Slashdot Mirror
More People In Europe Are Dying Than Are Being Born (phys.org)
jones_supa writes: More people in Europe are dying than are being born, according to a new report co-authored by a Texas A&M University demographer. In contrast, births exceed deaths, by significant margins, in Texas and elsewhere in the United States, with few exceptions. The researchers find that in Europe, deaths exceeded births in most of the counties of Germany, Hungary, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria and the Czech Republic, as well as in Sweden and the Baltic States. Further south, natural decrease is found occurring in the majority of the counties of Greece, Portugal and Italy. More births than deaths (natural increase) is widespread in Ireland, Cyprus, Iceland, Lichtenstein and Luxembourg. "Natural decrease is much more common in Europe than in the U.S because its population is older, fertility rates are lower and there are fewer women of child-bearing age," the researchers explain. "Natural decrease is a major policy concern because it drains the demographic resilience from a region diminishing its economic viability and competitiveness."
I guess this is how the long term "revenge" for the crusades will happen. If the Muslim populations get high enough, they can vote in the changes to the laws and the old world cultures will fade.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
We have too many humans on this planet already, too much trash and waste. For once we aren't reproducing like a disease. Keep it up europe
Actually, you need far less people today to produce more work than were needed 100 years ago. Many people are just plain useless for today's society. Less people is the opportunity to have less useless people, that is less angry dudes that don't have a clue of what to do with their life. Unemployment will eventually back down. Overall happiness will probably increase.
Video of some good progressive thrash music
Irish and italians were humans, not barbaric worshippers of a pedophile death cult thats hell bent on spreading like a cancer and killing the host societies from within.
Seriously, the difference between the US and Italian / Irish cultures is nothing compared to the difference between Europeans and Arabs / Africans.
I don't want to suggest that Muslims in Europe cannot or will not assimilate, but the Irish and even the Italians had more similarities to the population in the US at the time than the Muslims do with the Europeans now. And there was a great amount of both interest and motivation in assimilating back then because no one cared much whether cultures were being oppressed or not, so you assimilated or you failed to thrive.
Today, there's both larger cultural differences, mixed with more tolerance of other cultures which has the unfortunate side-effect of making it easier to resist assimilation.
While I can't really make a distinction of what culture is "better", I do know that mixing cultures which are resistant to intermixing and assimilation is a recipe for serious civil strife. That's a serious danger for the future of Europe if they can't find some way to cope with the influx peacefully.
Are you being serious?
The differences between the Italian, Irish, German and Scandinavian immigrants who came to the US in the late 1800s and early 1900s and the prevailing American culture at the time was quite minimal compared to what we're seeing today in Europe.
Those immigrants to the US were mainly all Christians, even if they did have minor differences with their beliefs and how they practiced their faiths. Today we see those entering Europe from the Middle East, North Africa, and other hellish regions coming in with a very, very different set of religious beliefs compared to the culture they're entering.
Even linguistically there were relatively minor differences. Most Irish spoke English. The Germanic and Scandinavian languages actually aren't that much different from English, either. Even Italian isn't that far from English. All of these languages use essentially the same alphabet. Many of these European immigrants to the US were able to pick up English very rapidly, and become part of American society. Again, that's very different from what's happening in Europe, where the new arrivals typically don't have any experience with the native language of the countries they're entering, and show no willingness to learn German, or French, or Dutch, or Italian.
Yes, cultures will blend when they're very similar to begin with, and the people entering the new culture are willing to adapt.
That's exactly what we aren't seeing with these new arrivals to Europe! They're very culturally different, they're very religiously different, they're very linguistically different, and many of them don't give a fuck about integrating into the prevailing societies that they're entering into. So we see them ghettoizing themselves and culturally not blending in at all. Worst of all, we're seeing these traits being passed down generation after generation.
That's why there's so little hope for the future: these migrants to Europe don't want to live in Europe. They just want to escape the hellholes they're originally from. They don't want to become part of the culture that so warmly and generously welcomed them.
you don't know which culture is "better"? you may be a victim of political correctness. i'm not so let me help you a bit.
the one that doesn't believe in killing and raping the infidels is better.
the one that believes woman are equal to men is better.
the one that believes in not killing homo sexuals is better.
the list goes on, but it always comes back to western culture is better!
Except most Chinatowns in the U.S. are where non-Chinese people go to eat exotic food, not a separate city-within-a-city where any non-Chinese who enter will be beaten (or worse).
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Do you actually live in Europe? Integration does not work. We have whole suburbs of "insert immigrant nationality" because they don't integrate. Even politicians have to admit that multiculturalism failed. The cultures are just too different and there are far too many at the same time.
Except when it does. If you have a large, secular society that orients more along the lines of politics than race, culture, or religion, than over time immigrants and more importantly the children of immigrants become part of the larger society. Some people are real jerks to outsiders no matter where they are or what culture they join--the idea is over generations to try to get their kids to be more and more accepting of outsiders, to be part of the larger community.
Integration is not an experiment that succeeds or fails. It's life, and people and even entire populations change across as little as fifty years. That explains everybody's racist uncle.
"Natural decrease is a major policy concern because it drains the demographic resilience from a region diminishing its economic viability and competitiveness." What a silly argument, given that productivity and and GDP are still rising rapidly in Europe.
Automation is accelerating with AI finally becoming a real thing. Economic output is rising in absolute terms and on a per-person basis. What this should mean is a rising standard of living. But in the US all the benefits of per capita productivity are going to the "owner class". This is the stuff of revolutions.
As long as there are intelligent, healthy people who are unemployed, the birth rate has not fallen enough.
"He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
Unless that culture results in lower birthrates, then the killing, raping, misogynistic homophobic culture is better - in an evolutionary sense.
Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
Between the death of Mohammed and the time of the First Crusade, the following happened:
1. The Caliphate invaded and destroyed the Persian Empire. [Much conversion by the sword of Zoroastrians]
2. The Caliphate took control of over 50% of the Byzantine Empire. [Mass conversion by the sword of Christians]
3. The Caliphate conquered the Iberian peninsula and attempted to conquer the Merovingian Empire in modern day France.
4. All throughout that period and well into the Renaissance, Muslim pirates and raiders took huge numbers of slaves from Southern Europe and coastal territories as far as Iceland.
So no, not revenge. Just a series of efforts by the Muslim world to expand rather violently.
And after that period we have the annexation of much of Eastern Europe, Lepanto, Vienna, need I go on? Anyone who goes "oh noes, teh Crusades" about anyone other than the poor Orthodox Greeks is an ignoramus.
Just for the record, citing from recent news: "With 43 million people employed and fewer than 2 million unemployed, according to new data from the national statistics office, Germany’s active workforce is now more robust than it’s been for decades."
Those who cry for more babies are mostly those who'd like to hire more cheaply.
The more people you invite, particularly when it's a richer country inviting poorer people, the more funding is needed for social programs just to keep the status quo. The folks who pay into those programs don't care for them (paying more for no improvements), and recipients from those programs don't want to risk the programs being reduced to help compensate for the influx. Jobs rarely if ever increase by as much as 1:1 for every immigrant. The economy can't grow if the immigration program outpaces any gains.
Frankly, the governments these people are fleeing from should be held to a higher standard. Poor people don't move just because they're poor, but because they're oppressed and/or have no opportunity. Oppression is a direct result of bad government. Lack of opportunity is typically a problem of poor economic or social decisions at the government level. (I say this not because I know the right answer, but just to point out that all this "blame" being placed on the country of asylum is really misdirected and should first be placed on the country the refugees are fleeing.)
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
You think muslims around the world are all part of some grand conspiracy to 'take revenge' for the crusades? No, they're just people who see the much greater opportunities and wealth available in European countries compared to the shitholes they live in, and make the rational decision to move there for personal gain.
As for the 'decline' of Europe, they may be decreasing in number, sure, but they are definitely increasing in wealth (positive economic growth) with the effect that wealth and power is becoming concentrated in the hands of fewer individuals. Raw population size is a poor measure of the well-being of a country, otherwise India and China would be the best places to live.
A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
But those were economic immigrants and the reason they didn't integrate was lack of education; the current migrants in Europe have an ideological reason for migration and by said ideology are raising their children not to integrate because their ideology states that the natives should integrate their customs and religion. Immigrant muslims in Europe have been around for at least 1 if not 2 generations (first gulf war and before that) and have by and far not integrated at all in European culture; they are migrants in the same fashion Europeans were "economics migrants" to the "New World" in the 1400-1600's.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
This. There is a difference between immigration and diaspora. Immigrants are typically very open minded members of their society - they are looking for new opportunities because their own society at home is holding them back.
What we have in Europe right now is a diaspora - people from a totally foreign culture forced to live with another. Of course, one can argue that the refugees are in Europe by their own will, but the economic and social hardships in their own countries is so bad, that I would consider this a diaspora.
The political correctness of the hosts will allow the new foreign culture not to assimilate, and the children of these foreigners will end up outsiders in their own country. At least when there was conscription army in Europe, young males were forcefully mingled with other members of the society. Nowadays, young males are left isolated, exploited and desperate in their own ghettos, ripe for extremist brainwashing centered around their foreign culture and ethnicity.
That's because the USA (and Canada) are blessed by a great filter called the Atlantic Ocean, which lets through people who
a) Passed the immigration criteria for work/residence/background check
b) Can afford a transatlantic ticket and can sustain themselves after becoming a resident
It would be natural that the more westernized immigrants would be coming over.
That does not appear to be the case in Europe. Closer proximity and lower risk of making the land and sea voyages does not filter out the "cream of the crop", like it does in the Americas.
They used to be a separate city where non-Chinese would not enter. People used to complain that Chinese, Italians, whoever were not properly integrating. By which they meant abandoning their own culture and embracing the mayonaisse of American "culture". It's only over time that those other cultures became mixed in better, but the US embraced (badly) parts of their culture instead. We even bitched about the Irish and you can't get any whiter than that.
The melting pot concept is stupid, it just doesn't work to expect immigrants to abandon the old and become clones. There was too much effort spent in the past on forced conformity in many places in US and elsewhere; forcing children to go to English speaking schools and punishing them when their native language was used so that it becomes forgotten over time (most native American languages are functionally dead, children who can't communicate with their grandparents, etc).
Population growth and reduction (in this case) is NOT the issue. The issue is that economies have been created and will only work based on population (and subsequent sales) growth; this is why immigration is often "used" to keep a countries population growing. As soon as sales reduce the model falls over. A re-think of the way global economies operate is what is needed.
Not necessarily. We've only had sub-replacement birth rates for a relatively short time, and AFAIK nobody's proposed significant action to make motherhood more attractive. The population shift will also be very slow, and there's plenty of time for cultural assimilation. Western civilization is very resilient.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
The melting pot concept is stupid
Yeah, except your own post demonstrates that it has worked just fine in the U.S.:
They used to be a separate city where non-Chinese would not enter.
Emphasis mine
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
It simply doesn't work here in Europe with the Muslim immigrants. There is a foreign, rich country investing billions in converting Muslims here to the most conservative forms of Islam: salafism. And they are pretty successful. 5 years ago I ended in the wrong region and was being attacked by young Muslim kids who should have been in school. They managed to destroy my tires and I had to run for my life. These were not immigrant nor kids from immigrants. They were kids from kids from kids from immigrants. Of course in every generation one of the parents was an imported husband or wife to keep the purity of their religion as pure as possible.
There are large groups of Muslims who simply do not want to integrate, and it is hard to distinguish them from the 'good' Muslims because politic correctness forbids white people to criticize some groups of Muslims who often where not loved in their own country (the so called mountain people).
I think it means, if this trend keeps up, that EU culture, the Germans, the French, etc....will possibly start to disappear, being replaced with the Muslims that are pouring in,
Same Bollocks I've been hearing for ages. They said the same things when the Indians poured into Britain and Australia... Guess what, they've become part of our culture, same with various Asian cultures (Veit and Indo in Australia), Greek culture.
In fact, Australia treated Greeks pretty badly when they first started coming over... But they still integrated and are now part of Australian history and culture.
People like you have no clue. You've spouted the same nonsense for decades and every single time been proved wrong. You're less credible and more annoying that the "THEY TURK UR JERBS" crowd.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Not 100%, but integrated enough that people with Chinese ancestors can cooperate with and trust those with Italian ancestry.
-- Support a free market in the field of government
That's a bit extreme.
The thing is that all Europeans, Muslim Arab ethnics as well as native European humanists/Christians tend to have far fewer kids then their neighbors.
And while cultural change is inevitable in an immigrant society, you generally don't get wholesale replacement. You get a new assimilated culture that takes most of it's traditions from the original, while gaining some from the new guys (ie: the US is still basically an English, Protestant country, despite the fact nobody admits to being ethnically English and we've borrowed Halloween/Christmas Trees/Italian food etc. from newcomers).
The West Indians came to the UK. They were mistreated, but they engaged and they assimilated.
The Indians came to the UK. They weren't treated well, they often retained their own culture but over time the barriers have dropped and they largely embraced British culture.
The muslims came to the UK. They demand British culture change. They demand Sharia law. They mutilate their children. They use violence to pursue their archaic superstitious beliefs and try to impose them on others.
Sorry but this is a different scenario. Some muslims are engaging, assimilating, embracing British values, finding a balance between their religion and the culture of their country.
Too many aren't, and are showing no signs of wanting to.
You wrote 11 paragraphs on how islamic culture is being forced upon you yet not even a single mention of where you live... yeah I'm calling bullshit unless you actually provide useful info that backs up your experience
A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.