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America's Ten Most Oppressive Colleges

An anonymous reader writes: A new review of free speech on campuses across the United States has listed the country's ten most oppressive colleges, with examples of why they earned this odious status.

The first link is the actual report, while the second provides a good quick summary. In either case, the behavior of college officials in attempting to squelch dissent is quite disgusting. Far more horrifying and worrisome for the future were the number of cases where the students themselves moved to stamp down on opposing views. They are the future, and that future does not look pleasant. In South Carolina students are suing their college for interrogating them for daring to hold an event in support of free speech that offended some students.

385 comments

  1. Triumph comic dog visitng non-oppressive college by JoeyRox · · Score: 4, Funny
  2. Fuck you and your "safe space" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You have no right not to be offended.

    Shove your idea of "microagressions" right up your ass. So it can be near your brain.

    1. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You have no right not to be offended.

      Shove your idea of "microagressions" right up your ass. So it can be near your brain.

      My employer made me and everyone in the department (that's thousands of people) take a microagressions training session. Utter bullshit. "Pretend to be nice to hopeless incompetents, because it's their bad feelz that makes them hopeless engineers" seemed to be the message.

       

    2. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      My employer made me and everyone in the department (that's thousands of people) take a microagressions training session.

      Sensitivity training was quite popular in the 1990's, especially when the only women in the entire company worked in HR.

    3. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to be confusing aggression and microaggression.

    4. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you're offended by people who get offended.

    5. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a right to free speech because we all agree you do.

      So you have no right to offend unless we all agree you do.

      "Natural rights" are the concept of a sky wizard.

      There are no 'natural rights.' If people don't believe in unlimited free speech because lying planet destroying assholes want to urinate all over them with racist sexist piss, then they have just as much of a 'right' to say fuck off as you do to tell them to fuck off in turn.

    6. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by idontgno · · Score: 2

      I like Zoidberg's approach to peer review:

      "Your design's bad and you should feel bad!"

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    7. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      I read TFA. None of the cases are to do with safe spaces. Also, all but one was nothing to do with students. They were about the administrations' actions.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't matter what the truth is, all SJWs are evil feminazis who are raping men and taking over twitter's free speech and ruining good old white america. #Trump2016

    9. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      My company has that stuff, i always find a way out of it.

      'Sorry gotta go, the server is down.".

      "I'm sorry, i cant make that training date, we have scheduled mainframe maintenance that day"

      "NO, im not doing that, i have actual real work to do."

      --
      Good-bye
    10. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      You have no right not to be offended.

      Shove your idea of "microagressions" right up your ass. So it can be near your brain.

      Microaggresions only makes sense when using the metric system. You have to do one million of them before it amounts to an act of aggression.

    11. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by bytesex · · Score: 1

      ?? One was about UC San Diego, who defunded a student paper because they had a satirical article criticizing safe spaces.

      --
      Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
    12. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      So it's not about safe spaces, it's about removing funding froma student magazine because of something it published.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is exactly what makes SJWs different from true progressives.

      They don't want you to understand, or sympathize with them, or learn. They to punish you and silence you for behaving in a way they don't like.

    14. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I don't think you were listening very closely... Microaggressions are nothing to do with criticism.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    15. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you live in America, you are wrong. As long as the Constitution says that you have freedom of speech, that is the law of the land. Doesn't matter if 100% of the population disagrees with that. It's also why the country is a republic; to help prevent the tyranny of the majority.

    16. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't like what you are saying so you should shut up.

      Tell me, who are the authoritarians here again?

    17. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it is bullshit, and the very concept micro aggresses me considering these thought policing turds are all brown shirts

    18. Re:Fuck you and your "safe space" by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      Microaggressions are nothing more than a tool used by the chronically offended to feel more offended. Also, it is completely made-up bullshit.

  3. Oppressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    'Oppressive' seems a bit over-the-top. Even TFA article doesn't use that word.

    Next up: "America's Most Genocidal Colleges"!

    1. Re:Oppressive by fustakrakich · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Next up: "America's Most Genocidal Colleges"!

      That would be The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation, formerly known as the US Army School of the Americas

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:Oppressive by penguinoid · · Score: 2

      If you want oppressive colleges, try the Electoral College.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    3. Re:Oppressive by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you want oppressive colleges, try the Electoral College.

      Actually, the Electoral College is a necessary equalizer for the states...without that, a very small number of states would perpetually run roughshod over the other states....and one of the conditions of becoming a state was that you'd get your equal representation on the federal level, and this is VERY important.

      Remember, you are a member of your state first....THEN you are a member of the United States.

      At least..that's how it was set up.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:Oppressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What word would you have used?

    5. Re:Oppressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want oppressive colleges, try the Electoral College.

      Actually, the Electoral College is a necessary equalizer for the states...without that, a very small number of states would perpetually run roughshod over the other states....and one of the conditions of becoming a state was that you'd get your equal representation on the federal level, and this is VERY important.

      Nope. Only in the Senate, They did, at least recognize how unfair it would be to have all states have an equal vote despite the wide disparities in population.

      Disparities that are worse now. California has almost 65 times the population of Wyoming. Unfortunately, due to Congress's failure to increase the size of the house, that means California is actually being run roughshod because it's missing 12 to 13 members of the House. Other states are in similar straights.

      Why is this allowed? Why are you fine with that oppression?

      That isn't even getting into the Winner-Take-All method used, and no, the Maine/Nebraska option isn't better, due to the gerrymandering of districts in too many states.

      Sorry, but the Electoral College is an abomination that should not be defended.

      Remember, you are a member of your state first....THEN you are a member of the United States.

      At least..that's how it was set up.

      No, it wasn't, you were always a citizen of the United States, and only fools thought they were a member of a state first and foremost. Such fools were also the ones who caused the worst war on American soil.

      I'm glad we're past that, mostly. People find it harder to justify a war against their own than against those they perceive as outsiders.

    6. Re: Oppressive by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      That's why the US has had a succession of superb leaders.

    7. Re:Oppressive by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

      Remember, you are a member of your state first....THEN you are a member of the United States.

      At least..that's how it was set up.

      This is very true, and it's something that's almost completely forgotten today. It's the reason why Charles Francis Adams -- grandson of President John Quincy Adams and great-grandson of President John Adams -- a man who led black Union troops in the Civil War, and a president of the American Historical Association, could argue in 1902 that Robert E. Lee should be given a statue in Washington, D.C.

      Why? Because Lee first-and-foremost saw himself as a Virginian, and he was literally defending his country in his "native state" of Virginia (a "patriot" in the sense of "patriotism" from the Latin patria referring to "fatherland") from Northern states invading potentially sovereign Southern ones. (I'm not agreeing with Adams's argument here, just noting what he says.)

      Nowadays we make fun of quaint Southerners who speak of the "War of Northern Aggression," and we seek to tear down vestigial confederate monuments. Perhaps we should, given that they have become largely symbolic of slavery alone for many people.

      But Charles Adams is an actual voice from the time of the Civil War and before -- a Northern voice, from someone who had supported the African-American cause. And his essay describes the radical transformation of views on the sovereignty of states that happened during and after the Civil War.

      Obviously we view things differently today, and for many people it's hard to understand such a perspective in today's politically divisive climate. But the individuality of states was central to the original conception of the United States.

    8. Re:Oppressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'Oppressive' seems a bit over-the-top. Even TFA article doesn't use that word.

      Next up: "America's Most Genocidal Colleges"!

      "America's Most Spermicidal Colleges!"

    9. Re:Oppressive by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

      Remember, you are a member of your state first....THEN you are a member of the United States.

      At least..that's how it was set up.

      No, it wasn't, you were always a citizen of the United States, and only fools thought they were a member of a state first and foremost. Such fools were also the ones who caused the worst war on American soil.

      They weren't "fools." That's the entire reason why it's called the "United STATES," rather than some new country with a single name. Before the Civil War, they were a collection of quasi-autonomous jurisdictions that agreed mainly to come together for the explicit purposes (and only those) emphasized in the Constitution.

      And you had these "fools" on both sides defying that federal government. One of the main complaints of the Southern States (read their Articles of Secession) was the failure of the Federal Government to enforce the Fugitive Slave Acts (which were explicitly part of those Constitutional powers required for the Federal Government). Many Northern States refused to adhere to the Constitution in this case, on the grounds that their individual statehood allowed them to refuse to be bound to immoral acts. After various states effectively nullified the 1793 Act -- thereby placing states' rights above Constitution -- Congress passed the 1850 Act, which many Northern states then defied.

      Of course we can argue in hindsight that the Northern states were morally correct to do so, but they did so because they believed their state sovereignty allowed them to violate a Constitutional mandate from the U.S. government. Thus, a few years later, when a Republican president was elected without a single vote in most Southern states, the South argued they too could refuse the authority of the federal government (which had failed them, when the Northern states refused to adhere to the Constitution).

      The Civil War was fought to resolve the open question of whether people were "members of a state first and foremost." It's only hindsight that allows you to think of everyone who disagreed before the war -- on both sides -- as "fools."

    10. Re:Oppressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the theory. Since I come from Rhode Island, which has an insignificant number of votes in the Electoral College and am used to having zero impact on presidential elections, I beg to differ.

    11. Re:Oppressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and the article itself is over the top.

      slashdot, you're tending sounding more like the Daily Mail.

    12. Re:Oppressive by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      ...could argue in 1902 that Robert E. Lee [archive.org] should be given a statue in Washington, D.C.

      Sadly, our long standing statue of Robert E. Lee in Lee Circle here in NOLA, is to soon be lost due to our jackass Mayor, who had to jump in and create a conflict where there was none previously....and successfully had the city council run roughshod over many historian fans in the city and now this relic and other statues NO ONE HAD A PROBLEM WITH previously, are to likely be taken down this summer.

      Just because there was a slavery issue in that time, surrounding them.

      I find it funny they stopped there...I mean, the statue of Andrew Jackson in Jackson square, isn't in jeopardy. Why aren't they razing the entire French Quarter? I mean, it was heavily involved intimately with slave traders.

      For that matter...why are we tolerating all the statues and tributes to Jefferson in DC? He was a well known slave owner and practician of the institution of slavery....

      Why the revisionist history?

      In our case, hell...they should have at least put it up to a vote for the state to decide....since they are historic monuments that belong to all of the citizens of the state of LA.

      But no..that wouldn't have scored Landrieu bankable political points.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    13. Re:Oppressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They weren't "fools." That's the entire reason why it's called the "United STATES," rather than some new country with a single name.

      That is a single name, the United States. I believe they borrowed the styling from the Dutch, but obviously it's impossible to prove without hearing from whoever came up with the idea, and that's in doubt. (the usage of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland coming a bit later.). Started with colonies, moved to states.

      America also applies, but that can be somewhat ambiguous.

      But no, I wouldn't determine that kind of thing from choice of name, but rather from the concept of citizenship.

      Before the Civil War, they were a collection of quasi-autonomous jurisdictions that agreed mainly to come together for the explicit purposes (and only those) emphasized in the Constitution.

      That's the story that a lot of fools told themselves, yes. They couldn't make that work under the Articles of Confederation either.

      And you had these "fools" on both sides defying that federal government. One of the main complaints of the Southern States (read their Articles of Secession) was the failure of the Federal Government to enforce the Fugitive Slave Acts (which were explicitly part of those Constitutional powers required for the Federal Government). Many Northern States refused to adhere to the Constitution in this case, on the grounds that their individual statehood allowed them to refuse to be bound to immoral acts. After various states effectively nullified the 1793 Act -- thereby placing states' rights above Constitution -- Congress passed the 1850 Act, which many Northern states then defied.

      And yet you don't mention the abduction of free blacks from the North to be put into bondage in the South. Or South Carolina's own nullification attempts with regards to the Tariffs of 1828 and 1832, you know, the one John C. Calhoun yammered on about?

      But yes, the Fugitive Slave Laws were the South's attempt to tell the Northern States what to do.

      A telling lesson that they so quickly switched their tune to state's rights on that score. Especially since Ableman v. Booth was decided in the favor of the Fugitive Slave Law.

      Of course we can argue in hindsight that the Northern states were morally correct to do so, but they did so because they believed their state sovereignty allowed them to violate a Constitutional mandate from the U.S. government.

      Nope, they did so because they recognized the moral imperative to oppose slavery. So they did. Not because of any beliefs about state sovereignty. Those, when used, were incidental to the opposition towards slavery. The primary focus was abolition, in the entirety. There was no room for compromise, sooner or later the question had to be decided. The only real question was the process of emancipation, some favoring immediate, some re-colonization, and so forth.

      Fortunately, most of them weren't fools enough to try armed force. John Brown being an exception. But he wasn't thinking about succession as far as I know.

      He stood alone though. It was the slave-holders who united together.

      And they settled the question of how emancipation would be enacted.

      Thus, a few years later, when a Republican president was elected without a single vote in most Southern states, the South argued they too could refuse the authority of the federal government (which had failed them, when the Northern states refused to adhere to the Constitution).

      There is no law that requires a president to have a vote from any given state, so that was no grounds for such action. Or any action. And they had their representation in Congress, and yet did not even have a law pushed against them before they chose the use of force.

      So they even gave up a pretense to support Federal Supremac

    14. Re: Oppressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly, your city, like many others had a monument to Colonel Lee, and no doubt numerous other Confederates. Perhaps it would have been better if Grant had given him a rope instead.

      Then there would be no doubt to the recognition that Lee, like many others chose to take up arms against his country and violate his sworn word. He was an officer in the United States Army. He even took a commission from Lincoln. Yet he chose to take up arms. And spared Virginia not at all.

      I can accept a memorial to the dead, but you should lament their loss in a cause that was centered around support for slavery, not allow yourself to pretend there was some nobility of purpose to it.

      Yet that latter is far too often what these statues of Confederates foster.

      Tell you what, as a compromise, we put a plaque next to each of these statues declaring their choice to rebel was wrong. And if you want, we can do the same for the wrong choices of Jefferson and Jackson. And Washington too. Especially how he got himself soaking wet, then kept his wet clothes on. Think about how many lives that might save if a warning was on every dollar bill!

    15. Re: Oppressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True story, I have heard suggestions that your whole city be bulldozed and abandoned in lieu of Katrina related aid.

      Is it too much to ask for a thank you note?

    16. Re:Oppressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell me something new. The great state of Mississippi complained about being ruined by other the states in its 1861 secession document. I just love the second paragraph but it is quite informative to read the entire document.

      "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin"

      (Even if you accept the dubious proposition that blacks are more suitable to working under tropical conditions, I don't see how not paying wages to free men is ruinous).

    17. Re:Oppressive by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      I'll make it easy for you. The 1793 and 1850 acts violated the 10th amendment. so you had the 10th at odds with Article IV, Section 2, Clause 3 which should have never been inserted. Thats why the civil war happened (and why it will happen again)

    18. Re: Oppressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sort of like George Washington took up arms against the lawful government of King George

    19. Re: Oppressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do believe that the government of Her Majesty has accepted the outcome of that particular War.

      But I understand that the Scots want their stone back.

    20. Re:Oppressive by cold+fjord · · Score: 0

      . . . and we seek to tear down vestigial confederate monuments. Perhaps we should, given that they have become largely symbolic of slavery alone for many people.

      There are few people seeking that, and it is just more politically correct cultural destruction. That is a problem with teachers and curriculum informed by the fringe Left politics in schools of education. They are also doing a great disservice to the Founders.

      The impulse to shout down speakers on campus and punish students for expressing disfavored views is little different.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    21. Re:Oppressive by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Well sure! To you it would be. Should I be surprised? You know a bigger one?

      activist crap

      That's a good one, has a nice ring to it... activist crap, yeah, I like it. Thanks, man!

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    22. Re:Oppressive by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Nice little brochure you got there.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    23. Re:Oppressive by cold+fjord · · Score: 0

      Both the 1960s and 1980s are long past.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    24. Re:Oppressive by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Your propaganda hasn't changed though

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    25. Re:Oppressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unlike how it is now, where tiny, insignificant states like Iowa and Ohio call all the shots. I want democracy, not your bullshit tyranny.

    26. Re:Oppressive by cold+fjord · · Score: 0

      And which "propaganda" is that?

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    27. Re:Oppressive by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      That little sales pitch you linked up there. Why do you ask? Are you not aware of the air you breathe?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    28. Re:Oppressive by cold+fjord · · Score: 0

      You indicated that it was "my" propaganda that "hasn't changed." The link goes to a course listing and part of a FAQ and a US military site for a school serving international students, not a "sales pitch." That doesn't really count as "mine," I don't "own" the US military, and I don't own those documents.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    29. Re:Oppressive by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Ah, nothing like sweet pedantry to finish off the charade...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    30. Re:Oppressive by cold+fjord · · Score: 0

      Ah, nothing like sweet pedantry to finish off the charade...

      Yes, I'm sure you find it disagreeable that I want to see some sort of actual connection between myself and things you ascribe to me.

      On the other hand that also means I can't claim that you enjoy "sweet pederasty" while finishing off the shiraz.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    31. Re:Oppressive by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      You serve the empire well.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    32. Re:Oppressive by cold+fjord · · Score: 0

      Vincit omnia veritas.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    33. Re:Oppressive by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Eventually it might, but here you are

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    34. Re:Oppressive by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Indeed.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    35. Re:Oppressive by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Proof that truth hasn't finished its conquering.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    36. Re:Oppressive by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Which is why I'll continue bringing facts, the truth, to these discussions despite the fact that many hate it, and in some cases can't identify it.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    37. Re:Oppressive by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      I'm no hater. As always, thanks for the laughs. You gotta million of them..

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    38. Re:Oppressive by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Likewise.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  4. In defense of Mount St. Mary's University by LichtSpektren · · Score: 1

    The president is a total imbecile and everybody regrets his ascension, but it's overall a fantastic university.

    1. Re:In defense of Mount St. Mary's University by Harry_Bawls · · Score: 2

      Your university is responsible for his 'ascension' so no, it's not a good university. They must have known what he was like when they gave him the job.

    2. Re:In defense of Mount St. Mary's University by LichtSpektren · · Score: 1

      Not my university, although I do work with some of the professors there from time to time. And no, the president is something of a two-faced politician that made certain promises he chose not to keep for his own benefit.

    3. Re: In defense of Mount St. Mary's University by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was a great university might have been appropriate.

    4. Re:In defense of Mount St. Mary's University by daemonhunter · · Score: 1

      We know what each of our American presidential candidates are like too, but we're still going to give one of them the job....

  5. All awful but the bias is interesting by JoshuaZ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So let's be clear: pretty much all of these situations are completely unacceptable, and most disturbingly they show a tendency for much of these sorts of problems to occur on the left, what essentially amounts to the "illiberal left" http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/01/liberals-and-the-illiberal-left/384988/. However, FIRE's own biases are coming into play in this list, in that every example they decide to include is on the left or has no political aspect. But there were a lot of rimilar activities with an apparently right-wing bent, such as the situation at Wheaton College https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/01/06/wheaton-illinois-moves-fire-professor-who-wore-hijab. It may be that FIRE's top list is still more of an issue for legitimate reasons because many of these universities are large, public universities and thus engaging in trampling on free speech is even more serious, but it does seem like FIRE's own biases may be having a role in what they've decided to highlight.

    However, the general upshot should be clear: trampling on free speech is not ok. And we should support free speech whether or not it is speech we agree with. Universities must be bastions of free expression for them to effectively do their jobs. And groups of all sorts should remember that even if they have power now to censor others, they may not always be the ones in power.

    1. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by redmid17 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So let's be clear: pretty much all of these situations are completely unacceptable, and most disturbingly they show a tendency for much of these sorts of problems to occur on the left, what essentially amounts to the "illiberal left" http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/01/liberals-and-the-illiberal-left/384988/. However, FIRE's own biases are coming into play in this list, in that every example they decide to include is on the left or has no political aspect. But there were a lot of rimilar activities with an apparently right-wing bent, such as the situation at Wheaton College https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/01/06/wheaton-illinois-moves-fire-professor-who-wore-hijab. It may be that FIRE's top list is still more of an issue for legitimate reasons because many of these universities are large, public universities and thus engaging in trampling on free speech is even more serious, but it does seem like FIRE's own biases may be having a role in what they've decided to highlight.

      However, the general upshot should be clear: trampling on free speech is not ok. And we should support free speech whether or not it is speech we agree with. Universities must be bastions of free expression for them to effectively do their jobs. And groups of all sorts should remember that even if they have power now to censor others, they may not always be the ones in power.

      So to be clear, private colleges (not all) *can* and do stifle free speech and are exempt from many parts of Title XIV or free speech restrictions. Thus concentrating on a private school is pretty dopey. Granted if they accept federal funds in any capacity they have to adhere to some part (not that I know them offhand).

      When a publicly funded institution violates constitutional laws, it is a much bigger deal as they are AGENTS OF THE STATE. FIRE concentrating on large public institutions makes perfect sense because it affects far more people than private institutions and they shouldn't even be *thinking* of doing stuff like this, yet do anyway.

    2. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      So where were you during the old regime of Slashdot's "SJW Fridays" pointing out bias? Or is it not a problem when it's your side doing it?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    3. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Zeromous · · Score: 1

      I didn't realize the government were the ones setting up safe spaces to suppress free speech.

      We should be arguing that there is no such constitutional right to go un-offended, but talking about free speech in this context is a red herring.

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
    4. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      ...So to be clear, private colleges (not all) *can* and do stifle free speech and are exempt from many parts of Title XIV or free speech restrictions... FIRE concentrating on large public institutions makes perfect sense because it affects far more people than private institutions and they shouldn't even be *thinking* of doing stuff like this, yet do anyway.

      The top school in the list is a private school, so that's simply not the case.

      He didn't say they concentrated exclusively on public institutions. He said that they concentrated on public institutions because they could not implement "speech" restrictions in the way that private institutions could.

      While Mount St. Mary's is a private, Catholic institution, it makes promises of free speech and academic freedom to its community that it is morally and legally obligated to uphold -- promises it broke in firing the faculty members.

      If you, as a private institution, chose to make a contractual commitment to free speech, then yes, someone like a faculty member who is party to that contract can go after you for violating free speech. And other entities can lend support to those people and/or criticize hypocrisy.

      If you don't make such a commitment, you are far more insulated from legal action than any public institution.

      So yes, "it" basically is the case.

    5. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However, FIRE's own biases are coming into play in this list, in that every example they decide to include is on the left or has no political aspect. But there were a lot of rimilar activities with an apparently right-wing bent,

      While I won't disagree with the bias perhaps it is mostly because of the near ideological monopoly the left has on academia. It's no secret that academia is made up of mostly left-wing ideology.

    6. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      FIRE is indeed concerned with government violations of the First Amendment. What private universities do, however assholey, is not a battle they chose to fight as no First Amendment government infraction is occuring.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    7. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > So to be clear, private colleges (not all) *can* and do stifle free speech and are exempt from many parts of Title XIV or free speech restrictions.

      This isnt about constitutional requirements, it is about principles. Trying to make it about Title XIV is just side-stepping the concept of freedom of speech in an educational setting. Unless, of course, your belief is that freedom of speech is not a fundamental part of an educational setting. But then you've already seceded the moral high ground.

    8. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by dizzy8578 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Art Pope is a Theo-fascist shill for the Koch brothers Free speech should be rigorously upheld in the Academic world, but the Pope foundation and FIRE only gets involved when right wing religion, racist speech or climate change denial is threatened. Boatload of crap is the bulk of the article

      --
      *"Cogito Ergo Liberalis"*
    9. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Theaetetus · · Score: 2

      So let's be clear: pretty much all of these situations are completely unacceptable, and most disturbingly they show a tendency for much of these sorts of problems to occur on the left, what essentially amounts to the "illiberal left" http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/01/liberals-and-the-illiberal-left/384988/.

      Are they, though? I haven't checked them all, but their number 2 spot regarding Northwestern University and Professor Laura Kipnis actually involves allegations of defamation and retaliation by the professor against a sexual assault victim. Free speech has never included a right to publish libel.

    10. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      So let's be clear: pretty much all of these situations are completely unacceptable, and most disturbingly they show a tendency for much of these sorts of problems to occur on the left, what essentially amounts to the "illiberal left" http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/01/liberals-and-the-illiberal-left/384988/.

      Number 4 involves a student government cutting funding to a student paper. Free speech has never required that others provide you with free money to support your publication.

    11. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So, when you can't attack the facts attack the source? Seriously, they reported 10 incidents that are troubling if not entirely disturbing, is their report on the incidents 'correct' (factual) or not? The source is of no consequence. A 'left-wing nutjob group' (feminists are good at this) could be reporting similar things about 'right wing restriction of freedom of speech', provided the reports were factual what do I care...free speech is at issue here not the political aspects of it...you should be appalled at the actions not the source.

    12. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by operagost · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the genetic fallacy, but no thanks.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    13. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by FlaSheridn · · Score: 1

      > an apparently right-wing bent, such as the situation at Wheaton College

      The article you cite says that the dispute isn’t political but theological, about a disagreement in doctrine between the avowedly religious college and a public theological claim by the professor. (I will emphatically stay out of the details of the theology.) FIRE may well get some support from those on the political right, but the author of the original article (the head of the organization) “has described himself as a "pro-choice liberal"” per Wikipedia.

    14. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wheaton is a private religious college.

    15. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Notice FIRE did not describe the activity as "criminal". They describe it as suppressing free speech. And that's exactly what happened - a newspaper was critical of those in power, and was punished by being silenced as a result.

    16. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by redmid17 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      FIRE does take a lot of those cases, but yeah your post is pretty ignorant and downright incorrect. Let me list a few: 1) Defending a self-described socialist - http://web.archive.org/web/200...
      2) Student suspended for reading a book from school library on the downfall of hte KKK - http://www.thefire.org/article...
      3) Defending a student who'd been unilaterally expelled over a joke - http://chronicle.com/article/F...
      4) Defending an atheist college professor - http://insidehighered.com/news...
      5) Calling out Depaul for not recognizing a pro-marijauna group - http://thefire.org/article/123...
      6) FIRE calls out university for denying an LGBT group school recognition - https://www.thefire.org/fire-l...

      I can go on if you want. Lots of these cases do seem skewed toward benefitting white males, but if you look at the actual cases well you'd see why. Lots of the decisions they draw FIRE's ire are fucking stupid, short-sighted, and somehow scraped their way out of a poorly run administration meeting.

    17. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's no secret that academia is made up of mostly left-wing ideology.

      That's because the smarter you are and the more education you have the easier it is to see through the idiotic nonsense espoused by the right.

    18. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Shane_Optima · · Score: 1

      He said that they concentrated on public institutions because they could not implement "speech" restrictions in the way that private institutions could.

      Well, he's wrong (or a bunch of Wikipedia editors are wrong) because it looks like 7 out of 10 of the colleges the article lists are private.

    19. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Shane_Optima · · Score: 1

      FIRE concentrating on large public institutions makes perfect sense

      Except they didn't. The majority of universities listed are private.

    20. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Frobnicator · · Score: 3, Informative

      It may be that FIRE's top list is still more of an issue for legitimate reasons because many of these universities are large, public universities and thus engaging in trampling on free speech is even more serious, but it does seem like FIRE's own biases may be having a role in what they've decided to highlight.

      I don't know if it is a bias for many of them. Quite a few are bad all by themselves without a liberal or conservative bias. I thought this one was beautifully told: Following a spate of “Black Lives Matter” protests, the student newspaper published a column that took issue with some of the BLM rhetoric, arguing that it encouraged violence. Angry BLM supporters quickly circulated a petition demanding that the university defund the paper unless their demands were met, including mandatory “social justice/diversity” training for the paper’s editors and guaranteed space in the paper for articles representing “marginalized groups and voices.” The protesters also threatened to steal and destroy copies of the paper unless their demands were met.

      TL;DR for that:

      The school paper says "These groups are violent." and the groups reply "Take that back or we'll destroy your stuff!" The university leaders give in to the violent protester demands, squelching the school's newspaper.

      --
      //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
    21. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by redmid17 · · Score: 1

      Surely you can differentiate between a list of Top 10 worst colleges and where they spend most of their time and effort right?

      Surely you can do that much.

    22. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by sjames · · Score: 1

      To be more clear, stifling free speech is anathema to any decent collegiate environment. In some cases it may also be illegal.

    23. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I don't care as much about the legalities here. I'm interested in academic freedom and free speech, and I don't recognize a moral line corresponding to the legal line. An institution calling itself a college or university should uphold these things, whether or not they can be legally compelled to do so.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    24. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Shane_Optima · · Score: 1

      I would say that their published results are much more important in judging their efforts and motives than whatever they claimed to be primarily focusing on. That said, I don't necessarily agree that they are being terribly biased here. And I just did a quick skim and I don't even see where in this article they were claiming to be focused mainly on public institutions. My point here is primarily against the people who are inexplicably trying to shut down discussion about other private universities.

    25. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And we should support free speech whether or not it is speech we agree with.

      Why? This racist speech is oppressive. What is the purpose of free speech but not to liberate? How can it do that AND oppress? And why should we let it?

      It isn't what our founding fathers intended when they wrote the amendment. They weren't concerned that their ancestors could be racist pieces of shit for all time it was about being able to speak out against those in power. Like what they needed to do to topple their old government.

      But PoC aren't those in power. And this speech erodes the very idea that it purports to uphold, liberation.

    26. Re:All awful but the bias is interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is the purpose of free speech but not to liberate? How can it do that AND oppress? And why should we let it?

      The purpose of free speech is to let you say what you think - whether I like it or not. And vice-versa.

      As soon as you start judging some speech as "oppressive" or trying to determine what the purpose should be, you are on a dangerous slippery slope to censorship and real oppression, i.e. punishing people for saying what they think.

      The remedy for racist or "hate" speech is more speech.

      Incidentally, Slashdot told me to "slow down cowboy" because evidently I'm saying what I think too MUCH. Fuck you, Slashdot.

  6. I guess "oppressive" is relative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    In some senses, Americas most oppressive colleges are the ones that don't try to curb sexist and racist speech at all.

    A lot depends on if you're a black woman or a middle-class white male.

    I can guess which side most of the middle-class white males here will fall.

    1. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      I can guess which side most of the middle-class white males here will fall.

      It's worse than that: Technocrat middle class white males, the persecuted minority within a persecuted minority.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    2. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone knows racism, sexism, etc don't count against straight white cis males.

    3. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Technocrat middle class white males, the persecuted minority within a persecuted minority.

      Only if you work at Cisco and don't like vegan pizza.

    4. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Everyone knows racism, sexism, etc don't count against straight white cis males.

      Unless you're the only white guy in a black social studies or women lit class. Then you bear the responsibility for 400+ years of racism (American slavery) and 6,000+ years of sexism (Adam's rib). Fortunately, my instructors protected me from being lynched or castrated by my fellow classmates.

    5. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      Only if you work at Cisco and don't like vegan pizza.

      That's like the perfect euphemism for a slashdotter. I might steal that in the future.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    6. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      6,000+ years of sexism

      That's just bullshit. We had matriarchal societies as recently as 1500 years ago, you don't have to carry the other 4500 years.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    7. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It must be really tough being a victim for 3 hours a week.

    8. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      It must be really tough being a victim for 3 hours a week.

      It was six hours a week. I took black social studies and women lit in the same semester. But I wasn't playing the victim game; I only accepted the burden of being a white male.

    9. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      We had matriarchal societies as recently as 1500 years ago, you don't have to carry the other 4500 years.

      Unless you're a Christian and follow the Bible, then you're responsible for Eve coming from Adam's rib.

    10. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Authorizing government to silence certain opinions hasn't worked out too well for blacks or women.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    11. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      Hey, if you want to play in a fantasy league even if you don't have to, that's fine by me.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    12. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a white 'privileged' middle class male I don't give a fuck what 'hate' speech platforms they allow at colleges left wing, right wing, anti black, anti white, anti Jewish , anti capitalist, Fascist, white supremacy the whole gauntlet of micro aggression's and triggers.

      I do however care if the student pays a vast fortune to attend said institution and leaves dumb enough to believe any or all of the above shit.

    13. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Hey, if you want to play in a fantasy league even if you don't have to, that's fine by me.

      Tell that to the men-hating feminists.

    14. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by KGIII · · Score: 2

      I really don't like vegan pizza. Vegans aren't really all that tasty unless you dip 'em in bacon grease first.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    15. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by operagost · · Score: 1

      It must be really tough being a victim for 3 hours a week.

      Yeah, that's what I told the woman I keep chained in my basement. Seems she still hasn't bought into my claim that she's accountable for all my ex-girlfriends who dumped me.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    16. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      bacon grease

      Fun fact: Want to break a vegetarian or vegan? Use bacon, it will give you the greatest chance of success.

      Source: every single non-meat eater I've ever met.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    17. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by operagost · · Score: 1

      That would require them accepting the legitimacy of the Christian religion. MY HEAD ASPLODE

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    18. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I took a class in womens studies. To 'round out' my education... I was too heavily into the science/technology area for advisors tastes...
      White male who rode a motorcycle. Taking Math/Science/Engineering classes...

      It seemed in the'discussion' meeting, I was supposed to listen, and take personally, every grievance against my race, sex, and choice of study.
      When asked how I was to make up for my transgressions, I asked who there had been offended by something I had done rather than my race, sex or field of study.
      They replied that my existence was enough..... well, I passed. And did learn a few things.
      But not what they wanted me to learn.
      I learned that ANY group with an agenda is a cunning, rat-minded, amoral predator looking for prey,
      resistant ot learning, alternate points of view and rabid.
      Went on to get a PhD, do star wars research, and teach...marry, kid, house, cat, 14 computers, body painting, .....
      And still laugh about them. Giggle sometimes, too.

    19. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you just had a very uncharitable preconception of your classmates' inclinations.

    20. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Maybe you just had a very uncharitable preconception of your classmates' inclinations.

      Not when the instructor had to physically intervene.

    21. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      They replied that my existence was enough.....

      A married woman explained that she enjoyed the sex and loved the children, but she didn't really need her husband beyond that. The husband is supporting the family and putting her through college. Yet she doesn't need him. What's wrong with this picture?

    22. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      huh. I had a very different experience as the only male in a women's lit class: I've been married to the grad student (I was an older student) teaching the class for 20 years. She's been great; still quite feminist but recognizing over the years that we have different talents and thereby fill different roles in raising our family. The class itself focused on the literature and (some) empowerment rather than placing blame. Your advisor sucked, by the way. The only reason I took a women's lit class is that it was the only section open.

    23. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      I spent 13 years going to the Detroit Public Schools, and I have to say the bullshit that comes with being the only white guy in the room is several orders of magnitude less then the bullshit that comes with being the only black guy in the room.

      You can get that kind of reaction as the only white guy in the room, but generally to accomplish it you have to really try. For example, if you claim black history month is bullshit because there's no white history month, and maintain it even after you've been unable to name a single damn thing that would be mentioned in white history month (and isn't on the history curriculum normally), you're gonna piss people off.

      OTOH, if you're the only black guy in the room, and even dare to make the point that white history month is silly because it is 100% things that fit perfectly well in any American History course; and there's two white guys in the room who have convinced themselves by deductive reasoning that opposing White History Month is by definition racist (practicality of actually doing such a thing be damned!) you're gonna have a really bad day, get a reputation as a racial whiner, and it would probably be a not-bad idea to switch companies before that particular reputation turns everyone against you.

    24. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      You can get that kind of reaction as the only white guy in the room, but generally to accomplish it you have to really try.

      I wasn't provoking anyone. I spoke only when the community college instructor pointed to me. My presence was enough provocation for these hotheads who wanted to blame someone else for where they were at in society.

    25. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      And what did you say when you spoke?

      Because I've been in a lot more classes with black people then you, I've generally been one of two or three white people in the room, and I've never seen anyone get anywhere near the reaction you're talking about. I can see how it could happen, but only if the person in question's got a hell of a lor of both attitude and respect issues.

    26. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      And what did you say when you spoke?

      For the most part, the appropriate answer that the teacher wanted. This was just another class I was required to take as part of my general education.

      Because I've been in a lot more classes with black people then you, I've generally been one of two or three white people in the room, and I've never seen anyone get anywhere near the reaction you're talking about.

      This was 25 years ago. Some of the younger black students were more hellbent on arguing with the instructor, who walked with Martin Luther King during the civil rights movement. Those arguments took up a lot of class time.

    27. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      You got a really weird class man.

      K-12, in literally every class I took, it was 90-95% black. My white classmates are literally numbered on the fingers of one hand (April, Jessica, Kyle, the Wojchenski twins, and that's it). I had no problems like you describe.

    28. Re:I guess "oppressive" is relative by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      "Unless you're a Christian and follow the Bible, then you're responsible for Eve coming from Adam's rib. "

      Um, God did that... Christians just accept it.

      It's not that hard to get Christian theology right. . Lots of sources.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  7. Consider the Source by PvtVoid · · Score: 4, Informative

    The John William Pope Center is a mouthpiece for a right-wing think tank, and is no friend of higher education.

    That having been said, some of the incidents described are pretty egregious. But then university administrators have been cowardly autocrats since universities began.

    1. Re:Consider the Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >cowardly autocrats

      Kind of an oxymoron, don't you think?

    2. Re:Consider the Source by PvtVoid · · Score: 1

      >cowardly autocrats

      Kind of an oxymoron, don't you think?

      You obviously haven't spent much time dealing with university administrators.

    3. Re:Consider the Source by Infiniti2000 · · Score: 2

      It is not an oxymoron. Someone with absolute power need not be a coward, but the administrators (in these examples) are proven cowards because they choose to stifle free speech rather than argue for it, however distasteful the free speech may be.

    4. Re:Consider the Source by Coisiche · · Score: 1

      Oh, so it's cherry picked examples to inflame those on the right and make them froth at the mouth and also worry those who could be coerced onto being more right-leaning.

      The John William Pope Center sounds like a training ground for Daily Mail journalists.

    5. Re:Consider the Source by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      But then university administrators have been cowardly autocrats since universities began.

      Cowardice is the wrong word. - Count de Monet

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    6. Re:Consider the Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really. For instance, Bashar al Assad is afraid of his own mom.

    7. Re:Consider the Source by ChrisMaple · · Score: 3, Funny

      university administrators have been cowardly autocrats since universities began

      You're calling Thomas Jefferson a cowardly autocrat.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    8. Re:Consider the Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What does the 'source' matter? All 10 incidents identified are on their face objectionable. If you have a problem with the facts attack the facts, the source is of no consequence. And blaming this on 'autocratic administrators' is laughable...it is the students and their expectation that they are being 'oppressed' any time someone that thinks different than themselves opens their mouth.

    9. Re:Consider the Source by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Then it is a welcome respite from the steady drumbeat of biased left-wing news on this site. It's about time we got some equality around here.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    10. Re:Consider the Source by Tailhook · · Score: 1

      "He may be right, but I've been trained to hate him, so movealongnothingtoseehere"

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    11. Re:Consider the Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, Universities didn't exist until the USA created them, unless you count piddly institutions like Oxford University being around for a mere 900 years.

    12. Re:Consider the Source by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      "Cowardy autocrat" is one of the kinder ways you can describe Thomas Jefferson. There's also spendthrift, hypocrite, and rapist.

    13. Re:Consider the Source by operagost · · Score: 2

      The John William Pope Center is a mouthpiece for a right-wing think tank, and is no friend of higher education.

      Ooh, another genetic fallacy.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    14. Re:Consider the Source by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

      You're calling Thomas Jefferson a cowardly autocrat.

      ...when you should be calling him the consummate hypocrite.

    15. Re:Consider the Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You knew him personally? What else was he like? Oh...I see...you don't know him. You have no idea what you are talking about and are just parroting nonsense.

    16. Re:Consider the Source by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      The John William Pope Center is a mouthpiece for a right-wing think tank, and is no friend of higher education.

      I know George Leef. The John William Pope Center may be right wing, but he's a libertarian, and greatly concerned with civil liberties.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    17. Re:Consider the Source by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      The John William Pope Center is a mouthpiece for a right-wing think tank, and is no friend of higher education.

      That having been said, some of the incidents described are pretty egregious. But then university administrators have been cowardly autocrats since universities began.

      No they haven't. Universities have historically been strongholds of free speech. In many countries during the middle age universities had special laws that allowed them freedom of speech eventhough no one outside the university had it.

      Now, they are more business and less higher learning, and as most businesses are, they are more worried about their public image and earnings than their principles.

    18. Re:Consider the Source by PvtVoid · · Score: 1

      You knew him personally? What else was he like? Oh...I see...you don't know him. You have no idea what you are talking about and are just parroting nonsense.

      Well, Jefferson was pretty certainly a rapist.

    19. Re:Consider the Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You knew him personally? What else was he like? Oh...I see...you don't know him. You have no idea what you are talking about and are just parroting nonsense.

      Well, Jefferson was pretty certainly a rapist.

      Wrong. The relationship with Sally Hemings started in France, during the years Jefferson lived there as ambassador. She was not a slave there, but rather a paid servant, and was under no obligation to return with Jefferson back to the USA. He promised her a life of luxury, and that any children would be freed, both of which happened.

    20. Re:Consider the Source by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Conflicted much?

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  8. Never thought I would see PC in red state schools by NotDrWho · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I expected this SJW shit at Berkley. But now it's poisoning even public state colleges in red states. Scary shit.

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
  9. Re:Not really by chispito · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Religious universities have doctrinal statements you sign when you enroll. If that offends you, don't go there.

    --
    The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
  10. Re:Never thought I would see PC in red state schoo by belthize · · Score: 0

    Some folks sure do scare easy. Most of these could be qualified as 'spats'.

    I'm 100% for free speech, I'd much rather people come right out and say what's on their minds. And I'd never dream of suggesting you may not call these examples oppressive or scary but I'll definitely call you silly if you do so.

  11. Oppressive More Like Regressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I always assumed all higher education facilities oppressed...my pockets! But seriously, the report only lists one example and screams bloody murder that the colleges squash some dumb rhetoric or comment the idiots make to prevent this SJW future the perceive will ruin or pussify the country. That second link only provides are slanted summary of list. Scary future indeed, a future of morons that regurgitate questionable ideas as truth.

  12. Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by ErichTheRed · · Score: 0, Interesting

    I'm 40, so way out of college, but mainstream media targeted at us old folks loves to hype up the "soft squishy hypersensitive Milennial" meme. It's presented in the form of "look at these damn kids, they can't handle the real world, and everyone should be able to say whatever they want to each other without any consequences."

    I have the opposite view -- I feel there needs to be some sort of consequences for inflammatory speech. Look at how awful political discourse is now, on both the left and the right. Everyone is hyper-focused on their opinions, partially because social media and targeted advertising continuously reinforces it. I really don't want a country of 300 million angry loudmouth Donald Trump clones walking around. People should be sensitive to others' feelings and opinions. Even tenured professors need to operate within an authority structure, as do most of us. Anyone who has worked for a large corporation with crappy office politics knows that you don't get far by shooting your mouth off at every turn.

    1. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're mostly right. Most of these jackoffs complaining about being censored or oppressed are just are really just complaining about not being able to say whatever comes to mind and suffering zero criticism for it.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    2. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by slashping · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I feel there needs to be some sort of consequences for inflammatory speech.

      One of the problems is the definition of "inflammatory". Another problem is that some people are just way too sensitive.

    3. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you don't like free speech, then why don't you go to any one of the number of countries where it doesn't exist?

      I am a millennial, born in 1987, and let me tell you, the stereotype is true. Most of my generation are soft, squishy, and hypersensitive. Those are the best definitions I've ever heard, and I thank you for them. Most of my people CAN'T handle the real world. And people who use the term "inflammatory speech" are the soft, squishy types who can't handle the real world.

      If someone says something you don't like, YOU IGNORE THEM. Ignoring the blowhards is the easiest way to get them to stop. You don't fight with them, it just causes them to double down on their opinions. And remember, just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them wrong. You sound EXACTLY like one of these millennial pukes of my generation who are the special snowflakes who can't handle ANY kind of criticism or ANY kind of opinions that fall outside of or make them question their worldview. The fact that you invoke Donald Trump just proves my point.

      I want a country of 300 million people, all speaking their minds, and all understanding that not everyone will agree with them at every turn. The fact that Donald Trump (since you brought him up) has so many supporters just tells me that there is a large swath of the population that is disenfranchised, and that contrary to popular belief, they seem to fall across all racial, demographics, and educational boundaries. People who are taxpaying members of society just like you and me who deserve to have their voice heard. Whether or not I agree with them. But you would have them silenced, because their opinions aren't the correct ones. They aren't "falling in line" with what YOU think is right. That's not freedom. Period.

      You see, that's the beauty of a free society, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about you. You don't have to "fall in" with the party line. You can stand up and give the finger to whoever you want, and you AREN'T PUNISHED FOR DOING SO. Punishing people for speech, as you are advocating, is dangerous and tyrannical. And I don't understand why people just don't get it. Freedom is the best thing to ever happen, and the soft squishy types like yourself only seem to want to put it back in the bottle. It makes me sick.

    4. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree -- in the OU incident Boren justified his swift action on the basis of protecting the larger student body from a threatening environment. The speed of his response was important to avoid being another example of an institution mired in bureaucratic indecision and indifference. Also - the overall impact on the institution's reputation needs to be considered -- a few individuals spouting hate speech can inflict significant damage if the institution appears to tolerate it or have a due process so slow and dull that result is the same.

    5. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Hate speech"-- now there's a term that shouldn't exist in a free country.

    6. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by ErichTheRed · · Score: 1

      " Punishing people for speech, as you are advocating, is dangerous and tyrannical. And I don't understand why people just don't get it. Freedom is the best thing to ever happen, and the soft squishy types like yourself only seem to want to put it back in the bottle. It makes me sick."

      I'm not advocating punishing free speech. I am advocating not espousing the belief that angry, harassing, hate-inciting speech is the preferred method of discourse. Two examples:
      - How would you like it if everyone, in every interaction, acted like the "racist uncle" or "sexist grandpa" or "angry conservative father" or "hippie pinko liberal commie sister" that lots of people have in their own families? And did so because society encourages it on the basis of..."Murica! Free speech! Woohoo!!!"?
      - Sexual harassment. Really, how hard is it to act professional in a workplace and refrain from speech or actions that someone might find harassing? It's always funny listening to large corporates' CYA harassment presentations, but there's a reason they exist. Because at some point, some ex-fratboy salesman or executive felt they were empowered to say whatever they wanted, no matter how offensive.

      All I'm saying is that shouting each other down isn't a way to solve problems long-term, and encouraging everyone to act like that, as some of us do now, isn't a good idea.

    7. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Triklyn · · Score: 2

      the problem for me is where does freedom of speech end and freedom of association begin.

      we've got digital lynch mobs effectively punishing individuals for political views. brendan eich.

      it's troubling, i don't want anyone to suffer for sharing their political views, in any context. That way lies madness. but again, freedom of association means that they're all well within their rights as individuals to force the man out of his job.

    8. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. People who run their mouths off and spew racist garbage are in for a world of hurt if they think that a university prohibiting a klan meeting is the end of the world. Employers don't have to tolerate hate speech, or a person who can't shut their mouth for ten minutes without turning the conversation towards politics, so what do they think will try to happen when they try and get a job?

      You think that getting expelled from a fraternity for leading a racist chant is bad? Wait until you're pumping gas or flipping burgers for the next ten years because no professional employer will hire you.

    9. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You're mostly right. Most of these jackoffs complaining about being censored or oppressed are just are really just complaining about not being able to say whatever comes to mind and suffering zero criticism for it.

      These people are not being criticised, they are being expelled or fired. People can say whatever comes to their minds and people can criticise them for it, but they can not retaliate against them what would be in violation of the law.

    10. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 0

      expelled

      Code of conduct that was known to all before enrollment not followed. Sucks to be you.

      fired

      Contract which was agreed to by both parties being enforced. Sucks to be you.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    11. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      look at these damn kids, they can't handle the real world, and everyone should be able to say whatever they want to each other without any consequences.

      Tolerance of others legally and socially is a requirement for any free society to function.

      I have the opposite view -- I feel there needs to be some sort of consequences for inflammatory speech.

      What did you have in mind?

      Look at how awful political discourse is now, on both the left and the right. Everyone is hyper-focused on their opinions, partially because social media and targeted advertising continuously reinforces it. I really don't want a country of 300 million angry loudmouth Donald Trump clones walking around.

      Why should anyone care about what YOU want?

      People should be sensitive to others' feelings and opinions.

      People should give me a million dollars.

      Even tenured professors need to operate within an authority structure, as do most of us. Anyone who has worked for a large corporation with crappy office politics knows that you don't get far by shooting your mouth off at every turn.

      SJW crowd preach at the righteous church of tolerance and respect except of course when they disagree. Then any faÃade of respect melts away to reveal the same weak confused hapless souls as all the oppressors who have lived before them.

    12. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by myowntrueself · · Score: 2

      "Hate speech"-- now there's a term that shouldn't exist in a free country.

      Indeed. Look at Thailand and disrespectful speech about the monarchy. Same kind of thing.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    13. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well I'm 52 & 'self aware' so I fully accept that reading media reports can bias my view of things (having been out of University for many years)...as such its lucky maybe that I have nieces, nephews & even friends who are young enough to be 'in the mix of things' so to speak...its NOT just a 'meme', at least I'm told that the incidents reported aren't being 'overblown' (though maybe 'over reported'). You can point easily at any number of incidents of speech being censured...seriously 'safe spaces', 'trigger words', 'micro-aggressions' & my favourite 'cisgendered'...these terms don't get invented because there is no one actively promoting their use & in doing so actively promoting that 'your use of speech is wrong'...these terms are invented specifically to deny you the ability to express yourself in a way that is open & honest...it is simply flat our wrong to debate someone using THEIR terms but if you don't use their terms your 'racist, sexist, misogynistic' what have you...

      I don't know anyone who truly believes in free speech that would suggest that 'you can say whatever you want without consequence', even the Pope has suggested that if a friend of his disparages his sister he might 'give him a good pop in the mouth' (not an exact quote)...now, I'm not sure that speech deserves to be escalated to violence & I'm pretty sure the Pope was joking but 'consequences' of using speech should not involve being fired, dismissed, having your academic career derailed etc. (the world being what it is, my comments are 'broad', there can certainly be examples where your speech can or should lead to concrete consequences such as I listed...e.g. a Catholic priest actively promoting Islam should likely be fired as he isn't doing his job...this is as opposed to saying for instance 'as Catholics we need to get along with Muslims')..

    14. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      Exactly. People who run their mouths off and spew racist garbage are in for a world of hurt if they think that a university prohibiting a klan meeting is the end of the world.

      Prohibiting speech just because you don't like or agree with it is the end of the world. It is the end of the free world.

      Employers don't have to tolerate hate speech, or a person who can't shut their mouth for ten minutes without turning the conversation towards politics, so what do they think will try to happen when they try and get a job?

      Students attending college are customers not employers or employees.

      Wait until you're pumping gas or flipping burgers for the next ten years because no professional employer will hire you.

      Wait until no employer will hire you because your a little pussy. They sure as hell are not going to want the liability or disruption that comes with someone constantly searching for innovative new ways to be an offended a victim rather than doing their jobs.

    15. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      has so many supporters just tells me that there is a large swath of the population that is disenfranchised

      You hit the nail on the head there. I have been watching the damage both parties have wrought upon the south. The democrats abandoned them and now sit in their cities jeering at them as if they are so backwards they couldnt light a match if shown how. Then watching the 1%rs of this area play the republicans like a fiddle pretending to be republicans. Make no mistake Trump is one of them (being a former democrat cheerleader).

      I have watched as two different Democrat presidents dismantled three of the largest industries in the country that were in the south (all in the past 25 years). Then put nothing in place to help those people out. I have watched large towns reduced to crime ridden havens full of pills, meth, and heroin because there are no jobs.

      This division goes back a long way. In the south they actually believe that the civil war was not about slavery. Even before, during and well after. It was about 'stop telling me what to do'. Right or wrong with whatever they were doing. It was/is about that to them; to tell them different makes you a liar. All they see is washington swooping in with their proclamations and destroying over and over their lifestyle. Then scratch their heads when the cheerleaders swoop in and pat them on the head and say 'oh but its good for you now shut your mouth about it'. You tell that to a meth addict mother who will not ever have the opportunity to let her kid drown in 50k of debt in college. As he is getting his 2nd sleeve tattoo finished up at his part time job at mcdonalds. Because Mr President decided to sell carbon subsidies to some other country and basically put the only real job he was qualified for 500 miles in any direction out of business.

      Trump is winning these people over because he is saying what they are thinking. He is the only one saying he is willing to stand up for them at all. He resonates with them because he does not care about PC. Much like the Tea party before him (before they went wildly off the rails).

      Trump actually *has* a good chance of winning because of what you call 'soft, squishy types'. They are the ones who enabled this whole mess and they do not see it. They are incapable of seeing it. Someone at some point blew smoke up their asses and made them think only their opinion matters. Everyone else better shut up and stand back. In the south we usually hold their beer first and let them make an ass of themselves and put them up on youtube. Darwin and shame takes care of the rest.

      I am standing back and looking on in amazement as Trump plays both sides. I agree with Scott Adams. He is a master of persuasion. He is so good at making you look past the sale you do not even realize it. Even his comment of 'I love the poorly educated' was a brilliant move. Anyone else had said it would nuke their political hopes from orbit. He selects people into his group that others have cast out as 'to dumb to be a democrat'. It once again gets the media talking about him and galvanizes more 'smart democrats' to talk nothing but about him. Meanwhile he is planning past the sale as the democrats are so focused on him they are not minding their own backyard. He is going to have a field day with their candidates.

    16. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by KGIII · · Score: 2

      You ever get the urge to go trolling in real life? 'Cause, I have that urge now.

      I'd like to sign up for a university, I'm sure I'll get accepted. Then, I'd like to say some of the most outlandish things - each time ensuring to not actually break the rules. I imagine I could have some fun with it. See, I'm mixed racially... Part of that mix is Black African. "Oh no, I don't dislike all black people, I just dislike black women." My other races are Amerindian and Honky. I wonder if I can get away with saying phrases like, "Mohawk scalping, spear chucking, redneck."

      I suppose they could then kick me out and I could sue 'em - except I don't want their money. No, I think I'd sue for a public apology from everyone involved - and make them call me a "Mohawk scalping, spear chucking, redneck" right in their apology. And publish it in all the school papers and the local papers - and maybe on television. While calling me a Mohawk scalping, spear chucking, redneck. In fact, they can call me Mr. Mohawk scalping, spear chucking, redneck if they want.

      Yes, I hate idiots and ignorant people to and I do wish they'd shut up. However, I wish they'd shut up of their own volition and not because of force. Yes, I just wish they'd learn something and how to express their ideas without being offensive. The important part is that I want them to learn. I don't want the government, or agencies funded by the government, preventing speech.

      It's really bothersome that there are people who will stand by each and every one of these actions. There are people who don't actually value their liberties. It disheartening as they appear to be growing in number and they come from all ends of the political spectrum.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    17. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by ThosLives · · Score: 1

      Really, how hard is it to act professional in a workplace and refrain from speech or actions that someone might find harassing

      I think this is the crux of the matter - anyone is able to claim that anything makes them feel harassed, and the speaker is always instantly assumed to be in the wrong. Gone is the expectation of years past where you are taught that there is always going to be some level of bull in the world and you just ignore it and move on, because it really is just bull.

      The ability to ignore things is a useful survival skill, and it seems we're losing it - and society really is going to suffer. People just need to raise the bar a little bit - unless something is a pattern, and is consistently directed at the same people, just ignore it and spend your energy on more productive things.

      But systemic oppression? Yes please let's work on getting rid of it! But not through more oppression and trial-by-internet.

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
    18. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      You know what? That was well written and I need an excuse. So, there's another donation for FIRE. I put a little check mark down on an index card next to me. I'm going to reread this thread later. I'm gonna keep making check marks, I hope, and then I'm gonna donate a few bucks for every one of 'em.

      Why? Because (this is NOT directed at you, obviously) fuck those guys who'd squash speech. I don't even have much of anything offensive to say. However, I damned well want to retain the right to say offensive things if I should change my mind. Seriously, fuck 'em in ass with a red-hot poker.

      Hmm... Actually, I should go through and make a donation to FIRE for every post that is *for* stifling speech. But, that'd only encourage you clever people to say things along that line. So, no... I'm on to you guys and your sneaky ways! At any rate, I'll check back later and see what the thread looks like then when I read it from the top. Probably, assuming all goes according to plan, around 2200 -6 GMT, I'll read it again and I'll send 'em at least one donation.

      Now if only I could think of something appropriately offensive to say. Can I say "Injun Cracker Nigger?" I am, after all, a mix of all three.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    19. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fascist Asshole, priceless!

    20. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems to me this is about privileged types being able to intimidate people based on their backgrounds... and now that secular liberal colleges have their own conduct codes that strip away this bias, it is suddenly viewed as a wave of "oppression". This comes at a time when a very biased, white oligarchy finds its media monopoly no longer produces the kind of comfortable pecking order they are used to.

      The bottom line is: You have no business slagging people because of their non-personal baggage: their religious background or nationality, color, gender, sexual orientation and such. If you do, then you're needlessly creating a hostile environment and DON'T expect people not to push back.

    21. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by PvtVoid · · Score: 1

      Really, how hard is it to act professional in a workplace and refrain from speech or actions that someone might find harassing

      I think this is the crux of the matter - anyone is able to claim that anything makes them feel harassed, and the speaker is always instantly assumed to be in the wrong.

      Or, possibly, the crux of the matter is that clear, over-the-top sexual harassment is widespread in academia, and people are finally refusing to accept it as normal.

      GP is right: it isn't really all that hard to not act like a dick, but some people can't seem to make even that very low bar.

    22. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem occurs when one tries to define "harassing." For example, I find everything in your post to be harassing. So. How do we resolve this?

    23. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Free speech isn't the same as responsible and intelligent speech. I'm pro-union, but I know that my boss isn't. If I were to express my pro-union leanings to him, I don't doubt for a second that he'd invent a good enough reason to have me fired. He'd be offended, and get the feels because I was violating his conservative safe space and then censor me. Tough on me. What indignity. That's why I don't express myself- I self-censor so that I can remain self-sufficient.

      Conservative professors on predominantly left-leaning campuses are no different. They know what the atmosphere is like, and they know what will rile people up. They then act surprised when people want their heads for making some ridiculous statement about how homosexual black Jews shouldn't be allowed to read books. The fact is, they're just as entitled as anyone else, and when people start rioting they start crying foul like the spoiled little shits they are. If they had self-censored like I have to do on a daily basis, they wouldn't have the consequences. Simple.

      People need to get this through their heads. Speech is free, but it has costs. You are not entitled to tenure. You are not entitled to a job. You are not entitled to freedom from consequences. People want to have other people silenced all the time. People definitely are punished for making their voice heard. The notion that you aren't punished for having your voice heard in the US is a crock of shit.

    24. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Look at how awful political discourse is now, on both the left and the right. Everyone is hyper-focused on their opinions, partially because social media and targeted advertising continuously reinforces it. I really don't want a country of 300 million angry loudmouth Donald Trump clones walking around.

      Why should anyone care about what YOU want?

      Democracy isn't possible if everyone simply tries to outshout each other. In that competition the extremists will always trump everyone else, since they're best able to keep shouting with no hesitation or care for consequences, at which point the rest will either defect or be steamrolled. So either you care about what people who you don't like want, and take care to include elements of it on any proposal you're trying to seriously pass, or you get what's at best a series of short-lived dictatorships.

      Of course this also means that democracy is only possible if you can trust the basic institutions of your social context - typically a nation state with certain rights guaranteed by either tradition or Constitution - to continue working and protecting you even if the Other Guy wins. That becomes unlikely if the Other Guy's popularity is mainly based on openly hating you and having no human decency to hold him back.

      If Trump gets elected, that's either hitting the rock bottom or, more likely, the beginning of the end for the US.

      People should give me a million dollars.

      As it happens, just giving people money for free is likely what we'll end up having to do since automation is displacing them faster than they can get re-educated to a new position, and things are even worse in countries where they are expected to pay for said education themselves from their nonexistent wages. It's mainly a guestion of how far social and economic collapse processes first - do we still have a functioning world market afterwards?

      SJW crowd preach at the righteous church of tolerance and respect except of course when they disagree. Then any faÃfade of respect melts away to reveal the same weak confused hapless souls as all the oppressors who have lived before them.

      That's because there is no "SJW crowd". There are lots of people who protest any particular injustice for a variety of reasons, ranging from "this is wrong" to "this harms me personally", but with religion serving the powerful and Socialism still suffering from the shadow of Stalinism there's no consistent, unified ideology to criticize all social ills rather than merely trade one for another.

      Things will start getting better again when the Left adapts to the new situation and gets a new long-term goal. That will also give right-wing bundits a worthy opponent to focus on, rather than attack immigrants and other helpless people in the absence of one.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    25. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by ThosLives · · Score: 1

      I think it's worthwhile to distinguish between individual cases of harassment like that and general situations of "micro aggression" or "trigger words" or whatever it is that is going around these days.

      The differences between "this seems to be a case of actual targeted harassment" versus "this type of gathering and speech is intentionally divisive (e.g., KKK meetings as an extreme example) versus "we don't want to let people talk about this, because someone might be offended" are huge, and trying to lump them together is problematic.

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
    26. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a very distorted view of what conservative stands for, but that's to be expected when everything you watch has been purposefully engineered to distort your views.

    27. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Toshito · · Score: 1

      I don't think you understand what free speech means.

      The only acceptable limitation to free speech is when it put others in danger (like shouting Fire in a crowded place).

      Other than that, you can say what you want. Anything goes.

      And people in their forties are "old folks"??? WTF??? It's a microagression, I'm triggered by that, You should have a consequence! /sarcasm

      --
      Try it! Library of Babel
    28. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is gentle speak for whiney lil' bitch.

    29. Re:Why shouldn't free speech have consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really, how hard is it to act professional in a workplace and refrain from speech or actions that someone might find harassing?

      it's not hard at all, it merely requires you to shut up completely
      'someone might find' is awfully broad, and includes every cook that ever was or will be

  13. College officials HATE him! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Click here to read about these ten weird free speech tricks discovered by a student!"

  14. Re:Never thought I would see PC in red state schoo by NotDrWho · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I dare say that all the professors losing their jobs and students getting expelled for saying the wrong thing would view it as more than a "spat."

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
  15. Playing both sides.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks like some serious pandering to the whole SJW screaming match here. I mean sometimes we get the dub articles about the "gender/race" gap, that riles up the SJWs and makes them feel good, and brings out the anti-SJWs. Then here we have the opposite something that will bring out the anti-SJWs to say "yeah, those college SJW's by gum!".

    Thankfully I use adblock so jokes on Slashdot, fuckers.

    1. Re:Playing both sides.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And fortunately I use the SJW->skeleton text filter, so your comment becomes hilarious!

  16. Right out of the headlines by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    Let's add another to that list, take it all the way up to 11

    Oh! The ironing!

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  17. Re:Never thought I would see PC in red state schoo by belthize · · Score: 1

    "All" in this context is less fingers than you have unless you suck with power tools out of 10's of thousands.

    I can think of things that are more lethal and more likely that I'd reserve 'scary' for.

    Not right, concerning, wrong, cause for action, sure. Scary no.

  18. Parent has no clue by MikeRT · · Score: 5, Informative

    The "source" is one of the heads of FIRE, which is a civil liberties organization specifically devoted to issues like protecting the free speech rights of students and faculty from everything from overly broad speech codes, to not getting tenure because the professor fails to hold the right views. Chances are that if you are a university student or professor who has been victimized by campus commissars of political correctness, you will be represented by FIRE if you aren't doing it by yourself.

    Your whole comment just screams "ad hominem" because it focuses on one particular source cited when the writer is the head of a different organization that has an excellent record at defending the rights of students and faculty from campus autocrats. And yes, that is "ad hominem" in the true sense. Hey folks, don't believe it because damn dirty right wingers are involved, even if they are arguing that college campuses are trampling the rights of political minorities.

    1. Re:Parent has no clue by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I had no idea FIRE existed until just the other day. I meandered over and gave 'em a donation. For the record, it was Cold Fjord who pointed them out to me.

      Also, if you look around their site, you'll find that they have some "leftist" outrage material there as well. The reality is, there's going to be more leftists in the mix when it comes to this sort of thing. I know that some folks have trouble accepting this so I'd suggest a good start to do some research would be reading the Wikipedia article about "Free Speech Zones." Those zones were put in place by the Democrats, at DNC, in 1988.

      The right is many things. Safe spaces is not one of them.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    2. Re:Parent has no clue by tbannist · · Score: 1

      Your whole comment just screams "ad hominem" because it focuses on one particular source cited when the writer is the head of a different organization that has an excellent record at defending the rights of students and faculty from campus autocrats.

      Only if you're incompetent and have reading comprehension problems. He pointed an issue with their source, and then he agreed with them anyway. That's the opposite of an ad hominem.

      Hey folks, don't believe it because damn dirty right wingers are involved, even if they are arguing that college campuses are trampling the rights of political minorities.

      You may be projecting your combative political views on others.

      Personally, I do mistrust the list because it and the source articles on the FIRE web site for some of the events are loaded with prejudicial language and I feel they trying to tell me what I should think about the event they reference, rather than tell me about the events themselves. I don't like people trying to tell me what I should think especially when they may be hiding relevant details of the events from me. Maybe they're actually good people, I don't know, but I don't care for the way they've tried to (in my opinion) dishonesty shape my opinions.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    3. Re:Parent has no clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know that some folks have trouble accepting this so I'd suggest a good start to do some research would be reading the Wikipedia article about "Free Speech Zones." Those zones were put in place by the Democrats, at DNC, in 1988.

      You should do more than just look at Wikipedia articles if you want to encourage some research. That's a shallow examination at best, and at worst, you're going to get tripped up by Wikipedia's own limits. If you want research, encourage people to check out the prior national conventions. Check out any number of political conventions across the ages. Nothing wrong with organizing people, and setting up a specific area for rallies is fine. You could hardly expect all of them to be accommodated in the Omni, even if it didn't disrupt the party's business, the fire marshal would naturally be concerned.

      No, the problem is not with that, so much as it is akin to the Alien and Sedition Act issues that arose.

      The latter is where people have a problem, but Wikipedia is probably not the place to learn about that. Maybe a time machine, we could go back and compare notes. Got a spare Delorean and a few pounds of plutonium? I'm fresh out.

      Anyway, nobody minds when the Secret Service has barriers set up along streets where the Presidential Motorcade is moving. They mind when the Secret Service reads the signs and decides who gets to stand at those barriers, and who has to move elsewhere.

      But really, Wikipedia is a nice idea, but it has its limits, and politics is one of those issues where it tends to get lost.

    4. Re:Parent has no clue by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking you missed the whole "good place to start." If you're curious, you didn't ask, I find it reprehensible when anyone does it. These are not free speech zones inside the convention hall. They're outside, pushed at a distance, and restricting the use of public property. Now *that* is something that perturbs me. Inside the venue, that's private property (usually). Outside, on the street, is not. That the government allows this is disheartening. That you liken it to physical security is disingenuous.

      At any rate, the "good place to start" is the key part of that. I should probably stop expecting people to read all the words that I write. I do tend to say things too complex to fit on a bumper and they surely don't fit in a Twit. (I'm thinking Twit is singular.) So, I guess it's not entirely unlikely that you'd miss some of the words.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    5. Re:Parent has no clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you missed my point, which was that contrary to your suggestion, Wikipedia is a terrible place to start, not a good place. As I said, you should do more than look at some Wikipedia articles if you want to encourage some research. Perhaps I should have been more direct? Then I shall so endeavor:

      You gave poor advice on a starting place, as it will misdirect people's research and lead to poorly informed persons, as it will not even offer a good path to getting the real story, but stall the curious person out rather than lead them towards a greater understanding.

      Hence my suggesting, if a bit jocularly, that we could go back in time to see things, rather than start at Wikipedia. Then we could compare notes, and decide on a better place to begin. Instead of making an insightful remark that will get people started on a good path, as even referring to Speaker's Corner at Hyde Park might do, you channeled people into a dead end.

      I hope that's clearer to you. Wikipedia, good place for some things, perhaps, but a poor place on this one.

      In fact, given the quality of that article, I wouldn't recommend looking at it until you've had a good foundation so you can spot its inadequacies.

      Moving on, I'm glad you're disheartened, and you find it to be disingenuous, but you're a bit late to the party, since that's what I also said. Did you not comprehend what I meant by pointing out that say, erecting barriers along a street is fine, it's looking at the message on signs and deciding who to move where that bothers people? Was that also unclear to you? Did you not know that's what people are complaining about? That the assertion of security is used while the "real" reason is the message itself?

      Apologies if that was the case.

      But it's nothing new. Not even in the United States, it took barely a decade before John Adams had the Sedition Act passed. Learning about that would be a good place to start. Much better than Wikipedia's article on Free Speech Zones. It doesn't even give you a good grounding on the subject.

    6. Re:Parent has no clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "source" is one of the heads of FIRE, which is a civil liberties organization specifically devoted to issues like protecting the free speech rights of students and faculty from everything from overly broad speech codes

      Actually, no, they don't. The FIRE name is actually a reference to the sword held by the angel in front of the garden of Eden to which Adam and Eve could not return. They don't defend free speech, they attack organizations for not holding to Christian views and Vestal Law. FIRE will only have your back as long as you are right wing enough for them to care about you.

    7. Re:Parent has no clue by KGIII · · Score: 1

      It's a fine spot to start. Click on citations and read the source material and then dig down from there. It's literally one of the best places to start on the internet. You start there, you then follow it back or forward, and think for yourself. If you can't use Wikipedia as a good start that speaks more to you than it does to them. It's full of excellent search terms to find source material on other sites, it lists dates so that you an find newspaper articles that might not be listed, it has citations so that you can check it for balance, names, and locations and do more research from there.

      We're never going to agree on this and you've provided no reasons for me to change my view. Just because you go to Wikipedia and stop there isn't my fault. It's a fine place to start, you just have to be less lazy and able to think for yourself. It's a great jump-off point. It's a horrible end-point. The problem is those who use it as an end point as opposed to a tool to find more information, original sources, and actual information that's not slanted with opinions. Be less lazy? It's worth noting that you offered no alternative. It's a fine place to start, it's a damned stupid place to stop.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    8. Re:Parent has no clue by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      I;m sorry I need to point something out to you, the correct term for the posts people put on Twitter is "Tweet". It is the people who post who are Twits.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    9. Re:Parent has no clue by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Correction accepted. Err... I don't tweet much. Read, never. I don't actually have an account. No, I don't have a Facebook, MySpace, or any other accounts of that nature. I'm kind of a slacker these days.

      At any rate, twits sounds an appropriate name for the users - if the general consensus and antics I read about are to be believed. Though, I guess, life's probably a lot easier when you're able to reduce your thoughts and opinions into 140 characters. I've found life to be a bit too complicated to fit on a bumper sticker.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    10. Re:Parent has no clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, the age-old question, if a student does not learn, is it the teacher's fault, or the student? Harder to say, without a clear line as to who is teaching and who is learning.

      Still, I gave you a reason not to suggest the Wikipedia article on Free Speech zones as a place to start, you just haven't listened to it. You can say it's not a reason that is persuasive to you, but it is a reason. To repeat that reason, it's a bad place to start since it gives no real information, but instead misleads. To give it as a place to start is to give it more credence than it deserves. To say that is a fine place to start, well, I say starting there is like trying to start a race lying flat on your back. Try to do better than that.

      Seriously, I don't know why you even bother to defend it, you have plenty of other choices you could have made. I could just as easily say you were lazy because you picked a poor Wikipedia article instead of seeking a better, more informative choice.

      But no, I gave a suggestion, perhaps you missed it? And no, I didn't just mean the reference I made to using a time machine (preferable though I do find direct experience, it is somewhat impractical with history, more's the pity.). Did you miss how I suggested that if you wish to encourage research, that you suggest people check out prior national conventions as a whole? Any number of them across the ages, in fact.

      Did you need me to tell you how it might be done? Well, as I said, if jokingly, to check it out yourself, as personal experience is most telling, but if you need more specific details, even telling people to use a search engine would be better.

      Do you need more specifics? Would you like me to mention Haymarket Square? The Know-Nothing Riots? The Continental Congress of 1774? The Beer Hall Putsch? The Nika Riots? Perhaps I should suggest reading Lysistrata or Julius Caesar (it being impractical to suggest catching them being performed live, though I support with Youtube it is feasible to watch some video, I guess). I already mentioned the Alien and Sedition Acts, a subject about which more people should be aware.

      If you're going to link to a Wikipedia article to cover, try that one. Or even Censorship in the United States.

      Your choice was just a lazy one. If you must refer to Wikipedia, at least make a better choice for pages on that site. Not a poor quality article.

      But thanks for reminding me why I have such a distaste for the place. The things it does well often lead to people using it for the things it does poorly without being willing to see the issues.

    11. Re:Parent has no clue by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      I feel they trying to tell me what I should think about the event they reference, rather than tell me about the events themselves

      That's called an "editorial'.

  19. Re:Not really by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

    I was dreading reading the list because my state hosts to a few very vocal wack jobs that embarrasses the majority of the residents on the national news all the time. I'm not sure if I should be surprised we're not on the list, not surprised, or just relieved.

  20. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yup. They make the staff do it too. My wife turned down a job at a local god squad university, because you had to sign on the dotted line that you are a theist. The department had a good research reputation and apparently the standard practice is to just lie.

     

  21. SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disorder by Jesrad · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When so many people started talking about the importance of "trigger warnings" and how they had developped "PTSD" from encountering divergent opinions from theirs, I just shrugged and. When my younger brother transitioned to female and started raving hard about all things Social-Justice-y, I was stupefied. When she started talkign about her anxiety attacks over the mere mention of the word "rape" (she has never been sexually assaulted nor witnessed any rape except on TV), I started digging into the science of anxiety fits to see what there really was about it.

    It turns out that one can indeed teach one's own brain to develop PTSD over any kind of stimuli at all. All you need to do is to foster a sense of being threatened every time you encounter the stimulus of your choice. For example, you start thinking about people trying to beat you up, of menacing predators pouncing, of natural disasters closing in on you, whenever the stimulus is there. You can also jsut go and read detailed testimonies of aggressions - the more expressive and vivid, the better. You then reinforce and validate this self-inflicted perception of threat by expressing to other people how you feel threatened by the stimulus of your choice, and have the other people agree with you. Basically, this retrains your amygdala into stimulating your cingulate cortex so that it activates the limbic axis for fight-or-flight response. With enough practice, you can push yourself deep into somatization, and develop identical symptoms to that of genuine PTSD-sufferers, to the point where you will have nausea and dizziness just from thinking about the stimulus.

    The interesting thing is, it's the kind of the reverse of desensitization therapy for actual PTSD: if you have a rape victim with severa agoraphobia, you can slowly train their amygdala into NOT stimulating the cingulate cortex and thus not triggering panic attacks by desensitizing them to open spaces or the outside, until the link between "outside" and "being attacked" ceases to exist in the brain.

    That, IMO, is how SJWs make themselves sick, and make others around them sick, with an acquired mental disorder.

    --
    Maybe we deserve this world ?
  22. State institutions are government agencies by MikeRT · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There are two classes of school policies that should be resulting in the prosecution of public school officials who implement them: zero tolerance policies and any sort of speech code that goes beyond upholding basic legal tenants like not creating a public disturbance. Enough of this bullshit about how the laws of our society don't apply in the one part of government most young people can't avoid (K-12) by law and at most of the universities they can afford.

    As for private schools that promise free speech and renege, they should be fully liable for breech of contract, payment of legal fees and whatever else is necessary to make the student whole if they go after them in violation of their stated policies and values.

  23. Re:Triumph comic dog visitng non-oppressive colleg by Tailhook · · Score: 1
    --
    Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
  24. Amherst Students Protest ‘Free Speech' by schwit1 · · Score: 1
  25. For anyone that wishes to have a rational debate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can close this out fast.

    CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE!!!1111111

    There... end of discussion.

  26. Offending Students ‘Is Against the Law&rsquo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://reason.com/blog/2016/0...
    A University of Texas at Austin cop issued a disorderly conduct citation to a preacher because his words were offensive to some students.

  27. Re:Never thought I would see PC in red state schoo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's enough if 1-2 lose their jobs for the remaining 1000 to get the message, be scared and not open their mouth any more. Censorship is most successful when a system is established in which people self-censor for fear of negative consequences if they actually use their right to free speech which they still have on paper.

    A few lost jobs is all it takes to make people self-censor and to be a serious threat to freedom. SJWs are a far greater threat than many people think and should be fought accordingly

  28. Re:Not really by Salgak1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And if they catch you at it, you get what you deserve. Falsifying a personal document is generally grounds for immediate dismissal in ANY business. Don't want to sign on the dotted line ? Then don't. And look elsewhere for employment. . .

  29. When did college students become so self-centered? by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1
    While I fully realize that some speech can be hateful and/or offensive, too much of the speech I see being called "offensive" on college campuses nowadays is little more than a different opinion.

    .
    Perhaps this is just an extension of the filter bubble that everyone creates for themselves in their view of the internet, i.e., tending to visit sites or "friend" people with opinions similar to yours. Then when these people get to college, they are offended that there are others with differing viewpoints.

    College, as a home for new and fresh ideas, is dying.

  30. Re:Not really by DrStrangluv · · Score: 3, Informative

    No, they don't. They have doctrinal statements for faculty and staff, and may have stricter conduct codes, but they are generally willing to enroll students of any faith/non-faith who are will to abide by the conduct codes

  31. Re:Never thought I would see PC in red state schoo by belthize · · Score: 1

    Some of the fired professors were fired *because* of their SJW proclivities. They were offended by something some autocrat said, spoke out and the autocrat fired them. Are you going to defend them even though they're special little snow flakes whose feelings were hurt by the idea of drowning little bunnies or do you approve of their firing ?

    Free speech is free speech, it's not limited to just those you agree with. If you're truly that concerned about free speech then defend free speech. If you're more concerned about defending your personally held beliefs from the SJW crowd that's fine but don't conflate it with a general love of free speech.

    For what it's worth I like the analogy and wholeheartedly agree with the idea of drowning the little bunnies, increasing retention at any cost is a dumb idea but the factulty shouldn't have been fired for being offended.

  32. Social justice trumps the first amendment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1st amendment to the constitution? Pssst. Why should that matter when some 20 year olds fee-fees are at stake! You might trigger someone who's had such a rough life living middle class and loved.

  33. Really changed in 10 years by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

    I graduated college back in 2009. Went to a small Baptist university in rural North Carolina that had only recently broken from the Southern Baptist Convention. They had chapel every Thursday morning a students were basically required to go to at least some of them while you attended (you had to attend a certain number of events such as chapel, plays, and concerts but unless you went to every single play and concert you had to go to some chapels because you wouldn't have enough events). But even there we still had comparative religion classes, there were class trips (purely historical and sightseeing) that went to places like Tunisia.

    What is the whole purpose of going to college if not to challenge not only you, but also the way in which you view the world. Is that not how you learn and grow as a person? Just as you can't win a debate by shouting down your opponent (although Trump seems to think that counts as a victory), stifling every opinion that differs from your own doesn't mean that your side is right. Instead it simply shows that either your side or your own beliefs are so weak that any challenge of them will bring the whole thing crashing down. I'm afraid we will eventually get in a situation where a whole generation of people will be unable to cope with challenging or dissenting viewpoints, and instead of trying to defend their own beliefs will simply do the equivalent of holding their hands over their ears while shouting "la la la, can't hear you".

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    1. Re:Really changed in 10 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That sounds like a Mickey Mouse school, with religion, Mickey-Mouse and/or feel-good courses, and little else. What's the point of going to college for that?

    2. Re:Really changed in 10 years by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      That sounds like a Mickey Mouse school, with religion, Mickey-Mouse and/or feel-good courses, and little else. What's the point of going to college for that?

      That Mickey Mouse school also has one of the best pharmacy schools in the country.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    3. Re:Really changed in 10 years by fermion · · Score: 0

      A surprising number of terrorists in the US have ties to N and S Carolina. That these states keep making the news for oppression is not surprising.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  34. Re:Not really by Psion · · Score: 4, Informative

    I work at a Catholic university. When I first started here, I was extremely cautious about my agnostic views, but over time learned that most of the people here are open to and nice about alternative views. I've even become friends with the campus ministry and they know of my leanings. I think part of it is that I'm as respectful of their views as they are of mine and we work together with common purpose. I know Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, and even atheists on staff and in faculty, and have never witnessed any kind of retribution against anyone because of their religious beliefs.

  35. Tryanny of the majority by sjbe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have the opposite view -- I feel there needs to be some sort of consequences for inflammatory speech.

    Careful there. You are correct that free speech does not (and should not) equal consequence free speech except where Constitutionally defined. HOWEVER sometimes what is considered inflammatory by some is considered ordinary by others. Just because an opinion is unpopular doesn't mean there should always be consequences. It wasn't that long ago that saying something like "man evolved from apes" or "interracial marriage is ok" could get you into some serious hot water. Heck there are still parts of this country that (technically) you cannot hold public office if you say you don't believe in god. Always having consequences for spoken ideas can result in things like Jim Crow laws if you aren't careful. It can easily become a tyranny of the majority or of the powerful.

  36. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The fact that people going there sign up for it doesn't mean it's a good thing. Some students may be pushed to go to such an institution by their parents, or they may have a scholarship that means its the only place they can afford to go, or whatever. So they sign up because have to, not because they want to.

  37. Little Hitlers in college by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would seem that a few colleges out there are in the hands of little Hitlers.

  38. Forgot One by Thelasko · · Score: 3, Informative

    Besides the fact the article is lacking in its method to rank the schools, they forgot about Wheaton College.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    1. Re:Forgot One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the comments of TFA, they mention they don't include private colleges where students sign a contract waiving some of their free speech rights (usually based on statements of faith, etc), so Wheaton, BYU, etc. wouldn't be on that list.

    2. Re:Forgot One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would they be on the list? It's a Christian college, and the professor in question is essentially the Christian equivalent of a flat-Earther. When you have someone employed be a religious institution who flat-out disagrees with the basic tenants of faith, why would you bother keeping them around?

      You wouldn't be surprised if a college like MIT fired a professor for insisting the Earth is flat, why be surprised when a religious school does the same thing?

  39. Re:Never thought I would see PC in red state schoo by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    In one case a student was expelled and the administrator attempted to prevent the student from getting a degree at any other college. Had he been successful, the student would have been out tens of thousands of dollars and had his career damaged or destroyed, all for exercising his right to free speech. That is scary.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  40. Compare and contrast by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Look at the "Filthy Speech Movement" of 1965.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  41. Re:Not really by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 4, Insightful

    willing to enroll students of any faith/non-faith who are will to abide by the conduct codes

    The code of conduct is misleading, for serious students they're usually not that onerous, just focus on your studies and you probably will never have disciplinary issues. But you can't live some place for 4+ years and be a castle, particularly not with modern group-based education practices. My sister went to Liberty, I don't know why, but I hear-tell if you are even mildly catholic, never mind some heathen non-Christian religion, you won't feel very welcome. I don't know how it is now that Falwell is gone, but I felt it clearly standing there during graduation. There's a secret handshake in the vocabulary they use, and the interpretations they use.

    Unless there is some very compelling reason to be at a religious university, I think it's just not worth pretending to be someone you are not. There are plenty of good secular schools. In the US at least most of the secular schools offer both better educations and better reputations anyhow, with a few exceptions I can think of.

  42. Free Speech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, well, well...
    Talking about Freshmen as 'bunnies' is bad? Any Senior in college has thought something similar, and Sophomores know that the freshman casualty rate is rather spectacular (where remedial courses are not the freshman year...).
    College is tough. Learning facts by itself is daunting, and learning to think past 'what mama always said...' is even worse.
    Darwinian is a good word for freshman classes ( NO Remediation classes when I started college...) and the resulting casualty rate.
    Flunk the dummies and in 4 years you will have graduates worth having.

    As for the other items - PC? Offended? Safe Zones?
    What is all this poop? Who thinks that rose-colored glasses ( and ear-filters ) will last past the first trip to jail for any infraction?
    Or past the first mugging? Or exclusion from a bar/coffee shop because their clothing/hair/attitude is offensive to the owners/patrons ?
    I know it wont last past the kickbacks/bribes needed to start a business, or the sudden realization of the actual meanings in business contracts.
    No, children, and administrators, you are educational institutions/students - not businesses. ( retention for more $$$ )
    The difference between education and business has become blurred. Grants, loans, sports income have all contributed to the business model creeping into education.

    So the good old days are gone... And the BS/BA is not worth real parchment.
    Watered down, so the graduates are crippled by their own inability to think without protection ( mind condoms? )
    They ought to get 'safety helmets' instead of a diploma.
    Such is what happens when Administration and helicopter parents and social/educational/psychological specialists interfere with the educational process.

    So how many graduates in any PC setting really understand agression ( not micro ) competition, honesty ( buy reports, grades ),
    their own ignorance vs knowledge, sexual harassment vs verbal sexual play, racism vs verbal satire on race/religion/politics/body types ?

    Children - 'they' have done you a disservice.
    Helicopter parents : you raised children, you should have raised adults.
    Administrators: You value money/fear lawsuits more than allowing an idjit to have your institutions name.

    Now, get this: cold hard facts say that we have decided to value PC and egg-walking more than truth or honesty.
    And until things are straightened out.... Stay off my lawn and dont try to sell that doublespeak to me.

  43. There are limits to free speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You can't shout "Fire" in a crowded theatre. And you shouldn't be able to use racial and sexist profanities to intimidate people.

    1. Re:There are limits to free speech by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      You can't shout "Fire" in a crowded theatre. And you shouldn't be able to use racial and sexist profanities to intimidate people.

      Since you volunteered, tell that to Mr. Trump.

    2. Re:There are limits to free speech by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      as the much-missed hitchens pointed out,

      the fire ruling was made to silence the speech of socialist jews that were trying to keep america out of WWI.

      it was not a good ruling.

    3. Re:There are limits to free speech by operagost · · Score: 1

      You can't shout "Fire" in a crowded theatre.

      Including if there's a fire, if you're a SJW. By the way, that "quote" doesn't mean what you think it does, taken out of context.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    4. Re:There are limits to free speech by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I don't like Trump, as I'm sure you know, but I've actually listened to his speeches (some of them) and I'm pretty sure he's not guilty of that. Oh, he's close to guilty of that - he's walking a damned fine line. But, I don't think he's guilty of that. I'm not even sure his goal is intimidation.

      And I have listened. The reason(s) I listened were many and I was going to listen anyhow. I was going to listen even if just to point out the problems. And there are lots of problems to point out.

      One of the things that gets thrown out about Trump is that he's sounding like a Fascist. He really isn't. Not he, himself. However, listen to some of his followers and fans? Now *they* sound like what I picture a modern fascist to sound like. Or, at risk of Godwinning, Hitler. Trump doesn't sound like Hitler. His fans kind of sound like Hitler's fans. Then again, they have a lot of similarities with the rabid Obama fans.

      I've also noticed a trend to take much of what he says out of context. I don't actually know why they bother. Trust me, it's horrible enough without the need to exaggerate or take things out of context.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    5. Re:There are limits to free speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't shout "Fire" in a crowded theatre. - well what am I supposed to shout if there is a fire RAPE! - oh wait!

  44. Question for all of you on campus by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When was the last time you stopped yourself from saying something you believed to be true for fear of being punished for saying it?

    If you are on an American campus, it probably hasn't been long.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:Question for all of you on campus by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      When was the last time you stopped yourself from saying something you believed to be true for fear of being punished for saying it?

      When was the last time you accepted responsibility for saying something that you know was inappropriate to say?

      Seems like the people who want to scream, "The president is a [church bells]!" (to paraphrase Mel Brooks), are the same people who cry about political correctness because they're not to say things without consequences.

    2. Re:Question for all of you on campus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do every day at work. Most of my co-workers are devout Progressives. The hate they spew towards anyone that is not also Progressive is insane. If they knew I was a Republican, they'd exile me from any discourse and I would be unable to collaborate on anything I need to get done. For always talking about being the inclusive ones and not shying away from calling others racists, biggots, etc, they are the most closed minded, hate mongering people when it comes to difference of opinion.

    3. Re:Question for all of you on campus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And of course, women and minorities never have this problem.

    4. Re:Question for all of you on campus by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      Agreed.... I actually fall more towards the middle, but find people calling themselves "conservative" are more willing to discuss things openly. Going against progressives gets you a slew of actual "hateful" terms thrown in your direction. It's fair to say this goes both ways, but for conservatives it's more extremists, for progressives it's like the average progressive.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    5. Re:Question for all of you on campus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every single day and I don't even go to school. The govt may not be restricting free speech so much these days, but culturally it's getting worse and worse.

    6. Re:Question for all of you on campus by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Nearly every day.

      As far as the university is concerned I am classified as a "minority". I am a military veteran with a documented disability, basically I screwed up my feet and knees while in the US Army. You'd think a "minority" like myself should feel free to speak up, but I don't. I'm a white Christian heterosexual male so that must make me one of the most hated people on campus. Anyone affiliated with the "military industrial complex" such as someone that served in the US Army doesn't gain me any points in some circles.

      What probably makes me the most hated is that I believe in a limited government bound by the constitution that created it.

      What also burns me a bit is that for me to get my tuition paid for I had to serve in the military while others get their tuition paid for because they showed the financial aid office that they are 1/8th African, Hispanic, or Native American.

      I have to sit in class with these people that get their tuition for free for being a minority. About half of them see this as a means to party it up for four years before they go back to the hell hole they came from to live on welfare for the rest of their life. The other half see this free tuition as a path from the hell hole they came from so that they don't have to live on welfare like their parents and grandparents.

      I once had a computer science professor spend about half of one class hour talking about how war is bad. I thought about telling her that as a military veteran that I'd rather not be lectured about war from someone that has not served while in a class that is supposed to be discussing computational mathematics. But I didn't say anything. I just thought about how that would look to the other students in the room. It would be me, a large white male with a buzz cut and combat boots, telling a college lecturer with a doctorate in mathematics about how she should conduct her class. Did I mention that the instructor was a woman?

      If you want to use your government funded education to go out and improve yourself and the world around you then good for you. If you want to use your government funded education to protest on how "the man" (meaning me) keeps you down and must pay, financially, for how "they" (again meaning me) wronged you in the past then I say fuck off and die.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    7. Re:Question for all of you on campus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And who gets to define what's "inappropriate"? You and your crowd? It sure seems to come off that way. You want "consequences" (punishment) for anybody who voices an opinion that runs counter to your own.

      If you, creimer, call someone racist and another group decides that your accusation is unjustified and therefore inappropriate, should there be consequences for you? What should those consequences be?

      Or do you just want to be able to say whatever YOU want, and use "consequences" as a club against others?

    8. Re:Question for all of you on campus by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      And who gets to define what's "inappropriate"?

      Polite society.

      You want "consequences" (punishment) for anybody who voices an opinion that runs counter to your own.

      That's the definition of a Republican.

      If you, creimer, call someone racist and another group decides that your accusation is unjustified and therefore inappropriate, should there be consequences for you? What should those consequences be?

      If I go up to group of black men, get in their faces and call them niggers, the consequences I expect is to be laughed at, have the police called, get my ass beaten, or all of the above.

      Or do you just want to be able to say whatever YOU want, and use "consequences" as a club against others?

      That's the definition of a Tea Party Republican.

  45. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    isn't that the very definition of entitlement?

  46. There is one big one that they forgot..... by TC+Wilcox · · Score: 5, Informative

    Full-disclosure: I attended BYU and actually really enjoyed my time there. Brigham Young University should be on that list. Student's will be expelled (and their transcripts locked so they can't transfer credits either) if they convert from Mormonism to any other religion while a student. You can literally get academically disciplined for profanity or criticizing LDS leaders. It isn't just student's though. Faculty can also get in serious trouble for what they say. For example, a BYU professor and historian (Michael Quinn) was strongly pressured to leave after he published honest histories of the LDS church's history with polygamy. He had been an excellent professor as evidenced by the fact that one of his years at BYU the graduating class voted him the best professor on campus. BYU is absolutely not a place where you can talk about the LDS church honestly and openly without getting kicked out (at least if you want to talk about large parts of history that the church tries to bury).

    1. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Yes, but that is a single university, a unique one at that. This article is talking about widespread leftist trends on ALL American colleges. Plainly, BYU can't do that much damage even if they started wearing hammer-and-sickle armbands and started burning books. But this trend of suppressing free speech - it can and will destroy everything Western culture holds dear.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    2. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by wile_e_wonka · · Score: 1

      I also attended BYU and loved it and agree that is has serious free speech issues (which surprises no one), but it is apparent you either didn't read the article closely or misunderstood the purpose of the list. The purpose of the list is to point out recent egregious acts, so BYU has surely been on the list in prior years (and Liberty, and other strict religious colleges) but the makers of the list are looking for fresh meat every year. It isn't an actual top 10 list, but rather a venue to point out recent events that are concerning to the authors. Most schools on the list only have one event detailed for the basis of landing them on the list at all. Also, this type of conduct is expected from someplace like BYU, which makes it less newsworthy, but Northwestern, etc?--That is pretty noteworthy.

    3. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by operagost · · Score: 1

      BYU is a private institution.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    4. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by TC+Wilcox · · Score: 1

      True. So are many of the universities that did make it onto the list.

    5. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by TC+Wilcox · · Score: 1

      Perhaps this type of conduct is expected out of someplace like BYU. If so then I think that is kind of sad.... I disagree though that there aren't currently egregious violations of free-speech at BYU. I brought up that if an LDS student converts to any other religion they will be kicked out of school and their transcripts will be locked so they can't transfer to another university either (because the school views converting from LDS faith to another faith as an honor code violation and they lock transcripts for honor code violations). The student would also be kicked out of their housing if this occurred. How is this not an egregious suppression of speech?

    6. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had deep ties to the LDS Church, going back enough generations that my ancestors personally knew Joseph Smith. I'm also now not associated (by choice) with the Church, for reasons I'll not discuss.

      My related through remarriage brother was big on the Mormon Church. He did a mission, and was determined to do the best he could where he thought it was needed the worst. So he did a mission in Amsterdam. Upon returning with what could be described as accolades, the BYU admission board revoked his scholarship and made his time at the University difficult, mostly because an administrator decided that my bother went to Amsterdam to party it up instead of doing "God's work". To add insult to injury, he also officially documented that he suspected my brother to be a "masturbateor". While such a suspicion might be a small thing to most groups, even the suspicion (not verified) was grounds for immediate revocation of the scholarship.

      I haven't set foot on BYU, and at my age, I likely will never need to. However, anyone who thinks it is a poor haven for freedom of speech is only scratching the surface. From my phone conversations as I tried to be a supporting shoulder, BYU is no more than a fairy kingdom for the believers until someone decides they aren't. Then it is basically hell. I do not recommend it to anyone, even good standing Mormons, because a rumor here, an irate person there, and next thing you know you're in four years of hell.

    7. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      It's also important to note that BYU is private and thus is not actually subject to *some* of the restrictions that are in place at a public institution. That might seem to be little different and I'd agree that they're morally similar. However, the other is a question of legality and a rather basic enumerated right. The similarity ends there.

      Apologies if BYU is not private because I'm too lazy to go look but I'm pretty sure they are.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    8. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by Deadstick · · Score: 1

      They certainly didn't penalize your use of apostrophes...

    9. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Full-disclosure: I attended BYU and actually really enjoyed my time there.

      Brigham Young University should be on that list. Student's will be expelled (and their transcripts locked so they can't transfer credits either) if they convert from Mormonism to any other religion while a student. You can literally get academically disciplined for profanity or criticizing LDS leaders. It isn't just student's though. Faculty can also get in serious trouble for what they say. For example, a BYU professor and historian (Michael Quinn) was strongly pressured to leave after he published honest histories of the LDS church's history with polygamy. He had been an excellent professor as evidenced by the fact that one of his years at BYU the graduating class voted him the best professor on campus.

      BYU is absolutely not a place where you can talk about the LDS church honestly and openly without getting kicked out (at least if you want to talk about large parts of history that the church tries to bury).

      You were surprised that a Mormon school run by the Mormon church protected the Mormon church's view of the Mormon religion?

      Just what did you expect from a PRIVATE school run by a CHURCH?

    10. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by TC+Wilcox · · Score: 1

      Nope. Wrote it quick and dirty-like. Unfortunately slashdot hasn't discovered "edit" yet.

    11. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      While I don't disagree that those are pretty bad (assuming they're all true) BYU is an EXPLICITLY, clearly, ardently Mormon school. Always has been, as far as I know.

      What you're talking about would be like going to Islam University and then claiming you're atheist.
      The only place that's allowed is explicitly Christian schools, they're expected to tolerate it.

      --
      -Styopa
    12. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I actually thought BYU-Idaho might make the list due to recent anti-homosexual issues that have happened there. But examining that issue in context, it's not academic scrutiny/censorship/tomfoolery as much as it is the church enforcing it's disgusting notions of morality.

      captcha: collars

    13. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mountain Meadows.

    14. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As part of the honour code, you need ecclesiastical endorsement (for mormons that's their bishop) for a catholic it would be their local vicar I guess. If they leave the church they certainly aren't going to have that endorsement from their bishop anymore.

    15. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jeffrey Dammer

      See I can throw out irrelevant historical incidents too.

    16. Re:There is one big one that they forgot..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also attended BYU -- citation please...

  47. Cultural inclusivity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I caused a minor revolt and pissed off the ultra-leftists (the sane leftists sympathized with my views) when I publically accused our micro-aggressions indocrnitator that she was being culturally insensitive and that it was absolutely unethical and a violation of university policy for her to conflate cultural idioms with aggressions. Something like "When speaking a rural Appalachian dialect is a microaggression, you have banned my culture" and then quoted our "cultural diversity" statement. Itw as funny. The indoctrinator was red faced and puffy. The ultra-leftists went off on their screed, the sane leftists argued with them, and then the hour allotted was over. I'm sure I'll be summoned to the dean's office again, and I think I'll have the EO complaint written.

    1. Re:Cultural inclusivity by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Culture is not a protected attribute. Culture, religion, political views and anything else that is a matter of choice can be freely criticised.

      You shouldn't get in trouble for arguing your point, but others have every right to criticise your culture.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Cultural inclusivity by Shane_Optima · · Score: 1

      Which words in your "dialect" did she take issue with?

      I'm not taking her side; I just think the story might be more interesting if you fleshed it out a bit.

    3. Re:Cultural inclusivity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Y'all niggers over there"

    4. Re:Cultural inclusivity by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Culture is not a basis for a protected class, but if someone is preaching extreme sensitivity to possible problems with groups, it isn't consistent to blame a whole culture. If one culture has a standard form of expression that sounds like a micro-aggression and is not meant that way, isn't it a micro-aggression to rebuke someone from that culture for using the standard form?

      At some point, trying to accommodate everybody is going to break down. Pointing out micro-aggressions isn't itself a bad thing (I never want to accidentally insult someone), but it really has to be done with sensitivity.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    5. Re: Cultural inclusivity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Criticizing a culrure can easily be conflated to criticizing a religion when the culture (way of life, based on a religion) is difficult to disambiguate from the religion. Criticize Hinduism in India, Robert Jones in Augusta, GA, etc., and see how far you get.

    6. Re:Cultural inclusivity by Shane_Optima · · Score: 1

      Yes, that amusing thought briefly occurred me as well, but I think we'll have made tremendous strides as a nation when we reach the point where "niggers" is considered a mere a micro-aggression by 'ultra-leftists'.

      I'm genuinely curious about what the expression was. I'm thinking it's more likely to be referring to a female, but offhand I can't think of one that is particular to rural Appalachia. Biddy, maybe?

    7. Re:Cultural inclusivity by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      Depends on the power dynamics.

      If you were in early-19th century Britain, and the upper classes insisted on belittling their lessors as part of their "culture," that would be bad because the lessors would have no recourse except moving to America/Canada/Australia/etc.

      Unless we know who he was talking about, and how (dropping the n-bomb is a bit different then calling them "honey") it's kinda hard to tell what should have happened.

    8. Re:Cultural inclusivity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Stupid hillbillies" is politically wrong; we prefer "Appalachian Americans with educational deficits" instead.

  48. Re:Not really by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    I have no idea why your sister went there (I gather from your writing that she was Catholic or otherwise not quite of the same religious thinking as the majority of students there), but from what I've read, one big reason other non-evangelical students go there is because their parents basically force them to, such as by paying their tuition there but only there and not a decent state school, threatening to cut off all support if they don't go there, etc.

  49. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait, you have a younger brother who "transitioned to female" and you refer to your brother as "she"? You must be one of those mushy-brained SJWs that people complain about.

    No, a SJW would have probably used a made-up pronoun like "hir".

  50. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, entitlement is when you think someone else owes you something you haven't earned, like thinking the government owes you welfare just for breathing, or cheap labor just for being a corporation.

  51. "Far more horrifying"? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

    Far more horrifying and worrisome for the future were the number of cases where the students themselves moved to stamp down on opposing views.

    And they shouldn't be allowed to do that? Sounds like Subby wants those students censored, in the name of "free speech".

    1. Re:"Far more horrifying"? by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      And they shouldn't be allowed to do that?

      No, they shouldn't.

      They must be allowed to publically disagree with those having opposing views, but not stamp down on them.

  52. Bring it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm from rural Appalachia. "People like you dont' belong here". Nobody dares say that to a black woman, but it was perfectly acceptable for someone to say that to me because of my cultural background and dialect. Further, show me a systematic attempt to suppress the freedom of speech of blacks as a group, and I'll join the fight to fix it. You, however, just tried to whitewash a systematic attempt to silence a group that's not "politically convenient"

  53. Repeat after Me: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Freedom of speech restricts governments and not private actors. Half of these schools are private. If we're going to discuss freedom speech we oughta know what the hell we're talking about; we oughta get the damn words right.

    1. Re:Repeat after Me: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you repeat after me:

      Freedom of speech is not just governmental rule in the US, it is a social concept as well.

  54. Re:Not really by Shane_Optima · · Score: 2

    This sounds an awful lot like that weird hyper-capitalism argument used to shut down debate about anything. "Don't like Microsoft? Just don't buy their products!"

    This is a very strange but often successful attempt to shut down a conversation. There's usually an implication that the person making the original observation was suggesting that something should be illegal; there is no such implication here that I'm aware of. The point is that the anti-freedom perils of ultra-conservative universities might be worth mentioning alongside the anti-freedom perils of ultra-progressive universities. Granted, the former wears its heart on its sleeve much more prominently, but I'm concerned about young people growing up in either environment.

  55. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

    'Social normalization of deviance means that people within the organization become so much accustomed to a deviant behaviour that they don't consider it as deviant, despite the fact that they far exceed their own rules for the elementary safety.' - Diane Vaughan

    The longer it goes on within an organisation, the more people become accustomed to it. People on the outside see it as abnormal but within the organisation it becomes accepted as everyday practise.
    http://www.fastjetperformance....

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  56. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what?
    This article is about active opressing free speech on campus after they are in. It isn't talking about the rules for admission policies. If there is a public university that is guilty of this, that is a different issue, but for the private institutions if they want religion as a requirement so what.

    Oh wait I saw your User name, so I am going to jump to a conclusion that you are one of those "Evangelical" atheists, who hates all things talking about religion. However feel the need to bring it up, as some crazed obsession. Who in a few years have some life changing event and become a radical christian knocking on doors trying to get all the heathens to convert.

  57. Re:Not really by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That's because it's a Catholic university and not an Evangelical Christian university like Liberty U. Catholics have long been very tolerant of other religions that way (they had some real problems back in the time of Galileo, but they've had centuries to improve), and have long been big promoters of education. Catholic grade schools are much the same: they take kids of all (or no) faiths and aren't real pushy about the religion angle.

  58. Re:Not really by onepoint · · Score: 1

    It might stem from the state you are working in. While the rules of conduct might apply, OSHA and other work-related rules do apply. but I am guessing that you were well educated and understand how to talk to people and listen, that's most likely why they are cool with you

    --
    if you see me, smile and say hello.
  59. Re:Not really by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

    She had no problems there, she drank the kool-aid willingly and my parents certainly did not force her (in fact tried to direct her elsewhere). But even she noticed how difficult it was not having been raised from birth in that...culture...for lack of better words. We were in fact raised baptist, but we had lived in many large cities in the country and had a somewhat larger perspective of the world.

    I really don't think you'd want to go there and just play ball. That particular school is maybe not quite the academic pillar that a few other religious schools are, but I'd still think carefully about merely agreeing to abide in any of them. There are almost always better options, and by bringing your money to them you encourage them.

  60. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, because you either get hyper-offended by all ideas and words that don't conform the the SJW code, or you are a hate-filled ass who only refers to homosexuals as 'fags' and would call his transgender sibling a sissy and tell him to man-up rather than using her preferred name and pronouns.

  61. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is not going there always an option? A friend of mine had hyper religious parents and only allowed a school like this or they wouldn't help pay in any way. Sure, paying entirely yourself is possible, but really makes things a lot more difficult. Not to mention a potential rift in the family it would cause. For some people this makes the decision on what to do tough, as all decisions have extreme negatives. Hopefully this is rare, but I'm not sure.

  62. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    That's what hir said!

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  63. Re:Never thought I would see PC in red state schoo by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Berkeley, the town, is as hardcore liberal as ever. Berkeley, the University, transitioned some years ago to overachiever central. Everyone over at Cal is too busy studying and working hard to get their science, engineering, business, and law degrees to have time for SJW-ism. UCSC has taken up the kookiness mantle lately. But they get less press because they don't have the historical notoriety of Berkeley.

    --
    Imagine all the people...
  64. Interesting that not all are liberal by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    It appears to be a combination of both conservative and liberal colleges. I would have expected it to be more 1 sided than split.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  65. Re:Not really by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

    Doesn't make it less OPPRESSIVE. Nothing to do with being offended. What did you run out of good arguments that fast?

    --
    Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
  66. Fantastic by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 2

    You're still not getting into the coven.

  67. You can yell "Fire!" in a theatre by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    You have the right to say anything. This is an unalienable right; it is not given to you by any authority. Authorities can oppress you but they can not take away your human rights... You simply choose to not exercise your rights due to your fear of the authorities.

    Yelling Fire is not the crime - you are free to do that and it should be legal if your rights are being respected. The crime is in causing a panic which harms people; which can be done by other methods (like by setting off the fire alarm.) It is also a crime to falsely report a fire (done by yelling, alarm, 911, etc.) You can say stuff at the airport too and they can choose to strip search you and detain you at their own discretion as well... The speech itself shouldn't be the crime.

    People who can not control their own emotions always resort to trying to control other people. Profanities exist because of the power YOU give them over yourself. Grow a pair and take some responsibility over your emotions. WIMPS can not handle being offended or intimidated - the younger generations seem to be progressing towards becoming hypersensitive.

  68. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is not going there always an option?

    Yes. Just because a choice is hard to make, doesn't mean it's not a choice.

  69. The list because it's not anywhere quick by dyslexicbunny · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ordered as presented, ranking not given. Read the article for why.

    Mount St. Mary's University
    Northwestern University
    Louisiana State University
    University of California, San Diego
    Saint Mary's University of Minnesota
    University of Oklahoma
    Marquette University
    Colorado College
    University of Tulsa
    Wesleyan University

    1. Re:The list because it's not anywhere quick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Left out:
      Berkeley,
      Harvard,
      Yale, .... well almost all crazy leftist colleges that have run away with logic and charge crazy tuitions and given profs and deans crazy amounts of money. Let's see, should we give ourselves a raise? Sure, let's do that... We need a parking garage too, and so on.

      Very few colleges that are not actually oppressive.

    2. Re:The list because it's not anywhere quick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      one actualy in my town, and has ALWAYS been ultra left so not sirprising

  70. Re:Not really by laie_techie · · Score: 5, Informative

    No, they don't. They have doctrinal statements for faculty and staff, and may have stricter conduct codes, but they are generally willing to enroll students of any faith/non-faith who are will to abide by the conduct codes

    I attended Brigham Young University (owned and operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). Tithing from the faithful subsidize students' education, so members of the faith pay a lower tuition (like how residents pay less at state universities). Faculty and students must sign the Honor Code and receive an Ecclesiastic Endorsement on a yearly basis. In essence, you promise to live up to dress and grooming standards, live the Word of Wisdom (no alcohol, tea, coffee, tobacco, or illicit drugs), follow moral rules (no extra-marital sex, no men in the ladies dorms [or vice verse] after midnight), etc. This does not exclude students from other religions - or even atheists - but most students are LdS.

  71. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

    I would suggest that you and your new sister sit down and watch some Portlandia, specifically the "Feminist Bookstore" episodes.
    The one where the character Carrie plays forcefully tells an HVAC contractor to stop saying "unit", as that word has a connotation for a male sex organ.
    Hilarious to the last.

    Nothing can let the hot air out of a PC Kop like comedy.

    If there is anyone in current American Culture who is "taking the piss out of" SJW's and the politically correct nightmare they have created for themselves, it is the writers and actors of Portlandia.

    God Bless Them!

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  72. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    One can be trans (or trans-supporting) without being one of your SJWs... your reaction, however, seems to match what would be expected if you had trained yourself to have a mental disorder... as the person was describing. Congratulations!

  73. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

    If she had transitioned to male it would be "hir".
    In this context it is "shim".

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  74. Re:Not really by JazzLad · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I attended & worked at a Catholic college; the head of the Philosophy department (of all departments!) was not Catholic (something Protestant, I do not recall specifically - well after the fact, he told me of being approached for the position - he was floored to be considered not being Catholic, but they told him they would rather have a better qualified non-Catholic than a less-qualified Catholic). A friend of mine in the nursing department was Mormon & I new various other people of various other faiths (I was Catholic at the time).

    That said, Catholics may be more open-minded than some deep-south Baptists (please don't flame me if you are Baptist in the deep-south - I have many friends that are as well, but institutionally IME they tend to think Catholics, Mormons and others are basically 'the devil'). YMMV, etc

    --
    "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
  75. Re:Not really by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...but most students are LdS.

    I took a bit too much LDS once...the pretty colors and the walls melting were fun, but man...it was a drag coming down off that stuff!!! Stayed awake for like 28 hours....

    ;)

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  76. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by ZeroSerenity · · Score: 2

    Could you please share some of the sources you got this info from? I would like to read them for myself.

    --
    For those who seek perfection there can be no rest on this side of the grave.
  77. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This might have something to do with the Church's official position (as clarified in events such as the second Vatican council) on how salvation works: you don't actually have to be a catholic to be saved. The idea is that only Jesus saves, and the Catholic is his instrument of salvation on earth, but the effect of salvation extends beyond members of the church to include (potentially) everyone.

    Catholics are not officially universalists, but (according to some famous Catholic apologists that I can't remember), they qualify as "hopeful universalists," in that it is completely consistent with catholic doctrine that God might wind up, at the end of time, saving everyone and leaving Hell empty (or He might not).

    So, the notion that "you are going to burn forever if you don't join my church!" simply isn't as strong in modern Catholicism as it is in many forms of modern Protestantism.

  78. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

    Or xi, or zi, or whatever made-up crap.

  79. Re:Not really by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Catholics have long been very tolerant of other religions that way...

    I wonder how tolerate a Muslim university would be?

    If caught looking at a girl walking by....chopping hands off as an easy first offense?

    :P

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  80. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And how are they going to prove that you did not believe in a deity when you filled in the form? It is not unheard of for people to either become religious later in life, or losing their faith (or even switching between atheist/theist several times), so just because someone is open about being an atheist today does not prove any wrongdoing. Short of someone straight out admitting that they lied when they filled out that form there's not much you can do.

  81. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's because it's a Catholic university ...

    That is so untrue and very bigoted of you. Liberty U is very tolerant of other views - as are most Christian Schools - being a core element of their beliefs. After all, didnt Bernie just speak there....

    The problem is folks like you who malign, slander and propagandize against Christians void of fact and reality. You are a shameful person and should apologize to everyone on ./ for your intolerant comments

  82. Re: Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow!! Slashdot is changing.

    A comment on a Catholic institution that wasn't an intolerant flame.

    Thanks for that.

    As a Catholic, it's rather refreshing to your words.

  83. Offended that others are offended? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Methinks the pundit doth protest too much.

  84. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by CODiNE · · Score: 1

    That's awesome, I'm going to generate myself a schizophrenic tulpa with PTSD.

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
  85. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Business and education are generally not held to the same standards.

  86. Re:Not really by operagost · · Score: 1

    With public institutions, we don't even have the "hyper-capitalist" option as you state. Our tax dollars are given to these schools whether we like it or not. A private school is not directly funded by tax dollars. THAT IS WHY.

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  87. Dangerous Space by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1
    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  88. The right to feel offended by jbssm · · Score: 2

    The problem in these instances is the one that is attacking all western society since the turn of the century. For some strange reason, people now think they have the right to feel offended and that people that offends them must be shut up

    There is this sense of self entitlement fed by the media going around, that if someone says something against any particular aspect of some social justice cause, you deserve some kind of punishment. You are essentially bared from contesting any kind of argument about any aspect of say, feminism, black empowerment, religion and a few other. No matter how idiotic is the specific pro argument for one of those issues, if you point that out, you are automatically dismissed and any public forum will do its best to shut you up.

    1. Re:The right to feel offended by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many have pointed to the increasing neoliberalisation of higher education. Going to university used to be (I'm told) about surrendering yourself to the environment and letting it shape you. Now though, with the onus on students being consumers first, they've adopted the 'customer is always right' philosophy and expect the environment to be shaped to their whims.

      So before long, you'll have a situation whereby not only are students being ill-prepared for life after education, they're actively conditioning themselves to be even less ready for it.

  89. Re: Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    as you said: they ARE getting an exemtion because of their stupid beliefs

  90. Re:Not really by ADRA · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sharia Law is to Muslim as Catholic is to Christianity. They are certainly tangentially based on the original source materials, but they took centuries of refinements to build up a set of strange nonsense rules that represent their original source version of things. Looking back at the rules they form, and one has to question why they were ever made. Plus, Sharia itself doesn't have a central authority to dictate, so maybe something like like the collage of baptist faiths would be a better analogy.

    Secondly, much like described above, since all Muslims don't believe in the Sharia, why would you ever assume that a Muslim university (especially in the US) would espouse it?

    --
    Bye!
  91. Re: Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So let them pay the same taxes as business.

  92. Re:Never thought I would see PC in red state schoo by KGIII · · Score: 1

    See the FIRE site. There are *hundreds* and *hundreds* of enumerated complaints and more being listed all the time.

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  93. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

    I like to call them "Social Justice Whiners." No need to embolden them with the word warrior in their moniker.

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
  94. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Unless she showed too much shapely wrist, I can't see why they would punish her...
    Oh, you meant, punish the *guy*? HAHAHA, that's funny. Muslims, punishing a guy for something involving a woman. Heh.

    You've got a great sense of humor - keep it up.

  95. Re:Triumph comic dog visitng non-oppressive colleg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I often won't watch videos, but in this case I'm glad I did. Spitting out the best bit for those like me:

    Filmed at the University of New Hampshire.
    "People in search of a safe space inside a safety school."

  96. Re:Not really by Thiez · · Score: 2

    Being a theist may be a fundamental belief, but I'm not sure the same applies to atheism. If the majority of humans believed in unicorns and I had to state that I believed in unicorns as well to get a job (which does not involve any equines, horned or otherwise) I wanted, I would happily lie about believing in unicorns without feeling I've "betrayed a fundamental belief".

  97. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I went from a religious high school to a public university; many of my friends went to religious private university instead. My university said "you're adults, act like it". And while we weren't really adults, we were free to start making real decisions about life and incurring real rewards and consequences. In contrast, my private school friends were kept in the same "cage of childhood" they had been in all while growing up. Some parents double-downed by requiring their kids to commute (not for financial reasons, but for control).

    Now, this was a pretty reputable religious university (at least locally)--not extreme like Liberty or BYU. They were willing to acquaint their students with the broader palette of the Western worldview outside their sliver of Christianity. They provided an honest liberal arts education, as far as I can tell, certaintly better than my own more technically focused curriculum (but then, my friends were mostly English majors). However, the cage was still there.

    I don't know if one approach (treating college kids as adults) results in better or worse outcomes than the other approach (treating college kids as children). More likely than not, it's complicated. Ultimately, I'm grateful that I took the former path (even though I had one or two big failures along the way), and that my parents didn't force me down the opposite path.

  98. Missouri professor Melissa Click Fired by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

    In better news, they fired that professor we saw in a few videos attacking journalists and police
    http://www.columbiatribune.com....

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  99. Bit of a slanted source there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey Slashdot how about not posting rightwing nonsense from Art Pope's pet think tank. What's the tech angle here, other than comp sci majors resent the liberal arts?

  100. Re:Not really by BitwiseX · · Score: 4, Informative

    Liberty U is very tolerant of other views - as are most Christian Schools - being a core element of their beliefs.

    Bullshit.
    From every job listing for Liberty

    Disclaimer Statement: Liberty University's hiring practices and EEO Statement are fully in compliance with both federal and state law. Federal law creates an exception to the "religion" component of the employment discrimination laws for religious organizations (including educational institutions), and permits them to give employment preference to members of their own religion. Liberty University is in that category.

    That particular entry I pulled out at random was for a Network Engineering job. If you aren't a Baptist you can't even plug in network cables there. I've personally known people who have lied about their religion to get a job there, and people who got rejected for being Catholic. Employees sign a "Way of Life" contract.

    Tolerant my left nut.

  101. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now that is racists (muslims being a race and all)!

    Everyone knows that is punishment for stealing a student's eraser. The punishment for getting caught looking at a girl walking by is to stone her. That should be obvious.

  102. Re:Not really by Shane_Optima · · Score: 1

    "That is why" what? That's why they're not allowed to be brought into this conversation?

    From TFA:

    * University of Tulsa: Private
    * Wesleyan University: Private
    * Colorado College: Private
    * Marquette University: Private
    * University of Oklahoma: Public
    * Saint Mary's University of Minnesota: Private
    * University of California, San Diego: Public
    * Louisiana State University: Public
    * Northwestern University: Private
    * Mount St. Mary's University: Private

    So, it looks like a 7 out of 10 were private universities.

    Besides, chispito didn't say anything about funding. His implicit thesis is that because students and faculty are forced to sign something when they enroll / are hired, we're apparently not supposed to talk about these totalitarian hellholes at all.

  103. the art of the twisted register by epine · · Score: 1

    SJW proclivities

    That expression is like mating a $50 straight man to a $5 funny man—Bud Abbott teamed with Rosie O'Donell, as scripted by Vince McMahon?

    Who needs scare quotes when you've got "proclivities" near to hand?

  104. Re:Not really by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most places don't ask such questions

    Most places are not religious institutions.

    I'd love to see those idiots if people were allowed to refuse them service because of their religion.

    This is already true. A church is free to refuse service to muslims. A mosque is free to refuse service to christians.

  105. Preparation by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    The main job of a college is to prepare you for the work world, and in the workplace you CANNOT say what you want. So, what's the problem?

  106. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait, you have a younger brother who "transitioned to female" and you refer to your brother as "she"? You must be one of those mushy-brained SJWs that people complain about.

    Absolutely perfect comeback! And the vote-down is the height of cluelessness.

  107. Re:Not really by chispito · · Score: 1

    You're right. I meant to reference the codes of conduct for students and the statements for the faculty. They are different animals but still will result in students typically not being able to say whatever they want without repercussion.

    --
    The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
  108. Re:Not really by unixisc · · Score: 1

    You don't get to force ANYBODY to do ANYTHING they don't want to for ANY reason. That includes accommodating assholes such as you.

  109. Re:Not really by gfxguy · · Score: 2

    No, you would only have betrayed your integrity.

    --
    Stupid sexy Flanders.
  110. Re:Not really by Dareth · · Score: 1

    LSD

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  111. Calling the "Fighting words" doesn't change it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You still have hate speech laws, and have ever since the USA had its own legal system. Calling them "fighting words" doesn't stop it being hate speech, but you don't know the word exists because you're a dumbass enough to think they're different.

  112. Re: Not really by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

    Perhaps the Catholic colleges partially exist to minister to the students, whereas Protestant colleges mainly exist to train Christians for ministry?

  113. Re: Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As in "no jews"? Didn't that end in 1945?

  114. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are obviously aware of how frequently trans people are beat up or killed. Never mind yelled at agressively. So, how can you say that it's "self-inflicted"? How often does someone have to encounter random people threatening to hurt them on the street before worrying about it a lot is a reasonable, sane response? Developing PTSD is clearly not a good response, and the brain stuff is interesting, but they are *not* making this stuff up.

    Blaming the victim?

  115. Re:Not really by sanzibar · · Score: 2

    You are confused. Giving a hiring preference to ones Religion is no different than giving Veterans a hiring preference and certainly does not imply that one is not tolerant.
    Sometimes I am surprised to hear about some of the speakers at Liberty. They have hosted a lot of speakers with a variety of backgrounds and beliefs and you never hear about any nonsense or disrespect. Contrast that with some of your "progressive" minded schools where conservatives are protested, interrupted and out right banned....
    My observation is Liberty places more value on free speech than most so called "liberal" institutions. But perhaps you missed the content of the article. Me thinks that is what they are trying to point out.

  116. Oppressive Colleges by Foundling · · Score: 1

    In each of the situations listed, somebody was punished for speaking against racial equality, religious equality, or civil justice. This is not an unbiased study, and it concludes by saying that "mid-level" administrators have too much power. The study skipped the professor fired for observing that Muslims, Christians and Jews worship the same Creator; why wasn't that important? The study also skipped anybody punished for asking for equality; this gets punished every day, especially in traditionally Republican states, but it's not mentioned. This study is also focused on "mid-level" administrators; conservative governors try to change the course material in state colleges all the time, likewise parents; so there is a "high-level" problem and a "low-level" problem, but the article focuses on "mid-level". It appears to me that if I wanted to teach or be a student, the author of this study would have no problem with me being banned from a school for being gay, for having a Catholic background, or for having served honorably in the military: the author would celebrate or at least ignore this, but he will protect as sacred the right of students and faculty to raise "all gays must die" banners: I perceive that the author is a Fox News viewer and that the article's basis is dishonest.

  117. Re:Not really by Pseudonym · · Score: 2

    That's what happens when you send a Vulcan to Berkeley.

    --
    sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
  118. Re:Not really by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

    The problem is folks like you who malign, slander and propagandize against Christians void of fact and reality.

    I don't see how you can make that accusation against Grishnakh from what they wrote. Unless you think Catholics aren't Christians, that is...

    --
    sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
  119. The top ten worst by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

    Most places are not religious institutions.

    A number of the ones on the list are, though not all.
    From the shorter version ( http://www.popecenter.org/comm... ) the ten most oppressive colleges were:
    1. Mount St. Mary’s University in Maryland ("recently thrown into turmoil by president Simon Newman’s firing of two faculty members who criticized his idea that the school should reduce its freshman class by “drowning some of the bunnies” (i.e., culling out academically weak students).")
    2. Northwestern University,
    3. Louisiana State
    4. University of California—San Diego
    5. Saint Mary’s University in Minnesota
    6. University of Oklahoma
    7. Marquette University
    8. Colorado College
    9. University of Tulsa,
    10. Wesleyan University

    So, the religious universities on that list are Mount St. Mary’s University, Saint Mary’s University, Marquette University, and Wesleyan University. Four out of ten. Doesn't seem too bad, but only 20% of the US Universities are religiously affiliated, so it's about twice what you would expect.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  120. Re: Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is more of that open loving tolerance of other's beliefs and deeply held moral convictions that are the common subject of lectures from the Left. If only we poor uneducated simpletons could only harness the prowess of your argumentation technique maybe, we too, might discover the peace of mind your reasoned, and entirely free from anger filled, words match. Bravo, Sir. Bravo!

  121. Re: Not really by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    I wouldn't call them "Protestant", I'd call them "Evangelical", and I think the distinction is extremely important. Just look at the word, "evangelical"; those sects tend to be far more pushy about converting people and pushing religion than the non-evangelical sects (which include both Catholicism and many mainline Protestant denominations like Anglicanism and Presbyterianism). So in a sense, yes, those evangelical schools are training kids for ministry, they're training them to be good evangelicals.

  122. Re:Not really by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    He's an evangelical, so yes, he thinks Catholics aren't Christians. It's a pretty common trait with them.

  123. College is for creating the next gen of SJWs by blindseer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've been in college before, studying engineering, and I didn't see much "indoctrination" like many claimed that colleges have. I saw hints of it with groups speaking on campus, flyers hung on billboards, but nothing in class. While in engineering I felt largely insulated from the liberal nonsense that I was told would surround me in college. In engineering we were there to solve practical problems such as accurately simulating a circuit, estimating the yield of a manufacturing process, and properly encoding a message and then decoding it on the other end.

    My how things have changed now that I'm studying statistics and computer science. In one statistics text an example was made on the Bush v. Gore election fiasco in Florida, it showed how Bush "stole" the election. That same text likes to give examples on how global warming is affecting the ice pack, water levels, and so forth. If the other examples had not tipped me off on the left leaning authors I might not have thought much about the study they highlighted on HPV vaccines. If they are going to pick on Presidents named Bush, oil companies, then why not pick on those that advocate abstinence and put an HPV vaccine study in there.

    I had a computer science professor spend half of a class lecturing us on how war is bad. She had to know that it is quite likely that half of her class will end up working in the "military industrial complex" that she was speaking about. Not all of them are going to be coding iPhone apps and online shopping websites. Quite a few of them are going to be designing crypto communication systems, deadly accurate navigation, ballistic prediction software, and what not.

    I've had other courses that discussed probabilities, algorithms, and so forth like these statistics and computer science courses. What they didn't do is work politically loaded examples into the coursework. Examples on statistics and probability while in engineering involved problems of fruit flies interbreeding, noise in a communications channel, cards/dice/coins, letters in the alphabet, and just generally examples that were practical to getting a job done or curiosities of physics.

    Why give a statistics example on Bush v. Gore? Why not choose something like people's favorite ice cream flavor? Perhaps give examples in astronomy, biology, a manufacturing process. Instead we get to look at climate change, election results, income inequality, gender roles, and so on.

    These statistics and computer science courses are just as much about creating the next generation of social justice warriors as it is about teaching practical skills.

    At least my math and music courses haven't tried to indoctrinate me into a way of thinking. At least not yet. Courses on calculus, matrix algebra, and numerical analysis might not be conducive to social justice indoctrination. My music lessons are on folk songs and Christian hymns, which might have something to do with a long shared history between "Western" music and Christian churches. All the instruments we commonly play, and the way we note music, in the "Western World" draws from a time and place where Christianity was prevalent. If you are going to learn to play the piano then you are not going to find a lot of pieces to play that the "diversity police" can impose upon you. While I would not be opposed to learn some music from around the world at least I know I won't be considered "insensitive" for wanting to play a Christmas hymn for my semester end recital.

    There are some things I'd like to discuss in class but I fear I might be considered being "micro-aggressive" if I speak up. This can be stressful and I feel like I have to just shut up and keep my head down or I might find myself being retaliated against. Oh, I'm a white Christian male that also happens to be a veteran of the US Army. Being that I'm quite tall I kind of stick out in a crowd, people remember me.

    Since I'm considered disabled because of an injury while in the Army I am considered a "minority", it's not a very visible disability, I just walk with a bit of a limp. I get the e-mail announcements from the "office of diversity" or whatever its called that invite me to certain events. I have not yet gone to any events because I doubt I'd be welcomed.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:College is for creating the next gen of SJWs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A couple things...

      Would the "diversity police" impose some world music on you if you studied percussion instead of piano? Nearly every culture has some variation of beating on a drum. I've met several people that studied percussion instruments in college but none of them commented on the kind of music they played. I also noticed that even though playing the drums can be quite different than playing a xylophone both of those instruments are in the "percussion" department.

      Why would a disabled veteran not feel welcome at a meeting for minority students? Let me guess, white, male, hetero, Christian, and... a Republican? If you are short and dark haired maybe you could pass as Asian.

    2. Re:College is for creating the next gen of SJWs by beni1 · · Score: 1

      makasih artikelnya admin,,,bermanfaat bagi banyak orang dan mudah di pahami,,di klik jugaArtikel kesehatan terbaru

  124. Re:Not really by Thiez · · Score: 2

    My integrity is very accommodating in this regard, it only really pays attention when it matters. My attitude towards mythical creatures falls in the same category as white lies.

  125. Re: Not really by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    I'm an ex-Catholic. I guess I could have mentioned that one of the priests at the Catholic schools I went to went to jail for molestation, as did the priest at the church I went to in high school, as did the bishop who did my Confirmation.

    I try to call things as I see them. My Catholic (grade) school experience wasn't bad, and luckily I never got molested, and I don't remember a whole lot of religiosity in Catholic school. I seem to remember some of the kids not being Catholic too. Aside from the few instances where we had to attend Mass for some reason, and them warning us not to play Dungeons and Dragons (some of you may remember the hysteria about that), I really don't remember any religion in the other classes.

    However, the Catholic Church does need to come to grips with the fact that having a celibacy policy for its priests is inevitably going to lead to the sexual problems that we've all seen with their priests. Normal, well-adjusted people are not going to want the job, and if anyone was somewhat healthy when they started, after too many years of denial they're going to act out one way or another.

  126. Re:Not really by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Horrified that they found ten worse?

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  127. Re:Not really by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    I don't know if one approach (treating college kids as adults) results in better or worse outcomes than the other approach (treating college kids as children). More likely than not, it's complicated.

    Yep, anything dealing with humans is complicated; it's why psychology and sociology are such unscientific fields: it's basically impossible to do any rigorous, controlled experiments with humans.

    But as for which is better or worse, I guess that depends on your values and your desired outcome. If you want your kids to break free of religion, then sending them to state school is definitely better. If you want your kids to stay brainwashed in your religious sect, the other approach is better. If you want your kids to be happier people in general (based on some measure of "happiness"), we'd have to do a big study. We could very well find out that in general, the religious approach is better; just look at Mormons, they seem to be really happy and successful people, despite their cuckoo religion. I suspect this is exactly why we have religion in human societies in fact: because it enforces a social order and makes people happier, in general. The problem is that when they're rigid, anyone who doesn't conform is going to be very unhappy, whereas in open, secular or at least pluralistic societies that tolerate different religions or no religion, the non-conformists are more able to be happy because they're not being oppressed and persecuted, though it seems to make the religionists less happy because they like having that order imposed on them and feeling like they're going with the program.

  128. Re:Not really by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

    We let our overly vocal wack jobs talk out of turn, shake our heads, and go on with our day, not sure why we would stop anyone else...

  129. A review by whom? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For f***'s sake, get some spine and live your life, children. Would you like us to chew your food for you too?

  130. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's a distinction between fearing rape and fearing the word "rape". Please go reread GP's post before commenting further.

  131. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Rakarra · · Score: 1

    That's sort of the definition of deviance, isn't it? Something that's out of the norms.

  132. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The strict Muslims who have punishments like that (e.g. Saudi Arabia) don't have boys and girls in the same school. Also, they don't punish men for sexual harassment or rape of women, they punish the women for being raped. So your example assumes things are better than they actually are.

  133. No, the electoral college is not an equalizer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Senate is enough to serve the purpose of giving all states value. The electoral college runs counter to the will of the people, and made sense only before instant communication.

  134. There is an answer to bad speech by blindseer · · Score: 1

    The answer to bad speech is not controls on speaking, it's more speech. However the liberals out there don't want more speech because that means that logic wins out over feelings. The liberals' answer to "bad" speech is "shut up".

    Andrew Klavan explains this well:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:There is an answer to bad speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was a funny video, but do you have a link to the one where he explains it WELL?

  135. Colleges don't educate, they parent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That anything of value is gained from the current university experience is an accident. You needn't look any further than freshman live-in rules, or mandatory tutorial sessions or math labs to see quick examples of parenting. Making these resources available is one thing, but making them mandatory is parenting.

    Suppressing free speech fits with the parental mindset that you're there to control or shape behavior, and not necessarily engage in conversation or enlighten.

  136. Creighton forbid student from starting conservativ by schwit1 · · Score: 1
    http://www.thecollegefix.com/p...

    For the second time in as many semesters, the Student Life and Involvement Center (SLIC) at the Jesuit institution rejected Justin Carrizales’ application to start a chapter of Turning Point USA, a nonpartisan student organization dedicated to free markets, limited government and personal responsibility.

  137. Re: Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Both institutions will throw (other people's) money at a problem to make it go away but people in education tend to value principles over money.

  138. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by ultranova · · Score: 1

    It turns out that one can indeed teach one's own brain to develop PTSD over any kind of stimuli at all. All you need to do is to foster a sense of being threatened every time you encounter the stimulus of your choice. For example, you start thinking about people trying to beat you up, of menacing predators pouncing, of natural disasters closing in on you, whenever the stimulus is there. You can also jsut go and read detailed testimonies of aggressions - the more expressive and vivid, the better.

    You do realize this means all those Twitter rape threats are an actual hazard to health, since they may induce PTSD? It's hard to read a message saying someone's going to rape you without thinking about someone raping you, at least at that exact moment, and thus reinforcing the mental image. And that means sending someone a threat - or any kind of description of them coming to harm - is as much of an attack as a fist to the face.

    In other words, your own research shows that political correctness - or enforced civility - is both justified and necessary since uncivility damages people's mental health. So... epic fail :D.

    --

    Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  139. Re:Not really by Shane_Optima · · Score: 1

    Mod parent up. I can only assume the mods wrongly believe that only public universities were examined (actually, private universities make up two thirds of the list.)

    How is it flamebait to point out that most of the ultra-conservative religious universities in this country are probably considerably worse than the ones mentioned in the article? BYU is a large and fully accredited university and academic freedom there is abysmal. FIRE did list three religious schools, but they were all Catholic.

  140. Re:Not really by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

    Even Galileo didn't have problems solely because he disagreed with doctrine. He had problems because it was the middle of the Reformation so "problems with doctrine" started a war that would kill 30-40% of Germany's population. They original 1616 trial was an over-reaction to the Reformation, but it did result in an agreement from Galileo to stop teaching the doctrine of Heliocentrism.

    And when he broke it in 1632 he broke the fuck out of it. It was a dialogue between three characters. He had two smart characters who agreed with him, and a not-smart character whose arguments were quotes from the actual Pope. Not-smart was named "Simplicio," which is usually translated as "Simpleton," but that doesn't quite get the connotation right. It's more like Retardo. And by 1632, when he put out the book, the Thirty Tears War was in full swing.

    So they put him under house arrest and told him to stop teaching people that the Pope was a moron. He may have been able to get off that second trial, but (as you may have figured out from the whole mess) he was a fucking asshole so literally zero people were willing to show up at the trial and say "the Bible may say the Earth is the center of the universe, but when I look through my telescope that is not what I see." Heliocentrism, after all, is a theory that was invented by a Catholic Priest and had been taught since the 1540s without opposition from the Church hierarchy.

    Meanwhile, the Protestants were in full ISIS mode, had forced the trial of Galileo in the first place by strongly implying a Church that tolerated Copernicus' Heliocentric teachings was clearly un-Biblical and therefore not Christian, and were occasionally so ardent that they killed Protestants for being the wrong sort of Protestant. Altho, to be fair, the Catholics in Germany weren't better.

    But a few years later Protestants changed their minds, decided that Biblical literalism was silly, and therefore that everything the Catholic Church had done to appease their Biblically-literalist asses was actually why Catholicism was bullshit.

    And now scientists, raised in a White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant society, repeat their propaganda whenever it suits their purposes.

  141. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in which nerds on slashdot pretend they are medical professionals.

  142. FOR PROFIT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Colleges and universities are for-profit nowadays....for profit of their tenured staff. So ,why would this be shocking?

  143. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interesting read, could you please link some sources, would like to make this point to some people I know as well :)

  144. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Jesrad · · Score: 1

    Or maybe I'm just not (that much of) an asshole.

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    Maybe we deserve this world ?
  145. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Jesrad · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check this out.

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    Maybe we deserve this world ?
  146. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Jesrad · · Score: 1

    Nope, it's done over the internet so the "receiver" of the stimuli is in a safe an controlled environment. It is the perfect setting for desensitization. So, quite to the contrary, getting SJWs all riled up over perceived threats jut by discussing topics that make them uncomfortable can be therapeutic to them.

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    Maybe we deserve this world ?
  147. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Jesrad · · Score: 1

    The funny thing is, I'm the one who got gang-beaten, not her. I healed from the trauma rapidly. And then she transitions and develop that unhealthy mentality to the point where she gets 'triggered' over a word. The interpretation I posted above is mostly derived from observing our opposite evolutions, enlightened by running through the process of healing from that sort of damage.

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    Maybe we deserve this world ?
  148. Re:SJWism as an acquired a contagious mental disor by Jesrad · · Score: 1

    Well it's a pretty convoluted train of reflexion, I'm afraid not much of it is sourced. As I mention in my other replies here I was gang-beaten one evening of last century, and healed from that with cognitive behavioral therapy. Following on that I solved anxiety-caused back pain using the research of Dr John E. Sarno (good insight about the probable physiological mechanisms of somatization), and later on I had to confront a couple of people with narcissistic personality disorders (in a professional setting) and wanted to learn more about what make them tick. This led me to current neuroscience of the brain and especially the roles of the amygdala and the various parts of the cingulate cortex - how they manage the perception of threats and rewards to ourselves and to others. I've also been active in a support group for children of narcissistic parents and quite a few of us have noticed strong parallels between the more rabid/crazy of SJWs and the many stereotypical antics of Ns. And now I have a vivid example of a SJW 'cranked to eleven' in my transgender sister and her immediate entourage, who was raised in the same family and environment as I, as an enlightening comparison point.

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    Maybe we deserve this world ?
  149. Re:Not really by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    Your description narrows the possibilities down to, like, 52 states...

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    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  150. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "giving preference to group A" and "not accepting anyone outside group A" are not quite the same thing

  151. Re:Never thought I would see PC in red state schoo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To be fair, Berkeley wasn't mentioned in this list. It is surely a haven of liberalism (yay!) with a tendency towards thought-policing (boo!) but does not, at least, appear in this article.