UK Snooper's Charter To Extend Police Access To Phone and Internet Data (theguardian.com)

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UK Snooper's Charter To Extend Police Access To Phone and Internet Data (theguardian.com)

Posted by timothy on Tuesday March 1, 2016 @04:26AM from the for-the-children-includes-adults dept.

An anonymous reader writes with this news from the Guardian about a proposed expansion of UK government agencies' power to eavesdrop under the so-called "snooper's charter": Powers for the police to access everyone's web browsing histories and to hack into their phones are to be expanded under the latest version of the snooper's charter legislation. The extension of police powers contained in the investigatory powers bill published on Tuesday indicates the determination of the home secretary, Theresa May, to get her controversial legislation on to the statute book by the end of this year in spite of sweeping criticisms by three separate parliamentary committees in the past month. The bill is designed to provide the first comprehensive legal framework for state surveillance powers anywhere in the world. It has been developed in response to the disclosure of state mass surveillance programmes by the whistleblower Edward Snowden. The government hopes it will win the backing of MPs by the summer and by the House of Lords this autumn.

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We need kryptonite by BarbaraHudson · 2016-03-01 04:30 · Score: 2

Specifically we need the sort of kryptonite that kills this dead - end to end encryption on unhackable devices that will wipe themselves. For calling, for email, for texts - with only metadata, they won't go nearly as far.

--
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
1. Re: We need kryptonite by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 04:40 · Score: 1
  
  if this helps to prevent just one criminal act, it's worth it. Think of the children!
2. Re:We need kryptonite by erikkemperman · 2016-03-01 04:47 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Funny also how she wants to rush this through, right when everyone is distracted by the Brexit farce. Coincidence? I think not.
  
  --
  Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
3. Re: We need kryptonite by BarbaraHudson · 2016-03-01 04:48 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  if this helps to prevent just one criminal act, it's worth it. Think of the children!
  If this allows the police to mis-interpret just one kid's conversations, it's not worth it. Think of the children!
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
4. Re: We need kryptonite by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 04:52 · Score: 0
  
  Unfortunately, thinking of the children does not seem to be a criminal act in the UK. At least not for MP's.
5. Re: We need kryptonite by AmiMoJo · 2016-03-01 04:53 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  My MP make a similar claim when I asked her about this a few years back. She said something along the lines of "in the past this helped the police get to a girl who was about to commit suicide, so you can see why it's so important a power." I pointed out that abuse of this power has lead to several suicides, but she did that standard MP thing of ignoring the point/question put to her and simply repeating her pre-prepared statement.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
6. Re: We need kryptonite by gstoddart · 2016-03-01 05:49 · Score: 2
  
  The unfortunate thing about such people is they have no grasp of the fact that they're morons.
  To them, "won't someone think of the children" trumps any rational thought. Stopping that one suicide is a perfect justification to shit all over the rights of everybody else.
  Sadly, your MP is too stupid to know she's a fucking idiot.
  
  --
  Lost at C:>. Found at C.
7. Re: We need kryptonite by Anne+Thwacks · 2016-03-01 08:25 · Score: 1
  
  If this allows just one major business to be hacked - its worth it.
  The real lesson from Snowdon is: If the government has the data, everyone else will get it real soon.
  
  --
  Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
8. Re: We need kryptonite by serviscope_minor · 2016-03-01 08:56 · Score: 1
  
  Sadly, your MP is too stupid to know she's a fucking idiot.
  This is more or less generically true.
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
9. Re:We need kryptonite by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 09:37 · Score: 0
  
  A good day for bad news
10. Re: We need kryptonite by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 12:55 · Score: 0
  
  She will have been to "a briefing".
11. Re: We need kryptonite by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 13:43 · Score: 0
  
  You can't just say "the abuse of this power has led to suicides". You have to tell a story about it.
  Along the lines of, "In May 2014, 9-year-old Elsie Victim sent a text message to her best friend..."
  Unless you can put together an actual narrative, with names and dates, no-one will listen - and understandably so, because anyone can make uncheckable claims. And for an MP in particular, you need to tell a story because they are trying to juggle 2,437 different ideas in their heads, and they need the relations and relevance spelled out for them.
Great comeback by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · 2016-03-01 04:35 · Score: 3, Insightful

It has been developed in response to the disclosure of state mass surveillance programmes by the whistleblower Edward Snowden.
So their answer to state mass surveillance programmes is more state mass surveillance programmes?
People: Hey guys, we're sinking!
Government: Let's pump more water into the boat!
1. Re:Great comeback by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 04:41 · Score: 0
  
  What exactly where you expecting from a nation of idiots?
2. Re:Great comeback by wardrich86 · 2016-03-01 04:48 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  People: Hey guys, we're sinking! Government: Let's pump more water into the boat!
  Are you fucking dumb? The solution isn't to pump more water into the boat... you've gotta drill holes in the bottom of the boat so that all the water flowing into the boat has a way to escape. Stop thinking like an American, and start thinking more like the UK.
3. Re:Great comeback by erikkemperman · 2016-03-01 04:49 · Score: 1
  
  It has been developed in response to the disclosure of state mass surveillance programmes by the whistleblower Edward Snowden.
  So their answer to state mass surveillance programmes is more state mass surveillance programmes?
  Of course! Their answer to needle-in-haystack problems is always to add hay.
  
  --
  Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
4. Re:Great comeback by Locke2005 · 2016-03-01 04:53 · Score: 2
  
  Sounds perfectly rational to me. Their response to people pointing out that they are doing unlawful surveillance is to make it retroactively legal!
  
  --
  I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
5. Re:Great comeback by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 04:53 · Score: 0
  
  The U.K. becomes the equivalent of a "third-world nation" with this. "Third-world nations" have a huge problem with corruption and tend to trample whatever civil liberties the citizens in the nation have. This action is as corrupt as it gets. I really can't believe their government is making a conscious decision to pursue this policy. Sorry, people of the U.K.. But don't worry, now that the U.K. has set the example, I am sure whatever asshat gets elected next in the States (even Sanders, the most liberal of the major candidates) won't waste time to catch up and pass the U.K. So much for peace and prosperity.
6. Re:Great comeback by Maritz · 2016-03-01 05:19 · Score: 1
  
  All nations are nations of idiots. Including yours.
  
  --
  I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
7. Re: Great comeback by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 06:30 · Score: 0
  
  The original immigrants into America, the ones who genocided the Native American Iindians, came from England. Your fence is either too late or needs to be much larger.
8. Re: Great comeback by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 07:08 · Score: 1
  
  The only way to fight this is through a higher power and authority, like the UN charter and the UN bill of rights. There has to be a higher authority than the Regent and the Parliament. At the very least, the European Parliament should not remain silent on this proposed legislation.
9. Re:Great comeback by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 07:41 · Score: 1
  
  A standard logical falicy: false dichotomy
  A solution could be to both drill holes and pump more water in.
10. Re:Great comeback by currently_awake · 2016-03-01 07:46 · Score: 1
  
  In their defense, that would stop them from breaking the law.
11. Re: Great comeback by Hognoxious · 2016-03-01 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  Whoever you are, we've probably beaten you in several wars, so just fuck off.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
12. Re: Great comeback by KGIII · 2016-03-01 10:05 · Score: 1
  
  I dunno? I live in the US. You could say 1812 and point to the White House but then I'd just point out we burned the capitol of Canada prior and Jebus saved us and put the flames out with his super awesome rain. I'd also point out that it wasn't really a win, by any stretch of the imagination.
  Unfortunately, who bombs who best isn't really a good metric. I'm kind of partial to tiddlywinks competitions to see whose citizens are best. I guess we could play jacks except I'm only aware of one way to play it and it involves a rubber ball.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
13. Re: Great comeback by Ash-Fox · 2016-03-01 11:21 · Score: 1
  
  . At the very least, the European Parliament should not remain silent on this proposed legislation.
  I guess the EU could threaten to join more poor economic countries and cause another Zerg rush into the UK.
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
14. Re: Great comeback by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 11:48 · Score: 0
  
  ... play jacks ...
  
  There's a game I haven't seen played in a long time. Marbles is another schoolyard game that's disappeared. Coca-cola doesn't seem to push yo-yos anymore so I'll include those too.
  
  ... one way to play it and it involves a rubber ball.
  
  There's a way without a rubber ball? It's always the little things that surprise oneself.
15. Re: Great comeback by KGIII · 2016-03-01 12:21 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know if they even sell marbles any more? Kids might eat 'em, you know. I do have some very nice yo-yos. I was pretty into them when I was younger and have retained the skill. I juggle and do a few illusions including a bunch with cards. I do the rings and I have my own ball and cup routine, things like that. I even have a clown outfit but I've not worn it much in years. The last time I wore one was at my daughter's request when I was visiting her. She works in a children's trauma unit as a doctor and she wanted me to do her rounds with her - that was something I used to do when I was younger and needed something to help me relax and make things more meaningful.
  As for jacks? I'm not positive but I believe there are piles of ways to play it. It seems likely? The game pre-dates rubber balls. I'm sure there are variations - there's gotta be? It has been around for forever and a day. At least that's what I understood. Lemme try that Wikipedia thing...
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
  It does appear that there are variations - and I'd never heard it called Knucklebones before.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
16. Re:Great comeback by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-02 02:56 · Score: 0
  
  YES! There is one American who was ahead of his time though, and here are two fine examples of him discovering the value of "Speed Holes" and then implementing them in the real world (for science!):
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?vT8ASgGwxJyc
  &
  http;://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3ja6Hn8ps4
17. Re: Great comeback by Hognoxious · 2016-03-02 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  Does the USA have loads of football stadiums that are (or were) regularly visited by English fans?
  Not you then, is it. Daft old git.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
How to create a police state; by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 04:39 · Score: 3, Insightful

give the police the powers enjoyed by the police in a police state.
It seems strange to me that they do not realize that in asking for these powers (well taking these powers and subsequently making any illegal actions retrospectively legal) they mark themselves as exactly the people and organizations that should not in any circumstances be given these powers.
Shameful really.
1. Re:How to create a police state; by AmiMoJo · 2016-03-01 05:02 · Score: 2
  
  It's political cowardice. Cameron in particular is a coward, but there are plenty of them in his party.
  The police/MI5/GCHQ find their job difficult and so demand new powers to spy on people. The politicians don't want to say no because then if something happens like a terrorist attack of particularly nasty crime they will get the blame. "Why didn't you give police/MI5 the powers they needed to prevent this?" newspapers will ask.
  The politicians don't have the backbone to stand up to this. Cameron has even said so when asked about these powers. He openly admitted it.
  The Home Secretary, Ms. May, has the additional pressure of needing to bring crime stats down consistently too, while also making cuts to the security services. All the efficiency savings have been made years ago, the only way forward is to give in to their demands which they claim will make their jobs easier.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
2. Re:How to create a police state; by Maritz · 2016-03-01 05:21 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I'd like to agree but don't think I can. I think the politicians want those powers, they've always wanted them, and when they get them they'll be back for more.
  
  --
  I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
3. Re:How to create a police state; by currently_awake · 2016-03-01 07:54 · Score: 2
  
  You've got it backwards. They are already doing this, but want to legalize it so they can stop worrying about getting arrested.
4. Re:How to create a police state; by gweihir · 2016-03-01 11:51 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed. Well, maybe the UK votes to leave the EU soon and the subsequent inevitable implosion of their economy will make this pretty irrelevant.
  Come to think of it, maybe these are _preparation_ for a collapse of the UK?
  
  --
  Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
5. Re:How to create a police state; by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 13:47 · Score: 0
  
  The GP is closer to accurate. The problem is that we only lobby ministers when we notice them doing something stupid. Their underlings - in this case, the spooks and cops - lobby them 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. We can't compete with that.
  The only way we have a chance is to appoint ministers who have strongly held beliefs about their jobs. Sadly, we (collectively) have decided not to vote for people like that, and so we get the modern generation of politicians who have no convictions about anything at all.
6. Re:How to create a police state; by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 17:38 · Score: 0
  
  ..The only way we have a chance is to appoint ministers who have strongly held beliefs about their jobs. Sadly, we (collectively) have decided not to vote for people like that, and so we get the modern generation of politicians who have no convictions about anything at all.
  '..strongly held beliefs..' Very few (if any) people with these mythical things actually get as far as the selection stage for the main parties (they get weeded out early, if they do have them and survive to the candidate stage, they keep them suppressed, follow the official party line..).
  '..we (collectively) have decided not to vote for people like that.. Voters, vote like sheep on the whole (the old 'I vote Labour, my father voted Labour, so did my Grandfather and his ferret Baa..Baa..Baaaaa)
  '..modern generation of politicians..' There should be a rule which states if they've done Law or Politics at Uni, they should be forced to at least work in a manual job for a year before even being put on the selection lists...what am I saying? manual jobs in the UK? they'd have to persuade the bosses of the companies to stop hiring the $foreign_nationals_of_choice over the locals..
7. Re:How to create a police state; by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-02 03:09 · Score: 0
  
  > I think the politicians want those powers, they've always wanted them, and when they get them they'll be back for more.
  Pretty much every person in history has wanted the power to snoop & gain influence, it's human nature. Think back to spells where one needed a targeted individual's personal item to affect them. Think back to predictive techniques such as reading tea-leaves or cards. Heck even just plain old 'gossip & snooping' is as frequent thing in society. People LOVE to be able to track, keep up on, predict, and otherwise 'be one up on' others.
  Unfortuanately, now that so much of our participation in the world is digitized it makes for easy records, and therefore surveillance the most possible thing ever. Not that it's polite, moral, or even legal... but possible, (which is all a curious/snooping human can hope for).
Someone Needs To Curb Stomp The Queen. by zenlessyank · 2016-03-01 04:41 · Score: 0

I think someone needs to remind the UK that they aren't above getting sanctioned or just cut off from the net. Don't get me wrong, I like Top Gear as much as the next guy, but this is a load of crap. The US and UK fought 2 wars against countries that thought fences and surveillance and totalitarian control was evil. Now we(they) are turning into the same thing. Only a newer, sicker, more sublime version.
1. Re:Someone Needs To Curb Stomp The Queen. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 05:15 · Score: 0
  
  Someone really *does* need to cut the submarine cables that connect the UK to the rest of the world.
  Let's set an example starting with the U.S.A
Assuming it gets though parliament by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 04:44 · Score: 1

Given the beatings it has received from the parliamentary comities, and how little it has actually changed since, it may not. Even if it does not it needs a super-majority if the lords take a dislike to like it, which they may well.
I wish it the worst of luck.
1. Re:Assuming it gets though parliament by erikkemperman · 2016-03-01 04:51 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. By pushing this Theresa May is ignoring three (!) parliamentary committees.
  
  --
  Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
Snoopyr just choked on his Peanuts by BillBrains · 2016-03-01 04:47 · Score: 0

Charlie Brown ain't gonna be happy with this big brother shite.
Go watch reality TV, nothing to see here! by Locke2005 · 2016-03-01 04:51 · Score: 1

There's absolutely no way this power could possibly be abused, say by politicians looking to dig up dirt on their opponents during elections...

--
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
1. Re:Go watch reality TV, nothing to see here! by Maritz · 2016-03-01 05:23 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps I'm cynical, but I suspect that has been the point all along. Terrorism and children being mere convenient boogeymen for 'justification' of sorts.
  
  --
  I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Can't wait for June by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 04:52 · Score: 0

They can crawl into the US's ass where they belong.
God save the Queen by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 04:54 · Score: 0

From David Cameron, He'd probably sell her too if he could, just like all the bits of the NHS / school system he can chop off, and our rights.
I still don't get this. by wcrowe · 2016-03-01 04:55 · Score: 1

Once again I have to ask, What is going on in the UK? Or should we start calling it "Airstrip One"?

--
Proverbs 21:19
1. Re:I still don't get this. by JustNiz · 2016-03-01 05:01 · Score: 1
  
  That was my first thought too... but then I thought about it.
  What if what she's actually trying to do is to get out in the open and put legal limits on what all countries/governments are already subversively doing anyway?
2. Re:I still don't get this. by L4m3rthanyou · 2016-03-01 06:24 · Score: 1
  
  No, if only for the simple fact that the existing "legal limits" clearly aren't stopping them, if that is the case. More legal limits won't help matters.
  Indeed, though, the thought itself is scary- whether the goons are trying to obtain greater powers of surveillance, or just trying to legitimize what they are already doing...
  
  --
  One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces.
3. Re:I still don't get this. by gweihir · 2016-03-01 11:57 · Score: 1
  
  What is going on is what Orwell predicted a long time ago. And, of course, Orwell describes the end-state, not the way there. But the surveillance camera in every living room, for example, sounds eerily accurate as do the "hate" sessions and the continuing economic degradation. Sure, there is the legend that 1984 is really about the Soviet Union, but I do not buy that (even if he said it himself and even if some things are clearly copied from there). I think he knew the mind-set of a particular faction of his fellow citizens very well and 1984 is a long-term prediction for the UK.
  
  --
  Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Problems in the UK? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 04:58 · Score: 0

V - for Vendetta... almost as prophetic as 1984, but with a prettier heroine!
November 5th is in 'Back To The Future'.....
Independently developed encryption, unbreakable - needed.
Agnostic and non-governmental mathematicians - needed.
Basement dwellers need not apply...
1. Re:Problems in the UK? by AHuxley · 2016-03-01 11:14 · Score: 1
  
  The UK has been reading letters and mail for many generations. Thats why the US has that "persons, houses, papers, and effects" protection.
  Defence of the Realm Act 1914 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... really started to dig deeper into mail and communications on a national scale with collect it all, read it all funding and staffing levels.
  HOW the home office warrant was also used a lot. A network of Security Liaison Officers, Defence security officers got used to keep track of all political any other emerging issues. The commercial Intelsat phone network was split to ensure every phone call could be obtained. Domestic calls got the same bulk collection.
  Every domestic call and all phone calls in and out of Ireland got the same level of interest. The US Irish connections needed a lot of work to block US support for Ireland.
  The constant flow of US mil grade supplies to Ireland had to be and was stopped in the 1980's. As Ireland entered a new relationship, the UK had to keep some very powerful laws in place to ensure large numbers of people with skill sets could watched.
  Later technology surrounding computer entry and phone voice prints got a vast domestic upgrade in both funding and staff. The UK was following the US down the collect it all domestic use of signals intelligence in open courts. eg TEMPORA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
  The result in 2016 is the now public announcement that domestic signals collect it all is policy, with the ability to use all the results in courts.
  Every person of interest is now expected to use a phone, carry a powered cell phone everywhere, own a networked computer at home and thats all the new bespoke contractor systems can collect from.
  A big change from the real experts that could follow anyone around Ireland and the UK and then turn actual informants. The real covert, clandestine side has been defunded for the big, simple US style instant "digital" election cycle security wins in open court.
  The idea that anyone interesting will not use any electronic devices has not seemed to have been factored in any way :) A new generation of security officials just expects the world to be as connected as they are and stay connected 24/7 :)
  
  --
  Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Yes you should by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 05:02 · Score: 1

The politicians act on lobbying from the security services, who have American funding, from the NSA without the consent or knowledge of the American people either
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/01/nsa-paid-gchq-spying-edward-snowden
bought and sold by treasonous toads.
it's time to nuke the UK by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 12:47 · Score: 0

kill the cancer of fascism before it spreads.
1. Re:it's time to nuke the UK by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-01 17:43 · Score: 0
  
  kill the cancer of fascism before it spreads.
  Sure, punish the puppets, not the puppetmaster..
Spooks and the Home Office by UpnAtom · 2016-03-01 17:23 · Score: 1

It's hard to tell why exactly this has happened under successive governments, particularly as this one clawed back some of the totalitarianism of the last one.
We know that Theresa May's is advised by Stasi spook, Charles Farr, as well as his fiance. Farr wrote this legislation about 8 years ago. This is his 5th attempt to get it passed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...
I also know that MI5 are strongly anti-privacy, through somebody who did contract work for them.