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The Feds' Freeway Font Flip-Flop (citylab.com)

McGruber writes: Citylab has the news that the U.S. Federal Highway Administration is revoking its 2004 approval of the "Clearview" font for road signs. Clearview was made to improve upon its predecessor, a 1940s font called Highway Gothic. Certain letters appeared to pose visibility problems, especially those with tight interstices (or internal spacing)—namely lowercase e, a, and s. At night, any of these reflective letters might appear to be a lowercase o in the glare of headlights. By opening up these letterforms, and mixing lowercase and uppercase styles, Clearview aimed to improve how these reflective highway signs read.

Now, just 12 years later, the FHWA is reversing itself: "After more than a decade of analysis, we learned—among other things—that Clearview actually compromises the legibility of signs in negative-contrast color orientations, such as those with black letters on white or yellow backgrounds like Speed Limit and Warning signs," said Doug Hecox, a FHWA spokesperson, in an email. The FHWA has not yet provided any research on Clearview that disproves the early claims about the font's benefits. But there is at least one factor that clearly distinguishes it from Highway Gothic: cost. Jurisdictions that adopt Clearview must purchase a standard license for type, a one-time charge of between $175 (for one font) and $795 (for the full 13-font typeface family) and up, depending on the number of workstations.

That doesn't seems like a very good use of tax money, for something that can be nondestructively reused once created.

29 of 182 comments (clear)

  1. duh by blackomegax · · Score: 5, Insightful

    switch to an open source font.

    1. Re:duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You communist ! Wingdings all the way !

    2. Re:duh by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I was going to vote for Comic Sans myself. Somehow, it seems appropriate.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    3. Re:duh by msauve · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dingbats is the official typeface of Congress.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    4. Re:duh by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 5, Informative

      Open Source highway gothic font created by Red Hat.

      http://overpassfont.org/

      Problem solved.

      Another link: http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fo...

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    5. Re:duh by amicusNYCL · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why? For purpose? To save $175?

      It's $795 for all of the various sign fonts in the family, and that's assuming you have a single computer where they create signs. If your state has between 86 and 90 computers that can do that, then it's over $10,000. That's obviously not a ton of money when you're talking about government, but it still adds up.

      A shitty font because people who are good at spending the many long hours of work required to make good fonts DONT FUCKING DO IT FOR FREE.

      Overpass isn't a bad font, and there are in fact many skilled people who do in fact donate their time to various things. If you could have your work showcased on road signs all across the country, would you do that for free? These people decided that, yes, they would do it for free, even without a guarantee that it would be used.

      Force the graphics artist to deal with some half assed font package in order to get your OSS font

      Right, like the little-used and poorly-supported TTF format.

      as far as fonts are concerned, OSS is absolute shit.

      Bistream Vera is pretty good, the sans mono version is a great one for programming.

      Cause if so your cutting off you're nose to spite you're ignorant face.

      FTFY

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    6. Re:duh by tepples · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you love Comic Sans, or if you hate Comic Sans, have a look at what Comic Sans wanted to be when it grew up: Comic Neue.

      You should also take a look at the Filmotype Apache/August/Beaver family. It's a "casual serif", which has been digitized under the names URW Apache, Panache Stanley and Sixpack, Cochise, Toledo, and Jester. Respected businesses use this family for their corporate branding, including ABCmouse Early Learning Academy and Harris Teeter Neighborhood Food and Pharmacy. It balances the bounciness and honesty of a hand-lettering typeface and the form variety of a dyslexia-friendly typeface with the dignity of a serif, and the best part is that it isn't Comic Sans.

    7. Re:duh by KGIII · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You know... I've actually had serious conversations with serious people about the font used on signs. It is not, technically, my area of expertise but I'm expected to know it, have hired someone familiar with it, or to have a consultant on hand for it. Well no, now I'm expected to be retired...

      While I realize you were joking... How familiar are people with it? How well is its contrast with the various lighting expectations? How much information can be conveyed in the same space?

      Given my druthers, and not being an expert, I'd like to see Helvetica be tested for use. So long as certain highways (namely those that are federally owned and under their authority) meet a minimal criteria, the municipality is allowed to enact most anything it wants. Of course, wide variations would be bad as they would lead to confusion and unfamiliarity.

      For the English language, Helvetica seems to be a good choice. If, on the off chance, you're interested - there's actually a movie by that name. It's a documentary (of course, that's all I watch) and surprisingly interesting and informative. I watched it because I knew a bit about it but it turned out to be much better than one might expect. (A documentary about fonts???)

      I'm also partial to some of the Ariel (or is it Arial) fonts. I'm not sure that they'd make good signage due to their width of the letter body (those crazy bastards have a specific name for all that stuff - including stuff like serifs, kerning, etc) and I'm not sure about Helvetica - I am not an expert. I have hired and consulted with experts and passed their recommendations along. (Usually it's basically, "How the hell should I know and it's not like they're actually going to listen. Go with the default. At least it works.) So, my suggestion is that they look into it. I'd hate to make an authoritative statement when I am not, in fact, an authority.

      In the course of my professional career, I've had many discussions about signs and their fonts. No, I did not recommend the font you hate. That was some other guy or they didn't listen to me. It's never my fault, after all. I did not, however, expect to see it on Slashdot - ever. I didn't even submit this. So, if you have any questions about fonts and signage, I'm sure plenty of people here have an opinion on the matter. Me? I've really only got suggestions. There exist actual experts on this topic. I kind of doubt any of us are. I'm moderately familiar so I'm sure I'll be amused by the contents of the thread.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    8. Re:duh by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem is that some of the "uniqueness" / charm of Comic Sans is lost with Comic Neue.

      Whether you think this is a good thing (or bad) thing will depend if you hate (or like) hate Comic Sans, respectively.

      The problem is when you "quantize" the glyph's strokes the font becomes "sterile" and loses that "human touch" or aspect.

      To give an analogy, there is a reason music is NOT _precisely_ played on the beat; a human has some very subtle variation giving it a "organic" feel. Once you quantize everything to _precisely_ 1 / # ms music sounds "robotic", sterile, bland. Even more so with swing.

      I agree with this analysis:

      So, the story of Comic Sans is not that of a really terrible font, but rather of a mediocre font, used incorrectly on a massive scale.

      The problem with all the people hating Comic Sans is that:

      a) they tend to be self-righteous, pretentious font connoisseurs, and
      b) Not realizing "Most People Don't Give a Fuck."

      I'm not defending Comic Sans saying it is a great font -- it isn't. It's kerning sucks.

      But to blinding hate a font without understanding what few (or even one) strengths it has is just plain ignorance.

      That Comic Neue website is not bad, but it really needs to show the context of all three fonts (Comic Sans, Comic Neue Light, and Comic Neue Angular Light), so people can specifically see what is different / changed.

    9. Re:duh by KGIII · · Score: 2

      So long as their signs are in English, that'd be a good idea. Non-English fonts will not have (necessarily) the same appeal - even if they have English characters.

      I shit you not, there are people who have devoted their entire careers to this. They often have a font portfolio (observation) that they're excited to show you. They have a few that are "going to be a real impact some day." I've gotten drunk with some and even paid for all the drinks.

      Ever want to get to know a new industry? Take a few of the people who work in it out and ply them with booze - especially if it's not a very popular industry. They'll tell you all that you wanted to know and you can learn some interesting things. It works anywhere that you speak the language, but with diminishing returns. I have been using this mechanism to understand the basics of trades since I was old enough to drink. It has generally been successful and works in a whole variety of situations.

      So, I've gotten drunk with the people who make the fonts you see on signs. They don't (usually) make just highway signs and even fewer make just fonts. If you look hard enough, tucked inside of an office - probably in the back or in the basement, is someone who actually is dedicated to making fonts and employed by a single municipality. I've yet to meet that person but I am assured they exist. I allow my imagination to work.

      You see the last type at very large (or inefficient) municipalities that have their own everything department. They don't just have a highway department, they have a highway paint department, *multiple* signage departments, workers, and workers beneath them. See, New Jersey, Georgia, and Pennsylvania for examples that have cities with such monsters hidden in their basements or working directly for the State.

      So, depending on where you live, you may actually be paying someone who does absolutely nothing but design, approve, recommend, and investigate fonts used on street signs. I have never met such a critter but I'm assured they exist. You might even be paying two, or more...

      Someone, just the other day, was telling me that municipalities weren't that bad and I was unable to give a good example. This? This is a good example. It's worse when you HAVE to await their approval and you've not only not met them - nobody seems to know where this person's office is and the phone calls haven't been returned in two weeks. Why do you need their approval (when you're not changing or recommending changing a damned thing?) because, fuck you, that's why.

      Oh, I can rant on this subject. ;-) Boy have I got some stories for this subject. Hey, it's not exactly often that something this closely related to my career pops up and, for a change, I actually know a wee bit instead of always asking you guys why a global variable is wrong or how to cross-compile to run on the next(ish) x64 from ARM.

      And, seeing as I'm here, I can't count the many things I've learned by getting people drunk. Seriously, if you're a manager, get a couple of the people that you interact with together and get them drunk. If you're hiring a new company, get a couple of their workers (not the management) drunk. Yes, it looks odd - try it like this, "Hey, so, I like to learn about the industries we work with and no, not your corporate secrets. I'd like to take a couple of workers out to dinner as my way of paying them for getting me up to speed on the complexity of your business. No, not the boss... No, not the manager. Seriously, the guy who empties the trash is fine..."

      You'd be amazed what you'll learn about the business, the domain, and the person. They all want to talk. They all want to be listened to. Get 'em drunk and give them the chance - and actually BE interested in what they're saying. It'll make you a more knowledgeable person and a better manager for it. You'll learn not just about the industry but about the business itself. You'll learn about the people who will be doing things with your name attached. You'll understand their prob

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  2. I'm a republican ... by seth_hartbecke · · Score: 5, Interesting

    .. and very pro capitalism, etc bla bla.

    But ... common ... how can our Federal Highway Administration go about researching and the setting a standard for a font ... and then be so stupid as to not procure rights to that font and then license them to every other agency/company at no cost?

    As a republican ... this is the kind of thing I expect my government TO do. I know wikipedia says "It was developed by independent researchers with the help of the Texas Transportation Institute and the Pennsylvania Transportation Institute, under the supervision of the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA)," why didn't any of these agencies say "So ... we're going to pay you a huge pile of money ... once ... for this font."

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    END
    1. Re:I'm a republican ... by parkinglot777 · · Score: 2

      Here is my simple answer... If you expect things to happen the way you want AFTER a bad consequence occurs, then you will ALWAYS see it over and over again. Besides, not everyone who has authority could always make the right decision at the time given. However, the CURRENT one is usually being blamed on...

    2. Re:I'm a republican ... by DewDude · · Score: 3, Insightful

      why didn't any of these agencies say "So ... we're going to pay you a huge pile of money ... once ... for this font."

      Because spending large piles of money is exactly what Republican's don't want to do; plus, being pro-business, it was in their interests to let some third-party company profit from this mandate. I also don't think it was a required mandate or a standard; if a jurisdiction didn't want to pay for Clearview, they could probably still use Highway Gothic. Clearview was just the other approved font.

    3. Re:I'm a republican ... by bobbied · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As a republican too, I can explain why they didn't secure the license for the font they paid to develop.... It's government stupidity silly.

      You see, the government wastes money, and time in abundance while producing garbage because there is no real motivation to be efficient and quick or to fulfill the users' needs built into the system. This is unlike capitalism where being efficient and fast is considered a virtue and if you don't produce what the consumer wants you die.... Well, unless you are "to big to fail" or some group of progressives get the idea they have to bail you out....

      But you knew that anyway....

      Personally, I think that anything like this, fonts, software, data collections that the government pays to get developed should be made available to the general public by default. All contracts should have boilerplate language designed to ensure this. Only things related to national security and defense should be allowed to remain out of the public eye, but even those should be "FREE of license costs" forever.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    4. Re:I'm a republican ... by edittard · · Score: 2

      You didn't notice the tragedy of the come on?

      --
      At the bottom of the /. main page it says 'Yesterday's News'. Well they got that right.
    5. Re:I'm a republican ... by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      and if you don't produce what the consumer wants you die

      Fucking explain DRM then.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    6. Re:I'm a republican ... by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, if you want to play R vs. D...

      In 2004, when this was approved, the President (George W. Bush) was a republican. So, ah ha!

      Of course, in 2004, the Secretary of Transportation (Norman Mineta) was a democrat. So, ah ha!

      In other words, at least in this case, it's kind of silly to play "R vs. D," unless you want to say that "they both do it."

    7. Re:I'm a republican ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We're not the consumer of DRM schemes.

  3. Licensing? by Holi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why is the government licensing a font from a commercial vendor? Wouldn't a more cost effective approach be to have one designed as a work for hire so they own the copyright making it public domahttp://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/02/01/199201/the-feds-freeway-font-flip-flop#in (since the public is paying for it).

    --
    Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    1. Re:Licensing? by Holi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why is the government licensing a font from a commercial vendor? Wouldn't a more cost effective approach be to have one designed as a work for hire so they own the copyright making it public domain (since the public is paying for it). Re posting since a bunch of crap got added to my previous post.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    2. Re:Licensing? by zlives · · Score: 3, Funny

      government ... cost effective approach ... error cannot compute.... thus all the crap added to your post :)

    3. Re:Licensing? by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      You mean something like the UK did in the middle of last century?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Just remember that the US doesn't have to do what other countries do. Therefore, it follows that they can only do what other countries haven't done.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  4. Well... by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That doesn't seems like a very good use of tax money, for something that can be nondestructively reused once created.

    True, but it's a relatively small amount of money. It's not completely out of whack with what commercial enterprises pay for non-free fonts. And, to be honest, if someone invested in this project thinking "Hmm, if I invest on research into improving something with a direct affect on road safety and transportation efficiency, I'll make money!" that's... not a bad thing. Beats "Hmm, if I invest in research on blowing people up, the government will give me money!" anyway.

    Copyright isn't a terrible idea, just one that's abused from time to time. The target audience for this font can easily afford the money they're asking for, and it's a worthy product if the font does what it's designed to do. (Whether that's true is a separate issue from "Should we occasionally pay for fonts?")

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    1. Re:Well... by vux984 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not completely out of whack with what commercial enterprises pay for non-free fonts

      Except it is totally out of what. Normal fonts are created speculatively and then licensed to interested parties.

      This font was practically a work for hire in everything but name, I wouldn't be surprised to hear they were actually paid to create it up front, and then now we still have to license it back, for a font that's standardized accross a nationwide highway network... the purpose for which it was originally commissioned.

      WORST case it should be licensed once for the nations highways. Period. If the designer wants to go out and try and license it to Mexico too.. that's fine, but the USA should only have to pay once to use it on any signage anywhere it wants. Forever.

  5. Copyright reform: Aye... but also economics reform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Those prices are down right cheap. some fonts are $1000/per use one billboard is a use, one street sign is a use. But cumulatively it adds up to a whole lot of money for tax payers.

    So lets agree there are two dimensions to this argument whether the Clearview font is superior which is the bulk of the article and whether the flame bait trailing paragraph means that we need to fix the economics.

    Designing a font is a lot more work than you think if your goal is something legible unlike say Comic Sans. Designers should be compensated. I like to be paid for my work. It lets me eat. But the royalty model is perhaps broken. Alternatively the price is broken... There are many municipal sign shops unlike printers... probably be just Google and Apple licensing fonts for print production in the near future after they take over the remnants of Xerox. So street sign fonts should maybe be $1 to many municipalities while print (dead tree type) fonts should maybe be $2mil per licensee? Or perhaps better the government could have commissioned the font and then provided it to any municipality.

    As to the merits of Clearview? I think the font is too light in the default weight. I have no research to back this up just 10yrs of gut experience. It does not exist in weights suitable for street name signs... which makes me leery of suggesting it to my municipality for use. It does have more open vowel glyphs and as such is an improvement over the Highway Gothic, though most people do not read character glyph at a time while driving... they look for word outlines, so perhaps that doesn't matter. Then again my mother slows down to read highway signs because she has trouble with is that an 'e' or an 'o'.

    My thoughts? The Obama administration could do worse with its money than running a design a replacement highway font contest. Prize: $100,000, 2nd and 3rd runners up $30,000 and $15,000 but the font must be made available license free within the US at least. Have Google Manage distribution and grant $1,000,000 to PennDOT to test. (Unlike other DOT's PennDot can actually do this work... don't ask me about DOT's in the South wow... just wow...)

  6. In related news ... by PPH · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... Caltrans is sticking with its time-tested custom font

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  7. Rip-off by AndyKron · · Score: 2

    Per fucking workstation. And this rip-off has been going on for how many years?

  8. Something less than a rounding error. by westlake · · Score: 4, Informative

    Jurisdictions that adopt Clearview must purchase a standard license for type, a one-time charge of between $175 (for one font) and $795 (for the full 13-font typeface family) and up, depending on the number of workstations.

    That doesn't seems like a very good use of tax money, for something that can be nondestructively reused once created.

    To install a sign:

    All costs listed are for a complete sign assembly in place, including all legend, fabricating, transportation, labor, hardware, and painting of posts.

    Sign panels:

    Regulatory/Warning/Marker: $15 to 18 / sq.ft.
    Large Guide Signs: $20 to 25 / sq.ft.
    Electronic Variable Message Sign: $50,000 to $150,000 each.

    Sign Posts:

    U-Channel: $125 to $200 each
    Square Tube (Telespar): $10 to $15 per foot
    Large Steel Breakaway Posts: $15 to $30 per foot
    Cantilever Sign: $15,000 to $20,000 each
    Sign Bridge: $30,000 to $60,000 each

    Foundations:

    Square Tube: $150 - $250 each
    Breakaway Post: $250 to $750 each
    Cantilever / Bridge: $6,000 - $7,000 each

    STOP signs are considered among the most expensive signs. Due to their critical importance in intersection safety, they must be replaced as soon as is reasonably feasible - even if that means driving 300+ miles round trip at 3 AM, at $1.00 per mile for the truck, and $25-$40 per hour overtime for each sign crewperson. Taking this into account, a simple $75 STOP sign suddenly becomes a $500+ item.

    Engineering costs with respect to signing are more difficult to define. If a 3 month study results in installation of only 3 signs, it may not be equitable to charge the whole egineering cost to those installations. Normally, engineering costs are treated separately, but if there is a need to take them into account, then a rule of thumb estimate is engineering cost = 10% to 15% of construction cost.

    Costs of Traffic Signs

  9. Surprise: font doesn't work well when misused by XNormal · · Score: 2

    The font was designed for reflective white on green. The legibility studies are invalid for black on yellow.

    I guess the font designers should have foreseen this and designed a family of two fonts called "negative" and "positive", but I cannot really fault them for failing to fully appreciate the magnitude of human incompetence.

    --
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