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Apple Faces $5 Million Lawsuit Over Allegedly Slowing the iPhone 4S With iOS 9 (mashable.com)
An anonymous reader writes: A $5 million lawsuit filed in New York federal court alleges that Apple's iOS 9 mobile operating software significantly slows down the iPhone 4S. According to the complaint: "The update significantly slowed down their iPhones and interfered with the normal usage of the device, leaving Plaintiff with a difficult choice: use a slow and buggy device that disrupts everyday life or spend hundreds of dollars to buy a new phone. Apple explicitly represented to the public that iOS 9 is compatible with and supports the iPhone 4S. And Apple failed to warn iPhone 4S owners that the update may or will interfere with the device's performance."
Would have got the frosty, but my iphooooone is toooo sloooooowelevetyone.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Funny. Both my wife and my ma have a 4s with iOS 9 and they don't seem to have any slowness issues. Then again, they're not running cutting edge apps/services .... an expectation issue perhaps?
...leaves plaintiff with the choice of using a slow piece of shit, buying a new piece of shit, or file a lawsuit over his/her piece of shit.
"Oh crap, not again, we're so screw.... wait! That's *million*...? Search the couch cushion in the lawyers-lounge and pay the ticket..."
My understanding is it depends on the carrier; every time you wake the thing up, for example, to make a call, it goes out and checks for updates. Depending on your carrier, you may not be able to simultaneously have a phone conversation and access data at the same time, and then if you add to this poor carrier coverage in the area you are trying to use the phone, you can get what seem to be lock-ups, but are in realty head of line blocking.
In previous versions of the OS, you could turn off this automatic update behaviour, but this no longer appears to be an option in iOS 9.
Is there any reason other than vendor lockin for them to refuse to allow you to install an older version of ios?
Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
Thing was pretty much crippled. Even if you could get safari to not crash for 5 minutes it was still unusable slow. Should never have been certified to run on that hardware, unless as a blatant attempt to force upgrades to Galaxy tablets..
If Apple loses, that means either a new disclaimer will have to be acknowledged, or that the life cycle of existing product support is shortened significantly. If I was an iPhone 4S owner, I would be rather pleased to even have iOS 9 available. As for the performance degradation, which portion is slow? From what I understand, each build is custom to the platform you're installing it on. So while it may be "iOS 9", the compiled binary image can't be interchangeable between say an iPhone 4s and iPhone 5. Unlike OSX where I can have a universal bootable USB thumb drive installer and throw it on just about any Macbook, iMac, Mac Pro, Mac Mini, etc made within the last few years.
Life is not for the lazy.
Rooting/Hacking and other security issues. They don't want you to be able to downgrade to a "rootable" version, and pushing security updates to prevent this would be a nightmare if they had to support multiple previous versions.
Go find any non-Apple phone that's been supported for 5 major OS releases. I dare you.
Oh, right, this is America. Rather than actually doing work or using common sense, it's easier to sit on the couch and sue someone who tried to do the right thing.
People. They're the worst.
A rare lawsuit I hope succeeds to a degree. I hope this results in Apple updating their OS installation system to allow the final revisions of the last couple major versions, ex IIRC 8.4.1, 7.1.2. It would make life a little simpler for developers.
Note this does not necessarily increase Apple's support burden. Such final versions are often the most recent supported by a particular device and thus will still get very critical security updates. Ex IIRC 7.1.2 is the most recent version for the iPhone 4. I recall getting such a critical update to an obsolete iOS version.
History is repeating itself, it seems. I remember several years ago suffering through iOS 4 on my iPhone 3G (ironically the second generation iPhone). I really doubt they are deliberately slowing the older devices. If you pay attention, each year's SoC is significantly faster than the previous year's. So a four or five year old device will be many times, even orders of magnitude in some cases, slower than the current year's device. It stands to reason that the latest and greatest software will naturally make use of the available horsepower of the latest hardware. Which means there will be relatively degraded performance on older hardware. But if they don't allow an at least somewhat stripped down version of the latest OS to run on a several year old phone, people will sue them instead for "forced obsolescence".
Compatibility with the baseband processor might be an issue since its firmware is usually upgraded at the same time and downgrades can be risky. The baseband is pretty scary really, a huge black box that runs underneath the regular phone OS and has total control over it. Also, it would be re-introducing security problems that were fixed in later iOS versions, which might come with its own liability problems. Plus, it would re-enable old jailbreaks that were fixed in the later versions.
That said, as a 4s user I think this complaint is overblown and is some lawyer looking for a big class action payday. I do turn off the superfluous animations however, so maybe it's partially my fault that I'm not being tremendously inconvenienced. I guess I'm mostly hoping that Apple doesn't stop supporting older versions of the iPhone. I have an original model iPhone as well and most apps on the app store no longer work, even if they aren't big 3D extravaganzas. They're simply compiled against a version of iOS that is too new for that old phone. Pretty annoying when a simple to-do list app won't even work because your phone is too old.
I read the internet for the articles.
This is fairly typical of Apple. Although new versions of iOS support older phones, you don't want to run any version of iOS on a phone older than two years from the time it was released. Then you're left with the dilemma of upgrading iOS and likely taking a substantial performance hit or running the old version and leaving yourself open to unpatched vulnerabilities as well as losing the ability to install certain apps as all of the developers start releasing new versions of their apps that only support the new version of iOS (and the older versions of the app are removed from the App Store).
$50,000 per class member because they feel like they were forced to make a what, $200 upgrade at this point to a 5 series?
Yes: support. As a developer, large or small, the fewer targets you have to support the better. That goes for bug/security fixes and any kind of tech support. Ideally everyone is running the latest and greatest version of your software so you can make certain assumptions. As with most things companies do, it's about money. In this case, minimizing the amount of money they have to spend training support staff and allocating developers to deal with older versions of software instead of things that will help make the new shiny look more attractive.
"Choice"
It is incompatible with Apple's religion.
Apple already updates obsolete versions of iOS when there is a critical security problem. Specifically when that version is the most recent that some particular device can run. I recall getting such an update on an old device I keep for development purposes. Similar story for Mac OS X.
Is anyone here actually shocked Apple does this? This is the downside to locked in vendors, you give up control and variety.
Plus, it would re-enable old jailbreaks that were fixed in the later versions.
Short version, "We are going to make things difficult because we do not want you to have root on your own computer." Well fuck that! The easily rooted Chinese Android looks better every day!
The problem is that Apple does no allow you to un-fuck your phone when you find out the update is unusable.
Imagine if someone upgraded your car to get better mileage, but shrunk the tank so you can only go a hundred miles without refueling. Then refused to undo the upgrade. Kinda stops feeling like a benefit, or even like any attempt to do the right thing.
I've stopped being grateful for Android updates. Anything more than a year after the phone's release just seems to make my Android worse, too.
There's a third choice: Don't get sucked into buying the latest iCrap. If it's too expensive, then get something cheaper. Claiming that your status symbol is necessary is hogwash.
I have been on the beta channel for a while now but 9.x anything is fine on my end. I don't use it for much but skype and hangouts which are fairly processor intensive it would seem. No laggy UI here.
If you are on a 4s its pretty much time for a new one anyway. I work from home so I frankly don't need to upgrade mine.
I had the same issue with iOS 4 (I think) and my iPhone 3GS. Apple makes new OSes "compatible" with barely-compatible devices they no longer want to support, and prevents downgrading after, so that you'll buy a new phone when your performance tanks. It's despicable and I'm glad to see they're finally being taken to task for it.
Just expanding the apocrypha.
The article says "more than 100 members" say there are 200 to be generous. They are claiming >= $2500 in damages per? Not even a new iPhone is that expensive.
Rooting/Hacking and other security issues. They don't want you to be able to downgrade to a "rootable" version, and pushing security updates to prevent this would be a nightmare if they had to support multiple previous versions.
Well, they could just use the exact same updating system that they have on OS X which supports branched updates. There's absolutely nothing unusual or particularly hard about supporting multiple versions of an operating system.
I never said they had to support it I just want them to not block it however I still run ios 5.0.1 due to never bothering to update.
About a year ago apple changed something on their end that enabled you to download the last compatible version of an app. That really helped. Surprisingly cydia hasn't figured out how to do that yet.
Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
Iirc both ios 6.1.5 and 6.1.6 were out of band security updates after ios 7 had already been released.
Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
Erm...you used to be able to back up your entire phone (IOS included) and, if the update fails, you can roll it back to the older version.
Of course, if you didn't plan ahead then you'd be fucked, but that's not Apple's fault.
Has this changed?
I have personally been on the receiving end of the abuse Apple doles out to its business "partners" on a regular basis so I hate them with the burning passion of a thousand suns, but this is nothing more than a frivolous lawsuit that should be thrown out with prejudice.
As a very part-time developer, I understand that entropy rules all. For all the lamenting about how bloated programs or operating systems have become, people continue to request more and more features. If someone ever devises a way to infinitely expand a program while keeping hardware requirements static, I'm sure they will have people beating down their door to give them big bags of money to learn that secret. Until then, new features means more CPU cycles and RAM is required. All the wishful thinking and/or harsh language in the world isn't going to magically turn the CPU from the 4S into the CPU in the 6. So all those new features we collectively demand means that sooner or later the older models will have to be left behind because they can't keep up and we really have no one to blame but ourselves because who here would buy an iPhone 7 if it was EXACTLY the same as the iPhone 6, but it just cost more?
This lawsuit should be thrown out with prejudice. If I were the judge whose docket it landed on (assuming I was a judge) I'd ask the state bar to look into the actions of this lawyer. Any first year law student would likely be able to tell within 30 seconds that the plaintiffs would have zero chance of success, yet they had no apparent problems taking money from someone to file this worthless lawsuit. IMO, this sort of lawyer is even lower than the ambulance chaser type.
then backup before you update - if update sucks, then restore backup. not rocket science folks.
I just deal with ipods and ipads so I have no experience with basebands but I feel not being able to go back to a working version is a bigger liability than any potential security risk.
example super important electronic flight bag app works on ios 5.0.1 after upgrading to ios 5.1.1 it is found that obscure important function c does not work on the new ios version.
Since you can't switch out to an old ios version you now have a expensive paperweight until apple or the app developer fixes compatibility.
Lot safer to just not upgrade and still have a working app & device.
This year I discovered the latest version of gparted could no longer properly resize a fat32 partition. Lucky me I just so happened to have a cd with a 4 year old copy that worked without issue. N.I.N.A.B: Newer Is Not Always Better.
Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
I recommend you avoid RCA and PROSCAN tablets (although nabis are probably a waste of time too). Otherwise the rest of them are all decent that i've seen.
Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
Then again, iOS 7 has never received an update for a flaw in pdf handling that enables arbitrary code execution from Safari, which means every iPhone 4 is vulnerable.
> The baseband is pretty scary really, a huge black box that runs underneath the regular phone OS and has total
> control over it.
Not at all scary for Apple though, right, as it's their code and therefore fully under their control?
Seriously, do the math. Then ask yourself how much you would care if someone filed a lawsuit against you for 50 cents.
Apple is not able to speed up your CPU with a software upgrade. I don't remember reading my warranty and Apple guaranteeing speed for the next 5 years. Maybe I missed that clause.
Jokes aside, even after all these years, i don't think people think of Android phones and iPhones as computers that happen to make phone calls. You have a hybrid microkernel/UNIX machine perpetually exposed to everyone on the Internet. You need to update. You need to keep it secure. Maybe users would like iOS 7 and receive security updates forever, but what about when their apps get rooted because they haven't been updated?
There really isn't a way to have Apple win here.
Remember this is the company that got sued because they gave everybody (an admittedly bad) free album. Having deep pockets sucks some times.
Hell, my iPhone 6+ came with iOS 8, and it’s been getting slower and slower, and I think iOS 9 is part of the problem. Basically, iOS is just bloated and slow?
No. Apple is atheist. They provide a free devkit (Xcode) that allows you to create the software you want for any Apple device.
Apple's "walled garden" is remarkably lowly fenced and Apple provides a four lane highway right into the heart of it. So why do you say such silliness? If you lack the ability to code or the money to hire someone else to code then it gets a bit hard. I am quite happy with that. It keeps out the dross. Is that where you see yourself?
Ahahaha you must be an android user. That doesn't work on ios devices you can only restore to the latest version. Even having SHSH blobs saved doesn't help nowadays. "no method for downgrading to modern firmware has surfaced in years, but itâ(TM)s still a good idea to save your blobs just in case." - Jeff Benjamin, Jul 19, 2015
Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
Apple's "walled garden" is remarkably lowly fenced and Apple provides a four lane highway right into the heart of it.
Unless you want to make an app that wouldn't be approved by the app store, or want to limit distribution. In those cases you're screwed.
It's clear that freedom is better than non-freedom. That's almost a non-argument.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
They must employ developers from suckless.org to help them remove the bloat from their software... Apple are into minimalism right? they will be left with a phone that never needs to be replaced and has one app (the phone app). So often i hear about iPhone users who only want a phone and texting, so this seems fitting.
iOS 8 and up were meant for bigger resolution screens.
This one will get settled for a few new iPhones and attorney's fees.
Apple will give zero fucks about the money, but they won;t want to set a precedent either.
It's not unusable. It's a little slower. That's how it works when new features are added. Features take memory and CPU time. Apple could probably make a new OS that felt faster than the previous one if they stripped out features instead of adding them, but most people wouldn't like that, either.
Apple never promised a specific number of major OS upgrades for the 4s. They also never promised that new OSes would be as fast or faster than previous OSes. But some moron thinks he's entitled to those things. Maybe I should sue Nintendo because they have't provided free upgrades for my NES to support HDMI and 1080p video.
The only thing that can possibly come out of this idiotic lawsuit if Apple loses is Apple will stop supporting new OSes for old phones sooner. So you could have a nice, fast 4s that was stuck on a iOS 6. That would be better, right? Of course not.
My iPad has turned into a slow as slug after IOS upgrades. Even using Safari over WiFi seems like swimming through syrup. (Yes, the WiFi tests fine with other devices.)
iOS 5 forevah!
I am sorry but you are incorrect. When I install my own app on my own phone I do not even need to be online (Yes, I should check this) let alone go through the Apple store (I don't need to check that).
If I want someone else to have my app then I circulate the source not the .app.
Hell, if you install a binary, how is that in concert with "open source" modalities anyway?
I can make an app that the store would not approve easy as pie. I can install it on my iPhone/iPad anytime I want. I can send the source code to anyone else and they can compile and install it in their devices.
It does mean I need something running OSX to create the IOS apps but that is the only limitation I can see. Sure Apple is a "walled garden" but the main gate (with escalators) is always wide open.
If you have a developer license, you can install anything you want and you can limit distribution. Companies/private developers can distribute apps without the App Store all day long, and have been able to for years.
SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
You can downgrade for about a week after the new OS is released. That's about the amount t of time Apple signs the previous and current iOS versions.
SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
I can make an app that the store would not approve easy as pie. I can install it on my iPhone/iPad anytime I want. I can send the source code to anyone else and they can compile and install it in their devices.
Yes.....as long as they keep up on their developer subscription.
Keep pretending you own your device. When Apple can remove anything they want, you don't own it.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
If you have a developer license, you can install anything you want and you can limit distribution.
Clearly you have a different problem in that case, you can't distribute it to anyone you want. You know this.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Spend more money on something you don't really need. Well done.
Developer subscription? Sorry neither have nor need one.
And you keep pretending you own your own life. It does not work that way anymore. I do not even believe that I "own" my devices now. The last machine I knew I owned was an NEC APC H03. I know I "owned" that because when I purchased it and it arrived they wanted to charge me extra for a technical manual. All I wanted was the details of the system calls. They wanted me to pay and I did not want to. I complained to ACCC (Now https://www.accc.gov.au/consum...). Next think I knew there was a man at my door, begging me to sign an NDA but carefully telling me I do not have to, with a 3x3x4 ft box that contained everything down to chip mask for the proprietary chips. Who knew it was illegal to sell a programmable device in this country without providing the full specifications? That was 1984 and this is now. Nowadays you might just as well assume that you are owned before you open the box.
You are making a silly assumption if you think I trust anyone. You are making an even bigger one if you think you can do something about it.
Amusing that the only computer I "knew" I owned was purchased in 1984.
I don't remember that ever being a thing.
I know when my boss switched iPhones (same model) a year or two, his old phone has a newer version of iOS than the new phone and it wouldn't let me restore the backup onto the new phone until it was updated so no, it's not backing up the OS.
Excuse me, but have you never heard the term open source?
You can distribute it as far and wide as you want as open source. Why the fuck would I want or trust your binary anyway?
You know this. Stop digging your hole deeper phantom five.
Obviously you've never driven an electric car. Your "tank is shrunk" (total capacity to charge diminishes) over the years of owning the car. That is why I will not own an electric car for some time. (Until people realize this and price older cars reasonably to account for this. That means it should have a MUCH greater depreciation curve than normal gas cars.)
If you have a jailbroken iPhone 4S (and only the 4S), you can downgrade it to iOS 6.1.3 through a glitch in Apple's upgrade system. I'm waiting for a jailbreak for 9.2 so I can do exactly that.
The method is described in detail here, it's a bit involved but it might help some technically minded people restore some life back into their perfectly capable devices.
One of the big reasons why I stick to iOS devices is precisely that I can count on them to be supported for many years. The iPad 2, launched on 11.03.2011 can run the latest OS released just a few months ago. Good luck getting that kind of support lengh with an Android device. If this lawsuit results in Apple just starting to cut off support earlier, I am going to rage.
Like how I'm running F.lux on my non-jailbroken iPhone, side loaded via x-code? Clearly I can.
SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
Keep pretending you own your device.
There are plenty of good arguments you can make against Apple's "walled garden" approach. I simply don't believe that "you don't own it" is one of them.
"Ownership" of a thing (like a phone) means chattel rights to the property. It does NOT mean "I can do anything I want to it."
I own my car, but I am not allowed by the manufacturer or US law to disable the air bags or roll back the odometer. I own my house and surrounding property, but am not allowed to use my land to grow opium poppies in it and harvest them. (I'm in Washington, so I could grow pot in it, but that's a different issue...) I own a semi-automatic pistol, but am not allowed by the manufacturer or law to convert it to fully automatic. I currently own a number of bottles of nice wine and aged scotch, but I am not allowed by law to charge people money to come to my house and drink them. None of these things means that I don't "own" these objects.
Furthermore, when it comes to most iOS or major-vendor Android devices, you CAN root them. It may be complicated and it will certainly void your warranty and deny you the right to OEM/carrier customer support, but otherwise knock yourself out. Just like if you try hard enough you will find ways to disable your airbags, file your pistol's firing pin, or get opium poppy seeds.
A walled garden is a walled garden. You buys your ticket, you takes the ride. That's what you signed up for when you bought it... or didn't want that, so you didn't buy it. But either way, it doesn't impact "ownership" in a legal sense at all.
"95% of all Slashdot
Flux for iOS is gone. Apple threatened legal action.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Neither they nor I see a shit sandwich.
When business planning for a new system you try and evaluate and account for business change and growth. How much CPU, how much RAM, Storage etc. (and then double it if I can get approval). Now at home I need to worry about other things, and I can 'budget' for a tighter system. But phone usage is nothing, nothing like this. New phone needs are not driven by the nature of the phone but by the apps.
My old iPhone 3GS is still good enough as a phone but will not handle modern webpages. That is not even app driven but data driven. There is no way you can predict what capacity you need in your phone because the apps keep changing and then the data the apps use changes. So if you want to play with the best of new apps and the best of new websites then it is only sane to have to expect to upgrade more frequently.
If you don't want to upgrade that often, then restrict your use or accept loss of speed.
Most people do a bit of both and upgrade for a tech point (like fingerprint). I have upgraded for, Capacity, fingerprint and screen size.
Thing is as much as people might see me as a 'fanboy' I see the androids around me replace their phones far more often and have far more trouble with them. They seem to spend more than I do.
I'm tired of this nonsense. Let's see- I'm writing this on a mid 2010 macbook. And recently upgraded to the new iPhone from a 4 - because of feautures, and more honestly- the larger size (I'm getting old and even the 6 is a struggle at times...yes, glasses to the top of my head and phone near my nose). But I digress...
We should ALL be smart enough to know by now that whether it's our phone, laptop, desktop, etc.... the updates outpace the hardware. And we should all know by now- if you have old hardware- don't bloody update. Or wait a few weeks- and check the forums to see if it is worth it on your system. This is not an apple issue- it's a technology issue. And a consumer issue- or maybe more to the point- idiots wanting to have the latest and greatest while ignoring the fact their hardware is old.
But hey, I guess people suing for their own ignorance keeps the lagal system humming...
Fine, since you are the type of person who likes to argue about definitions of words, and not the underlying meaning, how is this:
With iOS, you don't control the phone. You can try to jailbreak it, but Apple will do everything they can to stop you.
Does that phrasing suit your sensibilities, or would you prefer to say it a different way?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
And you keep pretending you own your own life. It does not work that way anymore
lol and you say my arguments are bad.
Developer subscription? Sorry neither have nor need one.
So then, how are you sideloading apps on your iPhone without a developer subscription? Jailbreak? Using someone else's certificate?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
It was pulled because it was a closed binary. If they gave the source code and let you compile it, it would have been fine. I downloaded a copy before it was pulled.
There are open alternatives that do the same thing and are still available.
SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
No one is forcing you to upgrade your 4 year old phone. Give it a rest. Money gabbing.
Semantics. I do not really care what words are used. A subscription is paying a regular fee for the regular delivery of a service. Neither happens.
So they're both mostly contemporaneous devices (with the iPad 2 6 months older but iPhone 4s going a year longer), but iOS 9 runs fine on my old iPad2. It's not going to break any speed records, but it's certainly a) not unusable and b) not worth suing someone over. Boot times suck, but that's about it.
How do they let you load it without a developer subscription?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
You completely avoided answering my question lol
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Biggest piece of shit I've ever seen and it ruined my laptop.
This is part of the planned obsolescence of "smart" phones in general and iPhones in particular. Greedy phone makers want to keep their extremely insanely high profits up, so they have to find ways to get people to replace their phone every year. This is why updates for most phones stop after a year, even though phones could work for 4-5 years or more with reasonable care taken of them. Almost all "smart" phones are vastly overpriced to begin with, especially the iPhones.
The whole thing is silly, yet many sheeple just keep paying for a vastly overpriced new phone every year just because_______.
You say that like it is a bad thing.
Apple does not restrict what I do to my machine. I do not need to 'root' it. If it does get rooted then I am very happy if Apple fixes it for me. Apple allows me in the front door. I am quite happy that it closes and locks the back door. Apple provides quite an effective condom.
Because the "question" is "not even wrong". Apple provides.
All that is left is for Microsoft to copy Apple's "I'm a Mac" ads for Windows Phone vs iPhone and the circle will be complete.
You can make a free developer account to load on own device. You can't distribute or submit to the App Store.
SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
Well, iphones have less memory than Android devices at the same price point. iPhone 6 has 1GB memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... Even the Zuk Z1, which is 2-3 times cheaper, has 3GB ram... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
So, it's more like, ios somehow manages to run things efficiently, using less memory than its android counterparts. But it doesnt take much to push ios outside the envelope of reasonable performance, given the limited available memory of iphone devices.
I was a happy iPhone4s owner, and the time to do a simple contact lookup went from a second or two to 30 seconds or more. Many other features became flaky. The service "News" would regularly crash upon opening and would require a few restarts to behave. Trying to see that someone had called or worse yet to listen to the message would take a minute or more. It sucked badly. Fortunately for Apple, I bought a brand new 6s on Christmas and all those problems went away... Strange?
So it's basically because they don't want you to have control over their phone. No choice to risk using an old version, and definitely no opportunity to jailbreak.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
You forgot to mention the roadblock where they search your car for contraband on the way in. No porn, no running arbitrary code, no apps that provide similar functionality to their own etc. Then when you get in you find you are a second class citizen, not allowed to access the best bits like the fast HTML engine. And if you do manage to produce something good Apple will just clone it and then ban your version as being too similar to theirs.
Sounds great.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Lol, "easily rooted" is a negative. If you can root it someone else can. The whole point of an iPhone is that you don't need root to install you own software. You are forced to compile it yourself which is sort of sane. If you are an open source person there is very little that you cannot make your iPhone or iPad do, provided you have a Mac with the development environment installed.
If you had the source code, why not?
It is open source peoples. There is no such thing as an open binary
If you have an appleID you have that "subscription".
Thank you. I think you and are the only two people in the world who know this.
Yet GWX refuses to upgrade a PC with an nForce chipset to Windows 10, putting blame on NVIDIA for not making it compatible.
What and where is this paranoia inspire roadblock? Do you think that Apple routinely checks my files? Consider; terrorism, childporn, any porn, drug comments and use. Logs. Err, you cannot rationally believe that Apple is watching as I type this.
"No porn, no running arbitrary code, no apps that provide similar functionality to their own etc". In the app store. My machine is my own and I can put what I want on it. Apple could change this but I can not see it happening. I do not think that that level of monitoring of so many machines would be readily possible. And no country in the world would allow it to be legal (although that is exactly what they want themselves - see North Korea's Linux).
Yes it is great. Open source at its finest. If you want to do closed source and use Mr. MacRandom's binaries be my guest.
I think that changed as of Xcode 7. If you have an app's source code and a sufficiently recent Mac, you can install it on your iProduct without a paid-up developer license.
Ever since I got it when it came out in 2011, the GPS was buggy, the updates were few and far between (not to mention carrier delay), and each updated slowed down my phone considerably, even with CyanogenMod. I had to hack the shit out of it and optimize it to keep it churning up until mid-2015. Then, I finally switched over to iPhone 5S and I finally understood what they meant by something that "just works." I was tired of spending hours on trivial issue that would become obsolete in a few iterations.
But the point of this is: don't get too comfortable giving your loyalty to any one company.
But an iPhone still costs $500 more than an equivalent Android phone because instead of using your existing Windows PC or your existing Linux PC, you have to buy a $500 Mac mini to compile and load apps.
Really? That's pretty cool then.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I will be surprised if the judge doesn't toss the lawsuit out with prejudice almost immediately. It is stated pretty squarely in the EULA on iOS that Apple isn't responsible for what updates do to a device. Don't forget, the EULA also states that the case goes to arbitration, and one waives their right to a trial. As previous courts have shown, this does hold firm as nationwide law.
I'm amazed this is even a trial, this is first semester law school stuff dealing with basic contracts and EULAs are definitely contracts in the eyes of the law. This sucks, but the law is the law in this case.
Crying? I am very happy with mine. I just bought an iPad Pro. Cost me $AU 1699 and $AU 100+ for the pencil. Some of the best money I ever spent. It replaces a Cintiq, DVD player, laptop, most of my phone and stereo (Way! no headphones anymore!). Try adding up those prices. Besides it has already paid for itself by people coming up to me and want me to email a copy of sketches that I have made or they ask me to make.
Calling me an iPhag is a little inappropriate but iHag would be accurate, so I will assume that the 'p' is silent. I think I just took the 'pee' out of you iBaby.
I was guessing that the applications in the storage could be read an executed direct from storage. Anyone know about this?
..temporarily.
press and hold power button until the swipe to turn off prompt appears, and then cancel. that will kill off what i call 'the slowdown loop' that is going on.
phone will work great for a few minutes, then it kicks back in.
My phone is almost useless, it shouldn't take 15-30 seconds to respond to the home button. i even wiped the phone and it became useless almost immediately.
Apple does not restrict what I do to my machine. I do not need to 'root' it. If it does get rooted then I am very happy if Apple fixes it for me.
Slaves are always happy until they want to do something their master doesn't let them.
The Eloi were happy until the Morlocks came out.
You like the iPhone and Apple's garden for now.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Still at it? I saw it took someone else to correct you, but you were neither courteous nor man enough to apologise. Instead you still try to target me, to dry to make me feel bad. Unfortunately that requires intelligence you fail to display (Probably can't).
I am no slave, not even to my emotions. So, go dance in your fantasy garden. I am a maker, a Morlock. Yes, I like Apple's walled garden as it keeps others out. For the same reason I insist on a condom.
I know your views are not based on rationality but religion. I know you are a child who cannot accept that their arguments and impressions have been counterfactual. You keep demonstrating this.
So let me make this clear, you were wrong, you were proven wrong (by multiple people) and you remain wrong. And all you have left is an attempt to stir me up emotionally, which just makes me laugh enough to respond. That is the limit of your effectiveness. Would you explain to me how you can appear to be so pathetic? I suggest you try to gain some flexibility.
When you attack the man and not the ball you need to be sure that you can survive the return of service. You failed as malice and hate often do.
With iOS, you don't control the phone. You can try to jailbreak it, but Apple will do everything they can to stop you.
From my perspective, I certainly do control my phone. I control what apps and content I use; I control how and with whom I interact using my phone; I have never been prevented from doing anything with my phone that I wanted to (other than perhaps getting free worldwide data, using it as Doctor Who-style Psychic Paper, and finding a software upgrade to turn it into an Espresso machine).
What I want to do with my phone just doesn't happen to include jailbreaking it or using alternative app stores. I just don't get the value of doing either of those things, given how I use my phone. Not trying to be a troll, but please can you tell me what the advantages of those things would be for someone like me who is 1.) happy with the functionality that iOS provides, and 2.) happy with the choice of apps I have already (which, BTW, includes non-public, corporate apps that I can choose to install through my employer's MDM/MAM system)? Other than "zOMG SHEEPLE STALLMAN FREEDOMZ!!!!!!?"
I'm not being pedantic and trying to argue over definitions rather than their underlying meanings, as you suggest. However, hopefully you can understand my point that to say a thing with which you are not permitted to do anything you like is not "owned" by you is at best an overly dramatic choice of words since it connotes something far more meaningful.
For my personal purposes - which I understood when I purchased an Apple product - there is nothing that I would like to do with it which I cannot. If you want to install any app from any source any time, or roll your own phone OS, go do it! Have fun! As many on Slashdot go to great lengths to point out, Android is there for you if you want to do that. If you don't, and happen to prefer the iOS UI/app store catalog, why is this a problem?
"95% of all Slashdot
So then, how are you sideloading apps on your iPhone without a developer subscription
For the last few releases, XCode has been able to load apps onto an iOS device. You can install apps that you wrote yourself, or you can install any open source apps that you download. You only need the paid subscription to be able to submit apps to the Apple App Store. You do need a Mac to be able to do it, as XCode doesn't run on any other OS.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Maybe Apple will stop making it almost impossible to get an earlier version of ios. Probably not though!
I don't think you should be seeing much slowdown on a 6+ with 9. If your phone is nearly full, try to back down the storage (this shouldn't speed it up, but I have seen it do so twice for me- I think it is aggressive with swap or something). You may also consider backing it up and restoring it. The only slowdown I noticed on 9 was sometimes switching apps can take a bit of time to get the GUI to respond to the request- not every time or anything.
It depends on how easy it is to root. To me, there are two sensible ways to root a phone:
1)- In this way, you'd start with root. As part of configuration you'd be putting in a root password. This way would work best for an open phone model, or a phone based on general computing as a model.
2)- In this way, you'd have a locked down system, and have an option to root it with a procedure done from a PC, but only one that you have elected to trust in some fashion.
3)- A physical key is required, that ships with the phone and is marked as being for if you are some crazy phone hacker guy.
A method that just randomly can be popped up from inside settings, or much worse, from some app, means that naive users are vulnerable. The user either needs to understand what a root password is, or needs to take some external action that would be harder than trivial to social engineer a naive user into fucking up.
The number of shenanigans that can happen to a rooted Android are similar to the kind of shit that a Windows PC can get into- hard as crap to detect or undo. This isn't a slam at them by any means, but it is interesting to see how safe iphones almost always are- the walled garden is limiting, but for non power users the existence of the wall is often a benefit.
Option 2 is what Apple chose. From my iMac I can compile and install pretty much anything if I have the source.
Yes, I have an iPhone 6 and with iOS 9 I'm noticing not all user inputs being immediately responded to or even accepted.
My work got the brilliant idea that everyone needed iphones, and gave me a 5S. After the IOS9 update, the phone would lose all sound every 4-8 hours. All I would get is a buzzing sound, headphones, bluetooth, speakers, doesn't matter. Nothing but a hard reset would fix it. I tried multiple things, the Apple store tried, no luck. Work sends me a 5, it managed to keep sound, but the display would go blank, again requiring a hard reset. They then send me a 6, guess what it also lose sound, and requires a hard reset. Tired of a phone that did half of what my Nexus did, I gave up and ordered my own Nexus 5X, and just pulled the SIM card out of the 6.
Never mind other IOS9 bugs, like not being able to connect to wireless networks with a hidden SSID.
Funny part was I was starting to think it was just something I was doing, until two of my other co-workers started complaining about the same thing.....
As fast as we think SSDs are, they’re still way slower than DRAM. Also, no system is architected with the ability to map disk blocks to address space transparently. Virtual memory systems do map disk blocks to virtual memory addresses, but via the OS where the disk block is “cached” in DRAM.
At least Apple allow you to make the upgrade. Buy an Android phone and you're toast after 2 years, with no update possibilities.
Do you mean on page 256 of the EULA where it says in clear terms "that Apple is not responsible for your actions" or do you mean the nagging iTunes messages where Apple tells you for all eternity thta "a new iOS version is available" and that you should really upgrade like now, or do it later at your choosing (we will nag again), at least download the image so you're ready to go when we ask you next time?
Apple faced similar accusations in 2011 from plaintiffs in a class action complaint who claimed iOS 4 turned their iPhone 3G into "iBricks." The case was tossed a year later, though the topic of planned obsolescence continues to crop up with nearly every significant Apple release.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
That's good to know, thanks.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I have never been prevented from doing anything with my phone that I wanted to
That's the key, right? Everyone feels free until the want to do something they can't. This is true even for people in the worst dictatorships.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Yes, I like Apple's walled garden as it keeps others out. For the same reason I insist on a condom.
Then you're also a fool. Apple's walled garden doesn't actually keep people safe, any more than TSA.
So let me make this clear, you were wrong,
You're so very clear.
You failed as malice and hate often do.
Hate and malice, eh?
Other people have pointed out that it is now possible to sideload apps with the latest version of XCode without paying. That's a good step forward, but there are still things Apple prevents you from doing on iOS. The illusion of freedom is still there though, if you never want to do those things (as I pointed out in my previous post, people feel free until they want to do something they can't).
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
The study emphasizes that "the main update bottleneck lies with manufacturers rather than Google, operators, or users."
Yup. The problem is the uninstallable crapware (custom versions) manufactures put on Android phones. With Windows (almost all of) the manufacture-installed crapware can be uninstalled and undelayed updates/patches come direct from MS. (Of course, it takes a day to decrapify a new computer, and you may not want the "updates"...) To decrapify Android the only option is to buy a Nexus and get undelayed Android updates.
It's not so much carrier but carrier tech. CDMA doesn't allow calls and data at the same time. GSM does.
Both CDMA and GSM allow calls and data at the same time. The difference is that GSM allows you to use one antenna for both and Apple code to dedicate all antennas to maximizing signal instead of allowing some antennas to be used for data while other antennas are used for calls.
Bottom line is that the restriction is an Apple design decision. HTC has previously released phones that support simultaneous data and calls (without VoLTE) on Verizon.
This has been a problem since iOS 7. The SHSH signing window for iOS 6 was closed only three days after iOS 7 was released, making users who installed 7 unable to install 6 again.
You Americans are crazy. For any fart you go to court. Do you not see that the only ones who make profits are the lawyers?
So it makes sense that Apple would design today's software to take advantage of today's hardware speeds.
Yet "today's hardware" should include all hardware in use today, not just hardware manufactured today. So why not design an operating system for today's new hardware and today's previous-generation hardware still in use, other than as an underhanded way of selling more of today's new hardware and thereby creating more e-waste?
Both my Husband and I have suffered with Apple's last Two forced upgrades and the consciences there of: We like our phones and up until recently they have served our daily cell phone needs. We don't need nor want to upgrade to a newer more expensive phone but it seemed that Apple was treating its customers like second class citizens for not upgrading and spending more money! I hope the court finds their upgrade practices as the self serving and compensate the Apple 4S owners!!
You keep trying to "beat" me and if you cannot to that then to insult me. As for being a fool, you are the one who keeps with the foolish remarks. You might be a fool to rely on a condom but you are not a fool to use one.
Yes, others pointed out your were wrong after you spent many posts arguing about it and attacking me. You didn't check. You had to be corrected by others and you are still trying to tell me I am wrong. Persistence will not win an incorrect argument.
Wether you like it or not, Apple is currently open source. Demonstrated, proven, asserted in documentation and by others here who know. Which you finally were forced to accept.
I am not "most people" and you are not "most people". Pretty much all freedom is an illusion. I am not free and neither are you. However, I will not be a slave to anyone and trying to insult me by calling me one or telling me I am not free. You lost an argument (that you created) on a technical point. You stand corrected. All else is mental masturbation.
Not arguing here, just pondering
The machine I am using now has an 'SSD'. But it is (apparently) not accessed through the normal disk subsystem and cannot be replaced by an SSD that does. The physical memory is on the main logic board, same as the machines RAM. The machine identifies it as "Flash Storage". If anyone knows exactly how this works I would be interested in their comment.
When graphics went from CRT to digital displays we were left with software artefacts where a whole lot of processing for the CRT function was left in the graphic cards and decoding for this added to the circuitry in digital monitors. As far as I know this artefact layer still exists today and we pay a price for that backwards hardware and software compatibility. An expensive compatibly that we no longer require but we are stuck with.
Are our storage changes and philosophies creating the same sort of no longer necessary artifacts? A sixty-four bit word can hold the dresses of 1.85x10 raised to the nineteenth power of sixty-four bit words. Do we need the notion of "disk blocks" any more. Copying from an SSD to DRAM and then reading it again is stupid for a text segment (or re-entrant code would be suspect), as you have read from SSD, write to DRAM, read from DRAM and you do it once only. Perhaps we are starting to need a new paradigm for better efficiency? Maybe we should look at moving from fixed block sizes to a directly addressable paradigm?
I have been out of this for many years. If I am being silly here, please update me.
Yes but that has not changed since the iPhone 4. Particularly the top right hand of the screen (whichever way you are holding it - so it is not the hardware) response can be slow or totally ignored. It is more noticeable on iPads than on iPhones though.
Yah think that the company who supplied them might have something to do with it? Or that your company added something to them or had something added to them? No, your solution was to frustrate your employer and expose their internal network. Did someone in the company give you permission to remount the SIM? Do they even know? Most places I have worked that would be a fireable offence. In some juristictions it would be criminal.
Yes, cutting edge PCIe-based SSDs do not look like SATA devices. They look more like a NIC or GPU or other PCIe peripheral in that there is some physical address space mapped to the device. We access that address space to initiate data transfers between DRAM and the SSD storage, all of which is done via DMA.
Your idea basically requires that we map the whole disk to physical address space. When you mmap a file, it kinda emulates what you're describing, albeit through software. Now, we could in fact do what you're describing. But keep in mind that although 64 bits seems to be very large, we want to future-proof secondary storage to support much larger address spaces still, like using 128-bit addressing. Moreover, because of the way disks are organized, we want to access them in BLOCKS, not individual words. If you were to map the disk to physical memory so that you could just directly reference bytes on disk, performance would suck. Read performance would suck because it would be (likely) uncached and require PIO accesses over PCIe. DMA is much faster because it's a bulk operation and can be done in parallel to computation. PIO results in massive waste of CPU cycles while the processor stalls waiting on the very long latency to access the peripheral, and it's also tied up during that time rather than available for other useful computation. For writes, performance would also suffer, because SSDs are block-oriented, requiring buffering and read-modify-write operations on the underlying storage. This would also massively increase wear on flash cells.
So, in short, mapping anything like current secondary storage to physical memory is a bad idea. That being said, work on STT-RAM and other newer RAM technologies has the promise to be faster than DRAM and lower power than DRAM while also being non-volatile. In that case, if we integrated, say, a first level of secondary storage near the CPU, your idea could really work well.
You are telling me that OSX supports an android development environment?
Yes. (Source: SDK download page via Google android studio os x.) However, the stated system requirements include a display at least 1280x800, which in theory rules out the cheap 1366x768 monitor you may have connected to a Mac mini.
I "went Apple" from BSD when Apple went Darwin so I have been in the Apple ecosystem for a while.
Darwin's userland is based on that of FreeBSD. So you went from *BSD to *BSD. (Neither of which, incidentally, is dying.)
By the way, I appreciate both your politeness and candor. Respect.
Thank you. And I appreciate your openness to a mentality other than the "you'll need to switch to the desktop ecosystem that the market has chosen for you; them's the breaks" or "I didn't need to switch ecosystems because I chose a Mac in the first place; sucks to be you" mentality that some other Slashdot users routinely express.
Firstly, Thank you for your considered reply.
I am aware of some of what you wrote and I do not have an "idea" per se, only that maybe we should be looking for a new paradigm. That paradigm change need not be block orientated but if it were not so it would require a complete resign of just about all IO hardware and software. It is a thought that makes me shudder but it might become a desirable thing somewhere down the track. Some speculative and preparative contemplation as to how this might be done could we worthwhile - besides entertaining and educational.
I think with this "flash drive" Apple may have done something like you suggest in your third paragraph. From powered down to "as I was last working" takes seconds, not minutes. I used to hate a shutdown, now I don't. I have a friend with a similar machine but an OEM SSD drive. It is fast but still takes twice as long to boot. But both are vastly faster than a spinning disk.
Lastly, thank you for your time.
AFAIK, since roughly WWDC 2015. This is a brand new policy change.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
$subject.
You keep trying to "beat" me and if you cannot to that then to insult me
I have no desire to beat you.
Wether you like it or not, Apple is currently open source.
You don't know what open source means. It has nothing to do with whether you can side-load your own apps. A walled garden (or not a walled garden) is not the same thing as closed/open source. Now I can see that you have not done much programming (or at least don't know the difference between open and closed source).
"Open source" has to do with whether you can see the source code. Some parts of iOS source code are open, which is great (mainly the parts taken from Mach and BSD), because you can see them and download them from Apple's website. Other parts are closed, meaning you can't even look at them.
In this thread we've been talking about who controls the device (or who owns it): as long as Apple is the one with root, and not you, then Apple controls the device.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Then stop trying to do so.
I don't know what "open source" means? "I haven't done much programming"? As for most of your insults they are more likely to apply to you than me.
You demonstrate clear lapses in understanding the matter. There is a difference between apps and and an operating system. I claimed that if you had source for an IOS app you could read the source and build the app. That is an open source app. By definition. IOS is not open source and OSX is not open source, but openDarwin is open source and Apple contributes its changes to it. Not that that is relevant.
As a sidenote I personally think (i.e.. opinion, limited value only) that people who use download binaries are not really using open source because they do not know for sure that the binaries they are using match the source.
Given that unless you wrote and built your own compiler by hand, in machine code not using YACC or some such, you are still dependant on someone else's binary (http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/04/15/strange-loops-dennis-ritchie-a/) you are whistling dixie to say an app is not open source only because of the development system you use. Try thinking not just believing what you are told. "Religious" points of view are invariably invalid.
No, we have not been talking about who owns the device. I own my iPhone. Apple has access to root on my iPhone and it comes pre-pwned by Apple and my Telco (at a minimum). That is really not any different from any Googlebox. Either can be "rooted" by the user (at a cost and a risk to security), both are "rooted" by the OS creator and the Telco (at a minimum). I happen (at this point in time) trust Apple more than Google. Your mileage may vary.
I will not be responding further to this thread. You simple do not appear to have anything to contribute and I am fed up with your insults and apparent silliness. Nevertheless, I wish you well in the future.
Nevertheless, I wish you well in the future.
Thanks, you too.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
you have to realize that apple can't win in this scenario. if they had made the 4s ineligble for the update, then people would be screaming about forced obsolencence and upgrades. but if they include it, then people complain that it doesn't run as well as on new phones.
Apple could have made iOS 9 for iPhone 4S without the heaviest features, just as early iPhones didn't get multitasking when it was first added to iOS. Or Apple could unlock the four-year-old device's bootloader for others to support.
I have a 4S and this bitch slowed down so much, I almost had to buy a new phone. Seriously. For months I couldn't even pull up the calculator.
But unfortunate if you do a "Reset to Factory Settings" it fixes it. I don't think said person will win because doing that does indeed fix the performance issues... But dammit I want $5 million! Especially from Apple.
Used EVs have horrible resale value for exactly this reason.