Linux Mint Hack Is an Indicator of a Larger Problem (techrepublic.com)

Wake me by XXongo · 2016-02-24 08:19 · Score: 4, Funny

Wake me up when they hack the Denver mint.

Re:Wake me by NotDrWho · 2016-02-24 09:30 · Score: 1, Offtopic

As long as the Franklin Mint is okay, then I'm fine. I'm in too deep with them. I've got all my entire retirement invested in their Princess Diana commemorative plates. THEY CAN'T BE ALLOWED TO FAIL!

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Re:Wake me by avgjoe62 · 2016-02-24 10:26 · Score: 1

You're thinking about this wrong. You WANT the Franklin Mint to fail. Look at what happens to the prices of an artist's work when they die.

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How come Slashdot never gets Slashdotted?
Re:Wake me by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 10:40 · Score: 0

That's funny. My mom was huge into their products. Of course, most of their
stuff has the value of scrap metal, but there was a very small window of time when
you could actually make a profit on their stuff. When they first started hawking their
series of X number of coins, 1 each month at a guaranteed price, the price of silver
was very stable. Then suddenly, it shot up. I sure the Franklin mint lost a ton of
money because they were obligated to continue the series at the original issue price!
After that, they included language that allowed for the fluctuation in the price of silver
in their "contracts".
CAP === 'guiding'
Re:Wake me by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 13:31 · Score: 0

there was a very small window of time when you could actually make a profit on their stuff.
Beanie Babies, too...

"for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:19 · Score: 0

Now there's your problem!

Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-24 08:23 · Score: -1, Troll

Non-technical users should use a Mac, as it simply works.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:31 · Score: 5, Interesting

Non-technical users should use a Mac, as it simply works.
I wish this was true so I wouldn't have to deal with so many support requests from Mac users.
Re:"for non-technical users" by CaptSlaq · 2016-02-24 08:33 · Score: 2

Non-technical users should use a Mac, as it simply works.
"Non-technical users should use $WHAT_I_THINK_IS_BEST_FOR_THEM_BECAUSE_I_UNDERSTAND_ALL_USE_CASES as it simply works". Gotcha.
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-24 08:41 · Score: 0

I wish this was true so I wouldn't have to deal with so many support requests from Mac users.
Deleting the preference file because iTunes stops working doesn't count as a support request. Something I had to do all the time at one Fortune 500 company because I was the only Windows tech with Mac experience.
Re:"for non-technical users" by parkinglot777 · 2016-02-24 08:45 · Score: 1

Non-technical users should use a Mac, as it simply works.
Well, the problem is that the cost to buy (including maintenance) a Mac is a lot more expensive than to buy a PC... $500 may be little to you, but it could be a much higher value to many others...
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-24 08:47 · Score: 2, Interesting

"Non-technical users should use $WHAT_I_THINK_IS_BEST_FOR_THEM_BECAUSE_I_UNDERSTAND_ALL_USE_CASES as it simply works". Gotcha.
Some of the better IT shops are giving users the choice between Mac and PC. From what I've seen in the field, non-technical users and engineers prefer the Mac. Macs and PCs are pretty much interchangeable these days.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:55 · Score: 1

Please realise. There is no secure way for a non technical user to install new software on a mac. Where you or I use

aptitude install libreoffice

and the software comes, beginners need an interface like Ubuntu Software Centre or Android Play. Without it they just have to download and install random things from the web. On a Mac if you want to be secure, you have to know how to get checksums off the internet, check them, verify the source, know who writes and distributes what software.
Macs are really only suitable for top level security experts. Certainly not non-technical users.
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-24 08:56 · Score: 1

Well, the problem is that the cost to buy (including maintenance) a Mac is a lot more expensive than to buy a PC.
My 2006 MacBook lasted for eight years. The only reason I retired it so soon is because it had a 32-bit processor and many of the programs I've used stopped upgrading the 32-bit version. The only repair job I had was a replacement fan and a new battery in 2014. Most Macs maintain high resale values because they're better made than many PCs.
Re:"for non-technical users" by farrellj · 2016-02-24 09:04 · Score: 4, Informative

You mean like the Anonymous Coward who says "graphical utilities don't update the kernel"
This person should simply click the Mint update manager on their bar which brings up the graphical Update Manager Window. Then you click "View", and from that drop-down menu select "Linux Kernels". From there you can choose from all of the available kernels for Linux Mint.
I don't know about you, but that is certainly looks fairly graphical to me!

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CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-24 09:04 · Score: 2

Macs are really only suitable for top level security experts. Certainly not non-technical users.
You obviously haven't spend much time at an Apple Store. I seriously doubt that Grandma is a top level security expert.
Re:"for non-technical users" by jedidiah · 2016-02-24 09:06 · Score: 1

My Minis didn't last anywhere near that long. Comparable PCs have outlasted them by a wide margin. Normal PCs just keep on chugging along until you don't know what to do with them any more.
Plus you can upgrade them (PCs) and extend their useful lifespan even further, long after a Mac would be an obsolescence driven doorstop.

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A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Re: "for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:08 · Score: 1

I see your comment and add that I have been using a G4 mac mini up until last month as media center but only because it doesn't like the new router because appart from not booting when connected to the new router it still works fine.
Re: "for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:12 · Score: 1

Manual process, that's not user friendly - how many non-technical users would know what a "kernel" is, let alone be able to judge what one to install?
Re:"for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:24 · Score: 0

Do you actually believe that PCs are made like crap compared to Macs when they both use the same parts? If we're going with anecdotes, I build a computer in the early 2000's, I can't remember exact year, but I do remember it was when the Intel P4 2.4GHz chip was a new chip since that's what it runs. Sold it to my brother when I upgraded. He's still using it as his primary computer. What is that, 14 years or so? Didn't even need to replace any fans.
Re:"for non-technical users" by WarJolt · 2016-02-24 09:30 · Score: 4, Interesting

Macs and PCs are pretty much interchangeable these days.
Not really. Macs require a much more current IT staff. Unfortunately many IT departments have been force fed the Microsoft dribble for so long that they don't know what real IT looks like. Adding Macs to corporate infrastructure should be done carefully.
It's not about the user or the OS. It's about the infrastructure behind it.
Re:"for non-technical users" by squiggleslash · 2016-02-24 09:35 · Score: 1

I know you're making a joke, but FWIW both Mac OS X and Windowses 8 through 10 come with app stores now.

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You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:"for non-technical users" by fremsley471 · 2016-02-24 09:36 · Score: 4, Informative

Oh for mod points. Amen.
"Non-technical users"? Fuck off. It's an OS that is designed to be used, not endlessly fiddled with. But for some self-appointed gatekeepers, that's somehow become an unbearable eternal-September thing for linux.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:45 · Score: 1

I support a non-profit with about 150 users. About 75% of these are Macs. I've been in IT since the late 90 and here is what I've seen:
- Apple HW, in general, is more prone to errors than PC HW.
- Microsoft SW, in general, is more prone to errors than Apple SW.
I will take a Mac any day. Why? As an IT guy, it has a proper command line environment. Don't even mention PowerShell. I tried it and it feels awkward compared to BASH, Perl, and Python, which are the three I'm comfy with.
Apple controls the HW and SW stack, and arguably is more stable. As a former UNIX admin, I prefer anything POSIX- or UNIX-like over alternatives.
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-24 10:00 · Score: 1

Do you actually believe that PCs are made like crap compared to Macs when they both use the same parts?
The Dell, HP and Lenovo laptops that are issued to non-technical workers in a corporate environment are typically crap. A comparable Mac laptop is better engineered and last longer. My company recently gave me a $3,000 Dell laptop as a desktop replacement, which is much better engineered than any Mac Pro laptop that I ever used.

He's still using it as his primary computer.
My nine-years-old gaming system is still using the original AMD 690 motherboard and DDR2 memory, second processor (dual core to quad core), and fourth OS (Windows Vista to Windows 10). Long overdue for an upgrade. I could get an AMD 970 motherboard and DDR3 memory to extend its useful. I'm waiting to see how AMD Zen plays out this year. You typically don't buy Macs to play high-end games on.

What is that, 14 years or so? Didn't even need to replace any fans.
I once opened up a ten-year-old Windows 98 system at a job, and found a softball-sized dust ball underneath the fan intake.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Cruciform · 2016-02-24 10:05 · Score: 2

I'm using Windows 10, but I'll use whatever is in front of me if it does the job. I gave my father my Mac mini when it was no longer fast enough for me, and he's required virtually no tech support in the years since, other than doing a fresh install of Mavericks for him.
What I'd like is to have OSX on my parts-built PC without doing a Hackintosh. Apple should know by now that opening up the OS to other hardware would mean making even more off the App Store.
My only caveat for friends who look at buying Mac is to never, ever buy first generation hardware. Wait six months. There's always something wrong with the first generation of the latest "hot and sexy" out of Apple. But they figure it out.
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-24 10:13 · Score: 4, Funny

Macs require a much more current IT staff.
A tech manager who been with the company for 15+ years recently threw a fit. He was trying to replace the hard drive in a new Dell laptop. There was no slot for the 2.5" hard drive he wanted to install. He took the whole laptop apart and couldn't find the hard drive. Some of the techs pointed out a card on the logic board that was the new hard drive standard. He screamed that the card was the wireless card, and got madder when they pointed to the wireless card with the antenna connections. The laptop remains on the back shelf because he can't fix it with a standard 2.5" hard drive.
If the IT department is not current, it's a management problem and not a technology problem.
Re:"for non-technical users" by SStrungis · 2016-02-24 10:14 · Score: 2

Bless tech support, of course. But you can't fix stupid. I am working with someone who wants a new win install, but does not know how to boot from CD.
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-24 10:22 · Score: 3, Insightful

Apple should know by now that opening up the OS to other hardware would mean making even more off the App Store.
Apple tried licensing to third-party hardware makers and saw their hardware sales decline as the cheaper Macs became popular. That was the first thing Steve Jobs killed off when he came back to Apple.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Cruciform · 2016-02-24 10:30 · Score: 1

That was two decades before the App Store came into being. The slice they take on that would make up for the hardware sales now easily.
Windows 10 will pay for itself out of its own App Store and MS knows it.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 10:37 · Score: 0

And OS X enforces app signing and such by default unless you disable this option in settings.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Blaskowicz · 2016-02-24 10:40 · Score: 1

You can get 4GB DDR2 sticks of memory from ebay for real cheap (a pair of them). They only run on AMD deskops.
Re: "for non-technical users" by steveg · 2016-02-24 10:44 · Score: 2

That's why they do it. The official line is "Don't replace the kernel unless you have a reason to."
Kernels update automatically as part of the graphical process. The kernel replacement procedure above is to change kernel versions. I've currently go 3.16.0-38 installed. As long as I don't do anything, any updates to 3.16.0-38 will automatically be installed.
If I want a newer version of the kernel I can bring up the kernel upgrade dialog mentioned above and scroll down through all the available kernels. I note that 3.19.0-33 has a check mark in the "recommended" column. Versions up to 4.2.0-30 are in the list, but only certain ones have the "recommended" status.
Seems user-friendly enough to me. Enough detail to help someone who wants to upgrade, hidden enough to discourage someone who really shouldn't, and automatic enough to keep the current version safely up to date.

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Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-24 10:46 · Score: 1

Windows 10 will pay for itself out of its own App Store and MS knows it.
I ignore the App Stores on both Mac and Windows. Neither company are making extra money from me by having an app store.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 10:49 · Score: 0

Windows 10 really is a privacy nightmare. I've ran Wireshark against "hardened" Windows 10 machines and they do what they say they will not -- namely always phoning home with telemetry you would rather have private. Canonical did the same with its Linux distro, Ubuntu. It was then I decided to move over to Free- and OpenBSD. No more shenanigans. Operating systems that respect me, the user.
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-24 10:58 · Score: 1

You can get 4GB DDR2 sticks of memory from ebay for real cheap (a pair of them). They only run on AMD deskops.
Do I get more DDR2 memory for a nine-year-old AMD 690 motherboard that limits my quad-core processor to 800MHz and maxes out at 16GB RAM. Or do I buy a brand new AMD 970 motherboard that runs my quad-core processor at 1600Mhz, maxes out to 64GB, and upgrade to an eight-core processor at later date. Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Geoffrey.landis · 2016-02-24 10:59 · Score: 1

Non-technical users should use a Mac, as it simply works.
Since I use a mac, I really really wish that were true... but it's not.

Well, the problem is that the cost to buy (including maintenance) a Mac is a lot more expensive than to buy a PC... $500 may be little to you, but it could be a much higher value to many others...
Yes... but no. The purchase cost of a computer really is the least important cost. If it is frustrating to use and wastes your time, saving a few hundred dollars on purchase was a poor bargain.
Depends on what you want to do, of course. Either option has advantages for some things. Windows machines do have some bargain basement units... but you may have to make up that cost in problems. Or you may not. Depends on what you need it for.

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Re:"for non-technical users" by Cruciform · 2016-02-24 12:15 · Score: 1

You also read Slashdot, and probably get a lot of apps from GitHub, like I do.
But there are tons of people who like the convenience of app stores.
Re:"for non-technical users" by sjames · 2016-02-24 12:17 · Score: 1

That's a problem well beyond being current. His problem is his unwillingness to get current when it wouldn't take a whole hour on the net to learn what he needs to know. It seems he may even have somehow taken it personally that some new tech came along and made him not current.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Cruciform · 2016-02-24 12:19 · Score: 1

Yup, and even if you go through and set up the settings that *can* be turned off, the next patch turns them right back on again by default.
It has also changed my default apps like Notepad++ back to the MS equivalents after a patch too.
I do like some of the features of it, like on my tablet I can switch between a tablet UI and a full windows desktop for mouse and keyboard usage cleanly (much better than the nasty windows 8), but damn if the intrusiveness isn't a major downside.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 13:59 · Score: 0

That's not a tech manager, that's a child with a necktie.
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-24 17:40 · Score: 1

[...] probably get a lot of apps from GitHub [...]
Nope.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Ash-Fox · 2016-02-24 21:38 · Score: 0

Windows 10 really is a privacy nightmare. I've ran Wireshark against "hardened" Windows 10 machines and they do what they say they will not
I've ran Wireshark on "hardened" Windows 10 machines and they don't do anything like phoning home. Can you explain why this didn't happen for me?

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Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 00:38 · Score: 0

Well, you say that, but given that Linux runs on a wider range of hardware for a wider range of purposes than any other OS, being able to fiddle with it and possibly turn it into something unrecognizable is actually pretty high up on its developers priority lists.
Non-technical users should use whatever someone else is willing to support. Linux is for those of us who need a shell script to get out of bed in the morning.
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-25 03:18 · Score: 2

His problem is his unwillingness to get current when it wouldn't take a whole hour on the net to learn what he needs to know.
His problem is typical of full-time employees with many years at a company. They stop learning, become comfortable and panic at the slightest hint of change. I had two friends with software engineering degrees who fell into this trap, getting great jobs out of college and getting laid off six years later in the dot com bust, unable to find a job with obsolete skills, and still working as drug store clerks years later.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 04:07 · Score: 0

Most people have a shit understanding of Windows internals, and his hardening was entirely inadequate.
Re:"for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 05:22 · Score: 0

His problem is his unwillingness to get current when it wouldn't take a whole hour on the net to learn what he needs to know.
His problem is typical of full-time employees with many years at a company. They stop learning, become comfortable and panic at the slightest hint of change. I had two friends with software engineering degrees who fell into this trap, getting great jobs out of college and getting laid off six years later in the dot com bust, unable to find a job with obsolete skills, and still working as drug store clerks years later.
First, I'm sorry your friends had such an unfortunate experience.
I'm not so sure that it is typical though - indeed if you panic at change then IT is the wrong business for you. I'm officially on old fart at this point & for personal reasons tend NOT to flit from job to job every few years. Sales people have their "ABC" mantra, well I have "ABL" (Always Be Learning) ... and FWIW not out of fear of being obsolete but because I enjoy it.
That said I'd agree with your larger point ... if you work in technology you need to ensure that you are always learning, even if you have to do it on your own time.
Re:"for non-technical users" by david_thornley · 2016-02-25 06:44 · Score: 1

What I'd like is to have OSX on my parts-built PC without doing a Hackintosh. Apple should know by now that opening up the OS to other hardware would mean making even more off the App Store.

The App Store is a relatively small part of Apple's profits. Despite their focus as a company, they make most of their money selling hardware.

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"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Re:"for non-technical users" by sjames · 2016-02-25 06:51 · Score: 1

That's two problems in one. Nobody is current. I don't care how much time you dedicate to learning the new thing, there's another new thing out there you haven't learned yet. The difference is a willingness to learn when needed.
Some people in the field lack that willingness. Then, too, far too many HR departments think the flavor of the day is a checklist for employability. The guy who has all of today's checklist but isn't willing to learn is a much worse choice than the guy who's resume reads like yesterday's news but he has a willingness and ability to get up to speed with whatever a new employer might happen to actually be using. Especially if he is willing to consider a new thing for a new project.
Re: "for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 06:59 · Score: 0

Can you even fit a new Windows install onto a CD?
Re: "for non-technical users" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 07:02 · Score: 0

You are joking right?
Re:"for non-technical users" by camg188 · 2016-02-25 07:20 · Score: 1

You forgot about the "power users unhappy with modern desktop environments"
I guess I shouldn't be using LMDE or OpenBox.
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-25 13:49 · Score: 1

Then, too, far too many HR departments think the flavor of the day is a checklist for employability.
The only time I run into the HR checklist is for a job is the Red Hat GUI thing. I've got plenty of command line experience in Linux, but I generally use a minimalist window manager for terminal and web browser windows. I'm willing to learn the Red Hat GUI thing. Since none of my Linux experience matches the Red Hat GUI thing on the checklist, the recruiter hangs up on me.
Re:"for non-technical users" by sjames · 2016-02-25 16:05 · Score: 1

It is fairly common. You're fortunate to have only seen it once.
Re:"for non-technical users" by dskzero · 2016-02-25 21:20 · Score: 1

You're one user out of millions though. They wouldn't have rolled it out for free if they didn't know it would be profitable and you know it.

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Re:"for non-technical users" by parkinglot777 · 2016-02-26 03:15 · Score: 1

Not sure where I said PCs are made like crap compared to Macs??? I simply said Macs products are very expensive compared to PCs, and that is the issue for many people. The GP suggested to switch from PC to Mac, but I don't believe it is a good solution.
Re:"for non-technical users" by parkinglot777 · 2016-02-26 03:39 · Score: 1

If you are seeing and understanding the issue from the point I stated, you will understand why QUALITY is IRRELEVANT and is NOT a concerned when one is buying a product. Also per your statement, it means that buyers should put their trust on the brand when they spend more than they can afford on the brand's products. Should it really be the way to go in current American consumer culture?
Seriously, why do (American) people think that those who can't afford should still spend more than they can afford anyway because they believe (or hope) that the money will be well worthwhile in a long run. Think about it... For example, a person can afford only $200 right now. A PC (3-5 years lifetime product) costs $200 and a Mac (10-12 years lifetime product) costs $500. What make you think that the person would buy a Mac? In theory, yes Mac would be worth more for money (per your statement), but that has NOTHING to do with AFFORDABILITY.
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-26 10:14 · Score: 1

It is fairly common. You're fortunate to have only seen it once.
I've been through the Red Hat GUI Thing about a half-dozen times. I can't tell you how many times I went through a checklist with a thick-accented Indian recruiter, which I always answer "yes" until he asks me again for that one question near the end that requires a "no" answer. I've actually gotten a few interviews that way.
Re:"for non-technical users" by sjames · 2016-02-26 11:32 · Score: 1

I misinterpreted, my bad.
Yes, it's all too common. In some industries it's much worse.
The really sad part with the GUI thing is that often when there's a network issue, the best you can get is a serial console, so the command line is actually much more important. If you can see the GUI, the command line is still just a click away.
Another common case is where they want X years of Java. They don't care if you have X years of C, X years of Python, and X-1 years of Java, it didn't meet the criterion. It's also funny when they demand C++ and it turns out all of their code is in C.
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-26 13:01 · Score: 1

It's also funny when they demand C++ and it turns out all of their code is in C.
They probably meant C/C++. ;)
Re:"for non-technical users" by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-26 13:49 · Score: 1

If you are seeing and understanding the issue from the point I stated, you will understand why QUALITY is IRRELEVANT and is NOT a concerned when one is buying a product.
When I worked for Dell on PC refresh projects, the number one request from the programmers was that they wanted a Mac instead of a Dell. Needless to say, that drove the Dell project manager up the wall. The Fortune 500 company spent a million bucks on Dells, but the programmers wanted Macs. Go figure.

For example, a person can afford only $200 right now. A PC (3-5 years lifetime product) costs $200 and a Mac (10-12 years lifetime product) costs $500.
If a person has $200, they're not going to buy a brand new Mac because doesn't Apple doesn't compete at that price point. If you do an apple to apple comparison (pun intended), most Macs are price competitive with similar hardware from other vendors. If someone wants to buy a used Mac, OWC has them for $350+.
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Apple_Systems/Used/Macs_and_Tablets?_ga=1.141130353.2131978726.1453008213

In theory, yes Mac would be worth more for money (per your statement), but that has NOTHING to do with AFFORDABILITY.
I had $1,300 to buy a 2006 MacBook because I COULD AFFORD IT. Yes, I did paid the $200 premium for a black MacBook because it was cooler than white. When I took it into the Apple Store for repair in 2012, every employee stopped by to look at it because very few of them have ever seen a legendary black MacBook. Some even wept because they never got one at the time. Ten years later, thanks to this thread, I'm dusting it off, ordering a new battery and a tool kit to fix the fan, and installing Mac OS X Snow Leopard (the finest version of the OS ever). I just might get another ten years out of it.

That's it... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:21 · Score: 0

I'm moving to Arch

Re:That's it... by Lisandro · 2016-02-24 08:27 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'm moving to Arch
Good for you. Arch is not for newbie users as it lacks a tool to perform automated installs, but once it is up and running i'd venture to say is the most reliable, easiest to use distro out there.
Re:That's it... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:35 · Score: 0

Let me know if you ever manage to get it to boot.
Re:That's it... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

Top 5 reasons why Arch Linux sucks:
1) Lead arch developer got his computer hacked 3 times. see: https://web.archive.org/web/20120805043450/https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=12192&p=1
2) Unstable. Go check out arch's forum instead of listening to the fanboy to see the enormous amounts of issues.
3) Unprofessional. Arch isn't used in any professional environment for a good reason. Made by amateurs.
4) Community. Pretentious, trendy, ricer, hippie morons.
5) Forum. Full of noob questions (can't help it as majority is ex-ubuntu users)
Re:That's it... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:01 · Score: 0

Hah. Have you checked Ubuntu's support forums lately? Arch has as many reported issues as any other mainstream distro.
Re:That's it... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 10:42 · Score: 1

5) Forum. Full of noob questions

And you call them pretentious?
Re:That's it... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 11:20 · Score: 0

Ubuntu has a much larger market share.
Re:That's it... by subk · 2016-02-24 12:31 · Score: 1

Top 5 reasons why Arch Linux sucks:
1) Lead arch developer got his computer hacked 3 times. see: https://web.archive.org/web/20... 2) Unstable. Go check out arch's forum instead of listening to the fanboy to see the enormous amounts of issues. 3) Unprofessional. Arch isn't used in any professional environment for a good reason. Made by amateurs. 4) Community. Pretentious, trendy, ricer, hippie morons. 5) Forum. Full of noob questions (can't help it as majority is ex-ubuntu users)

Top 5 reasons why Arch Linux sucks
1) That was 2005. Cut the guy some slack, Arch wasn't even really a "thing" yet. Show us a recent breach?
2) Unstable? Citation please? Other than "go read the forum"...
3) Unprofessional? See above. It seems you missed the whole point of a rolling-release distro geared for developers. Nobody in their right mind would replace RHEL with Arch and it was never meant to! That is not to say professionals do not use arch. You tried to hard to make this a black-and-white debate.
4) Now you've totally lost it. Calling Arch users "trendy" is just stupid. We are like 1% of the Linux user base and most of us are into esoteric stuff.
5) Show me a distro who's forum not full of noob questions. That's pretty much what they exist for.

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Re:That's it... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 13:10 · Score: 0

...and the two are related how?
Re: That's it... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 14:48 · Score: 0

Different market share but the same number of complaints means one of them sucks less. Figure which.
Re: That's it... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 16:01 · Score: 0

So, i guess you flunked Statistics 101.
Re:That's it... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 22:47 · Score: 0

It has several tools to perform automated installs, the one i use most myself is called "bash" you might have heard of it
Re:That's it... by Kremmy · 2016-02-25 16:47 · Score: 1

Yes, Arch Linux is unstable. I used Arch Linux for a while and I absolutely loved what they were doing with it, right up until a series of updates that occurred which broke the system to such a degree that I ran for the hills. These updates were known to cause serious issues, and if you were following their newsreel and reading everything they posted you could have avoid having your system hosed, but otherwise you fired off the bog-standard update command your system was FUCKED.

And they deprecated their installer around the same time, claiming it wasn't maintainable and not worth the time.

What a bunch of buffoons.
Re:That's it... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-27 20:28 · Score: 0

Pussie.
Re:That's it... by Kremmy · 2016-02-28 06:47 · Score: 1

Nah, it's not that I'm a pussy, it's that an operating system which breaks horribly to such a degree has no value to someone using their computer for work.

WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:23 · Score: -1

Because the value added by Linux Mint is in Cinnamon, why do the developers need to distribute a broken version of Ubuntu when the Cinnamon DE could be distributed as an Ubuntu spin?

What the hell does this sentence mean?

Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · 2016-02-24 08:25 · Score: 2

I think it means three things: "Why do people use Mint when Ubuntu is better in every way? Some people think the only answer is 'Cinnamon' . Ubuntu should port that over so they are the awesome and Mint can die"

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Pseudonymous+Powers · 2016-02-24 08:32 · Score: 4, Informative

I think it means three things: "Why do people use Mint when Ubuntu is better in every way? Some people think the only answer is 'Cinnamon' . Ubuntu should port that over so they are the awesome and Mint can die"
I agree with your interpretation. I even (unlike you, probably) kind of agree with the original author's point. I would be pretty happy if the Ubuntu team offered Cinnamon as an alternative of Unity. But of course they never will, because they specifically developed Unity to replace Gnome in the first place, thus creating all this demand for Cinnamon and Linux Mint.
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by MightyMartian · 2016-02-24 08:32 · Score: 1

This message brought to you by Mark Shuttleworth

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by FatdogHaiku · 2016-02-24 08:35 · Score: 4, Funny

I think it means three things: "Why do people use Mint when Ubuntu is better in every way? Some people think the only answer is 'Cinnamon' . Ubuntu should port that over so they are the awesome and Mint can die"
I agree with your interpretation. I even (unlike you, probably) kind of agree with the original author's point. I would be pretty happy if the Ubuntu team offered Cinnamon as an alternative of Unity. But of course they never will, because they specifically developed Unity to replace Gnome in the first place, thus creating all this demand for Cinnamon and Linux Mint.
and now we're telling the folks at Mint to go fork themselves?
{ducks}

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by RDW · 2016-02-24 08:53 · Score: 2

It's what passes for trash talk from anonymous story contributors, a loaded question like 'when will the developers stop beating their wives?' Mint is not just Cinnamon, of course, and not all versions are even based on Ubuntu, 'broken' or otherwise. Mint fans might want to point out that Ubuntu-Mate, by far the best version of Ubuntu (see what I did there?), owes a great deal to Mint's support of the MATE desktop project...
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by squiggleslash · 2016-02-24 09:13 · Score: 2, Informative

Mint is Ubuntu with an additional repository that contains Cinnamon, and a different set of default packages. When I say Mint is Ubuntu with ..., I mean that literally, as in (for Rosa):

/etc/apt $ cat sources.list.d/official-package-repositories.list deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ rosa main upstream import deb http://extra.linuxmint.com/ rosa main deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu trusty main restricted universe multiverse deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu trusty-updates main restricted universe multiverse deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty-security main restricted universe multiverse deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ trusty partner

"Ubuntu Spin" is the term given to a variant of Ubuntu that's the result of a collaboration between Canonical and an interested community. For example, KUbuntu is a spin with KDE replacing Unity as the desktop.
So...
What the author is saying is given Mint is just Cinnamon + Ubuntu, why distribute this somewhat hacked together kludge, rather than collaborating with Canonical? If the two works together, then the "Mint" side would be able to build on Ubuntu in cooperation with Canonical, leaving "CUbuntu" to have the same advantages as other spins (for example, up to date releases, testing so that changes in one part of Ubuntu do not damage CUbuntu, etc) while still getting a Cinnamon desktop.
That's one solution, another is to get more people and disentangle the project from Ubuntu completely. It depends upon what the Mint team actually want.

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by oh_my_080980980 · 2016-02-24 09:18 · Score: 4, Informative

And the author is an ass. Mint includes, among other things, full multimedia support. Ubuntu does not have that. That's why it is very popular. Ubuntu made a choice not to include full multimedia support.
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by squiggleslash · 2016-02-24 09:22 · Score: 2

I keep reading this claim, I'm not sure what's being referred to. Ubuntu most certainly does play movies and music out of the box. It seems to have at the very least the same multimedia support that, say, Windows does.
(I just checked, Rhythmbox and "Videos" installed by default on the Ubuntu system I'm using now.)

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by squiggleslash · 2016-02-24 09:39 · Score: 3, Interesting

They wouldn't replace Unity with Cinnamon in the primary version of Ubuntu, but given they have no problems distributing versions of Ubuntu with KDE, GNOME 3, XFCE, LXDE, and even MATE (the other thing that came out of the Unity sucks movement), I don't see why they wouldn't do a Cinnamon version if there was a community willing to maintain it.

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:39 · Score: 4, Informative

Probably codecs that Mint has but Ubuntu doesn't include by default for legal reasons
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by tnk1 · 2016-02-24 09:41 · Score: 1

I don't see why it couldn't be moved to Ubuntu.
The only reason reason why not would be if it takes away developer or test time and resources from their other, higher priority offerings. It would be an alternative, and Ubuntu does already offer alternatives. Unity or not, as long as the only work they had to do was minimal, offering the choice seems to not harm Ubuntu at all.
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Merk42 · 2016-02-24 09:46 · Score: 1

I think it means three things: "Why do people use Mint when Ubuntu is better in every way? Some people think the only answer is 'Cinnamon' . Ubuntu should port that over so they are the awesome and Mint can die"
I agree with your interpretation. I even (unlike you, probably) kind of agree with the original author's point. I would be pretty happy if the Ubuntu team offered Cinnamon as an alternative of Unity. But of course they never will, because they specifically developed Unity to replace Gnome in the first place, thus creating all this demand for Cinnamon and Linux Mint.
There are a variety of different Ubuntu 'flavors', which is basically Ubuntu+Alternate DE. So why couldn't Linux Mint be like that rather than a much larger project that's harder to maintain?
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by b0bby · 2016-02-24 10:02 · Score: 3, Informative

Encrypted DVDs don't play out of the box on Ubuntu, you have to manually install libdvd-pkg. Which admittedly isn't hard, but it is an extra step. And there may well be other codecs they don't support I'm not aware of.
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by ArchieBunker · 2016-02-24 10:06 · Score: 1

I like the subjects in comments, douche nozzle.

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by KGIII · 2016-02-24 10:28 · Score: 1

sudo apt-get install cinnamon

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Harlequin80 · 2016-02-24 10:36 · Score: 1

Well they also have a debian edition and there was some discussion a while ago, no idea if it is still happening, of shifting their base from Ubuntu to debian.
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by KGIII · 2016-02-24 10:44 · Score: 1

For the majority, just 'ubuntu-restricted-extras' will get you started but yeah, you'll need to do extra work for some DVDs and BluRay discs. All of them can be found by the name of the thing you want to play (blueray) and your OS (Lubuntu) and what the hell you want to do (play). 'play bluray lubuntu' seems to work just fine.
For the packages specific to your flavor, change Ubuntu to Lubuntu or Kubuntu or whatever official flavor you use. (Dunno about others.)
Hmm... For DVD it is:
sudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread4/install-css.sh
At least that's what's in bash_history from a few days ago.

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by squiggleslash · 2016-02-24 11:21 · Score: 1

I've not tried it, but I can't imagine it would avoid the same problems. The issue isn't Ubuntu, it's that a third party controls, directly, 90% of the software that makes up a Mint distribution.

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 11:29 · Score: 0

Legal reasons that ONLY APPLY TO THE US!
The video encoding patents aren't recognised in Europe or much of the rest of the world, because it's just maths.
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 11:58 · Score: 0

"CUbuntu"
Clearly, it would be called "Cinnabuntu"...
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 13:02 · Score: 0

Stick a fork in them, they are done
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by ChunderDownunder · 2016-02-24 13:07 · Score: 1

I'm running mate on debian.
So the point is why a desktop environment needs its own distro, rather than polishing debian/ubuntu upstream.
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Harlequin80 · 2016-02-24 13:13 · Score: 2

But isn't Ubuntu just a derivative of Debian? They probably use 80%+ pure Debian in their releases so you could argue why don't they just partner with Debian instead of rolling their own.
I also could be biased though as Mint is my distro of choice. I prefer its interface and how it works to every other distro I have used. As for the comments in the article it feels to me more that he has an axe to grind because he doesn't agree with how mint is structured. He talks about why not partner with cannonical and become a Cbuntu. But if they did that they stop be able to brand differentiate and will essentially disappear in short order. Longer term I expect that mint will start to role its own packages as it gets more and more popular.
The other thing is that mint and ubuntu have different goals and design principals. The user interface of mint is extremely stable. I run one machine with mint 13 on it and one with the latest shiny on it. You can move from one to another with almost no change to work flow.
Finally I question his other assertion that because of blacklisting packages or not upgrading kernels in place the machine is inherently more prone to security issues. The whole concept of the LTS releases of ubuntu is that they receive long term updates for security. I doubt very much that there will be a blacklisted package upgrade in mint which has security implications. That is the sort of package upgrade that they would make work. There is no question that you may not be running the latest version of every piece of software but that isn't unique to mint. If you run an LTS version of Ubuntu you won't be running the latest versions of the same software.
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by donaldm · 2016-02-24 13:34 · Score: 1

I think it means three things: "Why do people use Mint when Ubuntu is better in every way? Some people think the only answer is 'Cinnamon' . Ubuntu should port that over so they are the awesome and Mint can die"
I use Fedora which IMHO is better. Now let the battle lines be drawn and I will get the popcorn \{^,^)/

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 14:15 · Score: 0

It's even simpler than that, actually. All that need to do is include a Cinnamon package (and potentially whatever auxiliary packages they need). I know personally, I use Xubuntu. But I don't use XFCE. Instead, i use Icewm. In the end, Cinnamon is a DE and one can have many DEs installed.
PS - Even if Ubuntu refuses to support Cinnamon official, you can make a PPA and people can go that route. Honestly, the biggest reason Linux Mint sounded at all appealing to me is the whole "rolling versions". If there was more effort on Linuxt Mint's part to integrate that into Ubuntu, we'd all be better off. Otherwise, we're stuck on upgrading from LTS to LTS.
PPS - You might think it odd that I'd be for rolling updates and be suggesting LTS to LTS, but the whole point is that every upgrade is a whole process where things can break very badly and there's a radical shift in a lot of underlying libraries. A good LTS rolling update would be basically a lot like Debian stable, except with smaller shifts instead of bigger upgrade events. In the end, I'm most concerned about breakage events that basically are undiagnose-able and irreversible. It's the one thing Windows does really good, to be honest.
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by tonique · 2016-02-24 17:08 · Score: 1

Cinnamon (2.6.13) is available in Ubuntu universe repositories. For me, apt-get wants to install 88 additional packages when installing that meta package.
http://packages.ubuntu.com/wil...
I haven't tried to use it so I have no idea if works well.
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Harlequin80 · 2016-02-24 18:28 · Score: 1

Better than what came to my mind first.... C....untu....
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by LordLucless · 2016-02-24 19:47 · Score: 1

What the author is saying is given Mint is just Cinnamon + Ubuntu, why distribute this somewhat hacked together kludge, rather than collaborating with Canonical?
I don't get how that's a hacked together kludge. Ubuntu + repo + default packages seems like it's using the package system exactly the way it's supposed to be. I mean, every person I know running linux adds extra repos, and switches out the default packages at some point. This doesn't sound like a kludge so much as a slightly differently configured base install. Whether that's a significant enough difference to merit a new distro name might be a reasonable question, but it doesn't sound very kludgey.

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 21:12 · Score: 0

And the author is an ass. Mint includes, among other things, full multimedia support. Ubuntu does not have that. That's why it is very popular. Ubuntu made a choice not to include full multimedia support.
While mint uses a majority of its software Ubuntu, its still independent from Canonical. These days I do not trust Canonical they could be selling our info to 3rd parties and that's another story. So no the Author is not an a$$ IMHO.
Mint has done well for itself over the years and sometimes ranks above Ubuntu on distro watch. Its a great distro and I use it myself as my main Desktop OS but use Debian for all my servers. I am a Debian supporter, however for a front end Mint is nicely presented, very clean and fresh.
Unfortunately like everything that gets popular, it is subject to some sort of criticism and attack as we have seen this past Sunday.
This will put a damper on it popularity but I will not stop using Mint.
To team doing Mint awesome job so far, dust your self off learn from this attack, and get back to what you guys do best.
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 22:38 · Score: 0

the TTIP will fix that...
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by RDW · 2016-02-25 01:57 · Score: 1

So the point is why a desktop environment needs its own distro, rather than polishing debian/ubuntu upstream.
Mint isn't a single desktop distro, quite the reverse - the Ubuntu-based edition is available in MATE, Cinnamon, Xfce and KDE versions, and the Debian-based version in Cinnamon or MATE. It exists for much the same reason as any other distribution - the developers wanted to do something different to what was already out there, and their changes weren't limited to the DE (before Gnome 3 and Unity happened, Mint ran Gnome 2 like Ubuntu, but still had its own character).
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by squiggleslash · 2016-02-25 02:18 · Score: 1

They already do ship cinnamon packages apparently. But here we're essentially talking about a "You install the operating system and it comes with everything set up more or less how Mint would do it" type experience, hence the talk of a Cinnamon Ubuntu spin.

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by squiggleslash · 2016-02-25 02:34 · Score: 1

so you could argue why don't they just partner with Debian instead of rolling their own

Sure, that would be another option. That said, Ubuntu has nailed the "Install it and it just works" aspect of distributions in a way virtually nobody else has, and they're already set up and have a proven track record in the distribution spins ("our distribution with these modifications to create a different user experience") department. So if it were up to me, and partnering was the only option on the table I'd pick Canonical over Debian.
As far as security goes, I mostly agree in that I don't think Ubuntu/Canonical and its integration would be the principle problem with security holes. But the team doesn't appear to have a security focus and probably doesn't have the expertise required to have that focus. It's too small a group, and probably needs the (appropriate) people posting enthusiastically about it to start involving themselves in its development. Otherwise it's destined to become a Ron Paul of operating systems, loved enthusiastically by those who are attached to it, but too small to actually make a difference.
I'm a Mint user myself, but after 20 years or so of using GNU/Linux, Slackware, RedHat (pre-RHEL), RHEL/CentOS, Debian, Fedora, Ubuntu, and now Mint, I've learned not to attach myself emotionally to any particular system. Originally I thought that sharing repositories with Ubuntu was a great thing given Ubuntu is a great operating system marred only by a relatively poor UI, but I'm not as inclined to agree right now.

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by squiggleslash · 2016-02-25 02:41 · Score: 1

There's a world of difference between adding a repo to add some extra applications, and distributing an operating system where the majority of core components are coming in via a repo you don't have control over. That's why I think the word kludge is appropriate here.

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 04:42 · Score: 0

Which is the equivalent of, what, a four line script? One add-apt-repository, one long apt-get install, one long apt-get remove, one line to alter some config files? I mean, having a whole other distro seems a bit much.
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by squiggleslash · 2016-02-25 05:22 · Score: 1

If the entire point is to make it easy for end users, then yeah, it's worth it for them to have a separate .ISO that has everything configured from the get go, rather than say "You want a user friendly version of Ubuntu with a traditional desktop? Sure, just download the ISO, install it, and now follow the following list of instructions. 1. Log in. 2. Go to the Ubuntu logo, click on it, and wait for the menu to appear. Now type "Terminal" in the search box and press return. Now select the Terminal icon. Now, in the terminal type 'sudo apt-get...'"...
The aim here is to make it simple for end users. A simple alternative ISO isn't going to be hard to make. It's not as if the ISO will need to be maintained after making it, beyond making new versions for each major Ubuntu release.

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Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 06:24 · Score: 0

It would actually, really be Cubuntu List of forks
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 17:05 · Score: 0

Except that's not what Linux Mint is. And if it was, we wouldn't be having 99% of this issue.
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments by camg188 · 2016-02-26 01:52 · Score: 1

I thought the original intent of Linux Mint was to include non open source software like flash and codecs so the user didn't have to mess with finding/adding repositories and things like that.

Value Added by JackieBrown · 2016-02-24 08:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

and the graphical utilities don't update the kernel. Because the value added by Linux Mint is in Cinnamon, why do the developers need to distribute a broken version of Ubuntu when the Cinnamon DE could be distributed as an Ubuntu spin?

My guess would be that most - or allot - of Mint users are looking for more than just Ubuntu with Cinnamon. If that is all Mint users where looking for, there would not be a KDE version, a XFCE version, or a Mate version. If that is all they wanted, they would download Ubuntu and add the ppas for their desktop of choice. People find value with those "graphical utilities".

The author is confusing what he wants from Mint for what others want.

Re:Value Added by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:44 · Score: 0

... and for what the Mint contributors wish to work on.
Re:Value Added by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:48 · Score: 0

Definitely. It should be noted that Mint releases don't track Ubuntu releases anymore. If I recall, the last few Mint releases have been built on the same LTS distribution, for stability.
Re:Value Added by squiggleslash · 2016-02-24 09:00 · Score: 2, Interesting

I would say he's accurately describing what Mint is, not what user's want or don't want. He's saying "This is what it is, so why not do it properly?"
I don't doubt that many Mint users want something different, but right now Mint is Ubuntu + An Extra Repo with Other Packages + An default package list that's slightly different. It's so much of a hack that a recent Ubuntu update caused /etc/issue and /etc/issue.net in Mint systems to report the machine as running Ubuntu, not Mint (in fairness we were all prompted to ask us if we wanted that changed. Somewhat amusing but...)
Mint kinda needs to decide what direction it is. Becoming something other than a flavor of Ubuntu means disconnecting one's self from Ubuntu, having a large pool of maintainers, etc. That's probably not something they have the resources to do.
So... the other option is to just be explicitly a part of Ubuntu, be CUbuntu or whatever. That would provide end users with exactly what we want - a well maintained, well supported, operating system whose desktop is actually modern and usable rather than trendy and terrible. It'd also discourage unnecessary silliness like mdmwebkit which seems to exist solely out of a wish to show independence, rather than for any functional reason.
But the "Rely on Ubuntu while replacing problematic packages" model? Nah. It's ugly. It's pretty much a recipe for things being missed, leading to instability and security problems in the long run as Ubuntu and Mint diverge further and further, while the latter continues to rely on the independent and unpredictable choices of the former. /etc/issue showing Ubuntu is amusing. The next change may well not be.

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Re:Value Added by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:01 · Score: 0

I picked mint for long term stability and their conservative approach to updates. I've had repeated bad experiences with updates and have not been hit with attacks coming through unpatched vulnerabilities. For me updates cost more than they are worth. If it was pretty too that would be a bonus but not critical.
Re:Value Added by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:05 · Score: 1

My guess would be that most - or allot - of Mint users
http://e.lvme.me/tot3p4x.jpg
Perhaps you meant "a lot"? Would you say "alittle"?
Re:Value Added by oh_my_080980980 · 2016-02-24 09:21 · Score: 2

Good fucking god. They are not disconnecting themselves. Mint is based on stable version of Ubuntu. How hard is it to understand that. So Mint will not be on the bleeding edge. BFD. They will release new versions as the move forward to the next stable release of Ubuntu.
Re:Value Added by squiggleslash · 2016-02-24 09:30 · Score: 2

Good fucking god. They are not disconnecting themselves.

Who said they are? We wouldn't be having this discussion if they were.

Mint is based on stable version of Ubuntu. How hard is it to understand that. So Mint will not be on the bleeding edge

By "based" in this case you mean "It directly uses the stable version of Ubuntu as a base". And by "stable" version I assume you mean "LTS" which doesn't mean "stable", at least, not in a meaningful way that applies here.
Essentially the current configuration places Mint users at the mercy of Canonical. If they change something that breaks the packages Mint is supplying, then we're in trouble. And Canonical can and most importantly does change things. That /etc/issue thing happened. It was minor, it was amusing but nothing more, but it demonstrates the principle that Mint is playing with fire by using Ubuntu as a base rather than maintaining their own fork.
This is not a sane strategy. And to be honest, until today I was a (mostly) happy Mint user, and hadn't really thought about the consequences of the /etc/issue nonsense earlier this week. But now I've been forced to think about it, and now I'm reading MintBros determined to pretend the status quo is fine, I'm... kinda wondering if I should step away from this distribution.

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Re:Value Added by ausekilis · 2016-02-24 10:07 · Score: 1

I was going to say something similar. In the wake of the grand migration to SystemD... Mint was one of the few hold-outs in incorporating it into their distro. They kept using the most recent Ubuntu LTS until systemd was "proven" to work in the wild. Mint is more than just "Ubuntu - Cinnamon spin", the mint folks listen to their audience and try to make it a better Ubuntu. I haven't looked, but i find it hard to believe that people are singing Unity's praises all over the forums.
Re:Value Added by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 10:48 · Score: 0

You mean "a lot." "alot" is not a word and "allot" is definitely not what you mean. (No offense intended. Just a helping hand.)
Re:Value Added by AmiMoJo · 2016-02-24 11:13 · Score: 1

So what distribution would you recommend for someone looking for something like Mint? Less Ubuntu than Ubuntu, but solid and well supported.

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Re:Value Added by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 11:57 · Score: 2, Interesting

The Linux Mint team should just cut their losses and focus all their resources on their secondary project, Linux Mint Debian Edition. Making this the primary project and the new default "Linux Mint" would help because they'd be less dependent on upstream changes from Ubuntu, while providing usability improvements to Debian that are not considered important enough to implement in Debian proper. Heck, it's exactly the method of how Ubuntu came about, but Linux Mint's mission goal is just to make the best desktop it can, and not to go on some kind of hopeless tangent with mobiles and the cloud that Canonical is trying to do.
Re:Value Added by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 12:05 · Score: 0

Mint.
Their website got hacked. The rest of the article is meaningless opinion.
Re:Value Added by AthanasiusKircher · 2016-02-24 12:21 · Score: 1

That would provide end users with exactly what we want - a well maintained, well supported, operating system whose desktop is actually modern and usable rather than trendy and terrible.
This is ironic, since the whole reason I tried Mint in the first place several years ago was because I was tired of Ubuntu being "trendy and terrible," while Mint appeared to supply a "well-maintained, well-supported, operating system whose desktop is actually modern and usable."
I'm not defending Mint. But I find this very funny, given how broken Ubuntu typically was a few years back and how they seemed to jump on any unstable crappy bandwagon to do the new trendy thing. ("Yeah, look at my wobbly windows! I can't play any media without the entire sound system breaking because Ubuntu went ahead with an experimental system that doesn't work yet, but look at my wobbly windows!")
Re:Value Added by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 14:23 · Score: 0

Thanks alott for the clarification!
Re:Value Added by i.r.id10t · 2016-02-24 17:17 · Score: 1

No different than Mandrake shadowing Red Hat releases in the 90s and early 00s... RedHat 6.2 ships, a month later Mandrake 7.2 ships. Didn't even bother replacing "redhat" in the installer screens, etc.

--
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
Re:Value Added by Harlequin80 · 2016-02-24 18:30 · Score: 1

Mint Debian.
Re:Value Added by AmiMoJo · 2016-02-24 20:55 · Score: 1

Thanks, I'll take a look.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Value Added by bingoUV · 2016-02-24 23:24 · Score: 1

Why don't you use the Mint Debian edition then? It shouldn't have these issues, right? Maybe it has different issues.

--
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Re:Value Added by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 00:29 · Score: 0

and the graphical utilities don't update the kernel. Because the value added by Linux Mint is in Cinnamon, why do the developers need to distribute a broken version of Ubuntu when the Cinnamon DE could be distributed as an Ubuntu spin?
My guess would be that most - or allot - of Mint users are looking for more than just Ubuntu with Cinnamon. If that is all Mint users where looking for, there would not be a KDE version, a XFCE version, or a Mate version. If that is all they wanted, they would download Ubuntu and add the ppas for their desktop of choice. People find value with those "graphical utilities".
The author is confusing what he wants from Mint for what others want.
You're right, when gnome 3 replaced gnome 2 in debian testing, I looked for an a distribution with gnome 2, if possible debian based. But I wanted something done well, not adding a ppa and expecting the new DE to behave correctly with the rest of the OS. Mint provided Mate correctly integrated on ubuntu, so I tried it, and stayed.
And contrary to what the article says, there is a graphical utility to list all the available kernels and allows to install new ones.
I may leave now that they changed their policy and update the base way less frequently and which leaves us with older version of some core packages (we still have an old version of the libc6 which isn't compatible with the latest dolphin builds, for example).
Re:Value Added by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 00:50 · Score: 0

It does have different issues. They couldn't decide whether or not they wanted it to be a rolling release. It screwed up all sorts of packages. Their idea of basing something of Debian means Sid, not stable.
Re:Value Added by squiggleslash · 2016-02-25 02:39 · Score: 1

Because I have nothing against Ubuntu, and the issue is relying on other repos beyond the control of the distribution, not Canonical per-se.
One thing I hate about discussions of distributions sometimes is that it descends to people feeling they need to pick sides and teams and be "Team Mint" or "Team Canonical". I'm not that way, and even if I were on Team Mint, I'd at least have the courage to acknowledge that Team Canonical made my operating system possible (just as Team Canonical member should acknowledge their debt to Team Debian.)
I don't use Mint because I hate Canonical. I like Canonical. I use Mint because it's the recommended Cinnamon distribution, and I like Cinnamon.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:Value Added by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 06:05 · Score: 0

Linux Mint by default uses perfectly legible fonts to my eye, which is really important to me since I spend many hours per day looking at desktops.
I cannot stand the spindly fonts that most distros seem to enjoy, and I don't enjoy trying to find whatever lever might (or might not) exist to improve the fonts.

Spread too thin??? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:26 · Score: 0

Are you f'ing kidding me? The entire project is like 5 guys.

Jesus how idiotic can you be.

Re:Spread too thin??? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:45 · Score: 0

i'd guess by your example that they could be about as idiotic as you. "Spread too thin" = no individual has any any free time...
you're an idiot.
Re:Spread too thin??? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:13 · Score: 0

Really? Only 5 guys?
I would be glad to send them a months worth of cheetos and drpepper to say thanks for the good work.
(I already donate money each year, but I thought it would be spread too thin to actually make any difference)

The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:26 · Score: 5, Insightful

Actually, Linux Mint's value add was originally (and still is) providing an Ubuntu distribution that includes non-free software and codecs pre-installed and configured right out of the box (e.g. DVD playback, MP3 playback, 3D graphics drivers like then visual binary blob, Flash, JAVA, etc.). Yes, these features can be separately stalled by users in Ubuntu. But for first time or novice users, this could be difficult and Linux Mint took the approach of making sure these features were installed, configured, and working out of the box.

Cinnamon is a separate project to provide an alternative to Gnome3. Linux Mint sponsored it and is the primary user of it. But it's not the only "value add".

That said, Linux Mint did make some weird design decisions. I always thought it would be easier to just create and publish a custom Ubuntu spin that included these features rather than create a whole distribution from scratch.

Re:The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:56 · Score: 0

The value added is definitely not only in Cinnamon. Much people use Mint XFCE, MATE or KDE. What do they see as added value? It is simply a smoother and nicer operating system.
Maybe that's because they listen to their users and don't take them for guinea pigs.
Few days ago I tried the new Lubuntu. I could not believe it, crash here, not compatible libs there, another little crash... Painfull reminder why I chose Mint after using Ubuntu for two years.
Re:The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:31 · Score: 0

Lubuntu is not Ubuntu. Canonical doesn't care about it's other community flavours and it shows.
Re:The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon by zwarte+piet · 2016-02-24 10:08 · Score: 1

My only grudge with Mint is the snot green touches, but selecting a different theme and background wasn't much trouble.
Re:The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 10:28 · Score: 1

So, you preferred the Ubuntu poo brown? :)
Re:The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 10:48 · Score: 0

Actually, Linux Mint's value add was originally (and still is) providing an Ubuntu distribution that includes non-free software and codecs pre-installed and configured right out of the box (e.g. DVD playback, MP3 playback, 3D graphics drivers like then visual binary blob, Flash, JAVA, etc.). Yes, these features can be separately stalled by users in Ubuntu. But for first time or novice users, this could be difficult and Linux Mint took the approach of making sure these features were installed, configured, and working out of the box.
But why base it on a buggy tempramental distro like Ubuntu rather than Debian. Even LMDE is far buggier (and downright usable) in comparison to Debian testing.
Im waiting for something with those aims based on Debian stable. Until then I will stick with Debian stable because its rock solid.
Re:The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon by KGIII · 2016-02-24 10:59 · Score: 1

Lubuntu is an official flavor and it is awesome. I don't get crashes, I don't have problems. Well, I get an occasional lxpanel crash that fixes itself in short order and asks me if I want to report it. I usually report it just so they have the dump. I'm not sure that really counts as much of a crash considering that it's nearly immediate, no work is ever lost, and it repairs itself.

--
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Re: The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 12:05 · Score: 0

Lubuntu is faster than greased weasel shit sliding off a hot tin roof.
Re: The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon by KGIII · 2016-02-24 13:04 · Score: 1

It is. You should (if you haven't) see it on very modern hardware. I have it on a "mobile workstation" right here and, oh my... I've even installed it on some *very* older hardware (stuff from 2005) and it runs just fine. I think the slowest I've installed on was a 2.0 GHz w/3 GB of RAM and a spinning platter HDD. I spent about a day using it on that system and it was/is just fine.
I like LXDE and I've not yet tried the LXQt that is coming in 16.04... It should be interesting. I'm hoping that it is as quick and stable.

--
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Re: The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon by Blaskowicz · 2016-02-24 19:54 · Score: 1

I installed Lubuntu 10.10 on a Pentium 3 with 256MB and it was fine, even surprisingly good at showing non-fullscreen web video. It was an interesting franken computer, with the 16:9 LCD monitor and a Firewire card.
LXDE runs on Rapsberry Pi 1, which is a worse computer than that (but with HDMI and hardware H264 decoder)
It makes sense actually, why would software need to spend a billion cycles to open a start menu or a run box etc.
Re:The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon by Blaskowicz · 2016-02-24 20:02 · Score: 1

LMDE 2 is on current debian stable already.
I tried it and well, nothing special.
I still have the same opinion : debian is about the same as Ubuntu, except when you find out it's missing a piece of software or a driver or whatever. By all means get debian stable if you want debian stable. Just that it being more "solid" or whatever on a desktop is a myth.
Re:The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 01:12 · Score: 0

LMDE is based on Sid, not stable. Which is why it advertises newer packages on the download page.
Using older packages means having fewer issues. There is no substitute for a long real-world testing cycle: why do you think Fedora exists?
Re:The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon by Blaskowicz · 2016-02-25 05:01 · Score: 1

Nope I'm pretty sure LMDE is on debian jessie. Although the Mint or Mint-related software is a rolling release of sorts on top of that (Cinnamon, Mate, mdm etc.)
Currently debian stable is newer than Ubuntu 14.04 LTS!
Re: The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon by KGIII · 2016-02-25 10:53 · Score: 1

That is impressive, though it's 10.10. I'm not sure how well 15.10 would do. Unfortunately, they seem hell bent on eating as many resources as you throw at it. I can see that as a problem for those who only have access to slower hardware. I've got fine hardware but it's unfortunate if it ends up being too bulky for older PCs.
I think Ubuntu might want to consider a super-light, but fully configured and functional, version. Take Lubuntu, strip it down a bit more, optimize it a bit more, trim out the things that don't actually get used on older hardware. Find a VERY light (but functional) graphic browser (I'm still looking for one) and run with it. Find a good, but light, email and whatnot.
I am curious as to what LXQt is going to look like in terms of resource usage. I'm sort of excited but, at the same time, visuals is not an element that I'm horribly concerned with. I *like* LXDE and I think I've made it look just fine. Here's an old image of it running on the aforementioned computer or one of similar vintage:
http://i.imgur.com/VSsDyU0.png
Hmm... Maybe I can roll my own and just make it available for people? Or at least give a list and a methodology to enable them to do so on their own. It seems like a worthy goal. DSL and Tiny Linux are both not robust enough. Something between the two might be of interest. With so many choices, the closest I've come is actually LXDE.
Someone else mentioned putting Lubuntu on a bunch of spectography machines a while back. They linked me to them but I don't appear to have saved the URL. I'm thinking something a bit lighter might actually be a decent idea for some people but I'm not sure that I'm the appropriate choice to start and maintain such a project. I'd probably build up from core and run with it from there. I'm not entirely sure how to wrap it back up but I can figure that out via Google.
Hmm... I need to get motivated. Hell, if you've got any ideas for software, let me know. ;-) Email is always an option.

--
"So long and thanks for all the fish."

But Ubuntu is broken to start with. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:30 · Score: -1

"Seldom have I seen such a hive of scum and villainy." Jokes aside, whats with shoving tons of unstable code into your distro "just to be like Windows". I would not touch this piece of unsecured crap with a 10' pole!

Mint is popular for a reason by bangular · 2016-02-24 08:32 · Score: 3, Insightful

I tried mint a few years ago when I found the default install of Ubuntu desktop unusable. Could I have customized it to the desktop I wanted? Sure. Or, I could try this new distribution that has a DE that is actually intuitive. If Ubuntu shipped with Cinnamon by default I'd go back to Ubuntu. Ubuntu really shot themselves in the foot a few years ago and I got tired of being a beta tester.

Re:Mint is popular for a reason by flightmaker · 2016-02-24 09:03 · Score: 1

Agreed, the fantastic new Ubuntu was crap on my desktop computer and totally unusable on this little 10" Toshiba Atom netbook I'm using right now, with Linux Mint 17/Mate. It was worse than the win 7 that said netbook was supplied with.
Mint 17 with Mate was like a breath of fresh air after all the bloatware rubbish that was being dumped on us i.e. both my computers with GUI desktops plus the quite old laptop of a friend are all running responsively, like a computer should.
There's nothing wrong with the Ubuntu Server distribution AFAICT - I was running the last LTS version 24/7 at home for nearly five years and I'm now running the current LTS version again with no issues.
I have a Cinnamon virtual machine installed on the desktop which I update and play around with once in a while, to see if I want to swap to Cinnamon next time I upgrade. At the moment I prefer Mate but Cinnamon has definitely improved since I first tried it out...
Re:Mint is popular for a reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 10:47 · Score: 0

I'm glad I'm not the only person who had this problem.
I'm not a power user, but even if I was, my time is not free. I'm not going to spend potentially hours fine-tuning a Linux desktop in 2016 to perform tolerably on older hardware, which is what I used to turn to Ubuntu for in the first place. You can be reasonably certain that Mint is going to sprint right out of the gate. With Ubuntu, you no longer have that guarantee, which means that Ubuntu is also taking a big fat dump all over the 'Linux performs better and runs faster' narrative - a narrative largely based in fact, but tell that to people who have gotten poor first impressions of Ubuntu and thus Linux as a whole.
I understand why a lot of people in the Open Source flock are grumpy (especially maintainers) about people whining over performance quirks and features they just absolutely have to have, but this is one area that I feel needs attention. It doesn't matter if a skilled user can work around crap that comes up during installation or make the operating system work better after it's been installed - if those problems can be fixed and those other steps automated away somehow, they should be, because that will improve the user experience and reliability of these packages across the board. Oh, wait. Mint already does that.

deny your shit by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:32 · Score: -1

I'm having problems finding a IT job because I don't want to have a Linkedn ir Shitbook account? I can't believe it. And I though I was only being targetted by cyber punksters after the princess of the nazi lost her virtual Barbie doll playing videos games.

Because we don't trust Canonical by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:36 · Score: 0

Duh.

Re:Because we don't trust Canonical by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:31 · Score: 0

So you would use a distro that is downstream from the one that you don't trust?
Re:Because we don't trust Canonical by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 03:47 · Score: 0

Linux Mint, Ubuntu Decraprified and consistent between versions.

Linux Mint by gabereiser · 2016-02-24 08:37 · Score: 0

The candy of choice for hackers everywhere.

mNod do3n by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:38 · Score: -1

myself. This isn't that has lost for trool5' approximately 90%

Re:mNod do3n by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:28 · Score: -1

We already knew you were an asshole, what's new?

Well for one thing... by shellster_dude · 2016-02-24 08:43 · Score: 5, Informative

Linux Mint isn't just Ubuntu. They also provide Linux Mint Debian Edition, which is far superior, IMHO.

Re:Well for one thing... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 10:09 · Score: 0

Yes. Until you decide to upgrade.
Total f. BS!
Re:Well for one thing... by js290 · 2016-02-24 14:29 · Score: 1

Debian Edition... Linux Mint just became compelling.

--
"Tempers are wearing thin. Let's just hope some robot doesn't kill everybody." --Bender
Re:Well for one thing... by Soft · 2016-02-24 19:41 · Score: 1

They also provide Linux Mint Debian Edition, which is far superior, IMHO.

I also thought LMDE was right for my needs about 2 years ago, but I was very disappointed when I realized they didn't do regular security updates other than Firefox and Thunderbird. Specifically, IIRC, OpenSSL's "heartbleed" hole took weeks to be (partly) patched, and I didn't see any updates of LibreOffice, ffmpeg, libnss, apt and others when vulnerabilities were announced in them.
I switched back to regular Mint, which uses Ubuntu's security package repositories directly.
However, I believe the LMDE people planned to change their methods after Debian Jessie became stable. Did they?
Re:Well for one thing... by Soft · 2016-02-24 19:44 · Score: 1

That's what I thought too, but before you switch, check my reply to grandparent post.
Re:Well for one thing... by Blaskowicz · 2016-02-24 20:07 · Score: 1

There will be an upgrade path from LMDE 2 to LMDE3, since they're using stable instead of frozen testing versions like before.
Re:Well for one thing... by osu-neko · 2016-02-25 02:12 · Score: 1

Yup! Things are much better under LMDE2 "Betsy". Not only is it updated regularly, it's updated more regularly than standard Mint!

--
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."

The problem is by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:47 · Score: 0

The Linux community is too concerned with feature churn and not concerned enough with security and stability. It starts from the kernel and flows on down. The BSDs have them laughably beat in this area.

Because that's how they run their distro. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 08:55 · Score: 1

If you don't think they do it well, clone it and roll your own. It's a free OS. Or, if you have a suggestion that's simple and easy to implement, why not talk to the maintainers and politely suggest it, instead of ragging on them in a third party forum?

I am so friggin tired of distro wars, and people criticizing maintainers who provide a service to others for free on third-party forums instead of making actual suggestions. You want to show off how much smarter you are than the people who do this for a living? Screw you.

nonsensical summary - anti-Mint FUD by iggymanz · 2016-02-24 08:56 · Score: 5, Insightful

The site in question used WordPress, which gets hacked early and often. Being hacked had nothing to do with how many Mint developers there are; it's more a commentary on flaws most php based platforms have.

Linux Mint chooses to blacklist certain applications in line with the project goals; these of course can be overridden at user's choice.

What a pile of FUD, I smell jealousy of Linux Mint's success as unlike Ubuntu the team does listen to end user needs and wants; while Ubuntu instead crams badly designed UI (Unity) down throats that neither meets needs nor was requested by anyone

Re:nonsensical summary - anti-Mint FUD by Pseudonymous+Powers · 2016-02-24 09:03 · Score: 2

Ubuntu ...crams badly designed UI (Unity) down throats that neither meets needs nor was requested by anyone.
You obviously haven't visited the Ubuntu forums since Unity was introduced. According to the forums, it seems that all the diehard Ubuntu fans liked Unity so much after it was forced down their throats that their collective love for it reached backwards through time and requested it from the future.
Re:nonsensical summary - anti-Mint FUD by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:10 · Score: 0

The site in question used WordPress, which gets hacked early and often. Being hacked had nothing to do with how many Mint developers there are; it's more a commentary on flaws most php based platforms have.
Linux Mint chooses to blacklist certain applications in line with the project goals; these of course can be overridden at user's choice.
What a pile of FUD, I smell jealousy of Linux Mint's success as unlike Ubuntu the team does listen to end user needs and wants; while Ubuntu instead crams badly designed UI (Unity) down throats that neither meets needs nor was requested by anyone
HesRightYouKnow.jpg
Re:nonsensical summary - anti-Mint FUD by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:42 · Score: 0

You're right, it's not about number but competence.
You run your download page on the same server and on the same user (www-data) as a phpBB forum and Wordpress blog? What?!
Re:nonsensical summary - anti-Mint FUD by iggymanz · 2016-02-24 10:00 · Score: 1

yes and systemd near the end of this year will have evolved to the point where it reached back in time and demanded its creation. If we see that happen again and again we know it's just systemd doing it up/down oscillation screwup thing it sometimes does
Re:nonsensical summary - anti-Mint FUD by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 11:25 · Score: 0

The site in question used WordPress, which gets hacked early and often.
Wordpress is the "larger problem" with a culture that is not sufficiently engaged in security.

Because the value added by Linux Mint is not only by denisbergeron · 2016-02-24 08:57 · Score: 1

I use it with Mate since day one.
I'm not a developer but Software architect and Mint Mate just do the job without any cumbersome thing to make it works with a normal stable DE unlike ubuntu.

And The distribution itself [DOESN'T] blacklists updates that work perfectly in Ubuntu and Debian, and the graphical utilities [DO] update the kernel when correctly configured when YRTF !

--
Ceci n'est pas une Signature !

re: the reason is MATE, not Cinnamon by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:02 · Score: 1

Right now hardly anyone knows that Ubuntu Mate exists.

In two months (16.04), expect a lot of Mint MATE and vanilla Ubuntu (Unity) users to discover that Ubuntu MATE exists. Once that happens, I expect to see Ubuntu MATE hit #1 on distrowatch. Currently, the lack of an LTS release is the main reason a lot of Mint MATE users haven't swiched to Ubuntu Mate already; that's why Mint is still #1 on distrowatch.

---
Gnome2 for life.

New Linux Mint names by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:04 · Score: -1

YALDNNAA (yet another linux distribution not needed at all)

YALDTSE (yet another linux distribution that shouldn't exist)

YALDWR (yet another linux distribution wasting resources)

YALDTH (yet another linux distribution to hack). I like this one, could be pronounced Y'all Death

I guess that is the freedom of Linux, but there are way too many distributions just because someone doesn't like something in one of the distributions. Instead of taking your energy to try and make a great distribution better, you fork and have a lot of energy up front, but then fizzle out like so many other one/two/three man projects.

Thanks, but I'll stick with the big ones here when it comes to serious work and not just playing around. Linux Mint along with so many others are simply just hobby distributions without any serious resources to remain alive long.

Re:New Linux Mint names by mattventura · 2016-02-24 11:41 · Score: 1

While I'm not sure that every *buntu "distro" needs to actually be a discrete distro, we're in this mess to begin with because DEs just love to shoot themselves in the foot. KDE 4 (at least they've improved somewhat), GNOME 3, Unity, you name it.

Re: Because the value added by Linux Mint is not o by iggymanz · 2016-02-24 09:05 · Score: 1

They were trying to portray as bad certain packages are by default not allowed, but its because of design decisions. of course that can be overridden...but I don't even get what basis their claim of no kernel updates comes from, of course it does them but doesn't jump kernel versions

Quality problems not specific to a single distro by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:09 · Score: 0, Insightful

I've been using Linux for many years. For most of them I was a very happy user. Linux distros in general were better than nearly all of the alternatives in terms of price, stability, quality, and capability. But I've seen all of those properties suffer these past several years.

It's not just the Linux kernel of course. It's the entire ecosystem of open source software that has built up around the Linux kernel that's suffering. GNOME 3 is atrocious, and way worse than GNOME 2. Recent releases of KDE have been very bloated. Xfce has stagnated. GCC is still slow. sysvinit wasn't great, but systemd is far worse. Wayland is nowhere to be seen. GTK+ 3 is archaic. Firefox gets worse with each release. LibreOffice is slow and bloated.

Linux and open source software used to represent great potential. They used to be better than proprietary software. Yet today they're worse. I don't think that the proprietary software has gotten better. Instead, it's the open source software that has gotten worse over time. GNOME 3 is probably the best example of how a great product can be ruined so quickly.

I don't know what to do at this point. Switching to FreeBSD is looking like the most likely option. It still suffers from some of the same problems as Linux distros do, due to it using a lot of open source software, too. But at least it will minimize the problems by FreeBSD itself being of an extraordinarily high quality, and it using better alternatives (like Clang and LLVM instead of GCC) where possible. If that doesn't work, then I'll have to try OS X or Windows 10. I never thought I'd say myself saying this, but Windows 10 is starting to look like a better option for me than most Linux distros are.

I need an operating system that works well and that is reliable. As much as I don't want to use FreeBSD or OS X or even Windows, if they provide me a better experience than Linux then I'll just have to use them instead of Linux.

Linux Mint just works. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:09 · Score: 5, Informative

That's the value for me, it works out of the box for all the hardware I've used it on so far. Unlike Ubuntu which has issues of it's own lately for me. Before the hack hit I had Mint installed on an MSI laptop with and Nvidia card and the thing fired up out of the box with no issues. Only thing I had to do was turn off that secure boot garbage in the bios which was easy.

Maybe Mint isn't the ideal distribution for people and maybe it could be done better. Still it's doing things right enough for me to use it and run Steam on it with no issues for all the games that provide native Linux ports. Could Ubuntu do it? Maybe but I hate Unity and Gnome 3. I also don't want one of the side distributions because unlike Mint I feel like they're treated as second class from the main one.

Re:Linux Mint just works. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 13:28 · Score: 0

You're lucky because Mint would not boot to X on my newish hardware, yet Ubuntu didn't seem to have a problem.
Re:Linux Mint just works. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 01:38 · Score: 0

I felt the same back in early 2005, when both stable/testing Debian refused to recognize the GPU on my 1st laptop (lowly Averatec - that was my own greed to save $200+ and buy that piece of garbage at CC, the company (and the store) went under since then...) and I "had" to switch to what worked - Ubuntu. I also felt like a traitor for a while, after 4 years on Debian desktop, going for proprietary binary blobs of polished "commercial" distro, that actually worked for me. Guess what, 11 years later, I'm back to Debian+XFCE on a budget Dell laptop, a bundle that just works again for my needs...

Submitter forgot 'no shopping lens' by Cyberpunk+Reality · 2016-02-24 09:10 · Score: 2

While I understand that the overlords of commerce like to pretend that nothing could ever be wrong with anything even remotely advertising-related, the reality is that Ubuntu foundation did itself some irreparable damage with that incident.

--
Rule 35 of the internet: "If it can be hacked, it will be". - Charles Stross

Re:Submitter forgot 'no shopping lens' by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 12:04 · Score: 0

that's why we should stay with the source, debian, (rip ian), which remains clean - and they even include unofficial spins with nonfree binary luv
as for a systemd free modern version, that is getting more difficult, so i hope we can somehow simplify and shrink systemd to a bare minimum, honestly the thought of an os running a web service no matter the justification is like hanging yourself from getgo - perhaps an old school approach - so - get off my lawn lol
Re:Submitter forgot 'no shopping lens' by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 15:13 · Score: 0

Go ahead, show where a base debian Jessie install is running a web service
...
Oh right, more anti-systemd FUD.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:23 · Score: -1

You're a moron. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Not only is almost everything you say untrue, but it doesn't even matter whether or not it's true: you've contributed nothing towards it, and if your needs are such that any of the alternatives you mentioned can fit them, use them and be damned.

Rhetorical by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:27 · Score: 0

Why does Ubuntu need to distribute anything more than a shell script to build Linux from sources or precompiled binaries?

Because branding means more than reality, that's why. If you want to fix it then go LFS.

The truth is Mint the brand means more than anything and that's the problem with our society as a whole. Nobody cares about the Internals.

It's the same thing with the Internet, hell I work with people in Networking who don't even know what L1/2/3 is.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by zwarte+piet · 2016-02-24 09:29 · Score: 0

Write your own and open source it. Some of us might be willing to help.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by dimko · 2016-02-24 09:32 · Score: 0

Shhhh! Don't scare him. Later lads, popcorn time!

A non-technical writer? by pigsycyberbully · 2016-02-24 09:33 · Score: -1

And non-technical Linux user. Linux desktop is a Linux desktop is a Linux desktop is a Linux desktop is a Linux desktop. It's the same software performing the same functions. The non-technical Windows user a non-technical Mac user. What is that supposed to mean? Is it like a car the disabled car is not as desirable or skilful as the non-disabled car? My daddy is bigger than your daddy? What the fuck does it mean? I don't just use the car I built the car I don't smoke cigarettes from a cigarette box I roll my own. Is this like a silly saying from a non-technical writer?

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by buck-yar · 2016-02-24 09:42 · Score: 2

Look into Slackware

Interesting Statement by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:51 · Score: 0

The distribution itself blacklists updates that work perfectly in Ubuntu and Debian,

It is good security practice to blacklist Mono, then disable Samba if you have no Windows machines to talk to.

Re:Interesting Statement by Blaskowicz · 2016-02-24 11:12 · Score: 1

A friend uses Samba on his Linux Mint machine to read video on the set-top box, which presumably runs linux.
The nice part is he set it up by himself! likely by right-clicking the directory. Formerly known as the guy whom every body wouldn't dare touch his Windows XP PC full of god knows what spyware and inscrutable cruft.

Clueless Poster by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:53 · Score: 0

The article was submitted by someone who doesn't know what he's talking about nor does he know anything about the history of Linux Mint. I use Linux Mate DE. It has nothing to do with Ubuntu and nothing to do with Cinnamon.

omg... what fud... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 09:58 · Score: 0

you can have any kernel you want to.... they push out security updates... used mint update and select kernel update and you get a list of 20-30 of them. Been running mint on parent's pc since version 6.

Oh look! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 10:06 · Score: 0

Concern trolling masquerading as content!

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 10:12 · Score: 1, Insightful

I don't know what to do at this point.

I do. Wipe your i-don-wanna can't-do-it tears in your fucking sleeve, pick yourself up out of your self-pity, tie your shoes like a big boy and get to work figuring things out, working hard and making things better like the rest of us.

Honestly. I've had it with you people. You want a nice little machine to fellate you? Ask Redmond or Cupertino. You want to build your own hot rod? Be a man and hit the books, FFS.

Kernel updates actually are in the GUI by Blaskowicz · 2016-02-24 10:23 · Score: 2

It's in "Update Manager", "View", "Linux Kernels".
Also allows to delete kernels although that is slow, and must be done one by one.

It has to be said, although updates to the kernel are never automatic. Thus pproximately no one does them I'd say.
In fact, with straight Ubuntu I had to do the apt-get get dist-upgrade described in the story to update the kernel (which I did very rarely) and I did not bother with graphical tools. Now there's a likable graphical tool for updates, so instead of the graphical stuff disabled or not present I get notified for every software non-kernel update that comes up.

I don't know about security updates held up, and I don't use Cinnamon (can't buy an Intel graphics card to run a desktop). This I believe is where's most of the hackery due to e.g. GTK3 upstream constantly trying to ruin the game for devs that are not building UIs that look like a cross of Mac OS and Windows 8.
The article seems fairly preposterous. For me the Mate and Xfce editions are where it's at and yes the default themes etc. are a good reason, along with cross-DE tools. Not gonna using and pushing some hastily thrown together desktop with e.g. a black task bar on top rather than a gray task bar on bottom, ugly icons and wallpapers and so on.

Re:Kernel updates actually are in the GUI by klui · 2016-02-24 11:33 · Score: 1

I installed Linux Mint around a year back but I did not like getting a lot of conflicts whenever I perform a dist-upgrade. The conflicts had to do with branding between Mint and Ubuntu. Does it still happen with the current version?
Re:Kernel updates actually are in the GUI by iggymanz · 2016-02-24 15:21 · Score: 1

been using Linux Mint since july 2011 but never saw that, which package/apps were involved with that problem? only problems I've had in past were getting nvidia driver to be stable, sometimes the one Mint wanted to install was the best, other times I'd have to manually install order or newer version right from nvidia site. in last 18 months the distro one (with updates) has been stable

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 10:25 · Score: 0

The guy that owns Slackware is a giant douchebag. I wouldn't use his OS again if he paid me to.

Re: Quality problems not specific to a single dist by bryanp · 2016-02-24 10:44 · Score: 4, Insightful

You want a nice little machine to fellate you?

Apparently I've been buying the wrong computers. Tell me more about these nice little machines.

--
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper

I like comments in subjects by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 10:49 · Score: 0

n/t

the bubble burst by jjohn_h · 2016-02-24 10:51 · Score: 1

Linux Mint Cinnamon was a bubble waiting to burst. Bursting it did last week in an oblique way. If you want Cinnamon, install it under Debian or Ubuntu.

Re:the bubble burst by iggymanz · 2016-02-24 15:10 · Score: 1

huh? it what way did Linux Mint be a bubble that in any way shape or form "burst"? only thing that happened was wordpress blog cracked and link changed.
Linux mint offers more than just cinnamon or mate, you seem to be uniformed on the differences.
You also seem to be grossly exaggerating the event as somehow a bad reflection of Linux Mint quality. Ubuntu and Debian both have done far, far worse things. Like Debian's epic SSL blunder a few years back.

Spearmint by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 11:05 · Score: 0

Time to break out that secure website/download server and distro knowledge and start a Spearmint variant.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by mattventura · 2016-02-24 11:12 · Score: 5, Insightful

Xfce has stagnated.

Great! I'd rather have something that goes nowhere at all than something that goes downhill. Software that improves itself while avoiding the eventual downhill part is extremely hard to come by, which is backed up by all the examples you posted. Putting a bunch of developers on a project yet managing to make it worse is just a waste of human resources.

Haters gonna hate but by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 11:29 · Score: 0

If there is ever going to be "The year of the Linux desktop", Mint with Cinnamon has the best shot. IMHO

Whynot use the source? - debian live cinnamon spin by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 11:43 · Score: 0

debian live has an excellent cinnamon spin, and non-free in the non-official area, its good++

http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/8.3.0-live+nonfree/

Lol, What by bobmajdakjr · 2016-02-24 11:46 · Score: 1

did i read that right? if that writer just called mint "broken ubuntu" I want to buy him a beer then slap him upside the head, as that is damn comical.

Re: the reason is MATE, not Cinnamon by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 11:52 · Score: 0

GNOME for life!

We all know who is responsible by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 13:13 · Score: 0

Fucking GCHQ.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by donaldm · 2016-02-24 13:21 · Score: 2

I don't know what to do at this point. Switching to FreeBSD is looking like the most likely option. It still suffers from some of the same problems as Linux distros do, due to it using a lot of open source software, too. But at least it will minimize the problems by FreeBSD itself being of an extraordinarily high quality, and it using better alternatives (like Clang and LLVM instead of GCC) where possible.

I can install and use Clang and LLVM under Linux as well. Interesting troll though.

--
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.

Hacker for hire by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 13:22 · Score: -1

Do you require services of a certified and experienced ethical hacker for your
general ethical and specialized Hacks?
+ Contact us at leehacks92@gmail.com,serious enquiries only!

Hubris? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 13:55 · Score: 0

Hubris, probably.

Re: the reason is MATE, not Cinnamon by theskipper · 2016-02-24 13:59 · Score: 1

Thanks for pointing that out, hadn't heard of the project. And after spending some time on the site, it looks like you may be right. This may be the distro that fixes the damage from the UI wars. Going to try it in a VM and throw a few bucks in the tip jar just because they seem to have their heads screwed on straight.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by Bengie · 2016-02-24 14:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

Write your own and open source it

Exactly what is wrong with opensource right now. So much crap. Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's not crap. Please, please. Don't just start your own code unless you know what you're doing.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 14:30 · Score: 1

I didn't like Gnome 3 or Unity at all, KDE was ok, but annoyed me in small ways that eventually caused me to switch (granted that was years ago, might be better now), while XFCE was ok. When I tried Cinnamon though, I loved it.

Re: Quality problems not specific to a single dist by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 15:03 · Score: 0

This is definitely a difference between the bsd and Linux crowd. I think Xfce is great; if it's not broke, what's to fix? It's only an opportunity to make a good thing worse. Besides, there's a plugin interface you can write new stuff to easily, if you want to.

However much you think you're invested in Linux, you're not as invested like the people you're demanding make things 'better'. If you can't even articulate what you actually want, other than better, then you're setting up all the guys who want to do something bold like gnome3 or go conservative and stable like Xfce. I can't believe anyone would shit on Xfce. It's got to be the most stable environment on Linux or bsd.

Gentoo by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 15:56 · Score: 0

Because I like rice.

The OP has no clue by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 20:15 · Score: 1

There are many things Mint does that Buntu does not. For example, the software centre is much better and comes with important software such as Steam. Buntu, last time I checked, blacklisted Steam because they probably view them as a competitor. Furthermore, I'm glad they hold back on some of Ubuntu updates until they're tested more.

Re the comment on kernel updates, it could hardly be easier in Mint. Open the update manager where the regular updates are listed. Select "View" from the Menu bar, then select "Kernels" which opens up a list of all the kernels.

Re:The OP has no clue by Blaskowicz · 2016-02-24 21:28 · Score: 1

Watch your free space though, adding a kernel takes hundreds of megabytes.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 21:13 · Score: 0

XFCE is not stagnant. The users WANT it to stay the same. It's also highly configurable, you can change things around so much that it's unrecognizable compared to the original layout. Again, the XFCE community doesn't want change, you see what change did to Gnome.

Re: Quality problems not specific to a single dist by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 21:14 · Score: 0

You want a nice little machine to fellate you?

Apparently I've been buying the wrong computers. Tell me more about these nice little machines.

Ah, so *that's* why everyone get's so excited about the MATE desktop. I have heard good things about the user experience it can offer.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 21:20 · Score: 0

It's the entire ecosystem of open source software that has built up around the Linux kernel that's suffering. GNOME 3 is atrocious, and way worse than GNOME 2. Recent releases of KDE have been very bloated. Xfce has stagnated. GCC is still slow. sysvinit wasn't great, but systemd is far worse. Wayland is nowhere to be seen. GTK+ 3 is archaic. Firefox gets worse with each release. LibreOffice is slow and bloated.

I think by "ecosystem of open source software", you mean "projects with a massive scope".

XFCE and GCC are the only ones you listed that don't have a massive scope -- merely large.

It's no surprise that when the scope is massive, you don't have enough developers. Keep the scope reasonable and you have something that may work.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 21:24 · Score: 0

Great! I'd rather have something that goes nowhere at all than something that goes downhill.

Well, if temporary setbacks are not allowed, there is never an advance after the local maximum is reached.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-24 22:22 · Score: 0

Really? That's too bad. I was going to pay you $195,000 if you would install Slackware on your computer. But since you don't want it, I'll make the offer to somebody else.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by houghi · 2016-02-24 23:46 · Score: 1

I really liked Windowmaker. At one moment I went to XFCE due to driver issues, What I liked is that the only thing it did was out things on my desktop. It did not try to do anything else.

Now we have a booty system that wants to do everything, running a kernel that trees to do everything, launching a desktop that tries to do everything with a browser that wants to do everything.

One of the reasons I started with Linux, because I liked how everything was separated (Last Windows version was Windows 95 without IE) and now we have this mess.

I like that I have 25 different programs and that each program can be replaced with something I like for reason only I know and only I need to know.

At this moment I run KDE, GNOME and XFCE programs at the same time, because sometimes I like one more than the other for any random reason.

Mmmm. Perhaps I should look back into Windowmaker as new drivers are out since a few years.

--
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.

Wow by ThatsNotPudding · 2016-02-25 00:47 · Score: 1

Anon really hates Mint.

Mark Shuttleworth, is that you?

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 02:56 · Score: 0

[...]As much as I don't want to use FreeBSD or OS X or even Windows, if they provide me a better experience than Linux then I'll just have to use them instead of Linux.

Nice troll, but you forgot the goatse.cx link at the end.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 03:17 · Score: 0

Don't just start your own code unless you know what you're doing.

The best way to know is to try. It's a little thing we call 'learning.' This learning is frequently necessary. This may not be the same from where you are from but humans on this planet are rarely borne coding expert level C and designing secure websites. Most people are good if they can cry and poop themselves on day one.

You pay for what you get. For a lot of free software the price is merely the correct one for the quality. If you got anything better it was because someone else paid your way - usually by learning on that way.

Re: Quality problems not specific to a single dist by Voyager529 · 2016-02-25 03:47 · Score: 1

You want a nice little machine to fellate you?

Apparently I've been buying the wrong computers. Tell me more about these nice little machines.

Well, it's generally illegal (and socially frowned upon) to outright purchase them. However, you can request one. Random expenditures (patterned fabric, very small bits of precision forged metal, and colorful plants) and dialog are usually requirements, and their firmware is generally considered to be difficult to understand and changes frequently with minimal documentation. If you manage to acquire one in exclusivity, upgrading is incredibly expensive.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 04:11 · Score: 0

Please clarify; what does the window manager have to do with drivers?

Re: Quality problems not specific to a single dist by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 04:25 · Score: 0

difficult to understand and changes frequently with minimal documentation
So, you're saying they run Linux?

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by Karzz1 · 2016-02-25 05:42 · Score: 1

Many modern desktops require 3D.

--
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by david_thornley · 2016-02-25 06:40 · Score: 1

Case in point: Microsoft Windows UI, which peaked at Windows 7 and is showing no signs of anything as good as stagnating since.

--
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by camg188 · 2016-02-25 07:02 · Score: 1

Do you always base your product selection on the personality of the owner of the company? That's like the last thing I look at, particularly if I never meet or interact with that person.

Thanks (Re:Well for one thing...) by Soft · 2016-02-25 07:17 · Score: 1

Thanks for the information, I might give LMDE another try.

I was an original contributor but .... by zenjester · 2016-02-25 07:31 · Score: 1

left at the release 12 when clem got a) very political about Palestine b) very commercially focussed. c) obsessed by cinnamon when actually KDE was the most stable and popular spin oh I went to manjaro coz it has a boss i3 spin. https://manjaro.github.io/Manj...

Now I don't know what I want by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 08:56 · Score: 0

You make a good point. I went to mint because it was the easiest way to get Ubuntu base w/cinnamon. Now I'm not sure why I shouldn't go to straight Debian with cinnamon on top.

Re: Quality problems not specific to a single dis by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 10:50 · Score: 0

I'm with you. I'll buy one of these machines for each room and the mobile for the car too.

Because if you know what your doing... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 17:02 · Score: 0

The article describes the fact that an 'overall problem exists'. However an issue with a web page should be the least of their\our issues. The site provides checksum calculations that should be used, though that is somewhat besides the point as it can be adjusted if the site is truly taken over (if it is). Wordpress is very much the easiest CMS to install and get running (by far) (Google it). And just as easy to take over (mainly when you add plugins). But besides that, security topics have become a flamboyant topic, but generally lack overall emphasis on the general code that is applied due to vast amounts of coding that very few topics will include. In reality, while linux has adopted different philosophies, Ubuntu has been ever increasing in both the user environment and business world, which has lead to less emphasis on the individual person's security and certain sacrifices that many traditional Linux\Unix might not always agree with. While no lines of code will be included in this post, I will also remind you that Linux Mint is and still will be one of the best distributions around. If you want to help, instead of posting something such as the above topic, maybe you should spend your time writing some code instead.

Re: Quality problems not specific to a single dist by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-25 19:00 · Score: 0

Samsung has you covered:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvCGqhShNnk

Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr by beastofburdon · 2016-02-26 02:29 · Score: 1

The bit about Gnome 3 was spot on though.

Re: Quality problems not specific to a single dist by spkay31 · 2016-03-01 06:24 · Score: 1

Listen to Joe's Garage, Zappa explains it all. Di-chromium in serious leather

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Linux Mint Hack Is an Indicator of a Larger Problem (techrepublic.com)

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