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New "Super Battery" Energy Storage Breakthrough Aims At $54 Per KWh (cleantechnica.com)

mdsolar writes: BioSolar and the University of California, Santa Barbara, reinforced a previous international patent application by jointly filing applications in the U.S., Canada and Japan for something called a "multicomponent-approach to enhance stability and capacitance in polymer-hybrid supercapacitors." The BioSolar energy storage approach solves two core problems of conventional lithium-ion battery technology. One is the cost of materials, and the other is the limited capacity of the cathode compared to the anode. BioSolar has solved the cost and capacity problem by developing an inexpensive polymer for the cathode. "Our novel high capacity cathode is engineered from a polymer, similar to that of low-cost plastics used in the household. Through a smart chemical design, we are able to make the polymer hold an enormous amount of electrons. The estimated raw materials cost of our cathode is similar to that of inexpensive plastics, with a very high possible energy density of 1,000 Wh/kg." BioSolar's research also indicates that the new polymer enables batteries to charge and discharge rapidly while far outlasting the lifecycle of conventional lithium-ion energy storage. According to the company, conventional batteries drop down to 80 percent of their storage capacity after 1,000 charge/discharge cycles. When the new polymer is used in a supercapacitor, BioSolar's lab work has demonstrated a lifespan of 50,000 cycles without degradation.

159 comments

  1. So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    When we combine that with fusion solar beamed to the ground from space our energy problems should be essentially solved. I wouldn't want to be an oil company right now.

    1. Re: So happy. :) by jovius · · Score: 1

      Even oil companies don't want to be oil companies, if they wish to bring profits in the future to the owners and shareholders.

      The same big names will provide clean and renewable energy in the future. They have the resources. But sure, the companies that won't change will die out.

      I'd expect the energy companies to obtain new tech and patents and build business on them rather than trying to suppress the inevitable.

    2. Re: So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what my dear friend do you believe plastics are made from?

  2. Re:So happy. :) by 110010001000 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Wake me up when that happens. I'll bet it will be the same year we have a commercial fusion reactor. Only 20 years away!

  3. wake me... by Spazmania · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wake me up when they have batteries actually built and selling at that price point. Until then it's just bluster: there's no way to know what industrial challenges will creep in and drive the price up.

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    1. Re:wake me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wake me up when they have batteries actually built and selling at that price point. Until then it's just bluster: there's no way to know what industrial challenges will creep in and drive the price up.

      I know, who cares about scientific research and progress, we are instant gratification consumers god dammit, if we can't buy it at Costco right now it has now value or interest. This should be posted to a site that cares about news for geeks.

    2. Re:wake me... by 110010001000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      More like who cares about a press release of a company trying to get funding.

    3. Re:wake me... by Nutria · · Score: 3, Insightful

      who cares about scientific research and progress

      Some of us are old enough to have seen thousands of these "in 10 years" vaporware press releases for stuff that never gets put in production, and so have become quite jaded.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    4. Re:wake me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm with you. When have we ever seen new advances lead to better products? Not often I'd say.

    5. Re:wake me... by Beezlebub33 · · Score: 4, Informative

      All the time. You just don't see it in press releases and it doesn't appear here on /. Take a look at the cost curve for batteries. It's not flat, it's been decreasing significantly as the technologies have been integrated and production volume has gone up. For example, read this discussing the decreasing costs for EV and hybrid vehicles. its one of the primary reasons that the Bolt will less expensive. 5 years ago, it would be twice the price.

      --
      The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
    6. Re:wake me... by ganv · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, that is right. Reminds me of EEStor which every now and then repeats their promise of transformative super-capacitors based on their granted patents. But it is just vaporware. Hopefully this time is better, but anyone who is not a fool knows to expect most of these press releases to come to nothing.

    7. Re:wake me... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Some of us are old enough to have seen thousands of these "in 10 years" vaporware press releases for stuff that never gets put in production, and so have become quite jaded.

      Doesn't mean that nobody will ever build a breakthrough battery....

      They're not claiming anything impossible, over unity, or against the laws of physics. Try keeping your jaded old mind open.

      --
      No sig today...
    8. Re:wake me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Research and progress has already stopped since it is patented. If they are not the ones who are going to produce the batteries, than nobody will. And looking at their website, I don't think they even make any products. So they are just a research facility that patents technology, but for who? They have done the first research phase but don't seem to try to create a marketable product.
       
      Someone else might have to do the last steps in engineering and research. Maybe it still needs a lot of research and lots of engineering which costs lots of money. Than they have to make the production lines and find a market for the product and try to find customers.
       
      Once this is done, multiple millions will have to be invested before seeing the first revenue. But since someone else owns the technology, most of the profits go to the patent holders. That is unfortunately how this kind of research works. It is research to stifle progress.

      Now I might be wrong about my assumption. Maybe they have found a way to make 'super batteries' and trying to attract new investors with releasing this press release so they can continue their research until they can finally create their super battery. But I've seen too many of this kind of companies that just create patent after patent, hoping that someone else will create a product with a technology they have patented. Of course a super battery is what we need to make electric cars and solar power more desirable. When you can patent that super battery technology that someone else will make, you will be a winner.

    9. Re:wake me... by Idou · · Score: 1

      Are you sure that you are jaded or just willfully ignorant?

      Show me another technology (besides wind and solar power) that has improved this quickly in the last 10 years.

      --
      Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
    10. Re:wake me... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Available at Costco - that's boring, I heard about that 20 years ago when it was in development and got a copy from an Indiegogo developer 5 years ago - this is NEWS for nerds?

    11. Re:wake me... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      who cares about scientific research and progress

      Some of us are old enough to have seen thousands of these "in 10 years" vaporware press releases for stuff that never gets put in production, and so have become quite jaded.

      Some of us a wise enough to have seen thousands of these "in 10 years" press releases for stuff that made it into production just fine. You're just picking out the failures to suit your agenda. I'm typing this post on a device that was built upon hundreds of press releases promising thinner, better, faster, using less power, as all the key points.

    12. Re:wake me... by Nutria · · Score: 1

      press releases for stuff that made it into production just fine

      You're acting like I said that it'll never happen. I didn't. I'm just with OP: wake me when it happens.

      built upon hundreds of press releases promising thinner, better, faster, using less power

      From major companies, or from from unknowns?

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    13. Re:wake me... by Nutria · · Score: 1

      Try keeping your jaded old mind open.

      You seem to have the wrong idea about what the word "jaded" means.

      jadÂed
      ËjÄdÉ(TM)d/
      adjective
      tired, bored, or lacking enthusiasm, typically after having had too much of something.

      Nowhere in that definition does it deny that something can happen.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    14. Re:wake me... by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      I know, who cares about scientific research and progress, we are instant gratification consumers god dammit, if we can't buy it at Costco right now it has now value or interest.

      This is about making extraordinary claims without evidence commensurate with claim and being surprised or upset when people elect to filter it as noise.

      All of these battery breakthrough articles are the same. They talk about hopes rather than current reality and actual accomplishments, they spend no time honestly addressing downsides or risks to success of technology and are heavily biased toward attracting attention of investors.

      The following is an advertisement not an informative article about scientific research and progress.
      http://www.biosolar.com/super_...

      Wake me up when substantive information is available. Notice they don't even claim to have produced even a single working battery.

    15. Re: wake me... by mspohr · · Score: 0

      Every day there is a company touting a new revolutionary battery technology. None of these have come to fruition. As Elon Musk said, "send me a sample and we'll evaluate it". Lot's of research making claims they can't back up. We may be waiting a long time for a breakthrough in batteries

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    16. Re: wake me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You, last century:

      'Google'? What a stupid name. I'll stick with the big guns like Yahoo. These little nobodies never produce anything that matters.

    17. Re:wake me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Till then fork lift batteries work quite well.

    18. Re:wake me... by Spazmania · · Score: 1

      Who cares about scientific research and progress? I do. But this wasn't a story about science, it was a story about price. Nobody is worse at predicting price than researchers who discover science but don't industrially produce anything.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    19. Re:wake me... by dsmatthews9379 · · Score: 1

      Give me a nudge too, when you hear back about it, I want to buy about $10,000 worth of them if they really perform that well.

    20. Re:wake me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The search for investors or marketing is pretty much the only reason any information gets out of the lab before you can buy it in the store.
      Slashdot would be reduced to social studies and politics if it weren't for those.

    21. Re:wake me... by Nutria · · Score: 1

      How much of that is snazzy cutting edge tech, and how much is existing tech at much higher economies of scale?

      Asked a different way, what do the kW/kg and time-to-charge curves look like?

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    22. Re:wake me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Naw, it means it was HEARD OF. You have a few peoples (like two thirds or more of Earth), interested in denying anything THEY HEAR OF. Or becoming FAMOUS. If they just find it is there, they say nothing, but if they HEARD FIRST OF IT, they will combat it.

    23. Re:wake me... by q4Fry · · Score: 1

      jadÂed
      ËjÄdÉ(TM)d/

      I've been mispronouncing it all this time!

    24. Re:wake me... by Idou · · Score: 1

      How much of that is snazzy cutting edge tech, and how much is existing tech at much higher economies of scale?

      I don't know if you can separate "cutting edge tech" from "economies of scale." Economies of scale allow you to economically adopt technologies for production that could never have been used before (i.e. "cutting edge") due to limited scale. Think of a dozen guys putting together a car vs a robotic production line. The biggest gains these day's from economies of scale ARE technological (think volumes reaching a point that make "automation" worth it). Generally speaking, economies of scale results in the increase of the potential ROI in bringing new tech to market, regardless of what "type" of tech (snazzy?) that is.

      Asked a different way, what do the kW/kg and time-to-charge curves look like?

      Hasn't Tesla put to rest kW/kg and time-to-charge for vehicles? The Model S has comparable range as an ICE, so why do we need more kW/kg at this point (unless you are thinking of air travel)? Also, do you refill your car everyday with gas? Why bother charging outside when you can just charge while you sleep (all you need is enough range to last one day and you never have to even think "gotta fill her up. . ." as this happens while you are sleeping). Accordingly, kWh/$ is the only thing that matters for vehicles at this point and it is coming down very quickly. Stationary applications have the additional "# of cycles over life" factor, which is also increasing quite nicely.

      Consequently, battery tech is moving super fast (again, point me to something besides solar or wind that is moving faster) and in the areas that are most important.

      --
      Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
    25. Re:wake me... by Nutria · · Score: 1

      Think of a dozen guys putting together a car vs a robotic production line.

      (Slashdot needs strike-through.)

      Think of a three guys assembling a car vs. Henry Ford's assembly line: very little high tech, but very much economies of scale.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    26. Re:wake me... by Idou · · Score: 1

      Think of a three guys assembling a car vs. Henry Ford's assembly line: very little high tech, but very much economies of scale.

      I agree, over a hundred years ago economies of scale were not so technologically focused (though, I feel there is a strong argument that the assembly line, itself, is a technology that only makes sense at a certain volume, but I digress. . .). Do you have any examples more recent than a century ago? Sure, there are volume discounts, financing cost reductions, etc. . . but technology related CapEx is by far #1 these days. At least for similarly quickly advancing technologies (solar, wind, portable computing, etc. . .).

      --
      Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
    27. Re:wake me... by Nutria · · Score: 1

      I think you're not understanding the point of "economies of scale": you have to do the same thing over and over. That's why robots are so useful.

      But repeatedly changing the underlying technology (like shrinking process fab) doesn't allow you to amortize the costs of the factory.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    28. Re:wake me... by Idou · · Score: 1

      In microeconomics, economies of scale are the cost advantages that enterprises obtain due to size, output, or scale of operation, with cost per unit of output generally decreasing with increasing scale as fixed costs are spread out over more units of output.

      Maybe I do not understand your definition, but I have provided the definition above that I do understand.

      Intel is the perfect example of having "economies of scale" and, in the past, has been willing to invest in new technologies that others would or could not. R & D is a fixed cost that benefits from the economics of being spread out over more units of output due to increasing scale.

      If you wanted to make the point of "do the same thing over and over," I think you should use the term: Learning-by-doing. Of course, I would immediately respond that "economies of scale" is playing a far greater role than "learning-by-doing" in the battery industry right now.

      --
      Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
    29. Re:wake me... by Nutria · · Score: 1

      with cost per unit of output generally decreasing with increasing scale as fixed costs are spread out over more units of output.

      IOW, you're doing the same thing over and over.

      Intel is the perfect example of having "economies of scale"

      And each iteration of a factory pumps out millions of units using the same process (barring the occasional tweak).

      Of course, I would immediately respond that "economies of scale" is playing a far greater role

      Isn't that what I originally said?

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    30. Re:wake me... by Idou · · Score: 1

      IOW, you're doing the same thing over and over.

      I agree it is impossible to explain my point to someone who thinks: economies of scale = learning-by-doing. This will not be my first failure to try to teach rudimentary economics to a /.-er. . .

      And each iteration of a factory pumps out millions of units using the same process (barring the occasional tweak).

      Nor do I have time to explain the semiconductor industry to you. . . there are plenty of resources online. Saying that Intel's Tick-Tock process just requires an "occasional tweak" is laughable to anyone with even a very basic grasp of the matter. You are really missing out on the pinnacle of human technological development if you see things that way. . .

      Isn't that what I originally said?

      Only someone who thinks economies of scale = learning-by-doing would think that.

      I feel like at this point our discussion can be summed up with you think that economies of scale = learning-by-doing. This is simply false, and I believe I have done my due diligence to alert you to this defective thinking. Good day, sir. . .

      --
      Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
    31. Re:wake me... by Nutria · · Score: 1

      Saying that Intel's Tick-Tock [wikipedia.org] process just requires an "occasional tweak"

      I did not write that. I wrote "each iteration of a factory". If the tick and the tock require different fab equipment (and thus huge new capital expenditures), then they are different iterations of the factory.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    32. Re:wake me... by Idou · · Score: 1

      I SAID GOOD DAY!

      --
      Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
    33. Re:wake me... by Nutria · · Score: 1

      I didn't force you to reply. Honestly.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
  4. I want to believe. by Narcocide · · Score: 1

    Sounds too good to be true. I'd like to be wrong about that though.

  5. Aims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Like open source projects aims but misses.

    Call me when they hit the target.

    1. Re:Aims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Like open source projects aims but misses."

      Like your posts, aims but is totally wrong.

  6. Manufacturable? by BaronM · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yet another battery breakthrough article for what is essentially a lab demo. While I have not particular knowledge of whether or not this technology is manufacturable, it seems like an awful lot of battery breakthroughs don't really pan out once it comes to building them in to actual products.

    1. Re:Manufacturable? by ickleberry · · Score: 1

      Perpetually 10 years away, along with the solar panel to fill it. We'll have year of the Linux Desktop about 9 years before you can buy one of these batteries on eBay

    2. Re: Manufacturable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I've had solar on my roof for 3 years...so your "perpetual 10 years" figure has been empirically disproven.

      Within 10 years, it will be cheaper to buy an electric car with a 300 mile range than it will to buy a gas car with equivalent trim level. I will personally bet you $100 on that.

      Yeah yeah I can already hear your followup argument "But I drive 3,000 miles a day each way to work and my town doesn't have electricity". A $20,000 300 mile range electric car won't work for everyone, but it will work for 90+% of Americans. I couldn't care less if it's optimal for you or not.

      It's optimal for me. I'm already planning to buy a Tesla model 3 ($35K, 320 mile range) when my current car needs replacing, which should be right around the time the 3 comes out.

    3. Re:Manufacturable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd laugh if these "developments" weren't so pathetic. Why are we RESEARCHING this stuff when we could just be BUILDING the stuff? Sounds like a waist to me and you, but we smrt.

    4. Re: Manufacturable? by ickleberry · · Score: 1

      Ah but that's oldskool solar panels, not the ones we have been repeatedly promised over the years. You'd be better off putting that 35k towards a nuclear bunker if Trump gets elected. Now that it transpires they didn't even use this technology to build a battery 10 years might be on the optimistic side, however a good few of the improved battery technologies promised in the late 2000's should be appearing on the market in the next few years

    5. Re: Manufacturable? by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      I will personally bet you $100 on that.

      Coming from an AC, that means a lot.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    6. Re:Manufacturable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like a waist

      Uh-huh

    7. Re: Manufacturable? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 0

      But where to plug that electric car? The town has electricity, but I've not seen outlets for each and every space in underground parking lots yet. (not in US)
      It's those sorts of things where the car is only $20,000, that's nice. Oops, forgot to tell you, if you want to actually use it you'll need that $400,000 house, so that your can park your car inside your own property (or even in the house itself) and use your own charger.
      Cost of car + house : $420,000.

    8. Re:Manufacturable? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      But a lot of the battery breakthroughs do pan out. Remember what laptop batteries were like in 2000?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    9. Re:Manufacturable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like a waist

      Uh-huh

      My lab is working on a way to power a car from stored body fat, so you aren't far off. Imagine getting thin and getting around and not paying for gas.. Two birds, one stone. No diabetes.

      FYI the marketing on this is brilliant.. due to the dual nature of the powering of this mode of transportation our marketing department has called it the Bi-Cycle. Brilliant!

    10. Re:Manufacturable? by f97tosc · · Score: 1

      Yet another battery breakthrough article for what is essentially a lab demo. .

      Actually it sounds like it is not even a lab demo, but a theoretical estimate.

  7. Worth remembering batteries not needed by mdsolar · · Score: 1

    This is a cool development and it may set back fuel cell adoption, but batteries aren't a crucial technology. http://news.slashdot.org/story...

    1. Re:Worth remembering batteries not needed by SNRatio · · Score: 1

      In a scenario where only power coming directly from a national grid is considered, natural gas is expensive, and significant financial and political hurdles have been overcome, batteries are not crucial. But outside of that scenario there are still tremendous gains that could be realized by better and cheaper batteries.

    2. Re:Worth remembering batteries not needed by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      We could generate power 100% with coal and use batteries to smooth the peaks!

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  8. Re:So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Fantasies for addled-brained children.

    http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the...

    And what does "fusion solar" even mean?

  9. All vaporware, they never test this battery. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    As usual they "created" a battery on paper. After testing this 'amazing' polymer anode, they claim, combined with graphite cathode a magical-battery could be plausible. Nothing to see here folks its just vaporware. This is just more bull to keep their gravy train going. If they wanted real information they could simply have added the graphite cathode and published real world performance.

    1. Re:All vaporware, they never test this battery. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it's just that easy. Really!

  10. Whew! by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 2

    Through a smart chemical design, ...

    So relieved to hear they didn't use a dumb chemical design. /pedantic

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  11. So what's the deal with this? Is it a lie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ok, so what's the deal with this 'battery breakthrough'. Is it a lie? I ask the provocative question because I've heard a *lot* of "battery breakthrough" stories (they are almost as common as solar panel breakthroughs), and yet ....new batteries that store gobs of power? Example: a few years ago, there was a 'super battery breakthrough' here, that is supposed to be a wildly better way to manufacture batteries where the cathode is so much better than before. And if you note the date of the article, its more than a couple of years ago. And super cheap, super powerful batteries sure look like the batteries you bought in 1970. And either the whole thing is a dud, or someone came along, bought the technology, and is sitting on it. Now it could be argued that either of those is possible, but certainly the net effect is either of those. Now we get another story about 'super battery technology' that promises blah blah. So what are the odds that in 5 years your batteries will look exactly like the ones you have now? I think pretty darn good.

    1. Re: So what's the deal with this? Is it a lie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you serious? Exactly how many lithium polymer batteries were you buying in the 70s? Batteries have changed tremendously, and continue to get cheaper and better each year.

  12. There is a catch. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At $54 per kWh capacity and more than 50000 charge-discharge cycles without degradation, storing 1 kWh in these batteries would cost far less than a cent. At an energy density of 1kWh per kWh, these batteries would make electric cars a no-brainer. If they had that kind of battery technology, they'd shut up about it and disrupt (did I say that right) both the oil industry and the electrical grid. They don't have that kind of technology.

    1. Re:There is a catch. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You got nonsense because you misread their claim. An uppercase K means that it's $54 per KELVIN-watt-hour and you get to choose the energy/temperature tradeoff. So for $54 you get 1 Wh at 1K, or alternatively about 3.4 mWh at room temperature.

    2. Re:There is a catch. by Immerman · · Score: 2

      Except the 50,000 cycle number is for supercapacitors, which suffer none of the chemical reactions that cause breakdown in chemical batteries. I can't think of any reason it would even be mentioned except for intentional deception by implication.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    3. Re:There is a catch. by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      If a supercapacitor has an internal discharge rate of 1% per hour, can it be called a practical battery?

    4. Re:There is a catch. by Immerman · · Score: 1

      I would say no - a battery stores power as chemical energy. A capacitor as electrostatic potential. Two completely different devices. Might make a decent battery substitute in some situations, but not many consisdering supercaps typically have... I think it's 30x less energy density than lithium ions.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    5. Re:There is a catch. by aXis100 · · Score: 1

      Supercapaitors store charge though both electrostatic and chemical potential. It's called electric double-layer capacitor, and they sit somewhere between conventional capacitors and batteries.

      That said it's annoying the article mentioned capacitors and I expect that kind of claim invalidates the rest of their hype.

    6. Re:There is a catch. by aXis100 · · Score: 1

      p.s. I sincerely hope I'm wrong though.

    7. Re:There is a catch. by dbIII · · Score: 1

      No because that would be like calling a car a capable horse :)
      If it's used for the same purpose it's still a different thing.


      You've reminded me of a superhero movie where the villian was secretly building a giant capacitor plant instead of a power station. The scriptwriters did not get how awesome such a thing would be and how we could get away from the artifact of base load with such a thing and instead just follow demand without offering discounts for night use etc. Pump storage does that sort of job but is very lossy.

    8. Re:There is a catch. by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Huh. Learn something new every day.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  13. Re:So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How can such a naive, information-free post be modded informative?

  14. Re: So happy. :) by dfghjk · · Score: 1

    Oil companies are the most profitable businesses on earth. They are all delighted that they are oil companies. They can be other things, too, just so long as the opportunity cost isn't too great.

    Oil produces more than just energy.

  15. Re:So happy. :) by NEDHead · · Score: 1

    All solar is fusion...

  16. ......and it's only 5 years away and always, alway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ......and it's only 5 years away and always, always will be.

  17. What next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What i'd like to see with stories such as this is follow up. What happens next? How far along are the prototypes? How soon will production begin? Are there any nonsense holdups? The process of discoveries finally making it to usable products is far more interesting than lab discoveries.

    1. Re:What next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They just do research to create patents. The next thing is sit on it and wait until in the unforeseeable future when this article/press release will be long forgotten an innocent entrepreneur creates a battery that uses technology that can be vaguely recognized in this patent description and than it is profit time.

  18. Re: So happy. :) by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The same big names will provide clean and renewable energy in the future.

    Maybe not. If batteries are cheap, and solar panels are cheap, then I can just have my own batteries and panels. So why do I need to buy energy from a "big company"? In my neighborhood, I already see dozens of houses with solar panels. Imagine how many will have them when they actually make sense!

  19. Re:So happy. :) by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

    I would think it would still be useful with other, more realizable power generation methods. I suggest harnessing the power of unicorn farts as a stop-gap measure.

  20. Re:So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Correct. And wind is caused by heating of the atmosphere by sunlight, therefore we should call them "fusion wind turbines". Also, solar panels right here on this planet must now be called "fusion solar panels". As well as hydro dams, which operate from rainwater, which is also caused by sunlight, therefore we should call them "fusion hydroelectric dams".
    Are you always this irrelevant and stupid, or just on the weekends?

  21. Re:So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well then oil is also fusion because without the sun there would be no fauna and flora that would ultimately evolve in oil.

  22. Re: So happy. :) by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Funny

    >And what does "fusion solar" even mean?

    Fusion solar makes a sound like this: "whooosh".

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  23. Re: So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    3D printers. Duh. Only a revisionist LUDDITE would believe otherwise.

  24. Re: So what's the deal with this? Is it a lie? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    The question is: Exponential growth, for a time anyhow, like CPU power/(dollar or watt) or diminishing returns like thermal efficiency of a heat engine.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  25. Re:So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We do have fusion solar beamed to the ground from space. It's called the sun.

  26. vapourware. again. by bheading · · Score: 2

    Another day, another "breakthrough in energy storage tech" vapourware article.

  27. This battery and your solar panels by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gives you everything you need to cheaply kiss your electric company goodbye you pick and save rejects.

  28. Re:So what's the deal with this? Is it a lie? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

    I remember a somewhat similar question : why don't we do 5nm semi-conductors right now instead of wasting time with 28nm, 22nm, 14nm etc.?

    Well I'm not sure what the answer is but I would say it is too hard, or even impossible.
    Even with $10 billion cash in hand, it's going to take many years to build that 5nm fab.
    Going from lab experiment to mass production of a "super battery" seems easier in comparison but will still take time, a ballpark figure given for industrialization of something is 5 years. Perhaps many of the battery breakthroughs end up impractical because of some detail, or because someone's not betting $100 million on it, or because more classical batteries improve a bit or drop in price in the mean time.

    Where's bubble memory? It was once thought to be the greatest computer memory ever. Which "super battery" or "ultra cheap battery" to bet on?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    In all cases you can't expect commercial availability 1.5 year after some university paper.

  29. Faster recharge? by blindseer · · Score: 2

    "BioSolar's research also indicates that the new polymer enables batteries to charge and discharge rapidly while far outlasting the lifecycle of conventional lithium-ion energy storage."

    Can these batteries recharge at a rate comparable to refilling my truck with gasoline? I doubt it. I can refill my truck in about five minutes, there is no way a battery can transfer that kind of energy in that amount of time, even if we account for the poor efficiency of an ICE to the high efficiency BEV and adjust energy needed accordingly.

    What really holds back electric vehicles is not just the limited range alone but the recharge rate. If I can recharge a BEV at the same rate I can refill my dinosaur burning truck then I would not have a problem with them. A five minute stop every so often on a road trip is usually not an issue for people, people typically have to stop anyway for biological reasons. A four hour stop, or even a 30 minute stop, can be a problem for people.

    Assuming we can find a battery that can take a charge comparable to the energy transfer of a roadside gasoline pump the problem then becomes creating a system to move that many electrons safely on something that must move down a road.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:Faster recharge? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am free because I'm not a scared little wiener that need a gun.

    2. Re:Faster recharge? by AnotherBlackHat · · Score: 1

      What really holds back electric vehicles ...

      EVs are about 0.75% of the US market right now.

      Every improvement in EV technology will improve their share, but I think the low hanging fruit is price, not charge time.
      Drop the price from $55k to $20k, and you'll sell a lot more than if you drop the charge time from 5 hours to 5 minutes.

    3. Re:Faster recharge? by jandjmh · · Score: 1

      There is a large and very consequential difference between a 30 minute stop and a 4 hour stop. My wife has a Tesla S80, and a lunch stop at a supercharger station halfway towards Reno from the SF bay area makes the trip easy. The stop is usually more like 40 minutes, and that gets the car pretty full. If it took 4 hours to do the same, we'd take our ICE vehicle instead.

    4. Re:Faster recharge? by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      As long as the vehicle can recharge overnight in the garage, on the driveway or at the curb, recharge time is practical for must users. And we're already there. We've been there for some time.

      It's not about recharge time. There are two remaining factors that limit market share, and only two:

      o total energy storage
      o price

      Right now, in both areas, IC beats batteries, and batteries beat ultracaps (aka supercaps in the case of D.C. comics fans.)

      Were that to change, that's when EVs will break into the market in a competitive manner, barring actual use of force by governments.

      It can change five ways:

      o Oil prices could rise
      o battery prices could fall
      o ultracap prices could fall
      o battery storage could exceed oil
      o ultracap storage could exceed oil

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    5. Re:Faster recharge? by PIBM · · Score: 1

      Humm, I think you haven`t closely followed battery technologies. I can easily charge my lipi batteries at 10C, and the safety limit is at 20C. With adjustment, ie starting at 20C and slowing down when it`s getting close to full, I fill them in about 4:30 - 4:40 depending on how low it started. On 2S5A batteries that mean the 1KW power supply is handling out about 900W. Sadly, my brother own this charging station, mine is limited to 300W / 20A but at least it can charge 2 2S at 20A.

    6. Re:Faster recharge? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many times a day do you have to refill your truck?

    7. Re:Faster recharge? by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Normally twice every week but if I'm traveling then it can be twice per day. A tank of gas can carry me about 300 miles, which also happens to be a bit short of how many miles I am willing to drive in a day. Add in that I would not wish to run the tank dry before filling it up and I might stop for fuel three times in a day.

      In my truck I can go from any level of fuel, including bone dry empty, to full in five minutes. If in a BEV it might be possible to go from 10% to 80% in thirty minutes or less, if the battery isn't too hot. "Topping off" a BEV too often can damage the battery, attempting to charge while the battery is too hot can damage the battery, attempting to charge too quickly can damage the battery. This only adds to the "range anxiety" of the currently quite limited range of a BEV.

      I have some level of "range anxiety" in my truck due to it's relatively small tank and higher fuel consumption rate, at least compared to my previous vehicles, but I cannot imagine owning only a BEV because of it's limitations. I suspect that a very high percentage of the BEV owners in the USA also own another ICE powered vehicle.

      Assuming I wanted to own only a BEV and not change my driving habits significantly I'd have to know that on any long trip that there would be a quick charge station at the same locations where I'd like to stop to eat, for wherever I may go. That way I could leave home in the morning, drive for 4 or 5 hours, stop to eat and recharge, then continue driving for another 3 or 4 hours, and then have a place to recharge at my destination or an overnight stay. Rinse, lather, and repeat for two or potentially three days if I'm making an especially long trip.

      Potentially we could see this range anxiety disappear if only there were places to recharge a BEV at nearly everywhere someone might stop on a lengthy trip. Restaurants would need recharge points at nearly every parking spot if they wish to have clients that are not locals. Since locals might use those recharge points as well the recharge points would have to be plentiful or they would be nearly worthless. Hotels would need them too to get BEV owners to stay. This might be less of a problem for infrastructure since they'd likely have more control on where people would park.

      For BEVs to become more than an oddity we'd need a very significant shift in infrastructure, or a battery that can be recharged in a short period so that our current filling stations can merely replace a pump or two with BEV chargers.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    8. Re:Faster recharge? by cerberusss · · Score: 1

      What really holds back electric vehicles is not just the limited range alone but the recharge rate.

      I don't think it works like that. You recharge your electric car at home, at night. Every morning, it's fully charged. If you occasionally make trips that aren't within your EV's range, then some manufacturers, like Nissan, have contracts where you can pick up a ICE rental car for free (with a limit of a couple of weeks per year).

      Of course, if you routinely make trips longer than the EV's range, you're totally right.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
  30. Re: So happy. :) by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Oil companies are the most profitable businesses on earth

    Wow, that explains why the stock price of Ultra Petroleum has gone from 70 dollars to 40 cents.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  31. Re: So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah, you mean it's actually a fusion wind turbine?

  32. Kelvin per Watt per hour? KWh... what is that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is that?

  33. Re:So happy. :) by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

    Natural Gas?!?! I already use that to heat my house, I suspect not all of it comes from unicorns but they charge me like it does.

  34. The proof can cook my pudding. by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I really hope that this is not one of those things where they have a tiny postage stamp sized things freshly pulled from a beaker that can power an LED. Keep in mind that I can stuff some metal wires into a lemon and power an LED.

    I want to see a demonstration unit that is doing something where I can calculate the power output. So a 5 KG battery boiling from room temperature a known amount of water. That is something where the energy efficiency is fairly high and the physics are boringly hard to fake.

    I am sick of these battery breakthroughs not having any "proof" I am OK with a 10 minute video that shows one of their batteries doing something such as the boiling water thing sped up with a clock in the background. In fact I am far more interested in that than some MBA wannabe just sitting in a chair talking about how this technology will make people immortal on Mars.

    But 5 minutes of blah blah, with 10 seconds in a lab showing some unknown motor or bulb running for a few seconds is not proof, it is nothing. Again, I can do stuff with a lemon. What will not happen is a few more developments that lets me drive a Tesla with that lemon.

  35. Re: So happy. :) by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    How cheap would it have to get to become reasonable to cut yourself off completely from the grid?

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  36. Re: So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then why the subsidies?

  37. Re: So happy. :) by sumdumass · · Score: 1

    This will change once he cuts himself of oil for transportation. But the number you are looking for is somewhat subjective. Some people are willing to pay more because of ideological reasons and some will count any hassles as a barrier.

    For me, cheap enough will be below current prices and i can have the system paid off within 5 years with the ability to quickly and easily repair anything myself or have someone do it for me within a day or so. That's what I have now with electric bills between $50 and $100 a month. Anything from the meter to inside i fix, anything from the meter to the generation source, they fix. If I cannot run to the local hardware store and buy a part and replace it, it isn't cheap enough.

  38. Status quo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A lot of posters on Slashdot seem to have a cynical love of the status quo. "I've seen promises of breakthroughs before.The actual product is many years away." But science is full of incremental progress, dead ends and false hopes. We should celebrate the effort and the possibilities. There is more to life than 9 to 5 sys admin.

    (my suspicion is that system administrators are, by nature, conservative. Debbie downers...)

  39. Re: So happy. :) by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    In general, you also need to consider the cost of reliability.....how much intermittence are you willing to tolerate?

    The real win will be when people in shanty-towns in third-world countries can afford to have their own electricity system.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  40. Re:The Dems are most pleased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bookmarked.

  41. Re:The Dems are most pleased by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

    While I want to agree with you, he's also pulling people who have never voted before in fairly large numbers. THAT's his, ahem, trump card. It's unlikely he wins but if he can pull in new votes he may not need as many people from the pool of normal voters.

    --
    People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
  42. Magic! by gweihir · · Score: 1

    And likely just as real. It is high time that any and all patent applications require delivery of a working prototype and for extraordinary claims such as these, independent creation of the device by a 3rd party based on the patent application only to verify the patent application is complete and truthful. It should not be possible to patent non-extraordinary things in the first place.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  43. Re:The Dems are most pleased by fyngyrz · · Score: 0

    I have extremely high confidence in the constant and dependable level of apathy demonstrated by (the) hoi polloi. :)

    But we will see. This is (obviously I hope) just my opinion.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  44. Re:The Dems are most pleased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hahahaha swing votes are thinkers.. oh man, that was the best laugh I've had in awhile. Of course anyone who votes for a major party is a "thinker", they are soooo smrt.

  45. Re: So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Australia it already makes economic sense, we were targeted with the launch of home batteries like Telstra and Enphase because we'll be the first country to hop off the grid on mass due to our incomptent governments. They are even debating trying to make the death spiral worse and get more people off grid by trying everything you shouldn't to get them to stay, including large fines based on historical and projected use if you leave the grid. Never occurs to them they need to write off the grid networks debt because they gamed the system so hard from bad laws that there is no possible way we would ever get back our investment as tax payers.

  46. Bush league confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When they confuse batteries with super capacitors, I smell bullshit.

  47. Re: So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I see them on Craigslist for 1.00 a watt now put a had full of those on your heat pump in the day even without a battery at night do you have any idea how big a hole that knocks in your electric bill.

    How much more fucing sense can something make.

  48. So Take That EESTOR by pollarda · · Score: 1

    Beat you to it!

  49. Re:So happy. :) by vivian · · Score: 1

    Who needs fusion? I'm already generating 25-35kwh per day off my roof, and I use about 20kwh power overall - the problem is, I only use about 10kwh of it during the time it's getting generated - the rest is getting put on to the grid for which I get a measly 7c/kwh credit - and I am buying that power back at night time for 25c/kwh. If that's not bad enough, I also get charged 7c per day for the provlege of selling my power to the utility at 7c/kwh.

    I'll take 20kwh of batteries please - I have $1080 in cash waiting for you.

  50. Re: So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oil companies are 2nd and 7th in profits
    http://fortune.com/fortune500/

  51. Re:So happy. :) by camperdave · · Score: 1

    Except for all the fission bits, and the oxidation bits, and the matter/antimatter annihilation bits. Don't fool yourself that these aren't going on to some extent or another.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  52. Re:So what's the deal with this? Is it a lie? by CrashNBrn · · Score: 2

    As of today, you can get at least 2800mAH in a single AA rechargeable NiMH battery. Back in the olden days a nickel cadmium AA might of had 400mAH.

    You don't SEE battery advances. The battery form-factors rarely change. They just get denser (more energy), faster (charging) and cheaper.

    Many rechargeable batteries can get to 80% in a very short period of time (minutes).

    I think many people forget how long it used to take to charge phones and other devices. Hours. Overnight. Not minutes.

  53. Re: So happy. :) by camperdave · · Score: 1

    What makes you think you can cut yourself off of the grid? There are laws against that sort of thing.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  54. Re: So happy. :) by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    There are laws against that sort of thing.

    Really? Why?

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  55. Re: So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's cheap enough now for some people. I generate 50% of my power via PV with a payback period of about 12 years (3 down, 9 to go) and my house is not ideally situated (East facing roof, built in the 40s with poor insulation, tons of windows)

    The major factor keeping me on grid is the expense of batteries. I could double my PV install and generate 100% of needs, but I'd still need batteries on top of that.

    $54/kWh would let me install 100 kWh of storage for $5400. Compare that to musks power wall. Big difference.

  56. Re: So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's even better than that. I had 5kW of solar panels installed on my roof and now I don't even run my A/C nearly as much as I used to. Funny thing about converting sunshine to electricity - it directly reduces the amount of sunshine converting into heat. Now I finally understand the first law of thermodynamics!

  57. Re: So happy. :) by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    The major factor keeping me on grid is the expense of batteries. I could double my PV install and generate 100% of needs, but I'd still need batteries on top of that.

    Exactly.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  58. Re:So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The word fusion isn't limited to being used for nuclear fusion.
    In the context of beaming energy to Earth I would assume that fusion means combining sunlight from a large amount of mirrors into a single point.
    By not having a single high energy beam going down but multiple each one doesn't have to be lethal for anyone that happens to come between.
    Only the surface area where the energy is extracted will be extra hot.

  59. Re: So happy. :) by camperdave · · Score: 1

    Because "You need power for smoke and carbon monoxide detectors", or "You must be connected to the sewer system", or "You cannot hoard rain water", or some such nonsense.

    In reality, it's just that Uncle Sam and Mayor Quimby need their cut.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  60. Re:The Dems are most pleased by dbIII · · Score: 1

    True, it's looking like Reagan all over again in terms of popularity but far more scary in terms of what Trump is saying. The only upside is Trump knows he's just spinning bullshit with things like Mexico paying for some sort of wall and all the rest of the blatant salesmanship.

    Our enemies in the middle east who take Trump's word as being real probably think Bin Laden has won and America has doomed itself. America is not doomed if Trump wins because the batshit insane suggestions are just "spin" and he'll act like all the other born to old money crony capitalist Republicans instead of some sort of dangerous radical.
    Expect something like Baby Bush's administration except maybe Trump will turn up for work more often.

  61. Re: So happy. :) by dbIII · · Score: 1

    It depends where you live. For some people I know it was 2002 since the utility wanted thousands to run a line in. Now it's looking like it's going to happen in the suburbs in some areas due to blatant price gouging.
    It may be expensive to go offgrid but it's starting to get to be very expensive to stay on the grid in some areas, especially when you get conflicts of interest with governments having electricity companies as a major source of revenue (eg. in Australia).

  62. Re: So happy. :) by dbIII · · Score: 1

    I suggest you enrol to vote and maybe do something about it instead of putting up with that shit.
    Land of the free my arse. Don't need to wear a seatbelt so have the right to die stupid but you can't have a water tank? If you all got off your backsides and voted those few that play at politics couldn't put such things over on you.

  63. how to detect BS science by Goldsmith · · Score: 2

    First, do the people talking about the science get their units right? Forget mixing imperial and metric, do the words and the measurements match up at all?

    Energy density is energy per volume. Wh/gal, Wh/L, MJ/L, or something like that.

    Specific energy is energy per weight. Wh/lb, Wh/kg, MJ/kg, or something like that.

    They're reporting an "energy density" with units of "specific energy." Are they doing their comparisons well if they don't understan what they're looking at? Have they done the measurement properly?

    Maybe this is a great invention, but this wasn't ready for publication or press release.

    1. Re:how to detect BS science by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      First, do the people talking about the science get their units right? ...

      Ok, you have to look past that. Here we could very well have a situation where there's a *Super* Genius talking to a Reporter - someone that couldn't get a real job most of the time. At Maryland, if you flunk out of everything else, you can be a journalist. The dumbest of the dumb. So to me they're like the anti-science people. It's wonder reporting - If they get it right, it's a wonder.

      I stopped looking into this stuff a long time ago. It's nothing, or if it's something it involves some really bad chemicals. Eventually they end up in places they shouldn't killing all kinds of people.

      1) Green
      2) Cheap
      3) Stores a lot of energy

      Pick two.

  64. Re: So happy. :) by amiga3D · · Score: 1

    Where do you live that you have to connect to the grid? I know a guy who keeps his milk in an ice cooler. He doesn't bother with any electricity if it's not in a battery. You know, use of electricity commercially began in the late 1800s. My grandfather was the first in his family to have electric lights. Millions of people lived without it even then. I can see a day coming where millions will live without it again.

  65. Re: So happy. :) by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Good point.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  66. Re: So happy. :) by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    ok, I see you have trouble recognizing context lol. I meant the power grid, since we're talking about power.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  67. Re:So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks promising...and somewhat closer than fusion power.

  68. Re:The Dems are most pleased by haruchai · · Score: 1

    "Trump can't pull sane republicans; and he can't pull democrats either"

    There aren't enough "sane republicans" left to populate Rhode Island and even if they were numerous, they'll vote for the nominee.
    There's an old saying that accurately describes the parties - "Democrats fall in love; Republicans fall in line"

    --
    Pain is merely failure leaving the body
  69. Re: So happy. :) by haruchai · · Score: 1

    Florida or parts thereof is such a place - http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/ar...

    --
    Pain is merely failure leaving the body
  70. Re: So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If batteries are cheap, and solar panels are cheap, then I can just have my own batteries and panels. So why do I need to buy energy from a "big company"?

    Batteries and solar panels both come with long term environmental costs. Like most manufacturing processes around the world today, there are toxic by-products generated, which need to be disposed of.

    Most people are completely clueless about this: they have no idea that ordinary goods like cell phones and desktop computer are produced using chemicals that are hard to dispose of. It's not the fault of the engineers, who tend to be pretty interested in finding better (i.e. cleaner) ways to do things, but the problem is nevertheless there.

    The solar system batteries will also have toxic waste implications when they fail (sooner, rather then later), and the panels will as well (later, rather then sooner). There are also costs associated with maintenance (including the costs of getting the workers and the tools to the site): nothing you install on your house will ever be entirely maintenance free.

    In short, solar systems aren't ever going to be cheap, no matter how far the price comes down. The hidden costs may come to greatly exceed the purchase price, especially if we run into a "tragedy of the commons" situation.

    Of course, environmental considerations also apply to energy supplied from a "big company".

    We need to decide, as a society, which set of environmental costs is more acceptable, or whether we'll support both, and what the rules will be for who can do what.

    In some ways, it is easier to regulate the "big company", provided society stops believing the propaganda nonsense that regulation somehow equals socialism (instead of being a necessary part of a healthy capitalist economy). But at the same time, lots of abuses of basic rights by the "big companies" of the world are a well documented aspect of 20th century history, and seem the be continuing full speed ahead into the 21st century.

  71. Re: So happy. :) by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
    You'll still be buying batteries and panels initially from someone. and there will be a (smaller) market for maintenance and/ or repair.

    Hay merchants used to provide many kilos of food every day to every propulsion source in the land. Then, as new transport methods developed, some morphed into selling coal (for railways), wheels (for wagons), or mineral oil (for internal combustion engines). And some people who remained selling hay for horses, went out of business.

    If Shell (to pick an example) chose to bring out a well packaged battery+15sq.m+controller package that would take someone 90% off the grid, then their marketing know-how and engineering expertise (don't forget - these companies have large engineering know-how. A sensor and metering package on a wellhead that ran off it's own solar panel + battery might save several thousand dollars/ year of costs, which would make a lot of sense to a company with 100,000 oil wells) could well make it a very attractive buy. Even more so compared to a foreign company like Texaco's package.

    We have noticed how Shell has been morphing to a gas company over the last decade or so. Reduced lift cost.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  72. Re:So happy. :) by mcswell · · Score: 1

    There are no Dilithium crystals in our Sun. Maybe in the Klingon star, but not ours.

  73. Re: So happy. :) by mcswell · · Score: 1
  74. Re:The Dems are most pleased by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    Look at history. No Democrat has succeeded another democrat since Harry Truman. I don't count LBJ because of the shooting thing with JFK. He was installed, not elected. Then he was simply re-elected. In fact, Truman doesn't count either, he succeeded Roosevelt when he died in office. So certainly no modern Dem has succeeded another Dem. Reps succeed Reps all the time. In fact it's just about expected. GW Bush stunk up the place so bad, he broke that.

    Bad choices all around. A despotic pathological liar - Hilary (there certainly seems to be enough out there to say this), a Socialist without a clue (I'm not sure how this guy manages to pay for his own lunch)- Sanders, then the 3 ring circus that is the Republican party (hurry, hurry hurry, step right this way. Now showing the big guys ).

    The way it is right now Trump will be the next Pres. I'm as sure of it as I was that Obama would be the next one in 2008. Of course, he was.

    The country deserves a whole lot better than either party can provide. Feel like I'm just listening to the music on the deck of the Titanic. It'll be over soon.

  75. Re:The Dems are most pleased by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

    The only problem with that is GWB was largely kept in check by the last vestige of the old GOP guard in the Senate. They didn't do crazy shit.

    And now the Senate is as crazy as the House was and the House is beyond loony toons. That means Trump would have to start vetoing GOP crazy bills and I don't really see that happening as often as would be necessary.

    The only silver lining is that Trump might cost them the Senate (if the SCOTUS obstruction doesn't by itself).

    --
    People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
  76. Re:The Dems are most pleased by dbIII · · Score: 1

    The only problem with that is GWB was largely kept in check by the last vestige of the old GOP guard in the Senate. They didn't do crazy shit.

    That "old guard" were pushing to invade Iraq for years and finally got a chance to do it when some Saudis led by a guy given shelter in Afganistan got up to no good. Sounds crazy to me. There is far crazier but I think things will be stuck at that level. It's best to remember that a lot of the really crazy shit is about throwing a spanner in the works when somebody else is running a government, so if they end up as "the dog that caught the bus" they just won't know what to do next such plans. Expect plenty of jobs for cronies and keeping seats warm while pocketing cash.

  77. Re: So happy. :) by camperdave · · Score: 1

    Oh, I recognize the context. However, that context fits into a larger context. It is becoming illegal to not be interfaced with some government mandated corporate monopoly or another somewhere along the line - be it power, or water, or sewage,or whatever. You must be trackable For Your Own Safety(TM)

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  78. Re: So happy. :) by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Out in the country where I used to live, you can dig your own well, deal with sewage yourself......but in the middle of the city, I kind of understand not being allowed to do that.......

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  79. Re: So happy. :) by camperdave · · Score: 1

    Add Canada to the list.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  80. Re:The Dems are most pleased by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    The way it is right now Trump will be the next Pres. I'm as sure of it as I was that Obama would be the next one in 2008.

    I'm just as sure he won't. Trump is making his way forward in the Republican process with a small number of passionate supporters. Here are the numbers for eligible voters that have voted Trump:

    o IA: 2.0%
    o NH: 9.7%
    o SC: 6.5%
    o NV: 1.8%

    That's not a set of numbers that points towards electability.

    My guess is that it will be Clinton, because she has the big money people behind her, while Sanders does not. Although there is an outside change that Sanders might get it -- he's doing amazingly well, considering how off the US's historical political path his ideas are. The only way a Dem win might not come about, as I see it, is if the Republicans can field a reasonable candidate -- and all indications at this point is that they are not able to do so.

    As for Dem following Dem, Obama has overseen a great deal of good, and if one closes one's eyes to the screaming of the crazies, it's pretty obvious. And he pushed for these things, and saw them happen, in the face of incredibly obstinate and poorly thought-out opposition from congress. From cracking down on the credit card companies to seeing some of the batshit religious prejudices against gays finally legally excised to bringing healthcare to millions and millions of those who were previously locked out of the system, the upshot is that for most people, he's been Dear Leader during a period when things have gotten better -- after Bush and his cronies shat all over everything, nearly destroying our economy.

    Obama's been there through, and in some cases been the cause of, some awful things as well; but this is true of all presidents so far, and probably will remain so. For most constitutional issues, he's been poor-to-terrible in what he has said and what he has encouraged; he's still having us make war that benefits no one that isn't a recipient of the monies funneled to the MIC; and he is definitely guilty of "being president while black", something that drives many of the most idiotic US citizens right over the edge (and many of those are Trump supporters.)

    For many of the biggest issues - the economic recovery, medical care, improvement of conditions for the majority... those are places where his presidency looks very good to anyone who actually understands what has occurred. So my thinking here is that he's paved the way reasonably well for a Dem succession. Well enough. Whereas Bush left a mess that has yet to be really cleaned up, congress in its Republican guise has been both obstructionist and foolish (and currently suffers some of the lowest approval ratings ever), and Trump is a moronic clown, pulling moronic citizens to his banner - and no one else. It only takes a couple of listens to what he is saying to realize he is speaking nonsense. Anyone who is a fan after listening more than once is truly stupid. And you see, that's not how the Gaussian falls out. Nor do the numbers supporting Trump point towards any possible victory. This trifecta of Republican fail combines to create a very low probability that they can take the presidency.

    But again, IMHO. We will see.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  81. This article is not completely honest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The supercapacitor mentioned is just that and it is 1/3 the storage density of current lithium ion technology. That makes it somewhat impractical. Even though the recharge rate and number of discharges are amazing the sheer size of the battery would be impractical unless further improvements are made. However, such a battery may find many applications outside of cars and if further improvements can be made it could be good for cars drastically reducing the cost. Who knows maybe there is an alternative car where the battery is bigger and heavier but because it can be charged quickly and used almost infniite number of times it would be practical.

  82. Re:The Dems are most pleased by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    Not impressed with your numbers. Small numbers voted for Obama as well. He managed to get elected on "hope and change." What change? Never said. I heard a glimmer of hope from I think Rubio today. He actually started to talk more like Trump. Probably too little, too late.

    Hillary, I have a feeling she'll be indicted soon. Besides, I understand she has suffered a couple of strokes on the road and I understand she's showing signs of Alzheimer's. I think that was actually published someplace (alzheimers). I can't find it anymore due to all the articles on her wanting to find a cure for it, and her personal connection to it. Matter of fact, google "Hillary clinton stroke". Looks like a lot of concerns about her health. Smartest thing she could do is just bail out of the race, otherwise the decision may be made for her. She doesn't have to be President.

    You give Obama too much credit. He'll go down as the worst President in US history. Carter, the previous worst has even said so. Economic recovery? Yea, that shows me you have no understanding of how economics works. I understand this may sound insulting as the idea was presented to me back in the 1980s on business tapes. Real economists predicted there would be a crash around 2009. 40 year cycle. Sure as crap, they were right. Understand this has nothing to do with who runs congress, the WH, etc. Has to do with birth records. Those retiring. The other arguments are for useful idiots. Obama employs a great deal of useful idiots to spread BS. Economics is probably the least understood concept out there. Most people can't even understand what a million is.

    His real work was never allowing a new budget to be passed. That's right, the last budget that was passed was when GW Bush was president. Press says nothing about this, other than a small note perhaps. The one with the big bailout. That's why we have around a $20T debt. Add in his Obamacare, that's around another $60T in debt. It'll take down the country. He's also bringing in uneducated people like no tomorrow. Especially from Muslim areas. Well I could go on, won't. Of course, this isn't racist, this is fact. Facts that a lot of people can't handle. Look into it, you'll get mad.

  83. Re: So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Constant usage needs constant supply and reliability so the grid is easier to use: simply plug. If you turn it on and off, you may switch to batteries. A mix solution IS better overall.

  84. Re: So happy. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are a terrorist. While there are Humans, there will be electric power light. Otherwise we dehumanized! Truly.

  85. Re:So what's the deal with this? Is it a lie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The INDIANS would do that, precisely. And AFRICANS would simply kill it and forget it as nothing. The CHINESE too would just keep it forgotten or altogether destroy it. The theme is sensitive, it is still a fame point for the old Greeks to have started speculation on amber magnetism and philosophizing about atoms, so this all spells Occident and Modern Life. If you can take back the World to the Dark Ages, many morons would benefit MORE than when any idiot can come up with superflashlights, cell phones, cameras, etc and simply evade them. Personal experience thanks to better batteries.

  86. Re:The Dems are most pleased by Mike+Van+Pelt · · Score: 1

    Alas, Trump, with his trade-war-monger rhetoric, is drawing a lot of support from the normally reliable Democrat organized labor voters. How important a part of the "Democrat Base" is organized labor? Less than it used to be, perhaps, but it's still significant.

  87. Re:The Dems are most pleased by haruchai · · Score: 1

    Trump has achieved what I think may be a 1st, getting a declaration of support from both the KKK (David Duke) and the Nation of Islam (Louis Farrakhan).

    --
    Pain is merely failure leaving the body
  88. Re: The Dems are most pleased by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    Well, we will see. I remain confident in my assessment. Also quite convinced Obama's done the right thing in most, not all, of the areas he's had the opportunity to do anything at all. The ACA is not the single payer system he asked for. It's a mutation created by Congress. It's still far better than the previous state of affairs, and I'm sure it will continue to evolve. Clinton won't be indicted, IMHO. Too entwined with the power structure. Not to mention they'd have to indict Colin Powell and Susan Rice at the same time, and probably lots of other high powered types. Doesn't seem even slightly likely.

    But time will show us both how good our assessments are. Reality has this consistent factual bias. :)

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.