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German Court: "Sharing" Your Amazon Purchases Is Spamming (reuters.com)

An anonymous reader writes: A court in Germany has ruled that the 'Share' links which Amazon provides to customers directly after making a purchase at the site are unlawful. The "Share" functionality provides buttons which allow the consumer to signal a new purchase via Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, or email. The court, ratifying an earlier decision made at a lower court, declared that emails initiated via the Share function constitute "unsolicited advertising and unreasonable harassment."

35 of 195 comments (clear)

  1. Interesting post, thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Thanks for the post, I'll have to check it out.

  2. Seems like freedom of speech to me by mmiscool · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seems like freedom of speech to me

    1. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by randm.ca · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What do the emails look like? Is there any "speech" from the user, or do they just plug in an email address and amazon does all the "speaking"?

    2. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's freedom of speech if you take the link, copy it into Facebook or Twitter and say "just got me one of these babies".

      It's spam when a commercial entity gives you a quick means of shilling their product without stopping to think "do my friends really give a shit?" It's doubly spam if your friends email is ever provided to Amazon in this process without their consent.

      Because if your friends didn't give Amazon permission to send email, pretending like you spontaneously sent the email is kind of bullshit.

      No, sorry, making commercial communication appear to have been a spontaneous outpouring by consumers is a shady way of getting around stuff like opt-in.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by frogcode · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While I'm sure Germany has laws that allow people to speak their minds, It's probably not like the United State's First Amendment which at times doesn't apply either in cases of libel or slander.

    4. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by stephanruby · · Score: 3, Informative

      What do the emails look like? Is there any "speech" from the user, or do they just plug in an email address and amazon does all the "speaking"?

      I assume it is like most commercial Share buttons.

      Amazon pre-fills the form pretending to speak on behalf of the buyer, but that person can edit that text however he/she wants.

    5. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Personally I think people should be allowed to use the quick one-button solution. It let's me know who I can unfriend/unfollow for being a prat.

      But who I am kidding, most user generated content on social media sites isn't much better than this spam. I hope the kill off the rest of the "share to x" buttons out there because there's plenty of other crap beyond just Amazon or online retailers.

      I had a great idea for a Facebook replacement, but it turns out there's already plenty of prior art for meeting at a pub and having a beer with friends so I don't think I can get a patent.

    6. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Shady and tacky, but still should be protected against government intrusion.

      There are spam laws, you can't just pretend they don't exist.

      I sure as hell don't want to use an internet where any asshole can decided that I don't get a vote in if I see their commercial speech or not.

      Sorry, take your anti-government crap elsewhere. Accepting all spam as free speech is idiotic. You do not have the freedom to send me unsolicited commercial email just because you're an ass who thinks its his right.

      Fuck that. The onslaught of bullshit from corporations would be impossible.

      I don't give a shit about what some asshole in marketing believes is the free speech of his company.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    7. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's doubly spam if your friends email is ever provided to Amazon in this process without their consent.

      THIS. It is not okay to spam me just because one of your customers has me in their address book, Facebook friends, etc. and you got their permission. You did not get my permission. The amount of bullshit spam I was getting from LinkedIn, because other people installed that app and it harvested all of their contacts to send spam to, got so bad I had to block LinkedIn's IP ranges from connecting to my mail server. Some companies think it's reasonable to spam their customers and everyone they know, as if there's some type of opt-in-by-proxy. It doesn't work that way.

    8. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by TwentyCharsIsNotEnou · · Score: 2

      It's spam when a commercial entity gives you a quick means of shilling their product without stopping to think "do my friends really give a shit?" It's doubly spam if your friends email is ever provided to Amazon in this process without their consent.

      I would argue that it's spam only in the case where Amazon send direct messages to people without their consent. If they make it easier for you to do it, but their own servers don't actually get involved, I can't see the problem - then it's the purchaser who's sending the message, regardless who composed it.

      I guess with the email option, it must be Amazon's servers that send the message - in which case I fully agree that constitutes spam.

    9. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by pla · · Score: 5, Insightful

      without stopping to think "do my friends really give a shit?"

      So, basically no different from the entire rest of Facebook?

      "I just ate a bag of Doritos" - I don't give a shit.
      "Look at these pictures of my new puppy/baby/ocelot/car/hairstyle" - I don't give a shit.
      "I just bought a new Dyson Vacuum on Amazon" - I don't give a shit.
      "Sally has just changed her relationship status to emotional blackmail" - I don't give a shit.
      "I just took a great big shit" - Nope, I still don't give a shit.

    10. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by penguinoid · · Score: 4, Funny

      I couldn't agree more. In fact, there's a petition to prevent people from sending one-click spam to other people. Click here to sign it. It will automatically detect who your representative is from your IP address and send him a letter.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    11. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by prefec2 · · Score: 2

      It is not. Sending adverts to all your friends is spam not freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is about the right to be not censored by the government to suppress political, scientific and religious opinion. It is definitely not about ones last purchase, which is just something for a narcissistic person to express their self-importance. It often helps to visualize such posts as messages or letters to all your friends. It is annoying to get all these totally unimportant messages.

    12. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's freedom of speech if you take the link, copy it into Facebook or Twitter and say "just got me one of these babies".

      It's spam when a commercial entity gives you a quick means...

      Nonsense. Is it legit if you hand write a letter to your grandma about your purchase, but spam if you use a pre-printed letter that came in the box, and you fill in a few blanks before mailing it to grandma? No? Specifically why or why not?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    13. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that the way these things actually work is I, Amazon's customer, authorize Amazon to post this message to my facebook, twitter, etc account. It then becomes visible to anyone who can see my social media feeds, and automatically notifies anyone who gets notifications about activity on my feeds.

      So, anyone seeing my shared purchase info, has opted in to seeing whatever crap I post to the stream, and I authorised this post.

      It's an asinine thing to do, but ultimately it is not in any philosophical way equivalent to Amazon sending unsolicited advertisement.

    14. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      You know..I've seen these buttons on the completion of sales...and wondered if that many people actually share or notify friends when they BUY something?!?!

      Seriouslyl? I mean...why?

      I know there are some people out there who like to brag, or show off....but I can't believe that is in the majority out there, is it?

      Are there really a significant enough number of people that actually 'share' some if not all of what they buy online??

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    15. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Jhon · · Score: 2

      Bah. Posting to undo an unintended down-mod. Someone give this an upmod. Two to make up for my stupidity.

    16. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by umafuckit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seems like freedom of speech to me

      You know what? Freedom of speech is there to protect important stuff, not bullshit like this. There is no absolute freedom of speech because there are already several forms of speech that, as a society, we deem illegal. So if a court decides that a vendor encouraging people to advertise for them for free is spamming, then I'm happy to take that in the spirit in which it is intended and not debase the important right to freedom of speech to defend Amazon. Where your rights are actually being eroded is by things such as "companies are people and are entitled to freedom of speech". That kind of thing concentrates power in the hands of the few whilst masquerading as democracy.

    17. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Xenx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But.... ocelot.

    18. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by DavidMZ · · Score: 2
      Then maybe this ruling would not happen in the US.

      But this is Germany, and European countries have different interpretations of 'Freedom of Speech': Freedom of speech in Germany.

      And, if you ask me, it is for the best. If applied in the US, it would cut some of the utter nonsense I hear everyday when I turn on the news.

    19. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by vux984 · · Score: 2

      Is it legit if you hand write a letter to your grandma about your purchase, but spam if you use a pre-printed letter that came in the box, and you fill in a few blanks before mailing it to grandma?

      What if the retailer, at the time of sale, simply says "mind if we tell your grandma"? If the answer is "no", then she fills out the letter, including the blanks, and even mails it for you?

      One difference that immediately springs to the forefront is that in the former scenarios *I* clearly mailed the letter. I filled out the form, I dropped it in the outgoing mail box.

      In the latter the retailer sent it, at best, 'with my permission'.

    20. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by sysrammer · · Score: 2

      Warning: link sends you to goatse. Not a problem for me, of course, as I use systemd with a hosts file.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    21. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by pregister · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why do you not realize it isn't the quality of your friends' posts that is poor, but the quality of your friends?

    22. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 2

      The idea is you think someone else would be interested in the item and want to share it with them. Share buttons provide a quick way to do that.

    23. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by reboot246 · · Score: 2

      I've often wondered the same thing myself. I've never "shared" information about what I buy because even my best friends and family don't really give a shit about what I'm buying.

  3. Heil Amazon! by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2

    Jawohl, mein herr!

    Fun fact: Amazon doesn't pay any taxes in Germany, they're all "profits" "realized" in Ireland.

    Where it pays no taxes too.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Heil Amazon! by prefec2 · · Score: 2

      While the whole thread is off topic, it is problematic when states are not well funded because some people and companies can sneak out with their money. Actually, it is stealing from the public and it shows that such people or companies do not care about other or the effects of their actions. In short they behave sociopathic. It also shows that they hope that others pa their taxes, because without funding the sate will collapse and there will be no schools, no food stamps (USA) and no minimal income (EU), no health care for everyone, no drinking water, no roads, no police, no money. Therefore, it is important to pay your taxes. Especially the social services help to stabilize a country and society. .

  4. Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Seems like freedom of speech to me

    All spammers could claim the same "freedom of speech" defence.

    Fortunately the world is not quite stupid enough to accept that as a valid excuse for what is very clearly unsolicited advertising.

    1. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fortunately the world is not quite stupid enough to accept that as a valid excuse for what is very clearly unsolicited advertising.

      It's not unsolicited advertising. If you don't like seeing communication that the friends and contacts YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO HEAR FROM are sending out through deliberate action on their part, then you simply have poor choice in friends and are trying to blame someone else.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    2. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by thoromyr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      in what way is the advertising unsolicited? the receiver did not ask their friends to spam them.

      You wouldn't by any chance represent a sales or marketing type, would you? I had to deal with a spammer for a while (as in, supporting his activities). Even though he was buying software to harvest emails to send unwanted and unsolicited email, he too found ways to justify his activities.

      What was particularly memorable was dealing with his complaints about his spam being filtered out as being spam. He insisted and swore up and down that it wasn't. Unfortunately for him, spam filters are pretty good these days and even if *he* as the *sender* didn't feel like it was spam, the rest of the world disagreed.

      So, yes, it *is* unsolicited advertising. I'm glad you don't have my email address because by the sound of things you wouldn't honor any request to quit fucking spamming me.

  5. Probably badly translated by mseeger · · Score: 2

    Court verdicts are not easy to read, but they managed to garble it further.

    The verdict is not about sharing your purchases but the unsolicited sharing of offers from marketplace vendors.

  6. Re:Next up: Social media "likes"? by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

    Because it's not email?

    The only mention of Facebook, Twitter, et al above is in the description of the service Amazon provides. The court has only ruled ONE function of that service to be spam - the sending of that message via email.

    email is subject to a lot of anti-spam regulations in most of Western Europe and North America right now. This ruling shouldn't really surprise anyone. It'd be interesting to see whether Amazon's current emails actually comply with CAN SPAM (they probably do, it's a weak act, and largely based upon an opt-out view of the world, but that said, Amazon does have to provide an opt-out mechanism and honor it, without checking emails I've had from the service I can't say.)

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  7. Re: Next up: Social media "likes"? by Kjella · · Score: 2

    That makes no sense. If I opted in to see ads, I opted in. Whether they come direct from Amazon or via Google is immaterial.

    No, the question is if there's a valid chain of agreements between the advertiser and the recipient. If Amazon buys ad space on Facebook and I have agreed through their terms of service to receive ads, the chain is valid. Obviously that right doesn't extend to Facebook users in general, if you sign up a spambot of course it's unsolicited because I agreed to receive ads but not from you. So did you in the friend request get explicit permission to send/forward commercial email to me? If not, then you don't have it at least in Germany. And that means Amazon doesn't have it either, you can't get my permission from my friend.

    Or the TL;DR version:
    Amazon <--- permission ---> Facebook <--- permission ---> you = OK
    Amazon <--- permission ---> Facebook "friend" <--- no permission ---> you = NOT OK

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  8. Re: Next up: Social media "likes"? by Entrope · · Score: 2

    That still doesn't make sense, unless you mean to say that my friends don't have permission to send me emails, which is clearly an untenable proposition. In this situation, Amazon is suggesting and facilitating the sending of an email by my friend, which is almost exactly the same as something showing up on my social event stream -- Facebook suggests and facilitates the "like" being sent, Amazon suggests and facilitates the "email" being sent.

  9. Re:If you dig deeper by ledow · · Score: 2

    EU data protection law simply doesn't allow that.

    They do not have permission to email that address from the OWNER of that address. This is already well-established.

    But that doesn't affect anything like someone sharing on their own Facebook, via their own Facebook account. It's an entirely different process.

    You can't give someone else permission to email me or see my Facebook. Only I can do that. But that doesn't affect what you spam on your own timeline.