German Court: "Sharing" Your Amazon Purchases Is Spamming (reuters.com)

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German Court: "Sharing" Your Amazon Purchases Is Spamming (reuters.com)

Posted by samzenpus on Monday January 25, 2016 @07:30AM from the keep-it-to-yourself dept.

An anonymous reader writes: A court in Germany has ruled that the 'Share' links which Amazon provides to customers directly after making a purchase at the site are unlawful. The "Share" functionality provides buttons which allow the consumer to signal a new purchase via Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, or email. The court, ratifying an earlier decision made at a lower court, declared that emails initiated via the Share function constitute "unsolicited advertising and unreasonable harassment."

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Interesting post, thanks by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-25 07:34 · Score: 2, Funny

Thanks for the post, I'll have to check it out.
Seems like freedom of speech to me by mmiscool · 2016-01-25 07:35 · Score: 3, Insightful

Seems like freedom of speech to me
1. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by randm.ca · 2016-01-25 07:38 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  What do the emails look like? Is there any "speech" from the user, or do they just plug in an email address and amazon does all the "speaking"?
2. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by gstoddart · 2016-01-25 07:41 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It's freedom of speech if you take the link, copy it into Facebook or Twitter and say "just got me one of these babies".
  It's spam when a commercial entity gives you a quick means of shilling their product without stopping to think "do my friends really give a shit?" It's doubly spam if your friends email is ever provided to Amazon in this process without their consent.
  Because if your friends didn't give Amazon permission to send email, pretending like you spontaneously sent the email is kind of bullshit.
  No, sorry, making commercial communication appear to have been a spontaneous outpouring by consumers is a shady way of getting around stuff like opt-in.
  
  --
  Lost at C:>. Found at C.
3. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by frogcode · 2016-01-25 07:41 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  While I'm sure Germany has laws that allow people to speak their minds, It's probably not like the United State's First Amendment which at times doesn't apply either in cases of libel or slander.
4. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by stephanruby · 2016-01-25 07:51 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  What do the emails look like? Is there any "speech" from the user, or do they just plug in an email address and amazon does all the "speaking"?
  I assume it is like most commercial Share buttons.
  Amazon pre-fills the form pretending to speak on behalf of the buyer, but that person can edit that text however he/she wants.
5. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by alvinrod · 2016-01-25 07:52 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Personally I think people should be allowed to use the quick one-button solution. It let's me know who I can unfriend/unfollow for being a prat.
  
  But who I am kidding, most user generated content on social media sites isn't much better than this spam. I hope the kill off the rest of the "share to x" buttons out there because there's plenty of other crap beyond just Amazon or online retailers.
  
  I had a great idea for a Facebook replacement, but it turns out there's already plenty of prior art for meeting at a pub and having a beer with friends so I don't think I can get a patent.
6. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by gstoddart · 2016-01-25 07:53 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Shady and tacky, but still should be protected against government intrusion.
  There are spam laws, you can't just pretend they don't exist.
  I sure as hell don't want to use an internet where any asshole can decided that I don't get a vote in if I see their commercial speech or not.
  Sorry, take your anti-government crap elsewhere. Accepting all spam as free speech is idiotic. You do not have the freedom to send me unsolicited commercial email just because you're an ass who thinks its his right.
  Fuck that. The onslaught of bullshit from corporations would be impossible.
  I don't give a shit about what some asshole in marketing believes is the free speech of his company.
  
  --
  Lost at C:>. Found at C.
7. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-25 07:54 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  It's doubly spam if your friends email is ever provided to Amazon in this process without their consent.
  THIS. It is not okay to spam me just because one of your customers has me in their address book, Facebook friends, etc. and you got their permission. You did not get my permission. The amount of bullshit spam I was getting from LinkedIn, because other people installed that app and it harvested all of their contacts to send spam to, got so bad I had to block LinkedIn's IP ranges from connecting to my mail server. Some companies think it's reasonable to spam their customers and everyone they know, as if there's some type of opt-in-by-proxy. It doesn't work that way.
8. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by TwentyCharsIsNotEnou · 2016-01-25 07:57 · Score: 2
  
  It's spam when a commercial entity gives you a quick means of shilling their product without stopping to think "do my friends really give a shit?" It's doubly spam if your friends email is ever provided to Amazon in this process without their consent.
  I would argue that it's spam only in the case where Amazon send direct messages to people without their consent. If they make it easier for you to do it, but their own servers don't actually get involved, I can't see the problem - then it's the purchaser who's sending the message, regardless who composed it.
  
  I guess with the email option, it must be Amazon's servers that send the message - in which case I fully agree that constitutes spam.
9. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by pla · 2016-01-25 08:00 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  without stopping to think "do my friends really give a shit?"
  
  So, basically no different from the entire rest of Facebook?
  
  "I just ate a bag of Doritos" - I don't give a shit.
  "Look at these pictures of my new puppy/baby/ocelot/car/hairstyle" - I don't give a shit.
  "I just bought a new Dyson Vacuum on Amazon" - I don't give a shit.
  "Sally has just changed her relationship status to emotional blackmail" - I don't give a shit.
  "I just took a great big shit" - Nope, I still don't give a shit.
10. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by penguinoid · 2016-01-25 08:01 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  I couldn't agree more. In fact, there's a petition to prevent people from sending one-click spam to other people. Click here to sign it. It will automatically detect who your representative is from your IP address and send him a letter.
  
  --
  Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
11. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by prefec2 · 2016-01-25 08:01 · Score: 2
  
  It is not. Sending adverts to all your friends is spam not freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is about the right to be not censored by the government to suppress political, scientific and religious opinion. It is definitely not about ones last purchase, which is just something for a narcissistic person to express their self-importance. It often helps to visualize such posts as messages or letters to all your friends. It is annoying to get all these totally unimportant messages.
12. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by ScentCone · 2016-01-25 08:02 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  It's freedom of speech if you take the link, copy it into Facebook or Twitter and say "just got me one of these babies".
  
  It's spam when a commercial entity gives you a quick means...
  Nonsense. Is it legit if you hand write a letter to your grandma about your purchase, but spam if you use a pre-printed letter that came in the box, and you fill in a few blanks before mailing it to grandma? No? Specifically why or why not?
  
  --
  Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
13. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-25 08:05 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Except that the way these things actually work is I, Amazon's customer, authorize Amazon to post this message to my facebook, twitter, etc account. It then becomes visible to anyone who can see my social media feeds, and automatically notifies anyone who gets notifications about activity on my feeds.
  So, anyone seeing my shared purchase info, has opted in to seeing whatever crap I post to the stream, and I authorised this post.
  It's an asinine thing to do, but ultimately it is not in any philosophical way equivalent to Amazon sending unsolicited advertisement.
14. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by ScentCone · 2016-01-25 08:05 · Score: 1
  
  No. Even US Courts have ruled freedom of speech does not mean you have a right to stuff your opinion down someones throat...
  How is communication initiated by one of your friends, a person you have chosen to hear from when they update their status or make postings, somehow them stuffing something down your throat? You have TOTAL control over whether or not you hear from those people. If you don't like it, just don't follow them - you obviously have made a poor choice in bad-mannered friends, and are trying to blame someone else for your own shortcomings.
  
  --
  Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
15. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by pla · 2016-01-25 08:05 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Whoah, put down them irons, cowboy! You can just ignore it when Amazon asks if you want to share your purchase. You don't even need to say "no", you just move along with whatever you wanted to do next.
  
  I hate spam as much as the next guy, but "don't click the goddamned share this button" falls juuust tad short of sending 50M emails a day about Chinese V1@gra.
16. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by jdavidb · 2016-01-25 08:07 · Score: 1
  
  The easy solution to this is to not be friends with someone anymore if they do this to you. Taking it to a court of law is a far worse offense than the spam from a friend.
  
  --
  Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
17. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by cayenne8 · 2016-01-25 08:07 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  You know..I've seen these buttons on the completion of sales...and wondered if that many people actually share or notify friends when they BUY something?!?!
  Seriouslyl? I mean...why?
  I know there are some people out there who like to brag, or show off....but I can't believe that is in the majority out there, is it?
  Are there really a significant enough number of people that actually 'share' some if not all of what they buy online??
  
  --
  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
18. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Jhon · 2016-01-25 08:08 · Score: 2
  
  Bah. Posting to undo an unintended down-mod. Someone give this an upmod. Two to make up for my stupidity.
19. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by prefec2 · 2016-01-25 08:11 · Score: 1
  
  Yes we have. The boundaries between free speech (which is a human right) and other human rights are just a little bit different than in the US. These differences are an expression of the differences in culture.
20. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by aix+tom · 2016-01-25 08:31 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe. But one could also argue that burring your house in 142 tons of leaflets is also "fee speech".
21. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by umafuckit · 2016-01-25 08:33 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Seems like freedom of speech to me
  You know what? Freedom of speech is there to protect important stuff, not bullshit like this. There is no absolute freedom of speech because there are already several forms of speech that, as a society, we deem illegal. So if a court decides that a vendor encouraging people to advertise for them for free is spamming, then I'm happy to take that in the spirit in which it is intended and not debase the important right to freedom of speech to defend Amazon. Where your rights are actually being eroded is by things such as "companies are people and are entitled to freedom of speech". That kind of thing concentrates power in the hands of the few whilst masquerading as democracy.
  
  --
  soylentnews.org
22. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Xenx · 2016-01-25 08:34 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  But.... ocelot.
23. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by DavidMZ · 2016-01-25 08:38 · Score: 2
  
  Then maybe this ruling would not happen in the US.
  But this is Germany, and European countries have different interpretations of 'Freedom of Speech': Freedom of speech in Germany.
  And, if you ask me, it is for the best. If applied in the US, it would cut some of the utter nonsense I hear everyday when I turn on the news.
24. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by vux984 · 2016-01-25 08:38 · Score: 2
  
  Is it legit if you hand write a letter to your grandma about your purchase, but spam if you use a pre-printed letter that came in the box, and you fill in a few blanks before mailing it to grandma?
  What if the retailer, at the time of sale, simply says "mind if we tell your grandma"? If the answer is "no", then she fills out the letter, including the blanks, and even mails it for you?
  One difference that immediately springs to the forefront is that in the former scenarios *I* clearly mailed the letter. I filled out the form, I dropped it in the outgoing mail box.
  In the latter the retailer sent it, at best, 'with my permission'.
25. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Hognoxious · 2016-01-25 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  But presumably it only goes to your acolytes, or whatever they're called?
  Don't want to know every time Quim Cardassian buys some new knickers? Don't sign up to her list.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
26. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by RenderSeven · 2016-01-25 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  Wait wait wait... its illegal for Amazon to have a click-share button. But the Slashdot story has a click share button, both linked articles have click-share buttons (and code to send metrics to FB and Google even if you dont click), all 4 articles *they* link to have click-shares. Even Angela Merkel's web page has a Facebook share button. None of that is "unreasonable harassment" but Amazon is? Because some German Amazon reseller got all pissy that another Amazon reseller was selling more than him? Facebook has become more social disease than social media, and the pervasive mad rush to capitalize on it in any way possible at our expense is utterly unconscionable, but letting a court decide which arbitrary cross-marketing implementation is the "unreasonable harassment" du jour is bull.
27. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by ganjadude · 2016-01-25 08:53 · Score: 1
  
  only place i can see it being useful is video games,
  
  oh frankie bought mario kart 354 extreme edition? that sounds fun, ill scoop it and we can play
  
  --
  have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
28. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Kurrelgyre · 2016-01-25 08:57 · Score: 1
  
  Not sure why you got downmodded. It is shady, and tacky, and not at all automatic.
29. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by sysrammer · 2016-01-25 08:58 · Score: 2
  
  Warning: link sends you to goatse. Not a problem for me, of course, as I use systemd with a hosts file.
  
  --
  His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
30. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by pregister · 2016-01-25 08:58 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Why do you not realize it isn't the quality of your friends' posts that is poor, but the quality of your friends?
31. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by The+MAZZTer · 2016-01-25 09:04 · Score: 2
  
  The idea is you think someone else would be interested in the item and want to share it with them. Share buttons provide a quick way to do that.
32. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-25 09:24 · Score: 1
  
  its illegal for Amazon to have a click-share button sending unsolicited e-mail
  
  FTFY.
  What the court ruled illegal was not the Facegram+ "sharing", but amazon also "sharing" purchases via PLAIN OLD E-MAIL.
  In other words, unsolicited commercial e-mail (aka spam) is unsolicited even if some other person technically solicited it.
  Why? Because otherwise there would be no spam, as every spammer could simply claim they solicited it themselves.
33. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by CanadianMacFan · 2016-01-25 09:26 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, but it isn't some asshole in marketing sending you the message. It is someone who knows you and has bought something. They then have to actively choose to put your email into a form (or maybe it can connect to your address book, I don't know I never used the stupid thing).
  Do I like it? Not at all. But I don't think it's spam. Amazon isn't going through your contacts and saying that you bought X without your knowledge. Or it's not firing off emails to random people saying a person with a purchase history like yours just bought X. That would be spam (unless they opted in).
  If I had the inclination I could send an email to my friends saying that I bought X from Amazon using my email client. Amazon is making it easy for me. I never understood why people would want to share when they order something. It's when you get something or when it's set up and running that's exciting to me.
34. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by ScentCone · 2016-01-25 09:35 · Score: 1
  
  In the latter the retailer sent it, at best, 'with my permission'.
  1) Why are you putting quotes around 'with my permission' ... what you're describing is exactly with your permission.
  
  2) How does the retailer have your grandma's postal address?
  
  --
  Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
35. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by OhPlz · 2016-01-25 09:41 · Score: 1
  
  How is censoring any negative comments about the economic migrants an example of Germany embracing freedom of speech?
36. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by angel'o'sphere · 2016-01-25 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  We are talking about spam emails here.
  Not about freedom of speech.
  I'm pretty sure you have a spam filer, too.
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
37. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by angel'o'sphere · 2016-01-25 10:01 · Score: 1
  
  A friend is some one who organizes a rescue party as soon as he knows my plane crashed in the sahara.
  If he used facebook for that, it is fine for me.
  If he spams me on facebook with his last purchases I probably make a group for him alone, put him inside and remove the 'post on my timeline' or what ever ... bottom line: he is still,my friend even if he posts retarded nonsense.
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
38. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by dpidcoe · 2016-01-25 10:03 · Score: 1
  
  While that makes a funny one-liner, I find the fact that it's being modded insightful is a bit worrying. There's not really a correlation between the quality of a person and the quality of their social media postings.
  
  At the risk of pulling in an anecdotal counter-example, I knew someone who IRL was one of the most sleazy and manipulative bastards I've ever met. He flat out told me he was in the CS program at school despite having no interest or affinity for CS because "nerds made good targets" for his social manipulations. He cheated and manipulated his way through classes until people just refused to interact with him anymore, then dropped out of the program the semester after that conversation happened (now I think he does marketing/sales/business stuff professionally). Despite him being what in my opinion is a pretty terrible person, the occasional social media post I see from him is always well constructed and generally interesting. Even the stuff bragging about his expensive vacation to somewhere had some well edited gopro footage. Then I also know the converse of that, a coworker who's a pretty smart EE and fun to do stuff with, but give him access to a text based form of communication not professional e-mail and he falls back to a dialect of late 90s txtspeak that's maddening to read.
  
  All that to say, the things that make a good quality social media poster aren't the same things that make a good quality friend and vice versa.
39. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by angel'o'sphere · 2016-01-25 10:03 · Score: 1
  
  It is spam as you don't write a single email to your grandma but to everybody amazon or the social site considers your 'friend'.
  Perhaps you start to grasp the concept of automated mass mailings to people who don't want those mails eventually.
  Or do you really think a german granny sued her grandson or amazone?
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
40. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by dpidcoe · 2016-01-25 10:07 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know about the letter analogy (it seems a bit incoherent tbh), but I'd definitely put "with my permission" in quotes for the software side of things just because of how easy it is to hide permission inside an EULA or a very easy to click by accident button (looking at you, amazon one-click purchasing).
41. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by desdinova+216 · 2016-01-25 10:13 · Score: 1
  
  great, now we're going to get APK spam.
42. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by nospam007 · 2016-01-25 10:15 · Score: 1
  
  "Share buttons provide a quick way to do that."
  Those Share Buttons also 'share' everything they can obtain from your connection with themselves, they all do that, that's why they are called trackers.
  And since they are everywhere nowadays, they'll know everything you ever did on the web, even if you never click on one in your life.
  That's where Ghostery comes in.
43. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-25 10:18 · Score: 1
  
  In 50 years, the US will be conquered in a bloodless battle by a small nation calling us all poopoo heads.
44. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by vux984 · 2016-01-25 10:32 · Score: 1
  
  1) Why are you putting quotes around 'with my permission' ... what you're describing is exactly with your permission.
  Because the letter I authorized based on their description of the service, and the letter that was actually sent (details buried in fine print, or perhaps not disclosed at all?) bear very little resemblance.
  For example, if I order flowers to be delivered to my grandmother, and there's a box that says "include courtesy call to coordinate delivery" and I tick it, with this vision of you calling dear grams and confirming she'd be home that afternoon to receive them in person.
  But instead you use that courtesy call, yes to schedule a delivery but while on the phone upsell grandma on a more expensive courier if she wants them before next week, and then press her to pay a service fee to send me a thank you card too, then pumping her for the contact information of her friends for telemarketing calls... well... that's not exactly what I thought I was authorizing is it.
  And that's closer to what amazon's service is. Its not a little... hey X bought a new bbq.... why don't get to gether and have a grill night! Have a great weekend from Amazon!"
  Its more like "hey X bought a new bbq. Its so shiny, and has 3 burners, and stainless steel lining and 2 year warrnaty. Its got 5 stars on amazon... would you like to buy one now too?? Would you? Click here now!!"
  
  2) How does the retailer have your grandma's postal address?
  
  Don't know. Don't care. Maybe its a small enough town.
45. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by reboot246 · 2016-01-25 10:40 · Score: 2
  
  I've often wondered the same thing myself. I've never "shared" information about what I buy because even my best friends and family don't really give a shit about what I'm buying.
46. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by kwbauer · 2016-01-25 12:13 · Score: 1
  
  Yup and Germany has no freedom of speech. Oh Germans will claim otherwise but their courts just told them that, no, you do not have the freedom to tell all your social media contacts what you are doing and if you do, we will harm the guy that helped you do it.
47. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by kwbauer · 2016-01-25 12:15 · Score: 1
  
  Hey, dude. Amazon didn't spam anyone. They simply helped your "friends" do it in exactly the same way that social media sites are intended to.
48. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by kwbauer · 2016-01-25 12:17 · Score: 1
  
  I think someone who never actually clicked the button sued Amazon.
  It is amazing how many hoops people are willing to jump through trying to prove that Person A asking (or giving permission to) Person B to do something on behalf of Person A is not Person A doing it.
  Next up will be a ruling claiming that social media itself is violating some law or the other because "automated list processing" instead of personally writing every damn note with quill and ink.
49. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Sique · 2016-01-25 12:22 · Score: 1
  
  Freedom of speech does not only mean that you have the right to say what you want, it also means that you have the right to listen to what you want. And in the same way that you can't be forced to say what you don't want to say, you also can't be forced to listen to what you don't want to hear.
  Freedom of speech means that no one has any right to your attention. And that means that you have the right to tell everyone to shut the fuck up if he tries to get your attention nevertheless.
  
  --
  .sig: Sique *sigh*
50. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by kwbauer · 2016-01-25 12:38 · Score: 1
  
  True, but they have yet to rule that me sending them an email is "stuffing it down their throat". In fact, US courts have ruled that a physical (real-world) relationship does imply the level of consent needed to send emails and even phone calls.
  The US courts, so far, have not ruled that my asking a third party to act on my behalf is not the same as me having done it myself.
  I guess Germans can now take comfort in the fact that they can no hire a hitman to do their killing and not be held responsible for the murder.
51. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by kwbauer · 2016-01-25 12:42 · Score: 1
  
  No, freedom of speech means the government is not in the business of deciding what is bullshit and what is valuable (from a speech perspective).
  If freedom of speech means exactly that the government has a responsibility to censor based on the content of the message, then you have truly found the Orwellian definition of it.
52. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by kwbauer · 2016-01-25 12:55 · Score: 1
  
  So the current Amazon Prime offering that is based on one of Phillip K. Dicks novels would be banned in Germany because of the prominent use of the swastika? Or is it only certain, government approved, uses of the the swastika that are acceptable. So Germany could restrict a movie that featured swastikas even it if wasn't promoting Nazism but they still didn't like the content?
  And if Germany were truly enforcing its laws in an unbiased manner, nearly every posting on slashdot originating in Germany would be banned because of the insults to various US government agencies and leaders. Now that is some true freedom their folks.
  This description in the wikipedia article is simply awesome in its irony: "which also states that there is no censorship and freedom of expression may be limited by law." Get that, German law does not allow censorship except where German law demands it. Yup, true freedom happening over there folks.
  This is why Americans point out that most European countries do not have "freedom of speech". Your constitutions say you have it until your legislators say you don't. Our Constitution says we have it until the Government can prove to our courts that major harm to society will happen unless we restrict it. Both allow for limits but one is much closer to actual freedom than the other.
53. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by kwbauer · 2016-01-25 12:56 · Score: 1
  
  And defining abuse is censorship and then no more freedom...
54. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by kwbauer · 2016-01-25 13:00 · Score: 1
  
  Or they could have taken the rational approach and said that if the someone soliciting it (clicking on the button) is not associated with the company and/or has an outside relationship with the recipients, then the company is simply acting on behalf of the purchaser and then that still takes care of actual spammers.
55. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by PrimaryConsult · 2016-01-25 13:27 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry but after seeing articles and videos by Germans (criticising Germany's handling of migrants) censored as "hate speech", you most decidedly do not have free speech over there.
56. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by buck-yar · 2016-01-25 14:03 · Score: 1
  
  So its a clever way of creating the spam message. It doesn't change what it is.
57. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by OhPlz · 2016-01-25 14:59 · Score: 1
  
  Parent claims that Germany has free speech and counters a claim to the contrary referencing "differences in culture". The irony is that people who are trying to point out a "difference in culture" with the migrants are having their speech censored by Germany.
58. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by fazig · 2016-01-25 16:12 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not sure how it works in your country, but freedom of speech in Germany doesn't entitle you to dump your unsolicited advertisements on the property of others. I can see how they want to extend these laws to things like eMail-boxes as well.
  However, I don't see why they're targeting Amazon here. As I understand it, it's the people who use that share button who are to blame.
59. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by antdude · 2016-01-25 19:18 · Score: 1
  
  "I don't give a shit." :P
  
  --
  Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
60. Re: Seems like freedom of speech to me by prefec2 · 2016-01-25 19:31 · Score: 1
  
  No they habe not. You could say that in public. Your opinions are communucated by the media. There habe Bern hundrets of talk shows on the subject in the past years. Often it is you who do not want to talk to the media, which you call conveniently "lying media" (LÃ¼genpresse). However, the only ones who come up with fairy tales in the subject are right wingers and fascist. BTW in most news media , for example the Zeit, you can post what you want in the comments. And many of you do so. Their comment are only removed when they can insult people or threaten them. So if you want to discuss something substantial please do so. However, I did not hear a coherent argument from your side. The only thing you do is having and spreading fear without providing a human solution. I will not give up human rights. And I will not shoot at unarmed people.
61. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Tom · 2016-01-25 20:09 · Score: 1
  
  Because there is a difference between one and one hundred. Even very small children who can't yet count till three intuitively understand that.
  The problem with spam is the sheer volume. It's a classic tragedy of the commons: If you allow one company to send UCE, you have to allow all of them, which - due to the cost being near zero - means all of them will do it, which means e-mail becomes useless.
  Actually, did someone put me into a time machine back to the early 90s? Why do I even have to explain that? I thought that discussion has long been concluded. I feel like talking to someone who just went "explain me that gra-vi-ty thing, again".
  
  --
  Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
62. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Tom · 2016-01-25 20:18 · Score: 1
  
  I don't give a shit about what some asshole in marketing believes is the free speech of his company.
  Of course the solution is simple: Companies shouldn't have free speech. Free speech should be for people.
  
  --
  Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
63. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by jandersen · 2016-01-25 21:19 · Score: 1
  
  Seems like freedom of speech to me
  What? People go to Amazon, click a button, thereby performing unpaid advertising work for the company, and that counts as 'speech'? Certainly not speech by the customer; nor indeed thought. It is advertising, carried out by Amazon and sent out unsolicited. It is clearly SPAM, and the involvement of a customer's click is merely a new way of finding addressees. Odious. Underhanded. Not speech.
64. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by TheRaven64 · 2016-01-25 21:46 · Score: 1
  
  Two words: Conspicuous consumption.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
65. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by TheRaven64 · 2016-01-25 22:02 · Score: 1
  
  If the button did not exist, would the person have sent the message telling their friends about the purchase? If so, then it's hard to justify that it's spam originating from the company[1]. If not, then it's clear that Amazon is at least partially to blame for someone receiving unsolicited commercial email advertising Amazon.
  Did the email just contain a message from the person, or was it decorated with Amazon branding and 'click here to buy more stuff from Amazon' logos? If it just contained the message, then it's easy to argue that Amazon is just helping people communicate, if it contains Amazon advertising then it's much harder to argue that.
  [1] Iit may still be spam from the individual, of course - sending bulk commercial email to someone that you don't have a prior business relationship with is typically the legal definition of spam. It's still spam if you send an advertising email to all of your friends, though most people wouldn't mind too much if it's a one-off event.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
66. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by chthon · 2016-01-25 22:35 · Score: 1
  
  Interesting. Bill Gates' philanthropy is for sure conspicuous compassion.
67. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by ACE209 · 2016-01-26 00:27 · Score: 1
  
  No - it's about unsolicited advertising
  The point is: your "friends" cannot decide that you want that advertising. Only you can.
  
  --
  "we are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
68. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by AmiMoJo · 2016-01-26 01:12 · Score: 1
  
  I prefer to wait until I have the item so I can see if it is a POS and needs to be returned, before recommending it (or otherwise) to friends.
  The specific issue here is that email users have not requested for given permission for these marketing emails. Even if their "friends" provided their email addresses to Amazon, it is still a violation. In Germany the law requires that you seek permission to send people commercial emails advertising stuff (the commercial nature is key), and Amazon does not bother to check if the recipient pre-approved them.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
69. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by pla · 2016-01-26 01:46 · Score: 1
  
  Spam is percieved by the recipient, not whomever sends it.
  
  Funny thing about words - They actually have meanings that you don't randomly get to pick to support your entirely fatuous position.
  
  And by the way: How the heck did your response get marked insightful ? Its acually the very opposite of it.
  
  Because I would dare say that most of us can pull up our big-boy undies and just not click the "share" button. If your professional victimhood counts as the most interesting thing about you, however, I can see why you might not appreciate that possibility.
70. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by cayenne8 · 2016-01-26 02:56 · Score: 1
  
  On the rare instance I buy something and would go out of my way to recommend it to a friend.....
  I'd more than likely tell them the next time I saw them in person. I might email a link to them later if they were interested, but I can't see when I'd just automatically send email about products unless it was something we talked about while meeting in meatspace....
  
  --
  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
71. Re: Seems like freedom of speech to me by OhPlz · 2016-01-26 04:28 · Score: 1
  
  You might be able to say things in public, but post on Twitter or Facebook or any of social media and it's quite possible that your commentary will be removed. The "right wing" isn't responsible for what happened in Cologne on New Year's eve. The "right wing" isn't responsible for women that are too afraid to go outside. No one is talking about shooting unarmed people except for the extremists sneaking in with the flood of economic migrants. Germany is poisoning Europe with its reckless immigration policies. We know in the latest attacks in Paris that at least one of them snuck in with "refugees" via Greece. Yes, people have reason to be afraid, and it is you who are ignoring the human rights of the German and European people.
72. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by WallyL · 2016-01-26 05:22 · Score: 1
  
  Naw, this lawsuit occurred because the first person in the world actually clicked the link.
73. Re: Seems like freedom of speech to me by baristabrian · 2016-01-26 06:32 · Score: 1
  
  If somebody spammed me with something as totally irrelevant as news about some waste-of-potential-productive-time video I would certain "unfriend" them---or something. Just saying.
  
  --
  -- "I'm not in a hurry; I'm in Hawaii." The Homeless Guy
74. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-26 14:10 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think of it as spam so much as UCE (Unsolicited Commercial Emails). To my mind, there's a difference. One is bulk, more or less at random, and the likes. The other, while similar, isn't bulk and is more targeted than spam. Does it matter? Not really. It's just Germany being stupid. It's kind of what they do. They're a little fuzzy on the idea of freedom, rights, and liberties. We more or less just don't let them do anything important, having had to rebuild them and deal with their insanity in the past. We kind of keep them locked down, let them feel important, and have them make us things that take time, dedication, and physical skill. We don't actually let them have any power, or anything like that, and we sure as shit don't actually let them do anything with a military without strict supervision.
  This? While it's a bit stupid - it's mostly harmless and it only bugs Amazon and similar companies. If it were actually going to really harm Amazon (or any other corporation) we'd probably smack the Germans around a little bit, maybe call them names, and just ignore them. This, however, is fairly trivial so we will let them get away with it. It's surely easier than listening to them whine because we disallowed it. It's not like they're trusted to be a sovereign nation really. We just kind of pretend so that they feel like they've got a seat at the adult table. Really? They're pretty much kept powerless and rightfully so. They've continually demonstrated that they're not allowed to /really/ sit at the adult table but we let them pretend. It's kind of like the fake steering wheels that we put on kid's car seats. They're easily fooled.
  We just don't let them too close to ovens, Jews, poison gas, or other dangerous things. I kind of expect that any "military" equipment that we do let them play with is actually set to not work with the push of a button. Again, it's a bit like the fake steering wheel. They honk the horn, make some noise, and think they're in control but when they turn the wheel nothing actually happens (thankfully).
  I'm still not logging in, it's nice out here and I don't log in when I'm on my phone.
75. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by fazig · 2016-01-26 14:16 · Score: 1
  
  On the internet, without knowing the true intention of the participants of a discussion, it's often nearly impossible to tell trolling apart from actual stupidity.
76. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-26 14:21 · Score: 1
  
  You just need to find a way to do it "on a computer" and then you're all set for a patent. At least in my country... (I know - I got patents for doing things "on a computer" except, in my case, they were novel and new but, still - I only patented it to ensure I had protection, most of it was actually just kept a trade secret.)
  So, maybe you need to use video cameras and make it a chat room where you sit around and drink beer? Alternatively, you could share/like things (on a button) while using a computer AT the pub? You can have both those ideas, I bequeath them to you directly my good sir. If you should patent either, and make millions, then you owe me not a dime but it'd be nice if you'd donate a little to the EFF and, maybe, the ACLU and Red Cross.
  But, yes... You could like beers and share them (maybe even buy one) for a friend - all by use of a like/share button while physically at the bar. They could, of course, post to Facebook at the same time - or perhaps you could even video conference with another group of friends at another bar - and the share/like button could order that beer for them, at that bar, and automatically deduct the funds (and tip - if applicable) from your account.
  You just gotta be creative. That's not prior art, that's art created on your behalf and you have ownership of that idea now. Go forth and make millions! Thrive in the market and grow!
  Actually, done well - it might work. But, it's no longer my idea - it belongs to you. You can apply for the patent all you wish... Method for recommending and sharing a frosty beverage while engaged in recreation at an establishment designed for the consumption of food or beverages...
  Sadly, someone probably already has a patent.
  KGIII - still outside, on phone, idly chatting and reading, and still not logging in
77. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by KGIII · 2016-01-26 16:11 · Score: 1
  
  *snickers* Nah, I was trolling. I don't have the heart to troll without actually noting it. Well, not normally... That and I love to pick on Germany, it's just too fun as it has been my observation that they can get riled up pretty easily. (It's as if they have a history of that... *grins*)
  But yeah, it was trolling. Hopefully you knew better than to take me seriously. I've not only been to Germany, multiple times, but I enjoyed it there, liked the people, and really enjoy a number of vehicles (I'm an automobile aficionado - quite extremely so) from Germany. I've even gone to Germany and spent a whole lot of money taking lessons, hiring a coach, leasing exotics, and doing laps at Nurburgring. Actually, it wasn't *that* expensive - about 20k Euro and that includes hiring professional coaches, classroom time, and over a week of track days.
  Nor do I, obviously, actually harbor any resentment towards Germany for past events. Few people are alive today who were participants. Children are not accountable for the sins of their fathers. I was not alive during WWII and, I strongly suspect, you weren't alive then either. I don't think either of us are to blame and I'd like to think we've both learned that not engaging in that sort of behavior is a good idea.
  So, yeah, trolling - I just didn't have the heart to do so without actually noting it and making sure that it was known that it was me - and that I was, quite intentionally, trolling. While it's sometimes a great deal of fun - I just don't have the heart to do it seriously or without acknowledging my intent. I did, at one time, enjoy some fine German beers but no more - at least not often. I'd become a bit too adept at drinking so I had to stop.
  Another favorite of mine is to point out that Belgians have better beer than Germans. ;-) That's usually good for a rise in certain circles. But no, truth be told - I'm kind of fond of the people and the country is quite beautiful.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
78. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by fazig · 2016-01-26 16:35 · Score: 1
  
  I don't really care that much nationality related things.
  I just wanted to shed some light on the issue of freedom of speech here. When it comes to your private property, your freedom of speech supersedes that of others who might want to voice their opinion on your private property. If you do not like advertisements from certain individuals or groups on your private property, you're entitled to take legal action against them.
  It's not that dissimilar from the US. There you also don't have to allow someone to voice their opinion when they're on your property. You're within your rights to shoo them away or even use force. For example you've got the right to get rid of WBC protesters that are protesting on the lawn in front of your lawn (if applicable) if you do not agree with them. But once they're on public property, you're not allowed to censor their speech.
79. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by KGIII · 2016-01-26 18:31 · Score: 1
  
  You raise some interesting points, which have some tangentially related matters, and I feel obligated to ensure that I give you an accurate reply. Unfortunately, this means that it is likely to be quite long. Please be aware of that beforehand but, rest assured, I'm legitimately curious and value your opinion. If I were trolling (and nothing in this should seem at all like trolling - I'd identify it, if it were) then I'd not put this much energy or time into it. You raise some interesting (and actually complicated) topics in just your small response. I'll offer an answer, as best as I can, but I'll have some additional questions for you and then I'll probably end this with some reasoning as to why I ask and why I might be confused with your answer(s).
  Please note, also, that at no point will I argue with your answers. Any opinions you hold, you are welcome to. There probably isn't a right or wrong opinion - just more or less correct implementations. We'll see where this goes. It's going to be long, you have been warned. ;-) In fact, if you're at all curious about my motives - you can skip straight to the bottom and have a peek. I am legitimately curious and value any insights you might have. I'm fond of learning from other people.
  While that's all noble and true, I'm not really sure that this is truly a speech issue and, if it is, I'm not sure who the speech belongs to. This isn't an automated thing. This is someone, a friend, who is putting your email in the box and saying to send you an email. Is this the fault of the company for enabling it? Is that a bad thing?
  I, personally, never make use of such things. Ever... The last thing I'm going to do (well, not really the LAST but you get the idea) is give my friend's address to someone else. I *do* share some purchases with people that I feel might be interested. It's not entirely uncommon for me to do so. However, i do so manually. "Hey bro, I just picked up this and I was wondering if you want me to grab you one or if you'd like to help me work on it?" (That sort of thing - I've a brother who has some similar technological interests.)
  So, I agree with everything you said as being factually correct - by the way. Is this a speech issue? Even if it is, every country (that I know of) has some limitations on free speech and that includes (usually) the right to ignore said speech. You have the right to speak. I have no obligation to provide you a method or to listen.
  Then, there's this... Is this a speech issue? I guess it could be - but then, if it is, who does it belong to? It was initiated by a person, facilitated by a company, and may be unwanted. Should it be blanket outlawed? Should it require opt-in? Should it require opt-out? Should each message provide a mechanism to opt out of future messages? (I think that's probably the most sane choice, to be honest.) What other options are there? Does it need blanket banning? Blanket banning, if a speech issue, does also ban it for those who would welcome these messages - so it is potentially infringing on those rights.
  Where's the sane place to draw the line? I'm sure there's room to draw a line, while still respecting rights and being reasonable. Is it not unreasonable to insist that there be a strict opt-out mechanism and that such is provided in each missive, in clear and easily understood language and with a reasonable action time and punitive responses for failure to adhere to said policies? Would that not be the more freedom ensuring mechanism as opposed to a blanket ban that limits those who might welcome such?
  So, if you want to make that point - I'll respond in-kind. I'm happy to have that discussion. Is it onerous to have to click opt-out in a single message if one wants? Is it a violation of your right to not be disturbed to have an invite to view a product that a friend recommended? Remember - as well, that these are not automated but are individually initiated by a person and not by the seller.
  Is it still a violation if it appears i
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
80. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by fazig · 2016-01-26 21:16 · Score: 1
  
  I'll try to keep it short But I can make no promises.
  
  In this case, the entity who's delivering the message is partially to blame, even if the message was from a friend. For example it's a very common thing here to have a "no unsolicited advertisement" sticker on your physical mailbox. Which tells the entity who delivers ads, that you do not want them on your property. From my moral point of view, something similar as you've already mentioned (opt out or even better an opt in) would be absolutely sufficient in order to resolve this matter. And this is what I believe to be the consequence of this. Some mechanism where you opt in and then receive all those updates, similar to a newsletter, which is not considered to be spam.
  A blanket ban would not infringe those who welcome those ads. Since this is civilian law, a person who has been damaged or had their rights violated has to sue first. And if they do not chose to sue, it's none of the state's business. If a 3rd person chooses to sue on your behalf, but without your consent, they can't build a case, since no one was damaged. Just as with unwanted advertisements in your physical mailbox, usually the worst thing that will happen to the party that distributes unwanted ads are complaints. They might get some angry letters, faxes or phone calls. But virtually no one is suing about something that's so insignificant.
  I'm not sure how our courts would view something like a profile on facebook. As far as I know there's no precedent. But I suppose, as long as the messages stay on facebook and are not delivered to your private eMail box, it's not considered as spam. But again, I'm not sure here. Depending on the judges and lawyers, they may very well find some odd loopholes for this.
  
  Ultimately I'm not sure if this is much of a free speech issue. I was just replying to people who were trying to make it a free speech issue and pointing out that such an act would not be protected by free speech.
  
  Yes, I know that the laws can differ greatly from state to state.
  Here, where I live it's similar to what you're writing about Maine. Well, actually what I'm going to talk about here is federal law in Germany.
  I also do not have the right to use force in order to get rid of trespassers or even burglars for that matter. I've got to call the police. And that's how it usually goes down, when it come to trespassing. You ask them to leave and if they refuse, non violently, you call the police. Then they'll be removed and possibly liable for the damages they've caused, if there are any.
  I'm fine with this. I'm not a violent person and prefer a peaceful way of resolving a conflict.
  
  But there's something else that bothers me a lot. It doesn't matter if they're breaking into my house, destroy everything in their way and threaten my children. If I hit them and hurt them, in a situation that didn't call for it, then I'll be having my day in court. And there's no jury which may emphasize with my situation. On the contrary, it's likely that there will be lawyers which are making me look like the bad guy, for not inviting the burglars into my house (doesn't matter if they didn't even bother to ask first) and share some of my wealth, because those burglars had a very difficult childhood and whatever. God forbid if I dare to shoot them with the guns that I legally own (I do not own any guns at the moment). Doesn't matter if they're armed as that would only entitle me to defend myself with non firearms. Since I'm basically not allowed to have a loaded weapon in my house. Doing that would pretty much result in jail time, even though I only protected my family from someone who forcefully broke into my home. Pretty much the only scenario where I'd be allowed to use weapons, is when they're armed and shoot first.
  In fact what I'm supposed to do is retreating. Hiding, calling the police and wait until the burglars are long gone before they arrive. I'm not even allowed to capture the burglars by non violent means, like l
81. Re:Seems like freedom of speech to me by Plumpaquatsch · 2016-01-29 02:04 · Score: 1
  
  Seems like freedom of speech to me
  Funny, that's exactly what the SPAMers and telemarketers keep saying. Doesn't usually work in the US either.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Heil Amazon! by WillAffleckUW · 2016-01-25 07:41 · Score: 2

Jawohl, mein herr!
Fun fact: Amazon doesn't pay any taxes in Germany, they're all "profits" "realized" in Ireland.
Where it pays no taxes too.

--
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
1. Re:Heil Amazon! by prefec2 · 2016-01-25 08:08 · Score: 2
  
  While the whole thread is off topic, it is problematic when states are not well funded because some people and companies can sneak out with their money. Actually, it is stealing from the public and it shows that such people or companies do not care about other or the effects of their actions. In short they behave sociopathic. It also shows that they hope that others pa their taxes, because without funding the sate will collapse and there will be no schools, no food stamps (USA) and no minimal income (EU), no health care for everyone, no drinking water, no roads, no police, no money. Therefore, it is important to pay your taxes. Especially the social services help to stabilize a country and society. .
2. Re:Heil Amazon! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-25 08:35 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think Amazon has ever made any actual profits anywhere, it had a tiny profit last year, that's about it, so if your expecting to see "taxes" from Amazon, your out of luck. With that said, other than perhaps digital music, everyone in the EU still gets to pay VAT based on the country they are in, so "taxes" are still being collected from sales made on Amazon.
Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-25 07:42 · Score: 3, Informative

Seems like freedom of speech to me
All spammers could claim the same "freedom of speech" defence.
Fortunately the world is not quite stupid enough to accept that as a valid excuse for what is very clearly unsolicited advertising.
1. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by Sqr(twg) · 2016-01-25 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  Fortunately German courts are not quite stupid enough to accept that as a valid excuse for what is very clearly unsolicited advertising. (FTFY)
  In many countries, free speech wins over consumer protection. A notable example is the USA, where "corporations are people".
2. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by ScentCone · 2016-01-25 08:04 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Fortunately the world is not quite stupid enough to accept that as a valid excuse for what is very clearly unsolicited advertising.
  It's not unsolicited advertising. If you don't like seeing communication that the friends and contacts YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO HEAR FROM are sending out through deliberate action on their part, then you simply have poor choice in friends and are trying to blame someone else.
  
  --
  Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
3. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by MitchDev · 2016-01-25 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  After I ran out of points to upmod you with...
4. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by thoromyr · 2016-01-25 08:47 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  in what way is the advertising unsolicited? the receiver did not ask their friends to spam them.
  You wouldn't by any chance represent a sales or marketing type, would you? I had to deal with a spammer for a while (as in, supporting his activities). Even though he was buying software to harvest emails to send unwanted and unsolicited email, he too found ways to justify his activities.
  What was particularly memorable was dealing with his complaints about his spam being filtered out as being spam. He insisted and swore up and down that it wasn't. Unfortunately for him, spam filters are pretty good these days and even if *he* as the *sender* didn't feel like it was spam, the rest of the world disagreed.
  So, yes, it *is* unsolicited advertising. I'm glad you don't have my email address because by the sound of things you wouldn't honor any request to quit fucking spamming me.
5. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by dave1791 · 2016-01-25 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  This case is about the share button, when you buy something and the court is getting its knickers in a knot about nothing.
  In German culture, it would be crude and crass for someone to put that into their social media feed or send an email. The number of people who do this kind of thing is astonishingly small. That they actually felt the need to forbid it is the odd part. Then again, it should not surprise me that they'd mandate social norms. You are not allowed to give you kid a nontraditional name.
6. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by CanadianMacFan · 2016-01-25 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  It's not unsolicited advertising. It's an email from a friend that you don't give a shit about. Before Amazon provided an easy way for them to send the news of their recent order then they would have gone to their email client and sent you an email from there. You wouldn't have called that spam.
7. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by Anubis+IV · 2016-01-25 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  It's not unsolicited advertising. If you don't like seeing communication that the friends and contacts YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO HEAR FROM
  It must be nice living in the future. At least, I presume that's where you're EMPHATICALLY writing from, since here in the present, IMAP4 doesn't require that you Follow/Friend someone before they can e-mail you...which was one of the ways that this spam went out from Amazon.
8. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by ScentCone · 2016-01-25 09:57 · Score: 1
  
  It must be nice living in the future. At least, I presume that's where you're EMPHATICALLY writing from, since here in the present, IMAP4 doesn't require that you Follow/Friend someone before they can e-mail you...which was one of the ways that this spam went out from Amazon.
  The only time that such a message was produced in connection with a transaction at Amazon was when the person who BOUGHT the stuff at Amazon personally took the action of launching the notification to the people who follow them on social media. Amazon didn't dip into their mailboxes and spam anybody.
  
  --
  Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
9. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by angel'o'sphere · 2016-01-25 10:12 · Score: 1
  
  A german court does not do this on his own accord (would an US court?), someone sued Amazon, thats all. And the court ruled: what Amazon is doing is the same as spamming, regardless that a customer is clicking the button and a social media is distributing the 'mail' which clearly comes from: Amazon.
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
10. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by angel'o'sphere · 2016-01-25 10:18 · Score: 1
  
  So, then please explain me in your simple laymen words how a click of your friend on an Amazon web page leads to a 'mail' which you receive without involving Amazon sending that 'mail' to you?
  Magic?
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
11. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by kwbauer · 2016-01-25 12:22 · Score: 1
  
  From a guy who learns about court cases by reading blogs written by people with an agenda instead of reading court cases. The ruling you are referring to said nothing about corporations being people; it simply pointed out that corporations (especially corporations formed for the sole purpose of pooling money to make political speech) retain all the rights of the individual people that formed the corporation and directed the corporation to do something.
  The ruling also pointed out that all the idiot employees of left-leaning media corporations yammering on about how corporations should not be allowed to make political speech were being a bit hypocritical.
12. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by kwbauer · 2016-01-25 12:25 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, what the German court ruled is that a corporation has no right to ask a customer if the corporation should do some list processing on behalf of the customer. Everyone realizes that, even in Germany, rulings at that level are about legal principles and not about the two entities named in the case, right?
  Next up will be Microsoft and Google docs for providing mail merge functionality.
13. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by kwbauer · 2016-01-25 12:29 · Score: 1
  
  When you signed up for a social media account and said you were interested in seeing things that your friends posted, then yes, you solicited that communication. Do you have any clue what social media is and what it does?
  And if you were my "friend" and asked to be removed from my contacts list, yes, I would do that. As others have said, you have (had?) a crappy friend.
14. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by kwbauer · 2016-01-25 12:32 · Score: 1
  
  Obviously people are having trouble realizing that a person can actually ask another person to do something on their behalf and that sometimes the "person" being asked is just a machine. I guess Germany doesn't have realtors or any other form of sales agent.
15. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by kwbauer · 2016-01-25 12:34 · Score: 1
  
  In exactly what way is the ability to communicate with other humans not a human right?
  Exactly what category of right is freedom of speech if not a human right?
16. Re:Advertising is not a freedom of speech issue by Plumpaquatsch · 2016-01-29 02:18 · Score: 1
  
  Seems like freedom of speech to me
  All spammers could claim the same "freedom of speech" defence.
  Fortunately the world is not quite stupid enough to accept that as a valid excuse for what is very clearly unsolicited advertising.
  http://www.sci-tech-today.com/...
  MARCH 03 2008
  The Virginia Supreme Court has upheld the nation's first felony spam conviction. The ruling Friday decided Virginia's antispamming law does not infringe on the First Amendment right to free speech.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Probably badly translated by mseeger · 2016-01-25 08:00 · Score: 2

Court verdicts are not easy to read, but they managed to garble it further.
The verdict is not about sharing your purchases but the unsolicited sharing of offers from marketplace vendors.
FB/Twitter is understandable, but e-mail? by ocsibrm · 2016-01-25 08:01 · Score: 1

I don't think I've ever been so happy with a purchase that I felt the need to e-mail everyone in my contact list to let them know so I'm totally fine with that button getting removed. After all, that's what FB and Twitter are there for, bragging about dumb shit... Well that and reposting things that are easily disproved with 10 seconds of googling, at least if the average post from my extended family is any evidence.
great... by roc97007 · 2016-01-25 08:17 · Score: 1

So, when are they going to rule on all those pictures of meals on facebook. Like, yeah, wish you were here, but bring your AmEx black card.
A little more seriously, awhile back a relative enabled some odious Netflix feature that posted cover art and a Netflix-generated synopsis of every title he viewed. He watched a *lot* of Netflix. Man, that was annoying. I just turned off any contributions from his account in my news stream. Other family members unfriended him. But the point is, features like this that are completely machine generated are highly obnoxious. I'm not sure banning them is the answer, because I don't believe people should be protected from their own antisocial decisions, but I could see it happening.
I'm not sure why people would want this (amazon) feature anyway.
"I just bought a Sony X950B on Amazon!" (Cool. Where do you live again?)
Recent purchases:
Sony BDPS3500 Blu-ray Player
"Circle of two" unrated version
60 count Horny Goat Weed Extract
...sounds like someone is having a party...

--
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
1. Re:great... by godrik · 2016-01-25 08:25 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly, it reminds me of the bad old (clearly not good old) "I am listening to Britey Spears - Baby One More Time.mp3" we use to see every 3 minutes on IRC.
  No one gives a shit...
2. Re:great... by vux984 · 2016-01-25 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not sure why people would want this (amazon) feature anyway.
  "I just bought a Sony X950B on Amazon!"
  Heh, I've already seen it "ruin" Christmas gifts for a few people. Not due to the email spam, but the recently purchased items stuff etc.
  God forbid a whole household use the same tablets or laptops.
3. Re:great... by roc97007 · 2016-01-25 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly, it reminds me of the bad old (clearly not good old) "I am listening to Britey Spears - Baby One More Time.mp3" we use to see every 3 minutes on IRC.
  No one gives a shit...
  Agreed. Except that, you have to feel a little sorry for someone so culturally bereft.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Next up: Social media "likes"? by Entrope · 2016-01-25 08:18 · Score: 1

If this counts as harassment and unsolicited advertisements, why not the junk that fills up my feed when a social media contact "likes" some commercial speech, and MyLinkedFace+ copies the original to what I see? I could get behind that kind of rationale to block the stupid viral content that I often see.
1. Re:Next up: Social media "likes"? by LaurenCates · 2016-01-25 08:25 · Score: 1
  
  Or those stupid "what does this internet quiz say about you" things that people share because they want you to be as fascinated with themselves as they are.
  
  --
  Some people don't believe in fairies. I don't believe in The Patriarchy.
2. Re:Next up: Social media "likes"? by rhazz · 2016-01-25 08:37 · Score: 1
  
  Because you opted in to seeing ads on social media, simply by signing up for it. When you sign up for an email account from say, Google, you are not providing consent to Amazon to send you advertisements even if your friends really think you want something.
3. Re:Next up: Social media "likes"? by squiggleslash · 2016-01-25 08:41 · Score: 2
  
  Because it's not email?
  The only mention of Facebook, Twitter, et al above is in the description of the service Amazon provides. The court has only ruled ONE function of that service to be spam - the sending of that message via email.
  email is subject to a lot of anti-spam regulations in most of Western Europe and North America right now. This ruling shouldn't really surprise anyone. It'd be interesting to see whether Amazon's current emails actually comply with CAN SPAM (they probably do, it's a weak act, and largely based upon an opt-out view of the world, but that said, Amazon does have to provide an opt-out mechanism and honor it, without checking emails I've had from the service I can't say.)
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
4. Re: Next up: Social media "likes"? by Entrope · 2016-01-25 08:43 · Score: 1
  
  That makes no sense. If I opted in to see ads, I opted in. Whether they come direct from Amazon or via Google is immaterial.
5. Re:Next up: Social media "likes"? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-01-25 09:29 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, in Denmark if you ask your Facebook "fans" to like something and promise them something in return (a lottery ticket for whatever you are selling), you are considered to be paying people to spam. The people who like your post is liable too.
6. Re: Next up: Social media "likes"? by Kjella · 2016-01-25 11:49 · Score: 2
  
  That makes no sense. If I opted in to see ads, I opted in. Whether they come direct from Amazon or via Google is immaterial.
  No, the question is if there's a valid chain of agreements between the advertiser and the recipient. If Amazon buys ad space on Facebook and I have agreed through their terms of service to receive ads, the chain is valid. Obviously that right doesn't extend to Facebook users in general, if you sign up a spambot of course it's unsolicited because I agreed to receive ads but not from you. So did you in the friend request get explicit permission to send/forward commercial email to me? If not, then you don't have it at least in Germany. And that means Amazon doesn't have it either, you can't get my permission from my friend.
  Or the TL;DR version:
  Amazon <--- permission ---> Facebook <--- permission ---> you = OK
  Amazon <--- permission ---> Facebook "friend" <--- no permission ---> you = NOT OK
  
  --
  Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
7. Re: Next up: Social media "likes"? by Entrope · 2016-01-25 12:21 · Score: 2
  
  That still doesn't make sense, unless you mean to say that my friends don't have permission to send me emails, which is clearly an untenable proposition. In this situation, Amazon is suggesting and facilitating the sending of an email by my friend, which is almost exactly the same as something showing up on my social event stream -- Facebook suggests and facilitates the "like" being sent, Amazon suggests and facilitates the "email" being sent.
8. Re: Next up: Social media "likes"? by ACE209 · 2016-01-26 00:44 · Score: 1
  
  Only YOU can decide to allow advertising from a certain company.
  Your "friends" cannot make that decision for you. As simple as that.
  
  --
  "we are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
If one has a first amendment, that is by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2016-01-25 08:26 · Score: 1

This is where a court needs to use the First Amendment to break necks of the government.
Government deciding I may not tell friends about something? Ummmm, no.

--
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Re:is this REALLY the business of the government? by pecosdave · 2016-01-25 09:22 · Score: 1

I found one of their "share this purchase" things so hilarious I took a screen shot.
I bought a bunch of syringes for putting epoxy in fiber optic connectors. A perfectly legitimate purchase on the company dime but somehow "share this purchase with your friends and family" with a picture of a bunch of epoxy needles just seemed so wrong, hard to explain, and out of place I had to take a screen shot.

--
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Re:Europe by desdinova+216 · 2016-01-25 10:52 · Score: 1

odd, I thought it was because of the **AA's
Re:Opt-out by kwbauer · 2016-01-25 13:11 · Score: 1

Uh, not exactly. If I direct Amazon to act on my behalf, it is me.
Let's try this to see how hiring someone to act on your behalf still means that you did it. I don't like Joe. I don't like Joe so much that I hire Fred to murder Joe. Fred murders Joe. Fred gets caught and snitches on me. I do all of this in Germany. Does the German government all of a sudden realize that there is nothing they can do about me because I was smart enough to hire Fred or does the German government also claim I am guilty of murder? If this were to happen in the US, I would be guilty of the murder itself as well as the conspiracy to commit it and the hiring it out. Maybe in Germany it doesn't matter so they only get me for the conspiracy and hiring part.
If you dig deeper by tele · 2016-01-25 19:12 · Score: 1

If you dig deeper, you'll find some more details about the reason behind the ruling. The problem isn't really the sending of the mail as such, but the fact that Amazon can collect the email addresses of non-clients and (maybe) use them in future marketing campaigns (aka spam). If these recommendation links on the Amazon website would open a "New Message" window in your own mail software instead, there probably wouldn't be a problem (but this would be a real challenge to implement across all platforms).
1. Re:If you dig deeper by ledow · 2016-01-25 20:21 · Score: 2
  
  EU data protection law simply doesn't allow that.
  They do not have permission to email that address from the OWNER of that address. This is already well-established.
  But that doesn't affect anything like someone sharing on their own Facebook, via their own Facebook account. It's an entirely different process.
  You can't give someone else permission to email me or see my Facebook. Only I can do that. But that doesn't affect what you spam on your own timeline.
Uhmmmmmm by Vinegar+Joe · 2016-01-25 20:08 · Score: 1

Doesn't Germany have other more pressing issues to worry about than Amazon?

--
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
1. Re:Uhmmmmmm by ACE209 · 2016-01-26 01:28 · Score: 1
  
  I know the article leaves the impression there was only a single court concerned with this.
  But of course this couldn't fool someone clever like you.
  In fact the Bundestag is in an ongoing three day meeting concerning the Amazon problematic.
  And even at work all meetings for the rest of the week are about Amazon.
  So - no - of course we have no more pressing issues.
  
  --
  "we are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."