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Entering the Age of Body-Worn Police Cameras (arstechnica.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Cyrus Farivar writes about what's being called a new era in policing: the era of body-worn cameras. They're gaining a foothold in departments around the U.S. after a year of increasing tensions between police and citizens, caused by a series of high-profile shootings. Several research groups are busily evaluating how the cameras affect the way police do their jobs. Many officers welcome the technology — in addition to providing evidence backing up the use of force, it often helps with investigations, capturing details they may miss at the time of an incident. Farivar even goes through a couple of simulated encounters, while pretending to be a cop. The camera easily shows him everything he did wrong. In this way, police officers can also review encounters for training purposes. As more departments adopt them, it's looking like a win-win — police benefit, and the public gets access to some much-desired accountability.

202 comments

  1. The age of body-worn police cameras by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... shall be counterbalanced by body-worn citizen cameras targeting the police.

    1. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ... shall be counterbalanced by body-worn citizen cameras targeting the police.

      You're making it sound like cameras are a win for the police state that needs to be redressed. It's the opposite. Police cameras are a step towards accountability*, not big brother. Police cameras are already (figuratively) targeting the police, that's the point.

      *Obviously this, possibly naively, assumes that mandatory police cameras are accompanied by appropriate penalties whenever they happen to 'glitch' during high-profile situations.

    2. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by gfxguy · · Score: 0

      Why would it need to be counter balanced? I'm not saying citizens shouldn't video cops - and I think cops need to be told that being videoed doing their jobs as public servants is not to be denied, and I'm not even suggesting that having many multiple view points isn't great, but I don't know how a cops video would need to be "counterbalanced."

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    3. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's wrong with the one you already have in your hand? You just need to look up from your browsing and start recording. Or do you really want one that doesn't require you to think, decide, and act.

    4. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      *Obviously this, possibly naively, assumes that mandatory police cameras are accompanied by appropriate penalties whenever they happen to 'glitch' during high-profile situations.

      This is the big problem (which also exists with police dashcam video). I'm thinking that a good solution might be for police to not be in charge of camera footage at all - leave that to internal affairs. Have the cameras timestamp data and perhaps in the future, transmit hashes of video file sections or even the video itself for secure storage.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    5. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "leave that to internal affairs"

      I'd recommend swapping IA for the courts or county records or some other independent agency as many IA departments appear to be basically a rubber stamp for officers actions. Chicagos "Independent Police Review Authority" has been around for almost a decade in arguably one of the more troubled cities for police misconduct and yet it wasn't until a few months ago that they recommended their very first disciplinary action.

    6. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 2

      with police officers wearing cameras, they implicitly control the narrative. They know that they are wearing cameras, and will always be much more familiar than the average citizen with their capabilities and limitations. If a police officer sees what they interpret as an action warranting an escalation of force, they can ensure that this is captured, and (without being malicious) can ensure that it is captured in a way which most-"accurately" depicts their interpretation of the situation.

      Ensuring that other citizens have the right to show things "from their perspective" is key. And honestly, it would be completely absurd to say to anyone, in any situation at all, something which translates to: you are allowed to open your eyes, but you are not allowed to remember what you see.

      --
      -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
    7. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the big problem (which also exists with police dashcam video). I'm thinking that a good solution might be for police to not be in charge of camera footage at all - leave that to internal affairs. Have the cameras timestamp data and perhaps in the future, transmit hashes of video file sections or even the video itself for secure storage.

      It is already standard procedure for Seattle police to tell defendant's attorneys that any subpoenaed video is "unavailable". If you want accountability, the courts must rule that failure to provide the video is an automatic admission of police guilt.

    8. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by spiritplumber · · Score: 1

      Leave it to an agency that is, partially, paid by the LEO wrongdoing incident they catch.

      --
      Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
    9. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think the cameras are probably a good idea, but I've got friends who are cops. And I'm not so sure they are going to be willing/able to let so many minor things slide if they are available for review with video evidence. There may be some unintended consequences here that a lot of people won't be happy with and might not be all that evident.

    10. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      This is the big problem (which also exists with police dashcam video). I'm thinking that a good solution might be for police to not be in charge of camera footage at all - leave that to internal affairs.

      So close, and yet so far. What you do is create a citizen's police review board for every police department and sheriff's office, and then give THEM the footage. I don't trust internal affairs much more than any other cops.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by just_a_monkey · · Score: 1

      Can't they justify why they let things slide, or does their department has some kind of zero-tolerance policy?

      --
      How inappropriate to call this planet Earth, when clearly it is Ocean.
    12. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      The fact that cops, in general, hate to be filmed by the public is prima-facie evidence that it does need to be counterbalanced. As the saying goes, "if they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear" -- and that's a sentiment that legitimately applies to agents of the state, unlike private citizens.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    13. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Obviously this, possibly naively, assumes that mandatory police cameras are accompanied by appropriate penalties whenever they happen to 'glitch' during high-profile situations.

      Present day footage does tend to get lost right at the crucial moments.

      The important part of the victims using their own cams is that it provides a reality check.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    14. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I think the cameras are probably a good idea, but I've got friends who are cops. And I'm not so sure they are going to be willing/able to let so many minor things slide if they are available for review with video evidence. There may be some unintended consequences here that a lot of people won't be happy with and might not be all that evident.

      Which is why the victims need to document as well. Especially when the cops get to threatening retaliation for following the law.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    15. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "willing/able to let so many minor things slide"

      Which may be a good thing in the long run, forcing officers to enforce every facet of the law will annoy them and increase public outrage regarding minor/pointless laws hopefully resulting in them being stricken from the books. We have far too many laws that are far to selectively enforced.

    16. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The records/evidence should always be kept by an independent agency with no bias. Though investigations themselves should be handled by the same adversarial system that the public has to deal with. Again a case in Chicago showed that the system is often broken, when the PROSECUTORS OFFICE was acting like the officers defense team in the grand jury allowing the officers to address the grand jury without questioning, paying experts to argue that their actions were justified and presenting an opinion that the officers actions were justified.

    17. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by laurencetux · · Score: 1

      i would put one and only one "cutout" on that

      If and only if there is a Massive amount of evidence otherwise (a group of Forensic Tech or a group of Neutral Priests is Giving Witness other video ect) then the police are "off the hook"

      i would further have Criminal Charges filed (with any special circs in play) when police are found guilty of misconduct.

      NO MORE THUGS WITH BADGES

    18. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Copid · · Score: 1

      Having something in your hand when a cop things you're not his friend can be dangerous. Pointing that thing at the cop is probably not a good idea.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    19. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      The problem is that there is nothing your own body camera would help you with in the case under discussion, because the cop would actually be entirely within their rights (some might even suggest it was their duty) to enforce those other charges if they can.

      There are many minor things a cop can cite you for that they generally overlook because its hard to prove and not a good use of their time to try. They may be nitpicky things, but they wouldn't be trumped up charges. Your citizen body camera wouldn't help you in the slightest because it wouldn't be misconduct, they'd simply be enforcing more of the law.

      That's the danger. When it becomes super easy to enforce certain laws that have been mostly ignored due to the difficulty of prosecution, those laws will be enforced to the benefit of the public coffers due to extra fine revenue. If body cameras not only make that easier, but also make it harder for cops to exercise their discretion to *not* charge you, that could be an uncomfortable scenario because many cops actually do give you a break, but if there's proof they ignored something, they may no longer be able to be nice about it.

    20. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      *Obviously this, possibly naively, assumes that mandatory police cameras are accompanied by appropriate penalties whenever they happen to 'glitch' during high-profile situations.

      Body-cams are pretty much standard in most UK forces already, and there have been several incidents of civilian death where the cameras have been "faulty", including incidents with multiple officers on-scene. The most famous one was a non-demonstrator caught behind police lines during a (mostly peaceful) demonstration in London, who was thumped with a police baton and died. No-one was charged.

      I personally think the only control any police officer should have over the cameras is a "I'm going to the toilet" button, which should be pressed in view of the toilet door, and an "overtime" button to stop the camera shutting down at the end of the day if the case they're working holds them back after scheduled hours. No police officer should be physically able to review or edit footage until the unit has been handed in to a court body that they downloads the footage to secure storage.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    21. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by dpidcoe · · Score: 1

      If cameras do make enforcement of nitpicky BS laws a thing, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. In a perfect world, that sort of scenario would provide motivation to get rid of those laws. In reality, it's tough to call which way it'll go.

    22. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by dpidcoe · · Score: 1

      Video from multiple perspectives is always helpful. I remember one (and unfortunantly don't have the link handy) amazing demonstration of this in which the two difference squad car dashcam videos are shown. The first you see a suspect running away from the squad car with another officer in persuit. Another officer approaches with gun drawn from ahead of the suspect and perpendicular to his direction of running, and as the suspect turns, the officer guns him down with a convenience store as a backstop for the bullets. It looks like a really irresponsible and unjustified police shooting if there ever was one. Then you see the camera view from the other squad car at a different angle in which the suspect pulls a gun out of his waistband while running and is beginning to point it towards the cops, and it all makes sense.

    23. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OMG, that'd be horrible. Hopefully someone will use their smartphone to video your beatdown and shooting for pointing a ubiquitous, non-weapon at a non-friend, you know, for evidence.

    24. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you do is create a citizen's police review board for every police department and sheriff's office, and then give THEM the footage.

      We used to have these 'citizen's police review boards'. It was called 'the press'. Just send it directly to the press. Make it all publicly available. No, I'm not joking.

    25. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and tie it somehow to Accounting & Payroll for billable hours. Make it difficult to mess up, so much so that if someone messes with it, they have to go to IT / engineering and get it fixed (send it back and get a new one, etc).

    26. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by HiThere · · Score: 1

      And that's a major point. Selective enforcement of the law is an extremely bad thing. Whether the laws would actually get repealed or not is an interesting question, but even if they don't getting rid of selective enforcement may be worth it.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    27. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Also make it illegal to act officially while your camera is inoperable. I really dislike that in many departments the police can, at their own decision, turn off the camera. That has been used to cloak violently illegal acts, that wouldn't have been ever known if some bystander hadn't been taking a photo. Sound recording is also important.

      There's lots of nitpicky technical details that need to be thought through, but the prime importance is that immutable records of police actions should always be available. I don't say made public when they aren't relevant. Everybody needs to go to the john. But they need to be available.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    28. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by HiThere · · Score: 2

      It's happened already. Not, admittedly, frequently. But most people refrain from obviously filming police.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    29. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by Hussman32 · · Score: 1

      Taking this one further, if you have record of every police interaction and they become public record, external groups will start analyzing the statistics based on age, race, sex, apparent religion, physical attractiveness etc. Then the external groups will prepare studies that show discrimination based on age, race, sex, apparent religion, physical attractiveness. Then there will be protests based on these studies.

      Twenty years down the line these may have positive effects, but the transition to that time will be tough.

      --
      "Who are you?" "No one of consequence." "I must know." "Get used to disappointment."
    30. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by transporter_ii · · Score: 2

      Both sides can be filming and it not stop a shooting, too. Here is a video where the officer had a body camera and the teen had a cell phone recording. It didn't stop the officer from shooting him: https://youtu.be/h-uXeAvpVHk

      Neither version helped convict the officer, either. It was ruled justified. I lean heavily in favor of the teen, but I can see the officer spin it enough to make it sound like a legit shooting. The poor kid should have sucked it up more and did what the officer said. But still, in the same situation, I would not have shot the teen. The officer called for backup, but did not wait.

      --
      Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
    31. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by cusco · · Score: 1

      An option on a lot of these wearable cameras is a bulk erase, dumping all recordings. I'd be surprised if a lot of departments weren't insisting on having that feature enabled by default.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    32. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think it'll lead to me being ignored even when there's video evidence that I'm jaywalking, while a young black woman who looks like she's got an "attitude" will be cited, and, for some odd reason, the video won't be lost.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    33. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      Personally, if I was in a grand jury where the prosecutor acted like this I would vote for prosecution.

    34. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      I also see this a a likely possibility. It would really make people aware of just how bad our laws really are, and hopefully create enough outrage to reboot the system entirely, because that is what is really needed at this point. There are literally too many laws on the books for a single person to read them in a single lifetime, much less understand them, and this is an extremely serious issue. As things stand the government can just make shit up that sounds like it might be a law and it would not really be contested because there is nobody in the whole damn world who actually knows if it is a real law or not.

    35. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      Then make it illegal for them to use cameras that have the feature at all. It isn't like there will not be any available, when there are hundreds of thousands of these that they have to buy companies will make them especially for the pigs.

    36. Re:The age of body-worn police cameras by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      That's why cops should never be tried in the same district in which they work.

  2. It's a great move forward. by gfxguy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A lot of the things that have happened recently in the U.S. could have been put to rest - one way or another - with first person video (and often multiple points of view).

    Dash cams are great, and we should continue using them on EVERY car, but every officer should also have this kind of tech. There should also be punishments or reprimands if the device is turned off during a shift (malfunctions aside). The video should also be streamed to their vehicles and, perhaps, even relayed directly back to the station.

    --
    Stupid sexy Flanders.
    1. Re:It's a great move forward. by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      A lot of the things that have happened recently in the U.S. could have been put to rest - one way or another - with first person video (and often multiple points of view). Dash cams are great, and we should continue using them on EVERY car, but every officer should also have this kind of tech. There should also be punishments or reprimands if the device is turned off during a shift (malfunctions aside). The video should also be streamed to their vehicles and, perhaps, even relayed directly back to the station.

      I'm all for this, but some recent events caught on video haven't been enough to draw up charges. They make sure to take care of their own.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    2. Re:It's a great move forward. by gfxguy · · Score: 2

      I don't get it... the first article says the officer was charged with murder, in the second the motorist was completely wrong.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    3. Re:It's a great move forward. by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I linked to the wrong incident for the first one. The second one, the teen in question did act poorly, but the shooting was an excessive use of force. Besides, the cop was stupid for pulling the teen over for brighting him. He could have just flashed the kid back and moved on with life. I'm probably also a little pumped up right now because I just got done watching Making a Murderer.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    4. Re:It's a great move forward. by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      It is having an effect though, even if some sketchy incidents are ultimately not prosecuted. This is a good thing.

      Quite frankly, I doubt police incidents are worse or more numerous than in the past, just more visible because of cell phones.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    5. Re:It's a great move forward. by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      in the second the motorist was completely wrong.

      So was the cop. First he was knowingly and intentionally driving around in a dangerous manner (headlights angled too high mean oncoming drivers can't see properly). Instead of getting his car fixed he used that as an excuse to stop and check as many drivers as he could.

      Then the cop seemed intent on escalating the situation to the greatest extent possible, and was never in danger of his life.

      Was the teen an idiot? Yep, but that's not an excuse for an execution.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    6. Re:It's a great move forward. by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Whether police are involved or not, I am highly suspicious of most any video posted these days because it seems that they somehow manage to always miss the initial incident and only catch the "overreactive" response.
      I also am skeptical of all of these videos of street interactions. It's not like the camera is rolling continuously and of course they can pick and choose the interactions they show depending on what agenda they want to put forth. Also, shouldn't they be getting all of these people they are filming to sign a release?

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    7. Re:It's a great move forward. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes.

      There is this pervasive notion that if you piss off a cop or even disobey him, he has the right to shoot you. He only can use deadly force if he is in danger of severe injury himself.

    8. Re:It's a great move forward. by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      Can we have a public feed sponsored by Dunk'n'Doughnuts

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    9. Re:It's a great move forward. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other side: it would also be great if the States _clearly_ codified the laws related to Citizens wearing their OWN cameras (as well as recording their own calls).

      I know that in my state the laws are grey in that they talk about 3rd-party recording but don't seem to address 1st-person recording (i.e. me recording all my interactions with other individuals). As common sense: I should have the right to record any conversation in which I am a participant regardless of whether the other party wants it - they can always walk away or hang up. And also what would be the status and protection of my data: can cops confiscate it (and conceivably make it disappear) or would it be solely in my possession? Evidence or not: my product should be mine to do with as I wish (save, of course, editing the material).

      If they can 'protect' themselves by video & audio recording then why can't we do the same?

    10. Re:It's a great move forward. by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      I think there is a pervasive notion that it is stupid to give a cop shit, no matter if you think he's going to shoot you or not. And I agree with that notion. I don't care if a cop is a dick to me, the place to handle that is a complaint to the department and the citizen's review board, not on the side of the road.

      Yes, the cop has no right to treat me in a dickish manner, and yes, he should be run out of the department. However, being an asshat about it on site is a great way to undermine your case and possibly get you dead at the hands of an unbalanced individual who happens to be a cop.

      Dealing with law enforcement is always best when the situation is under the control of you and your lawyers. In a traffic stop, the cop is specifically trained to ensure the situation is under his control and he is practiced at that. You need to be calm, collect necessary evidence and recollections, and live through the encounter without giving him more ammo to charge you with and make you less likely to be sympathetic.

    11. Re:It's a great move forward. by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      There should also be punishments or reprimands if the device is turned off during a shift (malfunctions aside).

      There are times when a police officer is on shift but in what is considered private time.
      - Do we need to record an officer urinating.
      - Are private conversations over lunch public record?
      I believe that the camera needs to be on at any time an officer is interacting with the public but not all shift. I agree with the punishment/reprimand if they do not have it on at the correct times.
      As for streaming to car or station. I believe it should be done where practical but there are places where radio signals do not propagate well even back to the cruiser. There always needs to be storage on the camera that gets downloaded every shift.

    12. Re:It's a great move forward. by russotto · · Score: 2

      I think there is a pervasive notion that it is stupid to give a cop shit, no matter if you think he's going to shoot you or not. And I agree with that notion. I don't care if a cop is a dick to me, the place to handle that is a complaint to the department and the citizen's review board, not on the side of the road.

      Complaining to the department and the citizen's review board will do dick and squat. Unless the cops decide to retaliate for you doing so, which they often do, in which case you'll find yourself cited for every possible violation, real or imagined, for a while thereafter.

    13. Re:It's a great move forward. by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      Ferguson would have been over in about 5 minutes.

    14. Re:It's a great move forward. by Hussman32 · · Score: 1

      I remember being stupid with my friends driving at night brighting a car rapidly for the fun of it. The car turned on the red and blues rapidly for a second and drove on by.

      Those were the days...glad he gave us a pass.

      --
      "Who are you?" "No one of consequence." "I must know." "Get used to disappointment."
    15. Re:It's a great move forward. by cusco · · Score: 1

      Sign a release? Not if you're in public, where you have no expectation of privacy.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    16. Re:It's a great move forward. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In 5 years, these will move to live streamed body cams. (Using newly opened spectrum already allocated for this purpose.)

    17. Re:It's a great move forward. by Mitreya · · Score: 1

      There should also be punishments or reprimands if the device is turned off during a shift (malfunctions aside).

      That's a key part right there. If there is no punishment, then videos would exonerate when helpful and "disappear" when not so helpful.

      From what I understand there was at least one incident when something like 16 different dashboard car cameras all simultaneously "malfunctioned" during a beating incident.

    18. Re:It's a great move forward. by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Sign a release? Not if you're in public, where you have no expectation of privacy.

      It depends on local regulations. You can't film a post office and some other government buildings. You can't film on private property (including malls, parking lots, hospitals, sports arenas) without permission.
      The safest response to "when do I need a release" is "Always".

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  3. Hear, hear by rmdingler · · Score: 1
    Though, it's likely not necessary to sell the use of body cameras by law enforcement on this forum.

    This is an appropriate application of technology to remedy a system that has shown to have abuses of power.

    And. It should be sold to those who police us as, "Well, if you have nothing to hide..."

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:Hear, hear by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not just to curtail abuses of power either, but to protect good cops who take the appropriate actions but afterwards are second-guessed and told they acted inappropriately. Instead of just having "they say this/the officer says that", we can have a video released showing the entire encounter. That video can either exonerate the officer (stopping huge protests or calls for his arrest) or provide evidence if he did do something wrong. Either way, more transparency is a good thing for everyone involved.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:Hear, hear by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      It's not just to curtail abuses of power either, but to protect good cops who take the appropriate actions but afterwards are second-guessed and told they acted inappropriately. Instead of just having "they say this/the officer says that", we can have a video released showing the entire encounter. That video can either exonerate the officer (stopping huge protests or calls for his arrest) or provide evidence if he did do something wrong. Either way, more transparency is a good thing for everyone involved.

      Absolutely. It's a thankless job, and my hat is off to the folks who deal with it daily.

      But if we're honest, widespread proliferation of body cameras is not occurring to protect good cops.

      Abuses of the power of police are daily time fillers for the 24 news cycle on the order of D.J. Trump.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    3. Re:Hear, hear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exonerating the officer will never stop a huge protest that is already in-progress.

      If nothing else, the aftermath of the Ferguson protests (the little after-protests that didn't make the national news) showed that protesters gonna protest, facts be damned. People are angry about a million little abuses and/or personal beefs. They're not protesting the major incident, they're protesting a million little incidents that they were personally involved in, but in the name of the major incident.

      Or looting. A good number of jackass "protesters" were just looting because, well, free (stolen) stuff!

    4. Re:Hear, hear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If nothing else, the aftermath of the Ferguson protests (the little after-protests that didn't make the national news) showed that protesters gonna protest, facts be damned.

      "Facts be damned"? The facts in Ferguson were (and still are) definitely worth protesting.

    5. Re:Hear, hear by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      protect good cops who take the appropriate actions but afterwards are second-guessed and told they acted inappropriately

      Considering how often police literally get away with murder, I refuse to believe the frequency with which this sort of thing happens is anything more than negligible.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    6. Re:Hear, hear by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking of situations where people - already on edge because of the actions of bad cops - take half of the story of an otherwise perfectly understandable police response and blow it out of proportion. The good officers get swept up in the hysteria over the bad officers' actions. Body cameras will give the public the full story which should deflate outrage in cases of good cops and focus is on the bad cops where it belongs. Everyone wins (except for the bad cops).

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    7. Re:Hear, hear by Copid · · Score: 1

      That's the reason we want them. But the reason police unions can't find a politically viable reason to oppose them is that they'll protect the good cops that they assure us are 99.999999999% of all officers. Especially since the statistics seem to show that cameras reduce complaints against officers. Whether that's because they're mostly acting better or because people were mostly making up those complaints isn't something we ever even need to know. The fact that the cameras have that effect is reason enough for the unions to acquiesce.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    8. Re:Hear, hear by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 1

      It also has the potential to save a lot of money as petty thugs caught red-handed will no longer bother to plead Not Guilty after seeing the police videos, reducing court costs.

    9. Re:Hear, hear by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      What exactly facts do you think were worth protesting? Reading the witness accounts that were released, I see no reason to believe that the officer acted out of expected behavior.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    10. Re:Hear, hear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It areas where the police officers have already been using personal cameras one of the side effects was deescalation of a situation. When the officer and the suspect both know they are being recorded they both tend to keep better control of themselves.

    11. Re:Hear, hear by sribe · · Score: 1

      It's not just to curtail abuses of power either, but to protect good cops who take the appropriate actions but afterwards are second-guessed and told they acted inappropriately.

      Yep, I bet at least 90% of complaints are bogus. And for the rest, the cameras will help toward the more timely removal of those officers not suited for the job.

    12. Re:Hear, hear by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Probably more than 90% of the complaints against police are invalid. But it's the other 9% or so that interest *me*. They happen, and they have often been documented to result in innocent people ending up dead.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  4. Use of force? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    in addition to providing evidence backing up the use of force

    If a police officer needs to use force for anything other than a massive shoot-out with criminal gangs then either he's failing as a police officer or America is failing as a civilisation. There are countries in the world where the police don't routinely carry guns. American police have killed more people in the first few days of the year than most countries do annually.

    Police should be attempting to find alternatives to the use of force to resolve situations rather than backing it up.

    1. Re:Use of force? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in addition to providing evidence backing up the use of force

      If a police officer needs to use force for anything other than a massive shoot-out with criminal gangs then either he's failing as a police officer or America is failing as a civilization.

      The second one. We no longer have freedom of speech, we have "Freedom to say what you want, as long as the government can collect it to use against you later... and it doesn't hurt anybody elses feelings". We have a constant dichotomy regarding gun control. Yes, we have the right to bear arms (... to form militias, when the U.S.A. didn't have a standing army), the right to possess and use firearms for legal purposes (e.g. hunting, competitions, etc...), but we choke up for two weeks when the next psychopath gets his hands on a gun and shoots up a building. We don't actually do anything about it, we just report on it, forward the story through social media, get a few hundred likes, then forget it.

      There might just be enough people to support a cause, but there is only so much "liking and forwarding" can do. Public opinion means nothing unless someone actually takes action, via petition, demonstration, or running for office.

    2. Re:Use of force? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in addition to providing evidence backing up the use of force

      If a police officer needs to use force for anything other than a massive shoot-out with criminal gangs then either he's failing as a police officer or America is failing as a civilization.

      The second one. We no longer have freedom of speech, we have "Freedom to say what you want, as long as the government can collect it to use against you later... and it doesn't hurt anybody elses feelings". We have a constant dichotomy regarding gun control. Yes, we have the right to bear arms (... to form militias, when the U.S.A. didn't have a standing army), the right to possess and use firearms for legal purposes (e.g. hunting, competitions, etc...), but we choke up for two weeks when the next psychopath gets his hands on a gun and shoots up a building. We don't actually do anything about it, we just report on it, forward the story through social media, get a few hundred likes, then forget it.

      There might just be enough people to support a cause, but there is only so much "liking and forwarding" can do. Public opinion means nothing unless someone actually takes action, via petition, demonstration, or running for office.

      We also have President Mom Jeans crying during an executive order that essentially does absolutely nothing.

    3. Re:Use of force? by jabuzz · · Score: 3

      You are assuming that use of force means opening fire with a gun. It could also mean firing a taser or use of pepper and/or CS spray, deployment of a baton, use of force in restraint etc. I say all this as a UK citizen where all of the above would be described as use of force.

      Here is an example of none lethal force being deployed probably inappropriately leading to the death of someone in the U.K.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-s...

      The Police don't need guns to kill you.

    4. Re:Use of force? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Use of force is a continuum... the lowest use of force: Presence of a police officer, escalation number one: a verbal command... Think a tiny bit before doing your shooting (of your mouth)

    5. Re:Use of force? by Ogive17 · · Score: 2

      I'm sure there are more US police that are killed in the line of duty as well.

      I look at it as a "chicken or the egg" type question. Which came first, public mistrust of the police or policy paranoia? My dad is a retired cop, sheriff's department for a county with less than 100,000 total residents (I think the department was involved in only 2 or 3 shootings in his 25+ years.. every time the criminal fired the first shots). Even on traffic stops, they are worried that the driver could easily be waiting with a gun in their hand. They do not trust anyone.

      I think it's more a statement on society in general. Anyone can be armed and everyone is considered a potential threat.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    6. Re:Use of force? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure there are more US police that are killed in the line of duty as well.

      Are you assuming that or have you actually looked for the statistics? I say that, because I've seen others post stats that say otherwise; that police officers are actually one of the more safer occupations when compared to construction, fire fighters, etc. I'm not going to say you're wrong, but as your entire post hinges on this assumption, it may be a good idea to back it up with an actual source.

    7. Re:Use of force? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      So we'll go with America failing as a civilisation then. I find it absolutely amazing that the country ended up in a position that the police are completely distrusted and that they defend themselves in ways that make themselves untrustworthy.

      It's not really a hole you can easily dig yourself out of short of completely disbanding one side and starting afresh.

    8. Re:Use of force? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      The executive order is an attempt to fix the instant background check system, which is something that should have been done a long time ago. Case in point: I pawned my pistol. To get it back out of pawn, they had to run a background check on me... which took over a month to complete! (We won't go into the stupidity of requiring a background check before returning my own property to me). Lesson learned: don't pawn firearms!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    9. Re:Use of force? by qurk · · Score: 2

      Any policeman with a gun strapped to his side is an inititial, immediate threat. The fact that it's impossible to trust them, even to do what is in their best interests, makes any situation where you are near one more volatile. The fact that police unions across the country still cater to Harry Anslingers beliefs, a man who died 60 years ago, over any conceivable application of American liberties or ideals, shows that not a single man with a badge can be trusted. Any encounter with the police must be realized to perhaps be the last thing you will experience as a living human being on this planet. There is no compromise, they can, and will terminate you as a sentient being for any reason at their own whim, and even though you will be dead, they will face no accountability by their peers.

    10. Re:Use of force? by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is that throughout the rest of the world no cops ever have to tackle a criminal and pin them while they get their cuffs on? Must be nice living in a fantasyland.

    11. Re:Use of force? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      No what I'm saying is in much of the rest of the civilised world a cop's first reaction is not to pull a gun, and as such a citizen's first reaction is not typically to distrust the police.

      There are no absolutes. But the insanity that is the militarised police force of America and the general distrust of the citizens towards them is quite unique in countries with a functioning democracy.

    12. Re:Use of force? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      To be at all fair you would need to compare population sizes.

      OTOH, the US *is* failing as a civilization. Most "top countries" have throughout history, so that's not too surprising. The reason for my assertion is the gap between the median income level and the mean income level...which has been increasing. Also the location of the mode of income. It is my assertion that a civilization is failing when the wealthiest 10% of the population is more than 50 times as wealthy as the poorest 10%. You can make reasonable arguments that for a population as large as that of the US the difference should be 75 or 100 times. Any larger and you are just putting lipstick on a pig. There are many reasonable arguments about HOW things should be changed to reach a more reasonable level. Personally I favor a combination of a guaranteed income and an exponential income tax. (Probably about 1.5 for the exponent, but that would need to be calculated.) And no exemptions for any income from whatever source. If you want to promote particular industries, use a more explicit subsidy.

      Please note: This would not suffice to turn the US into a successful civilization. That would require a respect for polite behavior and for learning...but don't confuse respect with adulation. It would also require teaching people how to evaluate evidence. (That's a really tricky one, as so much depends on properly trusting other people. I'm still working on it for myself.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    13. Re:Use of force? by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      What a coincidence! It's not the first reaction of the cops here either in the vast majority of cases.

    14. Re:Use of force? by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      That line is in reference to the GP post where police in other countries do not carry guns. I simply stated that not as many police in those countries are killed in the line of duty.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    15. Re:Use of force? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So we should get rid of all police since we cannot trust them. We don't need them. We as citizens can police ourselves and solve our differences, robbery, accidents, murders, etc. all by ourselves. Then we won't have to be afraid of police anymore.

      Why didn't we think of this before we created the position of police!?

    16. Re:Use of force? by Optic7 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm also voting for the second option (America failing as a civilization).

      Yes, there are many terrible cops should not be cops in the US, but the majority of them are actually not terrible. You have to realize that cops are thrown into an environment where they might be genuinely in fear for their lives a good part of the time.

      Think about the current situation in the US:

      1. Almost no gun control, which means that virtually anyone anywhere may be armed to the teeth.

      2. Poor access to education for large segments of the population, which means that the population at large and the cops don't generally have a very good or high-level of education, which, in turn can lead to elevated levels of violence. For instance, there was a recent study that demonstrated a pattern that cops with only a high-school education are more likely to use force than cops with a college degree, and most cops don't have a college degree.

      3. There's a dangerously low amount of social services, and a particularly egregious lack of certain services like public psychiatric wards (I understand that this was thanks to Saint Reagan). This means that there are many honestly, completely crazy people roaming the streets. I have personally seen many, many, many schizophrenic people running around yelling at themselves, or making other crazy noises and gestures on the streets. It's very, very sad.

      4. Historic racial, and class tensions in the US, which means that people already come into this with pre-conceived notions about the other.

      5. America has a LOT of poverty. This amplifies every problem listed above.

      Put all these factors together and you have a recipe for disaster, which is exactly what we have been seeing. I don't blame the cops in general - like I said, there are some bad apples, but they are generally in a very, very tough situation

    17. Re:Use of force? by Optic7 · · Score: 1

      I agree with most of what you say, except I don't quite understand your point about respect for polite behavior. It seems to me that several countries that are more advanced and civilized and less violent than the US accept less polite behavior. Can you explain what you mean?

  5. Complaints go down for more than one reason by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 5, Informative

    One of the effects of body cameras is complaints against the police go down:

    http://www.sandiegouniontribun...

    http://www.cleveland.com/cityh...

    http://www.policeone.com/offic...

    Policing involves dealing with people who are motivated to lie; lie to the police and lie about the police. All cops hear all day long are lies lies lies and some of those lies get pointed at them. It's true that cops are less likely to abuse their position if they know they're being recorded but that also holds true for citizens lying about cops' conduct.

    The net effect is complaints go down, but there are two forces giving rise to that effect; it's not just the police changing their conduct. Just sayin'

    1. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We see this with other targeted CCTV use too.

      When you fit forward facing video cameras (ie they get roughly the same view as the driver, not a view of the driver, or the passengers) to trains, you get both

      1. Drivers stop lying about shit they know the camera will disprove. Previously you might get away with claiming a fault somehow made the signal show you the wrong aspect. Probably no-one will have really believed you, but it's better to have the benefit of doubt than admit you were day dreaming and not looking at the signal. Getting rid of the lies means less time wasted on investigating crazy stories.

      2. Drivers know the camera will prove they were right when mad shit does happen. If they know they saw the signal thrown back, that will be on the video. Doesn't matter if the signaller says it wasn't, because the video is proof of what they saw. Likewise if some idiot in high vis suddenly steps back in front of their train after giving them a hand up (signal acknowledging you've seen the train and will stand clear) that'll be on the video, proving the driver did their job correctly and the death or injury that followed isn't their fault.

    2. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by serviscope_minor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Policing involves dealing with people who are motivated to lie

      Yes: cops.

      Being glib, but every time there's some problem with the police (over hear at any rate), they release a statement, then a week later, it turns out that the police lied to try to save their own skins.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    3. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by fred911 · · Score: 1

      "Policing involves dealing with people who are motivated to lie; lie to the police and lie about the police. "

      Never, ever talk to police. Provide polite identification and documentation as required by law, then shut the fuck up. Repeat, shut the fuck up, no small talk, explanations, excuses destinations, plans or BS. People abiding the law don't have to explain ANYTHING (most of the time police look to entrap you with communication).

      I'm sorry officer but I'm unable to provide any further information, may I go or am I under arrest?

      Simple and effective.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    4. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not just to protect yourself from the law.
      Back 30 years, the coppers trawled alongside me as I was walking through town on the way to the pub after work ...
      "Hi there", says the passenger cop hanging out the window, "Where are you going?"
      "For a walk", says I.
      Repeat 4 times, then they got tired of it.
      I found out afterwards that some of the sketchier acquaintances of my friends had seen me thusly accosted by the coppers.
      Any prolonged conversation, cooperation or friendliness would have tagged me as an undercover narc, and put on the "short list".

      Don't talk to cops.
      They are NOT your friend (unless you're also a cop, in which case, just chat amongst yourselves and leave us alone, eh?).

    5. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who seems more likely to change their behavior because of body cameras: Some yahoo on the street in the middle of an emergency or outburst, or the police who are carrying them full-time and receiving specific training and documentation on its use as a daily tool?

      I read these statistics as far more likely a change on the part of the police who know their standard abusive tactics will now be observable by others.

    6. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      I found out afterwards that some of the sketchier acquaintances of my friends had seen me thusly accosted by the coppers. Any prolonged conversation, cooperation or friendliness would have tagged me as an undercover narc, and put on the "short list".

      Don't talk to cops. They are NOT your friend (unless you're also a cop, in which case, just chat amongst yourselves and leave us alone, eh?).

      If you have friends who are affiliated with people who would kill you just for talking to a cop you might want to rethink your life

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    7. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      "Everytime" sounds like hyperbole fuelled by the wonderful media that goes after the statements in the first place. The reality is that the police have several orders of magnitude more altercations than you ever hear about.

    8. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are way more lying criminals than lying cops.

      I won't trust either one blindly, but I've witnessed things like a guy who was drugged out of his mind who had caused accidents trying to flee from the cops and throwing the bag of drugs out of his own pocket, as if to blame the police for using a throw bag.

    9. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      True, but talking to the police could inadvertently end up with you charged with a crime you didn't commit, as well as various and sundry other inconveniencing issues.

      See this video for details:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      Warning, this video contain the views of professional attorneys, past attorney generals, and law enforcement. It will make sense and you will learn something. Please don't view this if you are contemplating a crime.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    10. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 1
    11. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 1

      You're forgetting that 95% of the time, it's the perp that is lying. Now, those 95% of cases will go very smoothly indeed, with the perp generally pleading Guilty.

    12. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      Doesn't have to be friends even, could be the local wildlife seeing you doing too much talking. If you live in gang country that could reasonably end up going poorly for you.

    13. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your country has failed if it has 'gang country'.

    14. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that a statistical fact or a guess of some kind? I wanted to find some statistics about this but I'm not sure where to look.

      https://www.google.com/search?q=police+report+lie+statistics

    15. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by Vlado · · Score: 1

      Speaking from firsthand experience, I know for a fact that police routinely lie in their reports.

      When I was younger I was couple of times part of the police "procedure". Long story short, they would essentially harass kids who were out, having a something to drink (not illegally). After they finished their thing and filed their reports I was, among others, called to a local court, dealing in misdemeanors where I had to defend against doing things that never happened.

      I don't care if the police simply made a mistake, or (in my opinion more likely) straight-out lied. The fact was, that I did absolutely nothing wrong and someone in position of power put me in a position where I was blamed for the things that they made up.

      Thankfully there was no physical abuse happening, but I would be really glad if there was an independent, incorruptible witness to the whole event.

    16. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's not a SJW: that's a narcissistic nut.

      While there are overlaps between those two groups, they are not completely congruent.

    17. Re:Complaints go down for more than one reason by Optic7 · · Score: 1

      Let me guess: do you live in Chicago? Remember that some places are a lot worse with this than others.

  6. Research Groups by 110010001000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It always seems like there are tons of "research groups" investigating every move the government makes. Who is paying these groups? Follow the money. They aren't doing it for free.

    1. Re:Research Groups by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      Who cares? I mean, OK, sometimes I care, but in this case is there really any doubt of the positive benefits? Just because someone's making money doesn't mean it's bad.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    2. Re:Research Groups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think 110010001000 mentioned anything about making money being bad. He/she seemed to be concerned about conflicts of interest resulting from the source(s) of funding.

    3. Re:Research Groups by Shadow+IT+Ninja · · Score: 1

      In the case of organizations like the ACLU and EFF, it's donations from ordinary citizens who want our system to remain a democracy and not a technological totalitarian state.

  7. Wont help much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cops just turn off the cameras whenever they do something illegal anyway, like they do with dash-cams.
    For any accountability to come from cameras, they have to be always on and impossible to disable.

    1. Re:Wont help much by gfxguy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If they are equipped with a camera, and it's not legitimately malfunctioning, then they should automatically be assumed to be at fault if the camera is off during a confrontation.

      Honestly, these body camera should not even have an off switch, they should stream to a server in the officers vehicle, and instantly be streamed to other storage - at least one not controlled by the police department. They should also be required to return to the station and get a replacement if their camera is malfunctioning.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    2. Re:Wont help much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For any accountability to come from cameras, they have to be always on and impossible to disable.

      You can remove the off-button, but there are so many other ways:
      * clothes 'accidentally' obscuring the lens
      * a hand in the way
      * big super-greasy fingerprint clogging the lens
      * camera smashed (allegedly by the 'criminal')

      and so on.

      But you will still catch the stupid power abusers - some of which will be too dumb to successfully hide what they do - or even forget the camera completely.

    3. Re:Wont help much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is the legal standard of what legitimately malfunctioning is? How do you determine after the fact if the camera was malfunctioning during any set period? If the camera is always on and can't be shutoff, is it supposed to be stay on battery power indefinitely? How useful will thousands of hours of footage of the inside of a locker or a locked police car when the officer is off duty? How much more in taxes are you willing to accept for the additional storage/processing/data plans necessary for this cockamamie idea? Anyways qualified immunity kthxbai.

    4. Re:Wont help much by gfxguy · · Score: 2

      Camera battery only has to last a shift.... and, as I mentioned, the data should be relayed to other servers for storage. I do not think it's as burdensome as you suggest. Small, portable, wearable tech... the officer could even have multiple units. Also, the footage does not need to be kept indefinitely, and only clips are required if there is an incident. I think if a cop does not report something, and nobody comes by for some time to report them for something, the space can be reclaimed. But the data should be public, and if some private entity wants to store it all in perpetuity, that'd be their own choice.

      I could accept the cameras not always being on - but then I'd defer to the citizens in cases where the officer failed to turn it on.

      As for what is a legitimate malfunction, that can be tricky. If the video is streamed to the patrol car and instantly relayed back to other storage, then a criminal wouldn't be able to break the camera without the footage being seen. I could see where, otherwise, a criminal could shoot a cop and then break the camera. I wouldn't want something like that happening. But otherwise, obviously, the receiver in the vehicle could warn the officer that there's no signal.

      As for how much I'm willing to pay - the fact is we pay more than enough to do this. You'd probably disagree with me, but I can guarantee I could find enough taxes to cut to pay for this. The alternative is an escalation in claims against police - also costing millions in taxpayer dollars, even if the officer is found innocent and there's no payout.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    5. Re:Wont help much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but a Jury is going to be a lot less likely to take the cop at his word if there was supposed to be video evidence supporting it and there "mysteriously" isn't.

      An example of the same basic premis is the time missing from the Watergate tapes.

  8. What we really need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    What we really need are body-worn politician cameras and microphones. They should live stream 24/7 over the Internet and any interruption of signal should result in a thorough investigation.

    1. Re:What we really need by JeffreyBPetersen · · Score: 1

      It's only a matter of time until somebody does exactly that as a campaign stunt.

  9. Recordings need to be independently reviewed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Recordings are meaningless unless there is independent scrutiny of the recordings. Independent means not only LEOs and prosecutors. These 2 groups have an interest in covering up wrongful LEO behavior. Many recordings should not be made public because they can show victims on their worst day such as a sexual assault or domestic abuse victim. But outside of this envelope we need a coptube website.

    1. Re:Recordings need to be independently reviewed by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      "we need a coptube website."

      Go to "Cop Block" or "Filming Cops" to see hours of police abuse and violence against citizens. That's the interesting stuff.

      If you want a sample of what most "coptube" footage would look like, just park at your local doughnut shop, or beside the road and stare out the windshield.

  10. Privacy Complaints by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Some will (rightly) point out the privacy problems of police executing a no-knock raid and getting film of the housewife traipsing about in her birthday suit.

    Some of them will then proceed to blame the cameras rather than the [unconstitutional] no-knock raids. It's important to be able to clearly analyze the entirely of these situations and realize that the cameras are pointing out yet another reason existing abuses need to be extinguished.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:Privacy Complaints by Shados · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Forget the no knock raid here. People were quick to point at how bad the cameras everywhere policies were in some other countries... The US has a lot of cops. if they all have always on cameras and are just walking around in public...the state now has cameras everywhere. Congratz.

    2. Re:Privacy Complaints by avandesande · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you have a no-knock raid (a highly far fetched scenario BTW), the possibility that your wife is filmed naked is probably the last thing you would be worried about. In fact, if the raid was wrongly initiated such footage would probably be highly sympathetic in a civil lawsuit.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    3. Re:Privacy Complaints by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Forget the no knock raid here. People were quick to point at how bad the cameras everywhere policies were in some other countries... The US has a lot of cops. if they all have always on cameras and are just walking around in public...the state now has cameras everywhere. Congratz.

      At least you don't have an expectation of privacy while there's a cop standing where his body cam can see you - he's right there. That's pretty seriously different. Also, it puts the camera where you really need it — where it can monitor the cops. Remember, cops murdered more people than mass shooters this year.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Privacy Complaints by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Yep. I take issue with the proliferation of fixed-position surveillance cameras, but have no problem with body-worn ones.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    5. Re:Privacy Complaints by MountainLogic · · Score: 1

      Yes, body cameras are a tools for handling over reaching or abusive police activity. If the information is not handled correctly cameras will also have a chilling effect on privacy and our lives. No-knock raids aside, police are often involved in non-criminal issues. Imagine if your teenage child has a yelling incident that adolescents are prone and the neighbors hearing an unusual ruckes next door call the cops - just be be safe. Cops show up to investigate and this teen ager is yelling and crying and generally being an idiot. Sure they calm down when they likely see a cop, but that scene is caught on tape. Imagine a few years latter applying to college and this is out in the net in an easily searchable form or 20 years latter applying for a job? A middle school teacher would not think twice about the scene, but imagine inviting a cop in to report a vandalized car while caring for an alzheimer's parent and some interaction is caught out of context that then make the rounds at work. Balancing these competing needs of openness and privacy is one of the emerging civil rights challenges of our day. As we have all learned that the internet is forever, have learned to not post those selfies of ourselves being overly stupid. We can edit our own posts, but how do you unpost something in the public record? The French have the concept of being able to start fresh: oblivion. In the US we used to be able to move further west and start anew. Where is the new west with the internet?

    6. Re:Privacy Complaints by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are already a lot of cameras anyway (ATMs, grocery shops, traffic cameras, security cameras and etc and etc). Not to mention people with camera phones uploading on social media. For example it is impossible to walk around any public space in Manhattan without being observed by several cameras at any given moment.

      The thing is not the act of observation itself it is what is done with the footage. Most places keep it for a week or a month then dispose of it.

      If you really bad case of paranoia; and don't want anybody to "observe" you; then the only option is to avoid urbanities.

    7. Re:Privacy Complaints by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You mean that some woman who just had her front door kicked in, a gun pointed at her head while she was forced to the ground naked is going to have her naked tits on camera? Woes Me! She will be so distraught that her tits got caught on camera. Just imagine all the emotions going through her head right there because her tits are caught on camera.

      Reality: No one is going to give a shit until some lawyers tell them they could probably get some money out of someone because of it.

    8. Re:Privacy Complaints by Shadow+IT+Ninja · · Score: 1

      I agree that there has traditionally been no expectation of privacy in public but the fact that this is collecting so much data and, potentially, keeping it forever makes things different than before we had the technology we have today. Another factor is the state of information security today. It's really hard to keep data secret and away from attackers. Should the body camera footage from all officers be made public? If not, then the data has to be protected. Is this even practical?

    9. Re:Privacy Complaints by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Remember, cops murdered more people than mass shooters this year.

      Every time a cop kills someone it is not murder. Most time it is justifiable homicide as the suspect was trying to kill the police officer.

    10. Re:Privacy Complaints by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure the numbers aren't comparable if you're talking about all lethal use of force. Cops likely kill more incorrectly than are killed in so-called mass shootings.

    11. Re:Privacy Complaints by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 1

      The privacy issues go far beyond no-knock raids. In many jurisdictions police are routinely dispatched when an ambulance is called. If they have body cameras, they will capture all kinds of intimate things that most people would want to keep private.

    12. Re:Privacy Complaints by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Nothing can ever wash away the shame of being seen on film naked. This is not an exaggeration! Men will be very interested in getting a peek at your pasty, average wife in distress instead of going to one of the thousands of adult sites....

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    13. Re:Privacy Complaints by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I'm sure that it is often justifiable homicide. Also that it is almost always ruled justifiable homicide when investigated. But I'm not at all sure I trust the decision process. You might consider why you do. Remember, if 95% of the cases are, indeed, justifiable homicide, that means that 5% of them are manslaughter or murder.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    14. Re:Privacy Complaints by HiThere · · Score: 1

      FWIW, most of the older security camera produce lousy images. Many times they are not sufficient to reliably identify someone who was undisguised in the photo. It's my understanding, however, that the newer cameras are better...as good as webcams.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    15. Re:Privacy Complaints by brewthatistrue · · Score: 1

      > The US has a lot of cops.

      Let's not overstate the case.

      348 police per 100,000 citizens in the USA.

      Just looking at 1st world countries...

      Fewer than Spain (533), Greece (491), Italy (465), Belgium (421).

      In the same range as Northern Ireland (376), France, Israel, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Austria, Scotland, Germany (296).

      More than Ireland (261), New Zealand, Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, Canada (202), Japan (197), South Korea (195), Finland (137).

      https://en.wikipedia.org/w/ind...

    16. Re:Privacy Complaints by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      That means that your original statement was false as 5% of police killings were not more than the number of people killed in mass shooting last year.

    17. Re:Privacy Complaints by HiThere · · Score: 1

      ???
      Perhaps you are attributing to me something written by someone else. Either that, or you need to explain yourself more fully if you want me to understand you.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    18. Re:Privacy Complaints by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Sorry, the statement I replied to was false.

  11. Tech Issues by rlp · · Score: 1

    I agree that its win-win. Still there are a few tech challenges:

    1) Upload - forget streaming, way too much bandwidth (think 1000's of officers for a large city, not just ONE stream). Will require wired connection and daily time for each officer.
    2) Storage - need to keep YEARS of data for on-going and potential court cases.
    3) Search and retrieval

    --
    [Insert pithy quote here]
    1. Re:Tech Issues by mrlinux11 · · Score: 1

      How do you know the Mayans were wrong ? Or did we misinterpret them ?

    2. Re:Tech Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree that its win-win. Still there are a few tech challenges:

      1) Upload - forget streaming, way too much bandwidth (think 1000's of officers for a large city, not just ONE stream). Will require wired connection and daily time for each officer.
      2) Storage - need to keep YEARS of data for on-going and potential court cases.
      3) Search and retrieval

      All three of those are excellent opportunities for profit by an enterprising IT company. It's win-win-win from my point of view.

    3. Re:Tech Issues by rlp · · Score: 1

      It's humor - ref to the 32-bit time_t issue

      --
      [Insert pithy quote here]
    4. Re:Tech Issues by jabuzz · · Score: 3, Informative

      Storing years of video data is trivially easy if you know what you are doing and not wildly costly. Most of this is never going to be looked at, so HSM with say 1PB of active disk and as large a library as you care should (100PB would be trivial) do the trick. Replicate over a couple of sites. Push everything over say six months old to tape, expire anything over 10 years old unless flagged in advance. One could easily do that for 20million USD, excluding the cost of the data centres. We are talking say 2 racks for the disk storage and servers and however much space you wish to donate to the tape libraries.

      I am not sure what the physical foot print of a fully tricked out IBM TS3500 tape library is but their web page tells me that max capacity is 2.25 Exabytes, mix in some TSM and GPFS (or Spectrum Scale as they call it now) and jobs a good one.

      Large scale storage is only a problem for those that don't know what they are doing.

    5. Re:Tech Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      my time_t is 8 bytes wide, thank you very much. Please update your 2000 era joke.

    6. Re:Tech Issues by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Upload could be managed by a link to the squad car. While he's out of the car just transmit hashes, when he re-enters have a couple of high bandwidth methods. Say uv or ir lightlink as the primary and usb3 as the backup.

      Storage: a real problem, but not insurmountable. Most of the stuff doesn't need to be rapid access, and the video should be highly compressible without loss. Probably a DVD per officer per day would suffice. He checks in his squad car when he goes off work, and that writes out anything needed. Then you file it.

      Search and retrieval: Why should it be searchable except by date and time?

      P.S.: I note someone else gave a different answer, but I think my proposal is cheaper and sufficient. But the group retrieving and storing the data would need to be totally independent of the law enforcement groups. They need to think more like the librarians at the rare books room: "The originals never leave my custody, and they don't get changed."

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  12. Post production editing by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Having footage of actual events is generally a good thing but my worry is that the footage may get edited in "post production" so to speak. Look at any reality TV show and it's pretty easy with some clever (or not so clever) editing to make someone appear far worse or far better than their actual actions. How long before cops learn how to start editing their footage? Who watches the watchmen? I know this stuff is covered under chain of evidence rules but I suspect there will be some loopholes and unforeseen problems to deal with.

    1. Re:Post production editing by Shadow+IT+Ninja · · Score: 1

      I think it's likely that there will eventually be some form of AI going through the video and picking out interesting things. It's probably going to do a poor job in the beginning and then get refinements. I'm not sure that such a system, however, will ever be better than just good enough to be dangerous.

  13. Except when they malfunction by vvaduva · · Score: 1

    Sometimes these cameras amazingly malfunction...right during a fatal shootout with a suspect. Then they magically come back on, as if an unknown force doesn't want to be held accountable. it's amazing.

  14. Citizens recording by vvaduva · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And it is quite foolish to assume that cops want to actually be held accountable. Citizens need to get their own body cams or use apps like Bambuser and Cell 411 to notify each other when they encounter police. Theses types of apps that stream live video are especially necessary for activists and people involved in police encounters on a regular basis. Cops have erased video from citizens' devices in the past in order to destroy evidence, so it is not wise to assume their body cams are there for our protection.

    1. Re:Citizens recording by vvaduva · · Score: 2

      That's a ridiculously ignorant answer. Journalists, independent media people, neighborhood watchers, etc. all encounter cops on a regular basis. Cops are "our servants" - I go out of my way to record them whenever I have a chance. It's good for you that you don't. Unfortunately, we are not all respectable people like you. I bet you never inhaled either or went over the speed limit, uh?

    2. Re:Citizens recording by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      “Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”

    3. Re:Citizens recording by Shadow+IT+Ninja · · Score: 1

      By "encounter" I suppose you mean a case where you directly interact with the police, not just walk by one. With these cameras you only need to be in line of sight to be recorded. I remember, when I was a child in a somewhat more rural area, it was a rare occasion to see a police officer, even at a public event. It made people a little nervous to be near the police even if they were doing nothing wrong. It made people nervous just to see a guy with a gun. Today, in the center of the city where I work, you are almost always within line of sight of at least one police officer when you walk down the streets. I probably walk by several every weekday and hardly take notice.

    4. Re:Citizens recording by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Do you understand the difference between reality and fiction . The book "Atlas Shrugs" is fiction.

    5. Re:Citizens recording by Shadow+IT+Ninja · · Score: 1

      This is exactly the position of the ACLU. You can't count count on police video to be unbiased. You need to take your own video.

    6. Re:Citizens recording by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 1

      Most people are carrying around a high-def video camera at all times. They only need to activate it. And for god's sake, if you're ever filming anything newsworty, HOLD YOUR PHONE SIDEWAYS!

    7. Re:Citizens recording by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if a concept appears in a work of fiction, it is meaningless to you? That sounds incredibly stupid.

      If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument

      JUST in the case of US Federal Tax Law, even the enforcement body (IRS) has recognized that its mission has turned it into an oppressor, with a tax code insanely too complicated to be understood by anyone but a full-time professional and with mandatory penalties for trivial infractions. https://www.irs.gov/pub/tas/08_tas_arc_msp_1.pdf

      Then there are Federal Regulations - rules made up by regulating bodies that have the force of law but which were never voted on. There are well over a million today. http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/politicalcalculations/2012/10/21/counting_all_the_us_governments_regulations

      Toss in state law, state regulation, federal law for everything else other than the tax code ... I guarantee that a prosecutor can ruin anyone or have anyone they want put away for life, should they decide to. And we've seen plenty of cases where this has been exactly the case. Need cites on those too?

      Is that enough reality for you, fuckwit?

    8. Re:Citizens recording by dougmc · · Score: 1

      And it is quite foolish to assume that cops want to actually be held accountable.

      Remember, there's two sides of "being held accountable" --

      1. if they screw up, we know they screwed up -- the evidence is likely to be right there on video.
      2. if they *don't* screw up, we know that too -- the evidence is likely to be right there on video.

      Cameras don't just help hold them accountable for when they screw up -- they also help to hold them accountable for when they do everything right but somebody else might think they screwed up.

  15. then no video = no ticket no court even for DUI by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    then no video = no ticket no court even for DUI and for DUI $75 HR + all costs to the person locked up.

    1. Re:then no video = no ticket no court even for DUI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So no officer video means the breathalyser results, the field interview and the vehicle's camera video all dissipate? I don't think so.

    2. Re:then no video = no ticket no court even for DUI by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      The point is make the cops / state suffer if there video system is not working. Adding DUI does that and makes it a big deal as just as no video = no ticket / no points / no court for speeding like tickets does not really make a super big deal.

  16. inevitable surveillance by ganv · · Score: 2

    There is going to be increasing surveillance of public behavior in the decades to come. Police cameras seem inevitable. Human memory is just so unreliable that recording what actually happened will be overwhelmingly attractive. And sports have shown us what regular review of video can do to enhance performance. We'll have to be strategic in regulating access to these videos since they could become another piece of a comprehensive surveillance network that could enable those in power to suppress dissenters. It seems that recording is going to happen. The question is about how those in power are held accountable for how they use recordings.

    1. Re:inevitable surveillance by Shadow+IT+Ninja · · Score: 1

      They also need to held accountable for how they keep the video footage secure from both malicious insiders and outside hackers.

  17. Traffic cams, Red light cams by MouseTheLuckyDog · · Score: 0

    While we are at it, let's put red light cams on every intersection with a red light.
    And speeding cams on every road--especially highways.

    Hey, you dig into the statistics and the percentage of people running red lights and/or speeding is greater then the percentage of police abusing their power.
    Hell on some highways I've driven, everyone is doing at least 10 mph over the speed limit.

    Hey turnabout is fair play

    1. Re:Traffic cams, Red light cams by number17 · · Score: 1

      If you have usage-based insurance the car can report telemetry data itself. They could use the same system to automatically bill you for speeding.

    2. Re:Traffic cams, Red light cams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hey turnabout is fair play

      I don't think that's a very good comparison. People driving around 10 miles an hour over the speed limit aren't acting as paid agents of the state, they're generally just normal citizens going about their private lives. Many people who are being paid to drive around, like truckers and taxi drivers and bus drivers, already do have cameras and other tracking systems on them. It's part of the tradeoff for being paid to do the job.

      No one is suggesting that police should have to wear body cams 24/7, when they're going about their own private business. Only when they're acting as agents of the government.

    3. Re:Traffic cams, Red light cams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except redlight cams have proven to cause more accidents than preventing accidents...

    4. Re:Traffic cams, Red light cams by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      Is that some kind of quantum effect?

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    5. Re:Traffic cams, Red light cams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, its what happens when you create a situation where people fearful of a ticket behave in ways to avoid said ticket that increase their risk of an accident. An example would be slamming in the brakes when approaching a traffic light that has just turned yellow instead of proceeding through the intersection because they couldn't have stopped safely either due to weather conditions (snow, ice, etc) or "improperly" set yellow light times.

    6. Re:Traffic cams, Red light cams by Dan667 · · Score: 1

      totally different. Almost everyone driving a car does not have a mandate to use lethal force if necessary like police. And the goal should be keeping the peace not making the most money from any device that can be put in a public space.

    7. Re:Traffic cams, Red light cams by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Cities have a financial incentive to increase red-light tickets, so they shorten the yellows. Doing this with actual police is expensive, you have to pay them to sit there and write tickets, but cameras don't get overtime and benefits.

    8. Re:Traffic cams, Red light cams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure.
      Sounds good to me.

      The speed regulations and other rules of the road are there for safety and car accidents are one the the larger causes of death in this country. There are certainly cases where the limits are set poorly but reliable enforcement would be the best way to motivate people to get them changed to something more reasonable.

      the status quo where everyone breaks the law and only as many as the police department want to catch to meed funding goals get punished is corrupt and stupid.

  18. Really win-win? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Think a bit more... just the management costs alone for the departments (city/county governments) - storage, cloud storage? Oops some embarrassing but unrelated to a prosecution information gets out to the public. Maybe you acting a fool after a night out, but just told to go home with your friends lands on youtube and you boss sees it. How does the department store, classify, retain and secure the media? Let's hire someone? no outsource it.... any way it's handled costs $$

    Hmmm FOIA requests, ok redact the images of the unrelated persons, children, how much media to provide. Let's see we'll need an editing center, equipment.... and people. Say for a small department with 10 officers that's 10 hours of footage a day, oops got to cut out the time spent in the bathroom stall, so maybe 9.5 hours times a 48 hour week times 50 weeks that's only a small amount of media to deal with... other issues around filming constantly... you bet.

    Yeah this is all so simple and a win-win. Consider a bit deeper than a simple few quick thoughts.

  19. Ignorance of the law is no excuse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just have it required. The cop can easily check, and they usually go in mob handed and with dashcams too. So there's no reason to suppose that all 8 cams went offline so disasterously for the proof of police innocence.

    And the cops can stop bloody demanding that they stop being filmed too. If they're worried that the images will be edited because they're out of police control (which is also why you shouldn't trust just the police cams: the police are public people too), they can be safe that their cam will catch the "real truth".

  20. Best Practices. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While I see the necessity of more oversight I'm concerned of this spilling over into other jobs. I would for instance be uncomfortable in my career (as a high end, male, escort for lonely super models and *definitely* nothing involving beating on databases all day) to have people analyze and review my every word and move.

    Unless of course a mandatory "Yakety Sax" soundtrack combined with a 2x speed increase became the standard for all body cam video.

  21. "high-profile shootings" - LOL. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who made them "high-profile"? Why, the Jewish media, which wants to allow non-whites to commit endless crimes against unarmed white people...

    1. Re:"high-profile shootings" - LOL. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF are you smoking? You do realize that most Jewish people are also white?

  22. Most Police want them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Personally the Police I have talked too want them. They can help replay conflicts and identify many people that a police officer may only have time to get a quick look to identify a suspect. It also documents assault and a person demeanor with police. It makes a police officers job a whole lot easier to be able to have solid evidence in video then relying on witnesses. The people that should be afraid are the ones who like to challenge authority and claim police brutality. Its just like those who hate any kind of public camera. They are not worried about privacy, they just do not want to be caught doing something wrong.
    No doubt the camera's on police help eliminate the gray area of physical contact with subjects. Its going to help both ways in weeding out bad cops, and putting away bad people.

    1. Re:Most Police want them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No doubt the camera's on police help eliminate the gray area of physical contact with subjects. Its going to help both ways in weeding out bad cops, and putting away bad people.

      Please explain how this is going to "weed out" bad cops? The police are continually getting caught perjuring themselves on the stand and the courts and DAs repeatedly REFUSE to prosecute. Even when shown cell phone video from multiple sources proving that the cop is lying.

  23. Well, it IS /. afterall... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work for a police agency that currently uses dash cameras and is researching body cameras.

    There is a great deal of bullshit on this post. While every libertarian neck beard swears up and down that cops are all deleting video as fast as they can, we see the opposite. These aren't just some commodity cameras that the officer has to pop the SD card out of and then copy the files to his desktop. Camera's are activated automatically for most events and are coded to detect alteration. The only interaction the officer has with the end product is tagging. The evidence tag placed on the video determines the retention policy and even un-tagged video is held much longer than necessary. The problem we face is officers tagging EVERYTHING as permanent save.

    You see it as policing the cops, the cops see it as CYA. I also work in a state where the DA will refuse to prosecute many crimes if there isn't video. The cops WANT more video; not less.

    1. Re:Well, it IS /. afterall... by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      It is /. as you say... :)

  24. If they have nothing to hide.... by richardkettle4 · · Score: 0

    *ducks*

  25. Public access is the issue by P1h3r1e3d13 · · Score: 1

    public gets access to some much-desired accountability.

    The problem is that the public may not have access. In many places, the video is only accessible by the police.

  26. 'Murica, fuck yeah!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even on traffic stops, they are worried that the driver could easily be waiting with a gun in their hand. They do not trust anyone.

    I think it's more a statement on society in general. Anyone can be armed and everyone is considered a potential threat.

    'Murica, fuck yeah!! 2A all the way, baby!!!1! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

  27. If the video is to be used as evidence... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1
    ... it should be handled as evidence.

    .
    Since the evidence may be for or against the police, the video should not be collected and archived by the police.

    .
    Otherwise there is always the possibility that video which puts the police in a bad light may have gaps in coverage, or the audio may disappear, or the video itself may be "lost".

    1. Re:If the video is to be used as evidence... by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Who do you think gathers and archives evidence now?

    2. Re:If the video is to be used as evidence... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

      That's the problem.

    3. Re:If the video is to be used as evidence... by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      I am talking about all evidence in any criminal investigation. Right now all evidence, be it video or otherwise, is in the hands of the police. Where do you think it should be held?

  28. FTFY by jklovanc · · Score: 1

    Being glib, but every time the media reports some problem with the police (over hear at any rate), they release a statement, then a week later, it turns out that the police lied to try to save their own skins.

    That is called selection bias.

    1. Re:FTFY by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      That is called selection bias.

      Being in the UK, we get very, very few news stories about the police killing anyone. So OK, it's not every time, that was hyperbole. It is however distressingly frequent. Not only that, when they lie blatantly and get caught, there are never any reprecussions.

      Looking at the list of people killed by the police, they've been caught blatantly lying in at least 10% of the cases (that I can remember off the top of my head). That's a rather high fraction.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  29. Science suggests skepticism about cameras. by hey! · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The body camera can show what actually happened, at least from one perspective at least, and that's good. I think all cops should wear them, subject to developing reasonable rules for privacy etc. But they can't show you what the officer thinks is happening, or the contextual information that led him to that. Those things are critical to judging whether the cop's actions are justifiable or criminal. A cop can shoot an innocent person because of bad information. Likewise a cop can shoot someone where the circumstances justify it, but without knowing that. In that case it's likely nothing will be done on the "no harm, no foul" theory, but you'd still have a rogue cop running around.

    Take the case of the shooting of John Crawford III, who was gunned down by a police team in a Walmart. When this happens we get dueling, simplistic narratives: if Crawford was shot it must have been because he was a thug... Or, if you prefer, he was shot because the cops are evil racists. When the video came out the discrepancies between the police accounts and what you could see for yourself strengthened the left wing construction of the scenario: the police are evil, lying racists. Without denying the existence of racist, lying cops, this interpretation of events doesn't explain why the cops would want to shoot a harmless stranger in the first place. Yes, you can't rule out utter depravity, but if you consider all the circumstances the more likely explanation is that they were primed to expect an active shooter. Recent science can explain pretty well how someone can perceive what he expects to perceive, although of course explanation is not the same as proof. What an explanation should do is raise doubts about interpretation.

    The Walmart videos essentially show the cops showing up and shooting Crawford immediately; there is no time for any of the things the police report happening to happen. Lying is the obvious explanation, but this could also be the product of a phenomenon many people have experienced personally: the brain's subjective experience of time is highly elastic. When you think you are in danger things seem to move in slow motion. That can interact with another, long-known physiological fact about visual perception. Look at your thumbnail at arm's length; that's roughly the area of the fovea centralis, which covers less than 1% of the area of your visual field, but accounts for about 50% of the information your brain receives. A few degrees to either side of that area and you can't tell the difference between a man and a woman, an adult and a child, or zucchini and a hand gun. But you don't experience looking at the world through a narrow tube, you experience it in super-widescreen high definition. That high def picture doesn't actually exist, it's constructed by your brain as your eye flits around the scene -- a fact exploited by magicians to create illusions. When your sense of time slows down, the picture doesn't go blurry; you still get the super-widescreen high def picture, but most of it consists of what you expect to be there. I expect this is what happened in the shooting of Tamir Rice. The officers perceived an adult male with a real gun, and perceived themselves having plenty of time for a good look, and were mistaken in every respect.

    Controversial videos often tend to discount the ready-made "blacks are thugs" explanation, although sometimes we may be missing some key context. But what about the "cops are racists" explanation? Well, there's no doubt the police have their share of racist psychopaths, but the problem with jumping to that conclusion is that when you're wrong you end up leaving the underlying problem in place. That includes institutional racism, which by definition is impersonal. The problem stop-and-frisk, arrest quotas, and other attempts to employ police as behavioral control agents is that they lead to conflict and hostility becoming the routine mo

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    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  30. Flash mob by jklovanc · · Score: 1

    Lets have a flash mob of people trying to record ever interaction with police. All it would take is a small scuffle to change a traffic stop into a mob scene.

    1. Re:Flash mob by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the road pirates would be less motivated to make as many traffic stops. So yeah, let's have it!

  31. Little Brother by tgrigsby · · Score: 1

    If "Big Brother" is the state monitoring the citizens for evidence of misconduct, could the citizens' ability to monitor the state actors for evidence of misconduct be referred to as "Little Brother"?

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    *** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
  32. Age of Accountability by tgrigsby · · Score: 1

    This is great and all, but I'm waiting for the Age of Law Enforcement Accountability, where cases against police officers for excessive force resulting in death or gross injury no longer go through a grand jury and instead proceed straight to a jury trial. Until the District Attorneys stop fighting on behalf of the police to get them off in cases that clearly constitute murder, body cams are progress but not a solution.

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    *** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
  33. Expect by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    We can all expect a lot of sudden EMP-like interference that wipes out the most important parts of the cop *and* citizens' cam recordings.

    Not that it will have _anything_ to do with the little black box in the cops' other pocket.

  34. Cops face no consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wake me up when cops actually face consequences for abuse of power and misuse of force.

    What's going to happen is we'll see bodycam footage used to exonerate cops when they record people attacking them, but in cases where cops abused their authority, the bodycam footage will not be made available even in court.

    1. Re:Cops face no consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Time to wake up.

      Go to your local sheriff's office, ask for it. What you're looking for is public record, things are only "made available" in court if the state or defense wants them to be, outside of court it's public record and available to literally anyone who asks for it.

  35. Arizona cops: Lying Thugs with Tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This technology only exists for the benefit of the police gang of the United States. From my first-hand experience in AZ, here are the 2 big things wrong with it:

    1. The cams are easily switched on or off via a toggle button and there are no repercussions for disabling the cam at key moments
    2. The footage is stored locally, never sees cloud storage or any sort of formal oversight.
    3. Footage requests are sent directly to the officer. He/she may choose to not answer his/her email in a timely fashion, or redact/suppress some of the footage. There is NO oversight or accountability.

    I have first-hand witnessed this. It is a very eye-opening experience to see a prosecutor help a police officer suppress footage.

    Story:

    Not too long ago, I pulled into a parking spot next to a police officer and my right tire chirped. As I exited my vehicle, my eyes focused on the receiving-end of a young police officer's Glock. After he arrested me on charges of reckless driving, read me my Miranda rights and tossed me in his car, he spoke with his buddies who had arrived. They try to question me (apparently unaware I was read my rights, unconstitutional), and then they decide to search my vehicle. They find an unloaded revolver and no bullets, and tack on a charge for posession of a deadly weapon, failure to admit.

    On the arrest report, the officer states that "the entire encounter was captured on film". Fast forward 3 months, my attorney has only received 45 seconds of footage, the part where the officer has his weapon drawn (but not before; I wonder how the officer turned on the camera with 2 hands on his weapon? oh wait, it was already on). In email, the police officer claims this is all of the footage. My attorney thinks there is more. 3 months later, after 6 more requests, a rather impatient prosecutor threatens repercussions for spoliation of evidence. Another 2 minutes 30 seconds shows up in the LE Dropbox. This snippet has redacted audio. A legal document, signed by the prosecutor, stating that the officer did not capture any other footage, arrives in my attorney's email.

    The encounter was 10 minutes in duration. The first video is with the Glock raised. The second video begins after I am in the cop car, doesn't capture any of our conversation or the vehicle search. Was this excessive use of deadly force? Maybe. Did I deserve a reckless driving charge? Maybe. Was questioning me about my vehicle after I was read my rights unconstitutional? Yes.

    The only time we see "leaked" bodycam video is when somebody dies. Officers are still free to abuse the system, as long as they don't pull the trigger.

  36. This is why we need them by kanibalv · · Score: 1
  37. The criminal police unions want by ToddInSF · · Score: 1

    to make it so that cops get to write their reports AFTER viewing the cam footage. This is unacceptable, and indicative of the rampant police corruption in the USA.

    Cams are not a cure-all, not even close. Cops will just turn them off or block them as needed; they are currently using them as an excuse to collect outrageous amounts of funds from poor people by using the excuse that they "no longer have discretion".

    There is a war going on in this country, and the local PD's are part of that war on the poor. The problem is systemic and involves the DA's and prosecutors and dirty judges, and people that profit from the prison system itself.

    The USA has a greater percentage of it's population in jails and prisons than ANY other nation; we are the harassment of the world. And none of us are any safer as a result.