Slashdot Mirror


Swedish Scientist Suggests That There Is Only One Earth (blastingnews.com)

MarkWhittington writes: The conventional wisdom has been among scientists is that a myriad of Earth-like planets exist in the universe, some of which have to be the abode of life, even intelligent life. However, Astrophysicist Erik Zackrisson from Uppsala University in Sweden has run a computer simulation of the universe, incorporating what we know about exoplanets thanks to the Kepler Space Telescope, the laws of physics, and the state of the early universe. The computer simulation came up with exactly one Earth, which is to say the one we live on. Every other planet in the universe does not have the conditions necessary to sustain life. Indeed, strictly speaking, Earth itself should not exist, according to the computer model, according to the story in Discover Magazine.

31 of 720 comments (clear)

  1. Duh. Because God made it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I read it in a book

    1. Re:Duh. Because God made it by s122604 · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's good to see science start reconciling itself to the real Truth

      There will be enough learned men writhing eternally in the lake of fire as it is..

    2. Re:Duh. Because God made it by Iamthecheese · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah! God loves you so much that he'll torture forever if you don't love him back.

      --
      If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
    3. Re:Duh. Because God made it by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You might be right, but from a human perspective, God can really be a colossal dick.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    4. Re:Duh. Because God made it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is how I know every god-based theism is wrong. Any sort of supreme consciousness would not care about things like "worship" or "tribute". These are egotistical human constructs and reflect the mindset of the people who lived in ancient times when most religions were created -- where a "god" would behave like a king or overlord. The Bible even uses these terms explicitly to refer to God and Jesus.

    5. Re:Duh. Because God made it by slashping · · Score: 5, Funny

      So it is like loving a sandwich after all.

    6. Re:Duh. Because God made it by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In Christianity, one does not "love" God like one "loves" a person -- or a dog -- or a sandwich. It's not the same thing.

      Lol, anyone that "loves" me enough to drown the entire planet and kill everyone, including babies and innocent people on other continents, is someone whose love I can do without, thankyouverymuch.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    7. Re: Duh. Because God made it by GammaKitsune · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In the exact same sense that you can choose to pay protection money to the mob, or have your shins bashed in with a baseball bat. It is your choice, not something Vinny did to you.

      --
      Gamertag: WyleType
    8. Re:Duh. Because God made it by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thanks for hijacking this thread with an offtopic anti-theist thread that goes on forever. I'd like to discuss the fucking article if you fake nerds don't mind.

      This is something I've argued for a long time: WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CONDITIONS NECESSARY FOR LIFE ARE. I'm agnostic on the subject. As far as we know the universe could be teeming with life, but in our galaxy we're the only one. It's possible that, as this guys simulations show, this is the universe's only life.

      People THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUBJECT AND EVERY FUCKING ONE OF YOUR RELIGIOUS COMMENTS ARE OFF TOPIC. This has nothing whatever to do with religion.

      Fucking high school dropouts... slashdot is turning into facebook.

  2. Then he's doing it wrong. by tekrat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If his model says that Earth should not exist, then there's something wrong with his model.

    Also, considering how life thrives even in hostile environments here on Earth, it's simply a mathematical impossibility that there are no other planets in the universe capable of supporting some kind of life.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:Then he's doing it wrong. by Notorious+G · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is a computer model. It's, like, science bro. You can't argue with a computer model, that's some ironclad stuff that a consensus of scientists have already ruled on. You must be in the pockets of "Big Life" or something.

    2. Re:Then he's doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is what he's saying. If you've got a "model" then you should be able to make predictions from it and test those predictions. In this case, his model predicted "There's no way Earth could happen based on this." so we know his model is off. That can be a good thing, as it can give us more specific insights as to where our understanding of physics has its gaps, if his model is true to our laws of physics.

      Because there's not just Earth. Mars isn't "far off" from being habitable, and neither is Jupiter's Enchilada Stand. 3 spots in a single, relatively small solar system that have the geological potential to bear life are showing 3 massive errors in our understanding of the universe's development.

    3. Re:Then he's doing it wrong. by sims+2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And this model is infallible just like the hundreds of thousands of computer models before it. GIGO Garbage in garbage out.

      --
      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    4. Re:Then he's doing it wrong. by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "should not exist" does not mean it "cannot exist". So the model could be correct.

    5. Re: Then he's doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Does that mean Earth can exist, but it would be in poor taste if it does?

    6. Re:Then he's doing it wrong. by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 4, Funny

      Michael Crichton once gave a long talk on global warming being caused by aliens. He had ... difficulties with the scientific community. Mostly this comes from stuff like the Drake Equation having dozens of different, unknown, unknowable, unpredictable, and barely-definable variables to say, "If we make a bunch of shit up to fill in here, we get infinite or zero aliens coming to visit us ever!" The same kinds of mathematical models are used for global warming and nuclear winters--claiming that so much volcanic output, so many nukes, such yield of nukes, some positioning, the anger of the Yellowstone Caldera, and so forth would lead to so much ash in the air, which, given some arbitrary behaviors of air currents, would lead to a reduction of insolation, leading to some years of freezing.

      We're looking at more of these models here. The scientists are saying, "Based on unknown, unknowable, unmeasured variables which we jammed into a very sound equation and then filled with made-up data, there are some number of life-sustaining planets out there!" They're putting in "reasonable guesses" and declaring results.

    7. Re:Then he's doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      He's from the Climatology School of Modeling.

    8. Re:Then he's doing it wrong. by Agent0013 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's not what he's saying. He says that earths are statistically rare.

      And how can he possibly know that given the tiny sample size of solar systems we have seen so far compared to the number in the universe? Suppose the chance of an Earth-like world forming is one in a billion. Given the number of solar systems we have studied so far it would be entirely possible that we had not seen one so far and yet with 400 billion stars there would be 400 "Earths" in the Milky-way alone let alone in the billions of galaxies in the universe. Extrapolating to a universe of billions of galaxies each with hundreds of billions of stars using a sample size of what, a few thousand?, ten thousand?, is statistically daft...and having a model which agrees with your statistically insignificant sample does not make it any better.

      It seems worse than that to me. He isn't just using a small sample size, he is using a sample that is skewed toward large planets that are close to their parent star. How many exo-Plutos have we found? How about exo-Mercurys? I don't think we have even found a planet as small as earth yet, but I could be wrong on that. When the reports of exo-Earths have come out they have been larger than our Earth, but they call them an exo-Earth because it might be in the Goldilocks zone.

      Car analogies work so well, lets use one here. We will make a model that recreates all the cars on the road. But we will only input the semi-trucks and tour buses. I bet the model will say that sports cars are highly unlikely. I think the term is GIGO, Garbage In - Garbage Out.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    9. Re:Then he's doing it wrong. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If I recall correctly, we don't yet have the capability to detect Earth sized planets. They are just barely out of our detection range. However, when we were able to detect super-Jupiter sized planets, we found a lot of them. As our detection size shrinks, the number of planets found keeps growing. If this holds up, then in when we finally get down to being able to detect Earth-sized planets, things could get interesting.

      Of course, then there are moons. Imagine a solar system like our own, but with Jupiter where we are. Jupiter wouldn't be habitable, but Europa might be. A large moon orbiting a gas giant might be able to sustain life and all we'd see from here (at the moment) is "gas giant in the habitable zone, move on."

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    10. Re:Then he's doing it wrong. by hey! · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, a lot of the language we're using to talk about this is unsatisfyingly vague. What does it mean that "the Earth should not exist"? And especially "strictly speaking"; people misuse that phrase the way they misuse "literally" -- i.e. to mean exactly the opposite of what it actually does.

      If the model strictly speaking precludes the existence of the Earth, then the model was constructed wrongly. But what if the model simply predicts that the most likely number of Earth-like planets is zero? That would not, strictly speaking, preclude the Earth existing. Presumably the next most likely number of Earths would be one, followed by two etc.

      In any case I have some experience with models of complex systems about which data is somewhat spotty -- in my case zoonotic diseases, which depend on all kinds of things which we don't have very good data about. So we run them with suppositions, which we dignify by calling "parameters". The thing about such models is that they're mainly useful in generating research questions than making predictions. We might not know exactly how quickly a virus amplifies inside a disease vector like a mosquito; if the model suggests that human transmissions go up rapidly with shorter amplification times, then that becomes a research priority. It can't tell you that if zika virus establishes itself in Miami this year that we'll get 22 cases.

      It seems to me that we're at an analogous place with models of exosolar planets. We've only been detecting them for a few years, so while it's a reasonable starting point to assume that they're representative of planets in the universe as a whole, that isn't necessarily true. Indeed it's possible we'll never be able to observe a representative sample of planets.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  3. Oh dear by jfdavis668 · · Score: 4, Funny

    `Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.

  4. Re:As Q would say... Oh, the arrogance! by Lispy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If earth is such an uncommon place to live in, then maybe we, in fact, are the extremophiles

  5. Based on what we know about exoplanets by amRadioHed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The huge problem here is that his data is based on what we know about exoplanets so far. Of course his model will show most of the planets are much larger than earth. Those are the ones we're able to find so far.

    --
    We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
  6. If accurate, this is good news. But be skeptical by JoshuaZ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If this is accurate this is good news. One of the standard explanations for the Fermi Paradox is that Earth-like planets are very rare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis. You may ask why this is good news? The reason is that something is making civilizations rare. We don't see any signs of major civilizations, either in terms of visits, radio waves, or most importantly, megastructures and large-scale engineering projects. At this point, we've looked at 100,000 nearby galaxies and essentially none of them show signs of a highly advanced civilization in terms of energy use http://www.universetoday.com/119931/100000-galaxies-and-no-obvious-signs-of-life/.

    The standard explanation for this is that there is some "Great Filter" which is making civlizations rare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter. If this is something in our past (e.g. habitable planets are rare, it is tough for life to evolve, it is hard to get those last few steps to necessary levels of intelligence, etc.) then we don't need to worry. But if it is something in our future, something that civilizations do to wipe themselves(e.g. nuclear war, bad nanotech) out then we're in trouble. We need to figure this out soon, since if there is a future Filter then it likely occurs very close to our current tech level.

    Every piece of evidence for early filters should make us breathe more easily since it makes late filters less necessary. Unfortunately in the last few years, almost all new evidence has been in the other direction: we've found lots of planets and it looks like even small, rocky planets are common. So this is a refreshing piece of news. However, I'm very skeptical of it. First, it seems to go against other similar studies suggesting that as many as 1/3rd of stars may have an Earth-like planet (see e.g. here http://www.universetoday.com/119931/100000-galaxies-and-no-obvious-signs-of-life/) and they appear in order to be getting this result in part to be using an extremely narrow notion of what a habitable planet would look like.

  7. Or to put it more simply by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 4, Funny

    There may be life, Jim, but not as we know it.


    Sensor scans are inconclusive. I recommend an away team investigate more closely.

  8. Science articles suck. by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When one refers to a "1 in a million chance" they are not implying that they actually tried something 1 million times and it only worked once. They are implying that *if* they would have tried something 1 million times it would have only worked once. So if you win the lottery jackpot, your winning ticket was still "1 in 300 million" regardless of how many other tickets you bought or how many exist.

    The title of the article is "Earth may be a 1-in-700 quintillion kind of place", but the article cites the 700-quintillion number as the total number of planets, and then goes on to say that according to the scientist's calculations, the earth should probably not exist (i.e. the odds of an earth like planet are even lower than 1 in 700-quintillion). So what are the odds that earth should exist? Who knows, it's not even mentioned.

    This would be like if I reported on some guy winning the powerball and said "This guy bought 100 lottery tickets and one of the tickets won the jackpot. That was an amazingly improbable event that happened, making the ticket a "1 in a hundred kind of ticket.""

    I have no idea if the statistical analysis done by this scientists is good or bad. But all I ask is that it is presented in a way that is coherent.

  9. Re: Earth itself should not exist... by Zephyn · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...according to the computer model.

    Says something about the model, then, doesn't it?

    Yeah. Since it was created on Earth, it shouldn't exist either. But I'm not really telling you this.

  10. Anthropic Principle by bigdavex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Anthropic Principle
    We tend not to observe universes in which life is impossible.

    --
    -Dave
  11. Re:If accurate, this is good news. But be skeptica by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    All this speculation is pretty silly IMO, because you're trying to draw conclusions about possible civilizations far more advanced than ours, using a ridiculously small and limited amount of data from a civilization that hasn't even really left its own planet yet, except for a few primitive robotic probes within its system and one manned mission to its nearby moon for rock collecting. We haven't even visited our nearest neighboring system.

    We have no idea how many habitable planets are out there, because we can't even detect them. All the exoplanets we've seen have been big and very close to their stars, because that's what our limited technology allows us to see. We would not be able to see an Earth in orbit around Alpha Centauri, much less a much farther star. 20 years ago, we didn't even know definitively about any exoplanets at all, but when we developed the capability of seeing "hot Jupiters" suddenly we started seeing hundreds of them. Most likely, there's an enormous number of Earth-sized planets out there, we just can't see them yet.

    The search for radio waves is dumb. We don't even use high-powered radio waves any more, we only did for a very brief time, and radio is very hard to detect over large distances due to the Inverse Square Law. The whole SETI search seems to be based on the silly idea that ETs are out there, working their asses off to build the biggest radio transmitters they possibly can and then devoting all their energy to powering them, just so they can point these transmitters at us to send us a signal. We don't do that, so why do we assume anyone else is going to?

    The megastructure thing is pretty silly too: a Dyson sphere (or better yet, a Dyson swarm which is much more realistic) wouldn't be easily detectable by us because it'd be blocking all the star's light, and would only be detectable by IR radiation. Are we even actively looking for such things? And would we be able to detect them?

    Honestly, even if there were a Star Trek TNG-level civilization out there in the Delta Quadrant, we wouldn't be able to see it. It's too far away, and we wouldn't be able to detect their technology. There's a lack of signs of civilizations because we do not have the capability of seeing them, and we haven't put that much effort into looking, and certainly not into leaving our star system to check out neighboring systems. It's a lot like living on an island and concluding there's no other civilization out there because you haven't seen any come visit you, when you haven't even bothered building a boat and looking for yourself.

  12. Drake and Equations by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually, according to Dr. Drake, the inventor of the Drake Equation, founder of SETI, Earth is becoming less visible all the time. The satellites you talk about aren't pointed out into space, they are pointed towards Earth. We have also switched from analog to digital transmissions, so essentially everything we're transmitting at this point is indistinguishable from noise. Broadcasting large amounts of energy into the universe in analog is not something that we can expect other civilizations to do for a very long time, if our own civilization is any guide. Not only that, but the Sun also produces a fair amount of radio-frequency radiation, so there's a pretty high noise floor. Even when we're trying to talk to Mars, the SNR is miserable.

    The odds against detecting extraterrestrial transmissions, or extraterrestrials detecting us, are so insurmountably vast as to defy description. I think that Dr. Drake should accept the logical conclusions of his statements and end the SETI project. We have met the Great Filter and he is us.

    --
    Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
  13. Re:The Color of God by flopsquad · · Score: 5, Informative

    The "half colorblind world" is not an apt analogy for faith in God.

    A defining feature of faith is the untestability of its object. The inability to convincingly communicate it is not. Nor is the unawareness of a provably extant characteristic.

    In half colorblind world, you could perform any number of tests to show that color-sighted people can distinguish patterns or shapes of equal luminosity but different hue.

    Likewise, colorblind scientists would be able to investigate both the visible spectrum and the effect various wavelengths had on the weird cone structures that only existed in the eyes of color-sighted people.

    That analogy might work better for antivaxxers or climate deniers. "We know this is something you can't poke with a stick, but you'll have to take it on 'faith' that the overwhelming conclusion from hundreds of studies is that some people can discern different parts of the visible spectrum."

    --
    Nothing posted to /. has ever been legal advice, including this.