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Microsoft Unhappy With Beta Testers, Demands Answers (computerworld.com)
Freshly Exhumed writes: Microsoft has mandated that the feedback functionality built into Windows Insider Preview beta be switched on -- a change from earlier when testers could block questions from the company about what users thought of specific features. Starting with Build 14271 and newer, the frequency in which Windows 10 will ask for your feedback will be locked to 'Automatically (Recommended)' in the Settings app. This would seem to disrupt what has traditionally been seen as a tacit understanding between corporations and their beta testers/sandboxers in that the latter would volunteer their time, effort, CPU cycles, possible hardware failures/breakage, and more as part of a bargain to receive feedback or to test fly the beta OS with internal software environments in private. Microsoft would now seem to be altering that relationship.
Oh good grief! If you don't want Microsoft to gather information from your beta testing of Microsoft products, don't become a beta tester. I mean, is that what beta testers do, use the product and give feed back as requested? The simple solution if you don't like this policy is to not sign up to beta test Microsoft products if you don't really want to be hassled with feedback, "telemetry", and so forth.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Microsoft would now seem to be altering that relationship.
Pray that they don't alter it any further.
"Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
Robot Chicken.
rewriting history since 2109
Less altering the relationship I think than enforcing it. Too many beta testers were, it sounds like, treating the beta test as a sneak preview or early-access program and taking advantage of the offering without providing the feedback that's their part of the agreement. All Microsoft's doing is taking out the switch that lets them avoid being bugged for the feedback they agreed to give. It'll annoy people who were giving feedback but aren't having problems with those particular areas, but they're heavily outnumbered by the people who weren't giving feedback at all. Yet another case of the greedy breaking things for everybody, I suppose.
Not saying that everyone should or shouldn't give feedback per the term they agree with. But imagine certain group of people like journalists/reviewers, and MS know about them using beta products to gain insight/benchmark and writing review. Obviously you don't want MS to start gaming the system knowing which beta copy they are using and tweak the setting that would work well for particular system/task, but not working well in real life. So, yes, there are certain exception that I would rather have MS not knowing everything, even if those people accept the terms.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- If picture worth a thousand words, how many megapixels is it? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
For those still running windows, and not Chrome OS, Mac, Linux or BSD consider this...an intervention on behalf of the slashdot community. im sure you have some immediate concerns -- reasons perhaps -- that you cannot part with your abuser. ill try my best to assuage your fears.
1. But I use windows for gaming! Steam has more than 200 titles that run just fine in Linux. Popular indie games and mainstream shoot-em-ups alike. they even offer steam machines as a platform if youd rather not fuss with Ubuntu.
2. I need it for office documents. No, it needs you. Libreoffice and a host of other tools let you edit and author office documents easily from any modern operating system.
3. well its what my office uses so... your office and about a million others use windows, but likely still windows 7. Things like email, calendaring, and federated login have existed for decades before Microsoft bundled them into their OS. Most of the services you use online arent contingent on your windows domain. Windows exists in the office out of comfort, standard, and price. corporations license their infrastructure for a fraction of what it would cost you to buy it.
4. $os_name is hard. it doesn do $feature.
its hard because learning new things requires effort. that other OS might not do exactly what windows does, but it still accomplishes the same tasks you need it to do in a different way. Maybe it even does it better. But like a productive relationship, it helps you do important things with respect. and this brings us to our #1 point:
Windows does not respect you or your work. It insults your intelligence and flagrantly ignores your privacy. it sacrifices your productivity and needs for its own. the things it shows you and teaches you arent always things you set out to do or want from the OS, but theyre things the OS wants from you. Buy a new videogame, download a new app, pay for a new upgrade. Your operating system is shallow and narcissistic. perhaps 8 years ago it was meaningful, but times have changed.
Good people go to bed earlier.
I actually was a Windows Insider and loved it but then I started getting dinged with prompts for feedback every time I opened a new program or used a new feature they added. It isn't that bad, but when you're in the middle of trying to do something it is annoying as hell so I don't answer them. Over time this actually changes my habits and made me stop answering any of them all together. I was giving them feedback. They asked for more and I started giving them none.
I really did offer a lot of feedback on Windows 10 during its testing period, using several methods that were made available for that purpose. As far as I'm aware, none of my feedback was reviewed or commented upon and some of the issues I reported were still problems in the shipping releases of Windows 10.
I'll admit that I was testing Windows 10 more for my own professional needs than for the benefit of Microsoft or the final product, but why should I offer feedback at all if it will fall on deaf ears and be met only with inaction?
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
To be fair just because a bug is a big issue for you doesn't mean that it rated high on the list of bugs/changes to be processed for release. If I have a bug that causes crashes or that a 1,000 people reported I'm going to work on that before something that 25 people report that doesn't cause crashes.
Typical post-Gates Microsoft, blame the testers rather than the recipients of the feedback. I have a feeling they're ignoring all the valid feedback as it doesn't fit their narrative and justify what they're paying their developers.
"With Windows 8 we hear your negative feedback but we don't care for it since we know what's better for you and you're going to like it. Or not use it. It's your choice."
As someone who's been beta testing and feedbacking Microsoft products since they had beta tests, I threw in the towel with Windows 8 because they ignored the feedback concerning actual bugs and typographical errors.
Screw you Microsoft, you should have listened when people cared more than you claim to.
Over the years: 1 mobo, 1 hard drive, 2 graphics cards, 1 monitor all due to betta testing NT4.0
Bettas are notoriously aggressive. Although it was probably the water that killed your hardware.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
Beta Testers: Hey, Microsoft, Windows 10 is OK, but the telemetry is fucking evil.
Microsoft: It's not evil. Otherwise, how is it?
Beta Testers: It's really fucking invasive and evil.
Microsoft: Outside of the telemetry, focus! focus!
Beta Testers: Umm.. your software is evil as shit...
Microsoft: I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.
Beta Testers: *Gasp!* * Choke!*
Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!
Vote for Bernie in 2016!
Interesting points, and I fully agree with you when it comes to tech people like us.
But if you think that your comments are scalable, then you probably have not dealt with non technical people, who are just trying to get work done(tm)
For instance:
- girlfriend works in some marketing/accounting/business unit and needs to finish some documentation at home during the weekend because of a late request
- grandma wants to see her grandchildren photos, which are embedded in that powerpoint. Background music is important.
- Non-Tech father needs to rework some documents done in the universal tool of all Lords, namely Excel, which office people bastardize via macros and whatever to serve a schizophrenic life of being spreadsheet, text editor, database, time planner, bug tracker, and version control tool all at once.
- Friend want to install password manager, tax program, adobe lightroom/Picasa, iTunes, pick non-web-based program, etc. and doesn't feel like learning anything about wine unless he/she is going to drink it.
So if you truly believe what you wrote, then you are either too young, or you work in a small technical company, or are a freelancer, or are one of those people expecting the world to change and learn to think and behave like us.
My heart is with you. I even use Linux (Xubuntu) as my daily driver at home, and I used to think like you trying to change the world. But as you have said yourself, times have changed and I have learned the reality. And even I need to dual boot to Windows every once in a while.
"With Windows 8 we hear your negative feedback but we don't care for it since we know what's better for you and you're going to like it. Or not use it. It's your choice."
Sounds a lot like Linus when someone proposes a fix he doesn't like...
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Microsoft is pushing a lot of testing onto early and non business users. What did they expect actually?
Secondly, Microsoft has moved to a rolling release style of development, while also pushing hard on features people aren't all that excited about. What do they expect?
If they really "demand answers", maybe they can fund the internal testing, etc... needed to get them, so their "beta" program may actually then deliver more meaningful feedback.
Blogging because I can...
I think this beta tester thing is overblown on the part of the testers. If you want to be a beta tester, provide feedback. But... MS has been very ugly in how they are using Windows 10 and other software onto users in a most Orwellian manner. I really think it's a hideous mistake to not honor customer settings on privacy and then "undo" these privacy settings with the next update. I saw Windows 10 for what it was long before it hit mainstream, as Windows 8.1 wasn't much better. This is not the OS to use should you care a whit about your privacy. In keeping with this privacy notion, I stopped using Ubuntu when they added the stupid shopping lens. My OS is just that, an OS. I don't want it serving ads, changing my settings once I've configured them, spying on me, phoning home to whomever. I have moved over to the BSD camp and am very happy. Free- and OpenBSD do what I ask them to do. Better than Linux, even, at least for me. My needs are minimal, but specialized, and *BSD fits that bill better than any current OS.
I also deleted my three Outlook.com email accounts once I learned they spy like mad. I have gone to a paid provider (Fastmail) which respects my privacy.
Unlike most here on slashdot I do actually want to use and learn your products. I really do as an IT professional I need to be up to date and I have the power to recommend your products and give you more money too.
Here is what everyone including myself think and why you are receiving negative feedback.1st off I want to say job well done with Windows 7. It brought me back from Linux as my main desktop as I know have linux stuff in vm's. What we liked was it was rock solid, stable, well tested, and worked and was well tested with the enterprise environment.
Windows 10 is very very flakely and loaded with privacy concerns since you fired all your QA. I tried last week for the 4th time to install Windows 10 on my desktop as a fresh upgrade. Too many bugs. What is unique as all 3 times I received a different bug. DNS issues, graphical artifacts, names cut short like c:\users\ti, drivers for Samsung pro SATA replaced by MS making system unbootable, etc. Corporations and inviduals have privacy concerns too. Make the pro version not track so you can monetize. Many businesses (all of them) process credit cards. How do you know that info is not being sent?? Not everyone is a big enterprise who buys the enterprise edition just for your information.
Hire some QA back and address privacy and give options for paying customers to have no tracking instead of relying on users and I may recommend 10.1 or 10.2 after redstone and all will be forgiven just like after Vista, 7 fixed things.
It is a shame because I started liking your products recently.
http://saveie6.com/
"I am altering the deal . . . pray that I don't alter it any further" has nothing to do with praying to the Abrahamic Deity.
It has more to do with telling Microsoft that their "sad devotion to that ancient religion has not conjured up" a stable release of Windows 10.
If you don't participate in the beta test the right way Microsoft will "find your lack of faith . . . disturbing" and start choking you over an open port on your PC . . .
Graphics on my laptop great with Windows 10 until the an update. Since then it will not drive an external monitor. Reported it about 6 months ago. Machine is dual boot so windows 7 runs fine on the same hardware so I know the graphics card is fine, Will they let me roll back to older driver? No. They have a working driver, just let me install it.
Why give feedback when it will just be ignored.
I had over 100 upvotes on insider feedback last time I checked.
Learned of it from a /. article back in Jan-Feb 2015, joining was a job in itself -as- I have a Hotmail account which half or more of the sites I frequent have as my e-mail address which is then forwarded to Gmail to POP.
I can't access Hotmail; I've tried just enough to not lose it, nor would MS take it for the Insider program so I created a new account which damn if it didn't match itself to my hot mail account.
Hours later I downloaded Win10, read the ToS and couldn't agree to it, refusing to install Win10 and never logged back into the insiders program. I was to allow total access to my computer and it's peripherals, the LCD Cam was one specifically addressed.
I figure the Win10 archive was removed from my system and I don't delete anything. I haven't come across it since.
Feedback? Run to the back of the house and ask in a low voice "Cortana can you hear me now?", send report.
Ironic/the hell!, I have Win10 on a small laptop now, it request that you sign into Microsoft, using any email address including Hotmail.
Never going back to Microsoft and the Insiders was a precaution due to an error on my part - I tried to set up a POP3 account with my new MS e-mail address so Goggled the POP3 ports for MS, who knew there are separate ports for Outlook, and another two for everybody else! I do now, always figured two ports for all e-mail.
The ports I used hardwired my insiders new email handle into my Emailer Forte Agent's From: entry and I have yet to find out where - it can only be in the Agent directory, as the system has seen many fresh installs since.
One nightmare I could and should of avoided.
It makes it sound like Microsoft is Angry with their insiders over something they did or something they didn't do, and demanding an explanation from each one of their beta testers about their lack of feedback, or else....
In reality, it's nothing of the sort.... they have just decided to remove the ability of Beta testers to Opt-Out of annoying nag screens.
Same here, retail Windows 10 is a disaster, stability wise.
Windows Server 2016 (beta) is surprisingly useable desktop though.
You can sometimes roll back the driver in device manager, but that feature is flakey. Better just:
Control Panel -> System -> System Properties -> Hardware -> Device installation settings and disable driver updates in there. Some KBs will still spuriously install drivers as part of some "hot fix" or whatever, but since disabling this I had much less issues with devices suddenly misbehaving.
Keeping drivers on auto update in windows is downright crazy now, as microsoft for some inexplicable reason decided to stop QA vetting drivers and push whatever garbage they get their hands on.
Only on Slashdot can 3/4ths of a story be complete fiction written by troll and get a bunch of nerds (no insult, since I'm the biggest nerd of them all) passionate about X upset about Y. The only real story is that Microsoft removed the ability for insiders to opt out of testing...which was what they said would happen to begin with....long before Windows 10 ever came out.
You just don't fucking listen.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
True, but like OP I tested Windows 10 and gave feedback. No replies or acknowledgments were ever provided. Amongst the many bug and feedback reports I sent were for issues that were absolutely an issue for lots of people because lots of people starting bitching about them once the product actually shipped; stuff like the inconsistent UI, many of the on-going stability issues, and other issues that made it through to release. I'm sure that I reported many things that were specific to me and maybe a handful of others, for which it's fair enough that they should be lost in the morass of minor issues "for later resolution, maybe", but Microsoft has no excuse on the big ticket items. They asked for feedback, got it, and appear to have done nothing with it - people were writing articles about the issues in MSM for $deity's sake - how much more obvious feedback do they want? In that light is it any wonder people might give up and stop providing feedback, especially when it appears that Microsoft is taking it all anyway via telemetry.
Like the intelligence agencies, it seems they might be drowning in too much data, can't find the bits that they need, and figure the solution to the problem is to try and acquire even more data. Good luck with that!
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
I have an Insider build of Windows 10 on a Lumia that I'm not using as a daily driver, and it feels like it'll update overnight, then ask me in the morning how stable this build is. I don't know, I've probably had less than 15 minutes of "on" time on the phone since the last update! Further, 99% of the crashes I see on the phone are because the primary app I use (PocketCasts for podcasting) was released, updated once, and has a variety of significant bugs.
Windows Phone itself? Has been fine, I actually like it, but was a little too locked-down for my use and is of course lacking in apps.
fencepost
just a little off
While some of Microsoft's moves are irritating, they are probably the only way for them to stay relevant as a major OS market player long term. Pushing users to update to Win 10 is their best hope to retain developers who would otherwise focus on low fragmentation iOS first. Since Windows hardware is fragmented as well, they can't hope to compete with stability of all-in-one vendors without extensive telemetry and feedback. Also, users are no longer accustomed to paying for OS updates, since OSX/iOS/Android/ChromeOS have free updates (and the last two are also free for OEMs). So the only ways to make money is keeping users on Bing/Edge, getting everyone to update to OS version with Windows Store, pushing cloud services like Office 365 and experiments such as lock screen ads.
They could do everything we want them to and become a minor player like Blackberry in 5 years. I guess I don't blame them for trying to stay relevant, especially when we have other choices from vendors who chose a different business model.
I was just going to comment on the same type of experience, but on the desktop.
I have beta tested a number of Windows OS versions.
I don't recall what version of Windows (7, or 8), but I remember in the Beta I would click on a feature to try it out, and immediately I would get a dialog asking how did I find the design and the functionality of this feature. I would click off the dialog, then try out the feature and I wasn't allowed to bring the dialog back up to comment. I did have a section I could bring up for commenting on the beta, but everything was always grayed out.
I was also the Windows Vista Beta. That they had a dedicated board for us to report bugs, discuss features and make suggestions. There was one section that thousands of Beta testers signed their name on protesting that Vista was being released when it was obviously not ready yet.
Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.