: 3, Insightful

      and NYC cops will descend on you in seconds

      Yeah, right.

      These will be vandalized and destroyed with in a week. They'll be as useful as the payphones they are replacing.

    3. Re:Do these guys understand public infrastructure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Doubtful for one reason: all the kids are clamoring for ways to charge their phones. The demographic that is full of vandals have an interest in keeping these kiosks in perfect working order so they can check twitter, facebook, and play their games.

    4. Re:Do these guys understand public infrastructure? by goodmanj · · Score: 2

      Vandals have an interest in pooping too, but take a look at your average public restroom.

    5. Re:Do these guys understand public infrastructure? by goodmanj · · Score: 2

      So were the phone booths that used to be at these locations fire axe proof as well?

      Pretty much, yeah. One of the most common types was called a "fortress" phone for a reason.

    6. Re:Do these guys understand public infrastructure? by swb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Pay phones were pretty impressive engineering overall when you think about how much abuse they were subject to.

      The locks used on them, especially the coin box versions, were probably one of the most impressive parts of them. They might rank as one of the most secure mass-produced locking mechanisms ever made. I think the coin box had 1.5 million key variations and were extremely pick resistant.

      This link outlines the lock system used and mentions the almost legendary status of them. I seem to remember the urban legend mentioned in the article about one guy who figured out a system for picking the coin box lock. The article doesn't go in to details, but I vaguely remember there was supposedly one guy (maybe an insider who had access to the internals or keying system or something) who got away with it for a while.

      Back in the 1970s or even earlier, there would have been a huge motivation for a successful and simple method of opening pay phone coin boxes. Pay phones were everywhere and if you could gain easy access to opening the coin box you could have probably made a living just going from phone to phone emptying the coin boxes.

      http://www.crypto.com/photos/m...

  4. Re: Expect the Republicans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    The Republicans don't have to kill anyone here to keep us from getting Internet access. Comcast and CenturyLink are doing a great job of that by themselves.

  5. Re: Rem: Expect the Republicans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I've lived in Seattle all of my life, and the fastest connection I've ever had was 160 kbps DSL. I think the Republicans have threatened to kill our mayor if he allowed fast access

  6. Really? by ledow · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "The kiosks are free, public Wi-Fi access points"
    "the full network will eventually include over 7,500 of them." "The displays are expected to bring the city $500 million in revenue over the next 12 years."

    500m / 12 / 7500 = $5555.55 per year per kiosk.

    I'm presuming that's ALL advertising because - why would you pay to charge your phone or browse the web nowadays?

    But, let's presume that's true. If it brings in $5k per year per kiosk, how much is it going to cost to fit out? Gigabit wifi, some sort of Internet connection, two huge screens, some device managing the screens, cost of refit, etc. etc. etc. That's GOT to lose you several YEARS of revenue per kiosk almost immediately, yes? And then... quite where's the profit coming from?

    And that's not talking about vandalism, damage, wear and tear, weatherproofing, maintenance, etc.

  7. Re:All tracked to the gills, I'm sure by arth1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A more appropriate headline would be "NYC Begins Mesh Surveillance Network Rollout."

    Yes, but as long as the masses confuse "free" with "no direct monetary costs", it will be seen as manna from heaven.

    Their own privacy policy states that they require registration to use the service, and then they collect information including (but not limited to) mac address, IP address, browser type and version, operating system, device type, device ids, full URLs and IP addresses and timestamps of everything you connect to.

    And they serve you targeted advertising, and reserve the right to share data with advertisers to "better' serve you targeted ads.

    it would likely be illegal to call this free in either meaning of the word outside the land of the free.

  8. Re:55 inch screens, alive for 12 years? Really? by dissy · · Score: 2

    Damn, they have some good technology if they've design 55 inch screens that for 12 years can (a) work properly even under the most optimistic of conditions, and (b) resist vandalism for 12 years.

    Not really, it's pretty easy to do.

    There are plenty of "LCD Armor" enclosures available to lock an LCD in that still allow viewing and are designed to keep the monitor safe from all but the most extreme forms of abuse.
    ATMs and kiosks at the mall have used them for years with a pretty decent track record.

    Additionally the enclosures have a key lock so they can be opened, thus when the LCD dies it can be replaced with another working one, which they can do for 12 years if they wish.

    You are quite correct about the USB ports being a horrible idea though.
    There is no real way to protect their connector(s), and you just know at least one asshole out there will plug in a USB zapper to fry the power supply itself, not to mention being filled with gum or worse.

    They really should remove the USB charger part of this thing for their own benefit, while at the same time no one else should use the USB charger part of this thing for their own safety.

  9. Here's the nut of it by Rob+Lister · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All of the revenue comes from the two street-level 55-inch advertising displays. None of the revenue is going to come form the wifi/charging kiosks. What's that mean? The wifi/charging aspects will quickly fall into disrepair. There's no money in keeping them working.

    Those advertising displays have to bring in ~$500-$1000/mo to break-even. Will advertisers pay that much for street-level displays? Probably. At least in some neighborhoods.

    That 911 button is going to see a lot of LULZ action.

  10. Re:55 inch screens, alive for 12 years? Really? by The-Ixian · · Score: 2

    If they are going to be around for 12 years, why not pass on the USB charging port and instead use a wireless charging pad.

    Not all devices support wireless charging today, but within 12 years, I am sure every device will use wireless charging. This could even spur faster adoption of wireless charging devices.

    --
    My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.