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EU Companies Can Monitor Employees' Private Conversations While At Work (softpedia.com)

An anonymous reader writes: A recent ruling of the European Court of Human Rights has granted EU companies the right to monitor and log private conversations that employees have at work while using the employer's devices. The ruling came after a Romanian was fired for using Yahoo Messenger back in 2007, while at work, to have private conversations with his girlfriend. He argued that his employer was breaking his right for privacy and correspondence. Both Romanian and European courts disagreed.

19 of 127 comments (clear)

  1. It's your company's equipment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want to argue with your girlfriend, use your own cellphone. Jesus.

    1. Re:It's your company's equipment by greenfruitsalad · · Score: 3, Interesting

      warning: may seem sexist but it's my experience

      in my experience, it was always the women who used company email for private communication. as a former admin of such things, it annoyed the hell out of me. whenever a new employee took over an old mailbox (with a new name alias), they had to (for years) deal with stupid emails about - Mindy's wedding, Georgina's ugly baby, meet me for coffee beautiful, my period is late, etc. i never understood why they did it. they were always told to keep their mailboxes in a condition that would allow other people to use them in their absence, yet without exception, they treated their mailboxes like personal property and cursed me to hell for letting other people access their emails. i hated that job. people... what a bunch of bastards.

    2. Re:It's your company's equipment by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Interesting. And would you feel the same way about someone who was fired for having AIDS because they were talking with their doctor on the only phone available to them, the one in the office?

      Well, that's kind of a ridiculous argument, a non-sequitur. Employers by and large do not care if you use office equipment to do a call to your wife or doctor, or to do online banking during your lunch break at your cubicle. They care when people continuously abuse it - constantly chatting with your girlfriend, or for watching pr0n, or using the printer constantly to print brochures for your on-the-side job.

      Things like that. That is what both rulings are about. But hey, feel free to believe your slippery-slope hypothetical of one person not having a cell phone and having to use the one and only office phone for a life-n-death event intercepted by the mythical pointy-haired chupacabra boss actually applies to this case.

  2. Well Duh! by thechemic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    9 years later, we have a court ruling on common sense.

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    1. Re:Well Duh! by killkillkill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If they liked the guy's work they wouldn't have fired him. It was probably only a contributing factor and a convenient reason to put on the HR form.

    2. Re:Well Duh! by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 4, Informative

      You can't even be bothered to read the submission above?

      The court case wasn't if he was fired for "wasting time", it was whether the company has the right to monitor what happens on their own computer systems.

      As for how much time he wasted, for all you know he spent half the day talking to his girlfriend. I doubt it was simply a quick 5-minute chat during a mid-morning break.

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    3. Re:Well Duh! by phishybongwaters · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Because you agreed to an acceptable use policy when using that companies equipment and services, this includes but is not limited to, your workstation and NETWORK. Sorry, you already agreed to whatever terms they decide to implement. You don't watch porn on your work machine and network, do you? You don't pirate software on your companies computer do you? Why? Because it's morally objectionable, or more to the point, because you know it's wrong and an improper use of the equipment and services. The only person complaining about this is the person wanting to get paid to sext and snapchat.

    4. Re:Well Duh! by kelemvor4 · · Score: 3, Informative

      How is it common sense that it's allowed to record and log a private conversation without prior consent? Even call centers have to let you know you are being recorded, why can an employer do it without consent?

      Company equipment or not, I don't think it's ok to record my conversation without my consent or knowledge.

      If it's in my contract, fine. I signed that and it's now with my consent.

      If my employer doesn't want me to use the equipment for private conversations, let me know or fire me. Don't just violate my rights.

      Court or not, this is unacceptable in my opinion.

      The call center isn't notifying their employee that the conversation is being monitored. That's a given. They're notifying the "customer" on the other end of the line that the conversation is being monitored. It's not forced on you, you can find another job where you are not provided computers and telephones. Then you won't have to worry about it. For example, if you get a job digging ditches, they probably won't be monitoring your shovel.

  3. Monitor by Thanshin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is it enough to RTFA to discover whether he was fired for the having non work related conversations during work or for the actual content of those conversations?

    Because I see some difference between monitoring the activity and monitoring the content.

    1. Re:Monitor by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 4, Informative

      I just read the first link above, and it seems to be just the activity itself, not specifically any "inappropriate" content such as phone-sex.

      But it also didn't say how much of the workday he spent talking to his girlfriend. I would assume it was quite a bit, since he went out of his way to avoid the employer's messenger account, and used his own which he figured was safe from monitoring. If it was simply a message here and there, why fire him? It was probably dozens of messages all day long.

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    2. Re:Monitor by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      He was using a company provided email account to discuss his STDs with his girlfriend. The company policy was not to use the company email account for personal business, and it was in his contract. They asked him if he was using it for private use, he said no, they checked and found he was so fired him. He complained that it was an intrusion on his right to privacy (which is a human right in the EU), but the court felt that as it was a company computer and email account he couldn't expect privacy.

      It's all down to the use of his employer's property.

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  4. Wait... by EmeraldBot · · Score: 5, Informative

    Before everybody gets in a big huff, this applies only to devices the employer owns and lets employees use, not personal devices employees bring to work. The title here is slanted and a little misleading...

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    1. Re:Wait... by EzInKy · · Score: 4, Informative

      That too was addressed in the ruling. From TFA:

      "The ruling also said that, from now onwards, companies should also explain and notify employees if they monitor and log all their Internet activities, and they should also get consent from the employee in writing."

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    2. Re:Wait... by phishybongwaters · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well you could, and I do, argue this extends to the network, so if you are on your personal device but using THEIR network, the ruling still applies. That said, I really doubt this gives them the right to break encryption or demand the keys. It's not the content of the discussion really, it's about the wasted time they got paid for.

  5. That, and with contractual agreement not to use th by demon+driver · · Score: 5, Informative

    The information presented here is, indeed, grossly miseading. There is no such thing as an employer's right to monitor private communications in the EU; on the contrary, at leastmin some European countries, like, say, Germany, illegitimately monitoring an employee's private communocation may actually land someone in jail.

  6. Don't be an idiot. by penguinoid · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Don't use your company's email or other stuff for personal business. It's unprofessional, and you might get your personal communications subpoenaed should your company be involved in a court case.

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  7. Re:That, and with contractual agreement not to use by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Most international and US domestic employees include clauses in the employee contract that explicitly permit company monitoring of content on work owned or devices, including work owned telephones and networks. There is effectively no "private communication" on your corporate laptop or machines you use for work.

  8. Misreported by CAPSLOCK2000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    All reports miss an important part.
    Nobody went out to look at this guys private messages. During the course of an investigation into his performance at work some private messages were discovered. He argued that this alone was a violation of his privacy. The judge decided that the employer did the right thing. The employer was not intentionally looking for private messages and he did not read them when he discovered they were of a private nature.

    This is not a cart-blanche to spy on employee's.

  9. Misleading headline by Kilobug · · Score: 4, Informative

    As some already reported, this is a highly misleading headlines.

    1. It's not EU, but ECHR, so much wider (it includes non-EU countries such as Russia or Turkey).

    2. The ECHR sets a minimal amount of human rights protection, not a maximal one - ECHR saying "we don't have any objection about it" doesn't mean it's legal in all ECHR countries, national government can pass higher levels of protection if they want.

    3. The ruling itself doesn't say "it's all fine to spy on employees in general", it said that in that specific case it's fine - it was a work mail account (not a private one), ...

    I advise you to read http://modulus.isonomia.net/la... for example, that gives a more detailed analysis on the ruling and reporting of it.