Slashdot Mirror
Apple May Owe $8 Billion To the EU After Tax Ruling (bloomberg.com)
Robotron23 writes: An investigation by the EU Commission may make Apple liable for up to $8 billion in back taxes. Bloomberg Intelligence estimates Apple has paid only 1.8% tax on profits between 2004 and 2012 — this ruling increases their liability to 12.5%. This decision comes hot on the heels of a tax avoidance settlement Apple reached with Italy last month for $347 million.
Bummer!
And now Ireland gets punished by having to accept those 8 billion dollars of back taxes, that will teach them.
Great deal apple managers!
Greek pensioners and the debtor countries still have to pay a high price for the tax hole your evasion created.
http://www.independent.co.uk/n...
"Based on its est reserves & a (conservative) valuation of $10 p barrel, #Aramco cld be worth more than $2.5 tr. 4 times the size of Apple"
Tim Cook says Apple pays every tax dollar it owes. Maybe the key word is dollar here. He never said Apple pays every euro it owes!
They may owe 8 billion, but what's the chances they'll actually have to pay that? If this were the US, they'd end up just making a settlement for a tiny fraction of that.
Since this is the EU, who actually make more of an effort to hold corporations accountable for their greed, the amount would be comparatively larger, but I still have trouble seeing them extracting the full amount.
... of him shall be much required.
Doesn't seem like Apple is holding up their end of the deal.
...and so is Starbucks, and Amazon. and McDonalds, and Google, and Fiat-Chrysler ... et cetera ad nauseam. I hope they all get to pay billions in back taxes. Tim Cook, Eric Schmidt and the rest of those corporate demigods can regurgitate all the capitalist free market ideological diarrhea they want. As long as I'm paying something like half of what I earn in various taxes, they and their corporations can pay up too. According to Google's 2014 results statement their effective tax rate was 16%, that's a tax rate I can only dream of.
Well at least you can say that $1bn revenue each day is easily met by the US company walmart, and, if you look at absolute numbers, walmart has even more revenue per year than Aramco. But probably 99% of aramco's revenue is net income, while walmart has to pay for the products they sell, and their much higher number of employees (50x as many).
"Based on its est reserves & a (conservative) valuation of $10 p barrel" :rolleyes:
They're comparing one company's total future raw material value to another's present stock value? And you think that's interesting?
The measure in question is the total *possible future value* of the company. Eventually they will run out of oil and be worth nothing. They are estimating total sales between now and then.
In comparison, Apple has nothing to run out of and can continue selling updates to their existing products forever. So by the same measure and definition, Apple's value is infinite.
Infinite >> 2.5 trillion
Apple has, what, $200 billion in the bank? Their quarterly income is what, $50 billion? I'm sure they're quaking in their boots.
Here's the absolute "worst" case scenario for the company: they pay the fine from change they find on the cafeteria floor, and then send out a press release with a mild complaint about it but saying they're happy as long as the money is put to good use. Ireland cuts them a side deal for the inconvenience, and Apple agrees to remain in Cork for the foreseeable future.
So basically zero change whatsoever.
Apple May Owe $8 Billion To the EU After Tax Ruling
Sure, they might owe it. They'll probably never get around to having to pay it, though. About 0.1% of that amount should be more enough to pay for the lawyers to keep it tied up in court indefinitely.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
$8 billion is piddly squat next to their profits, and they benefit handsomely from Europe's robust social programs (health care for their employees, education, roads, the Internet, etc, etc).
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
For money earned in the US, the corporate tax rate is ~40% (at least for the Fortune 500 co I work for). That would be a $25B tax bill for Apple on the $64B in net. I'm pretty sure that if Apple ever wants to bring the earnings back to the US, they get joy of paying the difference between the 12.5% and the 40%, but IANAL or CPA. Of course the tax experts and EU law experts here on /. can explain why Apple, Google, and anyone else who has significant earnings in the EU have been using this apparently flawed tax strategy.
While the schadenfreude is strong with this one, I can't help but feel that even if Apple pays the $8B, they still got of light as compared to what it would have been in the USA.
Their infinite innovator died a few years back. Currently it's back to golden parachute squatters hoping to bail before their lack of innovation loses too much value.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
An honest company would pay 30% of its revenue as tax. And they would not try to trick, as they know without a working state and society they cannot exist. However, all the big companies ignore that, as they do not feel responsible for the mayhem they cause and the effects do not occur immediately. Therefore, like a 2 year old they ruin their surrounding. Unfortunately, there are no parents around to stop them.
Why will I be left sobbing in the corner? And what the hell makes you think I'm an Apple fan?
Fact is, if Apple tries to avoid paying the debt, it'll find itself paying it anyway, regardless of whether it pulls out of the EU. The EU will find ways.
You're an idiot.
They're comparing one company's total future raw material value to another's present stock value? And you think that's interesting?
Sure. Present stock value is a consensus estimate of the Net Present Value of all future free cash flows of a company. In both cases you are looking at an estimate of the future prospects of the company.
The measure in question is the total *possible future value* of the company.
Correct. That is what is being measured in both cases, albeit with a different measuring stick.
If what Apple did is legal or not, but if it paid only 1.8% tax on its profits that's wrong and it should have to pay more.
[Apple] don't care, they'll never pay and you'll be left sobbing in a corner going "why apple?! why?".
No, I shall be laughing in the open going "Good riddance to Apple!"
As far as economics go it was a slam dunk. If there is room for complaint, it is in the area of communication; there are other even stronger refutations that might have been used. ;)
And Apple isn't the "world's largest company." But the attempted demonstration using Aramco was a total failure. Hyundai would be a much better example, with about 70 times the market capitalization of Apple. Apple does tend to have the world's largest "war chest," because other companies re-invest more of what they're not using. Apple is run by the most elite of the elitists, who are simply more willing to sit on a cash hoard than anybody else. The other big companies are dominated by business people, who look at that money pile the way they look at a sloucher. "Get back to work!"
Deep.
Facebook benefit from a well educated populace?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
In reality, the EU disagrees and sees Apple as being $8 billion + (interest and penalties) short.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
And Apple isn't the "world's largest company." But the attempted demonstration using Aramco was a total failure. Hyundai would be a much better example, with about 70 times the market capitalization of Apple.
And you just won the price for being the Internet's greatest dummy.
When you take Apple's market caps in US Dollar, and Hyundai's market caps in South Korean Won, then Hyundai's number is 70 times higher. However, one US dollar is worth about 1,200 Won. So when converted to US Dollars, Apple's market caps is about 18 times higher.
Fact is, if Apple tries to avoid paying the debt, it'll find itself paying it anyway, regardless of whether it pulls out of the EU. The EU will find ways.
You're probably talking to someone who believes Apple isn't going to pay $8 billion because it has more power than the EU. And it has more power than the EU because it has more money. Seriously, that's the argument I keep hearing.
Good catch, but that is actually that is just Hyundai Motor Company. It is less than 6x once you include the rest of the Hyundai Group.
However, when you compare revenue then Hyundai is bigger than Apple. And if you use the 10 year average, it isn't even close.