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Mercedes-Benz Swaps Robots For People On Assembly Lines (theguardian.com)

The usual narrative in the last few years is that robots relentlessly displace humans in today's highly mechanized workplaces (like factories and mines), but sometimes robots' speed and dexterity can't overcome their basic problem -- namely, they're robots. Reader jones_supa writes with this story from The Guardian about why robots aren't always the right tool, excerpting: Bucking modern manufacturing trends, carmaker Mercedes-Benz has been forced to trade in some of its assembly line robots for more flexible humans. The robots cannot handle the pace of change and the complexity of the key customization options available for the company's S-Class saloon at the 101-year-old Sindelfingen plant, which produces 400,000 vehicles a year from 1,500 tons of steel a day. The dizzying number of options for the cars – from heated or cooled cup holders, various wheels, carbon-fibre trims and decals, and even four types of caps for tire valves – demand adaptability, a quality that is still more easily fulfilled by humans than robots.

26 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. Predictable... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Funny

    The robots wanted better working conditions and got replaced by humans. Damn corporations!

    1. Re:Predictable... by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You're laughing, but it's serious.

      People are simply cheaper. No initial cost, people come pre-made and ready to use. No maintenance costs, people are self-fixing and self-repairing, and if repair times are too long you simply dump them and buy, I mean, hire a new one. Same for wear and tear, once the human is too damaged to continue, simply replace it.

      Why use machines when humans can do the same job more flexibly and cheaper?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Predictable... by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Nono, machines used to be cheaper. But with the current climate of cheap labour (in Germany there are now jobs where the state pretty much pays the wage for your workers as long as you nominally employ them so they don't show up in the unemployment statistics), there's simply no way machines can compete with people who cost you about a buck an hour.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  2. Some jobs will always be safe by rmdingler · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The threshold for profitable robotic replacement does keep dropping.

    People are flawed creatures capable of manufacturing more profitable iterations of themselves for the workplace.

    What jobs are safest?

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:Some jobs will always be safe by Viol8 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "What jobs are safest?"

      Robot programming? Until they can program themselves of course.

      Of course once enough blue & white collar people are put out of work by automation and a threshold is crossed whereby massive social unrest ensues then the standard corporate goal of reducing costs no matter what will have to be re-evaluated. Either voluntarily or by force.

    2. Re:Some jobs will always be safe by MasseKid · · Score: 5, Informative

      If we can have Robots that make everything for nothing, including themselves, then we will be in a Utopia as no one will have want for anything. If there is a dictatorship (economic or not) that keeps people from having things that are no longer a scare resource, that is a problem that has nothing to do with robotics.

    3. Re:Some jobs will always be safe by alvinrod · · Score: 2

      If it comes to that, it's easier to just let corporations be as efficient as possible while increasing tax rates to support the people who can't work, which shouldn't be terribly expensive if you've got cheap robot labor doing most of the work required to support people.

      At some point we'll probably end up with a Gattaca or Brave New World style approach where future humans are only created such that they will be capable of the kind of work that robots cannot yet do as there isn't much point in keeping around large groups of people that can't really add much to society. Whether that occurs peacefully or violently remains to be seen.

    4. Re:Some jobs will always be safe by careysub · · Score: 2

      There is a secondary problem that people rarely talk about. The intermediate step between humans doing the work and full automation is "almost full automation" where humans are just a cog in the machine. You can see this in mcdonald's, in amazon warehouses, in manufacturing plants, and even in things like amazon turk. These "almost full automation" plants have horrible working conditions as the steps performed by the humans are repetitive, boring, and have to be done at high speed to keep up with the rest of the machine. My guess is that although mercedes-benz might have put humans back into the loop that you still wouldn't want to work at one of those jobs.

      This is a good point. It mirrors what happened in the First Industrial Revolution. Those factory jobs were notorious for the brutal conditions of work.

      Also mirroring the FIR is the likely generations long gap between putting a large fraction of the population out of work, and the socioeconomic adjustment leading to distribution of the new wealth back to all segments of the population. In the case of the FIR that gap was at least 70 years long, from about 1770 to 1840 (optimists claim it was "only" 60 years, pessimists might extend it to 90 years). In the interval there was massive, desperate poverty for a large segment of the population clearly documented by falling life spans and shrinking adult height. This is masked in any study that only looks at average real wages, since that hides the enormous inequality that exploded during the period.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    5. Re:Some jobs will always be safe by peragrin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well that sounds like the top 5% aren't giving the bottom 40% enough money to begin with. If the bottom 40% were paid more then they wouldn't need government redistribution.

      Seriously what makes a better company. Paying the employees who work for a living more or paying the cep another 2 million in compensation on top of his 10 million a year?

      The janitors generally work harder and longer hours than CEOs. As the janitors don't get 6-12 weeks of paid vacation a year.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    6. Re:Some jobs will always be safe by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Seriously what makes a better company. Paying the employees who work for a living more or paying the cep another 2 million in compensation on top of his 10 million a year?

      Was Apple successful because of Steve Jobs, or because they had better assembly line workers than their competitors?

      The janitors generally work harder and longer hours than CEOs.

      Subsistence farmers in Africa work even harder.

    7. Re:Some jobs will always be safe by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      As quality of life improves people tend to be less interested in having lots of children anyway, especially once they understand that children are the primary reason their quality of life decreases. That's why the fertility rate falls to below 2.0 when educational programmes are introduced.

      The real question is how will a society where everything is provided for by robots react? When there is little down side to having many children, will people want many children or will their intellectual pursuits and desire for freedom keep fertility rates low?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Some jobs will always be safe by drew_kime · · Score: 2

      Lakefront property will always be scarce. Today, money is how we decide who gets to live there. How do you propose we do it in the future?

      --
      Nope, no sig
    9. Re:Some jobs will always be safe by WheezyJoe · · Score: 2

      I'm far from management, but even I wouldn't want 1% of some of those kinds of responsibilities, even if they can be abused or "overlooked" for quite a long period of time.

      If you're thinking about the owner of a small business, who has to handle everything from payroll to inventory to facilities-management all by herself and a copy of Quickbooks, then yes, that's crazy hard.

      But a CEO of a public company is a whole different world, because he has the budget to hire a staff, and thereby offload all the hard stuff to someone else (the word used at Yale business school is: "delegate"). Yes, so long as the cronies at the Board like you, you can be as dumb as a box of rocks, so long as you're just smart enough to hire a bunch of VP's eager to compete with each other for a promotion. Problem solved. One meeting a week, tell me what I need to know, tell me what I should decide, done. Off to the golf course to see and be seen... yes, everything's running just fine.

      And something goes wrong? Two things: limited liability ("corporate veil"), and golden parachute. Why the latter? Well, if the Board were to kick a CEO to the curb, nobody would step forward to replace him.

      It's a different world, up there, upstairs, among the Boardrooms and the Foundations. The richer you are, the more stuff people offer you for free, including sympathy. Michael Milken and Martha Stewart went to jail, and it still wasn't enough to get kicked out of the country club.

      --
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    10. Re:Some jobs will always be safe by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For some start-up, sure, being the CEO does require a lot of drive and intelligence. You don't put together a company from scratch without a lot of talent and smarts.

      For some well-established company, no. A lot of those CEOs aren't all that intelligent. They got those jobs because of their networking skills; they went to the right colleges, joined the right fraternities, went to the right country clubs, developed the right contacts, etc. That's how they got those jobs. They don't have to be all that smart, they just have to be reasonably decent at picking VPs to do the hard work for them, and then just show up for all the functions they're supposed to show up for. Basically, a CEO at companies like that is little more than the public face of the company, a figurehead. A reasonably-intelligent and socially-skilled janitor could do it just as well.

  3. What's "They took yer jerbs!" in binary? by NotDrWho · · Score: 3, Funny

    Maybe the robots can ask for unemployment.

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
  4. not replacing robots by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Mercedes is shifting to what it calls “robot farming” - equipping workers with an array of smaller, lighter machines. ...
    The change will mean smaller, more flexible systems that work side-by-side with humans will replace some of the large traditional robotic machines, including in the production of the new Mercedes E-Class. A human or a lightweight machine will replace two fixed robots for the alignment of the car’s new heads-up display, which projects speed and directions on to the windshield.

    the basic problem is that Mercedes invested in large fixed machines that are limited in their abilities. they are temporarily relieving some of the large robots of certain duties to let more agile robots do the job. until the more agile robots are 100% ready, human will be assisting the robots.

    it's 2016 and it's about time companies start investing in manufacturing machines that have hands with dexterity equal to humans. also, robotics companies need to develop better programming interfaces so that the robots can be taught what to do rather than directly programmed.

    robots are still center stage here and humans are going to be on the sidelines again shortly.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  5. A post from the paper (not mine), but apt. by dhaen · · Score: 2

    It's almost as if the Germans have just found a source of cheap human labour.

    1. Re:A post from the paper (not mine), but apt. by feufeu · · Score: 2

      You've obviously never been to a Mercedes factory, there's stricly nothing cheap about the way their workers are treated.

  6. It all boils down, in either case, to ... by Rambo+Tribble · · Score: 2

    ... the cost of reprogramming.

  7. Robots will not bring the end of scarcity by sjbe · · Score: 2

    If we can have Robots that make everything for nothing, including themselves, then we will be in a Utopia as no one will have want for anything.

    You haven't thought it through my friend. First off, human want is basically infinite, so there is that. Second, we have limits to the amount of energy practically available to us. Energy is the ultimate constraint on production of anything. Third, there are plenty of resources beyond labor that are scarce and provide practical constraints on production of tangible goods. Unless you are going to invoke some Star Trek replicator level of science fiction, even a self replicating hugely flexible robot will not mean the end of scarcity.

    1. Re:Robots will not bring the end of scarcity by ranton · · Score: 2

      You haven't thought it through my friend. First off, human want is basically infinite, so there is that.

      Human want is not even practically infinite, it is sometimes very large but quite finite. The incorrect assumption that human want is infinite is one of the mistakes that will cause the next economic collapse - right now we're assuming that the 1% can create enough demand to make work for the 99%, but they can't.

      Human want being infinite has nothing to do with the labor requirements of fulfilling those desires. You are describing the problem that the 1% cannot create as much economic demand as the 99% regardless of having similar net worth. These are linked issues but not the same thing.

      You are correct that human desire is not literally infinite, but I think sjbe is also correct that human desire can be treated as basically infinite for any discussion of resource allocation.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
  8. Replicating the human hand by sjbe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    it's 2016 and it's about time companies start investing in manufacturing machines that have hands with dexterity equal to humans.

    For specific tasks we have devices that already exceed human dexterity. Sometimes by a lot. The challenge isn't really dexterity as much as programability. We can make devices that hugely exceed human precision for many tasks. Replicating a human hand as an end effector is kind of a pointless and expensive exercise for most tasks. There are much more optimal designs depending on what you are doing. For example having a robotic copy of a human hand holding a welding torch is pointless complication and adds a lot of cost. There are people working on anthro designs but mostly for academic rather than practical purposes. I suspect you'll see it in places but as a general proposition replicating the human body isn't often the best approach to problem solving.

    also, robotics companies need to develop better programming interfaces so that the robots can be taught what to do rather than directly programmed.

    Already done. I was working with VR programming of robots for assembly line work 15 years ago in my day job and there has been progress since then.

  9. Re:The sky is not falling by jbengt · · Score: 2

    Developers of automation is the obvious one. Politicians for another. Artists. Engineers. Lawyers. Doctors and Nurses. Marketing. Soldiers. The list is pretty extensive. Automation will impact every job in some capacity but relatively few jobs will completely disappear.

    Automation is already starting to replace engineers and soldiers. Expert systems are making inroads in medicine and law. There is already a glut of lawyers. Although the impact should be, for now, on the lower levels jobs of those fields, they could all be subject to great reductions in numbers of workers needed, except, due to obvious self-serving reasons, politicians.

  10. Janitors do not work longer and harder than CEOs by sjbe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The janitors generally work harder and longer hours than CEOs.

    No as a matter of fact janitors do NOT work harder and longer than the CEOs. The fact that you say that shows that you have no idea what a CEO of a large company actually does or the sort of hours they put in. I'll presume you know what a janitor does but I've yet to meet one who works harder than a CEO. They also provide quite a lot less value to a company and are far more easily replaced.

    Are a lot of CEOs overpaid? Certainly. Are a lot of rank and file workers underpaid? Of course. But let's not get absurd about the relative value or typical work ethic of janitors.

    As the janitors don't get 6-12 weeks of paid vacation a year.

    Neither do most CEOs and even if they did, most couldn't really take it. Being CEO of a large corporation is a pretty all consuming job. You don't get to that job by taking a lot of time off and you certainly don't stay there by taking time off.

  11. Energy too cheap to meter - heard that before by sjbe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In a world without labor cost, where robots can produce windmills, solar panels, and geothermal plants, even energy will have near zero cost.

    Not according to anyone who has even a basic understanding of accounting. Even if the production of those things could be completely automated (it cannot without invoking science fiction) there still are costs of materials, cost of financing, limited amounts of land, environmental costs, cost of tooling, cost of design, and plenty of other non-trivial costs that you aren't considering. The fact that you take direct labor to approximately zero doesn't make it free. Not even close.

    By the way we've heard the "energy too cheap to meter" argument before. It was bogus then and it is bogus now.

  12. Beware of naive extrapolation by sjbe · · Score: 2

    Yeah. How many humans can the world accommodate? In a world without "artificial scarcity" they'll breed like rabbits on viagra and fertility pills (producing real scarcity), and already there is arguably far too many of them.

    There is plenty of evidence that isn't necessarily true. Birth rates in many countries have fallen below replacement as they have improved their economic well being. The best birth control appears to be economic opportunity. A Malthusian catastrophe is not a particularly likely scenario. It's just a perfect example of noticing a trend and extrapolating naively.