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Apple May Owe $8 Billion To the EU After Tax Ruling (bloomberg.com)
Robotron23 writes: An investigation by the EU Commission may make Apple liable for up to $8 billion in back taxes. Bloomberg Intelligence estimates Apple has paid only 1.8% tax on profits between 2004 and 2012 — this ruling increases their liability to 12.5%. This decision comes hot on the heels of a tax avoidance settlement Apple reached with Italy last month for $347 million.
Bummer!
And now Ireland gets punished by having to accept those 8 billion dollars of back taxes, that will teach them.
Great deal apple managers!
Greek pensioners and the debtor countries still have to pay a high price for the tax hole your evasion created.
Tim Cook in my opinion is killing Apple. I would not be surprised given all the negative stock pricing, the tax evasion issues and the pathetic product evolution. That Tim Cook will eventually be forced out. Tim Cook is the Steve Ballmer of Apple. only Tim Cook is so none inspiring to Apple its not even funny.
http://www.independent.co.uk/n...
"Based on its est reserves & a (conservative) valuation of $10 p barrel, #Aramco cld be worth more than $2.5 tr. 4 times the size of Apple"
They already owe it. Pulling out won't wipe away the debt.
And no, they're not going to pull out of the EU. That'd kill their worldwide market share, driving away quality developers.
No they won't.
Good riddance. That doesnt even scare me the slightest, makes room for others that are willing to pay.
Tim Cook says Apple pays every tax dollar it owes. Maybe the key word is dollar here. He never said Apple pays every euro it owes!
They may owe 8 billion, but what's the chances they'll actually have to pay that? If this were the US, they'd end up just making a settlement for a tiny fraction of that.
Since this is the EU, who actually make more of an effort to hold corporations accountable for their greed, the amount would be comparatively larger, but I still have trouble seeing them extracting the full amount.
For Apple this is like a normal person owing a few hundred dollars in back taxes. Sure, it's annoying, but yawn... life goes on...
... of him shall be much required.
Doesn't seem like Apple is holding up their end of the deal.
...and so is Starbucks, and Amazon. and McDonalds, and Google, and Fiat-Chrysler ... et cetera ad nauseam. I hope they all get to pay billions in back taxes. Tim Cook, Eric Schmidt and the rest of those corporate demigods can regurgitate all the capitalist free market ideological diarrhea they want. As long as I'm paying something like half of what I earn in various taxes, they and their corporations can pay up too. According to Google's 2014 results statement their effective tax rate was 16%, that's a tax rate I can only dream of.
Well at least you can say that $1bn revenue each day is easily met by the US company walmart, and, if you look at absolute numbers, walmart has even more revenue per year than Aramco. But probably 99% of aramco's revenue is net income, while walmart has to pay for the products they sell, and their much higher number of employees (50x as many).
"Based on its est reserves & a (conservative) valuation of $10 p barrel" :rolleyes:
They're comparing one company's total future raw material value to another's present stock value? And you think that's interesting?
The measure in question is the total *possible future value* of the company. Eventually they will run out of oil and be worth nothing. They are estimating total sales between now and then.
In comparison, Apple has nothing to run out of and can continue selling updates to their existing products forever. So by the same measure and definition, Apple's value is infinite.
Infinite >> 2.5 trillion
Apple has, what, $200 billion in the bank? Their quarterly income is what, $50 billion? I'm sure they're quaking in their boots.
Here's the absolute "worst" case scenario for the company: they pay the fine from change they find on the cafeteria floor, and then send out a press release with a mild complaint about it but saying they're happy as long as the money is put to good use. Ireland cuts them a side deal for the inconvenience, and Apple agrees to remain in Cork for the foreseeable future.
So basically zero change whatsoever.
So why doesn't the but-hurt Europeans step up and make their own world-leading corporations and Europe-centric tech news sites? Every time we get this "Oh you're just so America-centric" or "well in Europe we have this and this"... Just shut up with the darn complaining and make your own stuff, or enjoy the ones your complaining about.
Apple May Owe $8 Billion To the EU After Tax Ruling
Sure, they might owe it. They'll probably never get around to having to pay it, though. About 0.1% of that amount should be more enough to pay for the lawyers to keep it tied up in court indefinitely.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
$8 billion is piddly squat next to their profits, and they benefit handsomely from Europe's robust social programs (health care for their employees, education, roads, the Internet, etc, etc).
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
For money earned in the US, the corporate tax rate is ~40% (at least for the Fortune 500 co I work for). That would be a $25B tax bill for Apple on the $64B in net. I'm pretty sure that if Apple ever wants to bring the earnings back to the US, they get joy of paying the difference between the 12.5% and the 40%, but IANAL or CPA. Of course the tax experts and EU law experts here on /. can explain why Apple, Google, and anyone else who has significant earnings in the EU have been using this apparently flawed tax strategy.
While the schadenfreude is strong with this one, I can't help but feel that even if Apple pays the $8B, they still got of light as compared to what it would have been in the USA.
I give your paper an F and you will need to repeat Economics 101 next semester.
"well in Europe we have this and this"
The Saudi company is not European.
Their infinite innovator died a few years back. Currently it's back to golden parachute squatters hoping to bail before their lack of innovation loses too much value.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Fuck 'em. Corporations did just fine and dandy paying higher taxes years ago. If Apple doesn't like it, they can move to Somalia.
An honest company would pay 30% of its revenue as tax. And they would not try to trick, as they know without a working state and society they cannot exist. However, all the big companies ignore that, as they do not feel responsible for the mayhem they cause and the effects do not occur immediately. Therefore, like a 2 year old they ruin their surrounding. Unfortunately, there are no parents around to stop them.
just reinforces a previous poster's point about most americans being too dumb to find the next state over on a map let alone another country.
Why will I be left sobbing in the corner? And what the hell makes you think I'm an Apple fan?
Fact is, if Apple tries to avoid paying the debt, it'll find itself paying it anyway, regardless of whether it pulls out of the EU. The EU will find ways.
You're an idiot.
They're comparing one company's total future raw material value to another's present stock value? And you think that's interesting?
Sure. Present stock value is a consensus estimate of the Net Present Value of all future free cash flows of a company. In both cases you are looking at an estimate of the future prospects of the company.
The measure in question is the total *possible future value* of the company.
Correct. That is what is being measured in both cases, albeit with a different measuring stick.
If what Apple did is legal or not, but if it paid only 1.8% tax on its profits that's wrong and it should have to pay more.
Whenever someone comes along whobis better than them, they start goose-stepping. Once it was the Jews, now American tech companies. Europeans are simply livid because for all their vaunted "superior culture" they cannot compete. They are objectively inferior. And that's why each and every European is a Nazi.
[Apple] don't care, they'll never pay and you'll be left sobbing in a corner going "why apple?! why?".
No, I shall be laughing in the open going "Good riddance to Apple!"
Payback for VW
generalizations are fun, we can all participate!
The intention has always been to borrow until the debt is high enough that you default. Then start over.
You can accellerate this by invading the countries that you owe money.
Best news I've read all week!
As far as economics go it was a slam dunk. If there is room for complaint, it is in the area of communication; there are other even stronger refutations that might have been used. ;)
And Apple isn't the "world's largest company." But the attempted demonstration using Aramco was a total failure. Hyundai would be a much better example, with about 70 times the market capitalization of Apple. Apple does tend to have the world's largest "war chest," because other companies re-invest more of what they're not using. Apple is run by the most elite of the elitists, who are simply more willing to sit on a cash hoard than anybody else. The other big companies are dominated by business people, who look at that money pile the way they look at a sloucher. "Get back to work!"
Facebook benefit from a well educated populace?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
In reality, the EU disagrees and sees Apple as being $8 billion + (interest and penalties) short.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
And Apple isn't the "world's largest company." But the attempted demonstration using Aramco was a total failure. Hyundai would be a much better example, with about 70 times the market capitalization of Apple.
And you just won the price for being the Internet's greatest dummy.
When you take Apple's market caps in US Dollar, and Hyundai's market caps in South Korean Won, then Hyundai's number is 70 times higher. However, one US dollar is worth about 1,200 Won. So when converted to US Dollars, Apple's market caps is about 18 times higher.
In order to get their hands on the $800 billion in Apple Money, the EU is taking this by introducing mini-federal complaint cases which when summed together at a later date will constitute the coup de grace to the head of Apple CEO "Queer GOD" Timmy Cook and LGBTQ Apple.
Let us pray for a quick death.
Ha ah
Fact is, if Apple tries to avoid paying the debt, it'll find itself paying it anyway, regardless of whether it pulls out of the EU. The EU will find ways.
You're probably talking to someone who believes Apple isn't going to pay $8 billion because it has more power than the EU. And it has more power than the EU because it has more money. Seriously, that's the argument I keep hearing.
generalizations are fun, we can all participate!
All but the Americans, they are too dumb.
Besides Pulling out has always been considered as the least effective form of ahem .. debt minimization ...
If that's the argument you keep hearing then you're talking to a lot of people who don't understand basic economics.
Apple has a big market cap yes. But is by far the largest company in the world. I'd say with Assets instead of Market Cap being the decider. Chinese Banks reign as the most powerful in the world. Apple sort of sits in there near the oil companies. Just like any massive multinational company but nothing like the banks though. I think some of the largest banks have about 3 trillion on their ledgers. And of course oil companies still stick it out over AAPL because of their asset sizes even when Oil isn't doing well (which could very well change soon).
Nothing to be ashamed of though the company is doing well. At least 2x as solid as Alphabet or MSFT stocks.
And yeah the EU vs AAPL. Silly argument! Taking on the EU means taking on the ECB which is a central bank. Therefore they have direct control over monetary policy for the Euro. And is what drives the entire argument to be devoid of any rationale. Because you need Euros to trade and stock shelves with iPhones. Anything done untowards the EU from Apple. Is akin to playing chess except the EU is the chess board and Apple has to simply "play by the rules" or "don't play" motive. And the "don't play" motive will translate into worse losses for the company.
Good catch, but that is actually that is just Hyundai Motor Company. It is less than 6x once you include the rest of the Hyundai Group.
However, when you compare revenue then Hyundai is bigger than Apple. And if you use the 10 year average, it isn't even close.
Last I knew, back mid-summer I think, Apple had over $200 billion in reserve. What the hell!?
You don't amass that much, that quickly, without fucking someone along the way - and I'm not talking about their customers.